we're going it be reading axios here in a bit. you can sign up at signup.axios.com. >> that does it for us. "morning joe" starts right now. i was involved with the process by which the money was held up temporarily, okay. three issues for that. the corruption in the country, whether or not other countries, participating in the support of the ukraine, and whether or not they were cooperating in an ongoing investigation with our department of justice. here's what i said, i'll say it again, and hopefully people will listen this time. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. okay. three issues for that. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. >> wow. >> what i find so remarkable is when these people come out and lie on national television, they lie through their teeth, they then are arrogant about it and say hope they listen next time. no, we heard you the first time and you lied about it the second time. but this happens again. and it's just like when mulvaney

went in front of them the first time, the press corps the first time, this happens all the time, no, it never happens. >> and get over it. >> get over it. so this is what i love about the incompetence surrounding the white house, and actually the re-election campaign. the guy who actually made a statement in the course of moving donald trump a lot closer to being impeached, that guy in his ignorant words get over it, now being sold as t-shirts. this is like -- so let me get this straight. you're selling the evidence that's going to lead you to impeachment? they even make money off of that? i understand your foolishness with doral that you woke up and smelled the cat food on that one that it was unconstitutional and

it was going to get you impeached. thank god we don't have to explain to boris johnson and all the bedbugs that was going to get -- macron wouldn't like the bedbugs. >> so grossed out. >> very well put together. but those doral bedbugs are killers especially in the summer. i'm feeling a little itchy right now. but anyway, they're arrogant about their stupidity and they're also arrogant and trying to market off the evidence that's going to lead to donald trump being impeached. only the third president in the history of the united states to be impeached. >> on thursday there were three reasons why the white house held up aid to ukraine. by sunday, as you saw, it was down to two. missing link, of course, when mick mulvaney openly acknowledged last week a quid pro quo. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, october 21st. with us we have white house reporter for "the associated press" jonathan lemire.

political writer for "the new york times," nick confessore. former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department elise jordan. and nbc news correspondent covering national security and intelligence, ken dilanian. >> jonathan lemire, let's start by talking about the new york yankees failing to make the world series for this entire decade, the first decade as you pointed out since 100 years ago in the 19 teens. we could talk about that. but also with that just as a backdrop to everything we do for the next several weeks. talk about the level of concern, the level of despair inside the white house with mulvaney admitting publicly the quid pro quo. rudy giuliani's ongoing troubles, his tangled business relationships that seem to be -- he's looking for love nault wro in all the wrong places. talk about the toxic stew this is creating and the concern

inside the white house about how this could lead to donald trump's impeachment and more. >> first, joe, on the yankees, the most important news of the morning, you're right, this is the first decade since the 19 teens in which they did not appear in the world series, not even appear in the world series. they spent $2 billion on players this decade without appearing in the world series. they have now gone 18 of the last 19 seasons without winning a world series. >> ouch. >> and there's this stat. they -- >> look at lemire. >> i brought statistics with me. >> brought receipts. >> i see that. >> and the decade that just ended for 19 -- from 2010 to 2019, they had the winningest record in the regular season but yet did not make a single world series, the first team in major league baseball history to do that. >> i hate when that happens. >> the heart breaks. the heart breaks for the yankees and their fans. think we are on tap for a great world series. that should be a lot of fun.

in terms of the white house, there is rising angst in the building on a few different issues. the acting chief of staff's disastrous news conference, that's how it's being viewed in every corner of trump's world, you know, is still having ramifications now. they've had to clean up -- they've had to reverse themselves on g7 as you saw. no longer having it at the president's golf course in doral just outside of miami, florida. the quid pro quo issue which mulvaney laid out on thursday, tried to clean up in a statement later in that day, tried again over the weekend in the sunday show appearances, you know, has led a lot of people in the trump white house wondering if perhaps he will not be long for his job. we saw immediately the personal attorney jay sekulow distance from what mulvaney said. there have been people in the building who already were unhappy with how mulvaney had been handling the impeachment inquiry, according to our

reporting, and this has just thrown gasoline on the fire pushing for him to be removed. but people we talked to over the weekend said that mulvaney's job for now is safe not because the president is happy with him, he sent, but because th isn't, but they don't have any replacements. this white house has struggled to hire and retain talented white house officials, people to work in the administration. there's no short list now. there's no sense that mulvaney is going to lose his job anytime soon. >> well, i think this -- from the patterns that we've seen, one can deduce that this white house operates on vacancies. same with the state department. the more jobs that are not filled, the more that void trump can fill on his own. here's more from mick mulvaney on fox news sunday trying to walk back his remarks from last week about the quid pro quo arguing that reporters -- actually reporters had misinterpreted his comments. >> why did you say in that

briefing that president trump had ordered a quid pro quo -- quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depend on investigating the democrats? why'd you say that. >> that's what people said that i said. here's what i said, i'll say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. we've talked about this at some length. the first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. president was also concerned about whether or not other nations, specifically european nations, were helping with foreign aid to the ukraine was well. i then did mention that the president in past had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc server. he mentioned it to other people publicly. he even mentioned it to president zelensky in the phone call. but it wasn't connected to the aid, and that's where i think people got sidetracked this weekend in the press conference. there's is not a quid pro quo. >> you described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. >> reporters will use their language all the time.

my lang wage never said quid pro quo. i never stled was a quid pro quo because there isn't. chris, you've been in these briefings, you know how back and forth it have, how rapid fire it is. look to the facts on the ground, things you can certify and what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. >> but you -- >> so that was him yesterday. here again is what mulvaney said very clearly on thursday. >> did he also mention to me in the past that the corruption related to the dnc serve center absolutely, no question about that. but that's it. that's why we held up the money. >> i was involved with the process by which the money was held up temporarily, okay. three issues for that. the corruption in the country, whether or not other countries were participating in the support of the ukraine, and whether or not they were cooperating in and ongoing investigation with our department of justice. that's completely legitimate. >> so of course, elise, i mean, there's rank stupidity here.

i don't know whether mick mulvaney is the one that is so stupid or whether he believes that donald trump supporters are so stupid that if he just keeps lying, talks fast enough he thinks the roobs in his mind will let it pass. but he set a couple things of course in the press conference on thursday, said it happens all the time. no, it does not happen all the time. it's, in fact, that's a lie. he was called out on the lie. he was so humiliated with the lie he didn't even report it on sunday. then on sunday i found it fascinating oh, we're talking about the serve, he are oh, trade, we don't look at the serve, everybody's looking at the dnc server, right? actually, no. only conspiracy theorists are talking you about a dnc server being hidden mysteriously somewhere by an oligarch in ukraine.

nobody believes that to be the truth. that is a conspiracy theory and yet he is saying, that's the quid pro quo. this -- this conspiracy theory that was disproven by conservatives and liberals a very long time ago. >> joe, it's just been really disappointing to watch mick mulvaney behaving the way that he is. i previously thought very highly of him and his character and his intentions in public policy. this has just been a really disappointing episode where i am not sure what he's doing following these conspiracy theories. i thought he was a more serious-minded man and a more honest man. and it just, frankly, is disappointing to watch him swept up in -- >> elise, i can ask you, what's he doing? why is he doing this?

there can be no position worth this. he supposedly was a small government conservative. he's now proudly serving with the biggest-spending republican in the history of this republic or aniry publy republic, digesbt ever, biggest debt. the trade war is expanding. the number of illegal immigrants caught on the border far beyond where they ever were under barack obama. >> there's a really disappointing one-word answer and it's called power. proximity to power and what people are willing to give up to stay close to the power. even in an acting capacity, which i would add how long is that acting title? is he ever even going to get a -- get made the official chief of staff? you hear from people who have worked in this white house that jared kushner is the de facto chief of staff and i can't imagine why it is worth it for

mick mulvaney to stick around and deface himself like this when you've got jared kushner in the wings. jared kushner calling the shots. >> yeah. well -- >> it is a debasing is a great example of it. he's debased himself. >> and in a big way. >> and when donald trump leaves town, which i think is going to be sooner rather than later after the next election, mick mulvaney will find himself like so many other trump employees, he won't be able to find a job around town because he's humiliated himself. he's proven himself to be a liar time and time again. he's proven he'll do anything. >> yeah. >> anything just to have the spotlight on him for a couple of seconds. there is such a sleaze factor. and it's gone back to what rick wilson has always said, anything trump temps dies. that extends to reputations of people that work for him. >> let's talk about why this matters on the world stage in

terms of our national security. ken dilanian, after we get over the shock of the blatantsy, let's talk about the words he said about holding up the aid. first of all, what's the chief of staff doing in that position? it appears he was heavily involved in this. it appears from this sort of backtrack and initial blurt on his part that there must be so much on the record about this that they're trying to muddy the message. in terms of what we know, why does this matter in terms of our national security? >> well, in terms of why mick mulvaney knows so much about it, it appears that it's also because he's the head of omb, office of management and budget, they were the key figures in withholding this aid that had been approved by the defense department, appropriated by congress. people in defense and state were puzzled about why this aid to ukraine was being held up for so

long. but in terms of how our allies are viewing this, i'm talking to against sources from western governments, you know, on the one hand are they terribly surprised? no, they've known that donald trump is an incredibly transactional figure. that's always been the book on donald trump that i've heard from foreign officials since the beginning of this presidency. but this takes it to another level. and ar and, you know, when you have mick mulvaney acknowledging there was a quid pro quo, it also raises the question how it was that the justice department closed this case without ever opening an investigation when the whistleblower made essentially a criminal referral over to doj. they only looked at the question wlf the of whether there was a campaign finance crime. people are looking at this saying this was bribery or extortion. ukraine badly needed this military aid. they're in a war with russia and they knew that the white house was asking for certain things from them in exchange for the

aid or that if they didn't do it the aid would be held up. i mean, in this conversation with donald trump and the ukrainian president, they mentioned javelin missiles, a very sophisticated web that the ukrainians wanted to deter russian tanks. and in the next breath donald trump talks about the investigation. it sends a horrible message not only to allies but companies on fence about whether they want to work with the united states. >> but, mika, of course after they asked for the missiles, of course the president said but i'm going to need you do something for us, okay. >> we all know. >> and then what we found is in the subsequent weeks after reading those transcripts, we, of course, saw the text messages that were going on between sondland and the other key players there talking about how they needed an investigation into biden's son if they were going to even have a meeting. and of course then you have mulvaney admitting publicly, yes, in fact there is a quid pro quo. we find out from sondland that

he writes back that there was no quid pro quo, only talking -- only after talking to the president of the united states and then telling congress, he could not -- he could not tell them that the president was telling the truth. >> so this is why for democrats it may be so important to go through the process of impeachment and the process of asking questions and the process of spelling it out. because this is a trump special in terms of muddling the truth. they realize they've been caught with their hands in the cookie jar, so they'll say of course you have to put your hand in the cookie jar and of course you have to steal the cookie and eat it. and you can see trump supporters across the country saying it was joe biden who was corrupt if the was joe biden first. the president was doing what he should do, investigating corruption. and they're going to take that message and make it a trump special. >> but, again -- >> a big sblie thatlie. >> that's a lie. >> i know.

