and now we're back this week two committees under bobby scott's leadership will be mocking up hr3 under chairman frank pollone will be markup hr3 and the ways and means skmcommittee chairman neal will be marking it up next week. and we're going down the path of passing legislation that will be transformative in the lives of the american people for what it will save them, what it will save the taxpayers as well. it might be interesting do you know in the course of this past week or so, the congressional budget office reported that hr 3 will save taxpayers $345 billion on the medicaid part d piece alone and that it will negotiations and medicare inflation rebates will save

households $158 billion and private businesses $48 billion from between 2020 and 2029. so we're very, very proud of the savings that it will be for people in their individual lives for businesses and for the taxpayer. it's how we spend that money. some of it will be used for investing and for the benefit of research at the national institute of health and some will be as i said for more benefits, whether it's dental, visual, hearing whatever with medicare. i mentioned that but there are other considerations as well. the committees as they markup the bill will make those proposals. the amendment process on the floor will take us to another point and whether there are other ways we may want to invest some of that money for the benefit of america's working families and for innovation and research.

earlier today some of you were with us when we had the announcement of chairman bobby scott's college affordability act legislation to make higher education more affordable, expanding opportunity, improving access to quality education. this week as all through the break and continuing this week we've been working on the u.s.-mexico-canada trade agreement. we hope to be on a path to yes. we're still waiting on assurances about enforceability in it because you can have all the good provisions in the world, but if you can't enforce them, you're just having a conversation. so there are some of the concerns we have about the u.s.-china relationship, are they really going to honor any commitment that they make? buying foreign products is good but what about the other considerations that hurt america's manufacture base and the rest? so we will see what that is. it seems to me it was a small bill.

in terms of guns as i said to you earlier, this was a bullet. i was in florida -- i was all over the country but when i was in florida i received this from frederica wilson, my colleague. the bracelets are made with bullets and the color orange which is the color of gun violence protection. i told the president we're not going away until we get this background check bill passed. so legislate, investigate, mr. schiff, mr. chairman will be here shortly and report on that. i want to say how proud i am of him and the members of the intelligence committee for being here over the break for the valuable legislation investigations that they have done, and again you'll hear from him momentarily. in terms of litigation we have been very successful and of course last friday we won five

decisions in our favor in terms of congress' authority under the constitution. and today another decision came down in our favor in relationship to emoluments. you probably had that information on your phones. but, again, another recognition that our founders had very deep suspicion about foreigners interfering in our government. and, again, in our elections. and the a emoluments clause is t there for that purpose. so the fact we'd be here in an inquiry of a president asking a foreign government to help a president and his re-election by granting or withholding in the timing of military assistance that had been vote said on by the congress is just -- has so

many violations in it. it undermines our national security. we were sending that military assistance, and because of ukraine needing that visa vi russia, all roads seem to lead to putin with the president, though. is then when we talk about undermining the integrity of our elections, that's wrong. and when you're talking about violating the president's oath of office to protect, defend, and preserve the constitution of the united states to the pest of his ability, that's the presidential -- to the best of his ability. well, go with that. in any event the rulings were that we won last week three of them were against the president's public hate charge rule from taking effect. a ruling against the president's sham national emergency declaration to build his

wasteful border wall, and a ruling that reaffirms congress' authority and responsibility to conduct oversight and consider legislation on behalf of the american people. and the court ruled the following in that case. contrary to the president's arguments the committee possesses authority under both the house rules and the constitution to issue the subpoena and majors must comply. one today in terms of the emoluments, but that just happened. we just had a meeting with our caucus to be brought up-to-date on where we are on our legislative agenda. as i mentioned we're legislating, we're litigating, we're investigating and leading that for us is our very distinguished chair of the intelligence committee, mr. schiff who's just completed

voting and will join us here. unless you be any questions about our legislative agenda. we spoke about some sanctions bills and also about having legislation, a joint resolution, house, senate, bipartisan to oppose the president's decision about syria. hopefully we will take some of that up this week and mr. elliot engel is leading the way for us under the foreign affairs committee. i'm hopeful -- i think senator graham kind of fell back a little bit. i don't know, his language got a little weaker, i don't know what happened with the house.

