my thanks to juanita toliver, michael singleton and also to our friend, who else was here? chris lou was here. "meet the press daily" with chuck todd starts right now. welcome to thursday. it's "meet the press daily" and good evening i'm chuck todd here in washington. where the nats are up 2-0 and where this impeachment quiinqui is going to have to go public. the democrats would like to wrap all this up before the iowa caucuses or else it will wreak havoc on their presidential primaries. so after bill taylor's bomb shell testimony this week, both sides are on the clock.

democrats are going to have to decide when to stop gathering evidence and then scramble to lay out that evidence and republicans already are scrambling to combat it. "the washington post" reports democrats are looking at holding public hearings as early as mid-november, which would derail the current republican complaints and stunts that the president praised today which argue that the current closed-door proceedings are unfair. even though republicans used this same playbook and praised it during the benghazi hearings. lindsey graham this afternoon announced a senate resolution condemning the house's quote closed door impeachment inquiry. the president's allies are not pounding the facts. they're pounding the table and the process but ultimately it's the democrats who have to figure out how to lay out this case. and they have to figure that out quickly because the mounting evidence against the president is the fact if the democrats want this done before the iowa caucus, they have just weeks to do this. they have weeks to finish depositions, hold public hearings, lay out a case, write, debate, and vote on articles of impeachment. then we have to hold an entire

senate trial, which took five weeks last time it happened. all before the iowa caucuses in february. that is just 14 weeks away. oh, and during that time, they also have to navigate a possible government shutdown, which could turn into a fight over funding impeachment. holiday recesses, at least three presidential debates, a whole mess of wild card issues, to who knows what else. like i said, the clock is ticking. and if the lastindication, we a a ride. i don't think people have grasped how crazy the next 14 weeks are going to get. let's go to capitol hill. jeff bennett is covering all the developments there. mr. bennett, today's a quiter day. obviously, it has been a day to remember elijah cummings. >> right. >> behind the scenes, whether it's funding the government, passing some of these appropriations bills, including the one that usually everybody does support, defense

authorization, a trade deal, figuring out when the hearings are going to be, who's got the calendar planner out right now these days? >> well, the house intel committee still has the planner out and so does house speaker nancy pelosi. and i'll give you a sense of the public message and then what's happening privately. publicly, house speaker nancy pelosi has said there will be no outside arbiter of this inquiry. it won't be because of the calendar and won't be because of outside influences. political pressure from republicans. privately, though, democrats have made the case that they would like to wrap this entire thing up before the 2020 elections -- or before the year 2020 rather. not just because of the messaging confusion that would result from having democrats in iowa and new hampshire trying to remove president trump via the ballot box while you have democrats back here trying to remove him via impeachment. but the thinking is it would give republicans an opening. they'd be able to say, if this thing moves into 2020, that this is really about the election and not about the constitution.

but throwing sand into the gears of this process is that i'm told a number of witnesses have given house investigators a range of new leads. not just about other people to talk to but other documents to request. there has been a delay in the impeachment inquiry out of respect for lelijah cummings fo the memorial services honoring him today and tomorrow. there had been delays before that because some of the witnesses they wanted to talk to didn't have lawyers. i mean, it's careerttorneys on r because they think there might be an impeachment process that might happen. so all of that has taken time. and by the way, they haven't seen brought in the big guns. so if they want to bring in john bolton to depose him, that takes time. that said, though, i have talked to democrats on the respective committees who say that they do believe that public hearings will start very soon. they hope to get this thing wrapped up by mid-november. around thanksgiving, which would then have the senate trial happening sometime in december. >> very quickly before i turn to

the panel, what's going to -- is anybody talking about funding the government? this idea of a shutdown and perhaps the white house using government funding in the impeachment certainly seems like a threat that somebody may use. >> yeah. those talks are ongoing. the house speaker says she is working behind the scenes on that issue. on passing usmca, nafta 2.0. there is this overall thought, though, that if president trump wanted to, he could force what would be a, what, fourth government shutdown on his watch to prove a political point. and to basically, you know, wind down the gears of government, chuck. >> and he may look at it and say he never paid a price for any of the other government shutdowns personally and if that's it. it's going to be a fascinating couple weeks. jeff bennett, thank you. joining me at the table, bloom berg national political reporter, msnbc contributor. and the senior vice president of

