my thanks to steve schmidt. we're so glad you're back, my friend. phil, glad you're here. matt miller, glad you're here too. but most of all, thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with the fabulous d katy tur in for chuck starts now. if it's monday, a weekend white house is on defense and in retreat with impeachment pressure points on full display. there's new cracks from within the gop with republicans finding it harder and harder to defend the president. and two republican senators now signaling impeachment may not be out of the question.

plus, what's the military end game for u.s. troops leaving syria? but not returning home. as the president promised. welcome to monday. it's "meet the press daily" i'm katy tur in for chuck todd and we begin today with a white house forced to retreat both literally and figuratively facing bipartisan criticism on multiple fronts. this president who rarely, if ever, admits to making a wrong move, is in damage control mode. reversing course on his decision to hold next year's g7 summit as his own golf resort in florida. he says u.s. troops are leaving but just not yet. and attempt ting to reverse a public admission by his chief of staff of a quid pro quo with ukraine. this is a president under pressure and it shows. earlier today, cabinet meeting turned into an airing of grievances of sorts. here is just a small sample.

>> we have good relationship with the kurds. but we never agreed to, you know, protect the kurds. well, i think the democrats fight dirty. i think the democrats are lousy politicians with lousy policy. would i give away my presidential salary? they say no other president has done it. i'm surprised to be honest with you. i get more promotion than any other human being that's ever lived. obama made a deal for a book. is that running a business? i'm sure he didn't even discuss it while he was president. i don't think you people with this phony emoluments clause, and by the way, i would say that it's cost me anywhere from 2 to $5 billion to be president. i think they want to impeach me because it's the only way they're going to win. those people might be worse than me. the good news is they're dying off fast. they're on artificial respiration i think. i made a perfect call.

not a good call. perfect call. >> at the root of the president's problems right now is the escalating impeachment inquiry and the escalating criticism from within his party. the president cannot afford skepticism and criticism from the very republicans he may need to keep from being removed from office. and as the white house heads into another week of potentially damaging dech damaging depositions in the impeachment inquiry, acting chief of staff mick mulvaney continued to insist he never said politics were part of the trump administration's decision to hold up aid to ukraine even though he did. take a listen. >> why did you say in that briefing that president trump had ordered a quid pro quo -- quid pro quo -- that investigating the democrats that aid to ukraine depended on investigating the democrats? why'd you say that? >> that's what people said that i said. there is not a quid pro quo. >> you were asked by jonathan carl. you described a quid pro quo and you said that happens all the time. >> again, reporters will use their language all the time.

>> mulvaney's failure to put out the fire he started over the quid pro quo with ukraine brings us back to the point. this white house is increasingly in damage control mode because the reality is some republicans are reaching the point where they can't or won't defend the president. not on doral. not on syria. and potentially, not on ukraine. joining me now is my nbc news colleague hans nickels at the white house. also with us phillip correspondent for the washington post. former campaign advisor to hilary clinton. and john, editor at commentary magazine and also an msnbc contributor. hans, does it feel different at the white house? i mean, this white house has been enveloped in scandal since basically day one. but is it different today than it ever has been? >> no. it doesn't feel different. i mean, the pace of chaotic stories is basically being constant. i mean, remember last week we were supposed to get a new dhs secretary. we didn't get a new dh secretary

last week. we did end up getting an energy secretary. you have the president bring his whole cabinet in and do a big long briefing and conversations with the press. that is pretty standard. you have the president today railing against republicans for not being tough enough. you have the president rail against mitt romney. he's done that in the past. i mean, i think the only thing different from the cabinet meeting today than the previous ones is that the president didn't emasculate any members of his cabinets like he has in the past. so i didn't see anything materially different today. i didn't actually see a lot of news from the president today basically, what he gave us was the video version of his twitter tirade over the weekend where he's clearly upset that he's not been allowed to host the g7 and he's been forced to pull that back from his golf resort down there in florida. >> that is such a great way to describe it. the video version of a twitter tirade. so if the white house doesn't feel different because this president has behaved the same i guess, does it feel different among republicans on capitol hill? >> yeah.

