reviews into what started the russia investigation, even questioning the legal basis into looking into it all. new questions about rudy giuliani's overseas connections and why they could be adding to his legal problems. and war of words. tulsi gabbard slamming hillary clinton over some remarks about russia. >> this deal is not good for jobs. a deal that would see scotland shafted by this united kingdom government. >> a deal that can heal the rift in british politics, unite -- unite -- in london, a day of debate and protests over brexit. what happened at the last minute with a crucial vote? all right, we begin with breaking news. nbc news has learned the justice department's review into the origins of the russia investigation is now expanding. nbc's white house correspondent kelly o'donnell has more on that. kelly, what is all of this about? >> reporter: well, this is one of the investigations that is

looking at what happened in 2016. and you might say to yourself, well, we thought that was the mueller investigation. we know that's in the books now. there was also an inspector general probe. that's behind us. but this is one that was initiated by the attorney general who appointed the u.s. attorney from connecticut, john durham, to look at some of the origins of how did the russia investigation begin and really going back to the early days of when some initial surveillance of people affiliated with the trump campaign began. they're looking for those origins. of course, this is right in the wheelhouse of the president's interest in what happened in 2016, unsatisfied by the other kinds of probes that have been out there, and william barr, the attorney general, has been right alongside the president with this. and part of what appears to be happening is that the u.s. attorney involved in this is now, through sources on our justice team, finding out that he wants to interview people who were in the intelligence

community, including the former cia director, john brennan, the former director of national intelligence, john clapper, under president obama, and to look for some of those early roots of how did it begin that there was any kind of search for information about people affiliated with president trump, that time donald trump candidate. so, part of what is a question about this is, is there any criminal wrongdoing that's been identified? one of the questions is, what is the legal authority here? because typically, you would have the fbi identifying potentially a crime and then investigators pursuing it. unclear and not known publicly what that might be. the attorney general has said in unrelated interviews that the power that this u.s. attorney has goes beyond what an inspector general could do, for example, the ability to compel people to testify. that suggests subpoenas. what we don't know is what will be found.

the justice department is not specifically commenting on this, but this suggests an expansion of the effort by the trump administration to try to find answers. now, of course, this comes with the backdrop of all things ukraine, where rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, was working along with some officials in the state department to try to get ukraine to do some investigating about the origins of the 2016 campaign. so, this quest to find out more information and the belief the president has expressed publicly that there were things done uneffectively and that in effect his campaign was spied on and wanting to get to the roots of that. so, that is where this is headed and it is in the purview of the department of justice with a u.s. attorney who's been named to work on this. we don't know when it will be done, when will it be ready, when will we learn what, if nick, has been found, and is there any criminal wrongdoing alleged here, or is it more of a survey of what the circumstances

were? those are some of the questions that remain unanswered. alison? >> so many questions unanswered. kelly o'donnell from the white house, we thank you so much. joining me now, senior reporter at business insider, josh gerstein with politico and sidney oxny, former federal prosecutor. cynthia, i'll start with you. what is your initial reaction to all this? >> it's been investigated ad nauseam, but just that trump doesn't like the answer. he doesn't want to know. he doesn't want us to believe and understand that the investigation into the russian collusion investigation began when george papadopoulos got drunk at a bar in london and told the australian ambassador that he had been told that russia had a bunch of dirt on hillary and that they were going to drop it at convenient times. that was reported extensively. and the australians, after they found out that the dnc server had been hacked, gave that to

the fbi, and that's what opened the investigation. we know that. but they don't like the answer. that's the problem. and so, we've had all of this machinations and, frankly, comments by barr which suggest he thinks there was spying, which there was not, and allegations about the fisa warrant, which was perfectly legal and scrupulously handled, and they just don't want to hear what the answer is. and at some point, you know, we have to stop this. >> so, josh, what does this expansion tell you? are they widening the scope because they found something here or because they didn't find anything? >> it's not clear to me what their rationale is for broadening it, but it does sound now like they're going beyond what was already under review. the things cynthia is talking about are things that were the subject of an office of inspector general report that we're expecting to get in the next few weeks that look at the origins of this investigation and was the fisa court the court that issued some of these surveillance warrants, were they

given accurate and complete information. but it sounds like this probe or review or investigation they are conducting is much broader than that, is tracing back all kinds of irks related to russia that happened in the 2016 campaign. and if we believe the way the white house is framing it, maybe covering issues about who hacked the dnc emails. so i'm not even clear on what the possible outer boundaries are of what this review could be looking into. >> this comes after attorney general barr reportedly went to italy earlier this month to listen to a secret tape from a professor who helped ignite the russia probe. what do we know about that and how does all of that fit into this new development? >> the thing is, it's still really unclear because there's just been so little transparency from the justice department and from other u.s. government agencies about this, you know, investigation of the investigators that the attorney general has been conducting for months now. what i will say is that i've spoken to multiple current and former fbi officials, and all of them have said that this is

really affecting morale within the bureau, particularly as they, you know, come under scrutiny for essentially what they say was doing their jobs. there is no evidence that anyone acted improperly, that there was any kind of breach of protocol, and they really feel like they're just being targeted for political reasons. and so, it's important to look at how that can affect how the fbi investigates matters like these going forward. >> cynthia, just to be perfectly clear, what legal basis, if any, is there for this probe? and is this within the scope of normal at all for the justice department? >> well, it's not necessarily in the scope because we have the ig looking at it, we've had senate intelligence committee looking at it. it's -- i really think what's happened is that they don't like the result that they've been getting in the normal investigations, and so, bar wants more control over it. i was concerned -- this guy, durham, who was assigned to do the investigation, has a very good reputation, but i have to say, i'm concerned that barr's intervening. what was barr doing going to

italy to listen to the tape? i mean, if durham's in charge of the investigation, then he ought to be doing the investigation. and somehow, barr is nosing into that, and i find his interference worrisome. >> cynthia oxny, thank you so much for joining us. sonam and josh, stay with me. i want your thoughts on a couple other stories we have coming up. more now on the rapidly increasing impeachment inquiry. damning information about the president over the last 26 days, even though he keeps calling it a coup. under oath in congress, current and former officials one after another have laboratoried on a clear narrative that's starting to emerge that the president through his personal lawyer orchestrated an effort to pressure ukraine to dig up dirt for his personal political gain. democrats seizing on acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney admitting, but then walking back that there was a quid pro quo. >> mr. mulvaney in essence gave a confession. everyone knows that. if you're a prosecution, you know that his confession was a confession of the president. he admitted that this administration plays politics

with the national security of the american people. >> and next week, congressional investigators are zeroing in on the acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, one of seven depositions scheduled as you can see there. house democrats want to know why in september, ambassador taylor texted the u.s. ambassador to the european union, gordon sondland, "as i said on the phone, i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign." now, ambassador sondland told congress on thursday that the president delegated american foreign policy on ukraine to his lawyer, rudy giuliani. earlier today, a house democrat questioned sondland's credibility. >> i think he was very disingenuous, if not lying. there's some gaps in his statement that he should have known if he's someone of that stature. >> this week, republicans in congress struggle to defend the president, not only on ukraine, but also over his risky withdrawal of troops from northern syria and his decision to host the g7 summit at his doral resort.

