Bowling for Columbine : MSNBCW : October 27, 2019 6:00pm-9:00pm PDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive

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trump and ukraine impeachment crisis. we have another and different special program for you. "bowling for combine" as well as a conversation i had with michael moore. many people have said, when it comes to guns this film is as relevant as ever. i will be back next sunday at this time for our separate and continuing series on donald trump's impeachment crisis. as always, thanks for watching. this is an msnbc special presentation. hello. i'm joining you for something important. each time there is a mass shooting in the united states, there are heart-breaking images of innocent people killed and injured and families and communities that will never be the same, schools, synagogues, churches, nightclubs, the shopping centers. it feels like no place is spared. then we face the questions and go through this ritual, why does

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this happen? what can be done? why wasn't something done before the last one? this debate in our country is highly charged. for many the solutions seem out of reach at this point. at the shooting in 1999 that left 12 students and a teacher dead, michael moore made the academy award winning film "bowling or columbine" about america's attachment to firearms and the seemingly relentless march of gun violence in our country. tonight wherever you come down on this gun debate, you may find this film's graphic images disturbances. but this is a very special presentation of michael moore's film. it is not produced by msnbc. as part of this special presentation michael joins me before and after this film and he's here right now. michael moore, thank you for doing this. >> thank you very much for having me on tonight and for

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letting me share my film with the american public. >> why do you see this as relevant now? and what people are about to see in just a moment or two, why did you choose to present some of the violence and the images the way you did? >> this is a very, very difficult issue to grapple with. there are over 300 million guns in people's homes in this country. no other nation on earth has the level of gun violence we have. i have wanted to ask the question why. why us? we're good people. this is a good country. why do we kill so many of our own? why do we have such a high suicide rate? why? why? you know, the day the colshooti happened my crew and i decided we have to do something about this. we have to make a documentary about this. and we have to make sure there is not another -- i remember saying this that day, that there

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is never another school shooting. sadly, here we are some 17 years later and there was more than one columbincolumbine. a mass shooting is defined as four people are shot in a shooting. there is an average now of one a day of the school shootings, the chumps, synagogues, shopping malls. it seems like every month there is one of those. sometimes more than once a month. >> and this film is one many activists and many people affected by this issue have urged policymakers and others to watch. >> yes. >> was that part of what you set out to do? >> yes. >> and did you want to shock people? >> no. it's shocking enough when your child comes home at seven years old and said that he or she participated in an active shooter drill in school where they had to either run for their lives or hide and have the fear in them at seven years old that they could die in the next ten seconds. that's the common denominator

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with all americans, regardless of what your politics are. and i don't think any of us want to live in that society. we want to change that society. so, yes, i made this in the hopes we change it. you and mentioned so eed some o graphic or shocking images people will see in the film. i put them in there because i think it is important not to look away. we need to face this down as americans. yes, it is hard to watch. but i remember as a child when the vietnam war was going on watching nbc news and a vietnamese captain or kernel pulls a prisoner of war into the street and on nbc puts a gun to his head and blows it, literally his brains come out the other side. and i'm a child watching this. now, in the war since vietnam they don't show that on the evening news. but i'll tell you this. seeing that, seeing that little girl in vietnam with the napalm

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burning the skin off her body, these images are powerful and they played a role in ending that war. >> you are talking about the link between the story telling and what we do about it as a society. >> yes. >> michael, what we're going to do is the screening. you're going to stick around and we will talk on the policy and politics afterwards. we turn to a special screening of "bowling for columbine." michael moore and i will return at the end of the film.

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the national rifle association has produced a film which you are sure to find of great interest. let's look at it. >> it was the morning of april 20th, 1999, and it was pretty much like any other morning in america. the farmer did his chores. the milkman made his deliveries. the president bombed another country whose name we couldn't pronounce. out in north dakota, kerry mcwilliams went out on his morning walk. back in michigan miss hughes welcomed her students for

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another day of school. in choleolorado two boys went bowling at 6:00 in the morning. yes, it was a typical day in the united states of america. >> can i help you? >> yeah. i'm here to open up an account. >> okay. what type of account would you -- >> i want the account where i can get the free gun. >> okay. >> i had spotted an ad in the local michigan paper that said if you opened an account at north country bank the bank would give you a gun. >> you do a cd, and we'll give you a gun. we have a whole brochure here you can look at. once we do the back ground check and everything, it's yours to go. >> right, right. all right. well, that's the account i would like to open. >> we have a vault which we keep at least 500 firearms. >> 500 of these in your vault? >> yes. >> we have to do a background check, which we are a licensed firearm dealer.

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>> you are? what do i put for race, white or caucasian? >> caucasian. i knew you were going to make me spell the -- caucasian. is that right? >> yes. i don't think that's the part they're going to be worried about. have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution. what does that mean have i ever been adjudicated mentally defective. >> it would be something involved with a crime. >> with a crime, okay. so if i'm normally mentally defective. >> exactly. >> thank you. wow. >> it's a straight shooter, let me tell you. >> sweet. well, here is my first question. do you think it's a little dangerous hanging out with guns in a bank? ♪

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♪ ♪ ♪ gung ho! >> each sound makes lots of battle sounds. just press the trigger and listen. >> this sounds like a gun battle over there. >> is it real? >> looks like real. and it sounds like real. >> right. the sound of power, military and

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western rifles by marx. >> this was my first gun. i couldn't wait to go outside and shoot up the neighborhood. those were the days. ♪ i was born in michigan ♪ and i wish and wish again ♪ that i was back in the town where i was born. >> by the time i was a teenager, i was such a good shot, i won the national rifle association's marksman award. you see, i grew up in michigan, a gun lover's paradise. and so did this man, the oscar winning actor and president of the national rifle association, mr. charleston heston. we come from a state where everyone loves to go hunting. even the dogs. >> there were actually two of the hunters at the camp. they fought they would get a few pictures of the dog pressed up

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as a hunter. and one of the guys had the idea that why don't we sling a rifle on the dog's back to make the pictures a little more interesting. the victim was kneeling down in front of the dog when the weapon slipped. one round went through the victim's chin, the right part of his chin and came out through the back of his calf. >> was the dog held at all for my period of time by the president. >> no, it wasn't. in michigan, the law basically states that people can commit crimes, that animals aren't some form of, you know, whatever that could commit a crime. >> an animal cannot commit a crime or be charged with a crime in this state? >> exactly. >> is it possible the dog knew what it was doing. >> that i don't know. i really wouldn't be able to tell you that. >> oh, the dog was cute dressed up as a hunter. there is no doubt about it. it was a funny picture. you know, to look at, it was kind of neat.

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>> yep. this was the kind of place i was from. >> a box of 270s. >> there you go. >> perfect. >> sorry about that. sorry. >> all right. you have been discharged. >> you don't need no gun control. you know what you need? we need some bullet control. we need to control the bullets. that's right. i think all bullets should cost $5,000. $5,000 for a bullet. you know why? because if a bullet costs $5,000 there would be no more innocent bystanders. every time somebody get shot, they're like, damn, he must have did something. they put $55,000 worth of bullets in his ass. people better think before they kill somebody if a bullet cost

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$5,000. man, i would blow your [ bleep ] head off if i could afford it. i'm going to get me another job. i'm going to start saving some money, and you a dead man. you better hope i can't get no bullets on lay-away. >> not far from where charleston heston and i grew up is a training ground for the michigan militia. >> why do you use the bowling pins. >> from a self-defense standpoint, it is a small target. it also represents the vitals on a human being should you ever have to shoot at one. >> the michigan militia became known around the world when on april 19th, 1995 two guys living in michigan who had attended militia meetings blew up the federal building in oklahoma city, killing 168 people. the michigan militia wanted everyone to know that they were

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nothing like mcvay and nichols. >> this is an american tradition. it is an american responsible to be armed. if you're not armed, you're not responsible. who is going to defend your kids? the cops? the federal government? >> no, none of them. >> it is your job to defend you and yours. if you don't do it, you are in dereliction of duty as an american, period. >> we're just here to let them know that, hey, we're here to help. we're here to help and defend the people of this country. >> i'm sure you guys are the kind of people people would like to have as their neighbor. >> pretty much. we're all normal people. we all have regular jobs and profession. >> i'm a draftsman. >> how about you? >> unemployed right now. >> frank, what do you do for a living? >> i work for a heat treating company. i drive a truck for them. >> how about you? >> i'm a real estate negotiator. >> real estate negotiator. >> white collar all the way. >> you don't bring that with

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you, though, do you, when you are negotiating the real estate? >> no. >> what do you have in your home? >> smith and weston .9 millimeter? >> 12 gauge. >> i have a 16. >> at home? >> yeah. >> yep. at the ready. >> i don't agree with that because you have to worry about where your rounds are going. >> i know where they're going to go when i aim and shoot. >> whose idea was the calendar? >> probably would be kristin. a picture is worth a thousand words. a, it demonstrates a loyal sophistication. you wouldn't expect that out of militia. b, we're people, too. >> right. >> we had a lot of fun with it. >> it was a fundraiser and it showed that we're not so serious, you know. we're not these conspiracy nuts that wouldn't want our pictures to get out. it was a fun fundraiser, you know. >> i have had guns pretty much

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since i was old enough to have them. >> yeah. >> and i learned how to use them. you're silly. because -- because being a female, number one, i felt it was important to be able to protect myself by the best means possible. and one of those means is having a gun. when a criminal breaks into your house, who is the first person you are going to call? most people will call the police because they have guns. cut out the middleman. take care of your own family yourself. if you're not going to protect your family, who is? >> we're not racist. we're not extremists. we're not fundamentalists or terrorists or militants or other such nonsense. >> we're citizens. >> we're just concerned citizens. we have a desire to fill our duties as americans. and armed citizenry is part of that. ♪ ♪ hy i'm partnering with cigna

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- the tech industry is supposed in invention and progress. but only 11% of its executives are women, and the quit rate is twice as high for them. here's a hack: make sure there's bandwidth for everyone. the more you know. what do you grow here? >> right now there is tofu beans there, soybeans. >> you're a tofu farmer. >> yeah, food farmer.

