went in. i strongly disagreed with it, even though it wasn't my expertise at the time, but i have a very good instinct about things. they went in and i said that's a tremendous mistake. and there were no weapons of mass destruction. it turned out i was right. i was right for other reasons, but it turned out on much to everything else. they had no weapons of mass destruction because that would be a reason to go in. but they had none. but i heard recently that iraq over the last number of years actually discriminates against america in oil leases. in other words, some oil companies from other countries, after all we've done, have an advantage in iraq for the oil. i said keep the oil. give them what they need. keep the oil. why should we -- we go in. we lose thousands of lives,

spend trillions of dollars, and our companies don't even have an advantage in getting the oil leases. so i just tell you that story. that's what i heard. >> did gina haspel play a role in this? and i saw your nsc counterterrorism director out in the hallway. was there a role with nsc? >> yes, everybody. gina was great. everybody played a role. joe was great. gina was great. they were all great. >> just to follow up. did your syria pullout -- did that generate the intelligence that led to this operation? >> no. we were looking at this -- look, as i said, steve, i've been looking at this three years. they come in, sir, we have somebody under -- i said, i don't want somebody. i want al baghdadi. that's the one i want. they say, well, we have somebody else. i say that's great. fine. take him out. but i want al baghdadi.

that's who i want. i don't want other people. and then i also wanted hamza bin laden because he's a young man, around 30. looks just like his father. tall, very handsome, and he was talking bad things just like his father. you know if you read my book, there's a book just before the world trade center came down. and i don't get any credit for this, but that's okay. i never do, but here we are. i wrote a book, a really very successful book, and in that book about a year before the world trade center was blown up, i said there is somebody named osama bin laden. you better kill him or take him out. something to that effect. he's big trouble. now i wasn't in government. i was building buildings nvd doiand doing what i did, but i always found it fascinating. but i saw this man, tall,

handsome, very charismatic, making horrible statements about wanting to destroy our country. and i'm writing a book. i think i wrote 12 books. all did very well. and i'm writing a book. world trade center had not come down. i think it was about -- if you check it was about a year before the world trade center came down. and i'm saying to people, take out osama bin laden that nobody ever heard of. nobody ever heard of. al baghdadi everybody's heard of because he's built this monster for a long time. but nobody ever heard of osama bin laden until really the world trade center. but about a year, you'll have to check it, a year, year and a half before the world trade center came down, i was talking about osama bin laden. you have to kill him. you have to take him out. nobody listened to me. and to this day, i get people coming up to me. they said what one of the most amazing things i've ever seen about you is that you predicted that osama bin laden had to be

killed before he knocked down the world trade center. it's true. now most of the press doesn't want to write that, but, you know, but it is true. if you go back, look at my book. i think it was "the america we deserve," i made a prediction, and -- let's put it this way. if they would have listened to me, a lot of things would have been different. >> can you talk about some of the difficult decisions you had along the way here in this operation? anything that weighed on you or that you had -- >> well, just death. i'm sending a large number of brilliant fighters. these are the greatest fighters in the world. i'd rather let the generals tell you, but a large number. we had eight helicopters and many other ships and planes. it was a large group. and again, this is a large group heading over very, very strong firepower areas where that was

decision one. will they make it? and they made it. but they took fire. but they made it. they didn't take -- we don't believe it was nation fire. we believe it was individual group fire or gang fire as they call it. so they made it. so that was a big relief. then they went in. they blasted their way in, you've heard. they blasted their way in so quickly. it was incredible. because this building was quite powerful, strong. they blasted their way in, and then all hell broke loose. it's incredible that nobody was killed or hurt. we had nobody even hurt. and that's why the dog was so great. we actually had a robot to go in the tunnel, but we didn't get it because we were tracking him very closely but he had a robot just in case. we were afraid he had a suicide vest on and if you get close and he blows it up, you're going to

die. he had a powerful suicide vest. >> did you make any decisions while troops were on the ground? >> no, they head it just incredible. we were getting full reports on a minute-by-minute basis. sir, we just broke in. sir, the wall is down. sir, you know, we've captured. sir, two people are coming out right now, hands-up. fighters. then the 11 children out. numerous people were dead within the building that they killed. then it turned out they gave us a report. sir, there's only one person in the building. we are sure he's in the tunnel trying to escape but it's a dead end tunnel. and it was brutal, but it was over. and as i said, when he blew himself up, the tunnel collapsed on top of him. and his children. he led his three children to death. so, you know -- >> in the tunnel, that's when the robot followed him in?

>> the robot was set to, but we didn't hook it up because we were too -- they were moving too fast. we were moving fast. we weren't 100% sure about the tunnel being dead-ended. it's possible that there could have been an escape hatch somewhere along that we didn't know about, so we moved very, very quickly. these people, they were moving -- they were chasing, yeah. they were chasing. but again, because of the suicide vest, you can't get too close. again, one of the reasons with the wives is, if they have a suicide vest, you know, you have to be very careful. these vests are brutal. brutal. and they go for a long distance. y please. >> have you spoken or will you speak to the families like the foley family? >> i'm calling the families now. it will be a pleasure to do that. the foley family who i know will be calling kayla's family. what he did to her was incredible. it's a well-known story and i'm not going to say it, but you

know that. he kept her in captivity for a long time. he kept her in his personal captivity. she was a beautiful woman. beautiful young woman. helped people. she was there to help people. and he saw her, and he thought she was beautiful and brought her in to captivity for a long period of time and then he killed her. he was an animal. and a gutless animal. thank you all very much. very great day for our country. >> an incredible amount of headlines over the last 45 minutes or so. good morning, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. donald trump confirming that the world's most wanted terrorist, the leader of isirks was killed in northwest syria overnight in a u.s.-led operation. trump personally approved the

operation himself as he just stated. the leader of isis. abu bakr al baghdadi was among several killed in the raid. watch this. >> last night the united states brought the number one terrorist to justice. abu bakr al baghdadi is dead. baghdadi's demise demonstrates america's relentless pursuit of terrorist leaders and our commitment to the enduring and total defeat of isis and other terrorist organizations. >> abu bakr al baghdadi is dead overnight. joining me from the white house, hans nichols, nbc news correspondent. hans, good to talk to you this morning. you've been reporting on this overnight. it has been an incredible 24 hours or so in the development of this story. the president speaking for almost 50 minutes or so. >> yes. >> going into an incredible

amount of detail with this operation, with the delta force carrying out this operation. the president watching it himself alongside the vice president and many others, the joint chiefs as well. talk me through what you heard the president say there this morning and sort of the unprecedented -- unprecedented amount of information and detail the president went into. >> well, it was unprecedented. we got an incredible amount of operational detail. it was though the president were briefing officer at the pentagon on background, giving you all kinds of detail on how this operation went down. it's clear the president had a strategic purpose in doing that. because you saw that line where he said he died as a coward. he died wimpering. he died like a dog. that is the president trying to turn these operational details into a broader strategic argument. and what he wants to do is paint himself as strong and paint isis as weak and defeated.

now he also gave us a little bit of a refinement. i don't want to say it a tire reversal, but a refinement on where u.s. troops and what u.s. troops, their goal, will be in syria. he said he's going to keep u.s. troops in syria. he said he was only withdrawing them from the border with turkey. that turkey/syria border where he doesn't want them to police the border with the kurds. but he clearly wants u.s. troops and potentially u.s. companies in central syria and that town where there is oil, there is oil reserves that they could potentially have. clearly a longer strategic vision for the president that u.s. forces will secure oil fields and have them for oil companies. and one other quick note. the president talked about who they talked to going before hand. they did not inform house leadership, that's house speaker nancy pelosi. they did inform other players in the region. that's russia, turkey and iraq as well. from the way the president described it, the hour and

ten-minute helicopter flight, the eight helicopters, it seems they left from iraq and then flew over parts of turkey -- excuse me, parts of syria controlled by assad forces as well as the kurds to get to this part of northwest syria. >> hans nichols, thank you. joining me, hallie jackson, chief white house correspondent. talk us through what you were hearing in that over 50-minute or so speech from the president making that major announcement of the killing of abu bakr al baghdadi. >> yeah, it's a significant announcement but, boy, what an extraordinary level of operational details from the commander in chief. it is so unusual. and we can't overstate this enough to be hearing these kinds of specifics from the president, literally just hours after an operation like this goes down. from the number of helicopters to the way that the president described al baghdadi's violent final moments. these were remarks as you look at that picture in the situation room. we learned that's where the president had watched or monitored developments in this