"the wall street journal" said on the front page maybe a month ago that that was a discredited authorr theory. it's a discredited theory that biden did anything to get heat off of hunter. hunter should have never been over there. that's something that joe biden's going to have to deal with in his political yecareer. but on other side, donald trump does not get out of trouble for doing something -- for basically committing extortion against a democratic ally who's been being invaded by russia and vladimir putin. he doesn't get out of the courtroom by accusing somebody else. he's the one in trouble here. >> following widespread bipartisan criticism and maybe republicans will learn something from this, president trump announced on saturday that next year's g7 summit will no longer be held at his doral resort in florida. republicans had an impact. the announcement came in a series of tweets where the president wrote in part, i thought i was doing something

very good for our country. no, people don't like bedbugs. by using our trump national doral in miami for hosting the g7 -- >> okay. so first of all, we're going to read through these here. >> but he's advertising, i'm not reading, he's advertising. >> this is what i'm going to say -- >> unless i mentioned bedbugs. >> it shows just how corrupt this man is as president of the united states. and the corruption, the stealing from american taxpayers, the using of his office to stuff his pockets with corrupt dollars, it's all laid out. listen to this advertisement. in a presidential tweet which this is the official white house statement, according to the white house. it is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to miami international airport, has tremendous ball rooms and meeting rooms, and each delegation would have had its own 50 to 70-unit building,

blah, blah, blah, it goes on. so, you know, nick confessore, he keeps going on talking about how great his own -- >> this is good stuff, though. >> it's amazing stuff, nick. and it's just a straight-out advertisement for a property that he owns. liberals, moderates, conservatives, they all know it's corrupt. and most of them, other than marco rubio, actually said, you know what? that's corrupt, you can't do it, oh and besides, it violates the constitution of the united states. and yet he was going to do it anyway. >> first of all, in any prior administration, obama, bush, that tweet alone from what is his de facto official account for the presidency would have

prompted an ethics investigation. that tweet alone the advertisement. i don't understand how we've gotten to this place where the president thinks that we think that the only hotels that exist in the entire world and the entire country to host these meetings are his hotels. but the u.s. is a very big country. we have many beautiful hotels, great hotels, big hotels. i do feel bad for marco rubio, he got over his skis to defend this and, boy, the president just comes back and cancels it, you know, and admits the whole thing was a problem. but, of course, it was a problem and there some something to think about here. the fact that he did this, this provocation, in the middle of a gathering impeachment storm says something about the president's mentality and the situation that his entire staff is dealing with. when, how do you handle a principal like this? if you're mulvaney, just imagine trying to defend what is

basically indefensible? and the way you to it is basically if you're richard nixon and put the i'm not a crook on a campaign t-shirt, right? that's basically what we're seeing here. admit it, go hard at it, say so what? embas what's the big deal? everyone does it. but of course we tonight. >> here's mick mulvaney what he said yesterday, that the president was surprised at the level of pushback he received for his doral plan. >> at the end of the day, you know, he still considers himself to be in the hospitality business and he saw an opportunity to take the biggest leaders from around the world and he wanted to put on the absolute best show, the best visit that he possibly could and he was very comfortable doing that at doral i think we're all surprised the level of pushback. i think it's the right decision to change, we'll have to find someplace else and my guess is we'll find someplace else that the media won't like either for another reason. >> you say he considers himself in the hospitality business. >> sure. >> he's the president of the united states. >> yeah. >> i mean, you know, jonathan

lemire, i saw the simes, this is really -- where this guy acting like a clown actually -- people around the white house are saying now, well, you know, he doesn't really consider being president of the united states his first job. he still considers himself to be in the hospitality business. i mean, first of all, think about that for a second, if you will, proving once again the guy never wanted -- never wanted to be elected president, never expected to be elected president if the was a branding exercise that went horribly wrong for donald trump and melania and the entire family. all that being said, here you have, once again, mick mulvaney. his stupidity is so insulting either that or his cynicism. you know him. is he stupid? is he cynical? when we're going to -- he didn't

like doral and he talks really quickly like we can't keep up with his words, does that work in south carolina, mick? does that work in the deep south? no. i'm from the deep south and i can actually keep up with your words. he goes, you know, the thing that i really -- so we're going to try to find some where else, we won't go to doral, we'll go to another golf course or another resort which i'm sure the media won't like that either. >> seriously, the stupidity in that. he knows donald trump went out of his way to select his own property, a property that's been failing for several years, a property where they have a bedbug problem, they're having to settle for bedbugs. a property that for the most part because it's in the sumner south florida. i know what sumner south florme

florida is like, it's hot. there are a lot of empty rooms in doral in south florida in the summer. so this would have accrued to the benefit of donald j. trump. hospitality guy i guess we're supposed to call him instead of president of the united states. it's all corrupt, it's unconstitutional, and it is exactly, i read in the "new york times," maybe it was "the washington post" somebody saying this would be like somebody running a country in africa and stealing money out of a gold mine and just putting it in a safe in the presidential office. that's exactly what this is. and it doesn't matter how fast mick mulvaney talks, we can still figure it out. it's really, perhaps, one of the most blatantly corrupt things the most corrupt president in the united states did. >> another statistic, doral in june is usually about 37% acc pansy. >> ouch. >> can i ask you a question?

can i ask you a question? >> wow. >> i'm doing a pie chart here. >> okay. >> so that's i think this is about -- >> that's a little too big. >> this is the subset for the 37%. i'm wondering, of that 37%, how many of that 37% are bedbugs? >> you'll have to do further analysis of that, but it mighting a larmight be a huge percentage. june is the beginning of hurricane season. there are a lot of great hotels in this country, maybe not all of them are so close to the miami international airport where the planes thunder right overhead. it may not always be the most relaxing destination. >> that's a bad location. >> what we saw here is and mulvaney saying the thing about the president viewing himself being in the hospitality business is something that you do hear occasionally in the white house, you just don't hear it on the record on live television on a sunday talk show. [ laughter ] >> you know what, lemire, get over it, okay?

>> okay. this was a moment, though, where republicans did push back. and the final straw was on saturday. mulvaney took some moderate republicans to camp david. he called in in the room because he heard so much criticism about doral including a lot on fox news from usually supportive hosts and surrogates. and a number of the representatives at camp david expressed their misgivings and said it was a hard thing to defend on top of all the other things they have to defend right now, including the syrian decision and the impeachment inquiry. and that that for the president was the final straw, he's decided to move on. they'll announce another site in the coming days and i think we should all brace ourselves he'll cancel from doral and maybe give it to bedminster. >> yes, exactly, bedminster of course we could see rudy walking out before 6:00 p.m. so, you know, that reminds me, we really should talk about republicans who really made a

difference here. >> they did. >> they had the retreat, they were talking to the president, they spoke up. that was so important. >> yeah. >> for their country that they did that. i saw a tom cole quote, peter king, a couple republicans who support trump who said this just isn't right. this is the wrong call. i think that sends a message, should send a message to all republicans that you can have a positive impact on this president and stop him from driving the car over the -- if you're not doing him a favor if you do his marco rubio said last week, oh, i think it's great. i think it's fantastic that the president of the united states is committing an impeachable offense and unconstitutional offense and being corrupt and using his position as the president of the united states to bring the g7 to a failing country club. that doesn't do him good. what does him good is when people like peter king or people like tom cole, and others said, wait, no, no, this just isn't

right. you can't do this. >> so still ahead on "morning joe," mick mulvaney wasn't the only administration official through the over the weekend. there was also secretary of state mike pompeo. he had a lot to say on sunday until he didn't. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on some severe weather. bill. >> good morning. last night during the dallas cowboys/philadelphia eagles game about 15 miles away this tornado dropped from the sky. it's done significant damage. there have been some injuries reported 'not serious injuries and no fatalities, but what a scary scene just north of dallas. this support around university park. and at least four homes have been destroyed. home depot has been destroyed. one elementary school has significant damage and there are at least four schools that have been canceled because of this tornado. so when we get more daylight pictures in, we'll bring them to you. this is what happened in the hit between about 9:00 and 9:15. there's downtown dallas and that's where the tornado was just north of university park.

we had severe weather rolling through other areas too. report of one fatality in arkansas where a tree fell on a home and 83 wind damage reports from southern missouri all the way through areas of northern arkansas. what do we have to deal with today? just fine. atlanta all the way up through areas of the northeast, pretty typical fall day, cool in the morning, sunshine in the afternoon. but where we have to deal with severe storms will be in the south as we go from houston to areas just south of shieff port all the way through louisiana, mississippi up to memphis. this could have strong winds as we go throughout the day today. tomorrow one area from central south carolina, ray laleigh, co be heavy wind moving through. as of now, no fatalities is the headlines from that very serious storm. new york city looking for a beautiful afternoon after an

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xfi advanced security. if it's connected, it's protected. call, click, or visit a store today. . 34 past the hour. a live look at the white house. ken dilanian, you have new reporting in a piece entitled ag barr expands mysterious review into origin of russia investigation. tell us about it. >> yeah, that's right, mika. we started looking closely that the because mick mulvaney in his now famous news conference where he was discussion the quid pro quo he said one of the reasons they were withholding the aid they were trying to get ukraine to cooperate with what he called an ongoing investigation into wrongdoing. he couldn't remember the name of the guy doing it somebody to had to prompt him. it's john durham. barr has appointed durham to

conduct a review of the origins of the russia investigation, and no one is sure what the basis of the review is. but we've learned that the review has expanded. durham has added staff, he's expanded the timeline. he's looking that conduct that happened after donald trump was inaugurated the we're reporting that he's asked to interview many of the cia analysts who were behind the intelligence community assessment that russia attacked the election in 2016 in favor of donald trump. >> but, ken, i could ask you something? this seems -- this seems -- this seems akin to barr conducting investigation about neil armstrong's walk on the moon that it wasn't on the moon, instead, it was on a back lot in burbank. i mean, this is -- for them to even go down this path, they are ignoring the conclusions of donald trump's fbi director, donald trump's cia director, donald trump's director of

national intelligence, u.s. military -- i mean, you could go tom bossert, the first national security adviser. every single intel leader in america, republicans and democrats alike, have all come to the conclusion that it was, in fact, russia, not ukraine, who tried to interfere with american democracy. >> yeah. and to be clear, joe, it's not 100% certain that durham is investigating this wacky conspiracy theory that the server is in ukraine. i would be shocked if he was. that could be a scandal actually. he does want to talk to people in ukraine and there's a question about why. in general, people are very puzzled by what this -- what's going on here. because, even though there's a lot of questions about barr, most people in the legal community i talked to have a lot of regard for durham. durham was hired by eric holder in the obama administration to investigate the question of cia torture. and he goes back to the whitey

bulger case in boston. he's got a sterling reputation. nonetheless, he's been going around the world interviewing people in countries and the only template i can find for what they're doing is it's the george papadopoulos conspiracy tour. i spoke to western intelligence official who said there's no secrets here. they're talking about exactly the things you've been reading in right wing media which is george pop apadopoulos saying h was set up and it was a deep state plot. durham is interviewing fbi officials who are involved in the early stages of this investigation hunting for signs of bias. but, he hasn't interviewed any of the key officials, although he says he wants to talk to former cia john brannan, he hasn't interviewed comey, rose ebb ste rosenstein. those cia analysts had to hire their own lawyers because no one's sure whether this is a

criminal investigation or not. it is a criminal investigation, what's the allegation of wrongdoing? no one i talked to can answer that, guys. >> i tell you, yes, people are vouching for durham. but people were vouching for barr as well, a guy who i personally believe will be remembered as, perhaps, the most corrupt attorney general in the history of the united states of america. all these assurances mean nothing, especially when he's going around and not only going around the world apparently chasing conspiracy theories, whether it's -- whether it's off of the internet or whether it's from papadopoulos's mind, but he's also trying to get documents from the cia. he's trying to get intel documents that the cia should not give up for a thousand different reasons. you have -- you have the president of the united states pressuring the attorney general who's now pressuring an investigator to go around and to do things that have not -- that have never been done before.