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i grow food for people to eat, you know. no herbicides, no pesticides on that stuff. >> right. all natural. >> right. >> yeah, better. >> certified organic. >> healthier. >> yeah, basically. >> this is james nickels, the brother of terry nichols. james graduated from high school the same here i did in the district next to mine. on this farm in michigan mcvay and the nichols made practice bombs. >> u.s. attorneys linked the nichols brother of michigan with timothy mcvay. >> terry was convicted and receive add life sentence. timothy mcvay was executed. but the feds didn't have the goods on james, so the charges were dropped. >> i'm just glad -- i'm just glad to be out and free so i can

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get on with my life. >> did timothy mcvay ever stay here? >> yes. yes. he stayed here several times. the longest period about three months or so. he was a nice guy. >> decent guy? >> oh, yeah. so they didn't find anything on this farm? >> as to what? bomb making? yeah. i had dynamite fuse, black powder, sure. diesel fuel, fertilizer, but that is normal farm stuff. that was no way connected in any way to the oklahoma city bombing or bomb making. them people, law enforcement, if you want to call them that, were here and they were shaking in their shoes. they were physically shaking, scared to death. >> of? >> because they thought this was going to be another waco, because certain people, namely my ex-wife and other people, said i'm a radical.

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i'm a wild man. i got a gun under every arm, down every leg in every shoe, every corner of the house. you say anything to me, i'll shoot you. if the people find out how they have been ripped off and enslaved in this country by the government, by the powers to be, they will revolt with anger. merciless anger. when a government turns to radical, it is your duty to overthrow it. >> well, why not use ghandi's way? >> i'm not familiar with that. >> he didn't have any guns and he beat the british empire. >> our school has a bad habit of raising se ining psychos. >> they live in michigan across

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the bay from the nichols farm. eric harris who would later commit the massacre spent part of his childhood here. his dad flew planes during the gulf war. 20% of all the bombs dropped in that war were from planes that took off from here. i asked brent if he remembered anything about eric. >> i never knew him, but i knew of him. >> about the same age as you. >> yeah. like a friend of mine he knows him. he was in class with him. he's lived up here all my life. >> i went to school with him and it shocked me to hear it on the news, that's peshlly a kid from here would be doing that. >> i didn't last too long in this high school up here. i got kicked out. i got expelled. >> why was that? >> i had a run-in with a kid one time and i pulled a weapon on him, a gun. >> what kind?

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>> a .9 millimeter. >> so they kicked you out of school? >> yeah. they kicked me out for 165 days, whatever a school full year is. >> as a matter of fact, that's what my plans was, to move out to colorado. >> colorado? >> because i have family out there. as a matter of fact, one of my uncles is a janitor for columbi columbine. >> why was your name -- you mean they did a list of -- >> of the suspects. >> of students who potentially would call in a bomb threat after columbine? >> yes. >> i was like second or third on the list. >> why is that? >> because the whole fact is, like i said, this town really gets people down. >> why did they single you out? >> because i was a troubled kid. and, you know -- >> you were trouble in school? >> oh, yeah.

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>> but why did they put you on their list as number two of the students that could be a threat? come on. there must be a reason. >> well, okay. the thing is is i have a thing that's called the anarchist code book. it shows you how to make bombs. if anything went wrong, they would come to me first and i don't need that. >> just because you owned a copy of the book. you haven't made a bomb yourself. >> oh, i've made them. it was nothing big. it wasn't even as big as a pipe bomb. some make it a tennis ball bomb or something like that. out of the anarchist code book, the latest thing i built i think would have to be -- i think i made a five gallon drum of nepalm. >> kids knew that you were doing this? >> yeah. >> so you were number two on the list? >> yeah. >> who was number one? >> i don't know. they never told me that name which kind of made me mad.

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>> because you didn't make it to number one. >> i know it's kind of silly but, you know, i guess it had been a kind of ego thing knowing i was number one at something here even if it was a bomb threat list. >> do you believe it was right to blow up the building in oklahoma city? >> i'm not saying no. that's a good question. why was that building blowed up and who blew it up? >> if someone did it, it would be wrong? >> yes. >> it is wrong to take the lives of those people? >> yeah. i use the pen because the pen is mightier than the sword, which you always must keep a sword handy for when the pen fails. i sleep with a 44 magnum under my pillow. >> come on. that's what everyone says. is that true? >> it's true. >> if we were to go in the -- >> the whole world knows that. >> if we were to go look at your pillow right now, will you show

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us right now? >> he took me into his bedroom but told the camera to stay out. sure enough, there was a 44 magnum under his pillow. >> there it is. is it loaded? okay. i believe you. look at that. no, don't do that. don't put the gun to your head. geez. this thing is loaded. >> it's loaded. it's safe. you got to pull the trigger, pull the hammer and shoot it. >> put the hammer back. >> no one has a right to tell me i can't have it. that is protected on our constitution. >> where does it say a handgun is protected? >> no, gun. >> doesn't say gun. it says arms. >> arms. what is arms? >> could be nuclear weapon. >> that's right. it could be a nuclear weapon. >> do you think you have that right? should you have weapons grade plutonium. >> i don't want it? >> should you have the right if you want to have it.

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>> that should be restricted. >> so you do believe in some restrictions. >> well, there is whack koos ou there. there is whack koos out there. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the hours top stories. president trump tonight attending game five of the world series between the washington nationals and the houston astros. that came after the president earlier in the day announced that u.s. forces had killed isis leader. and in texas, the search continues for a gunman who opened fire at an off campus college party killing two people and injuring 14 others. now back to "bowling for columbine." ♪ happiness ♪ >> the town of virgin, utah has passed a law requiring all residents to own guns. ♪ bang bang ♪ shoot shoot

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♪ oh, yeah ♪ oh, yeah. >> kerry mcwilliams proudly displays the target he used to pass his shooting test. but the thing is he can't see it. he's blind. kerry has had a love affair with guns since he first got his hands on an m-16 as a teenager. >> i'm actually most comfortable with these old rifles. ♪ happiness ♪ bang bang ♪ shoot shoot ♪ happiness ♪ this is a great place to raise your children. it's a really great place to raise your kids. very close knit community we have here. everybody looks out for everybody. >> good people.

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>> good people. >> this just happens to be a place where two young men made very bad, very wrong decisions, and there has been international notoriety as a result of it. other than that, i don't know that it is any different than a whole lot of other suburban communities. good morning, mr. edwards, members of the word board. i would like to report i found the perfect location for our office. you can see i don't need this because south metro denver has about the same amount of sunshine and precipitation as southern california. it's so incredible, you are just going to have it see it for yourselves. how does this look, mr. edwards? ♪ we're south of denver in a

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community called littleton, and this house is pretty much your average, middle class suburban home. the burglar or the rapist is still here in the neighborhood somewhere. so citizens sometimes think -- >> where exactly is the burglar or rapist right now? if i was to try and stab you through this, you are going to have to be really close. >> right. and here is the bottom line on this. >> what if i had a spear? >> downstairs where the safe room is constructed. this is a solid door, very heavy door. now the criminal has to breakthrough this door. so you have created another barrier. >> an axe would do it. >> an axe would do it. >> i think columbine did a couple things. one is it changed how we talk. that's the first thing. >> okay. >> for instance, if i say columbine everybody knows what it means. i don't have to explain to you that columbine --

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>> what's wrong? >> nothing. >> what's wrong? >> i just sometimes -- it bothers me. i'll be fine. just a second. >> it's okay. >> there is something something overwhelming about that kind of viciousness, that kind of predatory action, that kind of indiscriminate killing. this facility where we're located right now and two other major facilities where our employees work are either in or very near littleton. so we have over 5,000 employees at these facilities. quite a number of whom live in

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middleton. many of whom who went to columbine high school. you can see what happened at columbine is a micro kos m around the world. is that how you lock heed martin feels? you are the biggest weapons maker, we are columbine? >> i think we probably embody that spirit that, yeah, we're all members of that community and it behooves us to assist each other. >> he told us that no one at littleton could figure out why the boys at columbine resorted to violence. >> why would kids do this? probably the root of it has to do with their anger about various issues. we became aware of a program that provides anger management program. so we made 100,0$100,000 contrin to the schools to give this

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training to both teachers and students learn alternative ways to deal with anger. >> so you don't think our kids say to themselves, well, gee, you know, dad goes off to the factory every day and, you know, he built missiles. these are weapons of mass decemb decemb destruction. what is the difference between that and here? >> i don't see that connection, that specific connection because the missiles that you are talking about were built and designed to defend us from somebody else who would be aggressors against us. societies ands countries and governments do things that annoy one another, but we have to learn to deal with that annoyance or that anger or that frustration in appropriate ways. we don't get irritated with somebody and just because we're mad at them drop a bomb or shoot at them or fire a missile at them. ♪

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♪

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b-52 bomber. the plaque proudly claims this plane killed vietnamese people on christmas eve 1972. it was the largest bombing campaign of the vietnam war. just outside the rocky flats, the largest plutonium weapons making plant in the world. a few miles away is norad, which oversees our nuclear missiles, many of which dot the colorado landscape. once a month lockheed transports its rockets through the town on its way to an air force base on the other side of denver. the rockets are transported in the middle of the night while the children of columbine are asleep.

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22 nato missiles fell on the village. deadly cargo was dropped on the residential part of the village. >> we're striking hard while making a deliberate effort to minimize harm to innocent people. >> on the hit list were local hospital and primary school. >> we all know there has been a terrible shooting at a high school in littleton, colorado. i hope the american people will be praying for the students, the parents and the teachers and we'll wait for events to unfold and then there will be more to say.

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>> a student hit in the spine at columbi columbine. >> shot in the head. >> we have automatic weapons, okay? >> the school is still under attack. >> we got a couple kids out in the hall that are shot. they're trying to get to them. do not let anybody else in until we tell them to. >> hi. it's nbc news. >> yes. >> we're calling about the school shooting. we're on the live here right now now on msnbc. can you tell us on the air? i mean, literally, i could put you through right now. >> he has gone to the library. he's in the building. he's in the build iing. >> i love your show. >> i'm so glad. thank you. >> we watch it every night. >> thank you. >> 911. >> yes. there was a shooting here with a

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gun. >> okay. has anybody been injured, ma'am? >> yes. yes. and the school is in a panic. and i am in the library. i've got -- another table is hit! heads under the table. okay. i saw a gun. i said what's going on out there? he shot at us. the kid standing there with him, i think he got hit. >> we've got help on the way, ma'am. >> oh, god. oh, god. >> he's shooting in the library right now, firing the shots at the library. >> firing shots in the library. >> okay. hold on here. >> okay. >> call the people and try to find out. >> okay. >> hi. it's wendy at cnn still. >> okay. we're just taking names and numbers now for the friends.