operation. he seems to have had in kind of audio/video feed based on the remarks the president made describing baghdadi as wimpering, screaming and crying in his final moments. again, using some of the language that i think you'd only hear from a president trump. and specifically the way he's laying out how this raid went down in the 50-minute remarkable q&a session with remarkables. ten minutes of remarks. 40 minutes of questions with a remarkable level of detail on where the president was, how he watched this go down. here's a couple of key details that stand out. you talk about timing. the u.s. had known for roughly two weeks of baghdadi's location, specifically for the last three days the president said he had known about this operation. was in the situation room shortly, within a half an hour or so of returning from camp david yesterday, here to the white house. got there with his top officials as they huddled and watched this go down. the president also talked about highly sensitive material that was taken after the death of baghdadi from that compound. this is all but certain to be a

treasure trove for u.s. intelligence officials and others as they look through to find out more about what isis was doing, what they were up to, what baghdadi wanted to see happen. but there's a note of caution here. you're already hearing it from some of our sources and people we've been talking to with our teams. from officials and experts who say, listen, yes, this is a significant moment. baghdadi's death is very significant to the region and to the president. this is going to be considered for years a milestone or at least a major commander in chief moment for president trump. but it doesn't necessarily mean that isis, which is kind of a franchise operation now, is gone for good. no more isis operations. there are still questions about baghdadi's role. more symbolic, less operational and so on. you heard the president talk about the kurds. our kurdish partners providing helpful information, notably mentioning them by name. you know who else he mentioned by name and that's russia. he had been on the deconfliction

line to let russia know that, obviously, u.s. troops would be in the area where, of course, russia is involved along with bashar al assad, the syrians and others. and this is interesting here because the president has faced serious criticism over the last several weeks for seeming to abandon our kurdish partners in the region. the very people he's praising for help with information leading to the death of baghdadi. the president, though, has no second thoughts about that withdrawal from troops from syria. this is something he was asked specifically by some of our colleagues in the press corps who were in the room in the q&a session and said, i want soldiers home. stepping back, this is a president who, as we know, and in my time here covering him since day one of his administration is somebody who is very visual. he is somebody who it's no surprise to you, a tv personality, and that came through, i think, in a real way in these remarks here. the president describing watching this unfold, like a movie. clearly the details so indelible on him. he wanted to talk about it.

he wanted to share in of these detalls. and detalls that we very, very rarely hear from the mouth of the president himself. and this is something that, again, only donald trump, i think, could have said and talked about it in this way, calling terrorists losers and frightened puppies. we'll see how the rest of the day develops. a little moment here, the president is talking about killing the most wanted terrorist in the world. you know where he'll be off tonight? off to a baseball game in washington unless there's a rain-out. it's going to be a very interesting 16, 18 hours for president trump. >> when you talk about the incredible amount of detail, the president going into speaking for 46 minutes, 50 minutes or so. compare that after the killing of osama bin laden when then president obama spoke, that address was only nine minutes or so and compare that to the fist minu 50 minutes we just heard from the president. and the details from that raid came months and months later. >> i was looking at the remarks from president obama when bin

laden was killed. there are real parallels to this. it was basically four sentences that president obama described the actual capture and death of bin laden. four sentences. that's it. much of his speech was spent talking about what bin laden had done, the havoc that he'd wreaked on the world. this could not have been more opposite. so much time discussing the actual death and the operation itself of al baghdadi here. less time until the q&a time on the implications of this. people will call this a victory lap for president trump and he clearly will see it that way, but there are still some questions that remain, specifically on the way that the president's sort of colleagues on capitol hill are going to take this. hans mentioned this briefly. the president did not notify nancy pelosi and others. that's going to be seen as a real slap in the face to members of the gang of eight, congressional leadership who are used to understanding and hearing and processing classified information like this. >> and it's interesting because this stood out to me.

as you were speaking we have the side by side of the situation room, then president obama watching the raid of bin laden. now president trump watching the raid of baghdadi. that was interesting. there we have it up again. what was interesting to me in the last 50 minutes or so as the president was speaking in that the president believes that the killing of abu bakr al baghdadi is a bigger deal than that of osama bin laden. i want to take a listen to that and have you react on the other side. >> if you read my book, there was a book just before the world trade center came down, and i don't get any credit for this, but that's okay. i never do. about a year before the world trade center was blown up, i said there is somebody named osama bin laden. you better kill him or take him out. he was a big thing, but this is the biggest there is. this is the worst ever. osama bin laden was very big, but osama bin laden became big with the world trade center. this is a man who built a whole,

as he would like to call it, a country. >> a bigger deal than the killing of osama bin laden who was the mastermind behind killing thousands and thousands of people. and that's not to discount the lives lost at the hands of abu bakr al baghdadi and all of the terror that he wreaked as the controller of isis. but still, pretty astounding to hear that from the president of the united states saying this is a bigger deal than the killing of osama bin laden. >> it also fits with the way we've seen president trump portray his policy and military victories as he perceives them over the last three years he's been in office. so much of what his administration has done has been to undo, unravel what president obama had done. while the former president is obviously no longer in office, in some ways he's still the shadow hanging over the west wing because president trump wants his legacy to be, in his view, the president who is better than barack obama. that, i think, is what he wants. so it's not a surprise he'd make some of these comparisons.

particularly it's not just about the personalities. it's also about the fact that these, again, were two of the most wanted terrorists in the world. names that are household names. familiar to probably most americans. bin laden certainly and baghdadi over the last five years or so has developed to that degree. president trump has said since day one, he wanted that big name. he wanted somebody that was going to be sort of notable that people knew about so he can say, yes, look, i did this. this is something that i accomplished while i was in office. and so it is, i think, not a surprise he'd speak for 40 minutes about this. he did talk about -- you played that there if i could hear correctly, the idea he foreshadowed this bin laden attack. the president writing about that. just a fact check on that and the associated press reporting this as well that the president really didn't do more other than raise bin laden as a national security threat. this was back before 9/11. moving forward when you look at

the questions that remain unanswered, it remains the fallout not just here on pennsylvania avenue but overseas as well and specifically what the kurds may say or do moving forward here. we've already seen, for example, tweets from general mazloum, the turks talk about this. i don't know that we've heard from russia but i'd be interested to hear what president putin and his team have to say about this. >> we'll be hearing from them pretty soon. i bet you'd make that bet as well. hallie jackson, always appreciate it. joining me from erbil, iraq, courtney kube. i want to start first with something hallie brought up, and it was the president's mention of some of the countries in which he thanked because of this raid. if we can play that, of the president thanking russia and turkey, i'd appreciate it. >> i want to thank the nations of russia, turkey, syria and

iraq, and i also want to thank the syrian kurds for certain support they were able to give us. this was a very, very dangerous mission. thank you as well to the great intelligence professionals who helped make this very successful journey possible. >> so interesting, courtney, he starts with russia there. ends on our allies, the kurds. we also got a tweet from general mazloum. he said for five months there has been joint intel cooperation on the ground and accurate monitoring until we achieved a joint operation to kill abu bakr al baghdadi. what are you hearing from your sources on the ground there and overseas from -- with regards to what we heard from the president? >> so we know that as far as turkey and russia were involved, what we know specifically is that turkey, some of the u.s. aircraft flew over turkish air space. for russia, this -- they also

flew over russian air space. russian-held areas inside syria. the u.s. military has this deconfliction mechanism in place for several years with russia where they maintain their own air space, areas they control in the area, but they work together to ensure -- they call it deconfliction. they work together to ensure that there's no miscommunications, no accidental one aircraft from one military straying into another one. so we know russia was involved in that. you mentioned the tweet from general mazloum, head of the kurdish led syrian opposition group. he said this was months in the making. that may be the case. we don't know that from u.s. military officials. what we do know is that this is some intelligence that became actionable in just about mid-october is the timeline we've got. just over a week before the actual raid yesterday. so that was when these elite special operators came to the country. we know at least some of them