i mean, i think it's important to recognize the massive mistakes that the white house has made that are outside of ukraine. right? i mean, the mistake on syria and the mistake on doral. you know, however you assess what trump's decision in syria actually was, it's clear that what he did is agitate people who he really, really, really needs to stand with him right at this moment in time. same thing with doral. "the washington post" osksbviou reporting part of the reason he decided to retract this idea of having the g7 down there is republicans were sick and tired of defending him on this stuff. where there was a very real impeachment inquiry and very real questions about his actions is magnifying his own problems by making this decision on syria and making this decision on doral. that alone changes the nature of the relationship between the president and capitol hill. >> i wonder what it does to the american public, though, because the president's been working on a i will wear you out strategy to the point where maybe you are confused or you don't care. don't want to talk about it any longer. is that going to continue to work? >> i hope not.

i -- i think that there is one throughline, though. all of these instances have to do with that overall abuse of power. broader inquiry focus that the speaker was talking about today as reported by nbc news. i think all three of these examples going against the established rules and norms and even laws, in some cases, and basically saying i'm going to disregard these things. asking for foreign help. that's against the law. doesn't matter. emoluments? that's in the actual constitution article one. doesn't matter. and also, with syria, there has been established precedent on how to conduct foreign policy using all of the different aspects of our government. it doesn't matter. i'm going to do what i want. so i think there is a through line that the american people can latch on to that show that donald trump abuses his power in all of these different manifestations. >> let's play that moment where he talks about the emoluments clause, which again is in

article one of the constitution. let's play it. >> if you look, other presidents were wealthy. not huge wealth. george washington was actually considered a very, very rich man at the time. but they ran their businesses. george washington they say had two desks. he had a presidential desk and a business desk. i don't think you people with this phony emoluments clause -- and by the way, i would say that it's cost me anywhere from 2 to $5 billion to be president. and that's okay. between what i lose and what i could have made, i would have made a fortune if i just ran my business. i was doing it really well. >> phony emoluments clause. okay. let me just read the emoluments clause so we all know exactly what it says. again, article one of the constitution section nine. no person holding any office or profit or trust under them the united states shall without the consent of congress accept any present emolument, office or title of any kind, whatever, from any king, prince, or

foreign state. i mean, the broader like dismissal of something that is in the constitution. does that wrinkle people? or is it -- is it just cable news? >> i think the constitution has a bit back. in about a month into the -- the transition after the election in 2016 when trump hired this lawyer to help him figure out what he had to do about his businesses and he got this opinion that basically said, you are the president of the united states article two of the constitution says basically that you are sort of above the law. and you remember he gave this press conference which he said they just told me i can do anything. right? except -- >> this was right -- right before he was inaugurated. >> right. that's right. yeah. and so that's article two. but you can't do this. it's right there. any office.

any office means the president of the united states. it is in the constitution that he cannot accept any profit. >> people say don't touch that red button and he's like i'm going to touch that red button. >> well, and that's part of the relationship with the republicans, too. there is this weird, whether it's unconscious, whatever, power move, he is in trouble. so he -- it's almost like he's saying, you know what? love me even more. i'm going to give you more trouble. i'm going to pull out of syria. i'm going to say i'm going to have my event at the doral country club. defend me now. come on. do it now. and this time, with this language that you read, there is no defense. he cannot do it. he cannot make half a penny's profit off the g7 or he will be impeached and removed from office. it is patently in the constitution. >> so chris stewart of utah has said that he supports the impeachment inquiry or thinks it should be looked into.

mitt romney, on the fence. of utah on the fence about the president. are they the first two of many? or are they standing alone on a very lonely island? >> i mean, so far, the island is not well populated. that that's certainly true. you know, look, you see lindsey graham over the weekend and lindsey graham, who has been a staunch defender of trump. probably, his right-hand man in the senate in a lot of ways. when he says to axios as de ohe over the weekend, that's suggestive. when you have mitch mcconnell putting an op-ed in the washington post last friday. >> he said obama four times. >> totally understood. still, the fact that at this moment, the people who trump really, really, really needs to be a solid wall with him, the fact that there's any space. >> let me play mike pompeo from over the weekend because you had mick mulvaney who struggled to defend himself on fox news and mike pompeo was on abc. just watch.