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>> fox has somebody on now. >> i know. we talked to a whole bunch of people and we've got so many more calls coming in. >> i have to get to my daughter. i can't get there. >> okay. calm down. okay? >> well, i think i need some information on where our children are. >> we have a lot -- >> i can't get anywhere near it. i want to find out how to get in touch with my daughter. how do i get information on my daughter? >> i don't have any of that information right now. >> why in the hell not? it's been over an hour. >> i'm afraid my son might be involved in the shooting. >> involved how? >> have you spoken to your son today, mr. harris? >> no, i haven't. >> they're still looking for suspects. your son is with who? what gang? >> well, they're called the crystal mafia.

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>> stay low and quiet. okay. stay very quiet. when the shooting was over, eric harris and dillon had killed 12 students and one teacher. dozens of others were wounded by the over 900 rounds of ammo that were fired. it is believed that the guns that they used were all legally purchased in stores and gun shows and many of the bullets were bought at the k-mart just down the street. >> his diary detailed ideas about hijacking an airplane and crashing into new york city. some may characterize that as fantasy. >> in the end, they turned the

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guns on themselves. >> and then he came into the library, shot everybody around me and put a gun to my head and asked if we all wanted to die? and we started hearing shots in the hall and then they came in and they all told under the desk, and we all got under the desk, and then -- they started coming in the library, opening fire, and -- >> we started screaming and crying and telling them not to shoot me. so they shot the girl. right in front of me. >> i have only five words for you. from my cold dead hands. >> ten days after the columbine kills, despite the pleas from a community in mourning, charlton heston came to denver and held a pro-gun rally for the national rifle association. >> good morning.

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thank you all for coming and thank you for supporting your organization. i also want to applaud your courage in coming here today. i have a message from the mayor, mr. wellington webb, the mayor of denver. [ boos ] he sent me this. it says, don't come here, we don't want you here. i say to the mayor, this is our country. as americans, we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. don't come here? we're already here. >> i am here today because my

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son daniel would want me to be here today. if my son daniel was not one of the victims, he would be here with me today. something is wrong in this country. when a child can grab a guns -- grab a gun so easily and shoot a bullet -- into the middle of a child's face, as my son experienced. something is wrong. but the time has come to come to understand that a tec-9 semiautomatic 30-bullet weapon

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like that that killed my son is not used to kill deer. it has no useful purpose. it is time to address this problem. >> we have work to do. hearts to heal. even to defeat and a country to unite. we may have differences, yes. we will again suffer tragedy almost beyond description. but when the sun sets on condition tonight, and forevermore, let it always set on "we the people." secure in our land of the free and home of the brave. i for one plan to do my part. thank you. >> when they have their convention in colorado a week, whatever, a month after columbine, that was just -- that was stupid. just don't do that. of course you have the right to, but what are you doing, you know? that's just upsetting whole city

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full of people, why would you do that? >> this is matt stone. he grew up in littleton and has fond memories of columbine. >> columbine, a crappy school, a bunch of crappy houses. matt and his friend, trey parker, found a way to take out their anger of being different in littleton and turn it not into carnage but into a cartoon. ♪ just another sunday morning in my quiet mountain town ♪ ♪ you can see your breath hanging in the air you see homeless people but you just don't care ♪ ♪ it's a sea of smiles in which we'd be glad to drown ♪ ♪ it's sunday morning in a quiet little whitebread redneck mountain town ♪ >> columbine is a normal high school in a normal suburb. >> painfully, painfully, painfully normal. absolutely, painfully, horribly

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average. littleton in general is -- i remember being in sixth grade. and i -- i had to take the math test to get into honors math in seventh grade. and they were like, don't screw this up, because if you screw this up, you won't get into honors math in seventh grade. if you don't get into honors math in eighth grade, ninth grade, eleventh grade, then you'll die poor and lonely. and that's it. you believe, in high school, and a lot of the kids, but the teachers and counselors and principals don't help things. they scare you into doing -- into conforming and doing good in school by saying, if you're a loser now, you're going to be a loser forever. so that with eric and dylan, right, call them fag. they're like, if i'm a fag now, i'm a fag forever. you wish someone could have grabbed them and gone, dude, high school's not the end of -- year and a half, year? >> a year. they were weeks away from graduation. >> yeah, you're done, you know? it's amazing how fast you lose

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touch with all those people. they just beat it in your head, as early as sixth grade, don't [ bleep ] up, because if you do, you're going to die poor and lonely, you don't want to do that. [ bleep ], whatever i am now, i'm that forever. of course it's completely opposite. tho losers in high school go on to do great things. the great ones in littleton are still back there in mediocrity. >> i guess we'll never know why they did it. but one thing adults should never forget, it still sucks being a teenager. and it really sucks going to school. >> what's your view on high school? >> i love it. i learn. i get hank on by bastards who hate me and the principally's [ bleep ]. >> what causes school violence? >> [ bleep ]. >> him? >> yeah. >> yes. and after columbine, it really sucked being a student in america.

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>> since last spring's shooting at columbine high, schools nationwide have extended zero tolerance policies, suspending and expelling students for all kinds of behavior considered unruly or warning signs of violence to come. this second grader in illinois was suspended for ten days for bringing a nail clipper to class. that's a weapon, his school said. >> elementary school suspended a first grader for pointing a chicken strip at a teacher in the cafeteria. the 8-year-old was fooling around with a friend at lunch when he pointed a breaded chicken finger at a teacher and then said "pow pow." >> pointed a folded piece of paper shaped like a gun and told his classmates he was going to kill them during a game of cops and robbers. >> if this isn't a warning sign, what is it? >> this virginia high school student spent a month out of classes, sent home for dyeing his hair blue. >> a high school honors student from michigan could be expelled later today. 17-year-old jeremy hicks wore a scottish bagpipers outfit to a

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junior mom that included a plaid kilt, a feathered hat, and a traditional knife. >> this landed a high school student in court. she wanted to start an anarchy club. >> time bombs out there ticking, waiting to go off, and there are many of them in every community. >> students in at least seven states have been suspended or arrested for talking about or planning plots of their own. >> it's almost like guerilla warfare. you don't know from which direction the enemy will be coming. ne? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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and can ensure positive learning environment for everyone. as this student's appearance demonstrates, having a lax policy about dress makes it easy for a student to conceal a weapon and makes it difficult to identify intruders on campus. a dress code can reduce weapons violations, relieve tensions between gangs, reduce disciplinary infractions, and

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generally improve the atmosphere of the school. our policy requires that students tuck in their shirts, making the belt line visible at all times. our students may not wear baggy pants or colors and insignias that are commonly associated with gang activity. this policy was a collaborative effort. >> yes, our children were indeed something to fear. they had turned into little monsters. but who was to blame? all the experts had an answer. >> angry, heavy metal subculture. >> where were the parents? >> violent movies. >> soft porn. >> video games. >> television. >> entertainment. >> satan. >> cartoons. >> society. >> toy guns. >> marilyn manson. >> marilyn manson. >> marilyn manson. >> marilyn manson. >> marilyn manson has canceled the last five dates of his u.s. tour out of respect for those lost in littleton, but the singer says artists like himself

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are not the ones to blame. >> this is perhaps the sickest group ever promoted by a mainstream record company. ♪ ♪ i'm not a slave to a god >> after columbine it seemed that the entire focus on why the shootings occurred was because the killers listened to marilyn manson. two years after columbine, manson finally returned to denver. >> the oz fest at mile high stadium brings marilyn manson to denver tomorrow. >> there were protests from the religious right. but i thought i'd go and talk with him myself. >> when i was a kid growing up, music was the escape. that's the only thing that had no judgments. you put on a record and it's not going to yell at you for dressing the way you do, it's going to make you feel about be about it. >> some will be so brash as to ask if we believe all who are

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here tonight will go out and commit violent acts. the answer is no. but does everybody who watches a lexus ad go and buy a lexus? no, but a few do. >> i definitely can see why they would pick me, because i think it's easy to throw my face on a tv because i'm, in the end, the poster boy for fear because i represent what everyone's afraid of, because i do and say what i want. >> marilyn manson can walk into our town and promote hate, violence, suicide, death, drug use, and columbine-like behavior, i can say, not without a fight you can't. >> the two byproducts of that whole tragedy were the violence and entertainment, and gun control. and how perfect that that was the two things that we were going to talk about with the upcoming election. and also then we forgot about monica lewinsky, we forgot about the president was shooting bombs

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overseas, yet i'm a bad guy because i sang some rock 'n' roll songs. and who was a bigger influence, the president or marilyn manson? i'd like to think me but i'm going with the president. >> the day couple line happened, the united states dropped more bombs on kosovo than any other day during that war? >> i do know that, but nobody said maybe the president had influence on this violent behavior. no that's not the way the media wants to take and it spin and turn it into fear, because then you're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's aids, there's murder. cut to commercial. buy the acura, buy the colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if a pimples a girl's not going to [ bleep ] you. it's a campaign of fear and consumption and that's what i think that it's all based on is the whole idea that, keep everyone afraid and they'll consume.

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and that's really as simple as it can be boiled down to. >> if you were to talk directly to the kids at columbine and the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now? >> i wouldn't say a single word to them, i would listen to what they have to say. that's what no one did. >> i'm nicole. >> i'm amanda. >> you went to columbine? >> yes. >> you're with eric and dylan? in their class? >> we were in their bowling class. >> their bowling class? >> yes. >> what's bowling class? >> an elective you can take for gym credit. >> where's the educational value of this? >> i guess there isn't really any. >> there's not. >> is there any -- >> i learned how to bowl a lot better, that's for sure. >> yeah. >> what were eric and dylan like? >> weird. >> yeah? >> i mean -- >> not very social. >> i didn't know who they were. >> not very social, just kept to themselves. >> how good of bowlers were eric

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and dylan? >> when we played them, all i remember is they were just like crazy. they would just like chuck it down there. throw the ball down there. didn't really care too much how they bowled. yeah, they didn't really care about their scores. >> what were the suspects doing the morning of attack? i told you that i'd heard they were bowling. that's the only thing i'm aware of. >> did dylan and eric show up that morning and bowl two games before moving on to shoot up the school? and did they just chuck the balls down the lane? did this mean something? >> um -- well, i guess they went to their favorite class. >> why wasn't bowling for warping the minds of eric and dylan? was it not just as plausible as blaming marilyn manson? after all, it was apparently the last thing they did before the massacre. but wait a minute. there's lots of bowling going on in other countries. and don't they listen to marilyn

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manson in germany, the home of sinister goth rock music? don't they watch the same violent movies in france? most of the violent video games are from japan. many people in america believe that it's the breakup of the family unit that's caused so many wayward youth to turn to violence. >> i'll run away and kill myself! how would you like that? you can't keep me here! >> but statistics show that there are more broken homes and divorce in great britain than in the u.s. >> it's official, fergie's marriage has ended! >> liberals contend it's all the poverty we have in america that causes all this violence. but the unemployment rate in canada is twice what it is here. of course, most people say it's because we americans have a violent history, a violent past. cowboys and indians. the wild west. a history of conquering and

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bloodshed. well, if that's all it takes to end up with such a violent society like we have in america, how do you explain this? yet in spite of all this, how many people are killed by guns each year? in germany, 381. in france, 255. in canada, 165. in the united kingdom, 68. in australia, 65. in japan, 39. in the united states?

