this hour of msnbc live. i'll be back later today at 2:00 p.m. eastern. time now for "up with david gura" and our substitute host today. he's nice and warm in the studio. >> this is "up," i'm jonathan in for david gura. nbc news now reporting rudy giuliani attempted to secure a visa from the state department for the ousted former state leader. and support for president trump in his party starting to wane. mitch mcconnell now saying an impeachment inquiry is

inevitable. >> echos of 2016. bernie sanders plans to reignite his campaign with a rally in new york. his former opponent still in the spotlight saming russia is grouping contender gabbard. with us, senior correspondent for business insider, former spokesperson poor the treasury department and former federal prosecutor and now msnbc legal analyst. and my washington post colleague, the washington post white house reporter. this morning, a month into the impeachment inquiry, the trouble keeps piling up. republican senate leader mitch

mcconnell now sees impeachment inquiry as all but inevitable. looking at rudy giuliani's role in trying to dig up dirt on joe biden. he tried to obtain a visa for a ukrainian man who promised to give up that dirt. this way in the washington post, a growing body of evidence makes it clear it was trump himself who repeatedly pushed his government enlisting and ensharing a growing number of officials. several more officials will be questioned in the days to come. >> the white house would like nothing more than to be able to get their stories straight by hearing what these witnesses

have to say. >> speaker pelosi has finally crumbled and allowed her left wing impeachment process. >> trump is the most corrupt president in the history of this country. >> donald trump needs to be held accountable. >> mr. president, release your tax returns or shut up. >> this is an insane asylum and it is clear the inmates are running it. >> i have news for everybody, get over it. there is going to be political influence in foreign policy. >> who is the whistleblower? that crazy nancy, she is crazy. >> i pray for the president all the time. now we have to pray for his health. this is a very serious melt down. >> i have just got to throw it out to the table. ann, i'll start with you, in that entire mashup we just watched.

the thing that jumped out at me is acting chief of staff mick mulvaney sayings that just the way it is. what was the reaction inside the white house to what mulvaney said? >> there was a couple of reactions. first of all in the briefing room when reporters looked at one another, like did he just say that? elsewhere, there was a deep breath taken. let's put it that way and a recognition over the next couple of hours that mulvaney would have to say something to walk that back. what he said was in direct contradiction to what the president has been saying for weeks now, which is no quid pro quo. certainly the president liked the first part of mulvaney's presentation when he talked

about the trump doral resort and that he likes nothing better than a good television fight and he was bringing it. many felt he got a little carried away and certainly should not have said the get over it line. >> right. glen, it seems with this administration, they flat out say, as mick mulvaney did. yeah, we did it and then they try to walk it back like we didn't just hear what you said. will that tactic work? >> it was a rare moment of can door. i'm going to paraphrase, when he said, of course there is quid pro quo. get over it.

trump's life is quid pro quo. when he gets to quid, he doesn't always get to the quo. when i watch the mulvaney train wreck, i was reminded of what trump actually said to president zelensky. mulvaney was all about, well, if there was a deal, it was to look back at the 2016 election, which was corrupt. when we look at the actual summary. not transcript but summary of the call that somehow got pulled out of the double secret probation server. starting on page three where president zelensky is basically begging for help. we need to protect our people from unlawful russian aggression. president trump says that famous line, i would like you to do us a favor though.

mulvaney would like us to believe that that was all about looking back to 2016, what does president trump go on to say? the other thing, there is a lot of talk about biden's son. that biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that. whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great because biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. if you can look into it, it sounds horrible to me. there's the quote. all about biden. yes, mulvaney is right. get over it. this is what trump does. he unlawfully seeks foreign interference to help him. that's a crime, it is wrong and it is impeachable. >> you know what shocks me the most having been at the national security council. the argument that mulvaney makes, get over it. it is not exactly how it works

but it seems normal to them. of course the president and his or her team are going to get the foreign policy goal but rely on security professionals and carry that out and advise them on this is what works and this doesn't work. presidents change along the way. there is a reason you have the staff of the state department which has been gutted. the argument he even makes is ridiculous and callous. on the question of ukraine specifically, the thing that struck me the most is that they were very willing to release this transcript. means they genuinely don't think they did anything wrong. >> i don't know if that is necessary true. i think they are priming the american people to get used to the treatment. this is a author artian

treatment. look what happened in turkey. we have this deal. it is going to save kurdish lives. that was bull. he knew it was bull as he was saying that. it was all for show. that's what authoritarian governments do. it is about priming the american people for a level that we are not used to. this is supposed to be normal. we are not, we are not going to be okay if we accept it. >> we are going to be talking more about vice president pence and turkey and syria. bricking it back to the impeachment. mick mulvaney and what he said, at the same time on capitol hill, we have seen four