>> i tell you what i saw transpiring and how president trump was working to make the evaluatio evaluation about whether it was appropriate to provide this assistance. >> what i'm asking is would it be appropriate? >> george, i'm not going to get into hypotheticals and secondary things based on what someone else said. i'm not going to do it here today. >> it's not a hypothetical. we saw the chief of staff. >> it is, george. george, you just said if this happened. that is by definition a hypothetical. >> the chief of staff said it did. >> you asked me if this happened. it's a hypothetical. i've told you what i observed, what i saw the process related to this very funding. >> that goes to show you it was such a long pause that the control room came back to me. hans, that didn't go well by most accounts for mike pompeo. mulvaney didn't go well. giuliani's not on tv.

who does the president have to defend him? and does he need it? does he feel like he needs someone out there? >> well, the need question i think is something they're trying to settle. and we -- we have some reporting on that and there's been a lot out there that they're thinkingabilithinking about potential possibilities but we don't have anything really pinned down in the direction they're going. but for weeks now, we've been hearing about maybe bringing in somebody from the outside. maybe having a rapid response team. you know, as to individual performances, what you hear inside the white house is that the president appreciates people that are willing to go out and defend him. there isn't necessarily much of a sanction, much repercussion, if that performance isn't great. so, no, you haven't say rudy giuliani. he hasn't been on tv for five or six days. so there's some speculation if he was benched. if he was asked not to go on. but at the same time, the last time i checked with some of the white house on how they thought giuliani was doing, an official told me last i spoke to the president, he appreciates the effort that giuliani is making. so until people are formally

sort of admonished by the president for what they're doing or they're dismissed via twitter, i think we have to assume they're going to stay there. and that's certainly true for mick mulvaney. pompeo obviously has made it his goal to stay as close to the president as possible. and just to, you know, give you an indication, pompeo flew back. he made it back in time for the meeting with the president there in the cabinet room. but there is very little daylight between him and the president he serves. >> of course because if you're going -- if you're going to bunker and the general says, who is going to run at the guns? who's -- and the one who goes and runs at the guns is like, you're great. you -- you're my guy. thank you so much. right? i mean, pompeo and -- and mulvaney both found themselves in a completely indefensible position sitting incredibly uncomfortably on tv screens. but they ran -- they ran toward the guns. >> but nobody's forcing them to do this, right?

they're getting taxpayer salaries to do these jobs and their problem is the president did it on camera. so they're denying something where there is video that what they're saying is not true. >> i have to give it to secretary pompeo. that was an even more awkward pause than ari melber and i have during the handoff. hans nickels, thank you very much. phillip, serena, john, you're staying with us. what is happening to the u.s. troops now leaving syria? president says they're now coming home but defense secretary says they aren't. key witness to testify on capitol hill and why he could prove damaging to the president. prove damaging to the president. . across cars... trucks... and suvs. four years in a row. since more than 32,000 real people... just like me. and me. and me. took the survey that decided these awards. it was only right that you hear the good news from real people... like us. i'm daniel. i'm casey.

