time. my thanks to eli, john, and most of all thanks to you for watching. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. welcome to wednesday. "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm chuck todd. in washington, the theatrics from house republicans today. the silence from senate republicans. the president's latest rants. crumbling denials. it all suggests there is a real fear on the right that testimony may have been a tipping point in the house's impeachment inquiry because in the wake of that testimony yesterday, house republicans literally stormed the impeachment hearing room today almost blocking testimony from a top pentagon official while complaining about the process. not talking about facts. the president signalled his alarm too this afternoon

tweeting republicans who oppose him are quote human scum. the president of the united states used that phrase. as the addage goes, if you can't pound the facts, pound the table. and here we are just one month into a formal impeachment inquiry and the facts are overwhelming and apparently pretty damning. -l u.s.'s top diplomat testified yesterday there was quid pro quo. and he testified tdhat to ukrai by one of the president's point men. that pointman, eu ambassador gordon sondland. he testified that he was all but ordered by the president to take his cues from rudy giuliani. giuliani has publicly admitted numerous times. the president himself has admitted he wanted ukraine to target his rivals, his acting chief of staff admitted to quid pro quo before trying to walk it back. numerous diplomats have testified about how alarmed they were at what was going on and the notes from the president's phone call with ukraine only

corroborated it all. folks, the impeachment conversation now no longer seems to revolve around whether democrats have the evidence to make their case because it's clear they have the evidence to make their case. instead, it's question of how are they going to lay it out publicly? potentially open to impeaching the president. my guess is he wants to know how is this process going to work? let's start with the latest from our nbc correspondent. jeff bennett is in capitol hill. hallie jackson is at the white house. jeff, let me start with you in today's bizarre standoff. it was clearly a planned stunt. the timing of it and all of that. where do things stand right now? and when are we going to hear -- when are they going to resume their ability to hear testimony? >> you know what, chuck, i have to credit dan balls i think for perfectly distilling the current moment. he says it's no longer a question of whether or not president trump withheld this ukrainian military aid to compel

ukraine's leaders to investigate trump's political rivals. all of the evidence points to yes. even the evidence that the white house put out points to yes. he says the question now is how does president trump explain it? and how do republicans respond to it? well, we've seen how republicans have responded to it. they have been making this process argument for days, if not weeks. complaining that because this fact-finding mission that democrats are embarking on, because that is not happening in the light of day, it is somehow not on the up and up. and so that culminated today with matt gates, the florida republican, a group ofn the respective committees doing this deposition work. barged into the secureo use a phrase from one of the democrats. some of them in the process taking their personal devices, electronic devices into the scif. which is the kind of violation that anybody with security clearance, any regular person with a security clearance could lose that clearance over. now, they say they were trying to -- >> they targeted this hearing for a reason, though, because

they thought they could get around that, right, jeff? >> right. they did. and they say they were trying to bring transparency to the process. what they were really trying to do was shut the process down and for at least five hours, they were successful. the view from democrats was this was intentionally timed to take attention away from that sweeping and devastating testimony that you mentioned that house investigators heard from ambassador bill taylor yesterday. there's been some reporting that that -- that gates, what he did was done in concert with president trump directly. we have not confirmed that. gates for his part says that's not the case. but what we know is that president trump likes people who defend him the way he wants to be defended. and in that group were all people who are either elected to congress off the back of donald trump or they have furnished their reputation by tying themselves closely to president trump. >> jeff bennett on the hill. hallie jackson at the white house. hallie, do you get a sense that the white house was following today's theatrics? >> yes, i do.

and i think that part of that is because the president has wanted his republican allies over on capitol hill to get tougher. he could not have been more clear about that early in the week and i don't think that is any coincidence that today you are seeing this unfold and you are seeing some of the president's allies literally yelling into microphones to defend the president today. this is what the president wanted to see. he wanted to see his people, if you will, his conservatives, surrounding him and fighting for him. this is something that the president has been wanting for a while now. he's starting to get it. it's a question of how effective it's going to be, of course. but i have to tell you when i have conversations with my sources that i've had today, over the last 24 hours or so, it's not just about impeachment strategy. you have a west wing here that seems rather leaderless at the moment. the guessing game at least from the folks that i talk to is who is going to end up being the next chief of staff if mick mulvaney doesn't, right? on top of everything else going on. i think it's notable today senator lindsey graham, again