officials go up to the hill. fiona hill, george kent, michael mckinly, gordon sunlin all going to capitol hill, giving depositions. this sort of split screen nature of what is happening in washington where basically the white house is saying everything is fine here. on capitol hill with the testimonies that being given where you have people actually saying, no. things aren't okay. is the white house truly worried about what those four people and the ones who have yet to testify are saying? >> short answer is yes. the reason is that there is a degree of control the white house was able to exert early

on, which they are now losing. that is a different thing than saying there is some giant bolder rolling down the hill at them. they still feel quite confident that there will be a vote in the house and trial in the senate that he will be acquitted and that will be ultimately a political boon for them. more people around the president that feel that way than not. in the shorter term, each of these witnesses, the white house would have vastly preferred at all and unable to know exactly the full boundaries of what these witnesses are saying. that's the reason for all the complaints of unfair secrecy here for the committees. certainly members in the room report to the white house and

give them a picture of it. they don't know everything that is being said. one after another, witnesses that worked directly with the president and on these policies are contradicting his version of events. >> thank you very much for being here. speaking of investigations, a probe by the state department of hillary clinton's e-mails has found no deliberate mishandling of information by state employees according to a report that spanned three years. they found 38 current or former employees were cupable of violating security procedures but not when it came classified material. that's after a thorough review of roughly 33,000 e-mails sent to or from clinton's personal email server. still ahead, two democratic

lawmakers vesting the president will be here. congressman from vermont and from texas are coming up. first, the white house tries to claim victory over a nonexist ant crease fire in sir yria. taking metamucil every day can help. metamucil supports your daily digestive health using a special plant-based fiber called psyllium. psyllium works by forming a gel in your digestive system to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. metamucil's gelling action also helps to lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so, start feeling lighter and more energetic by taking metamucil every day.

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>> without spilling a drop of american blood. not one drop of american blood,

we've all agreed on a pause or cease-fire in the border region of syria. it was unconventional what i did. i said they'll have to fight a little while. like two kids in a lot, you got to let them fight and then pull them apart. >> president trump comparing the conflict between turkish forces in syria to a battle between children. his comments coming after mike pence delivered news of a cease fire in the region. the conflict has claimed the lives of thousands and displaced thousands. the new york times writing the cease fire agreement amounts to a mere total victory for turkey

president erdogan who paying little penalties and appears to have outmaneuvered president trump. joining me now executive editor of defense one. you just got back from the region. what were you hearing from people in the region at the conference you were attending? >> i was in qatar. they are known as a middleman. a close ally to the united states but also close to iran, they share oil fields. they've worked on a lot of counterterrorism. they are leaning more towards turkey. they understand turkey's concerns when it comes to security and the kurdish pkk that has become some what of a

terrorist group inside its borders. they've never been a fan of any of the dictators in the region including assad. c they are trying to stay as neutral as they can. >> staying neutral, from the folks you talked to and what you heard in the region, is anyone talking about or expressing concern about the united states abandoning an ally, meaning the kurds? >> it wasn't a coppic we heard specifically in qatar. it is something you hear from the united states military. the special operators asked to perform this operation over the last couple every years. in syria.

different from the war in iraq against isis. it didn't get a lot of press. at the back end of this war, you had a large contingent of special operators to build this ally, tell them the u.s. had their back. their understanding was their mission was to stay with them until some sort of geneva peace agreement with an entirely new syria with assad out of the way. americans feel betrayed by the u.s., by the president for pulling the rug out before that mission was complete. >> what you were just talking about is something you wrote about where you work, defense one. the title of the piece, silent warriors speak out against trump's turn around. i want to talk about another

piece from washington post. mitch mcconnell is saying there, withdrawing u.s. forces from syria is a grave strategic mistake. it will leave the american people less safe, embolden enemies and weaken important alliances. >> i'm glad he came out and said that. it doesn't surprise me, thankfully a lot of leaders came out to declare the decision as a mistake. i think this is criminal. the fact that he goes out there and says they are like two kids being left to fight each other is criminal. there are lives being lost there. the turks understood this as a pause in operations. i remember that clearly when i was at the white house.

president erdogan is infamous inflexible. not only is he super stubborn, he doesn't really hear what you say. i remember president obama would have to be extremely firm and tough with him and he still didn't hear. it's no surprise that our leadership walks out and thinks he achieved something and the turks got exactly what they wanted. >> this is not just the turks and the kurds. this is about assad and russia. russian troops in bases that americans used to hold. this isn't a fight between children. this is a proxy fight between big people. the fact that trump is trying to hide that fact is disgusting. you know, russia, russia,

russia. >> i spent years in active duty. the cardinal sin is walking away from your brothers and sisters in arms. the kurds that stood shoulder-to-shoulder with us and foughtit fought itis with us. seeing trump use this as a punch line at his grotesque campaign rallies. he talked to erdogan on the phone and then tweeting out military policy without including any of our military or intelligence leaders. why? why did he do that? he alien aated the people close to him right now. he was willing to say, i don't care what those jurors who are going to save my presidency

think. what is more important is whatever erdogan said to him. we need to know what that is. >> we'll be back around this table talking about this in the weeks ahead. kevin, thank you for coming in and being on the show today. >> thank you. >> coming up, the deadline taking over the uk. leading to a last minute brexit compromise as protesters take to the street. will boris johnson be handed a second defeat. more next. ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪

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>> people simply will not understand how politicians can say with one breath that they want delay to avoid no deal and with the next breath that they still want delay when a great deal is there to be done. >> this is "up," i'm in for david gura. that is boris johnson. it has been three years and three prime ministers since that historic vote took over the uk. now they may be at the finish

line with a deal struck with the european union as protesters march in the street of london. most european leaders are backing johnson's agreement, it is a different matter in london with no clear majority and no clear path forward. will the deal pass or will johnson suffer another defeat? >> the bbc editor joins us now with our panel. answer those two questions, will johnson suffer defeat this time? >> it is impossible to say. i know you hate a guest who comes on and says, only time will tell. only time will tell. i've heard the whips, the people who ensure discipline are

resorting to midevil methods to do everything they can to get this deal across the line. there is an amendment that will delay things slightly. boris johnson wants to get out of the europon union, done and dusted by october 31. there are those who don't trust him, who think he really wants a no deal brexit. it is like a 400-pound gorilla and you are trying to build this cage into which to put boris johnson. the first time the house of commons has sat on a saturday since 1982. >> the clip we saw, it is a full house there. what good would this go through? help us understand the grave

importance people who want to burn it all down and start afresh. britain becomes like singapore. you have a low tax economy, you can treat ruthlessly against your nearest neighbors and do well out of it. just imagine this is a state in the united states. say arkansas suddenly decides to su seed. they agree on that but you have no agreement on health or aviation standards and you find yourself in arkansas and trucks have to stop at the border before bringing food in because there is no agreement.

that's what is happening. will planes be able to land, will we be able to get planes in. that is why they don't want to box boris johnson in to end up with a no deal brexit. >> this deal he says he's reached with the eu, we have the full screen. it is element three. these key elements. the current eu law says each eu member rate must have a vat rate at 15%. ireland vat, uk vat. these are all tax related issues. john, i'm glad you brought up the issues of trucks stopping at the border.

fe food shortages and what happens to britains who aren't living in britain but in other countries. those details are super important. have they been worked out or is britain flying blindly whether it is a no deal brexit and brexit? >> that's why the people say it would be catastrophic. there are hundreds of thousands of britains who live in the union. if you get ill and you are living in spain, you would get free health care and pensions operate the same. pretty much the same as if you lived in the uk. there is a lot of work that would have to be done on that? is britain ready, no it is not.

there are still uncertainties. there are still loads of questions unresolved. there is a deficit of trust on his own bench and option benches. they just quantity everything tied down. go back to the first question, will we get a deal over the line tonight? i suspect not. you know those operas where you have the heroin. she's gasping for her last breath and suddenly belts one out. that's where we are. >> wonderful imagery. if this vote goes down and prime minister is not successful. what happens to him? does he stay prime minister? >> i think there will be another

election. he will go to the country but it is the swamp in westminster who don't want me to implement this change. i am your champion. the rest of them, they just want politics as it always has been. >> sounds familiar. thank you for that great explainer about what is happening in london right now. when we come back, bernie sanders is said toe nab his biggest emdorsment but first late night takes on the largest debate. >> why are there 12 candidates. the last time there were 10. please america, remember to have your candidates spaed or

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>> this is "up." senator sanders will be holding a rally in new york where he's expected to formally gain endorsement from freshman congress come alexandria ocasio-cortez. the two have worked together in the past including recently when they introduced a joint resolution calling on the united states to declare issues on environment. the congresswoman ilhan has endorsed senator sanders. this is a good day for senator

hand sanders. >> it is a good day for him. i'm happy for him. but i know there is only one person who can win the elizabeth warren/bernie sanders stair down. some are like hey, we have billions. we shouldn't be scared of the president. other ones are like, i'm moving to the secret island i purchased off the coast of new zealand. you know elizabeth has this momentum that bernie is not necessarily showing in the polls. i think we'll see it in his area like new hampshire. >> that's also her territory. she's from massachusetts.

talk about a stair down. >> i'm going to add that i love you called her liz. i just don't see the idea that he's back. i don't see how that's possible. as we were talking, he just had a heart attack. that weighs on people. i thought it was hard to work in the u.s. government. let alone if i had just had a heart attack. i just don't know if he can catch up. it is a stair down between the two of them. elizabeth warren is gaining steam. this issue of medicare and she's not explaining how she'll fund that. that will hurt her but she can rectify that. she has a lot of time to figure out how she's going to talk to the american people about that.