one house republican is not ruling out supporting impeachment. >> whatever might have been gray and unclear before is certainly quite clear right now, that the actions were related to getting ukraine to do some of these things. we're not supposed to use government power and prestige for political gain. >> is that an impeachable offense? >> that's something i really can't answer. i don't know. i want to study it some more. i want to hear the next set of testimony next week from a couple more ambassadors, but it's certainly very, very serious and troubling. >> all right, sonam and josh are back. sonam, according to "the new york times," the mood among republicans on capitol hill has shifted from indig nate to anxious because of the testimonies on the hill, and they grew even more worried after mulvaney's remarks. what is your read on this? how big of a conundrum did mulvan mulvaney's comments create for republicans this week? >> when he took the podium yesterday, he got up there and threw a wrench through the entire defense that the

president and his republican allies in congress have been making. so, setting aside the fact that soliciting foreign interference in an election with or without a quid pro quo is in and of itself potentially illegal conduct, their main defense was that, look, there was no quid pro quo here. he was just talking about wanting an investigation into corruption because he feels like it's in the u.s.'s interests. when mick mulvaney got up there, he essentially said that, yeah, the president was withholding this aid and essentially dangling taxpayer dollars because he wanted an investigation into his political opponent ahead of the election. and so, you know, it's kind of caused quite a bit of a stir in the white house, according to current and former officials who have kind of been paralyzed by the fact that mick mulvaney went up there and essentially undermined the entire defense that the president has had. >> josh, republicans have been militant in backing the president during the impeachment investigation. when you hear republican lawmakers like congressman

rooney just now keeping the impeachment option open, is that significant? is that a sign of a shift to you at all? >> it is, and i think another indication of that is representatives not just like representative rooney, who's been at the margins, is thinking about not running for election, but earlier this week, mark meadows, who's been one of the president's staunchest defenders, said that the conduct of the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, the president sending him to ukraine to look for dirt on the bidens -- mark meadows says that's something he would never have done and he would have advised against. so, you may have people not willing to say publicly the "i" word or anything close to endorsing impeachment, but when they start publicly voicing criticism of the president, when they're still stalwart allies of his, there is a sense that the tide is turning on capitol hill to some degree. >> you published a piece about giuliani emerging as the weakest

link of the ukraine policy. can you explain that? and do you expect the president to do anything? >> with rudy giuliani, we're essentially seeing the michael cohen story. he's already emerged as the president's main envoy in this effort to conduct, you know, somewhat of a shadow foreign policy campaign as it relates to ukraine. so, that's obviously one of the main reasons why he's under scrutiny and why he could -- you know, the heat could turn up further on him depending on what we hear from congressional testimony. two other really important things are that, one, he is under criminal investigation by the southern district of new york connected to his efforts to oust the u.s.'s ambassador in ukraine, and i think something that was incredibly important that was reported earlier this week by cnn is that that criminal investigation also includes a counterintelligence probe, which essentially means that the fbi potentially sees rudy giuliani as a national security threat. and so, what i'm hearing in the days since these developments have come out is that rudy giuliani needs to lawyer up. the president is standing by

giuliani as of now, but obviously, as we saw with michael cohen, you know, trump's loyalties can flip at the drop of a hat. and so, i wouldn't be surprised if rudy giuliani found himself on the outskirts of the inner circle, depending on what we hear in the next couple weeks. >> josh, we know the state department completed the investigation into hillary clinton's private email server. you reported on this yesterday. when the report came out. run us through your key takeaways, if you will. >> well, the overall top line of the investigation was that there seemed to be no systematic effort to mishandle classified information. of course, people know that secretary clinton elected to use a private email server and account when she served as secretary. there were tens of thousands of emails that went back and forth across that account and the state department has been investigating basically what should be done to individuals who sent her emails that potentially contained classified information. and it sounds like about three dozen of them now will have some kind of mark or record put in

their file of a security violation, but the state department found that the instances where that was done on purpose, where people actually realized they were dealing in classified information, were essentially few and far between. i think the word they used was rare, and that most of the time, people were doing their best to keep the discussion of those sensitive details out of that unclassified channel. >> sonam, josh, thank you both so much for being here today. >> thank you. >> thank you. all right, now to the other big, breaking news of the day. the u.s.-brokered cease-fire between turkish and kurdish fighters is not holding. nbc news has confirmed, the fighting is still happening in kurdish territory with turkish-backed forces engaging kurdish forces. we're joined by erin mclaughlin. what are you seeing on the ground? >> reporter: alison, a mile behind me is the border and a kurdish city that is a flashpoint in this entire

conflict. throughout the day, we've heard a sporadic gunfire, heavy weapons and mortar fire. we also watched over an hour ago as a column of turkish tanks moved into position outside the city. inside the city, i spoke with a medical volunteer in the city's hospital. she painted a desperate and bleak picture. she said that the hospital was surrounded by turkish-backed forces who were firing their guns throughout the day on the hospital. we also watched as a convoy of around 20 ambulances left the city full of what our sources say are the wounded. meanwhile, nbc's richard engel is reporting that this cease-fire is not holding, citing a senior u.s. official with knowledge of the situation as well as a kurdish commander, both of them saying that it appears as though turkey is using the cease-fire to grab

more land in and around ras al line. the kurdish commander going on to say that he has been trying to pull his forces out of the city as per the agreement between the united states and turkey, and he's been unable to do so because turkish forces have been firing on them. he has been calling for a secure corridor to be created for that to happen. we've reached out to turkish officials trying to get comments on these allegations. we have yet to hear back. we did hear today from turkish president erdogan, who said that at the end of the five-day cease-fire period, if kurdish forces had not completely withdrawn from this area, he would continue with his offensive. alison? >> erin mclaughlin in turkey, thank you. the controversial doral decision. what members of congress are doing about it and the blowback the president could face. plus, tens of thousands in the streets of london. a report on the brexit protests

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no on big tobacco. no on prop c. breaking in london. another devastating loss for prime minister boris johnson in his brexit crusade. 322 members of parliament stood in favor of the letwin amendment, effectively delaying a vote on the latest brexit plan. prime minister boris johnson said he will put a bill up for a vote next week to avoid another delay. he said he will not ask for an

extension, even though the law requires him to do so. >> the opportunity to have a meaningful vote has effectively been passed up because the meaningful vote has been voided of meaning. i will not negotiate a delay with the eu. and neither does the law compel me to do so. further delay would be bad for this country, bad for our european union and bad for democracy. >> as parliament spars, protesters are flooding the streets of london. they are against leaving the european union. nbc news correspondent steve patterson in london now covering the vote and protests. and steve, wow, a lot going on. what's happening there now?alis first it's important to talk about what didn't happen today. today was supposed to be super saturday. this was the decisive vote, yes or no, on boris johnson's plan

to exit or brexit the european union. that did not happen. instead, what did is mps voted for an amendment, which would further delay that decisive action. voting for basically stipulations that would say you need to cross all your ts, dot all your is, have the language ready to go before we make that decisive vote. that further delays this whole process. that's exactly what boris johnson did not want to happen, because that means that the law stipulates that he has to go back to the eu and ask for abstention. that is something he has said he would rather die in a ditch than do. he said he would never do that. so, what happens next is really anyone's guess. johnson has said that he will not negotiate that delay. what that means is sort of up to legal interpretation. it depends on what the speaker now says moving forward. but obviously, this was a day that was supposed to have decisive action. and in a way, in effect, it did, but again, the ramifications,

we'll have to wait and see. here is what one former speaker on downing street said and summarized about the day. listen to this. >> it was billed as super saturday, becoming like the never-ending story. i think we will get much more of this. the amendment that went through has sort of killed off any more action in parliament today. where that leaves us is people retreating to their tribal lines that they've always held. where this is heading to is either referendum or an election, because something has to break the impasse. >> reporter: we could see another election, a second referendum, which means it could be back in the hands of the people. all this moving forward depends on what the speaker says either tonight or moving forward into next week. meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of protesters took to the streets today. they had a lot to say about what's happening in parliament and we, of course, obviously will be following all of this as it moves forward, alison. >> wow, look at that. >> reporter: back to you. >> that's amazing. nbc's steve patterson covering what really does appear to be the never-ending story.