the president's very good friend, on this matter if not other matters of foreign policy was asked specifically should the white house have a better impeachment strategy? senator graham just said yes and walk a walked away. they want the white house to have more of a strategy here. i have been told for weeks now by my sources here that they don't want to set up a war room because that makes it look like they're under siege. well, you have battle lines that are drawn, chuck. so you either sort of get in the battle or you don't. >> let me pause you there because let me put up the statement stephanie grisham put out last night on bill taylor because what was amazing about it is how it didn't deny a single part of the actual testimony. it felt like it might've been written by her boss. president trump has done nothing wrong. this is a coordinated smear campaign from far left lawmakers and radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the constitution. there was no quid pro quo. today was just more triple hearsay. selective leads from the democrats politically motivated

closed door secretive hearings. triple hearsay is a new one on me. but i am curious. this statement screams they're panicked about the bill taylor testimony. how concerned are they? >> yeah. yeah. here's what i think that folks would point to in that stephanie grisham statement. it does echo all these talking points. his own cabinet officials have picked up on that this is a smear campaign but it's that line. there was no quid pro quo. that's what you are hearing from the president, from his allies, from top republicans on capitol hill. but here's the thing. the -- the counter argument to that is, if i hand you a piece of meat between two slices of bread and tell you it's not a sandwich, what is it actually? right? and i think that the democrats are kind of saying, listen, if in fact based on all of these documents, all this evidence we have, the transcript -- rough transcript of this call that you released. you are trying to trade military aid for political help in a

campaign. doesn't matter what you call it whether it's quid pro quo or not. the facts are what they are. and i think that is what the white house is struggling to respond on here. >> jeff bennett and hallie jackson starting us off. thank you both. joining me now is member of the house of foreign affairs committee. he was present at bill taylor's testimony yesterday. thanks for coming on. >> thanks for having me on. >> let me start with first taylor's testimony. it -- i have to tell you it was striking today to read a lot of my colleagues' reporting on it because it felt more definitive than ever before. as if this feels that taylor is connecting all the dots. you were in the room. you have more than the opening statement that the rest of us have gone by. is that how you saw it? >> well, first i'd like to say that all of our professional diplomats i think have acquitted themselves very well in the hearings i've been in.

and ambassador taylor was extremely clear, extremely chronological and detail-oriented. and i think he filled in a lot of meat around some of the comments that the chief of staff had said or that ambassador sondland had said previously. it was -- it was powerful. >> you found him to be very credible? >> oh, sure. yeah. as was dr. hill and george kent. these are just professional diplomats. they don't -- i don't know that they have agendas. they have -- their agenda is to pursue american foreign policy as dictated by the state department. >> 30 of your republican colleagues sort of stormed the hearing room today. claiming that this process hasn't been fair. what would you say to them if you could? if they asked you how's the process been? you're in the room, you know how the process works. >> part of why i'm probably not really cut out for this line of work is i'm not real theatrical. you know? i just want to get the facts and make a good decision. especially, something as important as this. it's really important to get all

the facts. get opinions of different people and understand the magnitude of what's going on around here. >> is closed door better at first before you go public? i mean, this seems to be what the democrats are arguing. it's what republicans previously during the benghazi committee argued as well. do you find that it is a better process if you don't have the cameras in the room at first? >> well, they'll probably get more information transferred. what the democrats said in the -- chairman schiff said -- was the reason for this process is they don't have a special prosecutor and they can't get a grand jury. so they are kind of trying to replicate a private hearing like a grand jury would do. but that at some point, they are going to have public hearings. i think it's critical that they bring the public into this discussion. and that the administration have the opportunity to question the witnesses at some point. >> i was just going to say, look, you've been -- you went public with your concerns. and that comes with political peril these days.

