thanks so much for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> hi, everyone, it's 4:00 in new york. bracing for impact. donald trump has been told by close associates that at least one outside adviser that he will be impeached and the only thing standing between him and removal from office is those 53 republican senators. that's according to a trump ally and outside adviser in contact with this white house, who describes trump's small inner circle as quietly coming to grips with the reality that impeachment is happening and a majority of americans support it. that may be why donald trump took it upon himself to serve as his own cleanup crew today, trying to do what mick mulvaney, his beleaguered acting chief of staff who last week confessed to the quid pro quo with ukraine that's at the heart of the impeachment proceeding, was supposed to do instead of sending the trump white house into greater crisis than usual. that crisis over the weekend collided with ongoing uproar from within donald trump's own

party over his actions in syria as well as his decision to award the g7 summit of world leaders to his own golf resort, a move he ultimately reversed over the weekend as the pressure from inside the gop built. so it's against the backdrop of that three-pronged crisis that the president held court today for a lie-filled question and answer session with reporters that was so full of inaccuracies and misrepresentations that we're showing it to you to illustrate his delusions, not to amplify them. consider yourself warned. >> i made a perfect call. not a good call. perfect call. in fact, a friend of mine who's a great lawyer said did you know this would be the subject of all of this scrutiny? because the way you expressed yourself, this is like a perfect call. everyone said -- that's true. we helped the kurds. they're no angels. but we helped the kurds. and we never gave the kurds a commitment that we'd stay for 400 years to protect them. they've been fturks for 300 yea

know of. >> i think they're lousy politicians. two things they have. they're vicious and they stick together. they don't have mitt romney in their midst. they don't have people like that. >> other presidents, if you look, other presidents were wealthy. not huge wealth. george washington was actually considered a very, very rich man at the time. but they ran their businesses. george washington they say had two desks. he had a presidential desk and a business desk. >> i don't think you people with this phony emoluments clause -- and by the way, i would say that it's cost me anywhere from 2 to 5 billion dollars to be president. and that's okay. between what i lose and what i could have made. i would have made a fortune if i just ran my business. >> as for the emoluments clause that donald trump there calls phony, well, it's just a section of the constitution. article 1 section 9 clause 8 to be specific, which stipulates, "no person holding any office of

profit or trust under them shall without the consent of congress accept of any president, emol' yumt, office, or title of any kind, whatever, from any king or foreign state." doesn't seem phony to us. nor does the reality that republican critiques of trump and his policies are clearly getting under his skin. critiques underscored by this report over the weekend from chris wallace of fox news. >> i talked to a very well-connected republican in washington this week, somebody whose name you would know well, who says that if the house votes to impeach and it gets to a trial in the senate there is now a 20% chance he believes -- obviously it's just an estimate -- now a 20% chance enough republicans will vote with the democrats to remove the president. >> that reporting -- this reporting from the "washington post" encapsulates the position the white house finds itself in. "president trump, whose paramount concern long has been showing strength, has entered

the most challenging stretch of his term, weakened on virtually every front and in danger of being forced from office as the impeachment inquiry intensifies." from our friend phil rucker, that's where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. the aforementioned phil rucker at the table which we love. white house bureau chief of the "washington post." matt miller, former chief spokesman from the the department of justice, chief public affairs officer from moveon.org karine jean-pierre plus former republican congressman now an independent, david jolly. take us through that reporting because it seems to put the finest point of all on everything we're seeing and exactly where this white house is. and it's my understanding some have even acknowledged it's where they are. >> well, nicolle, if you look at the last couple of weeks for this administration, it's been weakness on every front. you start with syria. the president was -- his plea was rejected by president erdogan of turkey. a number of republican senators, allies of president trump, spoke out against him. you look at what's happening

with the g7 decision, the backlash from republican lawmakers to the idea of trump holding this international summit of world leaders at his own personal property. and you look at the impeachment inquiry. the white house put out that letter a few weeks ago saying nobody in this administration's going to cooperate with what they saw as a kangaroo court inquisition of an impeachment inquiry, and yet one after the other officials in the government including political appointees of president trump's have been going to capitol hill and testifying for eight hours, nine hours, ten hours, telling all behind closed doors to democratic investigators. and that just speaks to the trouble that president trump has politically right now where he does not have control over his own party, over his own government. he also doesn't have control over conservative media. you're seeing drudge report, fox news, other media organs that support the president turning on him in various ways and to various degrees. >> and i get different glimpses into the kind of grasp or lack of it that trump has on his new