thank you so much. >> reporter: you get it. more breaking news, nbc news has learned attorney general bill barr's review into the origins of the russia investigation is expanding significantly. the prosecutor conducting the review says he intends to interview a number of current and former intel officials. joining me, emanuel cleaver, a democratic member of the financial services committee. congressman, thank you for being here. how do you view this expansion? >> i think this is really, really tragic that an investigation can be conducted and then we decide to investigate the investigators. look, my constituents would like for that to happen, you know? many of them, some of them get convicted on things, and after that, they should say, well, we want the fbi to investigate the fbi or the police department or the sheriff's department. or is this just reserved for the president of the united states

who didn't like what the report -- the initial report produced? the president of the united states has asked his hand-picked attorney general to go out and find something that would allow him to say that the investigation that was directed at him was unjust and unfair. there are a lot of people who would like for that to happen, and i think this is a dangerous precedent. and it also is an insult to the fbi, the cia, the national security council, all of the other agencies that report to the committee. i'm also on homeland security committee. and you know, these are men and women who put their lives on the line every day, and we have no right to then go out and essentially insult them that they were somehow partisan in an investigation. >> do you worry that this will just keep going on until the president gets the outcome he

wants? >> absolutely. i think he's hoping that with his hand-picked attorney general, who actually has already demonstrated that he leans toward the president on matters of justice, is going to eventually find something. and i don't think there's anything going to stop the president from going in that direction. it's unfortunate. it's tragic. and i think it's very dangerous for our children and even their children to set this precedent. i mean, nobody gets the chance to investigate the people who investigated them. and if we don't trust the fbi and the cia and all of the other agencies that are created for the purpose of protecting our national security, then maybe we're facing the end of this great empire that has been created by our foreparents. and i think many of them would just be sickened to know what's going on right now. >> i'd love to get your thoughts

on the white house's decision to award next year's g7 summit to the president's own golf resort in miami. first, let's listen to white house chief of staff mick mulvaney making that announcement thursday. >> we're going to do the 46th g7 summit on june 10th through june 12th at the trump national doral facility in miami, florida. we absolutely believe this is the best place to have it. we're going to have it there, and there's going to be some folks who will never get over the fact that it's a trump property. we get that, but we're still going to go there. >> congressman, the president is already facing several lawsuits and congressional investigations related to claims that he is profiting off the presidency. in this particular case, your colleague, judiciary chair jerry nadler said it's one of the clearest examples of corruption and violations of the constitution's emoluments clause. do you agree with that? >> i absolutely do agree. and i think some of our colleagues are developing legislation now to present next week just so the president will not be able to say that congress

has to express its opinion on this whether or not it's legal. and i think we have some presidents that we can look back at, where presidents actually brought gifts that they received from foreign heads of state and congress said no. the other thing is, i pastored the st. james united methodist church here and i'm going to propose that we have the summit there. and we're going to charge, you know, just a couple of offerings on sundays that would go to the building fund, because i think, you know, our church is a perfect place to have that conference. now, there is a baptist church down the street that i understand is going to propose it as well, where another member of congress belongs. this is absolutely ridiculous. it's a cartoon. >> let me ask you about the impeachment inquiry. what do you make of the evidence that's been collected so far as your colleagues are conducting these depositions? and do you think there is

already enough to drop articles of impeachment? >> there probably is. i'm not in on any of the committees of jurisdiction, but i do think that nancy pelosi is absolutely brilliant as it relates to what we've been going through since we were sworn in again this past january. we've got to be meticulously careful in everything we do. one of the good things that's happening now is that we're getting a lot of people coming to us now saying, i want to give information. they were afraid earlier to give information, but they're now, after the whistle-blower and the second whistle-blower, others are coming along. and i think we need to continue to get information that would be done in the same fashion that the fbi or professional investigation group would do it and take our time. i don't think this is something that we should try to rush in before the holidays in december or even easter. let's just go and do all of the work we can do because the more

we are out here doing investigations, the more information seemingly is coming forward. >> congressman emanuel cleaver, thanks for being with us. >> good to be with you. bernie sanders in nyc with aoc. will this be the big moment he needs? a preview up next. he the big mome needs? a preview up next. nyquil severe gives you powerful relief

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in the next hour, senator bernie sanders will hold his first campaign rally since he had a heart attack almost three weeks ago, and he's bringing along a big endorsement. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez will appear with the vermont senator in new york, where she is expected to endorse sanders for president. gary is at that rally in queens. gary, what does this endorsement mean for the sanders campaign? >> reporter: so, alison, talking to some campaign staffers earlier, the campaign is in a great mood. this is a very big day for the bernie sanders campaign. as you said, it's been 19 days ines bernie sanders last had a campaign rally since his heart attack. the campaign brought up a busful of staffers from their d.c. headquarters to be with the thousands of supporters here in queens bridge park today. now, of course, he's going to have some support for this "bern "bernie's back" rally. as you said, representative alexandria ocasio-cortez is

going to be here along with filmmaker michael moore, who will be both endorsing bernie sanders and will be speaking ahead of the senator here in the park. now, this location was chosen on purpose. this is right next to one of the nation's largest public housing complexes, and on the other side of the river from one of the nation's most expensive housing complex. of course, he's big on ending corporate greed and that's going to be obvious today. supporters are very excited to see both aoc and senator bernie sanders. of course, people here don't need a lot of convincing to support the senator, but they say alexandria ocasio-cortez's endorsement certainly helps that. >> gary grummback in queens, we thank you. tulsi gabbard, hillary clinton. the strong reaction today to what clinton said in a new interview. what clinton said in a new interview. as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks i can get. line? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. that's a lot of words.

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fierce, new backlash from 2020 candidate and congresswoman tulsi gabbard to comments by hillary clinton. listen to this, gabbard firing off a series of tweets calling clinton the queen of warmongers and claiming she is behind a quote concerted campaign to destroy my reputation, this in response to what clinton said about her expectations for president trump's backers in an apparent reference to gabbard. >> they're also going to do third party again. and i'm not making any predictions, but i think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the democratic

primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. she's a favorite of the russians. they have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far, and that's assuming jill stein will give it up, which she might not, because she's also a russian asset. >> agent, yeah. >> yeah, he's a russian asset, i mean, totally. >> joining me now, zerlina maxwell, with sirius xm and republican strategist rick tyler, both msnbc political analysts. zerli zerlina, you worked for clinton's 2016 campaign, so i have to start with you. this back-and-forth drawing strong reactions on both sides, some democrats speaking out in defense of gabbard. did clinton go too far? should she be sharing her views on the democratic candidates? >> i think she didn't go far enough and we have to decide whether or not we'll listen to hillary clinton, who lived through this in 2016, or whether or not we're going to do what we did in 2016, is decide that what

she's saying is irrelevant because of how we feel personally about her, and i think that that would be a mistake. in 2016, anchors literally laughed at hillary clinton when she said it was russia. robby mook went on television and said, it was russia that was hacking our emails and releasing them on wikileaks. we were laughed at. i would like everyone to listen to us now because i on the campaign had that red banner over my email that said, "government hackers are trying to infiltrate your account." so, this is a real warning. and i think that we would be smart to listen before it's too late. >> rick, what's your take on clinton's main point, that president trump's backers will try to splinter the vote to get them across the finish line? >> well, i wouldn't put anything past trump to try to get across the finish line, but i think zerlina has a good point. i mean, stein was a real problem in the 2016 campaign, and when you have independents that are running, and you know, obviously, they would be in trump's interests to have a third party run who would draw

