it hurts. life will never be what it was with her. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. good morning, i'm frances rivera, msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 6:00 in the east. 3:00 out west. here's what's happening. in just a few hours a new skark will take the stage in the impeachment drama, why president trump and secretary of state mike pompeo might not like what he has to say. >> significant victory for democrat, a federal judge makes an impeachment decision, but is it the final word? >> accidental dial. what to make of a phone call from rudy giuliani to an nbc reporter. >> plus, we add up the testimony this week in the impeachment inquiry, and what it all means for the white house.

>> happening in just a few hours, a crucial witness in the impeachment inquiry is set to testify. philip weaker is a stop state department officialer overseeing policy in eurasia and europe, and he is expected to corroborate key testimony from other officials this. as a portrait is emerging of a quid pro quo that evolved over time with the president progressively upping the ante when his demands were not met. just last night, a double legal victory for house democrat, a federal judge dismissed claims from the white house, and congressional republicans, that the impeachment inquiry is illegitimate because it hasn't been authorized in a formal house vote. the judge writes quote each in cases of presidential impeachment, a house resolution has never in fact been required to begin an impeachment inquiry. the department of justice must turn over the secret grand jury mu testimony in the mueller report

by next wednesday. >> it is not a win for democrats but ultimately a win for the american people. it was a major victory for the constitution, and for the fundamental rule of law. >> the whole country can now see that the republicans are just trying to obstruct the progress of justice. >> it's not only those redactions that are in the report, but what did the witnesses say, that gives um some of the texture, some of the details that might be related to. so things we're finding out now. >> also new this morning, a key witness in the impeachment inquiry has filed a lawsuit, asking a federal judge to rule whether he can be deposed on monday. the house has subpoenaed former deputy national security adviser charles kupperman, but the white house has invoked quote constitutional immunity. this lawsuit puts into question whether the president's national security adviser john bolton will be able to testify. and with another round of depositions scheduled for this week, the president dismissed calls from his allies to boost

his impeachment defense. >> i don't have teams. everyone is talking about teams. dy nothing wrong. rudy giuliani is a fine man. he was the greatest may nert history of new york and one of the biggest crime fighters and corruption fighters. >> we start off turning to the white house and be in's hans nichols. put in perspective the judge's new ruling on impeachment and where the strategy from the white house stands today as more testimony is expected. >> well, in terms of the overall effect of the ruling, i don't think we quite know, because the justice department is still trying to figure out whether or not they can appeal it and there is always the possibility of the appeal. if it holds though, it is significant, and i'll tell you why. on the top of it, it undercuts the entire white house argument that you need to have a formal impeachment vote, the full house has to vote, and before that, everything else is illegitimate. in fact, the judge cited the letter from pat ciprioni talking about how the white house wasn't going to be cooperating is tipping the scales arguing that

they should have access to the raw grand jury testimony, all that evidence, in the mueller report. now, in terms of practical effects, if the house does have to go through and does get access to the mueller report, that could potentially extend the overall impeachment inquiry. remember, there have been some back and forth about when it would go to an open hearing, when this would go to its next phase. now, in terms of the strategy for the white house, the president was down there in south carolina, he's equating his experience with that of historic injustice endured by african-americans, but of the actual strategy, it seems to be the presidential mouthpiece, is what the president wants to, do and as he said, before he left for south carolina, he's the guy calling the shots. >> here's the thing. i don't have teams, everyone is talking about teams, i'm the team, i did nothing wrong. this has been going on since before i got elected. and people are angry about it. and you know who's angry about particular the republican party

is angry about it, because this isn't a takedown of the president, this is a takedown of the republican party. >> now, one person we do know that has some influence, i don't want it say a lot, but has some influence on the president is senator lindsey graham, and he flew down to south carolina with him, so we'll see as the white house sort of digests this latest judicial ruling whether or not they recalibrate their response. >> you know the saying, there is no "i" in team. and we'll see where this takes the president and we're learning a trump organization is considering selling the dc hotel which has been a source of controversy since trump took office. what's behind that? >> reporter: we don't know what's behind it. we know their option to sell, what they have is actually a lease on the property, basically opens up this month. there is a three-year hold on it. it's now in its third year. what the trump organization, the trump family is saying is that it has been so profitable, now might be the time to sell, so they're exploring a sale. the president obviously doesn't