reality. i was told today that he understands the republicans in the senate are the only thing standing between him and removal from office, that he will be impeached. but that doesn't explain the ongoing conduct and the refusal to pull back in his decision in syria which has been universally critiqued. >> well, i think, nicolle, the people around the president see that as the reality, that he will probably be impeached by the house. the momentum's going that direction. it's unclear if trump himself recognizes that and truly understands the peril. this is someone who said when he campaigned for office that he could shoot somebody in broad daylight on fifth avenue and get away with it. and that's been his mindset in office. he knows that those republican senators are going to have his back no matter what he does because they've had it again and again and again through all these transgressions. and this potentially could be different. i mean, we have to see how the process unfolds but there are people around the president who tell me just like they tell you that this is a real moment of concern for him. >> i wonder too -- i mean, for

all the other crises, it was racism around charlottesville, it was things that seemed to debase the office, and his base has proven immune from the debasement of the office of the presidency. but i wonder if it's immune from endangerment. i mean, he is now endangering the united states and our allies by leaving isis roaming around europe, and it's not too far from europe to here. he's now projecting as you said weakness. when he says stonewall congress and there's literally a parade of people from the executive branch heading up to congress, weakness and incompetence and endangering the public are not things he's tested his base for. >> no. and one of the most startling things happened saturday night pretty late when the president tweeted he was going to pull back, reverse course and fold on his decision to have that g7 summit at doral at his own property. we've not really seen that from him before. we've not seen him fold and cave to public pressure the way he did this weekend. we actually had to go in and

update this season of weakness story late saturday night to make the front page of the sunday paper because we've just not seen that. and that was really startling. and i think a reminder for the people watching all of this that the republicans in congress are actually standing up on that issue. >> you know, i watched the administration the way new parents watch the baby monitor, for any like flashes -- because having worked in the white house you sort of know the signs of dissent. and you tweeted about one that i noticed as well. the justice department distancing itself fromfrom rudy giuliani. you've got mike pompeo with this spectacularly horrific appearance on a sunday show yesterday. i understand from a couple sources he was very grumpy about. you've got mulvaney who had his clock cleaned by chris wallace. the weakness and the failure is everywhere. >> it feels like a moment to me where people inside the zrangs are starting to think more about their personal future than they are about the future of the administration. that is the reason why you see some of these witnesses come up and be willing to testify.

some of the witnesses are coming because they feel it's their patriotic duty to do so but then you have other people like gordon sondland who are worried their reputations are going to be destroyed. i suspect -- it's hard to know why mick mulvaney did what he did at his press conference. i suspect the reason he did it is because people were starting to leak about his involvement in withholding the aid and he wanted to get out there -- >> leaked? i mean, fiona hill testified in 9 1/2 hours of testimony that john bolton assigned it to the lawyer for the nsc he was so scared about it. >> he wanted to get out there and make clear it was the president -- >> it was the president -- >> that's right. it wasn't mick mulvaney's drug deal, he was just the courier. so i think that is a dangerous spot for the administration to be in when you have all of these people, the justice department, the secretary of state wasn't really willing to defend some of the things on the sunday show yesterday, starting to worry that this thing is going badly enough that they don't want to go down with it. >> it would seem that in the testimony, and if you're really just worried about a universe of 34 senators, if they're smart

they can now stitch together a fact pattern that points directly to donald trump and rudy giuliani. >> not only can pe put together the fact pattern but i think that makes this different from charlottesville and all of the other things he's asked them to bear over the last three years, is this time they're going to have to vote. you know, republican senators have gotten very good at looking at their phones when they're walking downtown halls and reporters are asking them questions or giving answers like i didn't see that tweet or i don't respond to the tweets or just not having to weigh in on all of the things he does that debase the office. but the difference is now they're going to have to vote when this gets to the senate and the explanations the white house has given them, the propositions they're being asked to endorse, that it's okay to ask a foreign government to interfere in the election, that it's okay -- briefly, it's okay to condition a meeting with the president on him launching an investigation, which isn't in dispute. that was in kurt volker's testimony. text messages are not disputed. that's a tough thing for a republican senator to endorse. and if the white house doesn't come up with some better answers

that's what they're going to have to do if they vote not to convict and remove him from office. >> so call me skeptical that there are 34 spines on capitol -- or i guess you'd need 20 republican spines to vote to convict. but here are a couple trying to show that they have spines. mitt romney and lindsey graham. >> he went on tv and said china, will you investigate my political opponent. it's wrong. it's a mistake. it was shocking for -- in my opinion for the president to do so and a mistake for him to do so. i can't imagine coming to a different point of view. we certainly can't have presidents asking foreign countries to provide something of political value, that is after all against the law. >> are you open-minded if more comes out that you could support impeachment? >> sure. i mean, show me something that is a crime. if you could show me that you know, trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing.