i'm sure you're well aware of that. but give democrats some advice here. what would you tell them? you've got your case. clearly, how they lay out their case is going to matter. not just the facts that they have. the facts are one thing. but you can have all the facts on your side and still screw up your prosecution. what would you -- >> you can because -- >> yeah. you could overreach. all sorts of things. what would be your advice to the democrats? >> they've got to lay it out in a way that the body, the american people, as well as legislators realize the -- a level of gravity that would rise to the level of impeachment. i mean, you know, that -- that's how -- that's their challenge and i think the sooner they go public and have more of a spirited public debate about this would be probably in their interest. >> i want to make -- i'm -- i'm going to make an observation. if you don't want to respond to it, that's fine. you seem to have hit your breaking point. is that fair to say? that's what it looks like from

the outside. you know, you just sort of said, you know what? enough. whether it was a decision not to run again. you seem to be very frustrated by washington. >> well, as a businessman, washington's going to clearly frustrate most anybody. but the reason i said i wasn't going to run again is i said from day one, three terms maximum. i'm 66 years old. i'm not going for a new career. but i ammed want to run to get money and we've accomplished those in two terms instead of three. so i think it's time to move on and i started thinking about it the very day we passed the offshore moratorium bill. but as far as this situation here now, i just can't take an ideological position without facts. i've got to know the facts and i'm going to pursue that in all fronts before i have to get to the point perhaps of making a very critical decision that affects our country and our institutions. >> it's interesting. you called it -- you have to look at it instead of making an ideological decision. how many of your colleagues do you feel like are looking at

this through an ideological prism? >> well, i don't know. i would like to see more people focus on the facts. and i've heard a few more people talk about that. but it's not really serving the president well not to get the facts out there and let the facts stand. >> jonah goldberg who was with national review, he wrote, you know, he looked at the pressure that you guys successfully put on the president on the doral decision. and he basically wondered what if more republicans had stood up to the president in the first year? would everybody be in a better place? the party and the president? what would you say? >> well, i don't know. there weren't that many things in the first year that i think i disagreed with him on. i mean, basically, we were consumed by trying to replace the aca with better insurance. it took the whole year to -- to come up to the point of failure unfortunately. >> uh-huh. but you don't feel as if there was missed opportunities in the

past. i mean, obviously pressure can work with the president if you apply it. >> yeah, i don't know. he's pretty strong guy. he's done a lot of things in his life. but i would say this. i would say we've had this rash of problems lately. the doral decision was probably made in haste and not appropriate. the syria move, i'm much against. i think we've made a huge tactical error there to the benefit of russia and unfortunately iran as well. >> can i ask you do you lump ukraine and syria together since their foreign policy priorities of russia and does it at all strike you as odd that these are the two biggest problems it seems your wing of the republican party has with this president? >> well, no. i think they're totally different situations. i mean, the problem with the ukraine is that by some, i think, weak foreign policy during the obama administration, russia just came in there and had their way. i'm not sure that would have happened under ronald reagan or

even maybe george bush. but it's there now. so we've got to do what we can do to root out the corruption and get that country on a straight and narrow path to oppose the russians. the syria quagmire has been -- you know, goes back to when we invaded iraq. you've got all these different factions in there. a lot of the sunni syrians, you don't know whether they're isis or not. i feel the kurds have been valuable allies. i've even written an op-ed that we should recognize iraqi kurdistan as an independent country. >> congressman francis rooney. republican from florida. retiring now. thanks for coming on, sir. much appreciate it. >> thank you very much. >> you got it. over on the senate side of capitol hill today, no answer was a popular answer for republicans when they were asked about ambassador bill taylor's testimony. take a listen. >> any reaction to bill taylor's testimony yesterday? >> i probably wouldn't be able to talk about it.

i want to look at it and hear the facts from the intel committee. >> well, i am almost late for my own hearing. >> i'm sorry. i haven't gotten -- yet. >> any reaction to bill taylor's testimony yesterday? >> i don't. >> i feel like a barber there. like getting a good look at the back of a lot of the hair lines to see how well they trimmed it there. joining me now, heidi przybyla. also, an msnbc contributor. michael steele, it was interesting. francis rooney just sort of -- you can tell he's not running for re-election. okay? i'm sorry. not going to say it but, you know, that's the -- he's not running for re-election. corey gardener. that guy who was late. roger. looking at his watch. i hope he was actually wearing one. it's more embarrassing. look at that. about half past that birth mark there.