think there is any conflict of interest there. you've heard him talk about the phony emoluments clause which prevents foreign leaders from paying the president any sort of way, it is a huge issue when presidents, foreign leaders come here, and stay at the hotel. so we'll see whether or not they actually go through with the sale. if they, did it would likely lose its branding as the trump hotel. guys? >> as we've seen in other properties as well. hans nichols to start us off, thank you. let's discuss with the newsday national politics reporter, amly and jonathan allen, nbc news national political reporter. great to have you this early in the morning. let's start with the deposition in a few hours, the top state department official, philip reeker in a rare testimony on a saturday, you have the daily beast reports key reveal more details about the ousting of a former ambassador of the ukraine here and he is also expected to talk about efforts by the ambassador to the european union, to pressure ukraine to investigate the president's political rivals. so emily, talk about the significance in that. >> coming together on a saturday

means they are really trying, to the democrats are really trying to fast track this process and gather as much information as they can before they make all of the evidence public. but reeker himself, another state department official is to be on the hill today, and really expected to back up some of the very cons convention, co consequential deposition testimony of bill taylor which could be another piece of the puzz thal is coming together and look bad for the president and rudy giuliani and the allies that are involved in the ukraine scandal. >> and stacking up, therefore, the democrats speaking to, that jonathan, another win on that column, you've got house democrats and the federal judge, ruling that the impeachment inquiry is legal. he writes, quote, the white house's stated policy of noncooperation with the impeachment inquiry weighs heavily in favor of disclosing grand jury materials. so what does this signal to the

white house about where this impeachment inquiry is, jonathan? >> it signals several things, frances. number one, that the grand jury testimony is going to the hill, which is not something that the white house wanted. number two, that the house isn't going to have to vote on the impeachment inquiry to get things, unless there's some sort of reversal later on down the road, but that's a sort of shoot the moon strategy for the white house. and number three, that you're probably going to see some future court rulings along these lines that suggest the house is going to get access to witnesses and testimony that it has been seeking. it is unlikely that you're going to see the courts weighing heavily on the idea, that the white house should be able to have a sort of blanket immunity, from being able to testify, or having documents set up on the the hill, democrats were expecting this victory in court, and they are expecting to be able to talk to don mcgahn, former white house counsel and some of the others, it's just a

matter of how long that takes, so this was something they were pleasantly surprised by, in terms of timing, but not surprised by in terms of the outcome. >> and so you've got the white house and the president now, you know, what do they do? and the "washington post" is reporting this, that president trump and his closest advisers, now recognize that the snowballing probe poses a serious threat to the president, and that they have little power to block it. that's according to multiple aides and advisers. so emily, what's your assessment of the president's messaging. earlier we heard him say i am the team in all of this. >> as much as the president would like to tell reporters and publicly that he's the team, and he alone acts as the chief strategist, and the communications director, and he doesn't need people around him, the fact that he is gathering a team indeed behind the scenes and lawyering up, and lining people up, to help control the narrative, whether it's communications, or otherwise, shows that he realizes the walls are closing in on him and he

feels very much in hot water. the acknowledgment that he needs a defense is significant. >> a pivotal moment, with the acting ambassador to ukraine bill taylor testified and detailed a quid pro quo. he testified he voiced his disagreement in a diplomatic cable to secretary of state mike pompeo. let's remind viewers of that exchange. >> and bill taylor announced his misgivings, what is he going to do, what did you talk about? >> i'm not going to address those concerns. >> i came today to talk about work force development. >> and is it getting tougher for pompeo and other top officials to evade questions about the evidence that's going to come out? >> what he was sitting on, the seat he was sitting on was getting hotter by the second, as you can see on his face. this is of course difficult for the secretary of state.