but hopefully he's where he was in the conversation that we would have legislation with strong sanctions in it against turkey. the president gave the green light to turkey to go in and commit this humanitarian disaster under the kurds making us an untrustworthy ally and then had a wet noodle for his sanctions, which just were not up to the task. so that's where we are. excuse me, mr. chair? >> thank you, madam speaker. wanted to give cow a brief update on the investigation. in the last couple of weeks i think we've made dramatic progress in answering some of the questions surrounding that july tell phone call between president trump and president zelensky in which the president of the united states sought to coerce a vulnerable ally into conducting what can best be

described as sham investigations involving his opponent and involving a debunked conspiracy theory about the 2016 election. we have learned that call was not in isolation. there was a great deal of preparatory work that was done before the call. there was a lot of follow-up work done after the call. and we have learned much of this thanks to the courageous testimony of state department officials who have been put in an impossible situation by the administration and that is urged not to comply with the law, urged not to comply with a lawful subpoena by the u.s. congress. and they are doing their duty, and people should make no mistake about that. they're doing exactly what they're required to do. and i think showing enormous courage. and i think we owe a great debt of gratitude to public servants like ambassador yovanovitch who

had to endure so many false smears on her character and has continued to show the courage to come forward and speak to our committees. and we are also learning a great deal on the issue of conditionality, that is the effort to condition a white house meeting that was desperately sought by the ukraine president in order to get a commitment from that president to do these political investigations on behalf of the president of the united states. so we're learning a lot about the conditionality of that meeting. and i want to underscore just how important that meeting was for ukraine. it is i think at the very top ask of most countries to have a meeting with the president of the united states, but this is most particularly true for a country that has been invaded by its neighbor, russia. that is in the midst of still a very hot conflict that is dependent on us economically,

drip diplomatically, militarily to show the president still has a good relationship. so that gave leverage for trump to coerce leverage to the president of ukraine. at the very time the state department is trying to urge ukraine to follow the rule of law, you have the president of the united states urging that president to engage in political investigations. you could not have a message more contradictory to that of the state department than that what we saw in that call. >> okay, that is the scene there on capitol hill. we've been listening in. we'll continue to keep on eye. that's adam schiff there, the chairman of the house intelligence committee. he's providing an update. obviously more hearings today, closed door hearings today involving that committee. it's a ukraine investigation before schiff. you heard from the speaker of the house nancy pelosi, she said democrats in her words legislating, investigating and

litigating. so an update there, this after a democratic caucus meeting that preceded that press conference that is now ongoing on capitol hill. again, we'll keep an eye on it if any other news develops from it. good evening, though for now. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. speaking of that intelligence committee it paints a picture of alarm inside the trump administration as the president's emissaries pursued what is being called a shadow foreign policy. nbc news reports that, quote, former national security advisor john bolton was so disturbed by the efforts to get the ukrainians to investigate president trump's political opponents that he called it a drug deal. that is according to a person in the room yesterday for fiona hill's testimony. the president's former top advisor on russia and europe who was deposed behind closed doors. perhaps more alarming nbc news reports hill told lawmakers she considered what was happening to be a clear counter intelligence risk to the united states.

hill was among four witnesses so far to shed light on rudy giuliani's efforts on behalf of the president to pressure ukraine to launch investigations that would benefit trump politically. that is something hill called a shadow policy, she said, because it skirted protocols. "the new york times" also reports that bolton didn't just liken that effort to an illicit drug deal but also described giuliani as a hand grenade that was going to blow everyone up. bolton was so concerned last jal july he told hill to notify the chief security -- meanwhile lawmakers today deposed george kent. he defied orders from the state

department which urged him not to testify. kent also sounded the alarm that trump's allies were embracing internal e-mails turned over to congress showed kent pushed back against those allegations which he referred to as, quote, a fake news driven smear out of ukraine and complete poppycock among other things. meanwhile upon returning from their recess the house democratic caucus met tonight we were just telling you this about their next steps in the un folding impeachment inquiry and i'm now joined by congress eric swalwell from california, peter baker, and elise jordan, a former bush administration aid in the white house and the state department. thanks to all of you for joining with us. congressman, let me just start with you because we began this hour with that press conference. the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, the chairman adam schiff looking into these reportings here involving ukraine. there was some speculation this

