east, and 9:00 a.m. in the west. i'm alex witt, and breaking news, president trump makes a major announcement about the killing of the world's most wanted terrorist. this hour from the news to the news conference and what the president said and how he said it, and plus what lies ahead in the fight against isis after that deadly raid. all of it is coming your way next. we begin this hour with the breaking news confirmation from the president that a u.s. military operation in syria last night led to the death of abu bakr al baghdadi, the leader of isis. what you are seeing is the video of the scene today, and the site of the suspected isis safe house reduced to rubble by a u.s. air strike after these special forces operation. president trump says he watched much of the raid, and we will take a look at him in the situation room, and he provided a detailed account of how the isis leader died. >> last night, the united states

brought the world's number one terrorist leader to justice. abu bakr al baghdadi is dead. he died after running into dead end tunnel, whimpering and crying and screaming all of the way. he reached the end of the tunnel as our dogs chased him down. he ignited his vest killing himself and three children. but test results gave certain immediate and totally positive identification. it was him. >> and this is where it happened in northwest syria and close to the border of turkey, and standing by to kick off the coverage we have nbc white house correspondent hans nichols, and foreign correspondent kim kube,

and also our foreign correspondent richard engel. what did you hear about this, hans? >> it is a terrorist leader who menaced the west so far and the president wanted to paint him as someone who is cowardly and w m whimpering and treated like a dog and even though it is an american dog who saw the final moments of al baghdadi, and this is the visceral descriptions and comments of what happened from the president. >> we had him under surveillance for a couple of weeks. we knew a little bit about where he was going, and where he was heading. we landed with eight helicopters, a large crew of brilliant fighters who ran out

of those helicopters and blew holes into the side of the building. there was something really amazing to see. i got to watch it along with general millie, vice president pence, others in the situation room. and we watched it so clearly. >> with cameras or how did you watch it? >> i don't want to say how, but perfect as if you were watching a movie. he was screaming, crying and whimpering, and he was scared out of his mind. >> so that is the president's depiction of the final moments of al baghdadi, and what is clear from the president is that he wanted to couch it in a broader strategic argument talking about how where and how u.s. forces are going to remain in syria and importantly to protect the oilfields. the president clearly articulating a policy and

continuing the line of withdrawal from the middle east and he doesn't see any use for the u.s. troops to be long of the syrian/turkish border. and i will tell you that the level of detail takes weeks if not months to come out and comes out in a classified after action reviews and the kinds of the documents that courtney will get her hands on, but it is remarkable from what we heard from the president. >> absolutely, hans. i am curious as you are listening to this, a sense that the president went off script at any point there? is that what you are alluding to with the exception of the q&a part, of course. >> i wouldn't say that, but i would say that generally, the entire, the script of the trump presidency is to go off script. the president calls the shots whether it is impeachment, and whether or not that is military operation, and he is trusting his own instincts, and throughout the administration, and regardless of the venue, and regardless of the subject, it is a president who likes to speak from the cuff.

it appeared he did have prompter for that, and a lot of the details that we got came out in the q&a which is four times as long as the official statement. guys. >> okay. hans nichols, thank you so much from the white house. appreciate that. and president trump in the address discussing the dangers that the u.s. special forces had faced in the mission as they targeted the leader of isis. take a listen. >> we were flying over very, very dangerous territory. in fact, some of our leaders said it could be the most dangerous time flying in and out, and that is why last night we were so quiet about it. >> and nbc foreign chief correspondent richard engel joining us from syria, and once again on sunday, you are very familiar with the area there, and give me a sense of how dangerous this mission was. >> well, there's different parts to the mission. and so one is the arrival,

right. so the president more or less said that the troops came from iraq. he kind of laid that out accidentally or not when he was describing how they were flying over the russian positions, and how long it took, and he said over an hour, and the only place they could have been coming from that they were briefly going into turkey, and the only place they could have been coming from according to the president's own description is iraq. so if they were coming from iraq, they would have had to fly over quite dangerous territories and he is not wrong about that. they would have had to fly over an active war zone with russian troops, syrian troops, and government fighters, and kurdish fighters and so that is a degree of danger. and then the infiltration itself, because the houses can be booby trapped and you can be rushed by suicide bombers and things can go wrong, and a helicopter can breakdown, and he

described it as a mission that was witnessed and witnessed by the people in the vision of the isis safehouse said that the helicopters came in, and started around 11:00 local time. in the cover of darkness. there were a lot of helicopters and they did not say eight, but the president did, and they said a lot of helicopters ap came in firing. they did not fire and circle overhead, and one witness said that the helicopters were so close that he could feel the wind from the chopper blades blowing into his home. they landed, they attacked several different targets in the village itself, and president trump described how the special operations forces breached through the walls so they would not go through doors. we have pictures from the ground sent by a cameraman that we know and trust who took pictures of holes in walls. so that description does seem

consistent. we don't know exactly what happened inside of the compound. the president described it in some detail. very few people obviously were inside of that compound. the isis leader, and some of his closeassociates and bodyguards and family members. and then the president described a dead end tunnel underneath the building and that abu bakr al baghdadi was inside of the tunnel and then detonated his vest, and we are not able to confirm that, because the location afterwards was destroyed. after the u.s. forces took body parts from the site, it was destroyed from the air, and so that is a very large hole in the ground is all that is left. we know that operation took place, and we have video of it, and the president says no american forces were killed, and we have the same confirmation of that from the villagers, and so

the account of the operation in broad terms does match the account that we are hearing from people who live in that town. but what we are still trying to figure out and everyone is trying to piece together is how did they find him? how did that elite unit of special operations forces aided by american intelligence and aided by lots of different people including the kurds here in northern syria and how did they track him down. and the kurd ish officials say they played a significant role and they have been tracking abu bakr al baghdadi in the same province for several months, and he had 50 different safehouse, and this is the first time that he had been at this particular safehouse, and the safehouses would be prepared in advance for him, and that he would move from one to the other to the other in the pocket of sea area which is right on the turkish border, and he went to this house however, and that is the last safehouse

that he was able to use, because in the cover of darkness, u.s. special operations forces dropped out of helicopters and found him and chased him down into the tunnel according to the president and he killed himself, but he met his end. >> thank you, richard. and a couple of questions about the description of the tunnels under the safehouses, and is that the norm of the safehouses that you know about or have seen in the aftermath, and also the significance of this very tumultuous region of northern syria, and the fact that he had made his way there, what does that signify to you? >> so, we were told by a kurdish official that the majority if not all of the safehouses that abu bakr al baghdadi had been prepared for in case he needed to fall back to them did have tunnel complexes and some of the tunnels were like the one that president trump described a dead end tunnel and hiding space, and

some of them had two ends to go into it, and come out another location and try to escape. it is not uncommon, and if you are remembering that ha dsaddam hussein was also found hiding in a tunnel. and so for the hideouts, that is not the first time that we would hear about a wanted leader and whether it is the president of iraq saddam hussein or abu bakr al baghdadi hiding in a bunker underneath. >> so thank you very much from syria, richard engel. one serious question, what does this do to isis moving forward. joining us is the white house senior director for counter terrorism, and i would say that you are quoted in the washington post saying that the death of al baghdadi would be a huge blow, but the killing of someone like osama bin laden, it will not lead to strategic defeat, and

what do you mean by that and categorize the distinction here. >> yes. first, alex, thank you for having me, and with respect to the clout, this is from the experience from the field, and the academic research, and what that has shown is that for decades in the annals of the modern counter terrorism and what we would call decapitation strikes against the terrorist leadership, when they have happened in the past, they almost never lead to the strategic defeat of an organization or the organizational collapse and even going back to the bin laden raid a decade ago to see the impact on al qaeda. it is not meaning that they are not important, and that we should not do them, but it means that they don't necessarily lead to the final resolution or final end state that some people hope that they could achieve. so i think that is what i was trying to convey in the particular report. >> and so maybe here is a point