democratic votes away from the democratic candidate. and if the russians, who trump seems to be doing everything pro putin, why wouldn't you have a third party? i don't know that tulsi gabbard is the candidate. she didn't mention -- didn't seem like she mentioned her by name, right? i mean, so i don't know what kind of information they have, but it's kind of interesting. i think we should pay attention to it. >> yeah, she did not mention her by name, but when asked about it, a rep for clinton said if the nesting doll fits. rick, i'd like to shift topics for a minute but stick to clinton. the clinton email investigation back in the headlines today with the state department telling congress its internal probe found, quote, no deliberate mishandling of classified information after reviewing roughly 33,000 emails. the department is citing 38 current and former employees for security violations, but now that it's over, is it time for the republicans to put this to rest? >> look, i think we should have put this to rest a long time ago. i mean, it was clear, and now the state department has confirmed that there was no --

what they would call systematic mishandling of classified information. that would mean there was a deliberate attempt by the secretary and her employees to keep things classified information, not keeping them secure or keeping them away from the state department. that's been now thoroughly, thoroughly, and thoroughly done. it was -- you know, they handled -- there was a few mishandling, but there was no systematic mishandling of email. and i think we could just, as bernie says, you know, let's quit talking about your damn emails. >> zerlina, meanwhile, let's talk about the 2020 candidates. they're out with some critical cash-on-hand numbers. the biden campaign in fifth place there with less than $9 million. politico's summing up the significance for biden with the headline "they've got no margin for error. biden cash crunch raises alarms." how serious is this for the biden campaign? >> fund-raising is the number one factor in terms of success as a campaign. so, this is very concerning, not

just because his fund-raising is low, but his burn rate is higher than any of the other candidates. that means he's spending more money than he's taking in, and at this stage in the campaign, when he is showing up at debates and pretty much delivering mediocre performances, it doesn't exactly invoke enthusiasm around his campaign and you don't see the uptick in fund-raising post a stellar debate performance like you saw after this week's debate with amy klobuchar and others. so, i just think that joe biden has to come up with a little bit of a more persuasive argument as to why he should be the nominee versus all of the other options that we have. and going back to a time before donald trump, to the status quo, is not something that evokes enthusiasm in communities of color, which is the base of the party. so, while he has strong support among african-american voters now, i think that that could change if he doesn't come up with a more compelling message. >> rick, i'd love to ask you

about a new trump campaign rallying cry that just might be puzzling some people. the campaign is now selling t-shirts saying "get over it" on the heels of this line by acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney after a question about a quid pro quo. listen. >> and i have news for everybody -- get over it. there's going to be political influence in foreign policy. >> now, mulvaney later tried to walk his comments back, so why is the trump campaign jumping on that "get over it" line? >> you know, it's just in your face. it's just in your face. look, i think the back of that t-shirt says "walking it back." you know, those t-shirts will be available, you'll see them in discount stores, and we can, after trump is removed from office, i'm sure they'll sell like hot cakes. >> i don't think we should be getting over the president confessing to crimes on national tv, so, no, we will not get over it. we will impeach you, i hope.

>> get on with it. >> yes. >> zerlina maxwell, rick tyler, thanks for being here. >> thanks, alison. the giuliani strategy. why dems may be focusing on the president's personal attorney now more than ever. ttorney now more than ever puberty means personal space. so sports clothes sit around growing odors. that's why we graduated to tide pods sport. finally something more powerful than the funk. tide sport removes even week-old sweat odor. it's got to be tide.

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back with breaking news in the brokered cease-fire in syria. u.s. and kurdish officials confirming to nbc news that turkish-backed militias are continuing the attack on the kurdish military and military equipment is being staged near the border. edward ned price is a former security council spokesman under the obama administration and msnbc national security analyst. ned, thank you for being here. does this breach surprise you at all? >> no, it really doesn't. and i think the turks have been foreshadowing this ever since it was agreed upon with vice president pence and secretary of state pompeo, whereas the american side has called this a cease-fire, and in some ways, have spiked the football far too prematurely in my mind. the turks have been clearer about this. they called this a pause. they said this would be a pause as long as the kurds, too, pause their fighting.

now, there are recriminations on both sides and there is a lot of finger point 'but what we know for sure is that this pause has not helped. even the minimal expectations that we had for this have not been met. >> ned, the kurds are really concerned about land grabs, ethnic cleansing, civil war. are these concerns that they have valid? do you see that as well? >> oh, absolutely. the kurds have every reason to be concerned. i think if you listen to president trump, the kurds should have even more reason to be concerned. he said the other day that turkey had to have this area cleaned out. that doesn't sound like the language of ethnic cleansing and genocide, that is the language of ethnic cleansing and genocide. now, we have to be clear, the turks are the ones who are committing these crimes on the ground. the turks are the ones who have forced 200,000 kurds from their homes in this area of northeastern syria. the turks are the ones who are carrying out the summary executions in some cases. the turks are the ones who are committing these violations, but president trump may not have

legal responsibility for the, what sounds like ethnic cleansing that's going on, but he does have moral responsibility. he green-lighted this turkish operation in a single phone call with president erdogan, undoing, upending the apple cart after years of stability in what had been one of the most stable regions in syria. it's now one of the most violent. it's now one of the most volatile. and for the kurds, it's one of the most dangerous. >> ned, a lot of people are saying this is a victory for russia. did president trump's maneuvers in syria give a win to vladimir putin? >> well, you know, president trump has talked a lot about the deal of the century, and i think he has finally delivered. he has delivered the deal of the century for the turks, for erdogan, for the iranians, for isis, and yes, for russia. i think it's interesting the fact that this so-called pause or cease-fire, whatever you might call it, lasts five days, 120 hours. that five-day period dates from the time it was announced to the time that erdogan can travel to russia, can travel to sochi,

russia, to meet with vladimir putin, where those two leaders can then hash out essentially the future of this region. so, there's no doubt that russia is a big winner here. it's not the only big winner, because of course, isis, iran, and turkey also have some of the spoils. but russian forces have already made their way to some of our previous bases in this region. the russians are gloating and they have every right to do that. >> ned, take a look at this tweet from nbc's richard engel in the war zone. his sources telling him u.s. officials now fear the u.s. could be held responsibilile fo crimes against humidity for ethnic cleansing, by opening the door by syrian kurds. what is the u.s. obligation? because you said they might not necessarily be legally obligated. >> i think this does go back to some of the statements we have heard from president trump, including what sounded very much like an allusion to a turkish green light to commit cleansing. the bottom line is the turks are

committing these crimes. president trump may have green-lighted it and done nothing to stop it, president trump may be the one standing by this sham deal as a pretext to show that he's trying to do something, but the fact of the matter is that were it not for that single phone call earlier this month between president erdogan and president trump, there would still be a relatively stable area of syria where the kurds could maintain some semblance of a homeland, of a safe haven. that is no longer the case. so, i do think that it would be a stretch to say that president trump or any american forces are legally responsible, but certainly, the moral responsibility for this falls on president trump, who failed to do anything, and in fact, gave the green light to his turkish counterpart. >> ned price, thanks for being with us. >> thank you. bernie sanders back on the campaign trail for a rally featuring aoc, and word is, she's going to endorse him, but how much of a boost can he expect from it? muw ch of a boose expect from it humira patients, you inspire us.