foreign and defense policy studies at the american enterprise institute. yes, and also an msnbc contributor. that's a lot of title we just threw out. >> i know. >> we got to get you some more title. leanne and saheel, i want to get at how are we going to get you all this done? >> it's an insurmountable task. we only have a few weeks to fund the government. this is happening with this impeachment inquiry and as jeff mentioned, the president has an incentive for the government shutdown. he can change the -- the -- the topic of the conversation to his pet issues, which are the wall, immigration. distract away from impeachment. then again, there is usmca. there is one thought about that nafta 2.0 that perhaps nancy pelosi has more of an incentive to get it passed because she can show -- then show -- that she can walk and chew gum at the same time. >> and that's the thing she would choose to use as that proof. >> because a lot of her members want that to pass as well.

so that could be a good win for them while they're impeaching the president. >> and the democrats i'm talking to say they feel pretty good about the evidence they have. they thought the bill taylor testimony kind of put a pin in a lot of this. but the two entities they still want to talk to are omb, the white house budget office, and the pentagon because those are the two entities that would have had a direct hand in any withholding of aid. and after that, they move to public. now, pelosi's getting a lot of pressure from some house democrats. >> i guess -- all right. look at it from a political perspective, adrian. there is a new washington post story out that just sort of shows you the dilemma democrats might have. here's the headline. trade decision also a signal that u.s. suspension of cooperation extended beyond security funds. the white house's trade rep in late august withdrew a recommendation to -- after john bolton national security advisor warned him that president trump probably would impose any action. according to people briefed on the matter.

the point is this, they keep finding new evidence. that slows down the process. >> right. >> and when do they start the hearings? >> it's like this neverending circle of process here. i mean, look i think looking at the bigger picture, it's going to be very difficult to get this done by thanksgiving. it almost makes me laugh to even think that's something people are looking to do. irdo think it's a real possibility we can get this done before the iowa caucuses but i al also don't think it's dooms day scenario. >> so here we are in the month of february. the big sprint of the big four states and we know how it consumes us. >> it does consume us. >> and impeachment trial in february where elizabeth warren has to sit there in the united states senate. bernie sanders. they're sitting senators. >> yeah. look. they're sitting senators but i'm not sure they have to be there 24/7. >> i think you do. >> if the trial's going on, yes, absolutely. if the trial's going on, yes, let's establish that. but i don't think that this is going to completely upend the democratic primary process like

there are some people who think that there is. besides the fact that it would take some senators out of the mix in terms of being on campaign trail who have a responsibility of being there for the impeachment proceedings, i genuinely don't think this is going to be something that's going to completely overtake the process. >> how could democrats do this in a way that doesn't spook some republicans who are concerned but are worried that the politics is going to make them uncomfortable having to support an investigation? >> well, i think that the legitimacy claims are the big ones right now. i mean, and i think that's an easily correctible mistake. i can't quite understand why they've doubled down on it. set aside the stunts and ordering pizza in the scif and stuff like that. >> hold the vote. they go on the record, too. >> i think that -- i think that, you know, donald trump's claims that this is not a legitimate process and his allies' claims that this is not a legitimate process are actually sticking a little bit. and that the democrats would do well to stop leaking, which is really a mistake. and just to open this up so that people can make judgments.

you know, they have been telling the white house again and again, hey, you guys, this isn't classified. this stuff that you're trying not to give us, that's not classified. but then they take it and they want to hang on to it in a scif. it's a tough argument for them and i think that the legitimacy of the process is important. >> can i just weigh in really quickly? i think it's important to keep in mind that the majority of the republican leadership has access to these depositions. >> it's the public i'm talking about. >> and the democrats have made it clear that they will be opening these hearings very soon. >> again, very soon is not a legitimate process. they ought to move forward and i think, look, again there's lots of arguments to have about this. but at the end of the day, what we want is something that the public really feels has a lot of integrity because you want everyone on board. >> and, leanne, this does seem to be the -- you have to -- you have to put it out there long enough for -- i assume if you really believe he's done this, you want to persuade. well, it takes time. >> yeah. >> you rush it and then, you know, look. look at the senate resolution that lindsey graham put out. on one hand, there's 44