about that. look, we know that american president has said that they have defeated 100% of the caliphate, but that is a physical loss, right? because it is different than the defeat of the isis ideology. >> absolutely. so the defeat of the physical caliphate in iraq and syria and isis is no longer controlling the territory the way they had from 2014 to 2017, and 2018. so as you mentioned, alex, the ideology still exists, and it is something to keep track of with the death of baghdadi, there are eight groups in the world who have officially used the isis name in their organizational sort of the title and a number of other loosely affiliated networks. so even with the death of baghdadi who is the sort of the avowed leader of this global enterprise at least up until today, there are groups to use isis in the name, and the loose networks and one thing that is

very hard to quantify is the sort of the embracing of the ideology with no for mamal affiliation to the group could be hundreds if not thousands around the world. >> and now, his death creates a void, but it is a void that can be filled. i mean, certainly the groups, they have one leader, but they have others who are coming right up behind, right? sure. that is one thing that we saw as isis was evolving over the past few years that it was a highly complex bureaucratic structured organization and part of it is because of the people who were in senior management positions, one or two levels below baghdadi were for the most part, they had decades or years of experience either in the iraq insurgency or in the former iraqi military or

intelligence service or the military intelligence services, and so these are people who know how the run large organizations, and sort of in the corporate planning in the business phrase, they would have developed a succession plan if any of the senior leaders were to die or were to be killed or captured. so my suspicion is that, that person has been picked and soon we may know who that person is, or some kind of the executive committee is meeting right now to basically choose that person. >> all of this comes amid the growing concerns and the potential resurgence of the president's decision to pull the troops from the syrian border, and so after baghdadi's death, do you believe there is still the concern that the resurgence in part because of the pullout of the u.s. troops still exists? >> sure. and again, the baghdadi death is hugely important, but when it

comes from the long-term threat from isis, this is why having the u.s. troops on the ground with the syrian democratic force forces as troops are pulling back and the sdf has already said they will not be able to continue counter terrorism missions when they are facing violence in that counter attacking area. so to keep the pressure on, is that the syrian government or the russian government and those are all with the potential for isis to resurge as a strong possibility. >> thank you very much, and much appreciated. and so what should we know

about the what and the when about the raid and one of my guests will speak about the osama bin laden raid ahead. i am the twisting thundercloud. i am royalty of racing, i am alfa romeo. here at... snowfest... for your worst sore throat pain try vicks vapocool drops. it's not candy, it's powerful relief.

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we have notified some, and others are being notified now as i speak. we were going to notify them last night, and we decided not to do that, because washington

leaks like i have never seen before, and there is no country in the world that leaks like we do. and washington is a leaking machine, and i told my people that we will not notify them until the great people are out. >> president trump saying that he notified some of the leaders on capitol hill, and the baghdadi operation, but among those not briefed is house intel chair adam schiff, and chuck schumer and house speaker nancy pelosi. and joining me is ken delaney and gee, what is in common of the three names out there, and three of the most prominent democrats and if not the three most prominent democrats, and they are all part of the gang of eight, and how common that the gang of eight members would not be given a head's up about this major operation? >> it is extraordinarily uncommon, alex. there is a long history of the executive branch briefing the gang of eight, and in fact, the law requires that the gang of eight be currently and fully informed of significant

intelligence activities of the united states, including anticipated intelligence, and the legal loophole is that it is a military operation, and so technically and leelly, it is believed that trump was not required to inform them in advance, and that said, it is very common as a matter of courtesy, because this is a close and enduring relationship on the intelligence matters for the president to inform the leaders of congress about a significant operation about this, and in advance of the 2011 raid to capture, kill, osama bin laden, the then cia director leon panetta looped them in, and that was not leaked. while there is leaking, this group is usually able to keep things secret. >> and i wondered if it is a loophole or just a fit of not

informing the democrats, and a can you explain the time line of how it went down? >> yes, we are learning more from the trump comments and the other comments in that the cia had baghdadi under surveillance for week, and they were tracking the movements and two or three attempted launches that were then aborted because baghdadi changed the plans at the last minute according to trump. so ample opportunity to loop in members of congress here. it is a sign of to increasing mistrust and the partisan rancor in washington. this used to be a nonpartisan thing, and even after when the cia was accused of torturing the detainees the gang of eight were briefed on it and they did not leak it. they wrote memos to file, and they were deeply opposed and controversial, and this is a sign that things are breaking down in foreign policy in washington. >> thank you ken delaney, and as always much appreciated. joining me now is denny hecht,

and a member of the intelligence committee. big welcome to you and couple of questions right off of the bat. what you thought when you heard about the news of the raid and the president's announcement that al baghdadi was killed and also your assessment of the candor with which the president spoke at that news conference revealing that which normally takes quite some time to come out, and usually in dribs and drabs. >> well, first of all, alex, acknowledge this for what it was which is a good day for america. a very bad person who committed heinous acts and murdered lots of people is no longer going to be able to do that. he is not getting up tomorrow morning with a capacity to plan and carry out those kinds of activities against our friends and ourselves. >> yes. >> so this is a good day for america. >> agreed. >> and totally full stop. so with respect to the way in which the president characterized this, i think that the more traditional approach is to not reveal the operational

details whatsoever in the immediate aftermath, because it is a little bit of the sensitive circumstance. it is hot on the ground still. we don't want to tip our hand in any regard with respect to the methods or procedures or personnel, and so generally speaking the more prudent approach is not to do that. secondly, i would characterize some of the language that he used is a little bit problematic inso far it held with it the potential to inflame emotions among some of al baghdadi's followers and we don't need to do that, because we have operational units on the ground and we have to take care of the mission and we don't want to make more of a martyr out of him. there is not a lot of precedent for that rhetoric actually scaring id leologues into actio and so i thought that the language was problematic in that regard and again, it is a good day for america. >> as a member of the house intelligence committee, are you surprised that the gang of eight in the entirety did not learn of

this until afterwards. the president's reasoning referencing washington being a leaking machine make any sense to you? >> i think that a fairly clear reading of the national security act of 19447 which is alluded to earlier would require advanced notice of any covert action, and we can ask ourselves how many angels dance on the head of the pin to get around some perceived loophole which i don't believe exists, but it is not really the point. it is not the clear letter of the law, but it is the point here is what serves our interests long term. i bemoaned along with some of the other people this morning that yearn for the days in which partisanship stopped at the nation's shores when it came to foreign policy. we are stronger when we are together when it comes to foreign policy, and i think that would have been the appropriate path to take in this instance as well. >> do you think that the president had any reason to roll

this out for political reasons? >> he didn't offer any evidence to that fact, alex. if you are aware of it, i would like to know what is it. there is ample ed of strong bi-partisanship of sharing information with the gang of eight and not aware of a single example of the recent past even with difficult disagreements and pointed disagreements of the president's role with respect to ukraine, and that is in no way seeped into or tainted the operational capability of the members of the committee to keep our nation's deepest secrets. >> republican senator lindsey graham knew of the raid ahead of time and let's hear how he praised the president. >> the president has been determined for a very long time to bring baghdadi to justice. i want to compliment him and his team for bringing about a result that i think that is a game-changer in the world on

terror. >> to you agree it is a game-changer in the war on terror? >> i think it is premature to put the mission accomplished sign up, and we learned it with bin laden and when we shrank the caliphate and we will learn it again here. it is easy as the saying goes to kill a terrorist, but it is harder to kill terrorism which is a deeply rooted ideology which is complex problems and to say it is a cult thing is not a winning strategy, but senator graham finally said something that i agree with and i would like to echo and that is to compliment the team who pulled it off. our service members and the members of the intelligence community did an outstanding job of planning and implementing the mission, and tip of the hat as well to the partners and allies supportive of the effort, and in fact, it is prompting me to remember one of my favorite african proverbs, if you want to go fast, go along. if you want to go far, go together. with respect to the fight

against isis, we have far to go, and it is important, i think, to nurture and retain the partnerships and those alliances if we are going to be successful. >> i agree with you, and there is some applause for the military in virtually every corner of the world. thank you, danny heck, it is very nice to talk to you, congressman. and now we will look into the statement that the president use and the language and the boasting. >> bin laden is a big thing, but this is the biggest there is, because this is the worst ever. osama bin laden was very big, but he became big with the world trade center, and this is a man who built a whole as he would like to call it a country. here at... snowfest...