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11,127. >> but that to me brings up an important question. what is so much different about americans? are we homicidal in nature? because in europe, in australia, most other free world countries, they don't have this. they don't have people who snap and go on murderous rampages. >> no, they're just like us. they have the occasional person that snaps and kills a lot of people. how about a british soccer game? >> every time that i bring up comparisons with other free world countries what i hear is, oh, our culture is so different, we're so different. as you said, they have violent video games. they have violent movies. they have alienated youth. they, like us, don't have prayer in schools. what is so radically different? what is it about us? >> what is it? >> what is it? >> what is it? >> what is it?

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of the ivory billed woodpecker. what??? no, no no no no. battery power runs out. lifetime retirement income from tiaa doesn't. guaranteed monthly income for life. nooooo! douglas! we're running dangerously low on beans. people love your beans, doug. they love 'em. doooooooooug! you want to go sell some tacos? progressive knows small business makes big demands. doug, where do we get a replacement chili pepper bulb? so we'll design the insurance solution that fits your business. it's a very niche bulb. it's a specialty bulb. (honk!) i hear you sister.

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that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time to unwind. a location to de-stress. an activity to enjoy. or the name of someone to talk to. to create a plan that works for you, visit cigna.com/mystressplan. cigna. together, all the way. now it's time for a brief history of the united states of america. hi, boys and girls. ready to get started? once upon a time there were people in europe called pilgrims. they were afraid of being persecuted. so they all got in a boat and sailed to the new world where they wouldn't have to be scared ever again. >> i'm so relaxed. >> i feel so much safer. >> as soon as they arrived they were greeted by savages and they got scared all over again, so they killed them all.

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you'd think wipes out a race of people would calm them down, but no, instead they started getting frightened of each other. so they burned witches. in 1775, they started killing the british so they could be free. and it worked. but they still didn't feel safe they passed a second amendment which said every white man could keep his gun. which brings us to the season yus idea of slavery. the white people back then were also afraid of doing any work, so they went to africa, kidnapped thousands of black people, brought them back to america, and forced them to work very hard for no money. and i don't mean no money like i work at walmart and make no money. i mean zero dollars, nada, zip. doing it that way made the u.s. the richest country in the world. did that calm the white people down? no way, they got even more afraid. because after 200 years of slavery black people outnumbered white people in many parts of the south. you can guess what came next. the slave people started

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rebelling. white people were freaking out. don't kill me, big black man! well, just in the nick of time samuel colt in 1836 invented the first firearm that fired without having to be reloaded. everybody was like, oh no! we're going on to die! the freed slaves took no revenge, they just wanted to live in peace. but you couldn't convince the white people of this. so they formed the ku klux klan. in 1871, the same year the klan became an illegal terrorist organization, another group was founded, the national rifle association. soon politicians passed one of the first gun laws, making it illegal for any black person to own one. it was a great year for america, the kkk and the nra. of course they had nothing to do with each other.

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one group promoted responsible gun ownership and the other shot and lynched black people. then a black woman refused to move to the back of the bus. all hell broke who's. black people started demanding their rights and white people had a major freaky meltdown. run away, run away! they ran fleeing to the suburbs where it was white and safe and clean. they went out and bought a quarter of a billion guns and put locks on the doors, alarmed on the houses, gates on the neighborhoods. they were safe and secure and snug as a bug. and everyone lived happily ever after. >> or did they? because if you turn on the evening news, america still seems like a pretty scary place.

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>> is he dangerous? what's he up to? >> what are you trying to pull, man? >> why are people scared? >> remember all the y2k scares? weren't we told that our very society was about to collapse because somebody forgot to type in a couple of digits on the computer? >> there's going to be mass chaos and confusion. >> tonight the countdown begins. all day store director rick smith watched consumers get y2k ready. >> batteries, lamp oil, generators. >> after sending the country into a panic, the clock struck midnight. and nothing happened. how about those killer bees that were going to attack america? >> we're almost certain they'll arrive this year. >> schmidt expects the africanized bees to reach texas, crossing arizona in two to three years, he's concerned because the killer bee is overly aggressive. >> they will follow you for half a mile. >> the bees never came.

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remember the first time you heard that someone had hidden a razor blade in an apple at halloween? before long kids were not permitted to go out in the dark on halloween and go trick-or-treating at strangers' homes. >> people say they won't give out candy on halloween, it's too dangerous and they're too scared. >> guess what? there never was any razor blade in the apple. in fact, only two kids in the past 40 years have been killed by halloween candy. both of this emwere poisoned on purpose by relatives. >> it was like a scene from a horror movie. this man was mowing his lawn when a fox darted out of the woods and attacked his riding mower. >> a warning about a popular weight loss supplement. what you don't know may kill you. >> you ride them every day, but in an instant an escalator can mangle you. >> why you may be riding a stairway to danger. >> you might want to take extra precautions, keep a low profile, don't go around dancing with a bunch of americans in the streets, make sure you don't

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draw a lot of attention to yourself and the fact that you're american. >> the nation's top doctor says 1 in 5 americans suffer some form of mental disorder. the surgeon general pleads with people to seek help now. >> the media, the corporations, the politicians have all done such a good job of scaring the american public, it's come to the point where they don't need to give any reason at all. >> today the justice department did issue a blanket alert. it was in recognition of a general threat we received. this is not the first time the justice department have acted like this. i hope it's the last. but given the attitude of the evildoers, it may not be. >> i just love these boulevards down here, you don't get this in most of l.a.

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>> how come whenever i'm out here, i turn on the 11:00 news and i hear, tonight in south central, a driv-by shooting? tonight in south-central, this, that, whatever? >> right. >> i mean, they're not making that up, are they? >> no, they're not making it up, but they're choosing what they're covering. if you turn on tv, on the news, what are you going to hear about? dangerous black guys, right? unnamed black guy, accused of some crime. >> right. >> you're going to see pictures of black guys doing bad things, hearing stories about black guys doing bad things. we've heard this our whole lives. >> the suspect is a black male in his 20s, a large afro, side burns, wearing a silver chain. >> police say the suspect is a black man, 6'1", 160 to 180 pounds, 35 years in age. >> suspect is a black male, age 16 to 18. >> the suspect is african-american. >> police say the black man -- >> the suspect -- the suspect --

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the suspect is a black man -- >> a black man -- >> susan smith drowns her two children, tells people a black guy stole the car, stole the kids. >> right. >> and everyone at first bought it. >> some guy jumped into her car with her kids in it, took off, a black guy, she says. >> black male? >> yes, ma'am. >> i told them i loved them, hollered i loved them. it's just a tragedy. >> the anonymous urban, which means usually black, male. comes by and does this. it's the excuse for all kinds of things. >> charles stewart, lawyer in boston, kills his pregnant wife, says a black guy did it, everybody buys it. >> black male, 6 feet tall. chuck and carol stewart robbed at gunpoint, the ultimate urban nightmare. >> the thing i love about this country, whether you're a psychotic killer or running for

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president of the united states, the one thing you can always count on is white america's fear of the black man. >> we've heard the stories on the news, in the papers, and they have killed people. killer bees, known as africanized bees. i'm scared. >> rosemary never expected a nest of africanized killer bees to shack up across the street. >> i'm terribly allergic to them. >> they're originally from southern and eastern africa. dr. care brought some to brazil and fried to mate them with the european bee but they got loose, took over, and moved to the southern united states. the main difference between a traditional honeybee and an africanized bee is aggressiveness. if i was to do this to an africanized bee's hive, i could have several hundred stings in a matter of minutes. danny self raises the kinder, gentler european bees. >> the only way you can tell the

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two of them is measuring body parts. >> the black community has become entertainment for the rest of the community. >> meaning what? >> the entertainment being that the crime of the day, if it bleeds it leads. gets to be the front story. then that becomes the perception and the image of an entire people. which couldn't be further from the truth, in my opinion. in fact, you'll find, i think most african-americans are quite averse to gun possession. in suburbia, there's some notion there's going to be an invading horde come from either the city or from someplace unknown to savage their suburb ban community. to me it not only is bizarre, but it's totally unfounded. and these pistols, curiously enough, weren't being taken off of kids in the city of flint, but were being taken off of kids

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out in the out-county area, in the suburban communities. and -- >> i didn't think that's what you were going to say. i thought you were going to say black kids in the inner-city schools have these guns. >> no, we've never really had many problems with the guns in the city. not to say we haven't, we've had some. but that's never been the biggest problem. the biggest problem has been the gun possession by these adolescents in suburbia. >> how did you get a gun? >> i stole mine. >> where from? >> from a friend of mine. >> where'd he get it? >> his dad owns guns. >> what were you doing? >> went to detroit, started selling them. i can get a buck 50 a pop for a 9 millimeter. >> who are you trying to sell them to? >> anybody, mostly gangs and stuff like that. >> gangs in the city? >> yeah. >> black? >> predominantly. >> so you're okay? >> yeah, i'm free now,

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completely clear. >> you can keep some guns? >> i can't keep selling guns, everybody knows me. people want guns or drugs or alcohol, they come to my house, it's too much. >> too much hassle? >> yeah. >> my favorite statistic in all the research i did discovered that the murder rate had gone down by 20%. the coverage, that is, how many murders are on the evening news, it went up by 600%. >> the american people are conditioned by network tv, by local news, to believe that their communities are much more dangerous than they actually are. for example, here in this community, crime has decreased every year for the past eight years. yet gun ownership, particularly handgun ownership, is on the increase. >> crime rates have been dropping. dropping, dropping. fear of crime has been going up, up, up. how can that be possible? it doesn't make any sense. but it makes perfect sense when