co-sponsors. there's nine that didn't sign on. to the life, i don't understand. this was the fear why a bunch of senate republicans didn't want -- put up the nine. lamar alexander. susan collins. corey gardener. johnny isaacson. mitt romney. dan sullivan. alexander retiring. collins, tough re-election. gardener, tough re-election. isaacson, retiring. murkowsky, independent. mitt romney are sort of mitt portman and rob romney, right? dan sullivan i think is more in line. john mccain is his mentor. this has created a divide in the gop. >> yeah, it absolutely has and republicans say they're going to stand with the president. republicans who are currently standing with the president, i should say, say they're going to stand with the president until the base falls out from under him. so they are watching those polls extremely closely. they are listening to their constituents who are still with the president. and it's a much different

situation in the house, of course, than it is in the senate. the house they have very compact districts. as we all know, the senate you have full states. so i think we could see a very different scenario in the senate. but those names you mentioned, it's extremely telling. yeah. i could have guessed them without even ever seeing them. >> yeah. >> it may be a who's who guide as to who is potentially the most likely to be persuadable on the republican side. but keep in mind, they need 20. >> i do think -- and sahil, it is interesting that mitch mcconnell, lindsey graham, they worded this carefully enough to try to get as many as they could. they got 'em to basically say trash the process as it stands right now. which is an interesting tactic. >> and neither one of them won primaries in their 2020 election. >> the very notable think is they're not defending president trump on the substance. they are going after the process. they are uncomfortable with a lot of this. lindsey graham gave a press conference less than two hours ago where he told a room full of reporters i'm not here to say president trump has done nothing

wrong. he said his criticism is about the house democrats. >> just bringing it back to what we were talking about at the outset, if the president decide to distract everybody, he needs an adversarial process and a government shutdown, that's going to put the senate in a difficult position, right? >> i hate to say this. isn't this a most likely outcome? i hate to say it. >> it's certainly been his playbook before. but i mean, if you're the senate, what signal does that send to the american public? vote for democratic house and a democratic senate because then you're going to get everything through. >> wow. you think that's the nightmare. >> i think it's very risky. >> interesting. i was just going to say i think the politics of government shutdowns are -- are -- they're just peculiar. >> it's all messaging. it really completely comes down to messaging. but i don't see how we get out of this without a shutdown to the point we've all been discussing. i think president trump wants a shutdown. it distracts from impeachment. it distracts from the process. and by the way, the only thing the republicans have going for them right now is to criticize the process because these guys

have tough races. a lot of them were up this cycle. tom tillis, for example. and if they are criticizing the substance, this could come back to haunt the re-election -- >> i go back to the senate trial itself. i think this is a nightmare for elizabeth warren. this idea she can just -- susan collins had a great line because she was one of the people she's been there. she goes it's real work. you got to sit there six days a week. this throws a real wrench into iowa. >> it will take her off the campaign trail. it will take bernie sanders, kamala harris, all these senators off the campaign trail kind of at a critical moment. iowa voters want to see you there. new hampshire voters want to see you there. >> i think it depends when the actual trial is taking place. certainly, to clarify what i said earlier, if the trial is taking place during iowa caucuses, that is not an ideal situation. >> it will likely be january. assuming the house gets it done between thanksgiving and christmas, it's going to have to be january. >> maybe they'll skip the

recess. >> i think from a messaging component, impeachment running into 2020 is not a problem for democrats, especially if they're having problems with getting behind one candidate. but the logistics of it i think getting back to that having to be in the senate every single day is going to be a huge problem for these front-running candidates. >> at that point, you say i want the american people to decide. >> that's where -- >> 2020 -- i was just going to say. i think calendar year number is an important number in people's heads and that is the public will go, oh, it's 2020. it's an election yearment we . l we all know it. it's an even numbered year. it's one of those years. >> that's why you have to get at least impeachment done this calendar year. >> good luck with the government shutdown. stick around. up ahead, he's the trump appointee who might just be the democrats' star witness in an eventual public impeachment inquiry. we'll talk to someone who knows bill taylor. how lawmakers from both sides are remembering