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members of congress are reacting to the president's announcement that a special operations raid killed the isis leader and republicans are hailing this as a victory for the war on terror. >> he has had a determination to destroy the caliphate, unlike anybody i have ever met. >> no question that the middle east is safer today and americans are safer here in the

united states. >> this president who has been attacked and harassed by an impeachment inquiry has been not only working with that and kept his eye on the ball of killing the isis terrorist and leader. >> and the democrats are acknowledging this is a move in the right direction, but criticizing the president for not notifying the congressional leaders. >> it is a symbolic victory and had we gotten into the a firefight with the russians, it is to the administration's advantage to say that we informed congress that we were going in, and aware of the risks. >> it is unfortunate that the speaker of the house and the gang of eight on the democratic side at least were not notified. >> we expect the president to carry out the duties as president, and we will continue to make sure that he is held to account. this is something that can be compartmentalized. >> joining us are the writer for "vanity fair" and also, charlie savage who is a msnbc

contributor. a what stood out for you in the president's remarks? >> well, it is obviously, a good day for the country. baghdadi was a terrible person. and trump is trying to take credit for it politically which is not at all surprising and not to be that obama did the same after the osama bin laden raid, and his campaign manager famously said that the campaign manager was alive and osama was dead. so i was struck by how much detail he put out with the number of helicopters and the tunnel, and that is the kind of the thing to leak anyway and certainly did in 2011 in the immediate aftermath, and looks like he was going to put it out there, and have it come out of his own mouth which is not going to prevent anything coming out that we wouldn't have learned in the next few hours anyway. >> and charlie, i wanted to get to you when speaking of the

president's words in describing al baghdadi's final words and regarding the cowardly crying, whimpering in the funeral like a dog stuff, i'm reminded that the aftermath of osama bin laden, and there was the gilded lily was used when brennan falsely said that ubl had tried to use a wife as a human shield. >> i did put that out. and when he said that he was sobbing and stripped of the strength and running down the tunnel, and it seemed like it struck me as, i would like to know more. maybe it is true and maybe they will put out a video that shows that or maybe it is trump exaggerating in the way that he was does. it is not just him, and there is a history of people in the situations like this wanting to

exaggerate a little bit in a way that tears down the image of the person who very much the united states would not like to be a martyr and a rallying cry, and so your leader was actually a wimp. so i am not saying it is not true, but i am saying that there is a reason for caution rather than accepting it as the literal truth at the first time that we hear it. >> right. overall this incident, abigail, how significant for the trump presidency, and are you hearing reaction from president's tone and the overall remarks that he made about two hours ago? >> it is a significant victory for the president right now, and obviously a good thing. this is a good, you know, a good thing for him and his administration in terms of fighting terrorism, but there are words of caution that it is early, and as congressman denny heck said earlier, there is a difference between killing in terrorists and terrorism, and a

lot of people in washington are kind of ringing the alarm bells and talking about, you know, the broader strategy that we are seeing in the middle east and how this plays into it, and what to expect in the weeks and days to come as a result of the assassination as we have seen the president's syrian policy change in recent weeks, but certainly for trump, you have already seen as we have saw from the republicans who, you know, they were just shown on the program, you know, they are trying to frame it as a political victory and personal victory and partisan victory when you see that he did leave out the democrats in the gang of eight from knowing about it ahead of time, and trump is trying to own it as his victory and republican victory at a time when he is an embattled president. >> yes, and to that fact, it is a week ago, abby, that the president was facing criticism for the decision to pull out of syria. and how much of this particular event bolsters his case that the u.s. is just as effective with less of a footprint? >> well, it is critical to point out that the only reason that

this was successful is because of the filter and the intelligence and the resources in the region. obviously, we have seen even president trump credit the kurds with the intelligence to making this possible. so i think that, again, moving forward it is early times right now, and the question becomes as to whether we could have similarly successful missions in the future as we continue to pull out, and change the syrian policy moving forward. >> perspective-wise, charlie, how impactful is baghdadi's death, and there are success source and the president acknowledged this, but lindsey graham is calling this a game-changer in the war on terror and how do you see it? >> i think that the unfortunate truth of the lived experience in 9/11 is that when you kill one terrorist leader another one does take its place like a hydra, and notwithstanding that trump said that baghdadi was the

founder of isis and he was not a terrible man zawahiri killed many men in iraq and then he was killed and the organization was taken over and built into isis and just as al qaeda is a terrorist threat long after the death of bin laden and the problem is that ideologically-driven organizations don't need a charismatic figure to keep going, because they are not a cult of personality, but a cult of ideology. >> thank you charlie savage and abigail tracy, thank you, both. we will continue the conversation as we head back overseas to discuss this breaking news that happened in idlib province in syria and across the border from turkey. we are joined now from matt bradley in beirut. matt, you have been covering the story over the years of the rise of baghdadi and the reign of terror that he had and the president gave credit to several other nations for the role in

the raid and tell us more about that. >> yeah, it is interesting that he mentioned four countries and crediting the u.s. troops for the involvement in killing al baghdadi. and the interesting things that are coming out the syrian democratic forces he credited but lightly, and they have come out and said that they had a decisive role in the intelligence leading up to this, and that it was delayed one full month because of the president's decision to withdraw the troops from syria with the border of turkey, because it greenlighted the incursion of the turkish troops with the arab allies into northeastern syria, and this to say about russia. he is also basically credited russia, and actually did it voluminously, and he mentioned russia over and over and over again and feeding into critics who are saying that russia is a country he is trying to butter up to, but at the same time

since then, the russians have come out and actually expressed a lot of skepticism that maybe al baghdadi has not been killed at all. so this is interesting of the praise of the russians and answered back with the russians doubting this entirely. the turks of course, they took credit for it and the iraqi government took credit for it, so in the same way that you are seeing syria divided up and dismembered into the groups, and interest groups and countries trying to stake their claim over this very weak now war-torn country, you are seeing that same thing happen in parallel with this massive victory over the killing of abu bakr al baghdadi, and everybody wants a piece. they have the forks out and stabbing for the biggest piece. alex. >> thank you matt bradley from beirut, lebanon, for that, and let's bring in our retired general barry mccaffery. sir, i wanted to give a short paraphrasing of what matt was

alluding to, and saying that the president said that russia treated us great and opened up and we had a flyover certain dangerous areas and russia was great and iraq was also helpful. so in your mind, who should be given the credit of the actions today? >> well, look, it is a complex operation, and ferociously dangerous, and executed with flawless precision. the fact that we had no casualties is astonishing. first of all, we have to recognize lieutenant scott howell in jsoc and a three-star and the operators of delta and the 168th regimen who produced it based on the cia intelligence and the fact that the kurds on the ground have granular recognition of who is moving where and in what parts of the country, that is essential. i wouldn't think that we got anything significant in terms of the intel out of anybody else.