and that is go in and ask the cia to reveal things they shouldn't reveal. >> that's right. you know, people forget that donald trump empowered william barr with his extraordinary authority to demand any classified document he wants in connection with this. and you're absolutely right, there's a lot of unease at the cia and disquiet about the notion of federal prosecutors going over and rooting in their files. not because they think they did anything wrong, but because these are sources and methods. some of the most highly classified documents and secrets in our government. and they are kept to a small set of people for a reason. it's a need-to-know situation. and they're question what is the need for john durham and his prosecutors to go over and talk to them about that? the absence of any allegation of wrongdoing? and what is their expertise? and, in fact, some person said to me john durham is going around the world talking to foreign intelligence services, how does he know he's not being lied to? does he have a counterintelligence visual with him? there's no evidence that he does.

the cia does that for a living. they evaluate whether they're being lied to when they talk to foreign intelligence services. a federal prosecutor really doesn't have that expertise. a lot, a lot of questions here, guys. >> you know, mika, we republicans back when i was in the party, we would criticize democrats, always bring up the church commission, talk about how they made it so much harder for the professionals who were in the cia and the fbi and in our intel services to do their job. anything the democrats ever did pales in comparison to the war, the constant warfare that donald trump is inflicting on the cia, the fbi, the dni. and these -- let's be very clear here, these are the people who protect our country from future attacks. whether it's from homegrown terrorism, whether it's white supremacists, islamic radicals.

but instead of doing their job, they are being investigated because the president remains obsessed with a fact that everybody knows, that the russians tried infiltrate american democracy in 2016 and get him elect zbled. >> thank you very much. hillary clinton waeds into the 2020 race and suggests russia is targeting someone with their sites on the white house, and it's not donald trump. we'll be joined by a senior adviser for clinton's 2016 presidential campaign next on "morning joe." ton's 2016 presidential campaign next on "morning joe." i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national.

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we right now have one of the best democratic presidential primary fields in a generation. and much of that is thanks to the work that bernie sanders has done in his entire life. in this new historic, freshmen congressional class, an overwhelming amounts of them now reject corporate path money.

that's thanks to bernie. an enormous amount of the house of representatives endorse medicare for all, that's thanks to bernie. >> okay. senator and presidential candidate bernie sanders got an endorsement from new york congressman alexandra ocasio cortez in a rally that drew 26,000 people. but the news from a new poll in iowa is with mayor pete buttigieg who has surged to the top tier of the candidates in iowa after his october debate performance. slow and steady. according to the newest suffolk university usa poll out this morning, former vice president joe biden, senator elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg are

statistically tied for first place all sitting within the poll's 4.4 margin of air yooar. biden and warren are one point appoint, 18% to 17%. pete buttigieg is up to 13%. bernie sanders remains unchanged since the summer at 9% falling to fourth place. tom steyer, tulsi gabbard, kamala harris, and amy klobuchar are in a four-way tie for sixth place. jo joining us now or adrienne elrod. what do you make of this poll and especially mayor pete? >> well, mika, mayor pete definitely had a strong debate last week and i think we're now seeing that bounce from the debate reflected in this poll. mayor pete has been laying the groundwork in iowa for months.

he's got a strong team there, a solid operation, some of the best operatives in the business. he's sit twonting on $23.5 billf the we know he had one of the strongest fundraising quarters that day after the debate in the is good news for him. i think a lot of people have been speculating, including myself, that there's got to be somebody else who will seep into that top three, top four status of tier one candidates. we're now seeing that person at least in iowa, that person being mayor pete. if you talk to anybody who's been in iowa, reporters covering iowa, campaign operatives from other campaigns, they will tell you that the buzz on the ground, the person who's getting the most buzz in iowa and has been since the debate and even before the debate has been mayor pete. so big news for him and his campaign and, like you said, mika, slow and steady. that's where you want to be as a candidate. that's what we're seeing with mayor pete.

>> so, nick confess sore,rore, put the numbers back up. i want you to look at the bottom of the list. of those four people, biden, warren, buttigieg, sanders, any of those four people, if you just look at historical trends in the past, any four of those people could win iowa. right now bernie sanders less likely than the others, but i've seen people come from behind and surprise even more than where bernie is right now. he's got the money and the organization. but think about this. what if warren comes in fourth place in iowa? what if biden comes in fourth place? yes, there's an excitement looking at the top, but this almost reminds me of english premier league football. you wonder how the person in the fourth doesn't get relegated as they move on quickly to new

hampshire. how to refer from a fourth place finish in iowa, and that's going to happen to one of these first four strong candidates. >> we see it over and over again, the lower tier candidates who try to hold on until that test, until that moment hoping against hope something might happen. but once these primaries and caucuses start, it gets brutal extremely quickly and conditioned dates, if they survive that long, fall out quickly. i think this race is basically actually somewhat static and unexciting and has been for a while in the sense that the second-tier candidates have not moved very much. buttigieg is one exception. warren has climbed steadily, obviously. but i haven't seen anything that makes me think that the fundamental array of this race is really changing in a big way. i think, yeah, buttigieg is climbing up in iowa in this poll. if he could pull off a top three finish in iowa, yeah, that could be a big deal.

but what we see instead is that the race clarifies at that point and it becomes a smaller list of potential candidates. >> i want to be ask elise really quickly, i think it the surprise for a lot of people is that the candidate that's really not get the traction that a lot of people thought she would get is kamala harris down at 3%, tied with -- tied in sixth place. what's going on there? why has she -- why after -- after connect and going up, what's happened over the past few months? >> kamala harris really came out of the gate strong with i think incredible launch that was just a top-caliber event and great crowd in oakland, california. but since then she just hasn't been able to get momentum after having a moment. you look at that first debate and when she had her moment up against joe biden, it just kind of fizzled out a bit and it

ended up turning against her somewhat. and then in the last debate you look at she just is playing around in, you know, kind of small potatoes arguing with elizabeth warren over banning donald trump from twitter. and she just hasn't been able to come out with a message that really is driving her candidacy where you understand this is why senator harris is in it. and then you look at -- you look at bernie sanders, though, what i would like to ask adrienne, given your experience going up against bernie sanders in iowa, do you think that his fundraising couldn't be better right now but do you think that he should be worried and his campaign should be concerned? >> look, i will never ever in my entire life especially after 2016, underestimate bernie sanders to the your point, elise, he has a significant amount of cash on hand. he's raising donations in maul

amounts small amounts. that means can he go back to the donors time and time again and say please give me another $15, please give me another $20. that's the kind of fundraising operation that you want in a presidential campaign. it sustains you. it means you can stay in probably as long he's wants to. i don't think he needs to necessarily have a top three finish in iowa. he needs to do well in some of the early states, but he's going to be in this for the long haul. i would certainly never underestimate him and i think his campaign knows he's got the infrastructure and the fund raising to stay in this as long as he needs to. >> so hillary clinton suggests that 2020 candidate congresswoman tulsi gabbard may be the favorite of the russian government. in a recent interview, clinton who did not mention gabbard by name said that russia has, quote, got their eye on somebody who's currently in the democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. after saying the unnamed democratic candidate was the

favorite of the russians, clinton lashed out at former green party candidate jill stein stating that assuming jill stein will give it up which she might not because she's also a russian asset, she's a russian asset totally. they know that they cannot win without a third-party candidate. stein responded via twitter writing, it's a shame hrc is peddling conspiracy theories. you can slander progressives as russian assets but you can't hide the fact that the dnc sabotaged sanders and elevated trump to set stage for hrc. gabbard hit back with a series of tweets writing hillary and her gang of rich powerful elite are going after me to send a message to you, shut up, tow the line, are be destroyed. but we the people will not be

silenced. gabbard also pushed back on claims that they is planning a third-party run in 2020. >> so, adrienne -- >> a lot town pack here. >> a lot town pack the unpack. and you would wonder why hillary clinton would attack somebody who is struggling in the polls. but secondly to call jill stein a russian asset, asset, that has a very specific meaning. she should have just done what we conservatives used to call russian apoll gifts and whogist call the president, a useful idiot. it's one thing to call somebody a useful idiot, it's another thing to call them an asset. why did she do that? >> the point that she was making, of course, is that the russia propaganda machine, whether tulsi gabbard is even that aware of it, the russia propaganda machine has been

propelling her, lifting her up since she announced her candidacy. we also know that there are pro putin donors here in the united states, american donors who have been giving to her campaign. so i think hillary clinton is giving a very valid, very important warning to all of us that we've got to be mindful of the fact that russia knows they're only going to win this election, i say they are going to win this election, because they want to win this election by re-electing donald trump by either propping up a third-party candidate and/or suppressing the democratic vote. whether or not tulsi gabbard is aware of this, whether she has complete knowledge of what's happening, the russians are propping her up. and, you know, joe, i remember in 2016 early in the summer of 2016 when we started realizing russia's influence on the campaign a lot of people chocked this up as we're making up conspiracy theories, we don't know what we're talking about. we didn't feel validated until

the intelligence agencies came out on that infamous day with the access hollywood tape and the day that john podesta's emails were released. when the joint intelligence committees came out way statement saying we know for a fact that russia's influencing this election. so i think she's giving us a very important warning right now that we need to take notice. again, whether it's hillary making these claims, other people, these are the things we have to pay attention to because donald trump only got 46% of the vote in 2016, he's not going to get re-elected without a third-party candidate. >> adrienne elrod, thank you very much. coming up, president trump has insisted he's bringing u.s. troops home from the endless wars in the middle east. but it turns out the troops that are leaving northern syria may not be going very far at all. we have new reporting on that. back in two minutes. we have new reporting on that. back itwn o minutes. when you shop for your home at wayfair, you get more than free shipping. you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no.