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i think ambassador taylor has done a very good job of dotting the i's and crossing the t's. his testimony was so compelling. >> ambassador bill taylor testified and gave the most sweeping and devastating testimony about president trump's efforts to shake down the ukrainian government. >> he was a highly credible witness who provided a detailed account of what he saw in his service in ukraine as it related to this shakedown scheme. >> welcome back. as we said, democrats are going to have to start making their impeachment case public soon and when they do, their star witness

will likely be technically a trump appointee. bill taylor, the acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine has reportedly given the most damning testimony yet to impeachment investigators. certainly, his opening statement we've all seen was pretty damning. some democrats have even called his detailed account of a potential quid pro quo a game changer. it may not just be what he said that makes him so valuable to democrats but who he is. west point grad. highly decorated vietnam war veteran. a seasoned diplomat who has served every president since reagan. with me now is ambassador dennis ross who's known -- who -- who is certainly known bill taylor for more than 25 years. also, an expert in both the middle east and russia. served administrations going back to two bushes, clinton, obama. been around the block with quite a few administrations. and he's the co-author of the new book "be strong and of good coura courage." dennis ross, thanks for coming on. >> sure. >> bill taylor.

it was interesting when i was reading his résume, i'm like i've read a similar résume. it was robert mueller. and by the time this thing was through, robert mueller became a partisan figure in the eyes of some people on the right. is bill taylor going to be somebody that the president and his allies are going to be able to -- to create a -- a -- a political boogieman out of? >> you know, he's not responsible for an investigation. he's simply reporting what happened. so i think it's going to be pretty difficult to somehow try to portray him as playing a political game. this is a guy, by the way, that i first met when he was working on the transitions in eastern europe. when we were working very heavily after the collapse of the soviet union and the soviet block on trying to ensure that these new european states, these ones that had emerged from the soviet block, would be democratic, would be ruled by law, would be characterized by free market economies where there wouldn't be corruption. so he's been working on these kinds of issues for a long time and he obviously has a vantage

point from what he was asked to do and what he was doing in ukraine to offer perspective on what was happening. but putting it into a context of, you know, the last 10 to 20, 30 years where we were trying to help these countries move in a certain direction, especially a democratic one. >> you know, the white house yesterday put out a statement after bill taylor's testimony. simply said president trump has done nothing wrong. this is a coordinated smear campaign from far left lawmakers and radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the constitution. there was no quid pro quo. a radical unelected bureaucrat. look, i know the attacks on the state department are going to continue to increase. how does that go over? >> well, for people who dedicated their lives and actually put their lieves on th line, i think there is a fundamental sense they know who is threatening the wellbeing of the country and the constitution. you know, they, too, have sworn to protect it. and defend it. and someone like bill taylor

actually did that not only in the military where he did it quite literally. but also, he did it in every one of the posts he had throughout his career. and again, it's interesting that he was appointed by this administration to take this job in no small part precisely because who he is and the professionalism that he's conducted himself with throughout his career. >> do you feel as if mike pompeo, the secretary of state, has done enough to defend diplomats in the state department? do you think he's getting a bad rep publicly? he's doing more privately, just not doing enough publicly? or is this a problem both publicly and privately? >> to be fair, i think he did a lot after secretary tillerson was no longer the secretary. i think he did a lot to improve the morale within the state department. i know from many of the people that i used to serve with that he did a lot to improve the morale. there's no question. he began to listen to people in a way they didn't feel listened to before. he included them in a way they

hadn't been included. so there was no question there was a sense that things had changed and the state department was more relevant and the secretary was paying attention as they put it to the building. i do think now there's a -- there's a concern about whether or not, in fact, they are being supported. and, you know, i think it's up to him obviously to continue to engage with the people who are working for him in a way that he gives them a level of confidence that from his standpoint, he understands that his strength as a secretary also depends on the kind of work they do for him. >> i want to turn a little bit and tap into your expertise on syria. in fact, it has to do with the secretary of state. he did interview today with the wichita eagle. let me put up a quote from it. "the wichita eagle" asked what good is the word of the u.s.? has that undercut u.s. credibility? secretary pompeo responds the whole predicate of your question is insane. the word of the united states -- i'll give you a good example -- the word of the united states is much more respected today than