but, look, alex, something needs to be said, the president's language, and whimpering dogs and crying, and it is just astonishing bellicose boastful language and it is unhelpful. you know, it is just astonishing to me and unpresidential conduct. he should take great pride in making decisions to allow this operation to take place, but 50 minutes he stepped all over the context of what we need to be proud of. >> but, general, two ways that could be interpreted by the potential isis followers. it can reduce the stature of al baghdadi, correct? it could make him look like he was a weak man at the end and not this visionary that many will held him to, but might it also incite rage from those who followed him as if there was a lack of respect shown to him,

and then, you know, get their blood boiling if you will. >> well, who knows it is faux tough guy talk and it is not believable. why would he even know what his personal demeanor was down a tunnel in the darkness. so i think it is sort of nonsense faux tough guy talk, and it is unhelpful and he added into the judgment of god, and you don't want to have crusader talk and all of this. and so, you know, if he just sticks to the flawless execution, and congratulating the iraqis was wise, and congratulating the turks probably wise, though, you know, i think that to some extent he is covering up on the gross misjudgment of allowing the greenlighting of the turkish invasion of northern syria, and so, again, i think that the president's demeanor and the language unnecessarily took

attention away from a flawless u.s. military operation. >> yeah, the level of lacking in dignity, let's put it that way. and this is what lawrence wilkerson, and a former chief of staff to collin powell said earlier today. >> it is fooling the american people thinking that the threat is abating because of this action. it is not abating. and ansar al zawahiri is strategically five times smarter than al baghdadi, and we have it festering. >> any chance that the president overplayed the significance and the impact of terror threats in general? >> i don't think that we should minimize the extreme blow that isis suffered in losing baghdadi, because these are compartmented terrorist organizations and when you kill somebody like baghdadi who is not probably the day-to-day chief operating officer of isis international, but nonetheless, they have to knit themselves

together again. there could be succession struggles, so it is a remarkably capable and important blow against isis and terrorism, and having said that, there are 15,000 or more fighters still on the ground from isis, and another 10,000 or so who are likely to escape custody in the coming weeks. so isis not over. this is just a remarkably capable blow to defending the american people. >> the president having said that al baghdadi was under surveillance for quite some time, and this is what the defense secretary mark esper had to say about this today. >> is the stars started to line up some time ago and in the past week or so, the operational forces which were one of several options available to the president started rehearsing and practicing and doing what they would have to do on the objective. it is not until thursday and then friday, the president chose his option, and gave us the

greenlight to proceed as we did yesterday. >> do you have a sense of the timing here in whether this was a now or never type of decision? >> not really. i think that what we ought to underscore is that the cia in particular, but backed up by nsa and the other u.s. intelligence agencies maintains continuous persistent surveillance of all of the threat thos ts to the am people, and in particular isis in the al nusra fronts and the other factions in the area, and we also ought to recognize that jsoc which is a joint army, air force, marine operation is that these people have been in combat now for 16 years. they are simply astonishing. their technology is incredible. so they can react extremely quickly, but a lot of it is based on, again, a continuing

persistent, intelligent surveillance of who the threats are. baghdadi is important and we got him and great operation, and thank god. >> retired four-star general barry mccaffery and as always, sir, thank you for your time. and one big remark that the president made that left some shaking their heads and what was it and was it true? it and was it true david! what did you think of the book? it's a...masterstroke of... heartache...brutality... ...and redemption. you didn't read it, did you? i didn't...but i will. the lexus nx, modern utility for modern obstacles. lease the 2020 nx 300 for $349/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

bin laden was a big thing but this is a big thing. this is the worst ever. osama bin laden was big but

osama bin laden became big with the world trade center. this is a man who built a whole, as he would like to call it, a country. >> president trump there taking a victory lap this morning with the announcement that the leader of isis is now dead. joining me now is phillip reince, co-host of podcast unretracted and susan del percio, an nbc analyst. what were your takeaways from the president's remarks and what's your reaction to all of these developments? >> he should have stopped after he read the teleprompter comments and addressed the nation and left it at that. once he started taking questions, it was a complete disaster. i think when he has to prove himself and compare himself to others, it belittles the men and women who put their lives on the line. i think the fact that he said i could not trust the speaker of the house with notifying her is a bad day for america as well as the world is a safer place because of the actions of this

country. the president, once again, hurt our nation by dividing us further. >> i'm curious, your thoughts on this, and also with the president's statement that it's bigger than bin laden. perspective, please. >> well, he has sort of an obsession of measuring himself against other people. usually what he does, he comes up short, so to speak. i would say, look, the world is better off with al baghdadi gone, so good riddance to him. we are a safer country today than we were yesterday. the real measurement should be if a president wakes up every day and works to keep us safe, he has been in office for 1,009 days. for almost all of them we have gone to bed less safe than when we woke up because his inability to understand the world, to understand what it requires to keep america secure in a very dangerous world. he does not understand -- in fact, he makes a point of diminishing our allies and any of the institutions that keep us safe. so, if you want to compare him to barack obama and who's keeping us safer, that is, you

know, that is not a close call. tomorrow, 60% of america will know exactly who did what and 40% will believe anything he has to say about anybody, even though they didn't know who al baghdadi was two days ago. to susan's point about not trusting the speaker of the house, you know, i'm pretty sure i read something last week about someone named anonymous who worked in the white house, writing a book, that for a year the white house can't figure out who it is. to be petty in the face of the people about to impeachment you is kind of stupid. let's be clear, the guy woke up being impeached. he's going to go to sleep being impeached. we have to be one tweet away from him saying, you can't impeach a president who got the biggest terrorist in world history. you know what, donald trump, we can and we are. >> look, susan, we have seen divisions among republicans on the president's handling of the situation in syria. we're beginning to see a few

cracks in the fissures. how much will that dynamic change with this development, or will it? >> i think they're on two separate tracks. i think when it came to foreign policy, there were a lot of cracks within the republican party on how the president was taking it. obviously, lindsey graham must have been somewhat made aware of what was about to happen because he kind of rolled back his comments with the president just a little bit. but when it comes to impeachment and that track and keeping our country operational, i mean, on november 21st we're facing a potential shutdown, those are two completely different things. and i think they will stay that way. and i think we're going to be looking at an impeachment inquiry, probably looking into the president being impeached within a matter of months. >> i want to get your take on all this all plays with the democrats. in fact, take a listen to how intel chairman -- committee chairman, that is, adam schiff, talked about it this morning. >> this is a great day, a

ruthless killer has been brought to justice. in terms of notifying the gang of eight, that wasn't done. look, the reason to notify the gang of eight is, frankly, more important when things go wrong. had this escalated, had something gone wrong, had we gotten into a fire fight with the russians, it's to the administration's advantage to be able to say, we informed congress, we were going in, they were aware of the risks. we at least gave them the chance to provide feedback. that wasn't done here. >> talk about the challenge for democrats in responding to this victory, especially given the context of the impeachment probe. >> i don't think it's a challenge. look, this is good for every single american that this person, as they say, has been removed from the battlefield. democrats have a responsibility here two-fold. adam schiff is wearing two hats. he is responsible for the oversight committee of the intelligence community and the house of representatives. as part of that, he was not required to have been informed, but he should have been

informed. he was not informed for no other reason other than pettiness on behalf of donald trump. adam schiff's other hat is basically leading the charge on impeaching donald trump. now, i'm no human nature expert, but i would think the dumbest thing you could possibly do to someone who is about to basically pass a grand jury indictment on you is to kick sand in their face. so, once again, donald trump is making something worse than it is. to go back to what you asked sus susan, there is going to be a dynamic helpful to him. donald trump has a bad habit of antagonizing republicans in congress at the same time he needs them for something else. while he's had this problem over the last few weeks with ukraine and impeachment, he has simultaneously had this problem with his actions in syria. and it kind of all becomes a blob to republicans. what's going to happen now is congressional republicans like

lindsey graham, who has been sparring with the president on syria, are going to become emboldened and trump is going to misunderstand that. i guarantee you, donald trump thinks he can head off being impeached. >> we shall see. i look forward to welcoming you both back to the conversation. we're hearing from at least one of the democratic presidential candidates about the killing of al baghdadi. what's the biggest takeaway next. xtsy. who's got the time to chase around down dirt, dust and hair? so now, i use heavy duty swiffer sweeper and dusters. for hard-to-reach places, duster makes it easy to clean. it captures dust in one swipe. ha! gotcha! and sweeper heavy duty cloths lock away twice as much dirt and dust. it gets stuff deep in the grooves other tools can miss. y'know what? my place... is a lot cleaner now. stop cleaning. start swiffering.