maybe she mod eerates. you know, i think this is something she can work on and she'll be fine. >> jonathan, a couple of things. the republicans are shooting themselves in the feet, each other in the feet. they don't know what the heck to maier of mulvaney and pompeo. i'm hoping we can have one democratic debate where they are not snieping at each other. the more they snipe at each other, they are dumping things down to the republican level for the moment. maybe because i raised five daughters and one son. my son believes it when he hears

you can be president of the united states. i don't think that resonates with my five daughters. the women are pulling us out of the morras. let's keep that going. >> let's add that before fiona hill and ambassador, it was black women in special elections in alabama and virginia coming forward and saying, let me help you all out. on the conversation about elizabeth warren and her discussion of medicare for all, i'm going to put this out there. there have been stories about ooh, elizabeth warren won't talk about how she's going to pay for

it. the question is are you going to tax the middle class? is that a legitimate decision or should we just move on because what is happening now in the white house is of more paramount concern? >> i think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. we can be horrified by the white house and demand a clear policy from elizabeth warren. she is up to the task of trolling the white house on twitter and coming up with a policy that makes sense. i do worry about excessive discussion of how american people love their health care plans and want to keep their health care plans. most people hate their health care plans.

we cannot resolve that because they spend a lot of money in that town. >> to the final question about elizabeth warren, to your point, your wall street friends who are nervous. >> friends is a strong word. kidding. love you guys. >> nervous about a nominee and republicans who i've talked to who don't like the president and want the democrats to nominate someone they can go to? are you hearing from those -- all of you have republican friends. for them, elizabeth warren, as much as they don't want to vote for the president and want to vote for a democrat that elizabeth warren is a bridge too far. >> absolutely. i live in connecticut.

a corner that has been previously republican. a lot who supported push and mccain very strongly. they are very concerned. the thing i hear most is that they don't want to vote. as a daughter of immigrants, that pains me. we have to vote. i hear it all the time because she's you too far left. they are a grade of the direction the country would head it and medicare particularly. >> we'll have to have you back in a few weeks to talk about where things are with elizabeth warren and bernie sanders and that stair down you talk about. >> thank you very much to you all. make sure to tune in tomorrow when christine beltran and christine chambers join me with christina greer and more coming

up tomorrow. two lawmakers in the closed door depositions tell us what they learn. the presidential candidate clinton now says could be groomed by russia. spoiler, tulsi gaber bounces back. >> and he went on to be one of the most powerful congressman in american history. remembering elijah cummings, next. biopharmaceutical researchers. driven each day to pursue life-changing cures... in a country built on fostering innovation.

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welcome back to up. the united states lost a great man. his name was elijah eugene cummings. he was a son of sharecroppers that wanted to be a lawyer. a counsellor told him he was not smart enough. he not only became a lawyer, he was elected to the maryland house of delegates six years after passing the bar exam. in 1996 he was elected to

congress. throughout his career he was a statesman, a strong voice for his constituents, people he went home to every night. in his time on capitol hill, he rose through the ranks and became chairman of the congressional black caucus. during his time in congress he was a fierce partisan standing up for direct -- democratic ideals. he helped integrate a local swimming pool when es was 12 years old. he became chairman of the house oversight committee, one of the committees in the middle.

when president trump's former lawyer michael cohen testified before the oversight committee on february 17th, cummings asked the question that takes on greater relevance today. >> when we're dancing with the angels, the question will be asked in 2019 what did we do to make sure we kept our democracy in tact? did we stand on the sidelines and say nothing? >> on september 24th, the day that speaker pelosi wrote when the history books are written about this tumultuous era, i want them to show that i stood up to lawlessness and tierny.

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so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. there is a command for the investigation into the democrats which is part of the reason he wants to withhold funding into

ukraine. >> i have news for everybody, get over it, there will be political influence in foreign policy. >> good morning, this is up, i'm jonathan capehart. and mick mulvaney confirmed that aid was upheld in exchange for an investigation into joe biden. >> i think he clarified it. this is the witch hunt, they're crooked. and in the senate, more troubling news for president trump. the "new york times" reports that republican senate leader mitch mcconnell is telling his colleagues to buckle up.

meanwhile the defenders are not budges. rick perry refusing to comply with subpoenas for documents joining mick mulvaney and associates that now sit in prison. they also slam nancy pelosi for not holding an impeachment vote. but pelosi is not seeing ground. >> there is no requirement that we have a vote so at this time we will not with having a vote. >> kimberly atkins joining us, chris lu, former white house cabinet secretary, and also joining us from washington, kyle cheney, congressional reporter from politico. thank you for being here. kyle i'm going to start with

you. the impact of exacting chief of staff mick mulvaney on what is going on in the white house, has his words had any impact on what is happening on capitol hill, on the impeachment inquiry? >> you can't overstate how monumental what he said was to the ongoing inquiry. they have been trying to determine was there a quid pro quo, and he just said it on live tv, and you know now the investigation takes on a different tenor. >> gym bi throw this out to everybody, and just jump in. i talk about this in the first

hour, but -- okay, the president says things that we can hear, that we can read, and it says everything we need to know and they continue to try to tell us that we have not read what we read and we have not heard what we heard. is that going to work in the end? >> that is what he believes. he has said that. what you see is not what it is. if you say this is how it is and it is fine, his base will stay with him. hopefully congressional republicans stay with him, and so long as they do they will keep the strategy. they never veered from that strategy. >> the hard part is mick mulvaney standing up there. he stood there in the white house press briefing room. he was asked multiple times was this a quid pro quo, and he says yes.