it was just two and a half years ago. now, he didn't address the direct issue of the kurds. but do you believe that's an insane question to ask? >> i'll give you a quote of a friend of mine who says there's -- everyone he talks to now and there's a saying going around the middle east, at least in arab countries, that when the u.s. says it has you covered, you're actually naked. so when this is what's being said in the region, it seems to me that that question is a pretty legitimate question to pose. our credibility right now is being doubted. you know, the whole idea that if the u.s. in fact commits to you, you can count on them. if you're the kurds, you know, the kurds agreed with us to remove most of their hardened defense positions along the border because this was supposed to reduce the concerns the turks had. this would create less of a potential provocation to the turks -- to turkey. and so the kurds in the course of doing this made themselves more vulnerable to exactly what

happened. so i would say right now the perception of putting yourself on a limb for the united states is one that most will decide they shouldn't do. >> erdogan. what do you do about him? and it does seem as if -- and i've asked this of a few experts like yourself -- it does seem as if obama couldn't -- mismanaged the relationship and that trump's mismanaging the relationship. i -- i -- you know, the motives may be different for the mismanagement but it's being mismanaged. >> look, erdogan is going to create a problem for anybody who's trying to deal with him. one thing i think we have to keep in mind is even though he is basically now put all the tools of power at his command, all the institutions at his command within turkey. the reality is he lost the vote in instan bull. y and, in fact, the vote the second time was a dramatic vote in which it was clear he was rejected. we shouldn't confuse erdogan with being turkey forever.

i think our approach has to be one in which on the one hand, we try to manage and work with him where we can and where we have disagreements and where he crosses a line on things. we impose a price as necessary. when he buys the s 400, the sbons the response in terms of not providing the f-35 after all is the right move to make. where in fact there are possibilities where he can contribute to stability in a region that is going to become more characterized by instability, in no small part best work with him. just done, >> so what you're saying is you can't give up on turkey even if you want to give up on erdogan. >> absolutely. we should not. look, this is a member of nato not by accident. this is a very large and significant country that has l relevance both for europe and the middle east. it will be important because of its geostrategic positioning. but we also have to send a message. certain behaviors are wrong. you pay a price when you engage in them. >> ambassador dennis ross. coming on to talk about ambassador bill taylor as well as syria. thanks for coming on. good to see you.

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that's my last name. in the nfl. of millions of americans during the recession. so, my wife kat and i took action. we started a non-profit community bank with a simple theory - give people a fair deal and real economic power. invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. the difference between words and actions matters. that's a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. welcome back. tonight in 2020 vision, we got a new national poll of democratic primary voters. it's a race that shows a different forecast for joe biden than what we saw just yesterday. >> i didn't enter this race based on polling data. i didn't enter this race based

on what my percentages were. i knew this race knowing exactly what i wanted to do and, that was, i wasn't joking to restore the soul and decency of this country. and to rebuild the middle class. and it's up to the voters to decide whether i'm the person to do that. >> looking at the polls, it's clear there are a lot of democrats who think biden is the person to do that. but the question of just how durable biden's front-runner status? well, that's gotten a little cloudier today. a sunny day of polling rolled in for biden yesterday. he's 15 points ahead of his closest rival elizabeth warren in a national cnn poll. and a poll showed his south carolina firewall holding. a 17-point lead in the state. but today's national poll showed a darker forecast for biden. in that one, he's trailing warren by seven points. that's her biggest lead in any national poll. >> it could change tomorrow. so, you know, i -- i'm not a prognosticator. i'm not being critical.

that's your job to prognosticate. all i know is i'm going to go out and make the best case i can. >> i have a feeling this is about the poll-sters more than about the candidates. by the way, breaking this afternoon, the biden campaign appears to be giving the green light to independent fundraising efforts to help prop up their candidate. campaign softening its position on accepting -- they are not openly endorsing them. but they will not stop them either. coming up, we'll dig deeper into the 2020 field, which got a little smaller today as some democrats are wondering if someone who isn't running should be. g if someone who isn't running should be rand... to earn j.d. power dependability awards... across cars... trucks... and suvs. four years in a row. since more than 32,000 real people... just like me. and me. and me. took the survey that decided these awards. it was only right that you hear the good news from real people... like us. i'm daniel. i'm casey.