afternoon this press conference might be called to announce democrats might be deciding to hold a vote on the house floor to formally announce an impeachment inquiry. republicans, the white house certainly have been saying there needs to be in their view an official vote on the house floor for that. i take it based on what we're not hearing in those first ten or so minutes, that is not the plan. there is not going to be at least for now a vote to authorize an inquiry, is that correct? >> good evening, steve. we believe we are in a formal impeachment inquiry. and in the history of investigations no investigator has ever allowed a suspect to dictate the terms and direction and time line of an investigation. we're not going to let donald trump do that. so we're going to continue to proceed. in the last three weeks we've heard from a number of witnesses. the time line is becoming clearer and who was in the shadow steam loop and outside the loop is also coming into focus. >> the reporting from politico

just on this idea to open a house vote inquiry was reaching out to you about this, the possibility in this reporting here that democrats would reassess this in the future. is it possible there still might be a vote? >> i don't want to speak for the speaker. i can just tell you we are doing an impeachment investigation. hearing from witnesses, subpoenaing documents. we have the crime of extortion, bribery, soliciting cam pape help from a foreign gump, a confession from the president and a cover-up. we are legislating on prescription drugs and health care and guns, we're investigatingping on this inquiry and we're going to the courts on a number of issues of lawlessness this administration has engaged in. >> let's get into some of these hearings and something that has come to light from it. peter baker, you had this testimony behind closed doors from fiona hill yesterday and your reporting brings directly

into the mix the name john bolton. explain that connection. >> of course john bolton had served as the national security advisor until last month. he left in a rift with president trump on a number of issues including afghanistan, russia, north korea, iran. but we learned from fiona hill's testimony he was quite agitated about rudy giuliani's outside the system pressure campaign on ukraine, that giuliani was not a government official and yet he was meeting with ukrainian officials and playing a role in the discussion about whether or not the president of the united states would meet with the president of ukraine, what conditions there might be, whether or not ukraine would conduct investigations that would be politically beneficial to the president. and john bolton had this meeting on july 10th along with a couple of officials who were visiting. he told fiona hill to go follow the group when they went down to the war room of the white house to continue the discussion.

and when she came back up and related what was going on, he told her to go to the white house lawyer to report it because he wasn't going to be part of any drug deal as he stated. >> given, congressman, john bolton's name is he someone your committee plans to call when would you like to hear from him? >> i'll leave that to the chairman but he was a national security advisor when all this went down. we're going to try to have a fair process, hear from relevant witnesses, not drag this out too much. when you have a suspect who's confess said to the act you don't have to collin a thousand witnesses. so we're going to try and give the president a fair process but not go endlessly on this. if they're not going to cooperate we'll put that in a bucket of obstruction of congress as an article of impeachment to consider. >> you heard today your committee heard from george kent. i want to read this to you. this is cnn, your colleague i

should say jerry conally has just told cnn this, that george kent testifying before this committee today told lawmakers that he was told by his supervisor to lay low after he raised complaints about rudy giuliani's efforts in ukraine undermining u.s. foreign policy. is that what you heard? >> i'm not going to characterize testimony until we are done. but what i will say is nothing has contradicted what the underlying act is, what the president has confessed to and the fact there is an active cover-up right now as we speak by the administration to prevent us from understanding what the shakedown scheme exactly is. >> elise, the fact of george kent's testimony today, told pie the state department don't show up, he showed up. sondland last week was saying he wasn't going to cooperate. now he says he is.

we see you von vch. >> i want point out we have yet another person coming tomorrow i'm identity interested to hear what he has to say, the former ambassador to brazil and a senior foreign service officer and counselor to mike pompeo who recently resigned. so every day we are getting more information that backs up the original whistle-blower complaint. i think we're at about three weeks now since that. it feels like a lifetime, put i think it's probably about three weeks. and with each testimony and more individuals coming forward, it further reinforces and adds more disturbing details to the original complaint, and the reason that donald trump is in so much trouble right now. >> and look ahead as well to thursday and gordon sondland

appearing your reporting in fiona hill's testimony yesterday she had a run in with him. >> yeah, it's really interesting. this guy was a donor to trump's inauguration. he had not been a trump supporter during the republican primary but came around, hot hotelier from out west but he inserted himself in policy that goes beyond the european union. ukraine's not a member of the european union and yet he was inserting himself into that. he had a confrontation with fiona at one point. he says i'm in charge of ukraine policy and she recalled that sounded a lot like al hague after the reagan assassination attempt and he was acting he