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i could actually run my business.

i could actually run my business and run government at the same time. i don't like the way that looks, but i would be able to do that, if i wanted to. i'd be the only one that would be able to do that. you can't do that in any other capacity. but as a president i could run the trump organization, great, great company, and i could run the country i'd do a very good job. >> at the end of the day he still considers himself to be in the hospitality business and he saw an opportunity to take the biggest leaders from around the world and he wanted to put on the absolute best show, the best visit that he possibly could and he was very comfortable doing that at doral. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, october 21st. still with us we have white house reporter to the associated press, jonathan lemire. political writer "the new york times," nick confessore. former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department elise jordan. and, joining the conversation, former republican strategist steve schmidt. and usa today opinion columnist and former senior adviser for

the house oversight and government reform committee, kurt joins us. hi, steve. >> it's fascinating that the president of the united states still considers himself to be in the hospitality business and saw an opportunity. >> yeah. >> he saw an opportunity to make money. but there's into way you can make an argument that he saw an opportunity to really take these guys and women to the best place in america because it's just not. it's not even -- it wouldn't be on the top ten list of places to go in south florida. probably not even that area code. it's been struggling over the past -- >> but now that he's canceling, he's still advertising it as president of the united states. >> i know. let's just talk about it. jonathan lemire, the fact is as you know from reporting, doral has been losing money for the past several years. they have had a bedbug infestation, they've been sued for bedbugs. as you said, 37% occupancy in june. so this is a hotel that's two-thirds empty in june.

it's way too hot. >> planes are -- >> it's right by the airport. planes are going overhead all the time. it actually, unlike where bush took everybody, i think it was in '07, it's one of the worst places i could imagine for a g7 summit and yet the president still trying to push and advertise doral despite all the problems that be its had. >> most of his properties in the united states have suffered financially since he took office with the notable exception with his hotel in washington, d.c. which has become a favorite destination of foreign governments and officials trying to curry favor for the white house. yes, part of the issue here with the doral, part of the reason why republicans over the weekend made it very clear to the white house that they were not going to defend this is that there was no sense of -- there was no

sense of the selection process and a growing suspicion that the fix was in. when mulvaney was pressed on other sites, he couldn't name any. he said one was in utah and one was in hawaii and one would require guests to have oxygen maskss whi masks, which is unclear what that is. i assume about altitude. but from the beginning the president was going to steer this event to doral, it had been in the works for months. he wanted -- he saw it as an opportunity to boost his property. he saw it as an opportunity to host world leaders at one of his many properties. and he saw perhaps a chance that he could, as we know, he's been speculating over and over that the g7 should return to the g8 and that russia, namely vladimir putin, should get a seat at the table again. there are people around the president who thought that case could be made most effectively if the president was doing so from his home turf. but had say moment where republicans, and there have not been many moments like this in

the last couple weeks we have seen republicans stand up to him both on g7 and of course the situation in syria. so it will be interesting to see as the impeachment inquiry grows whether republicans will feel more and more comfortable doing that. >> you know, steve schmidt, because things happen so quickly it's easy to become numb to all of this. it's easy to forget that just a month or two ago donald trump had his vice president go and basically steal 100,000, $200,000 from the u.s. treasury and transfer that money directly into trump's irish resort, his resort in ireland despite the fact it was on other side of the country from where his meetings were. we of course we have seen the records, the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars that the united states air force shoveled into donald trump's bank account. deciding sudden that i they were going to stop at an airport -- a

failing airport that was right by, once again, one of donald trump's resorts so they could all go over and stay there. this is, again, this is what you would expect from a third-world country chose corrupt leader decided to just steal gold from the treasury and put it into his -- his personal safe in his presidential office. this is banana republic material and it is so, so sleazy. >> it sure is. the corruption is just unbelievable. if you look back to the republican convection, joe, when we talked about it at the time, the chants of lock them up, what i said about it at the time was it was banana republicism. and the decent from republicans into banana republic has been astonishing fast and the lack of outrage by elected member of congress properly exercising their constitutional oversight

response sablts ju responsibilities is alarming. the reason he feels empowered do this is because no one has objected to it until now. and so the behavior that we're seeing from the president continues to worse ebbn. it continues to worse earn because it's been abetted by the complicity of silence from people who swear an oath to defend the constitution of the united states from all enemies foreign and domestic. i think it's significant that last week we saw an op-ed from the former head of the special operations command, four-star retired admiral william mcraven where he said very directly, he said the president is a threat to the american republic. as we look at the chaos he's sonde around t sewn around the world, here at home, these are the days as we get ready to enter the democratic nominee who will give us something better hopefully.

>> president trump's acting chief of staff mick mulvaney still trying to clean up his mess. the comments about why the trump administration actually withheld aid to ukraine for weeks. during an appearance on fox news sunday, mulvaney continued to walk back his remarks last week about a quid pro quo arguing that reporters -- reporters had misinterpreted his very clear comments. >> why did you say in that briefing that president trump had ordered a quid pro quo -- quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depended on investigating the democrats? why'd you say that? >> that's what people said that i said. here's what i said, i'll say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. we've talked about this at some length. the first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. president was also concerned about whether or not other nations, specifically european

nations, were helping with foreign aid to the ukraine as well. i did then mention in the past the president had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc serve. he mentioned the dnc server publicly. he even mentioned it to president saturday lens skip in the phone call, but it wasn't expe connected to the aid. >> i think that's where people got sidetracked. >> you were asked by jonathan karl, you were asked about a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. >> reporters will use their language all the time. my language never said quid pro quo. i never said there was a quid pro quo because there isn't. chris, you've been in these briefings, you know how back and forth it is and how rapid fire it is. look to things on the ground that you can certify and what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. >> but you -- >> steve schmidt, he said people get sidetracked. he specifically on thursday talked about a quid pro quo. he said we weren't going to give them anything until and then he listed several things,

including, and this is what is just the most troubling. a conspiracy theory. a conspiracy theory that the dnc server is hiding somewhere in ukraine, who knows, behind a mountain range, behind a vault, who knows where they claim it is. but they're actually -- that is an old, discredited conspiracy theory that grew up from sort of the same cluttered part of the internet that pizza gate grew up in or this seth rich conspiracy degree up in. it's complete, total nonsense and it's been discredited. the u.s. intelligence community unanimously discredited it. the united states military discredited it. they all said this came out of russia, not ukraine. and, yet, donald trump's chief of staff and now his justice department are chasing down

internet conspiracy theories that everyone knows are not true. >> it's truly incredible. i mean, we have a long and rich tradition in this country of conspiracy theories, but what's unusual is to hear it being economy cobb echoed by the white house chief staff that hereto for this was the chief adviser to the president of the united states and who sits in an office where life and death decisions are made. so to see him sit there and try to wiggle his way out of what he clearly said in plain english at the news conference a day or so before is par for the course. but, nevertheless, just equally disturbing. and what i would say about the conspiracy theory is that have no doubt that this is believed as stone cold fact by tens of millions of people in this country. we are living in an era where

donald trump and his supporters, hissen able his enablers have created to a large extent an alternate reality. and in that alternate reality the server is in ukraine, it is worthy of federal investigations into -- into what finds it. and i think the important thing is when you were talking earlier about the investigation being conducted by the prosecutor, looking into the origins of the russia inquiry, when you look at the plain transcript of what the president talked to the ukrainian president about with joe biden, i mean, the point of all of this is this: if donald trump can abuse his power, abuse his office to try to do that to joe biden, would what that means is he can do that to any person in america. anyone. and we don't necessarily, i don't think, want to live in a country where we see the mechanism and the power of the state being used by a corrupt

person to target political opponents. that is not what is supposed to be happening in a healthy democracy but, alas, it is. and i think it's a statement of the distress and unhealthiness of the american republic in this final quarter of 2019 after three years of donald trump. >> for sure. kurt, with mick mulvaney as chief of staff also heading up omb and being so clearly involved with these funds that were held up that he was talking about, the shock factor is unbelievable. but wouldn't this be best worked out in oversight through the process of oversight and in order to help us get over it, wouldn't it make sense for mick mulvaney to come before congress and answer some questions on the record? >> well, of course it would, mika. here's the bottom line. if there's nothing to hide, if the trump administration did nothing wrong, if there is no quid pro quo, as mick mulvaney

has been unable to articulate for some reason, then there's no reason why she shouldn't come and answer questions before congress and the oversight committee as these proceedings continue about impeachment. the reality is this week alone, multiple officials from the omb have been asked to come and testify for the oversight committee for this inquiry and we don't know if they'll show up or not. history tells us they probably want. the omb director has been asked to come this week, he hasn't sent a response yet. if there is no nefarious things going on with ukrainend at aid, why not will have people who are in charge of the money at the omb who would know what was directed when and by whom to show up and say there was no order there are was no quid pro quo or interference from the celebration on behalf of ukraine, how difficult is it to show up and do sna? the fact that so many people from the trump administration aren't willing to come before congress under oath and a shows things tells you there's something there? >> and it wouldn't be hard if that were the truth, but that's not the truth and it's not the

truth because we heard very early on at the beginning of this story that it was, in fact, donald trump who passed the message to mill mick mulvaney and it was mick mulvaney who passed the message to everyone that they were holding up the aid. secretary of state mike pompeo is accusing house democrats of leading an unfair impeachment inquiry after barring state department leaders from listening to current and former agency officials at the center of an investigation. in an interview with plait "politico" on friday, pompeo accuse democrats of putting state secrets at risk and said the state department has been given little visibility into what is being said by current and former employees. pompeo said, quote, they're not letting state department lawyers in the room. they have not let state department lawyers be a party of these hearings. that's unheard of. >> he says that's unheard of. >> really? >> i've got to -- i'm sorry -- >> i'm so confused. >> i got to just stop right there because, kurt, you know --

>> help us out here. we're just -- >> this guy went to west point, right? and didn't he good to harvard law school? so he's -- i think he's supposed to be a pretty smart guy. and, yet, it would almost seem that he has some problem with his memory? i don't know if we should call doctors out in kansas or not. but wasn't he a part of the bin ghazi committee and didn't he do exactly that repeatedly where attorneys were constantly kept out? i mean, the "washington post," in fact, reported that four years ago pompeo then republican congressman attended a deposition with the former state department official who was not allowed to have counsel present for benghazi. and under the house rules, for all depositions adopted in january before this impeachment inquiry, witnesses may be

accompanied at a deposition by personal, nongovernment counsel to advise them of their rights. the rules go on to say that on serves or counsel for the government agencies may not attend. and that was adopted in january before the inquiry, kurt. >> well, again, this is another case of people in the trump orbit trying to create this alternate reality of what the past actually is. past, matter of fact, as you pointed out, they actively participated in when they were in control of congress and they were investigating barack obama. the reality is, joe, and you know this from having served in congress and on the committee. you do not want to have a deposition where someone's potential superior is in the room with you. that's going affect testimony. you don't want that type of witness intimidation blat ntly there if donald trump's hand picked lawyers are sitting in in a deputy virtion hosition, how you think that testimony will be? if he believed there's not a there there, he would show up

right now, testify and he could put this to bed. but they're not doing that. they have something to hide. they continually attack the process. trump made this ridiculous assertion the other day on twitter that republicans never issued subpoenas to the obama administration. that is ridiculous. just during the 2016 election cycle they were irk subpoenas. 17 subpoenas in the run up to the election targeting hillary clinton. so the idea that this is somehow unprecedented and that democrats are doing something that hasn't been done before, the reality is if anything, they're just picking up where republicans left off. >> yeah, the hypocrisy, elise, should be mind boggling. it's sadly all too predictable and kurt brought up a great point. the fact that you've got pompeo saying, no, no, nobody's going to go over there and testify in a deposition unless one of their state department superiors is breathing down their neck, that's just -- that's pure i did

yois y i d idiocy. he knows they didn't run investigations over there when he was on sonbsessed on benghaz years. one more example of a bad faith argument meant to do little more than distract supporters and put a smoke screen against one of the most corruption administrations ever. >> joe, i think that this is even bigger than just an episode of hypocrisy, though. it's another example of how mike pompeo has turned the state department from his vantage point into a political operation for the president. and he expects that the state department legal is supposed to be providing legal counsel to state department officials caught up in this impeachment debacle. i remember an era when the state department legal, they were doing things like promoting rule of law around the world. they were investigating human

rights statutes. they were working with the department of defense. they were concerned with promoting and elevating the rule of law in america. and you hear reports about how secretary pompeo is completely checked out of the state department in terms of pursuing the diplomatic aims of the department because he is so caught up in his own political ambitions. i think this is just yet another example of how pompeo wants to mold the state department for his personal whims and not for the benefit of american national interest. >> well, this one's for steve schmidt. senator lindsey graham went from president trump's one of his most vocal critics during the 2016 campaign to one of his key allies on the hill during his presidency. we've watched that play out. well, here's how graham explained his support, sort of their relationship with the