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i got elected on bringing our soldiers back home. >> welcome back. that was president trump today insisting that troops are coming home from syria even though defense secretary mark esper said almost all the troops leaving northern syria would be going to iraq to help combat isis. some of those troops were spotted earlier today driving through iraq, having just crossed out of syria. and president trump also said today, again despite his promise that troops were coming home, that he may leave some u.s. forces in syria. but they're there to protect the oil, not the kurdish people. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel joins us now from northern syria. richard, nbc news has confirmed that some of those troops do seem to be going to iraq. what else can you tell us? >> well, i can tell you there is a lot of confusion. the -- the chain of command seems to be disrupted. there was a mission here that was quite easy to understand. you had a very small number of

elite u.s. special operations forces in syria. they were partnered with with the kurds. now, called the sdf. and they were working for the last five years to fight against isis. it was a clean mission for u.s. troops. it was a very relatively very safe mission. it was mostly the kurds who were doing the -- taking the brunt of the casualties. and now, it is all in disarray. you have american troops moving. it's not even clear where they're going, when they're going, how long they're going to be there, what their mission is. and their ally, the kurds, are themselves under attack and facing betrayal. so you took what had been a very successful mission and you've basically thrown it into the bonfire and people -- including in the military chain of command -- have no idea what is going to emerge from that fire. >> and you spoke to the kurdish military commander over the weekend and he seemed to tell you or he did tell you that he believes the kurds are going to be facing an ethnic cleansing or

already starting to face one, right? >> oh, he thinks they are facing ethnic cleansing and that it is going to get a lot worse and that it's going to get a lot worse in less than 24 hours when this u.s. brokered ceasefire with turkey expires. there are no indications, unless there is some last-minute intervention, some last-minute diplomacy, no indications this ceasefire is going to last because the kurds and the turks don't agree on the terms of the ceasefire. the turks think they're supposed to take control of a very large safe zone here inside syria. and the kurds think that it's much smaller and are not pulling out. i can tell you we've been told by u.s. officials and kurdish officials that kurdish forces have only pulled back from a small part of this so-called safe zone. so it seems highly likely that in less than 24 hours, that turk irk offensive

irkish offensive is going to begin again. >> i don't know if you have a monitor there showing you what we're seeing here but it's individuals in syria holding up signs and they seem to be confronting u.s. troops as they leave. can you tell us about this scene? >> there were two incidents like this. and they were organized. the protestors went out on to the streets. they held up signs. they threw rotten potatoes and tomatoes at the u.s. troops to express their disgust. not with the actual soldiers themselves. they were trying to guilt the soldiers. guilt the united states to show how much the kurds feel that they are being betrayed by president trump. and i can't tell you how often i've been told in the last few days that the kurds still thank the american people. still thank the soldiers themselves. but they feel that they have been absolutely betrayed by president trump and they think what is coming is going to be a greater campaign of ethnic cleansing as u.s. troops are leaving.

>> richard engel in northern syria. richard thank you very much. with me now is admiral james devritas. now, nbc chief international security and diplomacy expert. admiral, it's great to have you. i just want to ask you what's the motivation here? the president pulled troops out of the northern syria border because he said he wants to bring them home. nbc news reporters and producers saw troops crossing over the border into iraq to fight isis there. why move them from northern syria to iraq? it looks like from the outside that this was -- can we say this was donald trump trying to please erdogan and just moving the troops out of the way? or is that not fair? >> no, i think that is part of it. part of it is this now famous phone call between president erdogan and president trump, as i've said before, the good news is they buried the hatchet. the bad news is they buried it in the back of the kurds.

and just to put some numbers on richard's excellent reporting, there are 300,000 kurds, probably up70,000 of them children, who are literally walking into the desert. newsflash. winter is coming. this is going to get much worse before it is salvageable. i think there's also a component here of domestic politics. the president seems seized with this idea of bring the troops home. he thinks somehow pulling them out, 2,000 troops, out of syria satisfies a kind of a campaign-like talking pioint. >> but he's not bringing them home. >> he is not. and, b, katy, you know this very well. the mission in afghanistan at peak at 150,000 troops. the mission in iraq, 185,000 troops. we're now down in the entire middle east to under 15-17,000 troops. we've brought home 90, 95% of these troops. and the 2,000 troops or so that