>> well, he engages in a quid pro quo on the phone call where he says, i have to ask you a favor, though. fiona hill i believe just testified that by the summer, this past summer, the military aid was attached to investigations into burisma that would damage the bidens. i'm not sure what lindsey's waiting for. >> so the votes might not be there today. but let's see what happens by december because every united states senator is witnessing what we're witnessing. this is a lawless and deceitful man peddling in ignorance, unworthy, nearly impossible to defend if you're a united states senator on a daily basis. and this is where the calling of history really is upon 53 republican senators. the president has set his legacy in stone. we know it. republican senators now have a chance to do the same for theirs. we know the president professed to wanting to violate the emoluments clause. an emol' yumt is a profess. he tried to sole source the trump organization in that

contract. we know he was named in a criminal conspiracy in new york. we know he obstructed justice in the mueller report. we know he's obstructed congress. and we know he's abuse his office by asking ukraine to investigate the bidens. it is not as marco rubio said the president joking with the press. it's not as lindsey said in another interview democrats trying to destroy the nation. it's not as marsha blackburn said a witch hunt. and for susan collins it is more than inappropriate. for ted cruz it's not a lynch mob. and for john cornyn it's not just politics. it's about the constitution. and i think the reporting late today that the house is considering a clear abuse of power article it inevitably is going to go in that direction because i don't see how mitt romney votes no on a clear abuse of power article. and i think there will be other senators that follow as well. the question is do you send over other articles or not? but for the first time i think there's a period now in the next six, eight, ten weeks where we might see more republican senators speak out. >> well, let me just lay this down clearly because i've been

struggling and grasping for some sort of parallel to the republican senators that really -- they were -- they acted as an independent body during the bush administration. can you imagine if george w. bush had asked the israelis for help in helping finding chads? he would have been impeached in six weeks by john cornyn, by ted cruz, who hated his guts. by all these guys. what is the trump spell -- >> imagine if a sitting united states senator running for president, let's say elizabeth warren, took to the microphone and said iran, will you lead an investigation into the trumps' kids profiting off of contracts in saudi arabia? what do you think lindsey graham would do about that? it certainly wouldn't be to say it's no big deal, nothing i heard would violate any law or constitution. they'd bring her up for censure in the united states senate. there is hypocrisy. but to matt's point, this is going to be the first time republican senators have to vote. and whether you like lindsey graham or not, whether you think

he's a wise man or not, he said one thing of wisdom to me about six years ago. he said presidents come and go, senators last forever. these senators are going to be around long after donald trump is gone and this vote matters. >> and you have to go back six years to find something smart lindsey said. i'll let that be the lead here. the democrats so far have not made a misstep. they haven't taken the bait on all the attacks on adam schiff. they haven't dumped everything that we could come up with sitting around here into the impeachment investigation. and they have produced. they have produced a stream of witnesses. and most of the information is flowing from the witnesses themselves or their attorneys it would appear. >> democrats have been really smart about this because hatheye just following the facts. they're trying not to make this political. which is probably the smartest thing they're doing. they're just saying look, we know a criminal -- he made a criminal, you know, ask of ukraine and we have an impeachment inquiry and we're going to follow that and that's it. end of story. you said something earlier that i really wanted to lean in on a little bit.

you said that there was a line crossed, right? we had all these domestic abuses. right? we had charlottesville. we had babies in cages. and nothing -- >> separation. >> separation. nothing moved with the republicans. but this is something that's so clear-cut. right? we're talking about national security. right? when we look at syria, we're talking about national security. when we look at ukraine we're talking about weakness. the g7. corruption. and i think it's a place where republicans could not, they had to say something, even privately and quietly. they had to say something. even with the g7. donald trump was shocked that republicans said something. and it showed that republicans can have influence on this president. and so i think this is where we are right now because he's crossed a line and he's also shown that he has no loyalty or loyalty is only one direction and that's towards him. >> i guess the only sort of deepening of that analysis on my