president to jonathan swann of axios. >> i just didn't like trump, i didn't like what he said, i didn't like the way he ran his campaign, and i lost. so i made a conscious decision here to try to help him where i can. >> but to be clear, you've actually sincerely changed your views of his character? it's not just -- >> yeah, that's a good question. i've got know him and i find him to be a handful. i find him to be an equal opportunity abuser of people. but, at the end of the day, he can be very charming and be very gracious and i'm judging him by his conduct. >> an abuser of people. >> yeah. >> okay. >> well, he abuses people on both sblieds at leaides. >> at least he was honest. >> and in this case, though, unfortunately he also abandoned the kurds, strength end tened t russians, betrayed the israelis, put vladimir putin in an

incredible position to be the master player in that part of the middle east. and it's created a foreign policy that he calls american first but it seems to keep actually accruing to the benefit of vladimir putin and russia. so it is fascinating that lindsey graham could still support him even though he's been harshly critical of him over the past couple weeks. did i -- i did think one thing interesting in that interview was that lindsey said that he would remain open on the question of impeachment. that he's not -- he's not running around saying i will never vote for his impeachment. >> well, i guess it's reassuring that as somebody who would be a juror that he wouldn't have made up his mind before any facts are presented or before any impeachment documents are in the end filed. but, look, lindsey graham is somebody who -- and you just

can't have it both ways here. it's either that he didn't believe any of the things that he used to say, or he doesn't believe any of the things he's saying now. but you can't make the two fit together. when you look at the things he once said about donald trump, the things he once purported to believe in, he has become one of the president's biggest shilsls in the congress. he's refused to hold him to account time and time again. and the situation that we see in the middle east, the chaos that has been unleashed, the human suffering that will flow from it, this situation will play out not over weeks, but over many, many years. and the reason that it's going to affect our national security so horribly, so badly is because men like lindsey graham over the past three years time and time and time again have not done

their duty and have given donald trump a pass. and it's just as simple as that. you can't look at the inevitable consequence for the accumulation of all the dishonesty, the lying, the transactional politics and just a complete incompetence of it all and then when you get the bad result say, hey, i can't believe this bad thing has happened. just doesn't work like that in real life. >> you know, nick, and just to add an exclamation point to that statement, how shameful lindsey graham is now telling roiters that reuters that he may be reversion his quote says that trump's policy could succeed on the abandonment of the kurds and the abandonment of the israeli interests, the elevation of isis, syria, and that could succeed he says.

>> i guess everything is possible. it is fascinating to watch as the president pursues a policy that the senator himself has conveyed against in a truly heartbreaking way, in a sincere way as a betrayal of all his beliefs about american foreign policy and power to then try and clean it up like mulvaney on the sunday show. again, i guess you got to do what you got to do to survive in trump's party, but i do wonder if we'll see next a cleanup of the remark that he's opened on voting for impeachment or has he made his mind up yet? i personally was struck by that and it's a reminder that politicians always look for wiggle room. sow they can gso they can get ahe ahead of what might be coming. it's not surprising that the president is caught in the unfolding of things of his own making that people are wondering

what comes next. >> thank you both for being on the show this morning. great have you. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by senator chris coons of the foreign relations committee. also president trump's former va secretary david shulkin joins us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. . you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. when did you see the sign? when i needed to create a better visitor experience.

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>> esper ran saturdranza. >> what does he call the former majority leader of the house, steve? >> his name is kitchen. >> cavern mcgrabling, bth, but him steve? >> yes. defense secretary mark esper, that's his name over the weekend commenting about reports of continued fighting in the area despite the trump administration's public statements, vice president mike pence brokered a, quote, pause in the turkish offensive against the kurds. and not a, quote, ceasefire that. word is not used anywhere in the joint u.s./turkey statement and the turks have rejected the term as well. meanwhile, this morning we're learning that president trump may be leaving a small number of troops in northeast syria. in addition to leaving a handful of troops at a base in southern syria, u.s. officials tell "the

wall street journal" president trump suspect consideriis consi keep a few hundred troops in northeast syria. they report that a mission of those troops would be to prevent syria and russia's advance into the region's oil fields. the troop would also enable the military to retain a foothold in the fight against islamic state militants. the president appears to have alluded to the idea on twitter friday writing, quote, the u.s. has secured the oil. joining us now from the white house, nbc news correspondent hans nichols. >> it's fascinating, hans, secure the oil. he's concerned about the oil, not so concerned about those who gave their lives to help us destroy isis. and this deal, let's get in a little deep near this deal that he made with autocrat erdogan, because other reports after that were that erdogan treated donald trump with contempt, wadded up

his letter, through it away, said that he would not forget the insult and he was going to do whatever he wanted to do at the end of the day. >> when erdogan is scheduled to visit here on november 13th, that is going to be a day for the ages. remember, president trump hasn't withdrawn that invitation just yet. you know, guys, as to this discussion about oil and northeast syria, you'll recall back in february, 2008, there was a massive conflict between russian irregular troops, they were mercenaries, but they were russian and u.s. forces. u.s. forces through basically everything at these russian troops which were going towards the oil field. what was remarkable about this story is not just that some 200 russians were killed by u.s. planes, there's video of it. it was remashable it didn't get more coverage. i believe that was the week that rob porter was ousted from the white house and made allegation that's was abusing his ex-wives

or there were some personal allegations there. but it was an incredible story that didn't get that much attention. and it isn't clear at the time that the sdf, our kurdish partners there wanted to keep those oil fields. i think that's what's so interesting about the president's tweet, not just the mark esperanza stuff and the state department being on different terms of their messaging. they've got good coms on that, it's impossible to coordinate a coordinated strategy on what your strategy will if you're talking to different people i think you see some of that come out. but, to me, i don't understand how it's going work. so the kurds are going to be aligned with assad up north, but assad is not going to get the oil fields in a little bit further south where the u.s. will keep this force of a couple hundred troops. i don't understand how that works. that's -- they need to explain that. >> all right.

nbc's hans nichols, thank you very much. joining us now, member of the senate foreign relations and judiciary committees, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. he has a new piece in the atlantic magazine entitled "the senate must rein in trump. ♪ this . >> it's an important message. >> and obviously, senator, donald trump has been attacking every ally that has served as a bulwark against autocratic aggression, whether you look at his constant attempts to undermine nato, his constant attempt to undermine democratic allies across europe, and now, of course, his abandonment of the kurds which, in effect, gives vladimir putin and russia complete control of that region. i mean, they are -- they are now the king makers in that part of

the middle east. >> that's right, joe. what we've heard in terms of expressions ofgraphy conce expressions of grave concern from advisers of this administration and previous administrations is not only is this betrayal of the kurds in northeastern syria something that is a stain on america's record and has unleashed hundreds of hardened isis fighters and has advantaged vladimir putin and the murderous regime of say sad and the assad and the iranians, as if that wasn't bad enough, we have to now take a hard look what the other circumstances around the world might lead an impulsive and i experienced president to cut some deal way foreign dictator in pursuit of what he thinks is in america's best interest is but demonstrably not. whether it's a withdraw from nato, withdraw from the southern peninsula, a failure to defend peaceful protests in hong

kongtor stand with the people of taiwan if they come under increases pressure. there's lots of places around the world where the faction of the united states keeps its word and commitments have been critical to regional stability and security and i think this may not be the last time that president trump stuns all of us with a move of this kind. >> senator, we'll ask you a little further about that in a moment, but first let's get you on the facts on the ground in syria. we've seen the last couple records the idea there might be a few hundred troops left, there might be shifts to some in iraq. does that do anything in your mind to stabilize the situation there? >> it may make it less bad, but frankly the harm that was done first to our reputation can't be undone. second, the hundreds of isis fighters who have now slipped out of their detention and are unaccounted for, it may prevent that from getting more rapidly worse, but not by much. because, frankly, as joe said in his leading question, it's hard to imagine what it is that's now going to be the circumstances on the ground.

that's not at all clear. how far into syria are the turks going to go? how long will they stay? what sort of control will they exercise? how far north are assad's forces backed by russian air power, backed by iranian irregular in the rogc? how far are they going to go pl it's critical that he with keep or i base to protects against an east/west flow from iraq. but in the northeast, i find it hard to believe that we're going to be able to protect those troops if president trump turns and runs every time he gets barked at by a strong man like erdogan. >> and you bring up the isis fightse fighters who are unaccounted for. president trump tried to strike a reassuring to be saying they're not going to come to the united states, they'll be in europe. let me ask you about that. you mentioned the idea of the u.s. abandoning its commitents elsewhere and betraying its allies. what message is he send together european countries where he's saying ice have that's your problem, not ours.

>> i met with an ambassador from a european country where a very lethal isis attack that was planned in raqqa. these are some of our most trusted, longest allies with whom we have fought shoulder to shoulder in afghanistan and iraq and the middle east where we are currently doing important work against terrorism in south africa. this gives pause to all of our allies making them wonder if the president is an isolationist and if he is as ill informed about the middle east as he sounds. >> senator, trump's draw dawn down in syria has made the headlines of the news. did the administration provide any just any occasion to you and your colleagues for that are move? >> frankly, no. and frankly what concerns me more is the president saying the reason they're going saudi arabia is they're being paid for

it. everything we've seen from president trump about this region and about these recent decisions is either driven by money or securing oil, our troops are being paid for, or by a profound lack of grasp of the region in its recent history. bread basket of the middle east, the place where an enormous amount of food has been grown for millennia he describes as lots and lots of sandpy cou. i could go on at great length. for reasons i'm finding it hard to put my finger on there are is the issue that has caused republicans in the senate to finally stand up and challenge this president, to publicly express disagreement. mitch mcconnell published a very strong editorial denouncing this ill advised move by president trump. i'm pointing out to them that he's not keeping a campaign commitment to bring our troops home, instead, he's increasing the number of our troops that are at great risk by being right in the very center of the

iranian/saudi conflict and the saudis are not our most reliable ally. >> will the senate debate a new authorization of military force at umf? >> we should. we likely won't. >> might that happen? no. >> we should be having many more hearings prtd we have had one about iran. we should have many more hearings about what's happening in syria, what's happening in the saudi kingdom and region. all of this is connect and, frankly, right now these moves about president trump hands territory and strong some of our most difficult opponents, russia, iran, and obviously bashar al assad in the is one of the reasons i continue to be enthusiastic about joe biden as a candidate for president. he would restore and stabilize a lot of our position on the world stage. he has deep knowledge of these areas, he's been to these countries dozens of times. he would not be making these same mistakes. >> senator, imagine that the next president is still president trump.