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you see what we're hearing from politicians and seeing in the news media. >> we're right here on the foreign of florence and normandy. xwrs f ground zero for the l.a. riots. a couple of white guys walk around south central, they're going to get killed, which i can tell you is a common perception. the odds that something's going to happen to us are really, really slight. minuscule. >> right, okay. >> but you know, if you look up there, you get a different symbol of the hollywood sign. it means something very different than the corner of florence and normandy for most americans and most of the world. it means glamor and hollywood, except we can't see it. >> i can't see the hollywood sign, where is it? >> you can't see it because of something that's probably much more dangerous for us right now, which is the stuff we're breathing. >> the muse that's blocking the hollywood sign, we're breathing this. >> right. >> that's far more dangerous than all the other stuff the

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media's telling a trade of. >> right. >> as we left the corner of florence and normandy, i noticed a number of helicopters had appeared in the sky. within seconds the news media started to arrive. so what's the story? >> i thought you would know. >> i don't know anything. >> somebody told me a guy with a gun. they're not sure, that's all they told me. >> right. >> no action, just getting the camera down. >> seeing the chopper, we're going to another story. >> what story? >> a near drowning. >> how about the story that you can't see the hollywood hills because of the pollution? could you maybe do a story on that tonight? >> pollution, that's probably good. you can't see anything around here. >> if you had to choose between a guy with a gun and a near browning of a baby, which would you rather do? >> you go with the gun, always. go with the gun. >> all over here? all over? >> not yet. >> not yet? >> just waiting for these sergeants down here to come down. they got all the details.

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>> okay. hey, i'm wondering, i just got to l.a. today. i can't see the hollywood sign in the hills there, down normandy, because of the pollution. >> right. >> is there anybody you can go and arrest for polluting the air? >> absolutely not. >> nobody? >> no. >> why is that? why is that, sergeant? for what . nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ pacifica: ted! goin' oneighbor: yes. takin' it off road station wagon? you know it's an suv! i know for fact your suv does not suck. why is that? it ain't got that vacuum in the back! we got to go. ♪ vacuum in the back, hallelujah! ♪

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i'm marlie hall with the hour's top stories. house speaker nancy pelosi is calling for a briefing on the operation that killed isis leader abu bakr al baghdadi after congressional leaders weren't notified ahead of time, standard procedure in these types of actions. president trump said he feared leaks. a state of emergency has been declared over wildfires raging in northern california. now back to "bowling for columbine." for over a decade there has been one show on television that has consistently brought black and white people together in an effort to reduce our fears and celebrate our diversity. that show is "cops." i went to see a former producer of "cops" and executive producer of "world's wildest police videos," mr. dick hurlan.

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>> look "liberal" up in the dictiona dictionary, i think my picture's in there somewhere. >> so then why not be compelled to do a show that focuses on what's causing the crime as opposed to just chasing the criminals down? >> because i think it's harder to do that show, i don't know what that show would be. >> anger does well, hate does well, violence does well. tolerance and understanding and trying to learn to be a little different than you were last year does less well. >> does less well in the ratings? >> oh yeah. >> maybe because we in the television business, we tend to demonize black and hispanic people, then those watching it at home are going, i don't want to help those people, i'm not going to do anything to help them, i hate them now because they may hurt me. you know what i'm saying? >> i know what you're saying. i'm not sure that's what we're doing. i'm not sure we're demonizing black and hispanic people. particularly, i don't think we show black and hispanic people

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as being criminals. i'd like to say not more often, but probably they are more often, but -- i certainly don't think we're -- we're certainly not trying to demonize black and hispanic people. >> we show them on the news, we show them on tv as pretty scary people. >> yeah. and i agree. i'd like to see that reversed as much as possible. i -- >> start tonight. >> well, the thing is i don't know how to start tonight. i don't -- i don't know how to tell that story. if i knew -- if i was smart enough to do that -- >> i'll pitch you one, okay? >> all right. >> do a show called, not "cops," but "corporate cops." ♪ corporate man we're coming to get you better run while you can ♪ >> i love the idea. i don't think it would make very interesting reality tv. unless we can get those people to get in their suvs and drive

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really fast down the road away from the police -- >> but i'm telling you, everyone in america who's got your basic, everyday job is going to love watching the boss being chased down the street with his shirt off, thrown to the ground, a knee to the neck, i'm telling you, that is going to get ratings. >> yes, i'm with you. if i can find a police outfit that would prosecute corporate criminals appropriately and would go after them appropriately, in other words, what you do to a man who's just stolen a lady's purse with $85, then you need to do an appropriate response to a man who's just stolen $85 million from indigent people, then boy, we're going to be out there filming that. as a matter of fact, when police go after the guy who's just stolen $85 million, they treat him like he was a member of the city council, as he may or may not be. and it's not exciting television. if you could get that guy to take his shirt off? >> right, yeah. >> and throw his cellular phone at the police as they come

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through the door? try to jump out that window? then we'd have a show. you watch violence on tv in a place like canada and you know it's not happening next door. you watch it here, and you know it is happening next door. >> right. >> i think that's -- i don't know what the difference is but there's a big difference. >> why isn't it happening in canada? why aren't there 10,000 murders a year? >> i don't know but i want to go to canada to retire because it sounds like where we want to be. i'd like to find out what that difference is, wouldn't you? >> yeah, yeah. i'm trying to find out. >> where are you supposed to be right now? >> school. >> school. >> school. >> aren't you worried about what you're not learning? >> nah, i'm mostly helping everybody else in the class, then i barely get to do my work. >> how about you? not worried about your education? >> i've got the textbook. >> why do you think we have so many gun murders in america?

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>> i have no idea. people must hate each other there or something. >> you mean canadians don't hate each other? >> we do, but we don't go to the point of shooting somebody just to get revenge. >> what do you do? >> i don't know, tease them, maybe. maybe fun of them, ridicule them. >> throw eggs at them. >> eggs? >> eggs. >> how many gun murders here this year? >> none. >> last year? >> i believe we had one at the time. >> year before that? >> i can't recall what we had. >> maybe one in the last three years? >> probably, yes. >> uh-huh. >> very low. very low for this city. >> uh-huh. >> well, of course there's no murders here because there's only 70,000 people. and it's the kissing capital of the world. so i went down the river to another canadian city that was five times as large as sarnia, windsor, ontario -- across the river from detroit. i was sure there would be more murders in windsor. ever heard of anyone being shot

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by a gun in windsor? >> no. no. >> you remember any murders here? >> uh -- there was one, a long time ago, probably -- >> how long ago? >> oh -- -- >> in your lifetime? >> in my lifetime, probably 15, 20 years ago there was one murder. >> in fact this windsor policeman told me the only gun murder he could recall in windsor in the last three years was committed by a guy from detroit, who had a stolen gun from minnesota. with nearly 400,000 people in the windsor area, there were simply no canadians shooting other canadians. i thought it might be time for some fun facts about canada. i hit the streets of new york to find out what the average american thought about our friendly neighbor to the north. >> canadians don't watch as much violent movies as americans do. >> that's wrong, hordes of young

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boys all throughout canada eagerly await the next hollywood bloodbath. >> then the guy gets his leg tooken off. >> and there's a lot of girls. naked at one point. >> yeah, i like that stuff. >> what movie did you see? >> "sixth day." >> arnold schwarzenegger? >> yeah. >> did it make you want to come out and play this shoot 'em up game? >> yeah. >> there's no poverty in canada like there is here. in the states. >> wrong again. >> actually, we have also had a much higher unemployment rate. when michigan was 4%, we were 8%, 9%. we have an institutional unemployment rate. >> i think there's mostly white people in canada. >> hm, that's strange. when i'm in canada, i see black people everywhere. and yellow people. and brown people. and 13% of the country is nonwhite. so the canadians are pretty much just like us. the reason that they have so few

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murders has to be because they've got so few guns. what kind of gun dozen you own? >> i hunt. i own rifles and shotguns, i own pistols. >> how many guns total? >> probably about seven. >> seven guns? do you have a gun? >> i have a few guns. >> how many guns do you have? >> half a dozen. >> you could name how many people right now that own guns that you know? >> two, three, a dozen? more than that. >> there's a tremendous amount of gun ownership. we're a large country geographically, we grew up with hunting and fishing being a tradition. >> canada, a population around 30 million, there's about 10 million families, best estimate in the region of 7 million guns. wow, canada was one gun-loving, gun-toting, gun-crazy country. >> i can buy a gun any time i want. >> i see you're a glock owner.

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where can i get a glock in canada? >> most gun stores if you have the proper permits and stuff. >> in fact, despite all their tough gun laws, take a look at what i, a foreign citizen, was able to do at the local canadian walmart. >> where's the ammunition? >> back here. what kind are you looking for? >> you know, bullets. >> that's right, i could buy as much live ammunition as i wanted to in canada. >> you take american? do you lock your doors? >> no. >> are you afraid of anything? >> no, not really, no. >> do you lock your doors at night? >> no. >> you don't lock your doors? >> no. >> what -- are you afraid of anything? >> not really. >> have you ever been broken into? >> yes, i have. >> what happened? >> they broke into my home. i wasn't there. they broke in.