launched out of right here in erbil and flew to northwestern syria from here for the raid. they spent the last week-plus refining their plans, making sure that they had all the best and latest intelligence before they went through with the raid. so if, in fact, there have been several nations, frankly, who have been taking credit for this raid. the iraqi government is saying they were involved in providing some original intelligence to the u.s. they are saying that the timeline was back in september. so the -- from the u.s., we don't have any of that confirmed but there may have been a whole group. sort of a potpourri of intelligence that came in here that led to what ultimately became the actionable information that led to the raid. >> i think you're referring to this from some iraqi officials back in september arresting relatives of abu bakr al baghdadi in northern iraq in the mosul area. that included a wife and a courier and iraqi intelligence saying the interrogation of these individuals helped

identify the coordinates of his safe house which means they would have known since september where he was, but it would be interesting to me, courtney, considering that he is very much a wanted man that he would stay in that exact same location in northwest iraq knowing that the americans were tracking his every move. >> and that's one of the big questions. president trump kind of danced around that a little bit saying that, you know, they were expecting him to move but then he didn't and they kept -- the u.s. kept thinking baghdadi was going to move from one location and didn't move. we don't have any fidelity on that. that's one of the many questions we're continuing to ask and get answers to. there have been a number of reports that baghdadi has been injured. one of them was, in fact, he wasn't able to move for several months at a time. you mentioned the iraqi intelligence report. i think it was reuters who reported that first. that specifically said that baghdadi had been at that safe house for about two months,

according to the information that they gained, which, if that's true, i mean, that's fascinating. it reminds me back to the raid in 2011 where we all had this notion that bin laden wise hiding in a complex of caves and working with couriers in pakistan when he had been living in a compound in abadabad near the pakistani military academy. so that's one of the many questions we have. we don't really know how long baghdadi had been there. it does seem this location was some sort of a safehouse and the u.s. military officials are confirming after they finished this hours-long raid -- >> oh, it seems as if we've lost courtney. if we get her back, we'll bring her to you. want to go to turkey. erin mclaughlin is joining us from there. one of the country's thanks by the president in his 50-minute or so speech, talk me through

what you are hearing from your perspective. >> yeah, well, watching that press conference was truly remarkable. the level of detail the president went into in that press conference was perhaps unprecedented, especially from a middle eastern perspective. rarely do you hear a leader in this region express what exactly happened in the context of intelligence operation with that level of candor. and the images and the visuals that president trump provided during that press conference will be truly shocking to many in the middle east. the idea of baghdadi running from u.s. forces, u.s. forces under the cover of darkness, landing at the compound, blasting down the walls of the compound, chasing him into a tunnel. baghdadi grabbing three of his children, running into a dead end, being chased by dogs before

killing himself is something people in this region will find truly shocking. they'll also most likely be shocked at a u.s. president thanking russia. thanking turkey. thanking iraq. thanking the kurdish sdf in the same sentence. that is very, very unusual, especially considering the conflict that we've seen here for the past two weeks. now we have heard some additional reaction from the kurdish sdf in a statement saying that they did provide intelligence to the united states to help in this operation. also alleging that the operation was delayed due to turkey's incursion into syria. and there's also questions outstanding for turkey as well. especially when you consider that baghdadi was killed in idlib province, some three miles away from the border. raising a lot of eyebrows as to how someone like baghdadi could have been hiding out in an

environment that was hostile to isis. keep in mind that the groups operating in idlib are no friends of isis. but the president in that press conference clarifying that saying that he believed that baghdadi was in idlib province to try and strengthen isis, to try and get isis to have a stronghold in the province but nevertheless, again, three miles from the turkish border, lots of questions. >> yeah, a lot of questions. it's interesting that you bring that part up. i also want to mention senator lindsey graham will be appearing in the white house briefing room so we're going to bring you that as soon as he comes up. but, erin, you bring up the point of the fact that isis -- or that baghdadi was in northwest syria where he was captured. the president mentioning he was there to try and rebuild isis. but we had our own richard engel saying, no, he was in that region possibly to try and escape to turkey to flee the area. what are you hearing with regard to this discrepancy and what our

reporting is indicating and what many on the ground are saying versus what the president said this morning? >> i mean, the president saying that he was there to try and rebuild isis possibly but the bottom line is we just don't know how he could have gotten into that region. remember, you know, speaking to many analysts familiar with this area, he is most comfortable in iraq. they have long thought that baghdadi was located in the border regions between syria and iraq. he is iraqi. that's where he has his networks. that's where he'd be able to hide. that's where he'd be able to most comfortably operate. so to suddenly find him three miles from turkey, you know, raises all sorts of questions. it's unclear exactly what he was doing there. >> but does it seem realistic to you that baghdadi would be trying to rebuild isis in an area that is not at all friendly to him or what he is trying to

achieve? >> i mean, that's the question a lot of people are asking. we're going to have to get more information essentially to figure out what exactly he was doing in idlib province, how exactly he got there. we last heard from him in a video in april in which he seemed to be turning isis outward. it was a month after the defeat of his so-called caliphate. his last stronghold was gone at the hands of syrian kurdish forces and u.s. forces. he then released a video in april of him sitting down and basically saying that he was taking isis global other to countries such as the drc. such as sri lanka. that that was going to be his focus, as well as focusing on other parts of the middle east. i think his long-term strategy remains to be seen. i also think it's worth noting that we have yet to hear any official reaction from the isis propaganda machine which we know is vocal on his death.

we have heard from some isis sympathizers on channels such as telegram, places they're known to frequent. and they are basically saying that even if he is confirmed dead, they'll continue on with the isis project just in the way that al qaeda continued on following the death of osama bin laden. >> what do you make of the president saying they've identified the next leaders of isis? >> i mean, that's entirely possible. analysts i've been speaking to in the region tell me that they would -- isis would have a succession plan in place given the fact that there was an intelligence leak within isis to the point where the united states was able to track him down into a tunnel provoking him to detonate a suicide vest suggests that the united states has a lot of intelligence, actionable intelligence on isis, its inner workings, how it operates. so it would make complete sense that they'd also have a general

idea of who would be his successor. and those plans would undoubtedly be in place because of who baghdadi is and the likelihood that this could potentially have happened to him, that he would be killed in some sort of operation. >> as we saw with al qaeda, just because you kill the leader of an organization does not mean the organization is then dead. they very much continue on. erin mclaughlin, appreciate your reporting on this. want to go to nbc news military analyst colonel jack jacobs. thanks for talking to us on this. i first want to gettior reaction really to what we heard from the president from the white house just earlier. >> well, i'll reiterate things other people said because it's worth noting. and that is there was an unprecedented level of detail. some of it may even be classified at one point, dispensed to everybody, and shortly after the action. i've never heard that level of -- you see that kind of thing in an after-action report. one aside, the president said

that baghdadi was the founder of isis. that's not correct. it was al zarqawi. it also brings up the point about succession. we've killed a succession of leaders, deputy leaders, second and third in command of isis and other terrorist organizations, and they carry on. what's made isis different is the decision to go to a terrain-based model. that is, they wanted a caliphate, which they would rule actual terrain. and they took over large swaths of syria. the problem with that is that if you are an organization like isis, that's not inherently terrain based, that puts you at tremendous risk from your advrsaries like the united states and others who can very easily take the terrain back and to the extent that isis has

changed dramatically into something else that is just a terrorist organization now. it was as a result of the decision to become a caliphate. and, therefore, to defend terrain which they couldn't possibly do. >> let's talk -- there's a couple of things i want to cover with you. i want to talk about the significance of the killing of baghdadi. what that does to an organization like isis that has already been weakened, and we have reported over and over again, it is not completely obliterated despite the fact the president says it is. so i want to talk about that. i also want to talk about some of the details of the raid and what the president laid out for us. let's first touch on the significance of the killing here of baghdadi and what that does to isis. >> well, we don't know what his plans were. it's strongly suggests he was trying to escape because he was doing other things that would be elsewhere if he was trying to rebuild it. so his assertion earlier,

baghdadi's, that what he wanted to do was take the fight to other countries and, therefore, become another terrorist organization, that makes a great deal of sense, and i think that was his plans. and destroying him makes it extremely difficult for them to operate it multilaterally in a wide variety of places, to coordinate activities in a wide variety of places. whoever is going to take over and undoubtedly, they have somebody to take over. there's a series of people who might take over. whoever it is has got to -- a big job ahead of them. and when you destroy a leader of an organization like this, it becomes fragmented. it becomes more difficult to deter them from doing things. but it comes -- becomes much easier to take them out bit by bit. so this is a very big deal getting rid of this guy. we'll see what happens over the next few months or so. but i suspect we'll see terrorists operations in a

number of different countries where they can apply. i did want to talk about -- yeah. >> i wonder here if this type of killing only reinforces the ideology of baghdadi's followers. in fact, strengthens it. >> well, it doesn't make it any easier for those of us who want to destroy the organization completely. >> all right. let's -- colonel, let's take a listen to senator lindsey graham. we'll come back to you in a second. >> -- announcing what happened and he said, why don't you come to the white house. i said i'd love to come, and i'm honored to be here on this day that really does matter. i think to the world, not just the united states. and trying to put into word s what does it matter. i think last night, the best of america confronted the worst of mankind and the good guys won. the good guys and the good gals won, the dog, trying to find out the name of the dog.