a second term of president trump. we're talk now on syria. but when you look around the world at our commitments, at our posture, at our alliances, what is your worry about what a second trump term would look like in terms of the president's priorities and what he would do with nato or with south korea? >> i am greatly concerned that president trump sees the value of our troops being on the korean peninsula or in western europe solely in terms of funding. that he harangues and harasses and pressures our allies as if there is some decades old unpaid bar tab for the security and stability of the world. the american people have demonstrably benefitted from our alliances in nato, in east asia, and in the endo-pacific. that say lot of what has produced prosperity, stability over the last seven decades. we designed and built a world order and our troops around the world have played an absolutely central role in making that possible. i do think president trump will continue to destabilize these

alliances. he is achieving the long-term strategic goals of xi jinping and vladimir putin, threatening our withdrawal from south korea and japan and profoundly weakening the nato alliance that so many fought so hard to strengthen and to stabilize in the recent years. >> so let me ask you, senator, "the new york times" just released a story today saying that donald trump has ordered and quietly pulled 2,000 troops out of afghanistan over the past year, even though there's been no peace deal with the taliban. obviously the troops are there for one purpose, one main purpose, and that is to stop the next 9/11 from happening, to stop the spread of terrorism across that region, to stop them there before they start blowing up buildings in the united states again. what's your -- what's your reaction to the president now moving to get us out -- get us out of afghanistan and strike a

deal with the taliban? >> well, you know, frankly there is broadly in the united states war reweariness. and trump talks about bringing our troops home. there are two different ways to resolve a conflict. one as we just saw in syria, abrupt, ill conceived, ill planned, it leaves our allies puzzled or weakened and it encourages our adversaries and puts our troops at risk. the other would be to leave in a measured and thoughtful way having achieved some stabilization and some peace agreement. that's what's being attempted in afghanistan. but to draw down our troops by several thousand when the taliban have not only not been able to come to a peace agreement back up where the president is fumbling around about inviting them to camp david for a reality tv-style surprise reveal meeting between the taliban and the president of

afghanistan was a striking misstep. this is just one more reminder that president trump is the very first president in our history with no previous service either military or elected to undergurd his leadership and how to conduct foreign policy. he willfully ignores the advice of diplomats and generals. joe biden as pred would be a fundamentally different leader. someone who with rely on the advice of seasoned and senior professionals, someone who has visited troops in rack and afghanistan dozens of times and who understands and takes seriously the enormous amount of sacrifice that has been made. he would not draw down and abandon afghanistan without some clear path forward. think the contrast between these two leaders couldn't be more stark. >> since you brought up joe biden twice, i need to ask you, do you think that hunter biden should have been in ukraine working for an energy company while joe biden was going over there being responsible to clean up the country? >> well, let's be clear.

everyone who has looked at the facts of these allegations has concluded that joe biden did nothing wrong. that he was carrying out the policy of the obama administration, of the eu. >> all right, senator, i agree with that and of course, as i say repeatedly, the "wall street journal" has said that he has done nothing wrong. i just wonder if you agree with ed luce with the financial times that his nepotism. his son who had no skill sets that would have allowed him to be on the board of an energy company or consultant to an energy company to take money out of ukraine, should he have been there or was that a mistake? it was a mistake for him to be flying over on the vice president's plane to china to get money from a business venture in china? was that a mistake inl receipt stro inspect? >> beau has spoken on that and said he it was. >> hunter had the punter. >> i'm sorry, forgive me.

>> i'm made the mistake myself. >> huntser has spok hunter has spoken to this in an interview where i thought he was remarkably forthcoming and expressed ways in which this has become a distraction for his father in running for the president of the united states. i think to make a -- >> no, there's no comparison. >> no, no, there's no comparison. >> to have an honest conversation about this would just have to put things in context. and it just doesn't help. and it's, you know, the kind of thing that trump feasts upon, manipulates, and then spus out a spews out and uses this as his background for crimes he's committing with our foreign policy. but i think if we can't have an honest conversation about whether or not it's okay for, you know, i don't think was a good idea. but it was not illegal and it's been investigated. but i think we need to be honest

that -- >> agree. >> that's where it all began. it's not a good idea. >> and also that it was very, very bad judgment. all right. well, we'll leave it there. senator chris coons, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. coming up, an off the rails job interview likened to a "saturday night live" skit. >> we have some of the scenes described in a new book by former veterans affair secretary david shulkin. we'll sask him about his 15-monh tenure in a twitter twierg firi president trump when "morning joe" comes right back. ump when joe" comes right back. ou only pr what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? maybe you could free zoltar?

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i also want to express our appreciation for secretary shulkin who is implementing the dramatic reform throughout the va. it's got to be implemented. if it's not properly implemented it will never mean the same thing. but i have no doubt it will be properly implemented. right, david? better be, david.

we'll never have to use those words. we'll never have to use those words on our david. >> that was president trump reforming to the former secretary of veterans affairs shulkin a mere month before his firing. david shulkin joins us now. he's the author of the new book "it shouldn't be hard to serve your country." i love that title. our broken government and the plight of veterans. thank you so much for being on the show. >> so mr. secretary, it's just absolute madness. i was just reading a politico novel written by guy snodgrass the speechwriter for general mattis. he talked about their first meeting for the pentagon. they were supposed to go around the room and talk about where u.s. forces were located across the globe. instead all donald trump wanted to talk about was macron's handshake and a military parade

in washington. i'm sure you felt with this erratic behavior an awful lot yourself. >> he always carried the conversation and you never knew exactly where it was going to go. >> talk about your book. >> i wrote the book for two reasons. one is i believe strongly as most americans do that our veterans deserve the very best care that can be delivered in this country and the very best services. and frankly the va as great an organization it is, still needs to improve to make sure we deliver on that commitment and that promise to our veterans. and the second reason i wrote the pook is i talk about the political environment today and what it's like to serve to try

to help improve services and how toxic this environment is making it so difficult to be able to fulfill the mission those who also come to government try to do. >> secretary, you write in the book that president trump's son-in-law and senior advisor jared kushner came up with the idea to close poor performing veterans affairs hospitals which you say was an effort to perhaps privatize the entire system. walk us through that moment in your tenure. >> well, i want to be clear i think the president does have veterans best interests at heart and felt there were good vas and bad vas. in any big system you're going to have well functioning hospitals and some that aren't

well functioning. and the president said why don't we close those that aren't working well. i had to describe to the president that we couldn't simply do that. that would require congress' involvement and that was a legislative issue. i think what we were doing at that point in the administration was just a lack of understanding what was an executive decision and what were legislative issues. i had to walk them through that process. i of course had been in government in the obama administration so i was familiar with that so i think they were just learning the new ways of government. >> secretary, in the book you address your controversies surrounding your travel to europe and your wife's travel to europe. but you argue you were made into somewhat of a victim because other trump officials also had wives accompanying them on trips. do you regret that you had your wife go to europe?

do you regret that became a narrative of your service, your european trip? >> well, i certainly regret anything that took the focus away from being on veterans. that's why i was there, it's what i strongly believe in. the whole reason i wept to work every day. and so any issue that takes away from that is certainly something that i regret. but, you know, let's take a look at what happened. my wife was an official invitee, as a physician she was invited by the united kingdom to come and visit. that trip was completely pre-approved by the va ethics officials, by everyone at va, by the white house, pie the state department. this trip had been planned months ahead and they had actually insisted that my wife get a passport from the u.s. government to be able to go. so we followed everything that was properly done, and there was nothing done that shouldn't have been done. but, however, in this environment in washington that was used as a way to attack me

personally, to take away my authority to be able to manage the va. and part of the reason why i think that people use this in a political sense to shorten the length of my tenure as secretary. >> secretary, let's speak here about the policy substance you were speaking of earlier. we have had a tug-of-war in this country in washington for a decade or more over the va and a push to privatize it, put it in the hands of private companies and not have a public institution. where has it been now, has it been successful and are we going to see this at the end of this term or the end of this second trump term a full effort to privatize the va? >> first of all i think it's essential we have a strong veterans system. it's what the veterans want, but

just as important it's part of our country's responsibility to take care of those who have raised their hands to defend us. and if we stop having a strong va system i don't think we should just expect people will continue to volunteer to defend us, to be injured in the line of duty and then not to feel that we're there for them when they come back. so that's why i feel so strongly that we shouldn't be privatizing the va. now, we do need to work closely with the private sector. we do need help from private hospitals and private doctors to be able to fulfill that mission, and that's something that i was driving strongly to. a strong va system but working closely with the private sector. but there are many people who were working hard just to make sure that the va system wouldn't be strong and that's the privatation effort. i think what we're seeing today people with saying they're not

in favor of privatization. but if you look at the current policies that potentially could lead to a deterioration in the strength of the va. and that's something we all have to be looking for and be individual l vigilant to make sure that doesn't happen. >> former va secretary david shulkin, thank you very much. and still ahead mick mulvaney is still trying to cleanup the mess. the comments that he made about ukraine, insisting that he didn't admit to a quid pro quo with usa even though that's what he did and he says it happens all the time. plus president trump reverses his course on his plan to hold next year's g-7 summit at his miami resort. your watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds with a packed 8:00 a.m. hour. onds with packed 8:00 a.m. hour. one.

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or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. i was involved with the process by which the money was held up temporarily, okay. three issues for that. the corruption in the country, whether or not other countries were participating in support of ukraine and whether or not they were cooperating in an ongoing investigation with our department of justice. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. okay, three issues for that. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. >> wow.

>> what i find so remarkable is that when these people come out and lie on national television, they lie through their teeth. they then are arrogant about it and say i hope they listen next time. we heard you the first time and you lied about it the second time. and this happens again. it's like when mulvaney went in front of the press corp the first time and said this happens all the time and get over it. so this is what i love about the incompetence surrounding the white house and actually the re-election campaign. the guy who actually made a statement in the course of moving donald trump a lot closer to being impeached, possibly removed from office, that guy and his ignorant words "get over it" now being sold as t-shirts. this is like your -- so let me

get this straight, your selling the evidence that's going to lead you to impeachment to even make money off of that? i understand your foolishness with doral that you woke up and smelled the cat food on that one, that it was unconstitutional and going to get you impeached. thank god we don't have to explain to boris johnson and all the bedbugs -- very well put together but the doral bedbugs are killers especially in the summer. but anyway so they're arrogant about their stupidity and also arrogant and trying to market off the evidence that's going to lead to donald trump being impeached. only the third president in the history of the united states to be impeached. >> so on thursday there were three reasons why the white house held up aid to ukraine. pie sunday as you saw it was down to two. the missing link of course when

mick mulvaney openly acknowledged last week a quid pro quo. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, october 21st. with us we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, political writer nick, former aid to the bush white house and state department elise jordan, and covering national security and intelligence, ken dilanian. >> jonathan lemire, let's start of course pie talking about the new york yankees failing to make the world series for this entire decade, since the 19 teens but with that as a backdrop with everything we do for the next several weeks talk about the level of concern and level of disparage inside the white house on mulvaney's monstrous mistake

admitting publicly the quid pro quo, rudy giuliani's ongoing troubles, his tangled business relationships that seem to be he's looking for love in all the wrong places. talk about how the toxic stew that this is creating and the concern inside the white house about how this could lead to donald trump's impeachment and more? >> first, joe, on the yankees, the most important news of the morning. you're right this is the first decade since the 19 teens when they did not appear in the world series. they spent $2 billion on players this decade without appearing in the world series. they have now gone 18 of the last 19 seasons without winning a world series. and there's this stat -- i bought statistics with me. in the decade that just ended from 2010 to 2019 they had the

winningest record in the regular season but did not make a world series, the first major league baseball team in history to not do that. heart break for yankees and their fans. in terms of the white house, yes, there's rising angst in the building on a few different issues. the acting chief of staffs disastrous news conference and that is how it's being viewed in every corner of trump's world is still having ramifications now. they've had to cleanup -- they've had to reverse themselves on g-7 as you saw. no longer having it at the president's golf course in doral just outside of miami, florida. the quid pro quo issue which mulvaney laid out on thursday, tried to cleanup in a statement later that day, tried again over the weekend in the sunday show appearances, you know, has led a lot of people in the trump white house wondering perhaps if he will not be long for his job.