were in syria were the absolute center of gravity of this effort to hold isis down above all. and richard was saying, you know, you see the fires starting here. think of it like a forest fire. we have walked away from the forest fire that we actually put out the fire but the embers are still on the ground and they are going to reflash. so humanitarian crisis, betrayal of ally, isis comes back. who is the winner? turkey somewhat and above all, it's vladimir putin of russia and the iranians. it's a bad set of circumstances. >> can you make sense of that? can you make sense of why the president would want to hand those people a win? >> i cannot make sense of it. and the only explanation is a lot of tactical thinking from the white house. tactical, as in, hey i'm in a phone call with president erdogan. let me acquiesce in his demands. hey, i can pull those troops

out. he's been trying to do this for a year. this is why mattis resigned as you know. but i think trump, this is part of what he perceives as fulfilling a campaign promise. >> but again, he is not bringing them home. >> he's not bringing them home and he is missing a crucial point which is something he ought to understand as a businessman. this is a small investment that creates real leverage. and so to pull these troops out now and then put them right next door in iraq reduces their military efficiency in combatting isis. that's what i'm really concerned about as a military officer. >> let me ask you this. the president says he's also going to send troops to saudi arabia because they're going to pay for it 100%. are american troops paid missionaries in that scenario? >> of course not. and the thing we ought to also worry about -- >> mercenaries, not missionaries. i'm sorry. >> i got you. the knock on strategic effect here of withdrawing and leaving

the kurds in the lurch is going to be that if i'm an estonian and i'm worried about russians or i'm a south korean and i'm worried about the north koreans or i'm an afghani and i'm worried about a sudden pullout from afghanistan, we have devalued the currency of our word by what we've done. our troops are not mercenaries. they are there for american security first and foremost. and we have reduced american security with the policies we've seen over the last several days. >> admiral james, admiral, thank you very much. >> thanks, katy. >> and coming up, house democrats gearing up for a key witness in the impeachment inquiry tomorrow. plus, a big change in the leader board in iowa. the top tier is coming into focus. 2020 vision, next. o focus. 2020 vision, next. with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice,

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with 9. this is a big difference from back in june, which was the last time usa today polled in iowa. back then, biden led warren by double digits. kama kamala harris was in the second place spot. and buttigieg was at 6%. the boost for buttigieg comes after an aggressive debate performance last week in which he went after frontrunner warren for her lack of specificity on how she will pay for her medicare for all plan. buttigieg has continued that attack line including with chuck on "meet the press" yesterday. >> governing is easier said than done. but we have a responsibility to make sure that dollars that have gone to line the pockets of people who didn't even need it are instead going to make sure that the american people can get healthcare. the bigger point here is my plan is paid for. and we have an opportunity to get everybody healthcare without kicking people off their private plans and without the multi-trillion dollar hold that

appears to be there unexplained in senator warren's plan. >> after pressure from buttigieg and other 2020 rivals, warren said yesterday that she'll be announcing her plan to pay for her healthcare in the coming weeks. her healthcare plan, that is. coming up tomorrow is shaping up to be a blockbuster day in the impeachment inquiry. we'll talk to a democrat who is going to be in the room when a top diplomat at the center of the ukraine controversy testifies. that's next. y testifies. that's next. i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

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they're interviewing ambassadors who i'd never heard of. i don't know who these people are. i never heard of them. and i have great respect for some of them. >> welcome back. ambassadors i've never even heard of. that's how president trump characterized the witnesses appearing before the house's impeachment inquiry. those witnesses delivered damaging depositions last week and more are expected this week. beginning with acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor tomorrow. he is a key witness for

democrats in the investigation into president trump's dealings with ukraine. it was taylor who texted eu ambassador gordon sondland quote as i said on the phone, i think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. joining me now is california democratic congressman. he is member of the house oversight and arm services committees and has been in some of the close door depositions that have been moving this impeachment inquiry forward. congressman, thanks very much for being here. what are you hoping to get from bill taylor or learn from him? >> we need to know more information about who all was involved in rudy giuliani conducting foreign policy with ukraine. who told the president that this was wrong? and why was the president outsourcing american foreign policy to his personal lawyer? >> why does the president need to be told it's wrong? >> well, he doesn't. i mean, he's abused his office. frankly, the president's phone call and transcript with