said in any way to take charge in the way of ucrepe policy even though there had been career staff and then later bill taylor in kiev people like fiona hill basically bypassed and so when we see gordon sondland go in on thursday we won't actually get to see it from the outside but obviously the people who do the questioning will have a lot of questions why he did that and what he talked to the president about that. >> i mentioned the press conference still ongoing there. nancy pelosi the house speaker did just say as that press conference wrapping up, she did say before leaving there will not be a house vote on authorizing inimpeachment inquiry. she said a few weeks ago. democrats are now on impeachment victory, she just said no vote. congressman eric swalwell thank you for joining us, peter baker, elise jordan thank you for rolling with us during this

breaking news. and coming up the rudy giuliani hand dpru nade and the testimony in the impeachment inquiry. fiona hill quoted john bolton warning giuliani would figuratively speaking blow everyone up and giuliani saying he'll not comply with any subpoenas. plus the iowa caucus less than four months away. a lot at stake in the democratic presidential debate. we're going to head out to the sight of those festivities. we're going to hear from both the biden and sanders big camps. we've got much more to get to. stay with us. g camps. we've got much more to get to. stay with us we're oscar mayer deli fresh and you may know us from...

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump's attorney rudy giuliani who john bolton reportedly called a hand grenade who's going to blow everybody up is in the cross hairs of federal prosecutor for his dealings with ukraine. tonight "the wall street journal" reports that federal prosecutors in manhattan have subpoenaed former texas

republican congressman pete sessions in their investigation into giuliani. the subpoena, quote, seeks documents related to mr. giuliani's business dealings with ukraine and his involvement and efforts to oust the u.s. ambassador in kive as well as any interactions between mr. sessions, mr. giuliani and four of mr. giuliani's associates who were indicted last week on campaign finance and conspiracy counts. mr. giuliani is the primary focus of the pina. the indictment of two of giuliani's associates last week alleged that they engaged in a lobbying effort to get sessions assistance in ousting the former ambassador marie yovanovitch. segs says he is cooperating with prosecutors. meanwhile giuliani refusing to comply with a congressional subpoena. i'm joined now by democratic congressman mike quigley ofelst. congressman, thank you for joining us. rudy giuliani says not going to cooperate with any subpoenas

from your committee or from the house of representatives that come his way. what do you do next? >> look, it's no surprise the white house hasn't cooperated with any aspect of this investigation for over three years. what we do is we move forward. tomorrow will be another deposition and another the next day. the committee will make a decision who to bring forward, who subpoena. if they don't respond we'll take it on a case by case basis and the decision to go to court. in the end i do believe the courts will recognize not just on this subpoena but all the others the urgency of this and the national security implications and will act accordingly and give congress its constitutional right of oversight. >> when you look how central giuliani is including the reporting out there and testimony from fiona hill, how important is it for you to have access to him either through

documents or a personal appearance? >> look, on one hand i think there's an extraordinary case the president committed high crimes and misdemeanors on the public record. we have the texts. we have the transcript. we have the whistle-blower's complaint. but any other additional evidence will be helpful. rudy compinbines it all, though. you're right, first of all it's shadow government and bad foreign policy. a man with little or no expertise, no security clearance working in the shadows and moving forward with national policy. what role is he playing? a personal attorney for the president operating under the state department? this leads to extraordinary mistakes, one that we're witnessing in plain view. >> again, this new reporting tonight from "the wall street journal" about federal prosecutors issuing a subpoena to our former colleague pete sessions but saying the focus of that subpoena is giuliani. is the attention from federal

prosecutors that reportedly is now there when it comes to giuliani, is that going to complicate your work at all? >> look, we've dealt with this from day one. obviously there were a number of indictments through people closest to president trump were indicted and went to jail. so our goal is not to interfere with lawful prosecutions but make sure they aren't impaired. so we've worked well with the mueller investigation and prosecutors before. it'll be our intention to do so as we go forward. >> and finally again the house speaker announcing just a few minutes ago there will be no vote on the house floor to formally open an impeachment inquiry. republicans have been saying some this is something they think you should do. i think mike pence his lawyer today said one of the reasons for not complying is that you haven't had this vote. do you think there is a case for not having the vote? >> the white house has not

cooperated and they use any excuse in front of them. i believe if the house voted on this they still wouldn't comply and i believe they're being less than honest with the american public. obviously it's not in the constitution, in the law. i'll leave it up to leadership and the house to decide what's best, but the bottom line we're going forward with this investigation regardless of their actions and their attempts to obstruct us. >> congressman mike quigley, thank you for joining us. >> any time. thank you. all right, and till ahead republican senator rand paul is going to join me. we're going to get his thoughts on shadow diplomacy in ukraine. you're watching "hardball." shae you're watching "hardball. make fitness routine with pure protein.