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blackie breaking news this hour. this is the latest video from the scene of the raid and the aftermath where isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi met his fate, death at the end of a closed tunnel in northwest syria. good day, from msnbc world headquarters, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." beyond the headline, this story could not be written without some lines marking on the approach in both tone and content of this president making the announcement. here's some of what he said and reaction from other lawmakers. >> last night the united states brought the number one world's terrorist leader to justice -- abu bakr al baghdadi is dead. he died after running into a dead-end tunnel, whimpering and crying and screaming all the way. >> it probably makes me a little uncomfortable to hear a president talking that way, but

again, baghdadi was the inspirational leader for an isis network across the world, from africa to southeast asia. if you can take a little glamour off him, if you can make him less inspirational, then there's a value to that. >> terrorists who oppress and murder innocent people should never sleep soundly knowing we will completely destroy them. >> this is a great day. a ruthless killer has been brought to justice. not the end of isis by any means. we've had some serious setbacks with the release of over 100 isis fighters. that struggle has to go on. >> we have a lot to cover this hour with a team of reporters in states and overseas and analysts to give us all their insights. we're going to begin with nbc's hans nichols at the white house for us. hans, what are the main takeaways from the president's hour-long remarks starting about four hours ago? >> reporter: we have the

details, at least as the white house sees them, we have a little leadup to the raid, what went into it, what the president's thinking was. we have operational details on how the raid was conducted, flying in on eight helicopters. the president giving a remarkable amount of tactical and operational detail. but weave throughout there, you always have to remember with donald trump speaking to an official close to him, he's an entertainer and he knows how to tell a narrative. the narrative the president was trying to tell there is the united states is strong and that isis is on the on the run and it is weak. ultimately, the leader of this group died a whimpering coward. that's what the president wants to drive. you watch him tweet in the coming days, you watch the tweets that have already happened, it's clear that's what he wants to push. there are some open questions. namely, who did he notify beforehand? the president said he didn't notify capitol hill. he did have conversations with the turks and the russians. at least the conversations with the russians was more along the

deconfliction line, which is just to make sure you stay out of people's air space. whether or not there's going to be further calls from congress on the authorities the president used, i think, is something we should look at here. crucially, what sort of intelligence did they gather there, what sort of site exploitation? the president indicated al baghdadi died and tragically three children died, they left -- u.s. forces left with some detainees and they could be high value and they could help the u.s. understand and ultimately defeat isis's senior leadership a little better. >> certainly what congressional leaders knew and when they knew it will be the topic of discussion and inquiry for sure. hans nichols, thank you from the white house. let's go to courtney. i know you have more details on exactly what happened in that military operation. >> reporter: so, alex, we've now heard not just from president trump in that address from the white house and the extensive q&a with reporters afterwards,

we actually heard from a couple of president trump's senior administration officials, including the secretary of defense, mark esper. he came out on several of the sunday shows and talked about more of the details. we know from president trump that the raid included eight helicopters. they flew through russian and turkish air space. he talked about what the u.s. military calls a deconfliction mechanism. the way they deconflict their air space. he also talked a little bit about what happened on the ground there. he very specifically said abu bakr al baghdadi in his last moments, he described him as cowardly, whimpering, screaming, crying. as hans mentioned, he dragged three children down into a hole before he detonated a suicide vest, killing all four of them. we heard from a more measured tone from mark es spper, he spo about al baghdadi's last moments and how they're so confident the terror leader may be killed. >> that's the report we have on

the ground from the commander that we tried to call him out and ask him to surrender himself. he refused. he went down into a subterranean area and in the process of trying to get him out, he detonated a suicide vest, we believe, and killed himself. >> so, he killed himself? >> yes. >> has a dna verification been done on his body to verify that it is him? >> we have confirmation through a form of visual and also dna confirmation? >> dna confirmation has come through? >> yes. i was briefed on that by the commander earlier this morning. >> reporter: of course, that was secretary of defense mark esper explaining a little bit of the process for how the u.s. gathered dna of baghdadi at the site afterwards and they were able to test it and confirm it was him. we also know in the process of this raid, the whole thing lasted several hours, that these very elite u.s. special operation forces were on the ground at the compound. but much of that time was actually used for what the

military would call site exploitation, what hans referenced earlier. that means they go through, they try to gather up any kind of possible intelligence, whether it's files, computers, anything they might be able to take back and assess whether there's any kind of actionable intelligence that the u.s. can then act very quickly on to try to continue to go after the isis network in syria, in iraq and around the world. if this was a location where abu bakr al baghdadi was bedding down, it's possible there might have been information about the larger isis terror network that they might have been able to exploit there. alex? >> courtney kube, thank you. we appreciate that live report. of course, the president using his address, discussing the dangers that u.s. special forces faced in their mission targeting the leader of isis. take a listen. >> we flew very, very low and very, very fast. but it was a big -- it was a very dangerous part of the mission. getting in and getting out, too,

equal. >> nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engel joining us live from northern syria. i know, richard, you are very familiar with the area. take us through a couple of aspects of the danger here, how dangerous it was for those u.s. military operatives as well as those that live in that community, the neighbors. i know some of whom you have spoken and gotten reports on what it was like for them to live through this. >> reporter: so, there are obviously dangers involved any time you are going into hostile terrain and any time you are launching a mission like this. you have to launch it in total secrecy. you don't want any information about the actual specific timing to take place. so, you have to be very careful. this mission flew over hostile terrain. it flew over, according to the president, areas where there were russian troops, where there were syrian defenses. this is an active war zone. so, they are moving through an active war zone and then going to a hostile target. you're going to the leader of

isis and you don't know what kind of specifically traps you might find. doors that could be booby-trapped. the president described how special operation forces blew a hole through the wall so they could enter the compound more safely, which is a standard tactic these commandos use. these special elite operation units do this kind of things all the time. they do this in afghanistan. they do this in libya. they do this in many countries. they are very, very familiar with snatch and grab or snatch and smash operations, however you want to describe them. according to multiple witnesses, around 11:00 last night these helicopters went over the small syrian village, a nondescript village of small houses, some olive trees around them, very close to the turkish border. i know this area myself. i've crossed through there about a half dozen times. it's a known smuggling route between syria and turkey and has been for years and years.

as they approached this one particular house on the edge of this very tiny village. they were circling helicopters, firing as they landed. they landed about 100 special operation forces went out, went into what was abu bakr al baghdadi's safe house, according to witnesses and according to the president. there was exchanges of fire. quite a bit of fire. and then they were on the ground for about two hours trying to find baghdadi, according to the president, driving himself into a tunnel, detonating a device, using a dog to chase him down, gathering evidence and then blowing up the compound in two final rounds. there is another story to all of this. here in northern syria, you would expect that people would be celebrating all of this. that a terror leader has just been killed. the world is a safer, better place without baghdadi in it. but they are not celebrating here. they are very happy baghdadi is gone. this is a kurdish region.