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presidential campaign and will focus on re-election in the house. still with us, leanne, sahil, adrian, and danielle. adrian, since you worked for clinton, i need to ask you the bizarre phillip tucker thing. i'm not going to play the clip. but is this real? is this a troll balloon or a -- is this trolling fox viewers? >> yeah, i'm not going to speak on behalf of my friend phillip. i'm not a spokesperson. but i think we're at the stage of the campaign where a lot of donors are not exactly thrilled with the field of candidates. i think we've got some really strong candidates running and people are saying is there anybody else out there? i think a lot of people are concerned about joe biden's fundraising. i think people are just in that kind of panicked stage right now. so they are looking to hilary clinton. they're looking to mike bloomberg. but i think at the end of the day, we are with the field of candidates who we're going to be with for the duration of this cycle. >> tim cane on the show, couple

days ago, i asked him if the nominee was running. i was surprised at his answer. take a listen. >> is the democratic nominee in the race? >> i believe so. but, you know, again, i think there is a lot of unpredictable right now. but i do believe the democratic nominee is in the race. >> that was not a -- that was not emphatic. put it that way. >> i get it. >> being diplomatic. >> democrats have an amazing tendency to panic about this stuff. back in 2016, people were begging joe biden to come to the rescue. >> don't forget wes clarke actually jumped in based on this in '04. >> there were some democrats in 2012 who said obama couldn't possibly win re-election. everyone looks at this in a vacuum. >> hilary clinton was the savior in 04 that never came about. i mean, we're sitting here dancing around. this is about donors that you just brought up. whatever you want to call them. the just win at any cost

democrats going is elizabeth warren going to mess this up? >> i think the fear among democrats is that there's all this chaos happening in the country right now. elizabeth warren is promising a complete wholesale change of the system that we live in. is that -- that might be really good for the democratic base right now. but are voters, independent voters, centrist voters, going to be okay with that when what they might want is just a return to normal? and elizabeth warren is not a return to normal. >> disruption for disruption. look, that is her thesis of why democrats lost in 2016. hey, he was running on disruption. not the one i want but he's not wrong. the system is broken and we have to fix it. >> he wasn't trying to upend democratic capitalism and return us to the 1930s. >> well, returning us to the 1930s on certain policy. >> you're right. i got to say just as a conservative, i can't call myself a republican these days. but as a conservative, the only

thing that could get me close to voting for donald trump is elizabeth warren. >> and that's -- you're not alone. >> i've heard that from others, too. >> right. that seems to be the concern of these donors. >> yeah. i think that's a concern of the donors. but i don't think donors are necessarily concerned because of her policies. i think the donors are more concerned about whether or not she is electable against trump. that is where the concern is. so this notion, and we've seen this in plenty of early state polling and battleground state polling. elizabeth warren can beat donald trump in a lot of these battleground states. we've seen this at least from the polling at this point. we got to keep in mind she has such a base that is so excited about her. enthusiasm is so critically important as we all know in an election cycle. but you got to keep that in mind. there are people very excited about her. and the notion that she cannot beat donald trump is ludicrous. >> sahil, there's -- we pointed this out the other day. it is interesting that currently now the top four, if you look at

this, there's four now. if you put pete buttigieg up with sanders, warren, and biden. the demographics suddenly of the top tier is not what the democrats expected to be. three are 70 or older. one is 37. one is gay. only one come from outside the east coast. all three are white. you know, it was -- when we had this field, i think a lot of people thought the top four wasn't going to look like this at this point in time. and that might be adding to this hammering. >> well, this is why i think the early states are crucial for joe biden and an important way. he's positioned to do very well in south carolina, which is the fourth primary and super tuesday after that. but if he fails to win iowa, which he's not doing particularly well there if he fails to win new hampshire, he's going to struggle. if he fails to win nevada, does that make way for someone like pete buttigieg to kind of sneak through who is going all in on iowa in that sense? one point on elizabeth warren. she's polling about as well as donald trump, as joe biden is now. but there is obviously that concern because she would need to create a whole different kind of electorate. she would need to bring voters