and you can tell why this was so serious. immediately you saw that walk back happening. the doj, and mulvaney knocked it back, but you can see the consternation happening on capitol hill. the minute he is making that statement, he is taking in the deposition of gordon sondland and they're trying to dperm it is a kwid pro quo and mick mulvaney admits to it. >> what i got back after talking to republicans on the hill, and what i got back was simple. they said is he trying to get canned? they were befuddled. how could he go out there and give up the goods in public? you have to wounder what is going on to go out there and say all of the things at once. it wasn't just the quid pro quo,

he said we impounded the money and we used it from political purposes, we stopped it from going out the door. that's against the law. in and of itself. we went to conduct a investigation in a foreign country. that is impeachable. and there was at least three potentially impeachable offenses just there. forget about the whole doral thing. >> this is a great way to deflect from doral to admit to an impeachable offense. >> and the fact that you just said that, chris, shows how other worldly this is.

let's deflect from this horrible thing with this horrible thing. kyle, initially if you a few weeks ago, but it could have been yesterday. mcconnell is saying well, you know if the house brings over the articles, and you know we probably have to look at it. and the con vepgsal -- conventional wisdom that was he would take it, and then it would be over, but they had a power point to walk through what could happen and how serious this is. is it possible that if or when the articles of impeachment come over from the house, they will be forced to have a full on trial of the president of the united states?

>> not necessarily forced, but i think he is sensing the political reality of it, that just casting aside the articles could be worse than taking them, looking at them thoroughly, and in their view just acquitting the president or declining to remove, making a show of -- taking a serious look, fleshing them out, and laying out the evidence. that opens the senate up to a more predictable scenario. that's when they get to see everything laid out for them. >> and keep in mind one of the reasons that mcconnell is doing this is to give those vulnerable senate candidates up in 2020 to potentially give them some cover. kyle cheney, thank you very much for being with us this morning. joining us now, peter we'lch.

thank you for being here this morning. can i just get your reaction to the clip we played of mick mulvaney to jonathan alan's point saying what he said and admitting to things that are potential impeachable offenses, but also breaking the law. >> they went from a defense of saying we didn't do it to a defense when they said so what if we did and that is the normalization that the trump white house industries to do. in my view with all of the focus on mulvaney, i don't think that was a surprise, i think it was

rehearsed. third as jonathan said, the use of the presidency to advance your own personal interests is what is really the high crime and misdemeanor here. no senator or congressman can assist help, but where the stonewalling administration is being overcome by brave people like fiona hill. or ambassador yovanovitch, it focuses on an investigation for political purposes of the bidens. and that is where there is real jeopardy for president trump. >> congressman, can i ask you, let me ask you about the timing. in terms of your committees

investigations and the other five committees that are looking into impeachment, one of the things in washington that we keep hearing about is the concern that this inquiry will bleed into the 2020 contest and complicate things. how quickly could we see articles of impeach mement vote out and put to the floor to be over to the senate. >> i can't tell you the time, but chairman schiff has a view that we have to act promptly, thoroughly, and carefully. there is a real premium on trying to get to a conclusion sooner rather than later. you're seeing that with the pace and the number of witnesses coming in. things totally changed on this after the release of the transcript of president trump's call with the president of ukraine. it was his own words that had

given so much light to this question. and now the dynamic with people coming forward that can't be stopped by the administration, new information is coming up, we want to get that, but i think you will see us keeping up a quick pace. >> thank you for that update and for being on "up." >> still ahead, a leading democrat, sheila jackson lee will be here with more on the break next impeachment inquiry. another stunning revelation from the white house, the reasoning behind the holding, the upcoming g 7 summit at a trump property and why it could be just the administration resorting to distraction. resorting to distraction. when i showed my mom the dna results,

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breaking news this morning where protestors are taking to the streets of london over a possible brexit agreement. it is the first time britain's governing body convened on a saturday since 1982. welcome back to "up." president trump is facing several lawsuits related to

whether or not he is illegally profiting off of the presidency. but that didn't stop him from awarding a federal contract to a trump property for next year's g 7 summit. they insist the president would not make meeting off of the meeting in doral florida, still, the house is expected to vote next week on a resolution condemning the feud. this property is being pointed out because he is failing. how bad does his company need this business. look what happened there during his presidency. in one year from 2016 to 2017 revenue fell 13.8%. net operating income fell 62%. joining me now is founder of dc reports dotorg david k. johnson.