isis terrorized kurds, they hunted down kurds because they refused to accept the isis way of life. but it was the kurds here in northern iraq who in many ways made this operation possible because for the last five years they have been chasing after isis with those very same american special operations forces. and today they only got a passing mention by president trump, a passing thank you, while right now their homeland is being destroyed by turkey. they are being displaced. they are being moved on. they're not very thankful about what happened. they say, we've cooperated with the united states for so long and helped make this moment possible. president trump turned it into a moment to celebrate himself while they are being driven off of their land. that's how it was being seen from here today. >> point well driven, indeed. thank you so much, richard engel, from northern syria. "newsweek" broke the story of this raid last night. one of the writers joins me right now, former fbi

intelligence officer, double agent and author of "how to catch a russian spy." how did this come together for you? >> well, so we started hearing rumors about a significant operation both from regional intelligence officers as well as folks in the pentagon. and, you know, this was a pretty big deal. one of the things we're still tracking now is really trying to understand what this actually does tactically and operationally for isis. with he know baghdadi was the leader of isis, but we do not know if he was in charge and dealing with day-to-day or operational things with isis or if he was not a figure head. we know for a fact, look, terrorist organizations are decentralized. it's of no doubt that isis clearly had a form of success n succession. where baghdadi was actually found was in a region control what was supposed to be his successor. we're trying to understand what exactly this has, if any, impact on actual isis operations. we're not quite sure that beyond

what the president is saying this actually fundamentally curbs isis or defeats it. >> i'm curious, how does the president's account of all the events square with what you're hearing from your sources? one of your colleagues that turkey was only looped in after the raid started. >> that's right. we've heard that the decision was made roughly a week ago to do this. we're trying to understand exactly what impact the decision to leave the kurdish -- >> wait. question, when you say that this operation was decided a week ago, isn't it our understanding that al baghdadi only got to this safe house 48 hours ago? i mean, how would the decision have been made a week ago? >> this is a very good question. this is something we're trying to confirm. where was al baghdadi before this? when i say the decision was made, the president gave permission to carry out this operation we believe a week or so ago. it wasn't until after the

withdrawal from syria, where was baghdadi before that. we've heard lots of stories -- look, this is a porous border. that's one thing the turks will tell you about. it's clearly a porous border with others. why did he end up here? what does it mean he's been killed in terms of isis. there's a lot to unpack here. >> you watch the president's remarks about all this. you heard the language that he used. how do you think that plays in the sort of terrorist underworld? what could he have been trying to accomplish about the tenor and what implication could it have actually? >> i think this is partisan pandering. again, we want to take a step back and objectively analyze what impact does the death of al baghdadi have on isis. that's the core question here. we can assign certain attributes, what his final moments was like. i don't think that changes that isis is a formidable terrorist organization, they still have

resources, they're still prevalent in the region. i don't know how much it helps. it's not really the color that operators and intelligence analysts who planned this want to have the american people think about this. this was clearly a methodical, long-term operation. there's a group within the cia that is keeping track of high-value targets. this was something they've been probably looking for years. and i think that to boil it down to those sort of adjectives and make the american people think this is someopeople sniveling, would rather look at special operatives and jsoc approached this with. two big and different aspects of this story to tell you about. one a pointed tweet from house speaker nancy pelosi and mayor pete buttigieg, one of the first 2020 candidates to react to it all. 2020 candidates to react to it all.

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the president's announcement that the isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi was killed in a raid in syria is reverberating across the political spectrum. the president's allies saying it's a victory. >> it's had the determination to destroy the caliphate unlike anyone i've met. >> no question the middle eastern is safer today. >> a president who's been

harassed by an impeachment probe, it is president took that, working with that and kept his eye on the ball. kept his eye on the ball of killing the isis leader and terrorist. >> democrats certainly acknowledging this is an operational success and a move in the right direction but they are criticizing the president for not notifying top congressional legislators, including nancy pelosi who tweeted, the house must be briefed on this raid, which the russians. listen to mayor pete buttigieg reacting to the president saying he didn't notify congress because, quote, washington leaks. >> clearly this is a real blow against isis and a positive step in the fight against stateless terrorism and credit should go to all who are involved. it's a concern to hear the gang of eight were not notified. this should be beyond politics, beyond partisanship. if the president were concerned about leaks, he should be concerned about his own white

house. >> joining me, senior reporter for business insider and josh g g gerstein. josh, you covered the death of osama bin laden, all the fallout of that. what are some of the striking differences in president trump's announcement about this killing versus that of barack obama's? >> well, i mean, the announcement that the president made, it was pretty curious how he seemed to be insisting this was better than what happened with bin laden, this was a bigger, more important terrorist figure than bin laden, despite the fact that bin laden, i'm sure folks in the united states will not forget, killed 3,000 americans during the 9/11 attack. that seems sort of absurd on its face. it should be remembered in the bin laden raid, there was notification to congress. now, it's a slightly different situation. that was going into pakistan, which is a sovereign country. this was more of a war zone and

sort of a no man's land under the control of isis. but it is interesting this white house saw fit to notify various allies and nonallies, like russia, but didn't think that they found it necessary to notify the members of congress -- leaders in congress -- >> why is this troubling to you, josh? >> well, i mean, because there are certain things that should be above politics and even above ongoing impeachment proceedings. and critical national security interests, like isis, despite the fact that the president announced several weeks ago they had been completely defeated and destroyed, these things are normally shared at the highest levels of government so there is some accountability within the government, especially if these raids go wrong or lead to consequences in the region that might not have been foreseen. >> despite all this, there is bipartisan acknowledgment to the significance of this moment. how big of an impact does this

have on the trump presidency, especially with the back drop of impeachment inquiry there? >> so politically speaking this is coming at a really good time for the president because he is kind of being battered on every single front, whether it comes to ukraine impeachment, a number of federal court rulings, tax returns, so this is a political boon for the president. i do want to echo what josh said, despite how decidedly trumpian this news conference wassings we saw him sticking to the script reading off the teleprompter at the beginning and then he veered off the rails when it came to taking questions and answers what reporters were asking him, where he seemed to strike this weird comparison to the bin laden raid and it should have been above politics. >> you write in your latest piece that trump is getting battered on all fronts in congress, the courts and even

his own officials eviscerate him. how much does this event take the heat off him? >> i think it depends on how the white house continues to, you know, message on this. and i don't -- i don't think it's likely that the president will stick to the notion that this is a massive national security victory for the u.s. it's going to turn into more the trump show. and i think that this is going to hurt his own message. it should be focusing on how this fight against isis has been going on for years and this is a significant victory for the u.s. but he's going to turn it to focus on himself and that's going to hurt him in the end. >> lots of breaking news today. thank you so much. i apologize for the brevity of this conversation. meantime, coming up next, the president making a point of directly calling out congressman al green on impeachment. you'll hear what he said, why and then i'm going to get reaction from representative green directly next. ly next. these days, we're all stressed.

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i'm concerned if we don't impeach this president, he will get re-elected. if we don't impeach him, he will say he's been vindicated.