pray for the dog. it was severely injured, but it reminds me of the team concept of the military. i've been talking to the president for months about the war on terror. and every time i would bring up the topic, he would tell me without any hesitation, i'm going to get that blank guy. and i can't use the word on television, but the president's been determined for a very long time to bring baghdadi to justice. and i want to compliment him and his team for bringing about a result that i think is a game changer in the war on terror. the war is by no means over. the caliphate is dead and the leader of the caliphate is dead. and that's a big deal. when bip lauden was killed, that was a big deal and i complime complimented president obama. that was a big decision he made. what the president did last

night was a hard call. these things are not predetermined to go well and it just tells you how good our people are and what the president said today was very reassuring to me that when it comes to isis and other terrorist groups, we're coming after you. wherever you go, as long as it takes to protect our country, our way of life. i just end on this. isis is a depraved organization that's ever existed in the history of the world. they are religious nazis. they cannot be accommodated. they cannot be negotiated with. they have to be destroyed and marginalized. and here's the good news for all of us. very few people over there buy into what these crazy people are selling. and it will always be in our interest, i believe, to partner with people over there who are

on the front lines to make sure that isis types never come here. and it will replace this ideology with something more sustainable. to the american people, this has been a long, difficult war. i understand what the president wants to do. he wants to reduce our footprint and lower our cost. and he's right to want to do that. but i'm very encouraged by what i see in syria. maybe a new strategy that focuses on building up the lives of people in the region, having a small footprint of americans led by the local populations, and securing the oil is a really smart idea, quite frankly. that's how isis survived for so long. if you can take syrian oil out of the hands of isis, iran and other enemies and put it into the hands of the kurds and people who fought and died along our side, then that's a transformational event in the

iraq/syrian theater. and what i see developing in syria is very promising. >> senator graham -- >> you just said the war is by no means over. do you think that the president understands that, and also do you think that the u.s. could have pulled off this operation without the troop presence that the u.s. has had in syria for some time now? and are you concerned still about the withdrawal of most of those troops from syria? >> well, when it comes to what's happening in syria, i like what i see. we've had a -- the president's position and our -- my position is really not that far off. we really don't need a bunch of americans in the safe zone. the international community should do that. but some american forces deployed with the sdf to make insure the oil does not fall back into the hands of isis and iran is not the biggest winner makes a lot of sense. when it comes to terrorism, the president changed the rules of

engagement. you think the caliphate destroyed itself? he made a conscious decision when he went to iraq to change the game when it came to destroying isis. he had a determination to destroy the caliphate unlike anybody i've ever met. now the question is how to keep it down. i think we've got a plan now to keep it down. that meets his national security objectives of reducing our footprint and having others do more. >> -- and i want to lay these out separately. the president in his remarks mentioned turkey's cooperation when it came to this operation. i'm wondering if that changes your view on sanctions. also, the president called you, we understand he did not call other members of the gang of eight, even after the operation was complete. is that a mistake? >> i don't know who -- he's calling family members right now. i was in town, so i was right down the street. >> did you say he called family members?

>> he's calling some family members now who have been victims of isis. >> the foleys? >> i guess what i would say is that what i see happening in syria makes sense to me. that the president destroyed the caliphate. he's asking others to do more and he's right when it comes to turkey. i think the invasion has been disrupted. about at the end of the day, if we can continue to partner with the kurds, secure the oil revenues for their sake, not iran's sake, not for isis' sake, help pay the costs of the operations makes imminent sense to me. i think the president is right to say that the conflict between syrian kurds and turkey needs to be resolved. the safe zone needs to be occupied by forces other than the united states. i agree with that. >> senator graham, it's no secret the president wanted to pull out of syria last year. without our troop presence there, would an operation like this have been possible? >> you could probably have done this from iraq, to be honest

with you. i don't know exactly the details of the operation. but i think the president is focusing on the resources that made isis so strong for so long. the caliphate was funded basically by many sources of revenue, but one of the chief sources of revenue was syrian oil. so if you take that off the table, the terrorists in the region in the world are hurt and iran containment makes sense. the iranians would love to get this oil. the russians have shown some desire to go down here and i can't say this now, but i was in the situation room and i'll talk to you later. the president made some firm statements to people in the region that you come into this area at your own peril. >> senator, you very recently said you thought the president's decision to withdraw could be the biggest mistake of his presidency. today you're affirming it as a positive one. >> what i'm saying today is that the killing of baghdadi is a game changer in the war on

terror. doesn't mean the war is over. the president's determination over time has paid off. we don't give him enough credit for destroying the caliphate. he did this in months, not years because he changed the rules of engagement. so what i want to talk about today is those brave men and women who planned the operation who went in on the ground and killed him. >> is it appropriate for the president only to inform republicans of this operation -- >> i don't know. that's not my concern today. my concern today is that we did a good thing. >> second on the oil, how -- by what warrant or legal right in international law does the united states take the oil of a sovereign nation of syria? >> what you don't understand is that these oil fields are in areas where there's sdf operates. this was the chief source of

revenue from a long time for isis. it is now in the hands of the syrian democratic forces which are arab and kurds. mostly kurds, with a partnership with the united states. so, no, this doesn't violate any law in my view. what it does is just good common sense foreign policy. i want to congratulate the president for making sure that the oil revenues never fall into the hands of the bad guys and the way you secure this, this is a win-win. the sdf will get more money if we can modernize the oil fields. we're not going over there to enrich america. we're over there to help our allies, deny our enemy resources that will allow them to get stronger over time and finally, and this is okay, to lower the cost to us. the president mentioned something. i had a bill that would make our aid to iraq alone that could be forgiven but also paid back over time. here's the one thing that's been missing in the middle east. skin in the game. if we had made our aid to iraq

alone, they would have probably acted differently than if it's just a grant. now the sdf, who had been good partners, have a chance with our help to increase revenue for the benefit of their people. they'll have more incentive to fight harder. everything changes when the people you are fighting with have skin in the game. and i want to compliment the president for coming up with the model in syria that we probably should have done in iraq. this is a game-changer with the killing of baghdadi. this is a moment where we should all be proud of our american military and our intelligence community. this is a moment where president trump's worst critics should say, well done, mr. president. >> senator graham -- >> senator, thank you. >> there you go. lindsey graham basically said we did a good thing, giving the president an incredible amount of credit in the decision that he made saturday night to kill abu bakr al baghdadi. joining me now is colonel lawrence wilkerson, former chief

of staff to secretary of state colon powell. thank you for joining me. i want to get your reaction over the last hour and a half or so hearing first from the president and then senator lindsey graham. >> well, i hate to rain on the parade of geography, but i'm 75 years old. i've seen three presidents embroiled in impeachment. what i saw was the shadow of impeachment. what i saw in the foreground was a president trying to use this spectacular success, not by the president, but by those delta forces on the ground, pilots, soldiers and everything, to essentially show himself as a very pragmatic, very practical, very detail oriented, very capable commander in chief and president. so that's the way i see it. he's using this, lindsey graham, the same thing, i know lindsey well. he's using this to kind of tenuate some of the pressure around him with regard to impeachment.