we saw immediately the personal attorney jay sekulow distance himself from what he said. and the justice department in a rare move they distanced themselves from what mulvaney said. there have been people in the building already unhappy with how mulvaney was handling the impeachment inquiry and this has thrown gasoline on that fire. but the problem is this, the people we talked to over the weekend that mulvaney's job at least for now is safe not because the president is happy with him because he isn't, but they don't have any replacements. this is white house from the beginning has struggled to hire and retain talented white house officials, people to work in the administration. there's no short list now. there's no sense that mulvaney is going to lose his job anytime soon. >> well, i think this from the patterns that we've seen one can deduce this white house operates on vacancies. same with the state department. the more jobs that are not

filled the more of that void trump can fill on his own. here's mulvaney sunday trying to walk back his remarks from last week about the quid pro quo arguing that reporters -- actually reporters had misinterpreted his comments. >> why did you say in that briefing that president trump ordered quid pro quo that investigating the democrats, that aid to ukraine depended on investigating the democrats, why'd you say that. >> here's what i said and i'll say it again and hopefully people will listen this time. there were two reasons that we held up the aid. we talked about this at some length. the first one was the rampant corruption in ukraine. the president was also concerned whether or not other nations specifically european nations were helping with foreign aid to ukraine as well. i did mention in the past the president had mentioned to me from time to time about the dnc server. he's even mentioned it to president zelensky in the phone

call, but it wasn't connected to the aid, and i think that's why people got sidetracked this weekend at that press conference. there was not a quid pro quo. >> you described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. >> and again reporters will use their language all the time. i never said it was a quid pro quo because there isn't. again, chris, you've been in these briefings. you know how back and forth it is, how rapid fire it is. look to the fact on the ground, things you can actually certify. and what should put this issue to bed is that the money flowed without any connection whatsoever to the dnc server. >> so that was him yesterday. here again is what mulvaney said very clearly on thursday. >> did he also mention to me in the past the corruption related to the dnc server, absolutely. no question about that. but that's it, that's why we held up the money. i was involved with the process pie which the money was held up

temporarily, okay? three issues for that. the corruption of the country, whether or not other countries were participating in support of ukraine, and whether or not they were cooperating in an ongoing investigation with our department of justice. that's completely legitimate. >> all right, so of course, elise, i mean there's rank stupidity here. i don't know whether mick mulvaney is the one so stupid or he believes trump supporters are so stupid he thinks the rubes, he considers them to be rubes, the rubes in his mind will just let it pass. but he said a couple of things of course in the press conference thursday, he said it happens all the time. that's a lie. he was called out on the lie and so humiliated with that lie he did want even repeat it on sunday. and then on sunday i found it fascinating he said oh, we're talking about the server,

everybody's talking about the dnc server, right? well, actually, no. only conspiracy theorists are talking about a dnc server being hidden mysteriously somewhere by an oligarch in ukraine. nobody believes that to be the truth. that is conspiracy theory, and yet he is saying that's the quid pro quo. this conspiracy theory that was disprove by conservatives and liberals a very long time ago. >> joe, it's just been really disappointing to watch mick mulvaney behaving the way that he is. i previously thought very highly of him and his character and his intentions in public policy, and this has just been a really disappointing episode where i am not sure what he's doing following these conspiracy

theories. i thought he was a more serious-minded man and a more honest man. and it just, frankly, is disappointing to watch him swept up in -- >> can i ask you what's he doing? why is he doing this? there can be no position worth this? you know, he supposedly was a small government conservative. he's now proudly serving with the biggest spending republican in the history of this republic or any republic. i mean, biggest deficits ever, biggest debt ever. the trade deficit is expanding, the number of illegal immigrants that are being caught on the border far beyond all possible doubt where they ever were -- >> there's a really disappointing one-word answer i think and it's called power, proximity to power and what people are willing to give up to stay close to the power even in

an acting capacity which i would add how long is that acting title? is he ever going to be made the official chief of staff? you hear from people who have worked in this white house that jared kushner is the de facto chief of staff. and i can't imagine why it is worth it for mick mulvaney to stick around and debase himself like this when you have got jared kushner in the wings. jared kushner calling the shots. >> it is -- debasing is a great example of it. he's debased himself. >> in a big way. >> and when donald trump leaps to him which i think is going to be sooner rather than later after the next election, mick mulvaney will find himself like so many other trump employees, he won't be able to find a job around town because he's proven himself to be a liar time and time again and proven to do

anything just to have the spotlight on him for a couple of seconds. there is such a sleaze factor and goes pack to what rick wilson has always said, anything trump touches dies. that extends to reputations of people who work for him. still ahead on "morning joe." >> i could actually run by business. i could actually run my business and run government at the same time. i don't like the way that looks, but i would be able to do that if i wanted to. i'd be the only one that would be able to do that. a flashback there to a donald trump just a few days before inauguration. we'll have the latest on his push and than backtrack on a planned summit -- >> he sees himself as a hospitality guy. >> and you can also believe everything he says what he said including that. but first here's bill cairns with a check on the forecast. >> i've got to show you what happened last night. about 15 miles away from the

stadium this tornadoes came down with a strong thunderstorm right over this city. this is in northern portions of of dallas up around university park. they're estimating it was an ef 3 tornado and that means possibly 10 to 160 miles per hour. at least four homes were destroyed, a home depot was destroyed. we have minor injuries, thankfully no serious injuries and no fatalities, but scary scene. that again was between 9:00 and 9:15. that's what it looked like on radar and here's dallas right here. also we had a fatality in arkansas from the wind damage as the storms went through. all these blue dots are areas that need cleanup today because of downed trees and other wind damage. today we're dealing with about 17 people at risk of severe storms. houston to new orleans back up to the memphis area and we're continuing to watch these storms even on tuesday for the north

coast. kind of an ugly day from minneapolis to wisconsin and chicago. and the severe storm threat tomorrow will be in carolinas from just about central portions of of south carolina back down towards wilmington and we also will deal with some of that rain. and beginning to get some new pictures in here from the dallas area. this was the home depot that was destroyed by those winds that were potentially 150 miles per hour. when you see all this damage and knowing some of these businesses are still open, it's amazing we didn't have anymore serious injuries or fatalities. we'll have more updates on this throughout the day here on msnbc. we'll be right back. msnbc. we'll be right back. and private clouds, and hybrid clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience

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hey. ♪hey. you must be steven's phone. now you can take control of your home wifi and get a notification the instant someone new joins your network... only with xfinity xfi. download the xfi app today. following widespread bipartisan criticism and maybe republicans will learn something from this, president trump announced on saturday that next year's g-7 summit will no longer be held at his doral resort in

florida. republicans had an impact. the announcement came in a series of tweets where the president wrote i thought i was doing something good for our country, no, people don't like use bedbugs. by using our trump national doral wresort in miami -- >> so first of all we're going to read through these. >> he's advertising. i'm not reading. unless i mention bedbugs. >> it shows just how corrupt this man is as president of the united states. and the corruption, the stealing from american taxpayers, the using of his office to stuff his pockets with corrupt dollars, it's all laid out. listen to this advertisement in a presidential tweet, which this is an official white house statement according to the white house. it is big, grand, on hundreds of

acres next to miami international airport. has tremendous ballroom and meeting rooms, and each delegation would have had its own 50 to 70 unit building and blah, blah, blah, goes on. and so he keeps going on talking about how great his own -- >> it's good stuff, though. >> it's amazing stuff, mick, and it's just a straight out advertisement, a straight out advertisement for a property that he owns. liberals, moderates, conservatives, they all know it's corrupt. and most of them other than marco rubio actually said, you know what, that's corrupt, you can't do it, and oh, and besides it violates the constitution of the united states. and yet he was going to do it

anyway. >> well, first of all, joe, in any prior administration, obama, bush, that tweet alone from what is his de facto official account for the presidency would have prompted an ethics investigation. that tweet alone, the advertisement. i don't understand how we've gotten to a place where the president thinks we think the only hotel that exists in this entire world and entire country to host these meetings are u.s. hotels, but the u.s. is great country. we have great hotels, big hotels. i do feel bad for marco rubio. he president comes back and cancels it, but of course it was a problem. and there is something to think about here. the fact he did this, this provocation in the middle of a gathering of an impeachment storm says something about the president's mentality and a

situation that his entire staff is dealing with. when how do you handle a principle like this? if you're mulvaney just imagine trying to defend what is basically indefensible. and the way you do it basically if you're richard nixon and you put -- go what everyone does it but of course we don't. and coming occupy on "morning joe" president trump says says he's tired about hearing about russia and all the endless investigations, so why is the doj tripling down on exactly that? nbc's ken dilanian has new reporting next on "morning joe." that is amazing.

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to the wait did frowe just win-ners. prouders everyone uses their phone differently. that's why xfinity mobile let's you design your own data. now you can share it between lines. mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. it's a different kind of wireless network designed to save you money. save up to $400 a year on your wireless bill. plus get $250 back when you buy an eligible phone. call, click, or visit a store today. ken dilanian, you have new reporting for nbc news in a piece entitled "a. g. bar expands mysterious review into origin of russia investigation." tell us about it. >> we started looking closely at this because mick mulvaney in

his now famous news kfrps where he was discussing quid pro quo he said one of it reasons they were withholding the aid is therapy trying to get ukraine to cooperate what he called an ongoing investigation into wrongdoing. and he couldn't remember the name of the guy doing it. someone had to prompt him. it's john durham. barr has appointed durham to conduct a review of the origins of the russia investigation. what we've been able to learn is the review has expanded. durham has added staff, expanded the time line and even looking at conduct that happened after donald trump was inaugurated. we've reported he's been asked to interview many of the cia analysts behind the intelligence community assessment russia attacked the election in 2016 in favor of donald trump. >> ken, can i ask you something? this seems akin to barr conducting an investigation about neil armstrong's walk on

the moon, that it wasn't on the moon. instead it was on a back lot in burbank. for them to even depot dogo dow path, they are ignoring the conclusions of donald trump's fbi director, donald trump's cia director, donald trump's director of national intelligence, u.s. military. you could go to tom bosser, the president's first national security advisor. every single intel leader in america, republicans and democrats alike have all come to the conclusion that it was in fact russia, not ukraine, who tried to interfere with american democracy. >> yeah, and to be clear, joe, it's not 100% certain that durham is investigating this wacky conspiracy theory the server is in ukraine. i would be shocked if he was. that would be a scandal, actually. he does want to talk to people

in ukraine, though, and there's a question about why. in general people are very puzzled what's going on here. because even though there are a lot of questions about barr most people in the legal community i talk to have a lot of regard for durham. he goes pack to the whitey bulger case in boston, he investigated the fbi. he's got a sterling reputation. nonetheless he's been going around the world interviewing people in countries and the only template i can find for what they're doing is it's the george papadopoulos western conspiracy tour. there's no secrecy here, george papadopoulos saying he was setup pie these various figures in the u.k. and it was all a deep state plot. they're also interviewing according to "the new york times" and their own reporting durham is interviewing fbi officials who were involved in the early stages of the investigation, hunting for signs

of bis. but he hasn't interviewed any of the key officials. although he says he wants to talk to former cia director john brennen, he hasn't interviewed comey, andrew mccabe, rod rosenstein. so it's really not clear where he's going with this but a lot of people are very rattled. those cia analysts i mentioned had to hire their own lawyers because no one is sure if this a criminal investigation or not. and if it is a criminal investigation, what is the allegation of wrongdoing? no one i talked to can answer that, guys. >> people are vouching for durham, but people were vouching for barr as well, a guy i personally believe will be remembered as perhaps the most attorney general in the history of the united states of america. so all these assurances mean nothing especially when he's going around and not only going around the world apparently chasing conspiracy theories, whether it's off of the internet or whether it's from papadopoulos' mind, but he's

also trying to get documents from the cia. he's trying to get intel documents that the cia should not give up for a thousand different reasons. you have the president of the united states pressuring the attorney general who's now pressuring an investigator to go around and to do things that have never pin done before. and that is go in and ask the cia to reveal things they shouldn't reveal. >> that's right. you know, people forget that donald trump empowered william barr with his extraordinary authority to demand any classified document he wants in connection with this. and you're absolutely right, there's a lot of unease at the cia and disquiet about the notion of federal prosecutors going over and rootingen their files. not pause hay did anything wrong but these are sources, highly classified documents in our government and they're

questioning what is the need for john durham and his prosecutors to talk to them about that in the absence of any wrongdoing, and what is their expertise. someone said to me john durham is going across the world talking to foreign services, how does he know he's not peag libed to? the cia does that for a living. a federal prosecutor really doesn't have that expertise. so a lot of questions here, guys. >> ken dilanian, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe" a new documentary digs into the trump administration's zero-tolerance policy on immigration. it comes amid new reporting that more children were separated from their families than originally thought. that conversation is next on "morning joe." on "morning joe." [ orchestral music playing ]