boy, can you tell the difference between somebody not running and somebody running. >> you can tell the difference and you can -- listening to that interview, you could almost sense that, okay, moment with him. and, you know, there's some things he still didn't want to get into as to characterizing the thinking and some of the behavior of his colleagues. he doesn't want to dance on that. that's fine. but even still, for a lot of folks like myself, we need better profiles in courage. the walk by looking i got to go, you know, the madhatter kind of routine by the members you just showed, that's a profile. but certainly not encouraged. and you have a lot of folks who are stepping out now going, well, let me tell you what i think. well, okay, that's nice but you're not risking anything. and the country right now i think needs, from the republican side of the aisle, someone to stand up and risk something. to stand up to the president. not just a matter of saying, you know, this is what i believe and the president's wrong about this or right about this. it's a matter of saying i'm willing to sacrifice my seat, my

re-election, my position. >> look, in fairness to him, i don't think he knew how to -- i think he might've done it differently had he known how quickly it was going to weaken him. we don't know. >> and look. for all that we heard from congressman rooney, there are a lot of his colleagues in the house and some republican colleagues in the senate who are not running for re-election. i don't see them out there saying, you know, i'm thinking seriously about impeachment or i'm very troubled here. they are thinking about it but they are not saying it. >> you know, i met with one this week on background and i have to say they are, too, also following these orders of just focusing on the process and not necessarily, you know, saying that the facts are bad at this point. and this is someone who is familiar with what's being said inside those hearing rooms. >> the facts are bad. >> but let's -- >> to your point, even right now even though they've heard some of these things, even some of

the moderate republicans even now are still holding back on saying that this is bad and that they believe that this is something that is impeachable. so to the congressman's point and to your point, chuck, it's going to be really important how it is laid out. and that is why the democrats are doing this different than they did the mueller debacle, which is to have these closed-door hearings to gather all of the evidence because they are constitutionally charged with bringing the charges forward. and then present it in open hearings. and then that is the time that we, the media, do our job and we check back in with those handful i'd say of republicans who may be open to listening to these facts. >> can i say one quick thing about process arguments? process arguments are not generally winning arguments even when there is a point to them. and even when they're correct. think about the argument about documents during the cavanaugh hearings. didn't get a lot of traction. this is a process argument that as far as i'm concerned has no basis to it. it is completely natural to be

doing hearings behind closed doors. >> no. no. no. right. >> at this point. >> what i wanted to move the conversation, what does this process need to look like next? okay? what does this look like next? they've done the behind the scenes gathering, which is a very -- you've taken your depositions. you know what they're going to say. so now, you -- now, you decide what order the witnesses go public. >> imagine the testimony from fiona hill. imagine the testimony from bill taylor. crisp, serious, not radical unelected of the most offensive phrases recently. put it up there with scum. imagine that laid out in a very orderly and compelling way. that's where they go next. >> that is what they wanted to do, again, with the mueller testimony so it does not

deinvolve in >> to heidi's point, it is going to be so important in the next round. >> isn't the whole strategy by jordan and meadows, in some ways is to make it a circus? >> that's it. because you know what happens when they are successful at that? we saw it with mueller. the public checks out. and what are you seeing right now is the numbers are moving against the president. >> they need a distraction to make it look like it's more the washington mess. >> can i just point out that no less than four or five years ago, it was trey gaudi who had the benghazi investigation who said over and over again it is so crucial that we be able to hold the first phase of this behind closed doors so that we can drill down on witnesses. so that witnesses aren't coordinating their testimony. and so that we don't have the showboating of members on either side who want to just parene for the cameras. >> well, i was just going to say we like to show receipts. i got a full screen.

it's page 360 and 404 of the house benghazi report and let's read it. i'll read it aloud. the committee's preference for private interviews over public hearings has been questioned. interviews are more efficient and effective means of discovery. interviews allow witnesses to be questioned in depth by a highly prepared member or staff person. the ability to interview witnesses in private allows committees to gather information confidentially and in more depth than is possible under the five--minute rule governing committee hearing. >> has there been anybody asked about their own benghazi report? any of the republicans who stormed the scif today. been shown this report that says do you agree with this then? or do you disagree with it now? >> well, they should be asked. i can say i tweeted that and got about 2,000 retweets. so that's a good showing. >> but let's -- when we're starting to count here, there are about 30 of them that stormed. and it was -- i saw the line. king was one of them. >> steve scalis.