in this process who don't typically vote and that is a concern for democratic donors and establishment figures who don't want to reimagine a new electorate. they want to go with what's safer. >> i think she's doing that by the way. she's bringing a whole new generation of excited young voters who want to be a part of this process. but going back to what you said about joe biden in iowa. i do agree with you that he's got to do somewhat well in the early states. but south carolina is so important for him. he's going to do -- unless something crazy happens, he's going to do very well there. and then you've got super-tuesday. we just can't focus on these early states because there is a way his campaign can message this and i think they're starting to do it now where they're saying we're going to do very well in south carolina and by the way, we are investing very heavily in the ground game. and in the states when it comes to advertising and super tuesday states texas and california right there. so if he does well in the delegate race there, he can be back on top after super tuesday. >> by the way, got to play a little bit of cory booker. take a listen to what he said. >> so those democrats who are looking for an alternative now,

i want to make the case today very directly that look no further. i can and have excited a diverse coalition of voters. i can and have united progressives and moderates. and i will not divide this party and drag others down in personal attacks for the sake of winning a short-term polling boost. >> you know, i -- i am all for sometimes get rid of the subtlety. he's basically saying, look, i'm a great compromise. let me show you. it is interesting. i wrote it down. >> let me read to you what a great guy i am. >> but voters hate hearing that -- i mean, i get why he's doing it at this point because i'm with him on paper. he does strike me as the potential compromise between their front-runner. >> but he believes in himself so little that he needs to read his own promo speech? i'm sorry. that's pretty lame. >> general election argument, too. it's hard to motivate the base with that message. >> yeah. it really shows how much democratic voters are thinking

like pun ddits this time around >> cory booker is thinking like a pundit there. if they were, would elizabeth warren be the front-runner? >> i just mean on the electability front. cory booker is speaking to this question, which he knows is on people's minds. and yes, look, i mean elizabeth warren's rise in the polls has tracked with how democratic voters perceive her strength in a general election. her polls have risen at the same time her electability numbers perception among democrats has risen. >> and we've also been having the same conversation about elizabeth warren since april. and she -- >> actually, we've had the same conversation about elizabeth warren since '16 in fairness. >> that's true. her poll numbers do keep rising so she has a strong organization, strong campaign. >> that's right. but i'm old enough to remember -- >> yeah. >> donald trump -- >> there will be more of that. >> yeah. >> okay. leanne, sahil, adrian, and danny, thank you all. quick reminder, set your

calendar. moderators, andrea mitchell, rachel maddow, kristin welker, and ashley parker. watch it right here on msnbc november 20th. and up ahead, a tribute to the life of a congressman, elijah cummings. how a house so often divided happen to be coming together to honor his legacy. ed happen to be coming together to honor his legacy i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro. old spice antipersprant spray and old spice antipersprant stick, each has different approchaes to armpits. but they do have one thing they can agree on. no sweat in the nfl

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giant on capitol hill. you're looking live at statuary hall where congressman elijah cummings is lying in state. he is the very first african-american lawmaker to do so. cummings died last week at 68. first elected to congress in 1996. he became one of its most prominent members chairing the house oversight committee and the congressional black caucus. hundreds gathered in the rotunda today to remember his life. in an era of partisan division, both sides were united in a real way in their admiration. >> elijah was truly a master of the house. he respected its history and in it, he helped shape america's future. >> elijah cummings did not just represent baltimore. he embodied it. >> elijah had a passion for justice. justice for those who are underserved. justice for those who are undercut and justice for those who are underestimated. >> he's defined by the character

of his heart, the honesty of his dialogue, and the man that -- the man that we will miss. -- the man that we will miss. >> his casket will return to baltimore for his funeral tomorrow. speaker pelosi, former presidents obama and clinton and hillary clinton will be among the speaker. when we come back, karen bass will join us on cummings' legacy and much more. uch more "mtp daily" is sponsored by the all new 2020 lincoln aviator. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about.