president zelensky is enough to understand that he abused his office. but the question is to what extent was the corruption? it doesn't seem like it was just a phone call. it seems like there was a systematic attempt that went over months where the president tried to pressure ukraine to investigate biden. many people were involved. many people tried to push back. and those facts need to come out so that the american people understand the extent of it. this was not just the president misspeaking in one phone call. this was a deliberate strategy to investigate a political rival. >> and during that text exchange, bill taylor tells ambassador gordon sondland as i said on the phone, i think it's crazy. are you going to be getting to the bottom of what he said on the phone and who he was talking to and whether or not gordon sondland's testimony lines up with his from last week? >> i do. i think those are all questions that chairman schiff and our council will ask and the republicans of course will have the chance to ask as well.

but my hope is that he will just shed light on the facts. and explain why it is that he felt pressure, where the pressure was coming from. whether he thought there was a quid pro quo or not. >> earlier today, brad smith one of your colleagues was on cnn talking about impeachment and here's what he said. >> i have enough information. i will sit in on the meetings because it's historic. but the public testimony is everything you need. you have the transcript. you have the chief of staff statements. it's obvious that-l the preside of the united states was trying to force the ukraine to help his political campaign. >> brad sherman. so brad sherman says he has enough. do you have enough? >> i do and i agree with everything brad said. but it's still important that we do the investigation and we build a case so that we can

convince the senate and maybe some republican colleagues. we've seen now a break. i mean, francis rooney who has announced his retirement said he's open to impeachment. you even had lindsey graham saying that if there was further evidence of a crime, he's not ruling it out. we've heard informally testimony or actually conversation that republicans aren't as strong as they once were. so the more we can build a case, the more we may be able to convince some of the republicans to do the right thing. >> let me ask you more about that. why don't you think they're as strongly behind the president as they once were? are you personally having conversations? >> well, one, there's a large disappointment with the president's decision in syria. many republicans feel that that was dishonorable for the united states to abandon our kurdish allies who fought shoulder in shoulder against isis. it's the most critical i've heard some of my colleagues be about the president. there were many republicans who were scratching their head with the president's decision to have the g7 summit at one of his

resorts. so what i've seen, candidly, katy, is that republicans are more willing to speak out against this president than any time that i've been in congress over the last three years. but they aren't yet willing to say let's have an impeachment inquiry. but just the change that they're willing to criticize the president privately and publicly is very different than things were even six months ago. >> well, let me ask you about how the democrats are going about this. i know the reasoning i've been told the reasoning behind why these depositions are being taken behind closed doors, sort of like a grand jury, is the way that i've been told to think about it. but are you -- are you sure that the american public is going to get everything it needs in order to make an educated decision? is it a good way to get the public information through these -- the -- the leaks, the bits and pieces we're getting out of -- getting from reporters after you guys hear the testimony from various witnesses? >> well, chairman schiff has made it very clear to all of us who have ever been in that room not to have any leaks. >> well, there are leaks so

someone's saying something to someone. >> i agree. i regret there are those leaks but i think what should happen is these witnesses should come, they should share their testimony. they shouldn't have leaks about that. and then there's going to be a formal proceeding in the judiciary committee where it will be public, where it will be debated, where all of the testimony will be out there for people to evaluate. and the central evidence is already out there. you have the president actually bragging about asking ukraine to -- to investigate joe biden and his son. so i don't think the facts are really at dispute here. it's more a question of values. >> would you call back some of those witnesses? do you need them to speak publicly themselves instead of just reading it in a transcript? >> if there was a need. i mean, if there was a real sense that the case required that. my sense is a lot of the evidence, as brad sherman said, is already there. and there may not be a need. but if there is a need or if republicans believe they want to call one or two of those witnesses back, that's fine and

appropriate at the time of the judiciary hearing, which will be the public hearings. but it's certainly not appropriate right now where we're building the evidence. and remember in watergate or even in the case of bill clinton, you had special prosecutors who did this investigation behind closed doors so people felt comfortable sharing the truth. here, you don't have a special prosecutor when it comes to ukraine. you had bob mueller. he's no longer doing the job. so we have to have that investigation and i think it's better that you don't have the democrats trying to politicize it or get a sensational headline. >> congressman, thank you very much. >> thank you, katy. >> and coming up, one of the president's staunchest allies is not ruling out impeaching the president. stay with us. impeaching the president. stay with us -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour?