david, this is a set up question for you, are you at all surprised or shocked that the g 7 is going to the doral property. >> no, because donald needs the money. there is no evidence that he is the multibillionaire he claims. the profits have shrunk to such a point that they're smaller than his interest payments, that is not a good sign. and let's keep in mind the emoluments clause at the core of this says nothing about profits, it is money, period. donald simply getting money from the other six big economies violates the emoluments clause. >> we have the emoluments clause

on the screen. it says no american holding any office of profit or trust under them, the united states states, shall without the consent of the congress accept of any present, emolument, office, or title of any kind whatever from any king, prince, or foreign state. i don't know, chris, does having the g 7 at a property owned by the president of the united states seems to violate that and the idea that he, the white house says he is not making any money off of this is laughable. >> i was the deputy secretary of labor. i was told i had to sell any individual stock of any company to avoid aconflict of interest

or any apparent conflict of interest. that standard would not suffice for any other federal ploet. senator scott said it is not a conflict of interest if it involves florida. >> this is the thing that, put up the constitution clause again, it is literally word for word what this was designed to stop. and i really don't think that anyone wants to make that argument, right? that because he has been told he could not hold the g 7 meeting at this spot that it is consent, right? we are looking at the very

thing, specifically the very thing, and it is astounding to me that there is no one in capitol hill hill up in arms. >>. >> that is why i became speechless. the idea that republicans on km capitol hill have consents to these things. i republican a republican party that no matter who was doing this would have been dragged. >> it shows you how much that washington has changed in such a short time, in our generation, every other president, before running for president, die vested or put them into blind trusts. he but for that reason, gaef up all of that so there would be no

appearance now that we have a president that came in and flouted all of the legal, ethical constitutional rules, and we're seeing there is no level for enforcement. when he is immune from the federal laws, he is just going to do is because he can. and just think about the fact that if the say laws were in place, and they took it so much differently, and myth romney was rich when he ran for president, it is just the difference in the ethical standard. >> and david k. johnson -- >> let's not forget in the first hour of his presidency he signalled his intention to be

corrupt. he got out in front of the trump hotel. he is still there. people are paying triple to him. he is running a racket. you pay tribute if you want a favor from him, and we have been documenting this a lot >> david k. johnson, thank you for joining "up" today. the president is pushing back on criticism that he abandoned the kurds. we're going to the border for a fact check on the ground there right after the break. fact check on the ground there right after the break. ♪ ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows

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all of the hallmarks of his "america first" foreign policy, but has america first now evolved into everyone else last? >> from this day forward, it will be only america first. >> so i viewed the situation on the turkish border with syria, for the united states, strategically brilliant. that has nothing to do with us, and the kurds are safer right now. and as i said they're not angels. >> ayr mclaughlin is on the turkey syria border and joins us now. >> hi, yeah, it is relatively quiet here at the moment.

we heard some spore ratic small arms fire, the kind of thing we have heard all day, but come spa compared to what we saw yesterday, it is much more quiet. it is a flash point of this con fli fli flict. they put it out, especially with the city behind me, and they are preventing a safe corridor that allows humanitarian aide in and allows injured and civilians out. turkey has yet to comment on that report, but there is serious questions about it going

fard especi forward especially when you consider them withdrawing from the safe zone as defined by turkey. we're hearing reports from inside the military that they're not letting anyone out. we spoke to u.s. officials about that. they say there are elements in the area that are not entirely under turkey's control. >> erin, thank you very much for that report and for joining us. >> during a tense white house meeting on wednesday, president trump referred to his former defense secretary, jim mattis, and the world's most overrated general. . >> he also called meryl streep an overrated actress, so i guess i'm the meryl streep of

generals. some of you were kind enough to ask me if this bothered me and i said of course not, i earned my spurs on the battlefield, and he earned his spurs in a letter from a doctor. joining us is barry mccaffery. can i get your reaction, as a member of the military, what does it say or mean to you to have a president of the united states say what he said about general mattis? >> it is sort of kmcomical. these are people with reputations that are simply n r near -- it doesn't make a lot of

sense, mattis is in a special military. he designed in writing over principal to continue the exchange with mr. trump. and coming out of the university is, i think, a patriot. at the end of the day what we're seeing is a total break down in national security process. this is mr. trump, home alone, writing letters to president erdogan. that are almost comical. >> general, to the things that the president has said that we played earlier of the president in the oval office saying the kurds are no angels, this is not

our problem, that is not our border, that runs -- that flies in the face of decades of u.s. foreign policy, does it not? >> no question, look the kurds have been very beleaguered and endangered people. they understand the consequences of being handed into the hands of their enemies, but also these arab m.a. liilitias that have b aligned in the past. we asked them to go take down the isis caliphate. in many cases it can't their fight and they had tens of thousands of fighters killed or wounded. so now we delivered them to the hands of their enemy, and for