it's difficult for the outgoing secretary of energy. for several other cabinet officials. white house officials. the only person who seems to be comfortable in this much hot water is the president of the united states. he is accustomed to being the target of investigations. being subject to this kind of scrutiny. the sort of vice, if you will, is tightening in the house. none of the facts that are emerging from these hearings that are being held behind closed doors are things that are good for the administration. we haven't had a day where the president has been able to present counter, you know, facts that are counter to this. >> and then you have the republicans who are saying hey, we need more transparency, come make these public, we have storming of the skiff, earlier this week, as well, so when it comes to the public hearings, we know that possibly democrats are planning to start that in mid november, so wouldn't it be worse for the president and republicans to have all of these

testimonies in public, emily? >> conceivably. as jonathan alluded, to the house republicans and the senate republicans have tried very much to focus on process over substance. but we know now with the latest judicial hearing by the judge, that even the process argument is being undermined. a lot of criticism about how nancy pelosi didn't formally call for a launching of the impeachment inquiry. that was sort of undermined in this latest judicial ruling. so not much left for the republicans to cling on to, as they try to defend the president. >> so one thing is what jonathan, you wrote about, that they could do, and the prospect with the president, may try to fight the impeachment, by shutting down the government in less than a month, and that's when the funding for federal operations expires. what do you think is the likelihood of that? and how would a shutdown change the narrative surrounding this entire inquiry? >> the general idea is tough to predict what the president is going to do. >> right. >> but usually what he has, some sort of chip to throw into the

pile, in high stakes politics, he tends to. let's be clear. if he shuts down the president, that doesn't mean the congress won't operate. the impeachment can go on. this is more of a political move to try to drive public opinion against the house democrats to say they're not doing their jobs and instead trying to impeach him and try to get the public on his side and however the last time you saw public opinion go away from him, in the for him. we will have to see what happens. but the government shuts down nover 21st if the president and the congress can't agree to some sort of stopgap funding mechanism. so we have a few weeks to figure it out. >> and so much could happen in those few week, as we all know. jonathan and emily, thanks for starting us off this morning. >> thank you. now, to overseas, and the video from syria, showing gunfire and mortar shelling by turkish-backed fighters, in their push against kurdish frss in northwestern syria yesterday. this, despite a u.s.-brokered cease fire. in brussels 2,000 miles away

u.s. defense secretary mark esper seeing the change of course once more and the u.s. will have combat vehicles and armored troops to protect oil fields. and there's more on protecting oil and protecting soldiers, back home. erin has more from turkey. what more you are learning about the u.s. troops in syria? >> reporter: well, hey, frances president trump says the troops are coming home. but a defense official in dc tells nbc that there are plans in the works to send more troops into eastern syria, to secure the oil fields. we heard from u.s. defense secretary mark esper, say that this is all about the next phase of isis. take a listen. >> the united states will maintain a reduced presence in syria to deny isis access to oil revenue, as we reposition for the next phase of the defeat isis campaign. because we want to make sure that they don't have access to

the resources that may allow them to strike within the region, to strike europe, to strike the united states. otherwise, all the other armed forces are intended to return home. >> reporter: meanwhile, clashes continue between turkish-backed militia and kurdish fighters and we're seeing harrowing video emerge from the conflict as well, that shows a young injured ypj fighter, a female fighter, captured by turkish backed militia, they threaten her and they mock her. nbc actually reached out to her family, sat down and talked with them, they're actually terrified for her. they identified her as 26-year-old, where they're very worried about her safety. and meanwhile, the turkish militia that captured her say she is being treated well. frances? >> nbc's erin mclaughlin in turkey, thank you. now, to the headlines, that read, the president has no defense. legal perspective on the

impeachment. and why one column suggests the best the president can hope for is mercy. i've always been fascinated by what's next.

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damaging testimony from u.s. envoy, to ukraine bill taylor, this week, presents some new challenges for president trump's legal team. as former federal prosecutor ronaldo marioti puts it in "politico" magazine, the president has no defense. on its face, taylor's testimony

tuesday established the quid pro quo that trump has denied for week, but more importantly taylor's detailed notes of the highly irregular policy making that he witnessed over the summer provide a road map to feature testimony that could be even more harmful. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, good morning to you. you take that and those words, what's your interpretation of ambassador taylor's testimony and how it might hurt the president's defense strategy? >> there are a couple of schools of thought. one is that the president could have been impeached many weeks ago when he simply adopted a statement that was released, not exactly a transcript, but if the president adopted it, it is as good as an admission and that statement essentially established a request for help from ukraine, and investigating, not just corruption generally, but essentially a direct line to investigating his political opponent joe biden. so you could have gone forward with impeachment back then. instead, with the investigation since, what we're establishing here is that there was, through