>> that was a mild surprise on that one. and then there was the -- is it 23 that refused to censure adam schiff? >> right. >> the point is, you're starting to see it's not like a wave of numbers. but i feel like every week, there's another couple. >> another couple towards what? >> towards not -- not willing to at least knee-jerk defend everything. i mean, i think we've moved from that to that. >> yeah. i think that's fair to say that i think a lot of people, to your point, are kind of holding back a little bit and sort of assessing and reassessing. but it's still going to take some one or two or three who are going to have to break this stranglehold that trump has. >> who is the barry goldwater type? who is that? is that mitch? >> a lot of people think it should be mitch. but does mitch see himself in that role? >> we know there are a handful of constitutionalists if that's what you want to call them who voted against the president's emergency order at the border,

for instance. they showed that they were willing to buck him on that. it's a question of are they willing to go that far on something of -- what's such grave consequences. >> richard burr. >> that's an interesting one. he's also -- if i'm not mistaken, he is a self-term limiter. i think he has hit his own max on that one. heidi, michael, ruth, stick around. president trump says his syria decision was a great success. but for whom? we're going to live to syria next. r whom we'rgoe ing to live to syria next th diabetes, why fingerstick when you can scan? with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestylelibre.us

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today's announcement validates our course of action with turkey. that only a couple of weeks ago was scorned and now people are saying, wow, what a great outcome. congratulations. >> welcome back. president trump essentially congratulating himself for ending a conflict he started himself or at least seemed to green light saying that turkey

has agreed to make the ceasefire in northern syria quote permanent. president also announced he was lifting all sanctions on turkey giving president erdogan yet another victory and downplaying concerns that u.s. withdrawal from the region was leading to isis fighters escaping. even though minutes earlier, jim jeffrey told congress that this issue of detainee -- isis detainees escaping was a serious issue. >> general mazloum has assured me that isis is under very, very strict lock and key. and the detention facilities are being strongly maintained. there were a few that got out. a small number. relatively speaking. and they've been largely recaptured. >> how many isis detainees have escaped? does the u.s. have an idea where these individuals are? and is the u.s. able to monitor or effectively operate against isis given the withdrawal of u.s. forces?

>> again, as secretary esper said, we would say that the number is now over 100. we do not know where they are. >> so there you have it. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in northern syria. richard, you and i spoke quite a bit today after the president's remarks. and frankly, you put it in as stark of terms as anybody did and he congratulated himself for ending a war he started. >> he says that everybody says wow. he's getting lots of calls from people saying what a great outcome. the outcome is not great at all if you live here in northern syria. this was a peaceful enclave. he describes it like it was blood in the sand. this was one of the safest places in the middle east. one of the most pro-american pockets in the entire middle east. the kurds were running the place. american troops were able to walk around among the kurds without flack jackets, without danger. they had no issue. foreign reporters were able to

come in here, do our business. we were not harassed at all. it was an island that was safe in the middle east. then president trump allowed the turks to invade and now it is being carved up between russia and the syrian regime, which has committed atrocities and used chemical weapons against its own people. how is that possibly a good outcome? and the people who live here are running away from their lives because they -- they fear the syrian regime. the same regime that committed atrocities. they fear the turks. they fear the russians. how is that a good outcome? in what world is that a good outcome? >> yeah. you had alerted us to this fact that general mazloum, who had -- who the president had said, you know, was very thankful to the united states. did -- that was the president quoting the general. the general did another -- went another step further with the president's counterpart in russia. what did you learn?

>> so during our last conversation, last time we spoke i guess you could say, you were a little bit surprised. you said oh that's strange. why would general mazloum, the people, the commander here go out of his way to thank president trump when everyone in -- in -- in this region is saying that president trump betrayed the kurdish people? why would the general go and say thank you, trump, for stopping this turkish invasion? the turkish invasion everyone here believes would not have happened had president trump not -- not given it the green light. and the reason is he has no cards to play. he is thanking everyone he possibly can. so he did thank president trump. they did have a phone call and then just the last couple hours, russian television shows the same general mazloum thanking vladimir putin. he could be calling you next to thank you. they have no cards left to play. they need friends. they're getting squashed. they're getting divided up and they are trying to just survive the night so that they might have some sort of future.