part would be that it's the brazenness. because i think he crossed a line in all those other instances too. he just didn't stand on the south lawn of the white house and do it in front of the cameras trying to -- >> right. >> so i think that part of what has maybe woken them up from their stupor or their slumber, whatever you want to call it, is the brazenness. >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. he basically admitted to the criminality. and just said it doesn't matter -- >> and made a t-shirt about it. >> made a t-shirt about it. right. mulvaney-e said two things that were true. he said -- basically he admitted to the quid pro quo and he said get over it, you guys need to get over it. that is what donald trump is. he is who he is. the wheels are not off. they've been off for a long time. i mean, he is just unfit. and you can't hide that anymore. >> nicolle, i think a seminal moment in all of this as rucker and others look back and report on it years from now is going to be when the white house released the summary of the phone call where donald trump says please investigate the bidens.

because for the 53 senators, for the 100 senators but the 53 republicans, that was the moment from which you can't get back. nothing exculpates the president from then. every witness corroborates it. but it's the reason the united states senator is saying he did nothing wrong-s because donald trump released the summary. >> where he does everything wrong. when we come back, when you watch sean hannity, donald trump's chief of staff was called dumb by the president's defender in chief, sean hannity, for confessing to the heart of the trump impeachment. and the failure at cleanup yesterday on fox news. we'll show to you. also ahead as donald trump blunders into the biggest foreign policy mistake of his prrngs one that leaves isis free to attack again, he calls his defense secretary by the wrong name, erasing any doubt that when it comes to u.s. national security it's donald trump and his big brain against the world. and steve schmidt is back. he weighs in on impeachment and more. don't go anywhere. hment and more don't go anywhere.

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- when you're volunteering, "it's not my job."r that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. the white house chief of staff's on-camera confession to the act of corruption at the heart of donald trump's impeachment investigation is a plot twist no one saw coming. but that smoking gun may not be what comments him his job. the television-obsessed president could not have liked this appearance by mulvaney on "fox news sunday." >> you were asked specifically by jonathan karl, was investigating democrats one of the conditions for holding up the aid, was that part of the quid pro quo, and you said it happens all the time. >> go back and watch what i said

before. i don't know if you guys can cue it up or not. there was a long answer about corruption. >> you totally said that. >> then i said the exact same thing i just said no, which is that he mentioned in passing yes. but the reason that we held back the aid were the two reasons i mentioned. >> not only did you say that investigating the democrats was one of the three conditions, not two that you had just said you had talked about, investigating the democrats was part of the quid pro quo, you also said, if i may, it was part of the justice department investigation into the origins of the russia probe. >> there is not a quid pro quo -- >> you were asked by jonathan karl-u described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. >> reporters will use their language all the time. so my language never said quid pro quo. >> in your first answer which i gave you said "that's why we held up the money." first you just said here that it was for two reasons. now you're acknowledging it was for three reasons. if you held up the money for three reasons, what was -- that's a quid pro quo. you've got to satisfy us on --

maybe the president backed off that. but that was the proposition here. >> i'm not acknowledging there's three reasons. again, let's -- >> you said three reasons. >> you could -- i recognize that. >> chris wallace doing an amazing job pressing mulvaney on the original confession, which included a detailed list of three conditions that the aid to ukraine was tied to. >> three issues for that. the corruption in the country,ing whether or not other countries were participating in the support of the ukraine and whether or not they were cooperating in an ongoing investigation with our department of justice. that's completely legitimate. >> mulvaney's not the only one drowning in flop sweat after disastrous appearances on yesterday's sunday shows. here's mike pompeo with george stephanopoulos. >> i'll tell you what i saw transpiring and how president trump was working to make the evaluation about whether it was appropriate to provide this assistance. >> but that's what i'm asking you is would it be appropriate to condition that -- >> george, i'm not going to get into hypotheticals and secondary things based on what someone else has said.

george, you would have never done it when you were the spokesman. i'm not going to do. >> except it's not a hypothetical. we saw it with the chief of staff zblsh it is, george. you just said if -- you just said if this happened. that is by definition a hypothetical. >> the chief of staff said it did. >> george, you asked me if this happened. it's a hypothetical. i've told you what i observed, what i saw the process related to this very funding. >> that is -- i was a communications director for the white house. i didn't get a lot of points for communicating. that was the worst appearance by an executive branch official i've ever seen in my career. >> and also it's the longest three-second pause in any answer. >> when colin powell's aides swung the camera away i cringed less. and i didn't have a dog -- what's he hiding? >> i wish we could answer that. clearly we saw this with mulvaney but also with pompeo.