mr. trump to say they're happy with the situation is simply preposterous. now we're going to watch an ongoing humanitarian disaster of people that fought for u.s. national security. >> can america's reputation around the world survive not just the trump presidency, but this decision that he made in turkey. abandoning an ally says something to the kurds but also something to our other partners around the world, does it not? >> yeah, but this has been going on for three years now. to see him denigrate nato. the corner stone of u.s. national security. the way he dealt with the south koreans, the way he dealt with the japanese. the embrace of people like

duterte. i think primarily people respect not just the economic and military power of the united states, but also our values. but mr. trump has now devalued our alliances and it won't change as long as he is in office. >> you have the united states pulling back and essentially letting what will happen, happen over there. what i wonder is what faith do you have that if president trump decided that if he wanted to do something offensive with that military that that process might be in place. that he would be getting good advice in the national security couns counsel, the defense secretary, or that there would be good things going on in terms of the advice from the chain of command

in the military right now? look, the actual military chiefs of staff are as experienced and sensible and law abiding. they grew up in combat fighting a war against terror. i think the current chairman will be brutally enticed. i think they will be legal, i think they will be carried out, and i think president trump grasped that there are very few bars on his behavior. so we're in a very risky situation. he is capable, as we just saw in syria among or things, of making unwise impulsive choices. and none of us on this show

right now want the jcs to be the public face of opposition to mr. trump. that is the job of the media, the court system, and most importantly the congress. so we have to step up to this, we're not going to get rescued by mr. mattis. >> thank you for being on up. >> when we come back, hillary clinton says the contender being groomed by russia. next. russia. next old was in an accident. usaa took care of her car rental, and getting her car towed. all i had to take care of was making sure that my daughter was ok. if i met another veteran, and they were with another insurance company, i would tell them,

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a curt presidential candidate is defending herself against attacks from hillary clinton. she took attack at an unnamed 2020 contender saying she was being groomed as a third party candidate. >> they're also going to do third-party again. and i'm not making any predictions, but i think they have their eye on somebody that is currently in the democratic primary and they're grooming her to be the third party candidate. she is a favorite of the russians. they have a bunch of sites,

bots, and other ways of supporting her so far. and that is assuming jill stein will give it up, which she might not because she is also a russian asset. >> tulsi gabbard said the former secretary of state hillary clinton the rot of the democratic party. >> i'm waiting for a shot at andrew yang. the one way that democrats don't defeat trump is if there is a third-party candidate. if there is a third party and it is tulsi gabbard, and she is trying to jump start her campaign, and this is a great way to get attention. you're flashing her tweet on the

screen, attention she would not otherwise have. it is a weird fight for her to pick. within the democratic party i think hillary clinton is still wildly popular. she got nearly 66 million votes and i'm not sure if going after her this way will help her but she will get a bump of attention and it will appeal to the fox news crowd. >> one thing that was interesting about tuls tulsi gabbard's response is she said she would run as a third party candidate, but she did not deny being a russian asset. you would think that would be the first line or two. it was not there. >> when hillary clinton say there's is no russian asset, not naming any names, and she says how dare you call me a russian asset. >> she didn't even say she

wasn't. >> no, to your point, hillary clinton didn't name names, but congresswoman gabbard was like me me me. >> she wanted the attention, hillary clinton may be rooting for the washington nationals, stay in the fight. >> that was a nice plug there, john. >> but clinton has decided she has credibility on this issue. s she shoot up in her election and said russia is interfering. >> everybody thought she was a little nuts. >> and everybody was like what are you talking about, and it turns out low and be behold she was accurate about that, russia was interfering in the election to the point that all of our national security agencies said that was the case.

a senate investigation said that, a house investigation said that. so when she says tulsi gabbard, or an unnamed person, she -- when she says that, she is laying that marker, she is laying credibility on the issue that really no one else does. she puts it out there now because she must feel like you put it out there as early as possible to fight it because if you wait at all, you're giving time for something to take hold. >> and she knows she probably would be president if there was not the third party candidate. but it is significant that yet another entity has come forward

to say there was no there there. no classified information was released, and i guess you know for those of us that have been following this, we knew to be the case. thing thing that rubs me the wrong way is that means we're not talking about actual classified information that has been released by the president of the united states. >> right, freely and openly in oval office conversations. it is how washington dramatically in such a short period of time. our intelligence information is now up for grabs in a way that we were fearful of four years ago but it happens on almost a regular basis now. >> i was about to ask the nancy

pelosi picture up but we're out of time. >> you can recreate it. >> the impeachment inquiry against the president speeds through the house, but is the case against trump a slam dunk? sheila jackson lee has been in the room where the inquiry happens and he have be here, next. first, breaking brexit news. lawmakers have voting in a matter of minutes on the latest proposal of a deal struck between the european union and boris johnson. we'll bring you to london for the vote when it happens. g you the vote when it happens a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor

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under cruteny. and now into president trump's dealings with ukraine. george kent told investigators that the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, tried to secure a visa for victor schoken. it was an unproven theory that joe biden pushed for the firing of shoken to help his son. joining us now is sheila jackson lee. thank you for being here. >> pleasure to be with you and good morning to everyone and thank you as i begin let me make mention of our fallen colleague chairman cummings to thank him for his service and his legacy and my sympathy to all of his

family and constituents. >> thank you, i want to start here. thursday acting chief of staff mick mulvaney admitting that the president was involved and then trying to take it back later. what does mulvaney's statement mean for the impeachment inquiry. >> well, i think it's important for the american people to know that as we do our work, we're not guided by the constant chatter and the constant intrusion of the kind of egregious statements that have been made so the first thing i would like to say is that we are doing this in a somber and sober manner. the investigations are going on, witnesses are being questioned and cross examined and let it be known to the american people that republicans and democratic members are in the room as well as the fact as democratic and republican lawyers representing

those particular committees. but the instance of mr. mulvaney is the continuation of the collapse of this administration, the kind of calamity and catastrophic actions that are going on that really gives a signal that there's no one in charge. mr. mulvaney, in essence, gave a confession. everyone knows that. if you're a prosecutor, you know that. his confession was a confession of the president. he admitted that this administration plays politics with the national security of the american people. he admitted that this administration is willing to hold monies for a desperate country like ukraine with russian -- russia on its border, with crimea already taken by russia, which is part of ukraine, and where that new president was desperately looking for military aid, we're willing to barter our soul, our integrity for a few pennies of making sure that we had something on an opponent of this

president in the 2020 election. >> congresswoman, back to something you said a moment ago about talking to witnesses, deposing them, cross examining them. why -- could you explain to the american people why aren't these depositions being done in the open, being done publicly? >> certainly. let me indicate a change in the law that has occurred between the nixon and clinton impeachments. there was something called the independent prosecutor statute. that meant that in watergate, in clinton, mr. starr did the full investigation with lawyers away from the eyesight of the american people. it was like prosecutors investigating as they do before they come before the grand jury. in this instance, there is no independent counsel and so the congress has to play that role. in the judiciary committee, we have had closed door

depositions, witnesses have requested closed door depositions, so in the instance of the three committees now focusing on national security, they are, in fact, being the prosecutors providing the research or the investigation, so they're deposing witnesses, but no one is left out in terms of being fair to the president or to republicans, because all the members are in, all of the lawyers representing republicans and democrats are in, and then there will be some open hearings and if, as the reports come to the house judiciary committee, and a determination is made on the articles of impeachment, all of that will be public. the president's lawyers will be able to be present as we saw in the clinton proceeding and in the nixon proceeding. because the house stands as a whole as a grand jury. the judiciary committee would pass out the articles of impeachment. so, it is in the investigatory stage now and that's what is going on. >> and so in terms of the timetable, congresswoman, when

do you think the articles of impeachment will be brought to the floor of the house for a full vote of the house of representatives? >> you know, i would not want to presuppose any final steps but let me try to give some order and direction to where we are. i said it as i began. we have no desire to be engaged in a witch hunt. none of us ran on the idea of impeaching a president. we thought we could work on a president that would support the values of the united states, that would support national security for the american people over his own personal politics. you just mentioned that there was a humanitarian crisis going on in syria. i'm trying to fight for a no fly zone there to save people's lives. but we have an administration in calamity. what we're doing is we're getting all the facts of what happened in this instance around the ukrainian call.

we will proceed once those committees provide their reports to the house judiciary committee. we will proceed with the determination that the articles of impeachment should be written, if that is the decision. hearings and then move towards some vote on the floor of the house, which has to occur, deali dealing articles of impeachment. i don't want to give a time frame but we should be expeditious, we could be factual and we should serve the american people's interests and i hope we do it very, very soon. >> congresswoman sheila jackson lee, thank you very much for being here and thank you to my panel this hour, jonathan allen, kimberly atkins and chris lu. coming up, a former solicitor general sounds off on impeachment and mulvaney's big quid pro quo moment when neal joins joy reid next. t when neal joins joy reid next. it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey.

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british lawmakers have voted to postpone a decision on whether to back a brexit deal with the european union, throwing a wrench into government plans to believe the bloc at the end of this month. "a.m. joy" starts right now. ♪ take that, brexit. all right, well, welcome this

morning to "a.m. joy." sorry, i just got into the music. just like those good old bene hill sketches, donald trump's presidency just keeps going off the rails. his carefully laid plan to execute damage control after getting caught withholding military aid to ukraine unless the country under siege from russia agreed to back up a russia clearing conspiracy theory and investigate joe biden and his son has completely fallen apart. it all started when the man who fancies himself a very stable genius released the transcript of the phone call with the russian president which did the complete opposite of proving there had been no wrong doing. he then thought that he could strong arm officials at the state department to not testify to congress, but they're clearly defying him and one by one, talking to congress anyway. and then on thursday, something happened in the white house briefing room that could not have been scripted better. if it really had been a benny hill sketch. mick mulvaney, the acting chief

of staff, went to the white house briefing room