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in just moments, the bernie's back rally begins. the rally there in long island city, new york, will be bernie sanders' first rally since a heart attack earlier this month. he'll be joined by congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, who's expected to announce that she's endorsing the vermont senator. we will keep an eye on things there and bring you some of the highlights this hour. good day, everyone. i'm alison morris in for alex witt in new york at msnbc headquarters. welcome to "weekends with alex

witt." it is 1:00 in the east, 10:00 out west. today is the 26th day of the impeachment inquiry, but just within the last 24 hours, there have been some head-spinning developments. let's get you up to date. >> acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney openly saying there was a quid pro quo with ukraine, an admission he is now trying to backtrack. >> the white house is blaming the media, of course, for taking mulvaney's words out of context. even though we heard him say what he said. >> support for impeachment continues to tick upward. 52% of americans now support removing trump from office through impeachment. according to a new gallup poll. that is the highest level of support yet since the ukraine scandal broke. >> energy secretary rick perry saying he won't comply with a subpoena from the house, failing to meet the friday deadline. >> keys this week was the ambassador to the eu, gordon sondland. >> if you read the statement, you will see, clearly, that this guy was really either playing dumb or was lying through his

teeth. >> "the new york times" reports republican senate leader mitch mcconnell now sees an impeachment trial as quote all but inevitable. >> nbc news is confirm thaeg giuliani attempted to secure a visa into the united states for the man who is at the center of the made-up, fake biden/ukraine conspiracy theory. >> nbc news has learned the justice department's review into the origins of the russia investigation is now expanding. we're following all of the breaking news with our reporters and analysts. plus, we're following some breaking news in london. but let's start with hans nichols at the white house with the latest on attorney general bill barr. hans, what is going on there? what do we know? >> reporter: well, this probe into the origins of the 2016 investigation and 2017 investigation into russian influence is apparently expanding. our colleague, ken dilanian and others, are writing this story that takes a look at what the cia and some former intelligence officials think appears to be a more stepped-up investigation.

and they know this because officials are being asked to cooperate, they're being interviewed, according to john brennan. james claper the former dni as well. what we're starting to see the beginning of -- and maybe we're in the middle of it -- is real tension between the department of justice and the intelligence community, even those cia analysts who looked and analyzed the intelligence that led some officials to believe that russia did interfere in the 2016 election. the assessment of the sellas community. some of those cia analysts are being forced to hire attorneys. that's according to three former cia officials, and it gives you an indication that this inquiry is expanding and is moving along pretty quickly. clearly, the president wants this to go on. he's indicated that the attorney general has his full support, and the attorney general has hinted that he thinks that this needs to be expanded and that this really needs to look at the origins of the initial investigations. he's traveled abroad to italy and the uk. so, as of now, it's bigger.

one thing we don't know, we don't know if it's criminal in nature and our colleagues asked the department of justice if this inquiry now has turned into a criminal inquiry and they didn't directly respond. >> hans, thank you. joining me to discuss, msnbc contributor and former assistant special prosecutor for watergate, jill wine-banks, and former prosecutor robinson. jill, i'd like your response to the report. >> the events over the last few days are almost overwhelming to all of americans. the evidence is mounting dramatically about wrongdoing by the president and his administration. the continued stonewalling is a danger to our entire democracy, our constitutional setup of division of powers, when mulvaney calls the president the chief law enforcement officer who can do anything, that is astounding to me. he cannot. he is not in charge of who should be prosecuted, who should

be investigated. and all of the investigations that are going on are just dramatically surprising. rudy giuliani's role in this, the role of the people who have been appointed by trump, and next week we'll hear testimony from more career civil servants. and if the people who are already appointed by the president are telling us very damaging information, i can only imagine that next week would be even more dramatic when people who are honest brokers from the system testify. >> paul, what is the fact that they're expanding this probe say to you? >> i'm really concerned about the expansion and its timing. so, the fact that the department of justice is looking into the source of these investigations really concerns me, especially since they're saying they don't know if they're going to pursue criminal investigation or not. i think this is just obscuring

the fact that so much of this information is coming out, but it also feeds into the power. how is the department being used and why is it doing this investigation at this time right now when so much damning information is coming out more and more, as we're hearing testimony about what the trump administration was doing and what donald trump specifically was doing as he had his finger in a lot of this foreign policy. so, i have real concerns about the department of justice taking the stand. i also have real concerns about the timing of this probe, how it's beginning, and what effect it's going to have to counterbalance all of the negative material and all of the negative testimony, all of the negative evidence that we're hearing every single day out of the half a dozen investigations and hearing probes that are going on right now about donald trump. >> jill, is there any legal basis? do you see a legal basis here for this probe? >> i don't mind that there is a probe going on. anybody's entitled to start a

probe, but this one does appear to be totally and completely based on political need, not based on any evidence. to the extent that all of this has already been investigated, it has been totally debunked. there is no there there. and now you have the attorney general and an assistant attorney general flying around the world trying to drum up, make up information that will debunk the original findings of the entire intelligence community of the united states. the mueller report makes clear that russia did the damage during the 2016 election. russia and russia alone did it. and there were a lot of very strange meetings that looked very bad with the trump administration. and while the mueller report does not conclude that there was cooperation between them, it

does conclude that the russians did the hacking. and so, what's the point of all of this conspiracy theory stuff that it was ukraine? we need to stop that. we need to stop wasting the money of the american people with foreign travel by the attorney general and the assistant attorney general -- or the u.s. attorney who is conducting this investigation and just move on to what is really important, which is what is happening today. the trump administration is trying once again to divert our attention to deny and divert and delay. >> paul, in the article from nbc, our colleagues report that if durham is conducting a criminal investigation, it is no wrongdoing are being examined. the justice department has not detailed any, and a spokeswoman declined to comment for this story. is this normal for the justice department? >> this is not normal. this could have been a legitimate probe, but i question

that legitimacy, given the context of what's going on and what influenced this probe to come at this time. and not just that the probe is taking place, but why is the probe taking place at this time? and we need to be public about it. why is the department of justice leaning forward, being public about their need to investigate what the source of this information is? i would say that it is coming at a time, while all of this information is coming out about what donald trump did, what the administration did. and these are facts. this is evidence that's coming out and being presented to the american public and to those people that are considering the impeachment process. i find the investigation now from the justice department questionable. i have real concerns and i have real questions about how it was initiated for this time right now. why is it beginning right now, right when all of this information is coming out and being made available to the public? to me, that undermines the

legitimacy of the probe and it undermines the legitimacy of the independent investigation authority that the department of justice would normally have. and i have real concerns about what they will turn over. and even if they turn something over, is it going to be used as a balance, or is it going to undermine the information that is already out, that we already know about misbehavior and misconduct that's taking place in the white house right now and has taken place during this presidency? that's a real problem. >> jill, i'd like to ask you about the impeachment inquiry. a very busy week ahead. we have a lot more testimony expected, including the acting ambassador to ukraine. what are you hoping to hear next week? >> i think we will be hearing more of the mountaining evidence that there was a shadow foreign policy that the ambassador yovanovitch was removed because she stood in the way of political corruption, not because she was part of it. she was the one who stood in the

way of giuliani and trump having their way and trying to make up evidence of ukrainian involvement when, as i said earlier, the entire intelligence community of the united states has concluded that russia committed the hacking. it had nothing to do with ukraine. but the president can't let go of it because he doesn't want to look like his election was influenced by the russians, even though it's clear that it was. so, i look forward to ambassador taylor, who was part of the text messaging and the information flow testifying as to what he knew about what giuliani was doing to try to influence things in ukraine. giuliani now appears to have been clearly behind some of the false accusations to get rid of ambassador yovanovitch. and we need to look at that. all of these officials --