taylor's testimony, it seems, that this was part of an overall plan, to get ukraine to cooperate with investigating whether it be burisma or hunter biden. so what you get from bill taylor's testimony is further evidence of this alleged quid pro quo. and not just in one instance on one phone call, but part of a sustained practice. so the thinking goes, that president trump should essentially own up to it now, take whatever political backlash comes from it, and hold out that the odds are he would survive in the senate in an impeachment trial. >> i want to talk about that. because when it comes to what's next, what's the president's move, you have mariotti who writes this, if i were one of the president's lawyer, i would council him to admit the obvious, essentially to plead guilty and admit this was in fact a quid pro quo, and try to convince congress and the public that it is not as bad as it looks. he goes on to say, in my experience, detectives who

stubbornly try to deny the obvious in the face of overwhelming evidence rarely convince anyone. so is that an extension of what you were just saying is, that the best approach for the president right now? >> that is the best approach for criminal defendants. but this president is going to stick with his policy. which has been deny and in the alternative, say it's no big deal anyway. you can't do that as a criminal defendant. you can't say, i didn't do this, but if i did, so what. that's exactly what the president does. so it's not part of his theme to start denying now, or admitting responsibility now. instead, look for him to continue to deny, continue to call it a witch hunt, but obviously add that even if i did do it, i could have done it, there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not that big of a deal anyway. >> well, let's go back, danny, to how this whole thing got started, with a whistle-blower. and we haven't said that word in a while, it seems like. because after all of this testimony, especially from taylor is, this whistle-blower even relevant at this point?

>> there's a good argument that the whistle-blower is less relevant or even arguably irrelevant now because the whistle-blower complaints were bombshell at the time but consider most of it was secondhand information that has been largely borne out or in some instances denied by subsequent testimony. by what we would call witnesses who actually saw and heard these events. so in a sense, the whistle-blower's initial allegation, although they were explosive, have sort of fallen by the wayside. not because they weren't important because testimony since and evidence since has either borne it out or in some cases denied it. >> we're talking about the testimony here and the testimony to come. taylor, as far as his testimony, he raised these concerns, with then national security adviser john bolton, a person close to bolton told nbc news that bolton's lawyers have been in contact with committee officials. does that suggest to you that bolton will testify? and how critical might that be?

>> again, bolton is another piece of the puzzle who would have had knowledge or about some of the events going on here, and with each additional person coming in to testify, the big question is, whose story is this person going to back up? like bolton, will he back up sondland's testimony? or will he back up bill taylor's testimony? so he promises to be a very important piece of the puzz physical he eventually comes in to testify. >> we are watching closely, the inquiry and the taxes, and the president. and quickly, did the authorities, can they indict him while in office, talk about that a little bit. you have the president's lawyers arguing this week even though the president shot someone in the middle of fifth avenue, he is not going to get into trouble. >> that is a bad pr argument to make, because even mayor deblasio because if the president said something, we be arrested. and we don't want to think about that constitutional possibility. but in reality, the president's

team has a point. the ability of a local authority, forget federal authorities because that was essentially one of the conclusions of the mueller report, but a local state authority, to charge the president, it's probably not something that can happen. not for separation of powers issue, but under the supremacy clause. under the idea that the federal government is supreme over the state government, and the state government likely, and i say likely, because a court could somehow conclude otherwise. likely could not charge the president while he's in office. >> danny cevallos as always, great perspective this early in the morning. thank you. rudy giuliani and his two accidental calls, to an nbc reporter. that's later. >> and in the late night laugh lines, president trump this week says he is going to build a wall in colorado and then later claimed it was all a joke. >> building a border wall in colorado. and a naval base in idaho.

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now to the morning headlines, flames from the tick

wildfire are burning from one end of california to the other. two million residents could be affected by cautionary power outages according to pacific gas and electric. areas of the state the fire has slerred in intensity producing harrowing accounts of damage. >> the winds are very erratic. and when they get going, they really get going. >> little kids. i mean everything is gone. >> tens of thousands of californians are being driven from their homes in the wake of the fire. and california governor gavin newsom has declared a state of emergency. these are pictures this morning of maria butina arriving in moscow a short time ago, immigration and customs removed a foreign agent and citizen from the u.s. yesterday, this followed a judicial removal order, she departed from miami international airport on a direct flight to moscow at approximately 6:00 p.m. eastern. she was convicted of conspiracy to act as an agent of a foreign