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welcome back to "hardball." during the 2016 campaign republican senator rand paul and trump were bitter adversaries. today, though, they had become allies amid the bipartisan concern about president trump's troop withdrawal in syria. senator paul is also making, quote, the case against socialch. that is the title of his new book. it is out today. and senator rand paul of kentucky joins me now. thank you for joining us. appreciate it. >> yeah, thanks for having me. >> let's start on your pook here. and this is interesting. you're making the case against socialism. some interesting polling on this subject out in just a couple of months 18 to 34-year-olds, the

youngest voters out there found that 61% of millennial democrats quote express favorable views towards socialism. 32 ers' independent millennials say the same 25%. and 1 out of four republican millennials share the same view. are you surprised those numbers are so high and why are they that high? >> alarm is an even better word. we worry about socialism from my perspective. you know, what happened in the last century. problem the number one association of genocide and famine came from socialism. so from our perspective we're quite worried about it. the only consolation we have there's some additional polling that asks what do you think socialism is. so 50, 6% of these young kids may have a favorable perception of it, but only about 15% of them will tell you the state ownership of the means of production which is the traditional meaning of

socialism. maybe there's some confusion and it will get worked out over time. we wanted to explain the association between socialicism and violence and talk about the modern examples people put forward and talk about, you know, whether or not that's the kind of socialism we're going to try also. >> i mentioned you may the president's most vocal defender when it comes to this decision on syria. i wanted to show this to you. yesterday "the new york times" reported the american commandoes working with kurdish forces one army officer when discussing the kurds told "the new york times" this. he said they trusted us and we broke that trust. the withdrawal is a stain on the american conscience. i'm curious, i want to ask you about it from that standpoint because i know you have a broader disagreement with what the united states policy has been in syria and in the middle east, but specifically when it came to the idea of protecting the kurds who had fought with the united states and stamping

out isis, was there something owed that was more than what they got here? >> what you mentioned was the soldiers wer spective, one of our soldiers. and i think when you ask our soldiers they're kind of like our country, split. but there have been a lot of polls showing 50% of or veterans believe the iraq war was a mistake. in fact i think president obama was elected because he believed it was a mistake and voted against it and hillary clinton voted for it. but now the left i think in their hatred for trump can't see that getting out of a war was a good thing. i think the syrian war is more of a quagmire and more messy than even the iraq war was, so i wish he had a more right-left coalition coming together once again to say our intercensions in the middle east have backfired. yes, i think we should discuss it in congress, decide whether it's in our national interest. but i don't see a national interest there. i see a huge mess with a lot of

people fighting on both sides and none of them necessarily that admiral. >> the subject i think everybody is talking about these days and that's impeachment inquiry into president trump involving that phone call and the policy in ukraine more broadly. the basic question here i've seen you ask before and i don't know if i've seen a clear answer from you so i'll ask you again. do you think it's proper or appropriate for a president of the united states to be talking to a foreign leader about investigating his political opponent? >> you know, we have been asked that question, you're right, several times. i think it's interesting when you look at both sides, republican or democrat the only thing consistent about this whole debate is that both sides have threatened ukraine's aid or at least accused of threatening their aid. menendez and two other senators sent a letter saying if you don't keep investigating trump we might cut off your aid and

senator murphy was there saying if you do vote gent hunter biden we may threaten your aid. it sounds like he's joining good company and it's been bipartisan. if you ask me about the aid, i say forget about it. look, we're borrowing the money from china. we can't take care of our own needs. why in the world would we be r borrowing money from china to send it kpar anywhere on the pl? >> there was a conservative comment who said when the senators were writing that letter they were asking ukraine to cooperate with a united states investigation, the mueller investigation as opposed to asking you crane to launch its own investigation. but, again, i'm just curious. the president of the united states -- but the president of the united states, we can talk about all the other things, but the president of the united states, is it right for the

president of the united states to -- >> in order to answer that question we have to ask the same question to the democrats. so the democrats said let's continue this mueller investigation. do you think anybody in this country thinks that was politically motivated and there was something going on partisan is most people in my party think it was a partisan thing, the whole going after trump -- >> but still -- >> it was elevated and begun really by the intelligence community under president obama. many of these people have come out and now are fierce haters of the president. clanne clapper, comey, brennen. so they've shown they're real partisans. so when we see democrat senators sending a letter to ukraine saying you've got to continue to investigate trump, i think it's exactly the same. i think it's exactly the same thing you're accusing the president of. so let it fall where it may. but i think part of when we try to be objective is we should