lieutenant colonel who is going to testify and all of the others i think will just add to the growing evidence of complicity and corruption that is the trump administration. and we can't be diverted from all of this. every day there is something to change our attention. the announcement by mulvaney about the trump doral hotel is one that we can't let go. that's a serious emoluments constitutional violation, as are all these other things. >> joining me now, laura basset, freelance journalist, and jeff mas mason, white house correspondent for reuters. and jeff, before i get to the day's other headlines -- >> no problem. >> thanks. >> -- and there are several, what is your reaction to the news of barr expanding this review? >> well, i think it's my job as a journalist just to look at that being a big story for the trump folks, for the trump administration. i've enjoyed listening to your other guests talk about their concerns about it. i think for context for your viewers, it's important to

realize that president trump genuinely believes that more needs to be looked at here, and that's why they're doing this probe. i think the questions in terms of its legality and whether or not it's appropriate for it to be expanded are for other people to answer. but the context of, you know, this president believes that he has been mistreated, that he's also been concerned since day one of his presidency, and really, since his election, about any suggestion that his election was not legitimate, and that's really the key point that i think he wants his attorney general to uncover. >> jeff, you were at the press briefing this week when acting chief of staff mick mulvaney acknowledged the president had sought a quid pro quo for providing ukraine with american aid. what was the reaction and what was the mood in the room, if you could describe it for us, when he said that. >> well, number one, it's unusual to have had mick mulvaney briefing us at all and to have a briefing at all in

that room. unfortunately right now it's just not the normal. so, it was nice to be able to press him on this, and he came out to speak first about the g7 decision and then took questions on the other issues. i was surprised that he didn't have an answer more in line with what the president had been saying and what other people in the administration have been saying. he certainly undermined that argument with his answer and then, of course, tried to walk it back several hours later and erroneously tried to blame the media. but it's hard to make that argument when the quotes that you vaid on tape and were live on television. >> laura, politico is reporting that mulvaney is on thin ice. on the flip side, though, we've seen t-shirts from the trump campaign with his "get over it." are there any indication that his names are numbered in the white house in the fallout over that briefing? >> alison, if i'm being honest, i think everyone trump hires, everyone in his cabinet is always on thin ice all the time. there's so much turnover in this administration.

i've never seen it before. but specifically with mulvaney, i mean, he messed up. we know the president is upset about the fact that he basically came out and admitted that these crimes had been committed and later kind of walked it back. the fact that this quote is on the t-shirts? i think that the trump campaign doesn't really know what to do anymore because they can't say we are not corrupt, he's doing corruption out in the open. and so, the only thing they can pivot to now is, so what? and i think that's the essence of the mulvaney quote. i think the fact that they're printing it on a t-shirt doesn't mean he's not going to be fired any day now. >> jeff, any reporting on that? what do we know about mulvaney's standing with the president right now? >> well, a couple things. i think it does seem clear that the president is not happy with how that went, but it was also clear, according to sources that i spoke to, that he had the president's blessing to do that briefing. clearly, we also have the fact that the white house counsel's office has distanced itself from mick mulvaney. but i think laura's right. the chief of staff is not the only staff member who is on thin ice with president trump.

he's been in this role for 10, 11 months now, and still has the acting title. so, president trump likes having the flexibility of being able to say, okay, you're done any time. that said, despite this mistake on mick mulvaney's part on friday, the acting chief of staff, he has worked pretty well with the president. he has not tried, as some of his predecessors have tried to do, to control the president. he's not tried to reduce his tweeting or anything like that. so, they have gotten along pretty well up until now. >> what about the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani? some new reporting from nbc says that he tried to secure a visa from the state department for ousted ukraine prosecutor viktor shokin. this is in the deposition of diplomat george kent, according to two people familiar with the testimony. jeff, what do you make of this? >> you know, it just sort of underscores the fact that giuliani has been at the center of all of this. he's been at the center of the efforts by the administration to look into ukraine.

all of the testimony in the last week or two has underscored the fact that he was part of this shadow diplomacy that career officials have objected to. so, i think it's just one more example of that. >> all right, thank you so much to my panel. we've got hans nichols, jill wine-banks, paul henderson as well as laura basset and jeff mason. thank you all so much. >> thank you. a pretty incredible sight in london today. hundreds of thousands protesting during the parliamentary debate on the latest brexit deal. nbc's steve patterson spoke with anti-brexit demonstrators in the streets of london today. >> i think people have been given a lot of misinformation. >> i think the reasons that people voted against it were not based on the truth, and i think that it was the wrong time to call a vote whether to leave or to say because when people voted against, they were expressing their frustration about other things that were going on. >> everyone was clouded with

misinformation and misunderstanding, really, so it was hardly democratic. >> prime minister boris johnson received a blow to his latest attempt to pass a deal, but he still has a chance to push his bill through. here's what happened. members of parliament did not vote on brexit deal itself, but for the letwin amendment, which requires the prime minister seeks a delay from the european union. now let's go to the aforementioned steve patterson in london, covering this all day. run us through what happened here and where does parliament go next? >> reporter: as for what happened, you basically mentioned it. this is a huge blow to boris johnson, his campaign, to get a brexit deal done today. he's essentially -- this is a guy that has staked his political career on having it done by halloween. that now is in jeopardy because of exactly what happened today. the parliament was set up for a special session on a weekend. that hasn't happened in my lifetime in nearly the last 40 years to vote yes or no on this brexit deal from boris johnson.

instead, they vote for an amendment, which in a way circumvents this decisive action on johnson's vote. in essence, it says you need to have everything all set up legally, all your ducks in a row before we make that decisive action, so there's no squelching on the deal later. that, in effect, makes sure that johnson now has to go back to the european union to ask for an extension on that halloween deadline. he does not at all want to do that. he said he would rather die in a ditch than have that happen. but in essence, in a way, it is happening. here's though, what he said about negotiating that delay, negotiating that extension. he says he won't do it. listen to what he said in parliament. >> i will not negotiate a delay with the eu. further delay will be bad for this country, bad for our european union and bad for democracy.

>> the people who are outside this building right now will be heard, and they deserve the final say along with millions across the country. so, the most urgent thing right now, mr. speaker, is that the prime minister complies with the law. >> there is a clear expression from this house that we cannot crash out on the 31st of october. mr. speaker, i want to ask you what we can do to make sure that the prime minister respects the law of the land. >> reporter: now, i mentioned the word, and i emphasized the word negotiate, because the actual loss is that he just has to send a letter to the european union. he doesn't have to actually follow through with it. so, what happens next is sort of up in the air. the speaker will decide what happens heading into the week on monday. it may be up for another vote. this may go to a second referendum, in other words, a vote with the people. it may go to another election in parliament. we'll have to just wait and see, as we do with just about

everything with brexit, as we have seen over the years and years and years now, moving on into today. >> what a day in the uk. nbc's steve patterson in london. thank you. inside the syria decision. where it came from, what it means for russia, and the call from the acting chief of staff to get over it when it comes to ukraine. it comes to ukraine.