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when congressman cummings spoke he spoke with moral authority reminding us we are better than that. in the midst of these challenging times, chairman cummings remained optimistic that better days were ahead. he observed america is not a perfect country and sometimes she fell down. yet, the chairman made clear based upon her goodness, america always got up. >> that was congresswoman karen bass today honoring congressman elijah cummings. the come woman is the chair of the congressional black caucus in both the house judiciary and foreign affairs committee and she joins me now. congresswoman, i have to say i have sometimes whiplash seeing the remembrances of elijah cummings today with the -- i'm

seeing that picture today and feeling really good about congress. then i saw that picture yesterday. and i'm just -- you can't help but wonder why does it take a death to have something like we had today? >> exactly. i mean, i think that that's a sad testimony of what's going on right now. but today was a day of bittersweet. it was a day that we remembered somebody who true he was a giant and just think of how important his leadership is right at this moment. to lose him now is such a loss and a loss for our entire country. >> well, look, i know a lot of house democrats that thought he would be the best person to oversee a very tough thing like an impeachment inquiry and that that missing moral authority is something that -- it's not easy to replace. >> exactly. and you're absolutely right. you know of course that his committee the government of

oversight and reform was playing a key role and will continue to especially on the emoluments side. >> let me talk about the next 14 weeks here a minute. i'll be honest, congresswoman, i don't know how -- when i say 14 weeks the iowa caucuses are the first monday in february. and you guys are embarking on this impeachment proceeding. that's a point you do need to lay this out for the public. how soon does that need to begin if your mind? >> well -- >> the public airing of all of this. >> i think it's going to begin relative he soon. i believe that -- >> what does that mean? >> perhaps mid november. we are almost to the end of october and we are having daily depositions. so i think we're working as hard as and as fast as we can. you know that we had a two-week recess and the committees were meeting and doing depositions during those entire two weeks. we have a recess coming up and they're going to work through

the recess. >> do you think if you're going to vote on articles they need to be voted on this calendar year? >> i think so. i think it's tough if you get into next year because it's very difficult right in the middle of primary season. i don't think there's a reasons to wait that long. the other thing though and i know you're aware of this, it seems as though the dam is breaking. it was a qualitative change when that whistle-blower came forward. i believe that the state department and the intel community have frankly had enough with this administration and they are coming forward. when i was there for the testimony of ambassador taylor, i sat in front of him. and just felt that i was looking at a patriot. a man of tremendous courage. and i think other people of courage are coming forward as well. we do need all the information -- >> let me -- well, let me ask that. there's another story in "the washington post" that turned out and it may be another trail of bread crumbs for you guys to investigate that there was a trade -- a trade deal was also

being held up at the same time. not just the military aid for ukraine. i december my question is -- i guess my question is when do you have to top gathering evidence? some argue you have enough but yet you don't want to leave a stone unturned. when is enough enough? >> i think we have a list of witnesses we need to get through. i think what's really important we need to know how much damage this administration has done to our country. now, i don't exactly know. i haven't experienced the process before. but when we get into impeachment which i have a hard time image upping we won't go there, we'll have to look at this administration because whoef comes in next -- whoever comes in next will have a tremendous amount of cleanup to do. we need to know how much damage is done to our other allies around the world. we need people to come forward so i don't want to see that shortstopped because we're

rushed by the calendar. >> one of the complaints of the senate republicans that they're putting out this resolution with lindsey graham, mitch mcconnell, 44 senators not all of them signed on to them. saying they don't want to recognize this until you formally vote on the impeachment inquiry. why not call their bluff and hold the vote? >> because you know what? because they would move the bar and they would say something else. you and i know that lindsey graham and the republicans that stormed in to the scif yesterday they're responding to a bully. a bully that has threatened them, a bully that has told them that you know you're not defending me enough. lindsey graham is facing a re-election. i think all of this is really sad. we will vote when it's time to vote. you know that it is not necessary. if we took a vote tomorrow they would raise the bar and say, you know what, this is not a legitimate process until you othis. i think we need to keep our nose

to the ground and continue to move forward. >> congresswoman karen bass, thank you today and thanks for your remarks about congressman elijah cummings as well. that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "beat with ari melber" starts right now. thank you. the democrats are preparing to take the trump impeachment probe public. and rudy giuliani is looking to get his open lawyer and tony schwartz is here and on why the president is on the run like never before. but we begin with the mountain of evidence piling up against donald trump in the impeachment probe and republicans openly experimenting with different and sometimes contradicting ways to combat or distract from that evidence. now the evidence is as you may have noticed pretty hard to counter. others in the house are storming that secure location