these guys are trying to distance themselves from the problem without engaging -- >> let me just try to understand that because i'm sure -- the witnesses all worked for that guy. what is he distancing himself -- either he was the most incompetent and detached secretary of state in the nation's history, had no idea that everyone that worked at the state department was hair on fire alarmed and concerned about the corruption being carried out by rudy giuliani or he was part of it. that's it. those are pompeo's only paths. >> and one piece of context about secretary pompeo. he's not a secretary of state who spends all of his time traveling and not in touch with the president and running his own operation. he's literally in the oval office multiple times a week. he has lunch every week with the president. he is around. he's one of the president's closest advisers on tons of issues beyond the portfolio of the state department. so the idea that he didn't know what was going on or wasn't aware of these conversations just doesn't match up with everything that we know about how he conducts himself as the

secretary. >> so i should say that a lot of my republican friends say he's great off tv. really? >> nicolle, they're all guilty. just -- you could turn the sound off and watch an interview with pompeo and an interview with mulvaney and an interview with mike pence and tell they've got something to hide. think about it. von hilliard asked -- not even cornered, just asked him in a spray, asked mike pence something and he couldn't answer the question. this is pompeo's second time coming off of nashville last week. mick mulvaney showed us what he's trying to hide over the weekend. and this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. one of the reasons i think senators are so tepid in their defense of the president is the normal washington actors that would give them a stakeholder defense would be mike pence, mike pompeo, or mick mulvaney. the establishment republicans. but they're looking at those three saying what are these clowns doing in the circus car? because something bad went down and because nobody has a good excuse for it. >> let me just drill down on

this. pompeo either had no idea that the u.s. ambassador to ukraine was being strashd by rudy giuliani and other appointees, that gordon sondland, the trump-appointed ambassador to the eu was really uncomfortable that donald trump had directed him to work with rudy or he was a part of it. he was either calling the plays or oblivious to them. >> i think you're absolutely right. i think you have the president's man, pompeo, pence, and mick mulvaney, and they are supposed to spin this away. right? they're supposed to make this better. because we have to understand, the president is watching this. this is their job. and you can't spin this away. right? you can't -- i mean, there's nothing you can do to really say that donald trump didn't do anything or no one knew anything that happened because he admitted to it. donald trump himself admitted to all of it. so i think that's the problem, when you can't -- so many lies come out of this administration. they can't keep it straight. but also you can't turn

something that it's not -- you can't make something that didn't happen or happened not happen. >> i also think that the idea that mick mulvaney was sent out on chris wallace to do, you know, the rudy version with chuck todd, you know, truth isn't truth, or kellyanne, he doesn't have it. i mean, kellyanne and rudy giuliani have it. they can stand there and say up is down, down is up. mick mulvaney doesn't have it, whatever it is. and maybe that's a good thing. maybe the confession becomes part of the impeachment thing. but the idea that he had -- i worked with chris wallace the entire time i worked in republican politics. and you leave your b.s. and your lies behind when you sit on that man's set. >> just think about what he's asking us to believe, that there were two reasons that the aid was held up. one was corruption, which the president never mentioned in this phone call to zelensky. the other is that the europeans weren't doing their part. and then there was this third thing that wasn't a reason that was this ukraine server issue,

which the server by the way, isn't in ukraine, it's at the dnc. >> which tom bossert told us on television that he told the president over and over again was malarkey. >> so mulvaney wants us to believe that the president was concerned about that but that wasn't the reason the aid was withheld even though the president went out of his way to bring it up on the phone call to zelensky. the answer doesn't make sense. that's the ultimate problem here. none of them have done what you're supposed to do at the beginning of managing a scandal like this, which is to figure out the landscape, figure out what all of your exposure-s what happened, and figure out what you're going to do about if. are you going to come out and say it didn't happen, are you going to say it happened but it was this guy's fault and he's gone? are you going to say you know, what we made a mistake, we're going to amoll jooiz, it's not impeachable. they've done none of that. one day this didn't happen. the next day this happened but it's okay. the next day it happened -- oh, wait, i take it back, it didn't happen. they've been all over the place. >> i think david jolly when donald trump says the call was perfect what he's saying is it is perfectly fine to tie