significant pressure, in my mind. >> i want to bring up a tweet the president made about then-president obama after the killing of osama bin laden. he says president obama cannot take credit for the killing of osama bin laden. do you feel he's doing that here despite the fact he said that then? >> i think president trump has a real psychological hang-up with president obama. and trying to outdo him in everything that he possibly did or undo whatever he did. and i'm not singing president obama's praises. i'm just saying that that is a debilitating factor for this president. sometimes it works out as with this incident and sometimes it doesn't. sometimes it looks very dangerous. like with the nuclear agreement with iran. let's look at the region right now. lindsey graham is standing up there talking about how everything is so, so wonderful. iraq is falling apart. we had 2,000 casualties over the last week. over 130 people killed.

egypt, i have students in cairo who tell me that they're getting ready to do another tahriri square against sisi. look at the area between turkey and syria. look at iran. look at casualty. i look for more. this is not a region that's peaceful. this is a region that's getting ready to explode yet again. >> this is something that the senator knew two weeks ago when he came out against the policy that the president had. when being asked about that policy saying i like what i see what's happening in syria. >> absolutely. >> he's doing everything he can to help the president fight off this pressure of impeachment. >> what do you make of the

mention of oil sales. >> oil sales of isis many time retrieved in the past. they had to fracture that revenue and go for other things. i will say .2% of the world's oil reserves are in syria. what are we talking about here? we are not talking about the millions of barrels in iraq or still in saudi arabia or iran. this is another manufacture reason. the real reason the pentagon talked to the president and not continuing to withdraw and leaving u.s. forces there is their position to keeping it from gaining a foot hole in syria. there are position that keeps assad honest with regard to his deal for autonomy for the kurds and we sort of abandon.

i understand this strategic region. >> did this administration choose this oil field over the lives of our kurdish ally? >> i don't think so. it happens to link up. the kurds are in the best position where they turn their oil revenues with baghdad's opposition. they turned it into a good economy in northern iraq. now that i are taking on millions of kurdish refugees in syria. they'll be stabilized, too. getting these refugees back in northern syria and a deal for some sort of economy from assad and damascus and relaxation from erdogan and letting them get their revenues in in order. they can be the best protection for this little bit of oil which

is in syria. we would not have abandoned them completely. >> i want to bring in right now our chief white house correspondent halie jackson who was in the room with senate erlin e er lindsey graham. he's taking a bunch of stuff this morning. pretty unprecedent on a day like today. >> senator graham says a few things that's notable. what the president is doing is making calls to family members of victims of isis. we have seen a statement already this morning, the president brought up that family in his remarks earlier this morning. that appears to be what the president is doing. senator graham is the fiercest critics of the president. he's close to president trump

professionally and personally as well. that's indicative of the feedback that he wfact that he was one of the very few calls as the senator says. the senator says he's encouraged by what he sees and what he sees as it relates to where u.s. policy is going on syria. he's moving in this direction more and more with the past four or five days. the white house makes -- talking through their strategies if you will when it comes to this region. graham seems to want to make sure that the president gets what graham perceives as the praise he's not getting. the senator says everyon the president's worst critic today should say a job well done. members of press core here. as for the politics of this. extremely unusual to see a senator briefed from this podium.

i can't remember it happening when i cover the trump administrati administration. we see lawmakers outside in front of the west wing still at the white house when they're coming for the meeting. it is pouring rain outside. there is no roof over hang where they normally stands. that may have something to do with the senator's decision to come out in the briefing room closed door. he was asked twice by myself and one of my colleagues here from abc news of the idea that president trump we know based from his reporting. house speaker pelosi who got no courtesy call even the moment when president trump came out to deliver remarks to the people. senator graham wants to keep the focus on the forces who conducted this operation which he describes as trump's smart

and strategic decision to take out al baghdadi. i do think the politics piece of this is something that'll bubble up more and more. the gang of eight, top leaders on capitol hill, top lawmakers who are brought in on sensitive and classified information have a long history of knowing and handling understanding how to use classified information. i do think that's a question that is repeated as this story continues to develop. >> congression he >> so much news this morning so far on this sunday. so much ahead, thank you halie jackson and everybody standing by. we'll have much for coming up. we'll be right back. p. we'll be right back.

do you have the coverage you need? annual enrollment ends december 7th. now's the time to get on a path where you can take advantage of all the benefits of an aarp medicare advantage plan from unitedhealthcare. call today to learn more. these medicare advantage plans can combine your hospital and doctor coverage... with part d prescription drug coverage, and extra benefits... all in one plan...

for a low monthly premium, or in some areas no plan premium at all. and you'll get more for your medicare dollar. take advantage of $0 copays for primary doctor visits... free preventive dental care and an eye exam. plus, earn rewards for completing preventive care activities, like flu shots and annual physicals. and with renew active, enjoy a free gym membership and up to $115 in rewards for staying active. so call unitedhealthcare today... or go online to learn more... about the only plans with the aarp name. also, ask about our ppo plans that let you see any doctor who accepts medicare, without a referral. and take advantage of in-network costs, at home or traveling, when you see doctors in the unitedhealthcare medicare national network. as a plan member, you could get over $150 for free health and wellness products. and have $0 copays on the most common prescriptions. in fact,

members saved an average of over $6,500 last year. good news for anyone's budget. through it all, count on our over 40 years of medicare experience, to guide and support you, and help you get the most out of your plan. annual enrollment ends december 7th. let's get you on the right path. call unitedhealthcare today or go online to enroll, and take advantage of our choice of plans, like aarp medicare advantage. [sfx: mnemonic]

abu bakr al-baghdadi is dead. our commitment to enduring the enduring and total defeat of isis and other terrorist organizations. >> good morning and welcome back everybody. i am in for joy reid. donald trump announced moments ago that the leader of isis, abu bakr al-baghdadi killed last night in northwestern syria. two u.s. officials telling nbc news that the u.s. targeted isis last night. abu bakr al-baghdadi was chased to the end of the tunnel before detonated. donald trump says this should send a message to other tourists. terrorists. terrorists who murdered other people should not sleep sound

li ly knowing that we'll completely destroy them. they'll not escape the final judgment of god. baghdadi, the losers, the losers they are, they had no idea what they are getting into. in some cases they were very frighten puppies and other cases they were hard-core killers. >> joining me now is hans nichols. i want to reset what we heard. senator lindsey graham is unprecedented. take us through from some of your take away so far. >> we heard a lot of tactical and operational details on the

overall strategy and his view of what the middle east is going to look like from this day forward. they blend together there and you see the language the president was using. he describes these defeated terrorists as dogs. it was clear he want to insult them now that they have been eliminated from the battlefield. that's to make it clear that isis is being defeated and they want to give the impression that isis is on the run. of course the last two three weeks is a great deal of chaos for the middle east for the president of abrupt decisions pulling out those troops from the border. the president indicating he wants to keep a couple hundred to protect the oil fields potentially for exploitation of american companies like exxon. the president announcing a new reason to be in the middle east and that's to extract oil. now in terms of senator lindsey

graham. it is not uncommon to have senators after they have been here to brief us afterwards. it is unusual to do it from the podium room. that was unusual. i think one operational details that we got, they collected and captured live isis fighter and they're in u.s. custody. the challenge now and the urgent task for military officials in the region and special operators is to exploit that intelligence, you heard the president it was the intelligence agency as well. other government agencies code for the cia played a crucial and a role in both planning and executing this operation. >> talk about how incredible it was. this was my impression of the fact that the president tried to say the killing of abu bakr al-baghdadi was a bigger deal than osama bin laden. when i speak to some of my sources, they were telling me this does not out do the killing of osama bin laden.