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child care options run out. lifetime retirement income from tiaa doesn't. guaranteed monthly income for life. going on tv and saying china, will you investigate my political opponent is wrong. it's a mistake. it was shocking, in my opinion, for the president to do so and a mistake for him to do so. i can't imagine coming to a different point of view. we certainly can't have presidents asking foreign countries to provide something of political value. that is, after all, against the law. >> that comments like that on axios on hbo last night may be expected from mitt romney, republican senator who's been critical of president trump. but what may be alarming to the president is remarks lindsey graham made. one of his most reliable supporters in the senate. here's what he said.

>> are you open-minded if more comes out that you could support impeachment? >> sure. i mean -- i mean, show me something that -- that -- that is a crime. if you could show me that, you know, trump actually was engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing. >> zerlena, phil, and john are back. so graham talked to axios two days before mulvaney said, yeah, there was three conditions for them to get the aid and one of them was, yes, investigating the 2016 server and don't worry about it, folks, we do it all the time. so he did establish a quid pro quo. is that going to change lindsey graham's mind? >> probably not. lindsey graham is very good at moving goal posts. a trade he has really picked up since january 20, 2017. lindsey graham doesn't want to be critical of donald trump. that's clear. and it really is the case that there is this massive mountain that democrats would need to get over if they actually remove donald trump from office.

you need 67 votes, which means you need 20 republicans. we're all familiar with the math. but it's important to remind people that there really aren't 20 swing republicans who are going to say i may took a look at this trump thing unless something really dramatic happens. >> how much more dramatic does it have to get? >> i think we sit here every day and we're like if they find more evidence. i'm like the president confessed on television. confessed to two different things that are crimes. he asked china to do it and he also doubled down on the ukraine call context, which we all had from before because he released his own evidence. so i think that we -- we should stop acting like we're not sure whether or not there was wrongdoing. i don't like when republicans -- >> that's not what i said. >> no, i'm not saying you personally. i'm just saying collectively. we -- we -- we can work under established facts. the president confessed on television. that is against the law. now, congress is working through the different processes of investigating it to hold him to

account. republicans, you know, i don't care that they don't want to -- they -- they don't want to defend the president. but i think that's different than being critical of behavior that is unlawful. and i think that if a democrat would be -- would be democrat w found in the same -- doing the same behaviors, then they would be, you know, they would fall over themselves to be critical of that democrat. so i just think, yes, the hypocrisy is an argument we use all the time and we roll our eyes like it doesn't matter, but it does. that is something the american people do care about. and that's why the poll numbers around impeachment have been moving steadily towards supporting it. >> what do you think, john? >> so there is information in "the new york times" today in their latest poll that the public supports an impeachment inquiry by 6 points and opposes removal by 10. so i think what you have there is an interesting dynamic. that is people accept the argument that it would be a genuinely wildly extraordinary act, one that has never happened

before in american history for the senate to remove the president, and that better be something that is commensurate with the extraordinary nature of the act of removal, but should look into it, because maybe it will be bad enough if you look into it, not just what's already happened which may be a crime you can accept. i hate to put it that way. >> sure. >> but the constitution says impeachment for high crimes and misdemeanors. it doesn't say what kind. it doesn't say how many. it doesn't say how bad they have to be. it could be a parking ticket or it could be murder. you know, depending on what the circumstances are. and right now i think that the public looking at everything that we've seen is not yet ready to say what we know from the confession that zerlina mentions is commensurate with removing the president from office. >> just, i'm sorry, two quick points on that. the first is "the times" poll was not national poll. >> battleground states. >> that's right. we had a national poll coming