government: and actress felicity huffman has been released from a federal prison in northern california. huffman was serving a two-week sentence for her role in a massive college admissions scandal. new details on the anonymous administration official who wrote a tell-all book saying voters should know the truth and is now calling on other senior officials to speak out. nbc's andrea mitchell has more. >> reporter: the anonymous senior trump official, issuing a warning, the title of the fourth coming book, tromsing to speak the truth about, promising to speak the truth about the president, acknowledging some will find it disloyal, too many people have confused loyalty to a man with loyalty to the country, tantalizing new hints on the newly released book jacket saying you will hear a great deal from donald trump directly, for there is no better witness to his character than his own words. the same anonymous source first angering the president last year, with a "new york times" column, declaring, i am part of the resistance. >> can you believe it,

anonymous. meaning gutless. a gutless editorial. >> he later calling it treason. the author calling on others to come forward, before the election, writing, the truth about the president must be spoken. hopefully others will remedy the error of silence and choose to speak out. >> i understand anonymous is going to explain why they need to remain anonymous. but really, come on, just have the courage to come forward, and tell us who you are, and what you know. that will make the what you know part so much more powerful. >> the author reportedly relied heavily on notes from white house meetings. the president who famously does not like note taking once even snapped at then national security adviser hr mcmaster for writing in a notebook. >> former trump staffers say many took notes or drafted memos immediately after meetings with the president. in order to protect themselves. >> that was nbc's andrea mitchell reporting. the anonymous book comes out next month. more russian troops move into syria, while u.s. forces go

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that's a 26% increase from a year ago. and during the trump administration, the deficit has gone up almost 50%. if anything ever happens with this phony witch hunt, that the democrats are doing, the do nothing democrats, i really believe that you would have a recession depression, the likes of which this country hasn't seen. >> and the president is again predicting the economic peril for the country, if he is removed from office. but that outlook didn't seem to worry wall street. >> all three major indices rose yesterday, mostly because of strong earnings reports. for the week, the dow gained nearly 1%, the s&p 500 rose 1.3%, and the nasdaq almost 2%. more russian troops and military police are arriving on the border to take over patrols of former kurdish territory between turkey and syria.

the turkish-backed militias continued attacks yesterday on kurdish fighters pushing them farther northwest where the displaced kurds also are flowing into those areas. this comes days after president trump celebrated what he called a great outcome in syria. >> today's announcement validates our course of action with turkey, that only a couple of weeks ago was scorned, and now people are saying, wow, what a great outcome. congratulations. >> joining me now is christopher dicky, world news editor with the daily beast and msnbc contributor, always good to have you, christopher. i want to talk about your latest article, analyzing those remarks from the president. where do things stand today? >> well, what we've seen is a great shift away from protecting people, to protecting oil that we don't need in the united states. it's very hard to understand,

except it looks as though president trump is trying to create the fiction of some kind of victory here, which is what he was doing in those remarks a couple of days ago. and at the expense of the lives of many kurds, the livelihoods of many kurds, the homes of many kurd, basically they're going to be ethnically cleansed from northeast syria, and he's keeping troops, lots of troops in the middle east, and even in syria, he's not bringing them home. so in fact, what he was talking about, a couple of days ago, was a complete fiction, and nobody was congratulating him then, much less today. >> christopher, you say that the syria presser was the craziest yet. you see it there, that headline. explain how. >> well, there were a number of things that were kind of delusional. there were places that he would wander offscript, and you could see him trying to keep from identifying the united states as

donald trump, donald trump as the united states, congratulating the united states, but also congratulating himself, there was all that, it is typical trump but all very disturbing when you're talking about the lives of so many people hanging in the balance. and one fiction after another. one thing that he said after another. that was completely untrue. not only the question of congratulations. but calling this a great victory, when in fact, what he did was completely capitulate to turkey and hand over northeast syria, to the russian, the iranians and the turks. >> we heard the comments from the president along with his tweets, when it comes to pulling the troops out, bringing them home, saying let somebody else fight, you know, children in a playground, let them fight and then pull out, all of that, and then you have that is correct and then you have the defense secretary now saying combat troops, and armored vehicles, are being sent to protect oil fields in syria. a disconnect. there is a disconnect there. >> well, there's an insane