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they stole some booze, cigarettes. they left. i figured must have been teenagers out to have a little bit of fun and that's all they took. just some booze, cigarettes. >> have you ever been a victim of crime? >> yes. >> what kind of crime? >> i've had people walk in while i've been sleeping, and vandalize my home and steal from me. >> and that didn't want to make you lock your doors at night? >> nope. nope. >> as an american with three locks on his doors, i found this all a bit confusing. even here in toronto, a city of millions, people just didn't lock their doors. you don't lock your doors, but the americans do. why is that? >> it must be -- you must be afraid of your neighbor. >> you ever leave your doors unlocked at home? >> yes. >> yeah. >> you do? >> where do you live? you leave your doors unlocked? >> yeah. >> you think as americans that the lock is keeping people out of your place. we as canadians see it more as

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when we lock the door, we're imprisoning ourselves inside. >> you don't want to do that? >> not really, no. we don't want to -- no. >> i decided to go unannounced to a neighborhood in toronto to see if this unlocked door thing was true. >> oh -- hi, sorry, just checking. oh -- hello. oh -- hi. nobody locks their doors. hey, nobody locks their doors in this town. >> no -- you want to knock? >> no, no. you like living here? >> very much. >> the t-shirt? >> the t-shirt too. >> this door was wide open. you're not afraid? >> should i be afraid? >> i don't know, you live here. >> no, i'm not afraid. >> thank you very much. >> no problem. >> i'm sorry about the intrusion. >> no problem. >> thank you for not shooting

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me. >> no problem, no, no, no. >> as an american, i got to say, this all seemed kind of strange. until i looked up at the tv in the bar and noticed what they watch for their evening news. >> they're friends of ours, we'll listen to them courteously, but you don't just make war just because someone says so. >> night after night the canadians weren't being pumped full of fear. their politicians seem to talk funny. >> make sure they have proper day care that they have assistance for their parents when they're elderly, that they have proper health care that ensures they won't lose their business or their house because they can't afford their medical bills. that's how you build good society. >> no one wins unless everyone wins. you don't win by beating up on people who can't defend themselves. in north america they pick on the people that can't defend themselves, turning around and giving tax benefits to people that don't need them.

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>> where are the i think dij gent in the city? where do they live? >> indigent? >> you act like you've never heard the word before. >> we don't have that problem here, really. >> i asked him, could you at least take me to a canadian slum? well -- this is what a ghetto looks like in canada. >> this is the same mentality that says with canadians, you think if somebody gets sick they should actually be able to have health care? >> oh, definitely. >> yes. >> definitely. >> why? >> because! >> human right. everyone's got the right to live. >> you just came out of the emergency room? >> yes. >> how much did you have to pay for your treatment? >> i wouldn't know what the bill is, it's covered by our hospital plan. >> you're telling me you don't have to pay anything? >> no, i don't. >> i have family that lives in the states. used to live in canada, moved over there. it's so different. >> they get afraid more easily? >> oh, yeah. yep. very much so.

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because everybody reacts over there just like that. they don't stop and think. first reaction is pull the gun out. you're on my property. you know, like -- i don't know. it's just different over here. >> where do you live? >> detroit. >> detroit? >> yeah. >> come over to canada for the night? >> right. >> people are a little more open-minded, a little more welcoming. >> feel any difference when you cross over to this country? be honest now. >> it's a lot lighter. >> the segregation over there is definitely more intensified. >> in the united states? >> intensified in the states, yeah. you can feel it. >> they just let you be. >> that's canada for you. >> every time i turn on the tv in the states it's always about a murder here, a gunfight. >> i just think the states, their view of things is fighting. that's how they resolve everything. if there's something going on in another country, you know, they send people over to fight it.

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canada's more just like, let's negotiate. let's work something out. where the states is, we'll just kill you and that will be the end of that. >> if guns were -- if more guns made people safer, then america would be one of the safest countries in the world. it isn't. it's the opposite. d. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions.

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i need an ambulance immediately. >> please. is she breathing? >> no, she's not. >> where's the child? >> she's in the the office. >> where was she shot? >> i can't tell. >> i heard that 911 call on tv some place. it was horrible. >> he said he's gone. i i need some hp. >> the the girl was in there too. she was on the floor. >> police and the medics came? >> the medics were here. they had just come in and i remember him stepping in the room and said you have to leave. when they came in, you're no

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longer in control. >> back in my hometown of flint, michigan, a 6-year-old first grade boy had found a gun at his uncle's house where she was staying because his mother was being evicted. he brought the gun to school and shot another first grader. the 6-year-old kayla roland. with one bullet that pass ed through her body, she fell to the floor and laid there dying while her teacher called 911 for help. no one knew why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl. as if the city had not been thus enough tragedy in the past two decades, it was not home to a new record. the youngest school shooting ever in the united states. on the morning of the shooting, it only took the news helicopter and satellite trucks a half hour to show up on the scene.

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>> about 7:00 there will be a public memorial service. we're expecting hundreds of people. they will mourn the loss of little kayla a a tiny girl who loved pizza, teddy bears and was taken away much too soon. >> good morning, the funeral home passing out tens of thousands of these pink ribbons to support the girl's family. today will be an emotional day. >> nice job. >> we're having technical problems. don't tuk me about it. call our truck. i need a haircut. here we go. >> some too choked up to speak about it, this is a memorial

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scheduled here for 7:00 tonight. we're live this afternoon, jeff ross, q 13 reports. thauk. >> want some hair spray? >> i kind of need it, don't i? i have some i just didn't have a chance. >> we have the color picture. plenty of media here that covered columbine. there are some networks that go from tragedy to tragedy. and i feel bad for them. because that's all they see. tragedy. we are trunying to crunch right now. today we're feeding cnn and fox. >> the national media had never visited buell elementary or the school district or this part of flint ever before.

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and few, if any, of these reporters bothered to visit it even when they were here now. it they had ventured just a block away from the school or the funeral home, they might have seen a different kind of tragedy that perhaps would contain some answers as to why this little girl was dead. for over 20 years this impoverished area in the oklahoma town of the world's largest corporation had been ignored as completely as it had been destroyed. with 87% of the students living below the official povrly line, buell and flint did not fit into the accepted story line put forth pit the media. that being the one about america and its invincible economy. the number one cause of death among young people in flint was homicide.

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the football field in flint was sponsored by a funeral home. the kids have won 13 state track championships, but they have never had a home track meet because around the football field all they have is this dirt ring. years ago someone here named the streets in this part of town after all the ivy league schools as if they dreamed of better days and something greater for themselves. >> the children are doing well. faculty and staff are doing well, but we don't forget. we don't forget. it's --

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>> it's okay. it's okay. i'm sorry. >> that's all right. >> from my cold, dead hands. >> just as he did after the columbine shooting, charlton heston showed up in flint to have a big pro-gun rally. >> freedom has never seen greater peril nor needed you more eagerly than now. >> reporter: before he came to flint, he was interview ed abou kayla's death and even his own nra website talked about it. >> weed to let the nra know we haven't forgotten about kayla. it's like they are rub ibing ou

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nose in it. i was shocked. and identity palled they could come here. >> he was asked white he came to flint after the tragedy. what did the nra have to say about 6-year-olds using guns. >> we spend $21 million every year and we teach it to 5 and 6-year-olds who say if you see a gun, don't touch it. leave the room. call an adult. >> moses himself showed up himself. >> right here in the city of flint? >> right here. >> were there people that wanted you to try the child as an adult? >> oh, yeah. there were people from all over america that wrote and called. it was amazing to me groups affiliated with the nra. a horrible thing i had

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admonished homeowners in our country. it was racism and hate and anger. it was ugly. >> sthafs a picture brought back here to the office. about 15 minutes after the shooting took place gave him some crayons to occupy him a little bit. he came over and drew that picture for me because at the time i had pictures that my children had drawn and he wanted to draw many one. that's him at his house. >> why did you decide to hang on it? >> because of the gravity of the situation. he asked me to hang that behind my desk. i put it in a frame and that's

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where it will stay. >> the mother of the 6-year-old boy, in order to get food stamps and health care for her children, she was forced to work as part of the state of michigan's welfare to work program. this program was so successful in tossing poor people off welfare its founder was soon hired by the number one firm in the country that states turn to to privatize their welfare systems. that firm was lockheed martin. with the cold war over and no enemy left to frighten the public, they found the per fekt way to profit from people's fears with an enemy much closer to home. poor, black mothers. >> you have a one-parent family and the mother is traveling 60 miles away to go to work. how does that help a community? but that's part of the state

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making parents responsible. >> welfare to work. >> that's a program that ought to be stopped. because it really has no merit. i think it adds more to the problem than it does to solve t it. >> your the sheriff and you feel this way? >> i do. i wish i could put two parents in every home and make them equally responsible, but you can't do that. we're not doing anything by taking a one parent and putting them on a bus and sending them out of town to make $5.50 an hour. >> this is the bus that she was forced to ride every day in order to work off the welfare money the state had given her. she and many others would make the 80-mile round trip journey every day to oakland county, one of the wealthiest areas in the country. she would leave early in the morning and return late at night rarely seeing her young

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children. >> what's the point of having that? where does the state benefit? we have a child dead. i can bet maybe it's part of the problem. you drove the one parent out. you or anybody else that can tell me that that best serves a community, i shake my head and wonder why. >> how long you been riding the bus? >> i've been working here just about three years now. my brother, my brother is working here, half my neighborhood works out here. just about everybody i know personally works out here. in flint, doing the same thing i'm doing now they only pay minimum page. i come 40 miles to make $3 or 4 more an hour. i make $8.50 an hour. >> does that pay the bills? >> no. >> did you know the woman whose

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son shot the little girl? i think she rode this bus. >> i know her a little bit, not real good. >> nice lady? >> she came to work every day. she worked two jobs. he was trying to make ends meet. >> this is where she worked one of her two jobs. >> she was she worked in this had room here as a bartender, making drinks, making shakes, desserts. >> was she a good employee? >> she was. she also worked in the mall here. >> dick clark is an american icon. the man who brought rock and roll into our homes every week on american bandstand. >> you can link up to a part of music usually. as dick says, it's the sound track of our lives.