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but i didn't know it was going to work out this quickly. i didn't know it would work out this well. it's a great day for the united states. it's a great day for kuturkey. it's really a great day for civilization. it's a great day for civilization. >> breaking news, president trump celebrating the u.s.-brokered deal with turkey as a great day for civilization just days' but right now that cease-fire isn't holding. nbc news has confirmed that fighting is still happening in the kurdish territory with turkish-backed militias actively engagie ining kurdish forces. brett mcgurk is former envoy for the global coalition to defeat isis and msnbc senior foreign affairs analyst and larry pfiefer, former chief of staff to the cia during the bush administration and former senior director of the white house situation room during the obama administration. brett, let me start with you. are you surprised that the cease-fire isn't holding? >> well, no. i think what the cease-fire is, is basically, it orders all the,

what we call the syrian democratic forces, to leave a besieged area and for turkish-backed opposition forces, which are heavily infiltrated with extremists, committing war crimes and other atrocities, to move in. so it's really not that great a deal. in a cascading crisis like this with americans in harm's way in particular, you want to try to buy time, so there's merit for the administration to try to buy time, but we have a long way to go. this will be decided on tuesday when erdogan meets with putin in sochi, in russia. and trump at this point is pretty much a bystander. >> brett, you heard the president celebrating that u.s.-brokered cease-fire, but in foreign policy circles, the deal is being framed as a gift to syria and russia. is that, in fact, the case? >> well, again, look, the fact of the matter here is over the last ten months, president trump announced that he wanted out of syria in december. he arbitrarily cut what was a small force in half. that basically reduced all of our significant leverage, and then on a call with president erdogan on october 6th, he announced again that we're

leaving, and americans are evacuating our bases, bombing them as we leave or handing them over to the russians. and putin and erdogan will meet on tuesday, and that's really the main show in town. so i think that assessment is quite accurate. >> larry, who would ordinarily be advising the president ahead of decisions like this? give us a sense of how the administration might have gotten to this deal. >> so, in a normal administration, you have an interagency process where experts, guys like brett mcgurk or people like fiona hill on the russian side, people who are steeped in expertise, these individuals are developing policy options that work their way up through in an interagency process, ultimately to an nsc meeting with the president. that would include the secretary of defense, secretary of state, national security adviser, and other vested chairmen of the joint chiefs, other vested members of his administration. they would lay out a handful of options. you have the intel community in

the room with the director of national intelligence, the director of cia, and they're laying out the consequences of the different -- or the potential consequences of all of the different options being laid out for the president. and then the president is then to make a decision that those in the room then go and implement. so, this looks far from normal. or we have a case where the president had to have clearly disregarded the options and not understood the full consequences of the decision he ultimately took on. >> president trump is saying isis fighters are double secured by the kurds in turkey. he also says some european nations are willing to take the isis fighters that came from their nations. brett, is this situation as controlled as the president makes it seem? and what are the events going on right now in syria really mean for the terror group? >> well, that's a key point. i mean, why are we in syria? we're in syria because this was the isis caliphate. these areas, this was the isis caliphate where major terrorist

attacks are being planned against us, against europe and carried out in europe. and that is why we're here. and as this situation unravels and it has really begun to unravel, and what's significant about that, you can see americans evacuating our bases, as i mentioned, handing them to russians or bombing them as we leave. and the force we've built of 60,000 syrians, a majority arab force, is now under significant threat. so, what's likely to happen is a vacuum is going to open up, which will be filled by the assad regime, iran, turkish-backed opposition forces who are heavily interwoven with extremist actors, and isis. so, we are likely to see a reconstitution of isis networks, and that threat is likely to blow back on us and our partners, so it's a very serious situation. we do not have enough compassion in the country now to significantly deal with it, with less than 1,000 people in the country. and again, the main power brokers now are erdogan, putin, and assad. so, it's serious and we still have americans on the ground in syria at this hour and i think

we have to be thinking about them as well. we want to make sure they're safe, they consolidate their positions, and ultimately, they can get out of syria safely. >> larry, take a listen to what president trump had to say about turkey's president erdogan following the cease-fire agreement. here it is. >> i just want to thank and congratulate president erdogan. he's a friend of mine, and i'm glad we didn't have a problem, because frankly, he's a hell of a leader and he's a tough man. he's a strong man, and he did the right thing. and i really appreciate it. and i will appreciate it in the future. >> what goes through your head when you hear the president talk that way about erdogan? and do you think he should still host erdogan at the white house next month? >> when i hear the president talk, i think the key words there were strong man. take the space out between strong and man, you have the president admiring, again, another authoritarian figure. the congratulations to erdogan are congratulations for erdogan

being able to implement fully the policy he's been wanting to implement for a number of years. should he host him here in washington, i think that would send a terrible message to other leaders in the world, particularly to organizations that are trying to establish democratic rule or fighting against other authoritarian leaders. i would recommend against it. >> all right, larry, brett. thank you both pore being here today. >> thank you. >> thank you. growing divide. the signs some republicans are starting to distance themselves from the president when he may need their support the most. ay need their support the most.

look, i fought with people on the air about is there a quid pro quo and does this rise to the level of impeachment? i now believe that it does. >> we're not supposed to use government power and prestige for political gain. >> is that an impeachable offense? >> that's something i really can't answer. >> that was former ohio governor john kasich and florida congressman francis rooney, both republicans, the two escalating concerns about president trump after a flood of developments on

ukraine, syria, and the g7 site. and moments ago, congressman rooney announced he will not be seeking re-election. joining me now, peter emerson. he worked in three democratic administrations, republican strategist rina shah, and conservative commentator ashley pratt, an nbc think contributor. let's start with congressman rooney, who is not saying he is for impeachment or for an impeachment inquiry, but he is saying he's thinking about impeachment. and now we have this retirement news. what do you make of all that? >> well, yesterday i heard congressman rooney's interview with npr, and it was also very much the same. like you said, he did not come out saying i want impeachment, i want it now. he expressed great concern for acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney's comments and also gave cover there, saying that i like mick as a person, i've worked with him in the past, he's done great things. i think what we need to really look at, though, here, is that how very convenient for this republican who criticized the administration yesterday to today announce that he's no longer seeking re-election.

we knew this. we knew his district went for trump wholeheartedly, but also that he has broken ranks with trump before on things like climate change. so, this is mystifying, i think, alison, in this moment, because what are other republicans to do? yesterday it felt like maybe others would follow. today it seems like, again, they're lacking the moral courage to do the right thing and criticize the administration, and they can only do it if they're no longer coming back to congress. >> ashley, what's your take on this? >> well, what's interesting is since senator flake's retirement, we have seen no one carry that mantle of actually calling on the president. and i think it's really spineless of the republican party at this point to see all of the things that have happened since his election and to not come out and criticize him and to say, yes, we need to investigate further into all of these things. and we're seeing some republicans say, yes, let's move the inquiry forward, but none of them saying that this behavior is, you know, impeachable, which it is. and i think at this point, again, senator flake has written multiple op eds on it at this

point, saying let's maintain the integrity of the party, and that is no longer happening. and again, this is what happens. they retire, they don't run for re-election. if you cross trump, you realize that your re-election may not happen. but we need those members of congress to stand up to him within the republican party, and that is just not happening, which is creating this very dangerous space where no one is calling him out within his own party and it needs to start happening. and if it doesn't, this is, you know, something we're going to continue to see, all of this bad and inappropriate behavior that is definitely impeachable. >> peter, what about kasich saying he's for impeachment? how are democrats reading those kinds of shifts? >> well, after a week in washington talking to democratic leaders as well as some republican friends of mine, i think shift may be too strong a word. i think crack -- >> okay, fair. >> a little crack in the wall is a more accurate description. >> okay. >> simply because we know, as my colleagues just pointed out so accurately, trump has created a

fairly impregnable wall. there may be a few cracks right now, but quite frankly, at the end of the day, until the voters decide that they're being scammed and lied to and cheated and their very democracy is at stake, i don't think anything's going to change, and trump could well get away with all that he's now so transparently saying he's going to do. >> ashley, according to the "washington post," a senior house republican described a growing sense among a quiet group of republicans that the president's playing with fire, taking their loyalty for granted as they're forced to defend the indefensible. how do you interpret that? >> well, one of the words there that's important is quiet, right? yes, it's great that this is being reported on, but where are all of these 20 or so members who are feeling this way? i would really love for them to come forward jointly and know that they have cover among one another. but i think what's really interesting here is that polling is showing among a growing majority of americans, i think current polling is at 51%, believe that the president should be impeached and removed

from office. that is something that they really are going to have to contend with when they go back to their districts and they're holding these town hall meetings. you know, a few months ago, impeachment wasn't something that was discussed on the campaign trail. it was considered political poison to discuss in some of these swing districts. but now it's very popular because people are starting to pay attention and pick up on the fact that this administration is acting in some ways very lawlessly. so, i do think they need to pay attention to polling. these swing districts will be telling. and the other telling fact is that six in ten suburban women in those swing districts right now, according to fox news polling, are actually feeling that the president should be impeached or removed from office. and that's a fox news poll. so, they should be heeding those warnings and realize that the very people who elected trump and turned the tide for him in 2016, who voted democrat in 2018, are very willing to do that again in 2020. >> peter, i'd love to ask you about former vp joe biden.