disconnect. again, why are we protecting oil fields in syria at this point? are we doing that to somehow help the kurds? or do we think as the secretary of defense is suggesting, that in fact, the so-called islamic state is not defeated, is much stronger than we have given it credit for being, or that trump has given it credit for being, and it may retake those oil fields if there are not american troops there. the truth is, the americans defended those oil fields with the kurds back in february of last year, and they defended them against the syrians, and russian mercenaries. the fact is, very soon, i expect to see those oil fields turned over to who? the syrian regime. and russian mercenaries. and trump will congratulate himself again for doing a great job. >> when it comes to those oil fields, you have the president suggesting in a tweet that maybe the kurds should head to the region there. to live. we all know it is unrealistic in this desert area, hundreds of miles away. does the united states have a

relationship with the kurds after this betrayal that cost them their native land? would they even consider something like that? >> no. they won't consider something like that. they may deploy some units down there, to try and protect the oil field force a while, as a bargaining chip, with the regime. but they're in an impossiblybly weak position. as long as the americans were there with them, turkey could be held at bay. the idea that the turks were going to move in and roll over american special forces is just not what was going to happen. because it had not happened. it wasn't going to happen. the whole idea that trump would give up the northern syrian area which is a kurdish homeland and then tell them to move to the desert, what he likes to call blood-stained sands, is not only insulting, it basically pushes them into the hands of the regimes and the regime and the russians. >> and we saw where the pelting of potatoes and other vegetables there, to the u.s., how that

symbolizes what they may be feeling. some security experts fear also a potential resurgence of isis after prisoners escaped from camps in syria. how do you think that isis and the threat will play out? >> i think isis will gain a lot of strength from this. among other things, who would fight isis on the ground now? we know that bashar al assad released isis prisoners in order for them to create a jihadist force that he could then say he is fighting as terrorism, but he never fought isis, the turks the second biggest army in nato, never fought against isis, the russians did not fight against isis. the people who fought against isis are the americans and the kurds and the americans are not willing to fight that fight any more on the grown, they never were, and our kurds are not our allies anymore. we made that clear. >> certainly high stakes as a result of that. christopher dicky, as always, thank you. with so many republican

senators staying silent on impeachment does president trump have more reason to worry? we'll tackle that next. >> and on november 20, msnbc and the "washington post" host the next democratic debate in georgia and we want to know what's the one question you would ask the candidates if you had the chance. send us your question at msnbc.com/debate for a chance to have the question asked by one of our moderators. have the quese of our moderators. with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestylelibre.us you can do it without fingersticks. through the at&t network, edge-to-edge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. from finding out what's selling best...

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this morning's numbers to know, the first pertaining to the impeachment inquiry, and the republican complaints about being shut out of the process, resulting in wednesday's notorious storming stunt. and yet, 47 republicans are members of the three participating committees and permitted to ask witnesses questions. well, that's nearly a quarter of the 197 republicans in the house. >> that is wrong. and that is why i am in this fight. >> so folks, get up, remember, this is the united states of america, we can do anything. >> and now to the battle for the white house, and a milestone, before the first vote, today marks the 100th day before the iowa caucuses, and the beginning of the primary season. and at this time, an electoral

tie with democrats and republicans with 248 electoral votes. and that leaves only 42 toss-up electoral votes, with only three states up for grabs. we are talking about pennsylvania, arizona, and wisconsin. new insight in to voters and their thinking on impeachment. a new poll finds americans are divided down the middle on question whether president trump should be impeached and removed from office. 49% say yes and 49% say no. democrats stand at 89%. and republicans opposing it at 90%. support from independents for impeachment could spell trouble for president trump. 53% in favor, with 44% opposing impeachment and removal. joining me, democratic strategist anjuan seabright, former adviser to president clinton's campaign. and i want to keep in mind this poll is not about the

impeachment inquiry, it is about im epa and removing president trump. so if a majority of independents are already on board, what does that mean for democratic strategy moving forward? >> well, it just means we have to be methodical. and treat this as the marathon, not a sprint. my leader, whip clyburn said this early on in the process, we have to gather intel and make the case to the american people. if you're not doing politics seven days a week, 24 hours a day, this does not really impact your everyday quality of life and most americans are focused on trying to do basic things in life because they have not been able to get out of a rut thanks to this current president. with that being said, democrats are doing a magnificent job of making the case and showing the corruption that continues to overflow from this administration, with the understanding if they even pass articles of impeachment, that the senate, who refuses to pass gun legislation and other things, are just going to do a