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>> his restaurant and the fudge ri here applied for special tax breaks because they were using welfare people as employees. even though she worked up to 70 hours a week at these jobs in the the mall, she did not earn enough to pay her rent. one week before the shooting was told by her landlord he was evicted her. with nowhere to go and not wanting to take her children out of school, she asked her brother if they could stay with him for a few weeks. it was there that her son found a small 32 caliber gun and took it to school. she did not see him take the gun to school because she was on a state bus to go serve drinks and make fudge for rich people. i decided to fly out to california to ask dick clark what he thought about a system that forces poor single mothers to work two low-wage jobs to

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survive. >> i'm doing a documentary on the school shootings and guns and all that. in my hometown of flint, michigan, this little 6-year-old shot a 6-year-old. >> get in the car. i'm sorry. we're really late. >> the mother of the kid who did the shooting works at the all-american grill in oakland county. it's a welfare to work program. these people are forced -- >> come on. >> you want you to help me to convince the governor that the welfare to work. these women are forced to work. they have kids at home. these women are forced to work they have kids at home up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ nyquifor your worst cold andrful relieflu symptoms,

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the poor were not a priority. after 2001, correcting america's social problems took a backseat to fear, panic and a new set of priorities. >> one way to express our unity is for congress to set the mull tear budget to the defense of the united states as a number one priority and fully fund my request. >> we have been selling a of the of chemical suits and gas masks. >> they have been stock up

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supplies. >> weapons, ammunition. >> after zept zept, gun sales surged 70%. ammunition up 140%. in dallas they are already taking shots at osama bin laden. >> in the months following the 9/11 attack, we americans were gripped in the state of fear. none of us knew if we would die at the hands of the evil doers or who might be sitting next to a crazy guy tries to light his shoes on fire. the threats seemed very real. >> just trying to protect myself and my family. >> growing fears r were turned into a handsome profit for many. most of people he talks to still uneasy over the terrorist attacks. >> it's because a lot of people are making a a lot of money off of fear. and so there's vested interests, a lot of activity to keep us

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afraid. >> what better way to fight box cutter wielding terrorists to order a record number of fighter jets from lockheed. everyone felt safer. the greatest benefit of all of a terrorized public is that the corporate political leaders can get away with just about anything. >> i have never seen a better example of cash and carry government than this bush administration and enron. >> there were a lot of things i didn't know after the world trade center attack, but one thing was clear. whether it was before or after september 11th, a public that's this out of control with fear should not have a lot of guns or ammo laying around. >> i was shot with a tech 9. >> 9 millimeter? >> yeah.

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i guess it was supposed to be semiautomatic, but it seemed fully automatic to me. >> this is richard. and this is mark taylor. both of these boys were shot the day of the columbine massacre. richard is paralyzed for life and in a iwheelchair. and mark is barely standing after numerous operations. >> the kids at columbine had to pay a penalty. we paid a penalty that day for this nation. the way we look at it. >> they were disabled and suffering from the 17 cent kmart bullets still embedded in their bodies. as they showed me the entry points, i thought of one way to reduce the number of bullets laying around. i asked the boys if they'd like to go to kmart to return the merchandise.

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>> hi, we're here to see mr. conway. >> you need to turn the camera off. >> all right. turn it off. >> how are you? >> i'm the director of media relations for kmart. how can i help you today? >> i'm here today. this is richard. >> nice to meet you. >> this is mark taylor. and they are students from

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columbine high school. they were shot at columbine in the massacre with bullets from kmart. >> they have come a long way. >> just thinking since you st stopped selling the handguns. it kind of makes sense to stop selling the bullets. >> our request is you get rid of the bullets and don't sell them. >> we do carry -- we ahopefully are shoppers of our stores. we do only carry sporting firearms and the accessories that go with hunting. we'll certainly take your mess aage to our chairman and ceo. he's not here today. >> he's not here today? >> he's not here this whole week. >> do you have a limit on the number of ammunition people can purchase? >> i can't answer these questions. i'm not the merchandiser. >> can we speak to that person?

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>> i can get answers to those questions if it you'd like to leave your card and i can can get your absentees. >> we don't want to leave a card. mark here has a kmart bullet an inch away from your aorta. >> in between my aorta and spine. >> i'm glad to see you're able to stand. >> i told him somebody here would listen. somebody would take the requests seriously. not just a pr person, but someone with authority to answer some of the questions that they want answered. >> kmart does care about this. but i can't go any further right now. until i make a call, i'm going to go back to my office and see if there's anyone. >> she went back upstairs. two hours later, she brought down this guy whose job it is to buy the bullets for kmart. >> stay out of trouble. >> we're not the ones in

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trouble. >> mark thought he would show him his bullet wounds. >> those are his bullet holes from your bullets. that's where where they went in. >> is anybody else going to come down? is that it? >> let me check. >> thank you. >> we waited around a couple more hours but no one else came down. as we left the building, mark came up with an idea. he suggested we go to the nearest kmart and buy out all their bullets. >> just take as many as you can. >> what else do we have over here? you have three, i'll take everything you got. >> you're 17? >> mark pretty much cleaned them out of their ammunition. the next day we decided to go fwook kmart headquarters with

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all the bullets. this time we brought the press. >> our coverage of michigan continues now with all news stories. >> coming up, a warning to everyone to watch out for snakes. you'll hear from a mom who was bitten by a rattlesnake. students who survived the columbine massacre are in town and awning ri with kmart. >> we're here to see the chairman of kmart. how you doing? >> it's a pleasure to see you. >> here's the 9 millimeters. these are the bullets in both richard and in mark's body right now. >> i'll have someone here in five minutes. don't block the door. >> somebody will come out. >> i'm the vice president of

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communications for kmart. i'm happy to deliver a statement on behalf of the company. what happened in columbine, colorado, was truly tragic and touched every american. we're sorry for the disadvantage to this young man. kmart is phasing out the sale of handgun ammunition. the business plan calls for this to be continmplete in the continental u.s. within the next 90 days. kmart representatives met with mr. moore and the students from columbine yesterday and listened to their concerns about the product carried in kmart stores. the company committed at the end of that meeting that kmart would have an answer for them in a week's time. >> the first thing we want to do is thank you for committing to no longer selling handgun ammunition in your stores. and within 90 diays. >> the phrase will be phased out. >> no more selling of ammunition

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to handguns or assault weapons? >> firearm ammunition will be illegal in our stores. >> we greatly appreciate that. >> thank you very much. >> this is great. >> wow, that blows my mind. that's more than when we asked for. >> that's remarkable. >> like i told you, did you think that? b. >> the kids scored a victory against kmart and it inspire d e to do something i knew i had to do. all i needed was a star map. a ? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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here's the hour's top stories. the president announced the u.s. military killed isis leader in an overnight raid in syria. and congresswoman katie hill resigned amid-aegs allegations with an affair with a staffer. she admitted to having an inappropriate relationship with a woman on her campaign staff. now back to "bowling for columbine."

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>> hello? >> this is michael moore. the film maker. >> yerks of course. >> how you doing? >> fine, thank you. >> i was wondering if i could talk to you. we're making a documentary about the whole fwun issue. i'm a member of the nra. i thought maybe we could talk about it. >> let me look at my calendar and i may be able to give you some time tomorrow. i have some people here now. hold the phone. >> thank you. >> i could give you a little time tomorrow morning. that's thursday. >> yes. >> let's say 8:30. >> just come here? >> yeah. >> okay, good. >> hello? >> it's michael moore here to see charlton heston.

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>> hi. good morning. how are you? >> thank you very much for agreeing to see me. >> he took me out to his pool and tennis house so we could have a chat. i told him i was a lifetime member of the nra sand showed hm my membership card. >> good for you. well done. i assume you have guns in the house. >> indeed i do. >> so you have them for protection. >> yeah, sure. >> have you ever been a victim

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of crime? >> no. >> never been assaulted. no violence toward you? >> no. >> they are loaded? >> you really need a weapon for self-defense, you need it loaded. >> why do you need it for self-defense? >> i don't. >> you have never been a victim of crime. >> that's crew. >> so why don't you unload the gun? >> because the second amendment gives me the right to have it loaded. >> i totally agree with that. the second amendment -- >> it's a comfort factor. >> it gives you comfort to know this is a loaded gun. >> meaning you feel safe? >> not worry. i'm not really, but i'm exercising one of the rights passed on down b to me from the wise guys that invebted this country. if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

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i choose to have it. >> what strikes me as interest ing is in other countries where they don't have the murder rate that we have that many people say, that's because they don't have guns around. it's hard to get a gun in britain or germany. but we went to canada and there's million guns in 10 million homes. >> there won't be long. >> hear me out. canada is a nation of hunters. millions of guns. yet they had just a few murders last year. that's it. a country of 30 million people. he's my question. why is it that they have all these guns lying around yet they don't kill each other at the level we kill each over 37. >> i think american history has a lot of blood on its hands. >> and german history doesn't? >> i don't think as much. >> germans don't have as much? >> they do, yes. >> the brits, they ruled the

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world for 300 years at the barrel of a gun. they are all violent people. they have bad guys, crime, lots of guns. >> that's an interesting point, which can be explored and you're good to explore it at great lengths. but i think that's about all i have to say on it. >> you don't have an opinions to why that is? the only country that does this that kills each other on this level? >> well, we have probably more mixed ethnicity than other countries. >> you think it's an ethnic thing? >> i wouldn't go so far as to say that. we had enough problems with civil rights in the beginning. but i have no answer. >> what do you mean it's a mixed ethnicity. i don't understand. >> you said how is it that so many americans kill each other. i don't know that's true.

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>> you know that. we have the highest murder rate with guns. it's way higher that be any orr country. >> the only answer is the one i already gave you. which is that we have a history of violence. perhaps more than most countries. not more than russia or japan. >> not more than germany. >> but certainly more than canada. >> i come from flint, michigan. last year a little 6-year-old boy took a gun to a classroom and shot and killed a 6-year-old girl. it was a really a tragic thing. >> this was kids? >> did you hear about this? >> yeah. >> here's my question. after that happened, you came to flint and held a big rally. >> so did the vice president. >> but did you feel it was being at all insensitive to the fact?

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>> i wasn't aware of that at the time we came. we came in the early morning rally and went on to wherever we were going. >> you didn't know at the time this killing had happened? had you known -- >> would i have cancelled? >> it wasn't like television already planned. the choice to come there was made after this horrible killing took place. had you known that, would you have come? >> i don't know. i have no idea. >> maybe not. you think you'd like to maybe apologize to the people in flint for coming and doing that at that time? >> you want me to apologize to the people in flint? >> or the people in columbine for come iing after their horri tragedy. why do you do go to the places that have horrible tragedies? i'm a member of your group here. >> i'm afraid we don't agree on

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that. >> you think it's okay to come and show up at these events. you don't think it's okay. >> mr. heston, one more thing. this is who she is. or or was. this is her. please don't leave. please take a look at her. this is the girl.

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>> i left the estate atop beverly hills and walked back to the real world. and america living and breathing in hefear. >> you imagine somebody might break into your house to harm you or your family. what does that person look like? >> you. her. him. camera guy. it could be anybody. could be a gun in the camera. >> gun sales were at an all-time high. and where in the end it all comes back to bowling for columbine.