>> this supposed permanent ceasefire. what evidence do you see and -- and who's in charge of -- of making sure it's kept? is this on turkey and russia? is that essentially what the president said today? that, you know, look, as long as they abide by the ceasefire. if not, maybe i'll do some sanctions. do you have a better understanding of that? what does it look like there? >> there are two ceasefires. so there is the russian playbook and that's what general mazloum was saying, okay, we'll play a little bit by the russian playbook even though they don't like that. the russian playbook says that the turks take half of the kurdish land. the syrian regime takes half the kurdish land. the american playbook is that there will be a safe zone and the turks will take pretty much all of it. and that's it. so the -- the -- there are these two competing ceasefires and the kurds here, the kurdish leadership, general mazloum, is trying to play one side off the other. trying to survive. trying to keep some troops here

who he's been working with. has a great relationship with. and frankly, nobody knows exactly what the terms of the ceasefire is, where it is because you're talking about different maps, different countries, different visions of this -- of this place. different carve-up plans for the -- the -- the kurdish enclave. but both plans end up in the same place. both plans end up with the destruction of the -- what had happen a very peaceful kurdish-run enclave here in northern syria. >> richard engel in northern syria for us. richard, thank you very much. up next, is the president's self-described diplomatic victory a political defeat? we'll be right back. victory a political defeat we'll be right back. tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

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russia, or turkey to protect the united states against isis. >> it would be unthinkable to me to think turkey would not suffer consequence for malevolent behavior. >> i don't think we can sit here and say erdogan is our friend because he's sure not acting like our friend right now. >> welcome back. as we showed earlier, senate republicans were ducking microphones when it came to responding to bill taylor's testimony. heidi przybyla, michael steele, ruth are back. so, ruth, first of all, lindsey graham, you could see who knows what he's thinking as far as long-term. but the whole point of him trying to get close to the president was to try to stop him from doing things like this. >> he told us. he told us he wants to be close to the president because he wanted to be relevant. well, what's the point of being relevant when your president is

doing things like this without consulting you, without consulting anyone, and then declaring it a great success? >> yeah. it's at the point of being relevant to irrelevancy. >> but in fairness, what did we do to turkey? because i've went through this conversation, had a long conversation with somebody earlier today. and said, okay, yeah. they probably -- if they weren't in nato, we wouldn't be inviting them and now it's awkward. but without turkey, you know, how do we deal with the rest of eastern europe? you know, it isn't as easy as just cutting them off. >> it's not that easy. but i spoke last week, chuck, with senator -- former senator bob corker, who was the head of the senate foreign relations committee and he said to me and he said it very slow and very deliberate. he said, heidi -- >> no, he said heidi. >> thank you. correction. he knew. trump knew for a long time how concerned we were about turkey and this is not an isolated

incident here. if you look at turkey and this president, there is a broader aperture here. there is turkey purchasing the russian missile system, which should have automatically triggered sanctions. then the president calls gop senators to the oval office and says, give me flexibility. those sanctions were never implemented. okay. there's -- >> by the way, the -- the sanctions that he announced today that he pulled back. >> now, he's pulling them back. >> they were implemented for six days. >> right. right. >> see how effective he is? >> this goes back to the lindsey graham conundrum. as he sits there and tries to, you know, figure out what to do with this. this ship has sailed. this decision has been made. there's -- how do you now as putin and erdogan are carving up syria, the united states thinks it's going to walk into that conversation and change the nature of it. i just -- >> and that's what i asked corker. i said how do you undo this? and he said i'll tell you the truth, you don't. everything that you see happening in congress right now

and he said i'm sorry to say this to my former colleagues but is to make themselves feel better. because what happens is, even if we try to reverse the policy, the president will veto it. it would get sent back. if they can pass it by veto, majority, whatever it is, by that time, the damage is done. arguably, the damage is already done right now as russia is assuming our military bases. >> look. erdogan felt like he had to go to moscow, ruth. maybe feels like he's got to have a relationship with putin now. the saudis. you know, we know that we're not crazy about some of the people we've got to get into bed with sometimes in the middle east. but us walking away, russia's filled every single vacuum in all of our uncomfortable allies, right, if you want to call turkey and saudi arabia uncomfortable allies. they're basically like hedge fund managers. they're going, well, i got to hedge my bet. america? i'm going to hedge my bet. >> well, that's why richard engel was quoting the general in the same way.