normal to-do and do nothing. >> jonathan turning to you now and listen to the president talking about impeachment this week. >> i see this guy congressman al green saying we have to impeach him, otherwise he's going to win the election. and that's exactly what they're saying. we have to impeach him, because otherwise i'm going to win the election. i think they want to impeach me because it's the only way they're going to win. they got nothing. >> the president trying to tie impeachment to 2020. jonathan, what's the reality? >> the question is why are they related? how are they related? are they related for different reasons today than they were before? one reason the democrats are saying they have to impeach him or he'll be re-elected, is because they believe that he's committing crimes against the country and that if he's

re-elected he will continue to commit crimes against the country. so that's one reason to impeach him now, remove him from office. another reason is the political one that i want to see the president of the united states have power. the extent to which you can separate those things, separate the politics from what they see as a constitutional crisis is basically what they're going to have to do as they make the case that antoine was talking about to the american public, that the president has doing something that not only merits his removal from office, but requires it. >> when you have that on the outside, about a potential 2020 gain for them, if the president is impeached, how much, if you're going to weigh that at all, how much of that is actually pressing them? >> well i don't know. but the one thing i do know, is that nancy pelosi, steny hoyer and jim clyburn know how to count and 218 is the magic number. when you look at the districts that democrats won in the 2018

mid-terms and the polling is in terms of front-line democrats, they're thinking strategically in the short and long-term. so the important thing i think for this democratic congress and leadership is to gather all of the information they can to have a clear-cut case before you pull the trigger. the worst thing you can do in any fight is show up half-cocked. the democrats are not being in a hurry. this is about national security and really, making sure the guardrails that the founding fathers put in place, called the constitution, is done, is occupied the best it can. >> jonathan, i want to shift and talk about rudy giuliani. because odd news here, look at the headlines, rudy giuliani butt-dials nbc reporter, heard discussing need for cash and trashing the bidens. let's listen to part of the

voicemail he received from that october 16 call. >> you know, charles, would have a hard time with a fraud case because he didn't do any due diligence. tomorrow i got to get you to get on bahrain. you gotta call. you got to call robert again tomorrow. is robert around? the problem is, we need some money. we need a few hundred thousand. >> jonathan, can you imagine being rick shapiro, who got this voice message and is listening to this and talking about money, we need it. talk about the context there, what can you tell us about about those remarks and do we know why giuliani says he needs money? >> i don't want to say that i'm jealous, francis. but it's always nice to wake up to a call from a source of yours who is, in, in the news and inadvertently called you and left a message which has all kinds of details of foreign

transactions going on in the background. it is clear that there is you know, obviously rudy giuliani is involved in a lot of global dealings and it's clear that he was trying to get some money for one of them there. there are a lot of unanswered questions for that message that he left for rich shapiro. dy hear rich talk about how he tried to clarify that this with rudy giuliani. he's called rudy giuliani a few times and has not gotten a call back. >> there you have your strategy, go text and call him. so you're at the top of list and he can get you right back. thanks so much to both of you. he says i am the team. president trump running his own pr campaign against impeachment and what it says about the overall strategy. (burke) at farmers insurance,

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good to be with you, i'm frances rivera in new york at msnbc world headquarters. it's 4:00 a.m. out west and day 33 of the impeachment inquiry. in the last 24 hours, critical developments from the white house to the capital to the courts. here's a snapshot as we bring you the latest. >> nbc news confirming that an investigation into the origins of the russia probe closely overseen by attorney general william barr has now changed from an administrative review,

to a criminal investigation. >> nbc news has learned lawyers for fired national security adviser john bolton have been in touch with house committee officials who want to interview him. given the way that based on my sources and reporting bolton left the white house, he may have some stories to tell. >> breaking news right now again a big piece of news, the chief judge for the d.c. district court has just issued an opinion ordering the release of quote all portions of the mueller report that were redacted, and any underlying transcripts or exhibits referenced in the portions of the mueller report that were redacted. >> this is a big victory for house democrats. >> we're going to follow the facts where they lead us. and that is important work that lays ahead before the congress. >> senator lindsey graham's resolution condemning the house impeachment inquiry has the support from 50 senate republicans. three gop senators have still not endorsed this resolution. mitt romney of utah, lisa merkowski, alaska, susan collins