military aid to dirt on my rivals. >> of course. >> i think we are not hearing him. when he says over and over again, i'm told he says it in private, that the call was perfect, he thinks it's perfectly fine to ask a foreign leader to dipping dirt -- >> that's why the emoluments clause is funny. this is a very nixonian chapter for donald trump where if the president does it it's necessarily legal. and the inflection point to look for if we apply some lessons of history is does there come a moment where the narrative from mulvaney and trump's defenders on the hill pivots to there should be a lesser sentence, not a defense of the president -- >> i take the fifth. >> but understand that during clinton's impeachment there were four articles that were presented. only two passed. but at the last minute bill clinton sent bill richardson, who was a cabinet secretary at the time, to negotiate with democrats on a lesser sentence, asking republicans that controlled the house to vote on a censure resolution because they would get enough democrats it would health nation. i donenn't think this presidents it in him but the people around

him are isn't that right enough to know the president's going to be impeached. do they begin to shift their narrative to what we're hearing from lindsey graham that hey, it might have been bad but it's not impeachable. >> we will see. thank you for spending time with us. after the break, regardless of what happens next, donald trump's legacy will always include this. he abandoned u.s. allies in the fight against isis and sent isis fighters free to kill again. we'll go inside donald trump's biggest foreign policy debacle to date. that's next. date. that's next. welcome to the place where people go to learn about their medicare options... before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! well, you've come to the right place. it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here's why... medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. only about 80% of your medical costs. this part is up to you... yeah, everyone's a little surprised to learn that one.

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as you know, most of the isis fighters that we captured, we, not obama, we. we captured them. me. our country captured them. working with others including the kurds. and we helped them. don't forget. we helped the kurds. everyone said the kurds helped us. that's true. we helped the kurds. they're no angels. but we helped the kurds. i'm the one that did the capturing. i'm the one that knows more about it than you people or the fake pundits. we have a good relationship with

the kurds. but we never agreed to protect the kurds. we fought with them for 3 1/2 to 4 years. we never agreed to protect the kurds for the rest of their lives. >> he never stops taking my breath away. what you witnessed there was some of the president's ignorance, his delusions when it comes to american foreign policy, his disdain for protecting american allies. in this case it was the abandonment of the syrian kurds, our closest, most reliable allies in the fight against isis. and his disregard for keeping the world safe. because of course the withdrawal of troops in syria has now left a path wide open for the resurgence of isis. his grasp of the situation was already in question. here's a tweet he sent yesterday, which he's since deleted, quoting his defense secretary mark esper but calling him mark esperanto instead. and that's not all. the tweet was riddled with unsupported statements and there were reports that administration officials were confused by the quote since defense secretary esper hadn't said any of the

things trump quoted him saying publicly. for the ultimate depiction of how trump's syria policy is being received around the world, here are our friends the syrian kurds earlier today hurling potatoes and other produce at u.s. military vehicles as they pull out of northern syria. joining our conversation in the knick of time, former republican strategist steve schmidt. welcome back, my friend. >> thank you. >> where are we? >> we're in trouble. >> yeah? >> you see america in retreat. literally. with those trucks driving out of hard-won territory precipitously with no care to have the withdrawals done. and i do think it's legitimate to have a discussion about u.s. national security strategy in the 18th year in afghanistan with no end in sight and across the broader middle east, but we see from this the strengthening of the iranian regime, the strengthening of vladimir putin and russia. we see hundreds if not thousands of isis fighters have been freed

from detention. they will go back to the business of terror and killing. he has destabilized the region. and he sent a signal to all of our adversaries all over the world, which is this. now is the time to make your move because the united states is in retreat. the u.s.-led liberal global order that emerged out of the second world war that was architected by fdr, trump is dismantling it. what you heard was rhetoric today that could have been straight out of the 1930s, from the era of isolationism, that led to the world's greatest tragedy. what came after that was the united states filling the role as the world's indispensable nation. and we are clearly deeply in an hour of retreat on that front. and we don't know what the consequences of that are five years from now, ten years from now, fifteen years from now. but we will be feeling it for a long time. and it's not just this.

it's his decision to pull out of the transpacific partnership, which was celebrated with cheers in beijing as he seized the united states -- >> i want to get back to -- i take your point about interventionism. you and i have had debates over the years about isolationism, interventionalism. this is different. isis, these are terrorists. these aren't al qaeda terrorists whose plots are detectable by intelligence agencies around the world. these are -- i mean, isis fighters going back to europe is something that trump seems to my doesn't imperil americans here at home. this is not a -- we cover this as a foreign policy debacle. this is also potentially a terrorism debacle. >> of course it is. it's that we saw the brutality, the violence, the mayhem for years of the islamic state. you have thousands of isis fighters. they're not going to go into a jobs training program.