he was still a bigger deal than abu bakr al-baghdadi. you have the president standing up there saying no, that's not the case. >> well, both were the leading terrorist operatives and leaders of their time. osama bin laden directed attack on american soils and there had been isis casualties around the world in berlin or the south of france or paris. there had been isis casualties around the time. there is really the idea that isis is the current threat. that pretty much accepted throughout the intelligence committee. as to who is a bigger scalp, i am not in a position to adjudicate that here. it is clear that the president had a goal on this. when obama announced the killing of osama bin laden that the president then, private citizen trump was critical to say it was

the navy seal did it. today this president is trying to claim credit. is it possible that the president may revealed some classified information when he went into incredible detailed talking about decisions he observed on saturday night. >> i think it is another line of reporting. procedures were revealed by the president giving such details on how they went in. that's going to require another couple hours of reporting. technically can't break the law. he's the president and he can declassify anything. >> as he always do. thank you, hans. joining me now, former chief of staff, colonel wilkinson. we appreciate you hanging with us. i want to talk to and we didn't

get to this earlier, the killing of abu bakr al-baghdadi and his history with isis beginning with his detention on any u.s. facilities in 2004. >> starting with abu bakr al-baghdadi, the beginner of isis and the insurgency in iraq and syria for that matter. they're two important people to take out. the most powerful and growing more powerful daily, terrorist groups of the global capabilities is in yemen. and right now president trump's policy with regards to the war of yemen continues to support saudi arabia in that war. a huge humanitarian disaster, aiding and abetting al-qaida grows back into the institution that could in fact bring its power to bear on the united

states. to celebrate on one side of the coin and have this happening to the other to me is disingenuous, it is fooling the american people because his action is not abetting. the new leader of al-qaida is five times strategically smarter than baghdadi. al-qaeda has shown it has great patience. >> i want to get to saudi and yemen because it is an interesting topic. something incredibly important that we need to cover. i want to stick with baghdadi and how he was radicalized. he was radicalized before he was apprehended. from what i understand he was first apprehended because they were after his brother-in-law in the area and he brought in and subsequently released because they felt he was not a threat. in fact, there are people that argued that he was radicalized

in that u.s. detention center in iraq. >> that's a good point. it would not surprise me. he was there almost a year and there was a great intelligence stuff if you will, looms very large that we let him go. accidentally we did that with quite a few people. al-qaida and other people where we just messed up and because of the torture program largely we didn't really go after people in a solid methodical way and determine whether or not they were future threats. we let a lot of threats go. we let some go from guantánamo, too. yes, you got a point there. >> now you think about the current policy and what took place with regards to syria and turkey and pulling troops out of northeast syria and reporting

that we have done across the board of the last couple of weeks which isis prisoners have subsequently escaped or been released. who is to say these isis prisoner despite the fact that now the leader of abu bakr al-baghdadi had been killed. who to say it is more in doctrine and more radicalize and filling the leadership of the void that baghdadi have left. >> i don't know what the percentages it is. but, i think the bulk of them were there because al baghdadi was a smart guy when it came to working there incentives. he gave them life and meals and weapons. he set up a state. he literally set up a state and these people came to it and found they had better chances

for the future and their own lives in his state and elsewhere. and so i think a lot of these people are going to try to fade back. you are right about the course. the course is still there just like it is there and growing in yemen with regards to al-qaida. you never defeat terrorism. the best you can do is manage it and bring it down to a level where it is not impacting you significantly and regularly. you will never defeat terrorism or drugs or terrorism. telling the american people that you defeated it is a little dangerous. >> i want you to expand on that. the president reiterated this morning that 100% that the caliphate has been completely owe ball obliterated. >> well, he's right when he said

caliphate. but, in terms of the diaspora of isis if you will. they're in nigeria, they're in pakistan and everywhere they can recruit. so it is not like the right thing to be telling the american people that we no longer have any fear from isis. i do fear al-qaeda more than isis. >> look at what's happening in lebanon right now? hezbollah becoming a significant part of that government. now you have the leader of hezbollah out in the streets telling people to calm down. you have riots and protests in lebanon and you got them in egypt and iraq. i am with the president in terms of getting u.s. forces out of the region because every soldier has a red bull on their back for every terrorist in the region.

this is a volatile region that's falling apart largely because of our strategic mistake of invading iraq in 2002. >> i quickly i want to ask before i let you go. it is a pleasure to talk to you in this instances. this is a big question so i am not quite sure you are prepared to answer. with your years of service, you are. what needs to be done? >> i think we need to use the russians, the syrians and the turks and the iraqis themselves so we can use them, too. they're the strongest and deepest strategic power in the region. we need to have an approach model with a lot of these people, we need to have exquisite diplomacy. we need something that lasts and resilient and act for us. much of the way we did with the

sh shock for 25 years, only this time without a major u.s. president in the region. that's the difficult thing to do. now we have u.s. forces all over that region. kuwait and saudi arabia and qatar, they're everywhere. getting out is going to be extremely difficult. colonel wilkerson. i want to go now to emily evel farkus, so much is happening. i want to get your raw reaction to what we heard so far this morning. >> yasmin, first of all, this was a great operation, a success by all accounts, special operation forces should be commended. so i don't want to take away from that success. i am uncomfortable that the president revealing a lot about the operational details.

the special op has to do this over and over again. the less we say about the operational details, the better. i am uncomfortable about this but it is what it is. i reminded me when i was on the service arm service staff, and the bush administration took off the head of al-qaida in iraq. i am going back in history. that guy was replaced by abu bakr al-baghdadi. it is not the first time we gone after a big guy in the terrorism world, beheader and taken him out to only see him replaced. the most important thing and the colonel got into this before. the situation in the middle east is messier because of president trump's withdrawal. this operation may have taken place anyway, we have more enemies. the kurds are angry because they

think we betray them for oil because of the things that the president said. we don't have a real safe zone yet with them. we could start a safe zone before the president made the decision basically capitulating with turkey and russia about withdrawing. we are in a worse situation even the operation itself was a success. >> it is interesting that you bring up oil. it has been a consistent theme over the last two hours or so. one of the criticisms of u.s. foreign policy in the middle east historically beyond that is the american's interests in oil. the reasons they are there is not for democracy or national security. it is not for safety of the people in that region for providing organization and leadership but it is for money. it is for oil. this is not my view. this is the criticism of u.s. foreign policy in that region historically and we can go back a long time if we want to talk

about this. the president now being forthcoming about the u.s. interests there and what he's choosing to protect over the lives of the kurds. senate erlor lindsey graham reenforcing the president, what dow make do you make of this? >> we want to secure the oils so the terrorists don't get their ha hands-on it. it is a leverage point. it is a leverage point that we had before the president says we are going to withdraw. we are correcting the stakes a week or so ago. it is his own era that he's trying to basically address and we are not trying to secure the oil for america and americans, that's illegal by all account. we were not trying to do that also in the 2003 war or the golf war in 1991. america's enemies have always

said and skeptical people have always said, i understand the argument that we were always going after oil. we had other objectives largely in mind and all of those cases and also in this case. that does not matter. the president does not complete the thought. the kurds think we are using them for our own economic interests and that's hopefully not correct for choosing oil over them. >> evelin farkas. thank you. >> joining me now, matthew. good morning. thanks for joining us. your thoughts on what's happening so far, mehdi hasan. >> we don't live in a perfect world and bringing him to justice was never realistic. he was always going to die in this way in some sort of fire fight. i don't think anyone is shedding a tear of his departure from

this world. put aside a moment of the future of isis, i am not sure if this is a game changer senator graham is suggesting this morning. i try not to speak as a muslim for many reasons because i don't speak for muslims and nobody does. let me say this and make an exception this morning. of every muslim i know and every muslim i have come across around the world watching this, good riddance to abu bakr al-baghdadi. here is a man who's primary victim of muslims and came known to the world -- good riddance to him. the world is a better place for muslims without him on it. this is a man who personally, he did not just oversees crucifixions in the burning of prisons. he personally murdered people, he personally raped repeatedly

american hostages. yes, good riddance to him. good riddance to this piece of human scum. >> and you know it is interesting how you brought that up. he did stick with names of individuals died at the hands of isis and abu bakr al-baghdadi or his direction. he mentioned james foley and he mentioned the christians. the president did not mention the muslims. it is interesting. it is good that you brought that up. millions of muslims did die in the hands of isis in that region. what does it mean right now for the stability of region considering all the players that we have heard from and we have taken some portion of credit for the killing of abu bakr al-baghdadi and the void that's been left to be filled lby countries like russia. >> the issue with isis and

baghdadi right now is we don't know how it is going to may out. evelin, your former guest mentioned the founder of isis of al-qaida in europe. he was assassinated during the bush's administration in 2006. on my way on the studio, i lo looked up what bush did during the time. 13 years later, we are still fighting on the war in terror. there is a worry now that you may see a merger between isis and al-qaida. these two groups had been in each other's throats since 2013 and 2014. we don't know how it is going to fly out. they say when a terrorist leader is killed, it could setback a group over the long-term. in the long-term, it could make the group more deadly as they plan a revenge attack.