and i think that is a piece of why the reaction from republicans to what -- what president -- president's conversation with turkey and president's actions with regard to turkey and the kurds was so strong. because all of the -- many of the other things that the president has done are -- look bad, feel bad, are upsetting. this one has real consequences. real consequences, exactly, that can't be undone in a very easy way. can't be overturned by a court or stopped by a court. it's a tragedy and they know it. >> michael steele, this is the opposite of the definition of american exceptionalism. i remember when that phrase used to matter to a lot of people in this town. that is, to me, what's striking. there is a lot of republicans in this town, that phrase means something. and it meant something like, no, we're better than this. no. we do have a better idea of how to keep the middle east safe. you know, we do. that's part of our exceptionalism. >> it's not -- it's not a brow

beating or me, me, me. it's about how we work with allies and partners around the globe to secure the peace. and when we step away from that with our tail between our legs, this is what it looks like. >> another story today that i would have made a huge deal out of if it wasn't for, oh, everything else we're dealing with right now was mark zuckerberg going in front of the house financial services committee trying to make a case for cryptocurrency. let me give you a quick montage of zuckerberg struggling a bipartisan beat down. >> in your history, why should congress and regulators and the public trust you to create what amounts to the world's largest bank, what really amounts to shadowed sovereign government? why would we want you to do that? >> these accounts peddle horrific illegal content that exploits women and children. what are you doing, mr. zuckerberg, to shut this down? >> will you commit to

withdrawing this argument and this pleading and never again plead that there is no liability on facebook when data breaches occur? i think your pleading is inconsistent with your privacy principles and i think american people are tired of this hypocrisy. >> he didn't get much of a chance to defend himself today. but i would argue that i don't know if he earned the right to because he has been the -- the -- the comments he's made about political ads has really set off lawmakers left and right. >> and, my gosh. it's not just political ads. what the russians did in terms of cloaking themselves and purchasing ads on facebook is just the beginning of it. when you heard the congresswoman there talk about child trafficking and all of the other horrible things that could happen under a system like that where the founder himself sayinsays he's not going to police the content. it was just the past couple weeks that there were ads from a trump super-pac putting out demonstrably false information about the bidens.

and they refused. even though they were flagged and requested several times to have it taken down, they refused to do it. i think ultimately they did but they're telling us we are not going to police this. but let us go ahead and create this mega bank. >> i think michelle sandberg and mark zuckerberg have supposedly been on this tour to try to rebuild trust. whether it's with the press or lawmakers. i think it's been a disaster. i don't think it's gone well. >> i think that's very perceptive of you. unusually perceptive. >> they think it's gone well. well, i don't think they do now. >> i don't know that they think that. and, look, we were talking about this earlier. marc zukckerberg created an app that was intended for one purpose. to get some dates. and it mushroomed into something that connected the world and then it got out of control. got out of control. >> he washes his hands of it. >> yes. he washes his hands of it and moves on to another thing that we don't know how it could be controlled.

the currency. so -- >> it's huberous. i'll give him that. >> it's stable genius at work i guess. you know, the form of it. but the part of that -- >> different. >> it's different. but here's the deal. it's being blind to what everyone is saying is happening. it's being blind to what actually is being done in your name by other institutions. and that's the part -- >> my concern is that they think we don't matter. we're saying it and all they do is say, oh, look. more user growth. more user growth. more user growth. and they don't -- i think they think they can just bull rush this entire process. we'll see if congress has more than rhetoric on their side. heidi, michael, and ruth thank you very much. up ahead, been a rocky ride. bidens back on top for now. one of biden's presidential candidates joins me here in studio what it means for the rest of the democratic field. t e rest of the democratic field if you have moderate to severe psoriasis,

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welcome back tonight in 2020 vision, it looks like joe binden is back on top of the democratic primary. at least for today at least in one poll. shows the former vice president leading the field. it's actually biden's best showing ever in the cnn poll. he's up ten points from september. he's leading elizabeth warren in this survey by double digits. again, all national. it's certainly good news for team biden, who has at times in recent weeks looked like his

frontrunner status could be in trouble. especially, after his campaign reported just $9 million in cash on hand. less than any of the other top contenders. coming up, i'll be talking to one of biden's 2020 rivals, colorado senator michael bennet 2020 rivals, colorado senator michael bennet. rivals, colorad michael bennet hmm. exactly. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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- when you're volunteering, "it's not my job."r that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. >> welcome back, joining me now, colorado senator and presidential hopeful michael bennet. i hate asking other candidates about poll numbers. however, your candidacy does