they're not going to community college. they're going back into the business of killing and killing westerners. it's a profound security threat for the united states. and of course when you look at the totality of this situation you look at turkey's aggressiveness and its actions, and it's very quickly followed by the turkish president saying that he wants turkey to have nuclear weapons. and so what we see is a destabilizing of this entire region, another round in the metastasization that we've seen play out for 20 years, this one authored solely and clearly in the mind of donald trump. not listening to advisers, not listening to experts. he pulled it out of his hat and the country is less safe because of it. >> are you surprised -- i mean, i know you stepped away from sort of the daily coverage of the trump administration, but i think since you've been gone mattis has resigned. it was over this syria policy. you spent time in iraq. you understand better than people that haven't been part of

our military what exactly the kurds do. they fight alongside us. we trust them with the lives of our greatest treasure, the men and women of our military. he cut and run on them. to see images of kurds throwing produce at american tanks, i've never seen anything like that. >> before donald trump we would have understood the concept of national honor, that we don't cut and run on our allies, the people that fought with us, that united states foreign policy is not built on transactions, it's built on values. and the kurdish fighters helped implement a successful policy. united states special operators, special forces, special operations command working with the indigenous fighters, the kurds, who suffered 11,000 to 15,000 casualties in the fight against isis. but it was not american conventional ground troops in the fight. and that was a positive development across the whole history of our wars in the

middle east since september 11th. and all of a sudden donald trump cuts and runs on the kurds, puts the kurds into an alliance with tehran and with assad because it's the only place they can go -- >> and to russia. >> and to russia. and that will weaken us in the long term in a region where america's presence is likely to be elongated, not truncated because of the rashness of the decision. >> what do you think keeps the people there who are still there? they watch this. they sat in the tank, they read about it on twitter when the white house had to confirm that yes, in a call with erdogan donald trump said we're getting out, we're turning over northern syria to the turks. pompeo is apparently on the call. but you worked in the white house. what do you think is happening in there when you see this? >> i'm happy to jump back in there because my pause would have been longer than pompeo's. i think it's clearly that people have a fetish for power, a

proximity to power, and i think from earlier in the conversation listening about the debasement, the depravity, the dishonesty, all of it accumulating, all of his devolvement to this point that we're at this afternoon, but there's no evidence that any republicans in the senate are going to put their obligations of their duty and their oath above their fealty and allegiance to donald trump. >> not yet. >> if that happens, it will be remarkable given the fidelity they've shown to him thus far. >> all right. steve's not going anywhere. we have to sneak in a break, though. after that brand new reporting on the relative calm before the storm. the back room strategy for democrats ahead of filing their articles of impeachment. the big question, with so much to choose from what exactly should those articles include? a? with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes.

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12 subpoenas, six witnesses, 53 hours of testimony so far. and we're not even a month into the impeachment inquiry. that torrid pace not expected to slow this week. in fact, it could be the opposite. our colleague heidi przybilla reports, "house democrats are zeroing in on a framework for their impeachment case against donald trump that quote multiple sources involved in deliberations say will distill into a simple abuse of power narrative involving his alleged misconduct related to ukraine." another key witness is expected to appear before house investigators tomorrow. bill taylor. he's the acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine. he's a crucial eyewitness to controversy. you remember, he was the official who voiced serious concerns, over text i might add, about the ukraine situation to gordon sondland. even hinting at a quid pro quo. nbc news correspondent heidi przybilla joins us now. heidi, how does the evidence determine this abuse of power as a framework for the articles of

impeachment? >> right, nicolle, according to multiple sources involved in this process they tell me everything that has happened in ukraine, which is where they want this impeachment process to stay focused, falls under abuse of power. whether it is pushing out the ambassador, marie yovanovitch, whether it is that phone call pressuring zelensky, whether it is installing the three amigos as they're so-called, the president's political confidants to then push the ukrainians to cook up charges on the bidens. that all falls under abuse of power. that is very much the point that pelosi, according to my sources, has been pushing in these meetings and has been making very clear where she wants the focus to be. now, what is still up in the air, nicolle, that is the charges on obstruction, contempt of congress. the debate centers not on ukraine because that will definitely be in there. they believe they have the goods with pat cipollone's october 8th