out that the majority do support removal. one month ago, we didn't know anything about this ukraine stuff. when i say there still may be stuff throughout that can actually convince a lindsey graham, who knows. >> absolutely. the president's committing crimes on television that we don't expect to be happening, right? we didn't expect him to double down on ukraine and add to it by him asking china to interfere. one of the things that's been bothering me this entire month is the standards through which we deem conduct unacceptable matters depending upon who the person is. if this was a president who was not donald trump, this would not be okay. this administration is caging brown people on the premise that they are violating the law, which they are not, because asylum seekers as we know are not violating any laws. they're coming here lawfully. we're caging those people because this administration says they're law breakers while they're standing on television breaking the law, and that is something that i think americans that are not white, we see that double standard, and that is very upsetting, and that is why

i think you see some of the numbers moving. many people of color standing behind this impeachment inquiry. >> what is the more powerful message to send what is acceptable and not acceptable? is it voting in 2020 and removing him from office in a landslide? people who didn't vote in 2016 coming out in droves and saying this is not okay, people turning over, maybe, or it is impeaching him and removing him from office on a party line vote. and maybe not a party line vote because you can't do that eby removal. >> i think that the trap is that he is impacting the election in realtime. so that's why i think that pelosi decided now -- this is where we now need to move, because if he's trying to impact the outcome of the upcoming election, we would need a landslide in order to overcome the weight that he is putting on the scales by asking for this foreign help. so i think that we can't put our faith in the fact that this

election will be fair. >> zerlina maxwell, thank you very much. phil and john, guys, thank you as well. and ahead, a case of mitt-taken identity. >> pierre delecteau. i need to ask him in the senate why he chose delecteau. i will. i will. will i will trucks... and suvs. four years in a row. since more than 32,000 real people... just like me. and me. and me. took the survey that decided these awards. it was only right that you hear the good news from real people... like us. i'm daniel. i'm casey. i'm julio. only chevy has earned j.d. power dependability awards across cars, trucks and suvs. four years in a row.

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in case you missed it, the internet can be a dark and shadowy place full of secrets, and who do we have to thank for reminding us of that? utah senator mitt romney. the former presidential candidate's overt twitter account has just been found after romney revealed to the atlantic that he has a secret twitter account, a slate reporter promptly found it and made it a secret no more. since 2011, romney has been tweeting with a pseudonym pierre delecto. so we know romney is pierre delecto, but what we don't know is why romney is pierre delecto. what does it possibly mean? is it a clever reference? a harry potter spell of some sort? then it hit us. what if we rearranged the letters? maybe it's the secret message. so we pulled out the state-of-the-art an gram machine we keep in the basement here at 30 rock, and it spit out some

surprising data. if you rearrange the letters in pierre delecto, it spells ripe electrode. i don't know what that means, but i'm pretty sure that's not it. it also spells politer decree. sounds like a phish song. mitt romney is a polite guy. look how he blows out his birthday candles. so sanitary. it also spells out loitered crepe. he did spend a lot of time in diners while running for office, and pierre is a french name. but i think the smart money is on this one. pierre delecto an grams to reelect period. and there we have it. a secret subversive message to keep him in office. the case of pierre delecto has been cracked. willard romney, we figured you out. you can always count on an grams to expose the truth, even if they sometimes called you normally weird. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more

"mtp daily." "the beat with ari melber" starts now with ayman mohyeldin in for ari. can i do my best impression? >> please do. is there going to be a long awkward silence? you nailed it. well done. >> you nailed it. you knew what i was going to do. >> all right. thank you very much, katy. i'm ayman mohyeldin in for ari melber. we have a lot of ground to cover this hour. tonight exclusive new details on how democrats plan to impeach donald trump. also, new revelations about rudy giuliani's indicted associates and trump's legal team. trump attacks the u.s. constitution after giving up plans for a world summit at his golf course. we're going get to all of it. but we want to begin with donald trump conceding that his impeachment looks increasingly likely. >> do you believe it's a forgone