seem tied to joe biden's. do you feel it? you defend -- you have similar medicare for all ideas. >> right. >> meaning you have medicare x. it's similar. in some ways i would argue you defended his proposal better than he did a couple of debates ago. >> i would say it's my proposal, although i'm happy to have him join me. >> fair enough. what do you make of his resiliency? >> i think people -- the number one issue for democratic voters is finding somebody who can beat donald trump. and as long as joe biden has the well-earned name identification that he has, it's going to be hard to dislodge people unless something changes in the race. >> does it make it harder for you to break through? you're not on the far left lane over here. >> no. >> you're trying to sort of straddle the sort of pragmatic center. i don't know what you call it. i'll let you describe it. everyone has a drch name for it. it seems biden is casti sh

shadow over that effort. >> i think that's fair to say he's casting a shadow over that effort. i don't think it's fair to say we're the same person. we have different points of view. he said if we just get rid of trump we'll go back to working together in a bipartisan way. nobody wants to work in a bipartisan way more than i do, but we've had gerrymandering to the rise of freedom caucus that's made washington broken. it's broke in washington. we have to fix that. i think by building a constituency outside of washington, that's a different point of view and different vantage point. >> i'm curious, have you seen a difference between what iowans say to you and what your coloradon constituents say to you? >> no, actually. i think iowa and colorado, we're one state apart from each other. what i see is incredible consistency. they want to beat donald trump. they want us to figure out how to cover everybody with health care.

if i had to summarize iowa and colorado, people would say michael we're working hard but we can't afford a middle class life. that's what they're saying. >> by the way, it is the common issue in every state in america. everybody has the same issue. i would throw transportation in there as well. all wrapped up in same issue. >> people that aren't coming to living in poverty, who are the families i used to work for when i was superintendent of denver public schools, they would say we're killing ourselves, no whart we do, we can't get our kids out of poverty. >> when i'm not here in washington, i realize how odd it looks at times that washington is obsessed, consumed by impeachment. and i think rightfully so. it's a very serious investigation that's happening but i am mindful that the rest of the country is watching it in a fish bowl. they're not as consumed by it. how has this impacted your

campaign? not just yours. >> we'll have to figure out how to walk and chew gum at the same time. it's not going to be easy to do. those of us who are in the senate have a responsibility to make sure we carry it out well. chuck, your point on theing abo day today. it's how people in iowa view washington, how people in colorado view washington. on a day like today, what's the rest of the world thinking about washington? when you have a bunch of elected officials storm into a secure room, what does it -- >> jimmy kimmel when they would make fun of other parliaments. look at them. they can't run their democracy. >> exactly. >> now we're the -- >> or trump caves to erdogan in the middle of syria. >> how many of people you talk to in iowa want out of these wars? there's something that i think

is an odd disconnect. one hand, everybody is rightfully concern about how this is done but he's on to something, bigger picture. >> this is a very important point. somebody lean ed over to me in our caucus lunch and said nobody cares what happens in nor northern syria. >> it's shameful that that's true. >> and they said that's why we need a better class of elected leaders in washington, in the white house and in the senate because it matters to national security interests of the united states what happens here. and the metapoint that he has, which is we shouldn't have made so many mistakes in the middle east, that happens to be true. this case is the case where over the course of five years, we put isis back in a box. we lost six guys and the kurds lost 10,000, and you're going to pick that as the one thing you walk away from if you're president, with all the collateral damage? >> let me talk about you're a

student of history. alexander hamilton comes back alive today and sees our situation. impeachment because of how he's conducting himself in office 11 months from an election. knowing now what our system does, what do you think -- what do you think they would advise? >> i think they would say that the system -- these guys were students of history as well, a very particular kind of history, roman history. and they set up this whole enterprise for fear of a guy like donald trump, you know, who is a tyrant. that's what they were scared of. >> you think they would say you better proceed through the process? >> i think that's what they would say. >> even if there's an election? >> i think that's what they would say. >> january, do you think you would be sitting in a trial in washington rather than in iowa? >> we live in interesting times. >> we do. be safe on the trail. >> thank you. nbc announced the moderators for the upcoming november 20th debate, rachel maddow, andrea

mitchell, all-female panel. if it's wednesday there's a new chuck todd cast ready to download. get it wherever you get your podcast. that's all we've got tonight. it's ari melber time and "the beat." hello, ari. >> hello. thank you very much. after a day of major clashes in this impeachment probe on capitol hill, tensions rising after what could only be described as a blockbuster testimony from a diplomat detailing the situation. bill taylor served presidents in both appears and drew a direct line between trump and the scheme to deny military aid to ukraine in exchange for a probe of donald trump's rivals. mounting evidence teeing up,