letter saying essentially we're not going to cooperate. that shows intent to obstruct. the question is whether they're going to include all of these other things like from the mueller investigation and what evidence should go in there from that investigation as well. there's a big debate going on right now. >> phil rucker, it strikes me that all the things that worked for them with mueller failed with impeachment. >> and we should keep in mind impeachment is a political process in the congress, right? and to heidi's point in her great reporting, it seems like pelosi's trying to be bulletproof and build the best case they can on one issue that the american people can understand and not throw a bunch of spaghetti against a wall, not draw in the russia stuff, not talk about the emoluments clause and the tax returns and on and on and on, but focus on this ukraine episode because it's clear-cut and the facts are there. based on the interrogations, the interviews that they've been doing. >> she check-mates republicans too because you're either for or against abuse of power. >> yeah, that's exactly right. i think what phil said is right. the important thing to understand about the way the democrats are building this case, they're not playing for impeachment. they're playing for removal from

office. they're not just trying to impeach trump and dirty him up and make it harder for him to win re-election, they're playing for those 20 votes in the senate. the way you get those 20 votes in the senate if they're gettable, and they may not be, is strongest case that moves public opinion. it's why they will put together i think the most simply easy to understand articles. witnesses who are friendly who lay out the story to see that if there's enough there to move public opinion enough that you have enough republican senators that say i can't vote to keep this guy in office. that's their strategy. >> and there are no deep state strongmen to rail against. these are all members of the executi executive branch. >> i think with the mueller report, mueller wasn't leaking. it was just donald trump and his men hen henchmen, right? the democrats have been really good with the messaging on this following the facts. nancy pelosi has done an incredible job but i think there's something to what you said. they are also trying to put it

to the republicans, as well. here it goes abuse of power. this was an article of impeachment for clinton and for nixon. right? so what are they going to do? and also, moving kind of the country along with them, which is really key here. and i think that's what -- that's what they're trying to do. i think it's both. the public and republicans calling them out. >> heidi pryzbella, thank you for your reporting. as well as, doj signaling publicly that they regret rolling out the red carpet for rudy giuliani. met with that department's head of the criminal division while rudy giuliani himself was under investigation. that stunning story next. elf wa investigation. that stunning story next

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there's no excuse for waiting. get screened. ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers. the justice department appearing to try to distance itself from rudy giuliani. in a highly-irregular statement, a doj official tells "the new york times" this weekend that department officials would never have met with rudy giuliani, the president's besty, several weeks ago about a foreign bribery case of all things if they had any idea that he was under federal criminal investigation by prosecutors in new york. everyone's back. my. my. my. strange times. >> sure are. >> rudy. who's rudy in all this? >> it's just extraordinary to consider that rudy giuliani was a legitimate --

>> person. >> -- certified national hero. he was respected by nearly the entirety of the country for dazzling leadership in the days after 9/11. and to watch his fall, his devolution, is just tragic. i mean, you talk about the reality that we live in this era where trust has raecollapsed in public institutions. i mean, here is someone, one of the few people, who was pretty broadly admired in the country and just threw it all away in defense of god knows what. >> well, tele' talk about this i think over and over again but they all are being taken down by the fake news they pedaled. >> yeah. for sure. and look, an abuse of power is exactly right. i mean, nancy pelosi is smart to understand that the trump fog machine, the chaos, the speed of the lying, that she has to slow the game down. has to make it slower.

understandable abuse of power. if you could do that to the bidens, you could do that to anyone in this country and no one wants to live in that country. >> we're glad you're back. we're going to sneak in our last break. we'll be right back. e going to t break. we'll be right back. the deaf, blind, the different. subaru presents the underdogs. these shelter dogs still love unconditionally. they're just hoping to find their human, who does too. to help, subaru is establishing national make a dog's day to ask you to please consider adopting an underdog, or do something extra-special for your dog. till he signed up for unitedhealthcare medicare advantage.

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my thanks to steve schmidt. we're so glad you're back, my friend. phil, glad you're here. matt miller, glad you're here too. but most of all, thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with the fabulous d katy tur in for chuck starts now. if it's monday, a weekend white house is on defense and in retreat with impeachment pressure points on full display. there's new cracks from within the gop with republicans finding it harder and harder to defend the president. and two republican senators now signaling impeachment may