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over 1,200 children were likely separated from their

parents at the southwestern border before the trump administration formally announced its zero-tolerance immigration policy. the courthouse news service reports health and human services commander jonathan white told a federal judge on friday that he believes a final accounting would show at least 1,250 additional children who have been separated from their parents before an injunction stopped the practice. the disclosure is part of an ongoing class action lawsuit brought pie the aclu that has resulted in the reunification of children, the additional separations are likely to be confirmed by this friday. that news comes as a new documentary investigates how donald trump turned the issue of immigration into a powerful weapon. joining us now is michael kirk, the director, producer and writer of the new front line film entitled "zero-tolerance." also joining the conversation is

former republican congressman carlos carbello of florida. so michael, i'll start with you and the documentary and what it reveals. >> well, essentially it's the origin story of how donald trump found himself using resentment over immigration as a political weapon. it's from our point of view and what we can tell it's maybe the essential element of his presidency in terms of what he's -- where he's had his most impact. we follow the story of three completely outsized and on the edges people in washington who got to the president, got to the general -- got to the gop, cracked it all open and used immigration as the way to do it. >> and carlos carvalho, the aclu, they've been able to make

some headway in the reunification. can this class action lawsuit do anything to reveal more about what this administration is doing in terms of separations? and how much headway will they have on reuniting all the children with their families? >> that would certainly be wonderful if we could get more information as to how these decisions were made. and it's truly a shame, mika, but during the last congress many of us urged this president, this administration to actually solve immigration reform. if any president could have done it and protthe republican base together on immigration it would have been this president. yet they decided to allow jeff sessions to launch this shock and awe campaign against immigrants and this cruel policy of separating children at the border was the result. this is new information. when we as republicans and democrats stood up and said we will not tolerate this policy and the president went ahead and

ended it about a week after it was announced, we did not know it had actually begun apparently a few weeks before. so this is valid information, and again one of the lowest points of an administration that has had quite a few of them. >> so michael kirk, we've got a clip from the front line documentary that's airing on pbs. it's called "zero tolerance." take a look. >> oh, shut up silly woman said the reptile with a grin. you knew damn well i was a snake before you took me in. >> how donald trump came to use resentment over immigration as a political weapon is a central defining aspect of his presidency. at its heart, a plan by three unlikely outsiders to transform the republican party, make a

trump president and introduce a harsh new approach to immigration. zero taolerance. >> he repurposed to warn in his mind about the dangers of immigration and what the immigrants would do if let inside the united states. you mention the three camp figures in washington who propelled trump to be this anti-immigration character. he's had falling outs with two of them. stephen miller, though, works in the white house and is one of his most powerful aids. tell us about this to reporters late at night to peag one of the most powerful people in washington. >> steve miller may be one of the most fascinating characters inside this administration. he begins hiss career at jeff sessions elbow as a communications staffer. immigration for him seems to be

the heart and soul of where he plans to make his legacy in washington. of all of the figures that have been around president trump during the immigration battles, miller stays there. why is that? we spend a lot of time watching him climb the ladder, get inside those washington knife fights that were happening at the white house, still survive it. and finally as the president realizes, a president who waivers a lot on things like zero-tolerance, family separation, daca, it's miller who holds him to the center. and he finally rises to the top. and why? because an election is coming and donald trump knows that to feed his base immigration is the central issue. >> as a former republican congressman, can you explain something to me? i'm baffled how with the child separation policy it seems like ground-hog day.

you hear congress men and women. every day they say they hate the policy, they don't want it, the trump administration says they're changing it, and then they say no, not really, they go back to it. and now this reporting there were over a thousand children that were separated from their parents, why can congress not do anything about this terrible policy that no one should like and god -- i was about to say god plesz, but i don't want to say god bless, but those people who do really need to examine their souls. >> one of the important things to recognize, by the way, is that miller says, every time the picture comes up, every time statistic like 1,200 or 1,500 children separated from their parents, every time the propublicaado is played miller says that's a win for the president. and what he means pie that the is his base, he likes to see

that. that's their calculation, and oi think it's the calculation of a lot of republicans in congress as well as the evidence clearly demonstrates. >> i will say this is one of those issues where republicans from suburban districts, more centrist districts really struggle with because they defend and we're seeing it now with this syria example. republicans really resentful. unfortunately not a lot of them speaking up saying this should end, this is unacceptable. the president immediately pulled back and what had become for a week or ten days a mass policy of child separation really did come to an end. but still, everything that we've heard is true. this is the issue that most

effectively divides the country which is why i think is the issue that most immediately needs to get resolved so people like donald trump and others stop using it to split this country in a very dangerous way. >> in 2018 we saw the trump strategy on immigration and politics in full fledge, the thrust to militarize the border which were carried out, we saw in my colleague's book that he had pondered asking soldiers to shoot people in the legs. we saw the fear mongering, the propaganda what would happen once they got here, the caravan. it failed. it was a rat for your party. why then do we a doubling down on this strategy now? >> because that's the mentality of the steve bannon's of the world, the steve millers and you're right this was a policy that was rejected during the 2018 mid-terms, however, it was

a policy also effective during the 2016 campaign. and the irony is this president allows himself to be influenced by all of these individuals because he has expressed a willingness, for example, to help dreamers, to provide them a path to citizenship. in private conversations that i had with him at least he spoke in reasonable ways about immigration. but these tacticians, the bannon, the millers and others really do convince them that this is the way to win and ultimately that's what donald trump wants, to win at any cost. >> former congressman carlos ca carbelo, thank you very much. and as we go to break, a story that caught my eye from vermont. members of a girl's high school soccer team were hit with yellow cards for sending a very public message. after their team scored a goal, the players removed their jerseys to reveal shirts reading

#equal pay. the push for pay equity in sports especially soccer was fueled by the 2014 womens u.s. hockey team and its star players, know your values very own the lamaro twins. among the equal pay supporters for months senator pat leahy who gave the team a shot out, go girls, i love it. by the way, we're starting something new on know your value.com to start off every week. every monday log onto know your value.com for that extra motivation to start the week. this week we're thinking a lot about grace. as we prepare to say good-bye to a great friend. we were shocked by the passing of elijah cummings, and he's been on my mind a lot. especially because of how grace and empathy seemed to really be the driving forces behind this great man. i was so inspired by elijah, and

it was his grace that always made his message so powerful. it's why joe and i asked him to marry us. so i've been thinking about how grace really enhances our ability to be effective communicators and how grace can add such value to your relationships at work and in life. so get your monday motivation only at knowyourvalue.com. it is live now. still ahead this morning, our next guest will be a treat for anyone that is a fan of veep, i'm obsessed with voo"veep." st r with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system.

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♪ what about you, do you have any skeletons? >> yeah. >> okay, here we go. >> yeah, i got one. when i was a kid, a pbunch of od er kids dared me to kill a stray dog. >> and you did? you killed a dog? >> okay, well -- right before andrew and i split up, i don't know if you remember but his car caught fire.

i did it. i torch cars, you know, give me the nuclear codes. >> i love that show so much. the final episode of "veep" may be behind us, but the show will live on in our hearts and minds. joining us now, the actor that played dan eagan, reid scott, he starreds in the new movie "black and blue." i have to ask you, you were such a jerk, you were so gross, you were so wrong. do people come up to you and say that? >> yeah, i guess i'm flattered that we made a realistic show. i have to remind people it was not a documentary. and i was not really a sociopath who killed animals, but that

experience is one that will stay with me the rest of my life. it was an incredible show and we're so impressed by how many people really love it and people are still finding it and it is really kood that evecool that s meet someone that just started season one, or they're halfway through season three. >> you just see something in all of those characters that just, it hits you in the -- instinctive gut about the grossest stuff in terms of politics. so tell us about black and blue. >> it is really fun, dark cop drama. and it has a message as well. naomi harris is a rookie police officer. i'm her partner who has kept

secrets from her, and it is all about the gray area in a police officer. we deal with corruption, with abuses of power, and it backs a lot of messages into a tightly wound action thriller. so congrats. there was a minute where julia louis-dreyfus asked for help from china, and talk about the parallels between the series and what ewe syou're seeing now. >> there are moments that would happen in the donald trump administration and would you say no, that is to unrealistic.

"veep" has had the ability to predict some of the uncertainties. there has been a bit pitched, and we're like this is too much, will people even buy that this would happen, so the moment where she even colluded with china, it was like this is science fiction and eight months latter later it is happening. the last season we definitely were influenced by what we're seeing in politics right noud and we tried to reflect that without regurgitating it. and how absurd the show already is, be a reflection of what we're witnessing. >> let's go back to your movie quickly. your partner is a bit of a whistle-blower and speaks out in the community and is then

shunned. talk about that a little bit and the pressures, how you depicted speaking out and that translated on the screen. >> i think it is an incredibly important thing to allow whistle-blowers to maintain and be heard. i don't like the name whistle-blower, i think it has a negative connotation. they're doing us a service. they're letting us know something that is going on. our movie for an action thriller was really quite brilliant and was packed with messages, and they're all in there, but you get to let the messages wash over you while you're being entertained by this cop chase

thriller, but the topic of whistle-blowers is something i have been paying a lot of attention to in the last ten years. >> all right, reid scott, thank you so much for being on the show, the new film "black and blue" out this theaters nationwide this friday on october 25th and you can catch reid in "why women kill" on cbs all access and in all of those episodes of "veep." >> most of my final thoughts are about the yankees losing. question see if republicans start to pick up on other issues as we discussed. if they broke rang to the syria. and in doral hosting the g 7, what issues will they take the

president on. >> i'm thinking about the testimony and we'll see if state officials come forward. >> and i'm waiting to see if impeachment will get the president to tone it down, toe his line, and try to keep it a bis more disciplined the next year. but probably not. that does it for us. >> hello, i'm stephanie ruhle. it is a brand new week of impeachment related testimonies and the challenges facing president trump and his team on this monday morning. they're also trying to find a number of self inflicted political wounds including the decision to