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>> three employees shot to death sunday night at the amf broadway lanes. >> it was a r glorious time to be an american. >> now that you have seen the film as promised, michael moore is back with us to sdus this me discuss this documentary. what stands out to you in looking at film in today's wo d

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world? >> the saddest thing that stands out to me is that i could have made this film this year and released it this weekend. if it would be every bit as relevant as it was 17 years ago when it was released. i should not have to say that. we should not in 17 years have reached a point where that film is still like it was made yesterday except the yesterday was that was when there was one of those mass school shootings. now we have had to live through dozensover them. >> has anything improved? >> y, some things have improved. some people decided to not be so afraid. they don't need a gun in the house. they have realized that they and their family members are less safe with a gun in the house.

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and so we now have according to an article in the "washington post" they did a study on this last year. 78% of americans do not own a gun. they were described thinking as a nation of gun nuts. that's not true. the vast majority of us don't even have a gun. but the scary part was of these 300 million guns that we do have, 160 million of them, nearly half of the guns are owned by only 3% of the population. 3% of americans own half the guns. that's not good. because they are clearly anywhere from 8 or 9 to 20 or 22 guns. some have a lot more. arsenals have been built across the country. and that is not a good thing.

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it's not right or necessary for a citizen to own an arsenal. it's why we don't allow a citizen to own a tank. you can't own a bazooka or a rocket launcher. there's the second amendment, but it doesn't say you can own any arm. it's not safe in the climate in which we live. the 3% have that many guns. who are the 3%? let's be honest. it's not women. this is one of the things that's not in this film that i have learned and i thought about since i made this movie. it's that most gun violence is not committed by women. so we are actually safe from the majority of the population. 51% of the population are women. when you walk out of nbc, it's dark.

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you're careful. but the thought in your head is not some woman is going to jump out of the bushes and shoot you. that thought doesn't enter your head at all. there's so many issues and questions that have been raised by this film that i wanted people to raise them. because i want to ask us who are we? who are we as a people? why do we do this? why do we shoot each other like this? why is it one particular gender and when it comes to mass shootings, why is it one particular race? >> doesn't that go to the question to people have just seen this. are you speaking and story telling about structural problems or individuals? charlton heston has come and gone, but the figures today are similar in our politics and culture who are defending certain gun rights regardless of what happened and regardless of any limit nationation.

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do you see it broader? >> it's both. it's a structural problem. and there's a policy issue that we have to grapple with here to protect ourselves, to protect our citizen. but there's also, let me put it this way. the short game here is we have to enact legislation as soon as possible to make it harder for people who are going to use these guns to hurt another human being. that we can do. we can do that with respecting the rights of people who hunt, who target shoot, or who believe they do need a a gun for their protection. they can still have that. but the long game here is i think there's something fundamental we have to change about ourselves as americans. because there's no way to explain this. as i said in the film, the canadian kids watch the sam violent video games and movies. they watch all the american stuff up there is easily

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available in canada, and yet they don't kill each other. the canadians aren't better than us. we have the same 23 chromosomes in each of our cells as human beings. so what is it about americans that why do we do this? we're good people. so why haven't we fixed this? why are we so afraid we need to arm ourselves like this. why do we think of resolving our problems through violence? whether it's personal violence because so many of the murders are actually between people who know each other, spouses, neighbors, et cetera. why when we get into a fight or angry, why do we reach for the gun? they have a lot of guns in canada. hunting is the number one sport. more than hockey. there are more hunting rifles and shotguns than hockey sticks

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ain people's homes. and i was just shocked at this. you can still kill somebody with a hunting rifle. you can take that into a school. it's not like they haven't had school shootings. france has it. there are problems in other countries, but it's not on a monthly basis. or this past summer on a weekly basis or in one weekend this summer on a day-to-day basis. so why us? i really want to pose that question through this film for people to consider what is it that we have to change about ourselves. >> we will be right back. ourselves. >> we will be right back [ applause ] thank you. it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ cologuard: colon cancer and older at average risk. i've heard a lot of excuses to avoid screening for colon cancer.

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michael moore is back with us. the movie celebrated embrace and highly criticized. anyone here who has watched it says what did you aim to do in the the way that charlton heston was edited? how do you address those now? would you do anything different? >> not a single thing. the criticisms, as we now know, when they come from the right, they just make up stuff. i learned a long time ago not to bother with that. what i feel bad about is people who are more conservative than i am, i tried to explain this in the film. i won the nra marksman award when i was a teen in boy scouts. i have said many times that i actually agree with the nra when they say guns don't kill people.

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people kill people. they have it half right when they say that. guns cannot object their own kill a person. guns don't kill people. the slogan should be changed to americans kill people. that's really the difference. why do we do it? in israel, there's guns everywhere. there's a continual war going on. they don't have school shootings. the kids don't take the guns into israeli schools and shoot them up. so why do we do it? >> wouldn't someone think part of your cull argument overlaps. >> absolutely. i don't think it's just that. i think there's something in our american dna that makes us very afraid. we have been b this way since the beginning. we were afraid of naughtive

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people. so we killed them. then we formed a civilization and got atrade friday of the witches so we hung women. there's this level of fear. we're really protected by two large oceans. so we haven't been invaded in the way other countries have. >> as you diagnose that, is that where you leave it or drive a solution? everyone reacts to you as a firm position. and people oppose and support you for that reason. >> i hope after watching the film right now that they will just think about some of the things that i have said in the film. i say them as i remember i first shotguns when i was probably 11 or 12 years old. me and the the other boys went out to the field in michigan and went bird hunting. when i think back now, what were our parents thinking?

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>> are you asking people to try to make our society more gentle? >> yes, more gentle, more loving, more kind, more respectful. less afraid. toz i'm a white guy over the age of 50 upset most of the time. so i'm the trump dem grsk. so the guys i'm friends with in gab, what i try to say is you need to calm down. it's going to be okay. they know the demographic is shifting. they see how many women are come ing into congress. for eight years in row, we had the kids entering first grade in america, it's eight years in a row that the majority of first graders are knob-white. eight years in a row.

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so you know where this is going. by the 2030s, white legpeople w be the minority. if you hang out in the bar, you'll hear this talk of they, them, whoever is going to be in charm of this country we have to keep our guns. and part of it is an acknowledgment that we, we white people, white guys, know that a large number of people have sdufred by us being in control for now more than a couple hundred years. it hasn't been good for the people who are not white guys for women, people of color, for immigrants, refugees, a all this hate and anger toward people i just want to say it's okay. it's going to be okay that nothing is going to happen to us when we're the minor ity.

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just look at south africa. nelson mantle la. they let him out of prison and people were like, oh, my god, the white people. and what happened was there was reconciliation there was forgiveness. >> it's interesting to hear you say this. dave chappell talks about south africa and other trun is that have had racial consequences. we like to satisfy that we're on the right track. i also want to ask you given -- >> just a nod to dave chappelle. in that same special that's out right now, he says if we really want to get gun control legislation passed in this country, he looks into the c camera and says i want every african-american b to go out tomorrow and legally buy a gun. ask and in two days millions of

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americans arm taillights. >> that goes to the final thing i wanted to ask you about. your political crystal ball. but people remember that you said based on your work and your life that you saw donald trump surging in the midwest and thought he was going to win. you made a trump movie and this gun movie. when you apply to this issue, do you see gun laws being passed? gun control making progress in washington? it's been gaining ground in several states. but we haven't seen that change in congress. >> the 78% is not going to demand it now. we are going to get legislation passed. and it may not happen until we have the smat, but the slegs

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going to get passed. it may take more activism. the parred park park on this they are the ones who have offered there this. but i also want to say this. we started before the movie ran tonight. you asked about the harsh images in the film that might be shocking to some people tonight. we have to show and look at it. you can't look away. when we stick our heads in the sand, you have to lock. you have to look at this. and the people are going after the messenger. the way the media cover this is when what seems to upset people is being front fronted with

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what's happening. >> you're good if it has to then it's right there. and everybody, what do they say afterwards? the harnts, the vick ticks. i say that happens somewhere else until it happens in your town. i spoke to sol of the participants at sandy hook. i said to them, you know, you have seen the crime scene photos what it mean saw those 26-year-old it shows the children with half their face blown off. half their head gone. what if america was forced to look. because america have not taken care of this problem.

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in the way it's been taken care of in every other industrialized democrat in the world, we have failed to do it. now you must look at this child, who is no longer with us. and when you turn away from that photograph, that seam scene, tell me you're going to fix this i'll say this to the gub owners, from the 78% that don't own a gun, we want you to hunt and target -- we believe in the amendment that exists in the sense if there was a tyranny, you would wome want you to relaa little bit. the access to the guns is the first problem we have to take care of. the second and most important problem is we have to take care of each other. we have to start loving each other. even when we disagree. some goi was sitting next to me

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and he got so angry. he asked to have his seat changed. i said i can move. they wouldn't change him. i said, we can make it through this flight. you and i may have our disagreements, but there's more we agree than disagree. you and us are both americans. >> the film is so arrest iing. but hearing you lay that out and push against -- either you regulate guns or deal with the recollection of the society and treatment of mental health. what you're talking about, they might hear something than what they would expect. you've trying to tackle both. >> you brought up mental health. this is not the mental health issue that. that is not mental health.

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at sandy hook, that massacre took place by a gunman with the best health care and seeing two shrinks. his father was a vice president of general electric. the company that used to own this network. >> you can say it more broadly. the idea that you have to have policy to deal with the weapons and policy to deal with the people. both have to happen and we need more health care and be paid for. but it won't go away, my friends. it won't go away if it's just let's get rid of the guns. >> the film is "bouncing r for columbine." thank you for watching. good night. dayquil severe. the daytime, coughing, aching, stuffy-head, fever, sore throat, power through your day, medicine.

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i was on the fence about changing from a manual to an electric toothbrush. but my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. she said, get the one inspired by dentists, with a round brush head. go pro with oral-b. oral-b's gentle rounded brush head removes more plaque along the gum line. for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. and unlike sonicare, oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada for its effectiveness and safety. what an amazing clean! i'll only use an oral-b! oral-b. brush like a pro. of millions of americans during the recession. so, my wife kat and i took action. we started a non-profit community bank with a simple theory - give people a fair deal and real economic power. invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. the difference between words and actions matters. that's a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message.

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>> i got a phone call. "somethin' is wrong with brandy. she's not movin, car's running." emergency vehicles, officers -- that's as far as i could go. there's my baby and i can't do nothin' about it. >> reporter: she was a hard-working young wife and mom. >> sweetest girl you could ever ask to meet. >> reporter: just minutes from home when she saw the headlights. >> somebody was tailin' her. >> my sister is in the drive

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