my worry is that we take out these terrorist leaders and good riddance to them as i said, we don't deal of the under lining conditions, the political conditions that creates these vacuums and the rise of such groups, we don't deal with the ideology and we allow political leaders whether it is trump or obama or bush to come out and make these statements. we think it is a big deal and we carry on as business as usual. >> this is the cushion. this should be happening you know when we have a nine-hour show to do. how do you deal with the anol y ideology. he already been equalized that isis had already been weaken to the point where which he could not do as much harm as he once did. >> killing baghdadi has those

strategic. he was the first terrorist leader. eight million people living with its border and he declared himself to ckalif and killing hm is a big deal. in terms of the big picture of terrorism and safety of people and security here in the united states and the region. donald trump is not the man who fights for ideology. donald trump is a pig in isis' recruitment video. donald trump is a recruiting sergeant. the fact he killed abu bakr al-baghdadi does not change the fact that thanks to him and his rhetoric and his whole idea and muslim ban which suggests that the united states in a war with is sl

islam. he's being a great boost i would argue for isis regardless of what terrorist leaders he's taken off the battlefield. just a couple of weenks ago, a hundred isis fighters escaped from prison which he did not mention this morning in his press conference. >> he doubled down on that decision this morning. mehdi hasan, thank you very much. coming up next, much more on this morning's breaking news, stay with us. 3w4r57 g news, stay with us 3w4r57 liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,

so you only pay for what you need.

i wish i could shake your hand. granted. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

welcome back, we are still watching the big story this morning. a u.s. raid killed abu bakr al-baghdadi in syria. another breaking news that's been happening. tens of thousands of people have been ordered to evacuate as wildfires continued to rage in different parts of california. millions facing blackouts as electric shut offs power. also, outside of dallas over night, two people are dead, 16 others injured in a shooting at a texas a&m off campus party. police say the shooter remains at large there. former white house chief of staff, john kelly, says he

warned donald trump hiring a quote "yes man" to replace him is a huge mistake. we'll have much more after this break. we'll be right back. s break. we'll be right back. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com this fall, book two, separate qualifying stays at choicehotels.com... ...and earn a free night. because when your business is rewarding yourself, our business is you. book direct at choicehotels.com [phone ringing] how are we doing? fabulous. ♪

i wonder how the firm's doing without its fearless leader. ♪ you sure you want to leave that all behind? yeah. stay restless, with the icon that does the same. the new rx crafted by lexus. lease the 2020 rx 350 all wheel drive for $439/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. was in an accident. when i called usaa, it was that voice asking me, "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. we're the rivera family and we plan to be with usaa for life. see how much you can save with usaa insurance. see how much you can save if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, every day can begin with flakes. it's a reminder of your struggles with psoriasis. but what if your psoriasis symptoms didn't follow you around? that's why there's ilumya. with just 2 doses, a majority of people were clear or almost clear. and over time, even more people were clear or almost clear.

all with dosing 4 times a year... after 2 initial doses. plus, ilumya was shown to have similar risks of infections compared to placebo. don't use if you are allergic to ilumya or any of its ingredients. before starting treatment, your doctor should check for tuberculosis and infections. after checking there is no need for routine lab monitoring unless your doctor advises it. ilumya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms, or if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. this could be your chance to leave your psoriasis symptoms behind. ask your doctor for ilumya today, for a clearer tomorrow. frustrated that everyday activities cause wrinkles and there's nothing you can do about it? now there's a solution! downy wrinkleguard is a fabric conditioner that helps protect you from wrinkles all day. just pour the dye free liquid into the rinse dispenser. after a day of wear, pants washed with downy wrinkleguard and detergent are virtually wrinkle free. it even comes unscented. if you don't love downy wrinkleguard,

we'll give you your money back. we are still in the process of trying to find someone taking my place. i said whatever you do, don't hire a yes man, some of it will not tell you the truth. if you do, i believe you will be impeached.

>> some frank talk there. john kelly says he saw donald trump's impeachment coming. trump says that conversation never happened and white house secretary stephanie gresham says this. "i worked with john kelly and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great president." what a statement there. >> joining me now our danny cevallos and dion green.

>> to know that donald trump does not listen to anybody. the fact that trump never takes advice from anyone. the only people that had some sway over him are ivanka, jared and stephen miller. that's a given. that's a reason why he's a terrible president is because he does not take advice. he has all the answers and does not take counsel. i think it is self serving for john kelly to say, you know, his departu departure ushers an apocalypse for trump. it is not like john kelly restrain him from doing wrong things. a week after john kelly got the job, you may recall trump sat at

bedminster saying he's going to unleash fire and furry in north korea. the other thing that you see here is the white house going into this sort of a great leader mode. this sort of mode any time, anyone criticizes trump, you see people like stephanie grisham saying they don't appreciate his great genius. stay out of public view, there is no middle ground around that if you are going to survive the trump white house. >> the yes man. that's a conversation that's something we have been saying about the president for quite some time as people have dropped off. they have all wanted to, they have subsequently dropped off by a void to be filled by these yeme yes men. it seems like john kelly was not

one of those individuals, mick mulvaney very much it seems one of those individuals. is he one of the reasons why he's in so much hot water right now especially with ukraine and the 25th phone call with zelensky. >> kelly did not restrain trump that much and trump listens to whom he wants to. that's why he want to fire a lot of people. he gets rid of a lot of people. and yes, mulvaney has been much more of a yes man. we saw the cause today. the killing of baghdadi is a big deal. it does not revolutionize the middle east. it would be a good day for him. he could not do that. he apparently had no one in there telling him no. don't politicize and don't trash

pelosi or implying that which is why -- don't be grudging with intelligence services. he could not help himself. when he says wow, they did a good job here. they wasted their time on other things. the other things clearly being russia and so yeah, he need needs -- speaking of russia, he kept on praising russia more than he praised the kurds. >> it was the first question he praised and the kurds were the last. >> it underscores how bad his policy is in syria. he sure needs people other than yes men but he don't won't listen to them anyway. >> history provides that kelly is right. the modern chief of staff essentially began with nixon's administration. throughout and since then independent free thinking chiefs

of staff may be fits the model of s.o.b.s. folks who are independent thinkers and not milk toasts. people who are free and enable to go into the white house and into the president and tell him that he's wrong. >> john kelly never said that or never said anything like that. if he would have said that, i would have thrown him out of office. he just wants to come back office like everyone else does. >> it proves john kelly's point. if he told him that, he would throw him out of the office and not heed his warning is what john kelly is saying here. what i find most interesting about what john kelly is saying is he's essentially saying that make sure that you get better

babysitter when i leave. when he know trump needs to be managed and people know that. >> that's not something the president wants. >> exactly. what i think is interesting and dangerous of what john kelly is saying about the president which we have all seen. he does it in plain site. the president of the united states is impulsive and does not take advice and does not listen to his trusted advisors. it is why you see this revolving door coming out of the white house and why the white house is essentially a testimomp agency. if you have character and integrity. it is difficult for you to stand in that white house. it really is. >> i don't think this is, there are of course politics and ideology. every good organization whether it is a company or a family or a lighthouse or the federal government who are good management principles about how you leave people and in the

necessity to have good advice of multiple people, you take on board so you make good decisions. that's just the way the world works. that's again why this president's unique problem. >> yes, trump could use somebody who was not a yes man. the people who are missing out and restraining him are the american people. there are things that the president should not do that he had the tendency to do. every once in a while somebody inside the administration may stop him. maybe secretary mattis stopped him in certain areas or other people did. that was a service to the country. now we don't even have people like that. >> sharing classified information and talking about the killing of abu bakr al-baghdadi. i want to talk about john bolton. i want to bring this up because

he seems integral to the impeachment process. the possibility that he could feasibly provide testimony when and if that actually happens. how important is it for someone like john bolton to fill in the blanks here. do we think that's something going to happen considering the executive privilege that's claimed by so many individuals up to this point even down to fruman who we talked about on friday. >> i think he's going to provide some interesting information if he does do it. he's someone who was part of donald trump's inner circle. he's someone who was there when certain decisions were being made with respect to foreign policy and so on and so forth. what i think is very interesting here is that john bolton like john kelly no longer in the administration. now you see people who are in the administration starting to kind of give little bits of information with respect to what was going on behind the curtain

during this administration. it is frustrating because i think as americans we would want to know those things in realtime. and so you see a lot of people who have left the administration and who now all of a sudden out spoken. >> you have to wonder because they see a president in a weaken state and now they feel they can start this. >> right. what's interesting is i would argue that the president is always imparrale. we are ones who are faced with consequences when we have a president who's not upholding the constitution. >> i wish we could keep talking, guys. >> ej dion and timothy l.