his wife jill talking about president trump's attacks this morning. listen to that. >> so when joe and i decided to get into this race, we knew it wouldn't be pretty, and we knew, you know, donald trump would throw everything he had at us, and then that's what he's really started to do. but you know, what's happening right now really is -- just isn't a matter of civility or decency. our constitution really is on the line and our nation's character is on the line. beneath the rhetoric is a truth that can't be rewritten. he doesn't want to run against joe biden. >>peter, what's your reaction? >> well, i have empathy, but at the end of the day, we're watching the democrats eat their young ones again. hillary clinton attacking tulsi gabbard, joe kennedy running against a venerable and wonderful senator in

massachusetts. it's what democrats do. so, although i agree with my colleagues about the possibility of a majority wanting impeachment, more women shifting against trump, the reality is, it's an electoral system, so wherever we have to see those voters turning out may determine the election while, all the while, democrats are beginning to now bash each other in a very serious way. >> peter emerson, rina shaw and ashley pratte, thank you for being here. >> thank you. bernie's back and you recognize that man, michael moore. bernie's first big rally since a heart attack took him off the trail. the big endorsement he's expected to pick up today and how it could boost his campaign. how it could boost his campaign. of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off.

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well, a live look now. senator bernie sanders is about to take the stage at his first campaign rally since he had a heart attack almost three weeks ago. joining the vermont senator will be congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, who is expected to endorse sanders for president at today's rally. nbc's shaq brewster is on the ground there in queens. hey, there, shaq! how big of a deal is this endorsement for sanders? >> reporter: this is a pretty big deal. and the campaign has been hyping this rally up since last week. this is, of course, the first time we will see senator sanders since he had that heart attack about three weeks ago. we saw him on the debate stage, but in terms of the campaign trail, this is the first time we'll see him. i got to speak to both senator sanders and congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez about this endorsement that will

happen on stage in just a few minutes. listen to what they just told me. >> for me, it wasn't even about helping the senator. it was a moment of clarity, i think, for me personally, in saying, what role do i want to play, and i want to be a part of a mass movement. it was less about political, you know, being overly politically calculating, and it was more about the authenticity and clarity of that moment. >> reporter: and this endorsement, of course, came as senator sanders was in the hospital recovering from that heart attack. i'm told alexandria ocasio-cortez called him while he was recovering, doubled down her support. they, of course, met in vermont late last month, late september. so, this has been in the works for some time. i asked alexandria ocasio-cortez, does this mean that it's an anti-warren thing? is this against warren? you didn't choose her. she said, no, she understands that warren is bringing about good ideas to the campaign. she likes her value on this campaign trail, but aoc is

someone who volunteered for senator sanders back in 2016, so there is some connection there, and she's staying with this candidate, feeling the bern still, as i don't know if you see a couple thousand people behind me are as well. >> pretty big crowd, shaq brewster, with bernie and aoc across the river in nyc. always great to see you, my friend. >> reporter: likewise. a picture is worth a thousand words. the former white house photographer for president barack obama gives me his take on this viral picture of nancy pelosi and president trump as well as what it was like to photograph some of the obamas' most personal moments. obamas' most personal moments. i'm ládeia, and there's more to me than hiv.

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trump. documenting the president in tough moments, i don't are thoughts on this picture? >> a telling picture. look at pelosi and the body language of the people around the table. it says a lot. >> let's get to your work now. here's one i think everybody remembers. look at this photo. what happened here? >> that's the -- easter egg roll where they're reading "where the wild things are." always very animated and just -- he loved that story and told it every easter egg roll. >> just fantastic. so nice to capture a light moment. what was it like taking this photo of president obama, his family and hundreds of people marching across the edmund pettus bridge? sorry. one we skipped. this is important. a photo with so much energy and happiness. tell us what's happening in this and we'll get to the bridge next. >> u.s. national women's soccer

team that decided to do a selfie in the east room after doing an event. >> you could see how happy they are there. with the president. what was it like taking this photo? we mentioned it. president obama his family and look at all of those people marching across the bridge in selma, alabama. what an incredible photo. >> thank you. incredible day. watch the first african-american president on the 50th anniversary of the march on selma, you know, his speech that day. usually when i take pictures i'm listening half the time, taking pictures the rest of the time. in that day in particular, a lot of listening to that speech. >> is it hard sometimes to separate yourself from the moment when you were in and incredible moment like that, taking a photo, to sometimes just find yourselves pausing, stopping from your work? you're so moved by it or it's so meaningful to you? >> absolutely. that particular picture was one

of those -- that particular day was one of those instances where you're pinching yourself saying, this is a really, a really special moment. remember to take pictures but also remember to absorb it. >> i know that there are moving moments like that and devastating moments. you captured this photo of president obama in the time after the shooting of the emmanuel were methodist episcopal church in south carolina. what was that like for you? >> the president had in about the span of 20 minutes was notified that the man was caught and they had to devise a statement, a response and this picture, waiting to go speak to the press about it. in that 20 minutes he, you know, crafted up a response that told the people, you know, this is a senseless crime. gun violence is bad, but he also had to talk about race relations and he just really -- he really

captured the essence of the problem and spoke to the american people in a very powerful way. >> this next photo is a special one. brought your family into the oval office to meet the president. what was that like? >> the thrill of a lifetime for my kids. this is my departure photo january 12, 2017. you know, he actually met them when they were very little for the first easter egg roll of the obama white house, and then got to see is them it again before he left office. you know, just really special. >> was it odd being on the other side of the camera for that one? >> i hate being in front of the camera. kind of like right now. >> you're doing fantastic. we love having you. could you sum up or share some of your experience what it was like being with this family? you got a glimpse of them many of us will never have the chance to. how would you describe the obamas and your time with them? >> the one word is "authentic." you know?

in my book i talk about how being authentic you have to, you know, you can't fake being nice. you can't fake being concerned. you can't fake, or you can, but those things don't last. people see you for who you really are. so when people meet them, they understand that they are really the real deal. >> lawrence jackson, the book is "yes, we did." thanks for sharing memories and incredible photos. >> thank you very much. case closed. the investigation into hillary clinton's emails filly wrapping up. why is the president using it as a talking point? that's ahead. a talking point? that's ahead. sents the underdo. these shelter dogs still love unconditionally. they're just hoping to find their human, who does too. to help, subaru is establishing national make a dog's day to ask you to please consider adopting an underdog,

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we are approaching top of the hour meaning i'm out of time. up next, my colleague kendis gibson. take it away. >> enjoy the rest of your saturday. good day. i'm kendis gibson at world headquarters in new york. a lot of news this saturday. signs of cracks in trump's line of defense. sounding the alarm over the white house's handling of the impeachment inquire and syria. a strong review from senate majority leader mitch mcconnell as the syrian cease-fire hangs in the balance and new efforts rudy giuliani mailed for a visa to the ukrainian official who promised dirt against joe biden. and on the ground, bernie sanders revving um his campaign

yet