>> democrat al green right here back in may. now those comments being brought up by president trump in a cabinet meeting this week. >> i see this guy, congressman al green, saying we have to impeach him otherwise he's going to win the election. what's that all about? but that's exactly what they're saying. we have to impeach him because otherwise he's going to win. i'm going to win the elections. i think they want to impeach me because it's the only way they're going to win. they've got nothing. >> joining me now is texas representative al green, a member of the congressional black caucus. we welcome you, sir, back to the broadcast. what do you make of the president citing you and do you think he's twisting your words? he used the words, that's exactly what they're saying. he didn't quote you. >> thank you for having me on. it's not unusual for this president, who commits about 22

insidious prevarications a day. this president is indicating because he's subject to prevarications, he will say he's vindicated. we have to honor the constitution. the president has committed impeachable acts and the president must be impeached. i think if we fail to do so, we will not honor the constitution, we will not send the proper signal to future presidents and we'll say to this president, there are no guardrails. impeachment is the proper course of conduct. >> your colleagues on this day 34, i believe it is of their impeachment inquiry, so somebody has made it very clear that articles of impeachment can already be drawn up. are you concerned the inquiry could drag on too long and lose its momentum? >> of course i am. and i've spoken to this. i've talked about dr. king's comment about the paralysis of

analysis. i think it can go on too long and some point persons will conclude this is political and we should revolve it with an election. i think this is separate and apart from any election. in is all about democracy, not democrats, it's not about the republicans. it's about the republic. and i think we have a duty and responsibility and obligation to take up the impeachable acts and vote on them. and then let the senate have the opportunity to vote on them by way of trial. in is constitutional and also a very jushs thing for us to do. >> this week you condemned the president for comparing the impeachment inquiry to a lynching. you tweeted this yesterday, and i'll read the tweet. mr. president, long after you're gone, the hate you've enagainered will live on. impeach now for hate. how exactly do you fear this kind of hate will live on? >> hate does not dissipate

simply because the person who initiated it has left the scene as it were. the president has done some things to cause societal changes in a very harmful way. i talk to people who are now telling me that on their jobs they're having people say and do things they did not anticipate. i read a story from the jerusalem post recently where in the american jewish committee has found eight or more of ten persons believe anti-semitism has spiked in recent years. all of the empirical evidence seems to indicate that it's on the rise. and the president is contributing to this with his words, deeds and actions. there are very fine people among the biggest in charlottesville, who were killed who say muslims ought to be banned from the country and then put a policy in place, to use lynching. something we know is not the

equivalent of article 2, section 4 of the constitution which deals with impeachment. not equivalent in any way but to compare it to the impeachment. the president goes beyond the pale. and we must, in my opinion, add his bigotry that has been infused in policy in the articles of impeachment. i truly hope that we will because this was our original sin. in is the reason a civil war was fought. this is the reason republicans, republicans had this at the root of their articles of impeachment against andrew johnson in 1868. article 10 clearly went after him for his bigotry, his hate, his racism. my hope is that the republicans of this era will be as bold and as brave as the republicans of 1868. >> you know, i'm reminded by your remarks in the spike of anti-semitism in this country that it's actually one year ago today that was the pittsburgh

synagogue shooting. that is duly noted. look, congressman, this president is going to say what he's going to say. short of impeachment, what can democrats do to ensure its long-term effects are menable, this hate of which you speak. >> you have to stare hate down. you can't tolerate it. when you tolerate hate, you per pet rate hate. we have to stare it down. we have to say it exists. we have to talk about it. i know there are many people who find this an unpleasant topic, but it's a topic we must erase if we're going to eliminate hate. i don't want to manage it. i want to eliminate it. there are lots of people who would like to see bigotry as usual. they would like to see al green go away. i can't. i live throughed a hateful period of time in this country when the constitution afforded me certain rights that my neighbors took away. they forced me to go to colored water fountains, they forced me to sit in the back of the bus, i

have to step off the sidewalk when persons of a different hue came along. i have had people demean me in ways you can't imagine. i can't let it go. those who can, do what you will. i do what i must. >> congressman al green, let me just say for the record, we're honored to have you here on this broadcast. thank you for joining me, sir. the tone of president trump's announcement today and difference from how when president obama announced the death of bin laden, that's next. for your worst sore throat pain try vicks vapocool drops. it's not candy, it's powerful relief. ahhhhhh! vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. [phone ringing] how are we doing? fabulous. ♪ i wonder how the firm's doing without its fearless leader. ♪ you sure you want to leave that all behind?

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al baghdadi is an iconic figure. he is in some ways viewed as a spiritual leader and some parts of isis view him as a muslim scholar, someone to be revered. i think a lot of that sharpness from trump was really directed as trying to burst a bubble of perception within the terrorist community and reinforce the fact that isis is, in fact, vulnerable to american military power. >> that certainly is a possibility, sir. are you at all concerned that the other side of the coin, if you will, that it could inspire others or incite more violence because of anger as to how this leader, someone whom you identify as almost seen as a

religious figure by those, was characterized by this president? >> a couple of points. when events like this happen, there's usually a sort of dip for lack of a better term, in the level of violence as the leadership of these organizations -- like after the death of bin laden, where they try to reorganize, reconstitute, reorder themselves structurally. we could look for a period of quiscence for a time. we can look forward in the future to something like this happening. the last point i'll make, it's important. that this raid reinforces is isis now considers themselves no longer to be a regional terrorist group but now a global terrorist group. that's really the key point that what al baghdadi was trying to do in western syria is to reconstitute his terrorist empire by striking targets in

western europe and, god forbid, in the united states some time in the future. i think that's what we ought to be looking out for. >> general, given what you've heard so far, what stands out to you as to how this operation played out? >> wow. i've been covering these operations for many years. this is clearly the most dangerous and i think the most complex that jsoc has pulled off in the last 20 years. a couple of quick points. a 700-kilometer approach march and return march by air at low altitude, flying through separate air defense zones. one controlled bit syrians, the russians and the turks. take down in the middle of the night, transporting 70 special operators who had to break down thick stone walls in order to get to their target, kill al baghdadi and his hinchmen and get away with zero casualties. that is profoundly different than what we've seen in the

past. >> sir, the president says al baghdadi was under surveillance for quite some time. here's what defense secretary mark esper had to say about it today. take a listen. >> stars started lining up some time ago. in the past couple of weeks, week or so, the operational forces, which were one of several options available to the president, started rehearsing and practicing and doing what they would have to do on the objective. it wasn't until thursday and then friday the president chose his option and gave us the green light to proceed as we did yesterday. >> is there any sense to you, sir, this may have been a now or never type decision, given the history of al baghdadi and the way he was able to move for so long undetected officially? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, this bull sticks his head up very infrequently. the last time we heard from him was back in april. the other thing that's interesting about this operation is, sure, they practiced for months, i got that.

but the setup and the mount-up and the last-minute rock drill that this organization has to conduct, they did in a matter of hours. that shows extraordinary professionalism. you know, special operations is not a pickup game. folks like this have to be incredibly well trained to be able to play audibles, to conduct an ad hoc last-minute operation. it shows enormous and incredible skill. >> good to speak with you. i look forward to talking to you. another headline from the president's remarks today. the president making comparisons to his predecessor's announcement when barack obama announced al qaeda's leader was killed. >> bin laden was a big thing, but this is the biggest there is. this is the worst ever. osama bin laden was very big, but osama bin laden became big with the world trade center. this is a man who built a whole, as he would like to call it, a

country. >> joining me now is elana beverly, who worked for the obama administration. msnbc contributor adrienneadrie. elana, what was your reaction to that comparison to your former boss? >> it was just devastating. i'm not going to compare evils. i'm not going to compare osama bin laden to al baghdadi, but the difference between president obama and president trump is so stark. the idea that there are very few times when you can bring the nation together and unify us, when a president has an opportunity to unify the country and trump used this moment to dehumanize the enemy, to take credit, to claim that his -- that his victory today was bigger than the victory in taking down the man who led a terrorist attack that killed

almost 3,000 americans on american soil. the contrast could not have been clearer. and i will say this, one thing about the way president obama shared the information about the capture and killing of osama bin laden, he made sure that we knew that our war was not with the islamic faith. he made sure, he emphasized the gravity of the moment every time he put any of our troops in harm's way. and he made sure that he lifted up the fact that the american people were more unified in the wake of 9/11 than ever and that we were taking this moment seriously. whereas trump acted like a bragging kindergartner saying, we took him, we took -- we took al baghdadi, that he was whimpering and crying. it was just a devastating statement. >> noelle, this next question is