o'brien. thank you everybody. [thunder crashing] oo! my mower! hm, well thatone chore i can cross off my list! ah, ah, ah! (burke) seen it, covered it. at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. (bert) mmm. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ nyquifor your worst cold andrful relieflu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. nyquil severe. the nightime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine.

osama bin laden was a big thing but this was the biggest there is. this is the worst ever.

osama bin laden became big with the world trade center. this is as man who built the whole country as he would like to call it. >> donald trump announced abu bakr al-baghdadi is dead killed last night. trump spoke more than 45 minutes, taking questions and describing the raid in unpr unprecedent unprecedented details. >> joining me now courtney kube. thanks for coming back, i know we had a glitch the last hour, i appreciate you sticking by with us. let's talk about the latest development of the killing of abu bakr al-baghdadi. >> as you mention, there are a lot more details how the mission went down from president trump and some of his close officials, vice president pence and secretary of defense who had been out on the sunday's show

already giving more details. we know now there were eight helicopters that were apart of this raid. they went in and took syria's fire on the ground with the raid. we know baghdadi went into a tunnel. it is not surprising that isis had a series of tunnel systems all over the world. he went into the tunnels and detonated the suicide vest. we know that u.s. military was able to gather a significant amount of dna according to president trump and they were able to test that and quickly they were able to know that it was baghdadi. they knew early this morning and it was baghdadi. one of this they thinks that i was struck by in president trump's remarks today when he talks specifically about what happened after the part of the raid is over. when they go in and gather up

intelligence. let's listen to what president trump said about that. >> there were something really amazing to see. i got to watch it along with general millie and vice president pence and others in the situation room and we watched it so clearly. >> how did you watch it? >> i don't want to say how. as though you were watching a movie. >> there was actually another time where president trump spoke about the raid where he talks about the site exploitation and how they were able to gather sensitive information from the site. information that the u.s. was going to use. this is a sensitive piece of information out of military raids. you will often hear when the u.s. military is involved in a raid or someone lower level, they'll not confirm who it is they are going after or may have captured or killed if they have

gathered intelligence on the site. that's because they want to be able to act on that quickly. president trump putting out this information today is surprising and it is the kind of thing that military leaders would often, if a journalist did it, accuse us of an operational violation. >> and he said that delta forces stayed for over two hours combing through what they had, and astounding to say the least in so much detail provided by the president in that 45 minutes in regard to the raid. and i wanted you the touch on the involvement of the delta force in comparison to the navy s.e.a.l. s, and the storming of islamabad, and that was navy s.e.a.l.s, but here, a couple of hours ago on a different program that it was delta force here that was at the forefront of this raid. why in fact was it delta force? >> so, it is generally up to the

jsoc commander or the general over the operation to make na decision. the military guys would have a fit for me saying that, but they have a similar capability, and the difference is that the navy s.e.a.l.s are the navy and the delta force falls under the army, but they tend to have a similar capability. you can see here that so far the bits and pieces of what happened on that compound in northwestern syria, it is similar in a lot of ways to what we heard about the islamabad compound with osama bin laden and coming in with the stealth helicopters and repelling in for a raid that people were going in to create a perimeter around it for the raid, and all of that is done with the navy s.e.a.l.s, but we are told that the actual commandos in the raid were delta force. >> thank you for reporting, my friend. i am joined with the author of "how the catch a russian spy"

and thank you for sticking with us. i want to refer to a tweet six or seven minutes ago and it is unclear how much operational extent al baghdadi had for isis or others? >> what we are hearing from the counter intelligence officials here is that it is unclear if baghdadi was dealing with the day-to-day and not just a figurehead. we know from al qaeda and the first rule of terrorism is to decentralize. so we know that there is a successor named for baghdadi and isis anticipated his demise and it is unclear if he was hiding how much control he had over the operational and the day-to-day planning of isis. >> we have not confirmed the identification of the successor of al baghdadi, but is this something they do that within the organizations like isis and organizations like al qaeda, they have people waiting in the

wings to fill a void if in fact the leader is killed? >> absolutely. they are currently taking a beating and lost the idea of the caliphate, and certainly up against the ropes, but it does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that they are completely off of the battlefield and making complete sense to know that they have a successor, and to speak to the regional intelligence officials who have working knowledge or who are in the area, and they tell us, in fact, that there is a successor, and they feel that isis is far from defeated. >> i talked about this with colonel wilkerson and i wanted you to touch on it as well, but you are thinking of the path that baghdadi took in 2004 when he was captured and improzsonned in the u.s. detention center is when in fact many say that he was radicalized and then subsequently became the leader of isis after a decade or so after that. and you think about that and comparing it to the many

prisoners who were escaped or released in the most recent decision in northeast syria for the decision of the troops to be pulled out of the decision and the concern of those isis followers and where they are headed and what their intentions are, and are you concerned about that? is there a leadership in place for that them, and are these individuals who could have easily been more radicalize and reenergized in the u.s. detention? >> well, they are radicalized to begin with, and you right about the detention in guantanamo bay where we have prisoners for life. there is a fair question moral and legal one, do we lease the people. in this case we did, and you see what happened. so when you have isis prisoners a wise move to let them enter back into circulation. what do they do? do they return back to terrorism, who do they fight for? we have heard reports that in some cases, they have gone into other groups. and it is without question, and

what we have learned whether it is gitmo or al qaeda or any other terrorism group the likelihood of recidivism is very, very high and that is warranting a discussion of what to do with these people permanently. >> this president has attacked his intelligence agencies and told the base not to believe what they have to say and especially if it is negative things about what this president's intentions are, and here today in fact, he praised his own intelligence agencies, because of the work they did, and with al baghdadi and his subsequent killing. what sort of things are you hearing from inside of the intelligence agencies with regards to their reaction in the killing of abu bakr al baghdadi. >> this is the counter intelligence agency who has been tracking him for quite some time, and jsoc who went in to get him, but make no mistake, it is an excellence operation to find him, detect him, and then carry out the operation that led

to his demise. >> thank you so much. always appreciate it, my friend. keep it on msnbc for the rest of the day to get the latest on today's headlines. we will be right back. k. ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro.

hey. ♪hey. you must be steven's phone. now you can take control of your home wifi and get a notification the instant

someone new joins your network... only with xfinity xfi. download the xfi app today. annoepidemic fueled by juul use with their kid-friendly flavors. san francisco voters stopped the sale of flavored e-cigarettes. but then juul, backed by big tobacco, wrote prop c to weaken e-cigarette protections. the san francisco chronicle reports prop c is an audacious overreach, threatening to overturn the ban on flavored products approved by voters. prop c means more kids vaping. that's a dangerous idea. vote no on juul. no on big tobacco. no on prop c. that is it for me today. thank you for watching me and my friend and colleague alex witt has updates on what is happening today. >> so much happening. and we will pick right up. good day to all of you.

it is high noon out here in the east, and 9:00 a.m. in the west. i'm alex witt, and breaking news, president trump makes a major announcement about the killing of the world's most wanted terrorist. this hour from the news to the news conference and what the president said and how he said it, and plus what lies ahead in the fight against isis after that deadly raid. all of it is coming your way next. we begin this hour with the breaking news confirmation from the president that a u.s. military operation in syria last night led to the death of abu bakr al baghdadi, the leader of isis. what you are seeing is the video of the scene today, and the site of the suspected isis safe house reduced to rubble by a u.s. air strike after these special forces operation. president trump says he watched much of the raid, and we will take a look at him in the situation room, and he provided a detailed account of how the isis leader died. >> last