treat both sides the same. >> in the abstract, though, is it okay? do you want to live in a country where the president of the united states feels it's perfectly fine to call up a foreign leader and talk about investigating his or her, could be a democratic president in the future, could be a president sworn in two years calling up and saying hey would you take a look at this? is that appropriate? >> as you know i've been opposed to sending aid we don't have. but should it be contingent on behavior, yes it should. should we ask for them to try to eliminate or investigate corruption, sure. that's making aid contingent on behavior. in fact, i don't think we do enough of contingencies to say aid should be based on behavior. the same with arms. i've opposed selling arms to saudi arabia and turkey because if they're not going to act like

true allies they shouldn't get our arms. >> appreciate it. next, the moment of truth from many democratic candidates. tonight we're going to go live out there for a preview. you're watching "hardball." e fo. you're watching "hardball. ights, ights, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. still fresh... ♪ unstopables in-wash scent booster ♪ ♪ downy unstopables is eh, not enough fiber.al? chocolate would be good.

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- ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program call or visit i think people are overthinking how could that not have crossed your mind and felt a bit in your gut maybe this is not a good idea to go and sit on the board of this ukrainian company -- >> i said to you in retrospect. >> but at the time you never thought this might not look right. >> you know what, i'm a human and did i make a mistake maybe in the grand scheme of things yeah, but did i make a mistake based on some unethical lapse, absolutely not. >> that was former vice president joe biden's son hunter giving his first interview since he and his father came under

attack from the president of his allies. just a few minutes from now biden will be at the strf the stage. senator elizabeth warren is now leading by a small margin pie some recent national polls. joining me now is simone sanders, a senior advisor. simone, thank you for joining us. let me ask you about the interview we just played there. that clip of hunter biden earlier today. what do you say to someone who looks at this situation and says, look, trump's going too far, trump's going way too far with what he's saying but a situation where you have a vice president of the united states when joe biden was vice president who's deputized to do ukraine policy, the point man on ukraine and then you've got his son getting a cushy job on a ukrainian energy board, that looks like the kind of swampiness that drives people crazy. what do you say to people who say that is a problem? >> well, thanks for having me,

steve. what we'll say frankly hunter biden didn't do anything wrong. and msnbc, nbc and all other credible media outlets said there's no there there, and lies coming from donald trump, his administration and his campaign not to mention rudy giuliani. what we'll also say is this the obama' biden administration had extremely high ethical standards. and in that administration joe biden, yes, was deputized to go out there and speak on behalf of the entire western world and the united states government as it related to ukraine. and he did his job, and he did his job honorably. and it was -- i mean, look, the united states government, the imf, the eu, reformers in ukraine, everyone wanted this prosecutor out. and in a biden white house unlike a donald trump's white

house vice president biden's chirp will not have offices in the west wing. his children will not sit in on cabinet meetings as though they're high ranking government officials and won't have foreign business dealings. >> there's a report last week that biden had a fund-raiser told some folks he needed to be more aggressive in his words and debate tonight, he was having some difficulties knowing when to counter attack. are we going to see a different presentation from him tonight? >> i think vice president biden also said at that fund-raiser which is open to the press he's a big boy and he knows what he has to do on that debate stage. i think what you'll see vice president biden do is speak on health care and also about the foreign policy crisis currently befalling us. we'll talk about syria, hopefully. also talk about ukraine, talk about the abuse of power. uniquely, steve, vice president biden has articulated that his case, very poignantly from the beginning of his campaign, and

that donald trump is a threat, he is abusing his power and we have to restore the soul of this nation. and that's what you can expect to hear from him tonight. there'll be 12 people on that debate stage so everyone won't get as much time but vice president biden is prepared to go out there and make his case. >> you mentioned this case, he's been running on this idea he's uniquely suited to defeat donald trump. i think his word is the country can't survive four more years of trump so he's positioning himself as an answer to that. at the same time yesterday we were shown a brand new poll, quinnipiac, that put elizabeth warren a couple of points ahead. i know there have been polls all over the place but i think clearly the totality of the polls it's a pretty close rise. what do you make of the success she's had in the last few months? >> steve, we've always said this is going to be a fight. but from the beginning we have said this will be a fight and we think this nominating process