coming to you. you can comment on that elana just said, but what do you think the president was trying to mrirn by the way he put this description of events? >> i think he was actually trying to tell the american people that this is a big win for not only the united states, but for the world. and i think that he just wanted to reiterate how bad isis is and how bad of a group that they are worldwide. so, you know, i think that the styles of the two men, i don't even have to tell you. we all know that, you know, president obama was an extremely fantastic speaker. very eloquent. very classy. very smooth. president trump is not. i mean, we all know that he's bombastic, he says whatever he wants. you know, who knows. but that's his style. so, to compare the two is -- you know, is totally, you know -- you just can't. they're totally two different men. but i do think that that's what

he was trying to get across. i think that's why he used that language, going out like a whimpering dog, pretty much to attack this man. anyone listening to president trump describing this man's death, he wanted to make sure that he was shown as dying as a coward and not as a great leader. >> i want you to pick up on this and weigh in on the two different presentations there. do you think any of this had to do with the fact that osama bin laden had been be baked into the cultures around the world because of 9/11? he was a big deal. almost everybody knew his name. not everybody necessarily knew the name of al baghdadi. was the president trying to prop that up? >> yeah, ailthe way you frame t is exactly right. osama bin laden is someone we had been trying to take down as a country and, of course, globally the anticipa-terrorist

community had been trying to take down osama bin laden for years, since 9/11 took place and even before then. this is a name we did not know, that was not as familiar to us. and i think that, yeah, president trump when he went up there this morning to make this declaration, to inform the world about this important victory, that our armed services, our intelligence community and men and women in the military accomplished and achieveded, you know, in the back of his mind he's thinking, i want to make sure that people understand that i believe this is a much bigger deal than capturing osama bin laden. that is not the way, that is not what our president should be thinking. that is not what i think we expect out of our leader but it is something, unfortunately, we have come to realize that donald trump is going to do, which is in the back of his mind, all he cares about is, you know, being the victor, trying to one-up his predecessors. i think that's what we unfortunately saw happen this morning. >> very quickly, was there reason you think for the president to reveal all of the

operational details the way he did? >> yeah, alex, that was so inappropriate. the language he used, it's sort of like a kindergartner on the playground. i would liken it to a football player talking to his fellow players on the field in the game. it was so inappropriate for anybody in our government to use that language. certainly inappropriate for the president. look, ultimately, at the end of the day, this is a big deal. this was a victory for, again, our intelligence community, our men and women in the military and we shouldn't lose sight of that. >> i'm glad you said that because we very much should not. ladies, i'm sorry for the brevity of this conversation. thank you so much. let's turn now to the race for 2020. right now day three of the second step presidential justice forum is under way in south carolina. three democratic candidates are taking part in that today. let's go to nbc's leigh ann caldwell joining us from columbia, south carolina. with a welcome. it's the first opportunity some

of these candidates have had to respond to the al baghdadi news. are they reacting to it today? >> reporter: they're actually not on this stage. julian castro is behind me right now. they're sticking to the subject of criminal justice reform. that's what this audience wanted to hear. we did just get a tweet from elizabeth warren. i want to say she took the stage first this afternoon at 12:00, spoke for an hour on criminal justice reform. didn't want to talk to the president after. but she did tweet her reaction to baghdadi. here's what she had to say. she tweeted that he led a campaign of mass violence and terror that devastated the region. she went on to say that his death is a setback for isis and a victory for justice. she's grateful for the skill and courage of our special operations professionals. she goes on to say al baghdadi's death closes one chapter but it's not the end of the fight against terrorism. we need a settlement that ends the suffering and destruction in syria and ultimately a long-term plan to counter extremism and

allow the region to achieve peace and stability. so, she is the first candidate to -- that we are able to hear from on this news. as far as criminal justice is concerned, elizabeth warren spoke for an hour on the spoke issue. the audience was engaged and wanted to hear about it. they asked many questions. one thing she did say, she says she supports the delegalization -- or the legalization and decriminalization of marijuana. here's what she had to say. >> even though states have been legalizing marijuana, federal government has not. so let's start with the obvious, we need to legalize marijuana all across this country. and then let's do the next part and that is we need to go back and let people out of police one are in prison for marijuana offenses alone and we need to ekts punge t expunge the recordr

people arrested for marijuana possession. >> reporter: that's become more main stream position among the democratic candidates. as far as julian castro is concerned speaking behind me, he had some pretty aggressive proposals as well including raising the age of being tried as an adult from 18 to 21 so that is separating himself from the field. this is going to continue for another hour-and-a-half, kas tro after this is tulsi gabbard. >> lee yaep called caldwell, thank you. the president thanked russia a number of times in his remarks earlier. did that country deserve the recognition? ier. did that country deserve the recognition? when i got my dna results, it opened up so many doors. it's a lifelong adventure

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isis inside the army of terror. can you answer that question and say i welcome you to the broadcast, what did they specifically do with respect to that praise? >> with respect to russia is not shoot down u.s. helicopter, which i suppose is a favor. interestingly enough, the russian president said not only do they doubt this took place they don't think it was at all successful, in other words, baghdadi is alive. keep in mind, the government claimed in the past falsely to have killed baghdadi, themselves, so this is another instance of mr. putin never letting a good deed go unpunished. turkey i don't think played a role. what i am hearing and i will let msnbc report irs confirm this. it was the iraqi go. specifically an iraqi intelligence operation which provided the crucial information. a syrian smuggler who had been employed by al baghdadi was recruited by the iraqis and he

basically reconstructed the route of where baghdadi was going. he was first in a town on the iraqi-syrian border on the iraqi side and then way went to this location, uncovered a cache of personal belongings to baethd, including a map and coordinates of where he was going to a life, iraqis pass it along to the cia, with all of its vast technical apparatus conducted a week's-long surveillance to make sure osama bin laden was in deed in that compound. again this is preliminary stuff i am hearing, the "guardian" newspaper is about to report the hows and wheres this is put together. i'm not hearing about turkey playing a role or the sdf syrian democratic forces playing a role, indeed this seems to be an iraqi-run operation. what's important the iraqis are quite good at this stuff. he is a native, but they played

a crucial role in also locating the former spokesman for isis thought to be probably the amyre in waiting should something happen to baghdadi. he was killed i believe in 2017 again with crucial intelligence passed from baghdad to the united states from so, michael, the fact that we have reports of the president having given the go ahead to have this operation a week ago and yet the reports are that al baghdadi appeared in this safehouse 48 hours ago. does that all makes sense to you? do you believe they would have the ability to track him to the point of being able to take him out earlier? >> they might have. look. these things are very difficult. the worst thing in the world you get the wrong guys, you think you've located the compound, the mystical palace where the world's most infamous international terrorist has been holding up. it turns out it's bad information. anything that's involving human

intelligence, we know this from the lead-up to the iraq war i remind you has to be excruciatingly cross corrected and verified, crucial intelligence the u.s. played a role ultimately confirmed this. >> michael weiss i very much regret having to wrap with you. you know your stuff. thank you for the conversation. >> thank you. coming up, my colleague kendis gibson looks into the death of al baghdadi and why congressional leadership was kept in the dark about it. congressional leadership was kept in the dark about it. colon cancer. i'm not worried. it doesn't run in my family. i can do it next year. no rush. cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers. you just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab. there's no excuse for waiting. get screened. ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers.

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we are out of time here on weekends with alex witt. kendis dpibson is picking up. >> enjoy your day, i'm kendis gibson live. the world's most wanted terrorist dead. >> last night the united states brought the world's number one terrorist leader to justice. abu bakr al baghdadi is dead. >> president trump says the isis leader quote died like a coward, after his controversial decisions in syria, the president's announcement is raising some more questions. will he or won't he have legal proceedings causing questions over the next scheduled deposition in the impeachment inquiry as