will go well into super tuesday and perhaps beyond. so we're ready. polls are going to go up and down. but what is undeniable is what we're feeling and seeing on the ground from folks. and look, people -- democratic voters across the board are united in the fact they would like to beat donald trump. and they know that on day one they're going to need the next president who we believe will be a democrat -- who i believe will be joe biden. the next president will have to be able to walk into the oval office on day one and get things done. there's stuff we have to do in terms of foreign policy. things we have to do on health care. and vice president biden is uniquely situated to do that. you need a coalition to win this process and beat donald trump in a general election and we are the best process to build that coalition. >> thank you for taking a few minutes. >> thank you so much. and up next how bernie sanders is getting ready for tonight's debate, this his first public event since his heart attack. you're watching "hardball." sint attack you're watching "hardball.

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welcome back to "hardball." vermont senator bernie sanders tonight is going to be his first public event since he suffered a heart attack two week said ago. thank you for joining us a few minutes before. and look, this is his first major public event since he had a heart attack. is there extra pressure tonight

to just reassure voters that the oldest candidate in the field is up to this? >> well, yeah, he's been doing interviews, you know, up until this moment letting the american people know he's doing just fine. and the senator has such integrity that if he could not be doing this, he would not be doing it. but he is feeling fine, getting stronger every single day. and so people will see the senator bernard sanders we have some come to know and love on that stage tonight. >> we were talking to somebody from the biden campaign earlier asking them about the rise of elizabeth warren in the polls. what about from bernie sanders standpoint? they are a lot of folks woo say very similar messages, very similar perhaps coalitions in some ways. i know they're not entirely the same. but how concerned are you about the rise of elizabeth warren? >> i mean, they're not the same, steve. and you know the senator is running against or i should say the other candidates are really

running against him. he's the only candidate on that stage to have the courage to stand up in 2016 and run against a corrupt system. and he's the only candidate consistently from 2016 to this very point been polling as the person to be able to beat president donald trump. it's not just about one senator on that stage but all the other candidates on that stage frankly, steve, the platform which democrats are running on give or take, they're running on the gospel according to senator bernard sanders. >> i did say he was asked bernie sanders the other day in an interview with abc, he was asked about distinguishing himself from elizabeth warren given again the messages being similar. one thing he said i'm going to get the words exactly right here. i think as you know she's said she is a capitalist through her bones. i'm not. explain that distinction he's trying to draw there.

>> well, steve, you know the senator believes taking on this corrupt system that has left far too many millions of americans behind. he's talking about a system that allo allows corporations and the ultra wealthy in this nation, and being unabashedly, unflinchingly going against a system that does not respond to the needs of the 99 or rather only responds to the needs of the 1 pes, and he will nautica pitulate on that, steve. when we talk about the polls the less they rise the less they fall. but in terms of the 3.3 million donations he has received, so we want to measure and in terms of a revolution you know he really believes in building a true revolution he has been building since his last run in 2016, so that people power is real, and that is the power that is going to catapult senator sanders

through this primary into the general election. >> when i saw that interfrom that interview i did wonder is the message there if you think of yourself as a capitalist, if you believe in capitalism, sanders campaign is not for you? >> steve, the message is the same in many ways the reverend dr. martin luther king, jr. gave, what does it mean for the government to respond to the needs of the people? so he was quoting what senator warren said about herself. but ultimately his run is about creating a system that responds to the majority of the people in this nation and not just to the wealthy interests. that is what he's running for the people. >> nina turner with the sanders campaign. thank you for taking a few minutes. appreciate that. and stay with msnbc tonight for our expert post-debate analysis of the fourth democratic debate with brian williams, nicolle wallace, chris hayes, joy reid. that is "hardball" for now.

and "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i think when all is said and done we will find that rudy giuliani once the greatest mayor of this country is nothing more than a small town crook. >> the moon running trump's shadow foreign policy took a half a million from foreign interests. >> i stand behind rudy giuliani, absolutely. >> tonight new trouble for rudy giuliani as yet more officials head to the hill to testify. >> mr. kent, did anyone try to block frau yum speaking? >> then as new testimony brings trump's chief of staff into the scandal what did john bolton know? >> john wasn't in line when what we were doing. >> former national security advisor susan rice joins me to talk impeachment, trump and the situation in syria. >> this is bat ple[ bleep ] cra. >> and house democrats return with a formal impeachment