or in this case abusive conduct among american policy but his countries in what has become an that you took place. open foreign policy cries. you main mission was to make sure witnesses and you want to be ukraine got his weapons. and also led to what we're going fair to the person you're i understand that. investigating and ensure you get we all have an affinity to our their full story. homeland where we came from. to track for you coming thursday so this isn't something that can come to a conclusion in 30 days. like me i'm sure vindman has the same affinity. which is the coming floor vote. i think it inevitably has to go >> here we have a u.s. national i'll see you back here tonight security official who is after the first of the year, but 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. advising ukraine while working at this point we know the inside the white house star witness. story -- >> whoa. apparently against the let's play hardball. you think they will not vote on president's interests, and articles of impeachment until after the presidential election usually they spoke in english. year? >> no, i suspect that they'll isn't that kind of an vote on articles of impeachment interesting angle on this story? before the end of the year, >> i find that astounding and, chris. you know, some people might call good evening. i don't think that we'll see a i'm chris matthews in trial in the senate before the that espionage. washington. close of the year -- powerful new testimony from an >> i agree with you on that. >> so our ally ukraine is army lieutenant colonel who i'm just hoping we get the big somehow dealing against us? listened live to that notorious baby behind us because this thing's hot. what's the story here? july 25th conversation between let me go to the congressman for ukraine's our ally. president trump and ukrainian president zelensky. it delivers a striking blow to this question. for weeks we talked about the the president today. liz cheney called the attacks on shattering one of his main lines authenticity and completeness of of defense. the transcript, if you will, the in a sworn deposition house vindman shameful. summary of that conversation >> questioning the patriotism, investigators heard from which will be at the heart of the dedication to country of lieutenant colonel alexander this whole case. how good is the summary from people like mr. vindman, what you heard of the testimony

vindman, a directed iraq war lieutenant colonel vindman who veteran who's currently the top will be coming today and others by colonel vindman today? ukraine expert on the national who have testified, it is >> i can't comment on the shameful to question their security counsel. specifics of the testimony, patriotism, their love of this however, i think it's fair to nation, and we should not be vindman testified that president involved in that process. trump's demand -- that's his say that there are more questions about the transcript >> good for liz cheney. word demand dates of political dirt from ukraine was so and then there's also questions anyway, but rudy giuliani once again showed his without shame damaging to national security ability why it was stored on the that he had the duty to relay server in the way that it was on twitter writing, another his objections up the chain of shifty backfire, a u.s. stored. and i think that at this point, government employee has command. most importantly he's the first reportedly been advising two witness to have listened in on you know, we'll continue to ask questions about what is governments. no wonder he's confused and president trump's call with potentially a cover-up of the feels pressure. ukrainian president zelensky as you're talking about yourself, underlying evidence. it happened and he reacted in >> let's talk about that because realtime to what he heard. you've got some reporting on according to his prepared that. rudy. robert, to start with you on the but what we heard from remarks today vindman told reporting end of this i find congress that i did not think it fascinating there is a division lieutenant colonel vindman today here between the hard right was proper to demand that a from the nsc, he's a military hawks like liz cheney who care foreign government investigate a man, he said burisma was in his u.s. citizen. and he expressed his concerns to mainly about our alliances in notes. he wrote down the reference to the world special about russia the nsc's lead counsel. the company hunter biden was more than they care about the working for at the time as a current political health of the in other words vindman shared consultant or board member was president and those who just actually mentioned in the the concerns that were first conversation by the president with zelensky, the president of care about the political health expressed by the whistle-blower. of the president. and as a first-hand ear witness, ukraine. there seems to be division but it did not appear that word, if you will, to trump's call there. >> and that division has been the word company showed up with zelensky his testimony growing ever since president apparently or corporation, or trump made his decision on demolishes the republican syria, the hawkish wing of the

assertion that it was the whatever, but not the name of it. so that suggests perhaps there whistle-blower's complaint that somehow the basis for this whole republican party led in part by were some gaps, some liberties representative cheney have seen unreliable information. taken in the note taking. their bonds with the president >> the whistle-blower said what do you have to report on that in the transcript? fray, especially in policy. terrible things about the call, >> it's important to remember politically they know the president remains in tight but he then -- i then found out it's not an actual transcript. control of the gop. but they're speaking out with it's a memorandum of conversation. and i think one of the things he was secondhand in other words we're hearing as the rumors increasing regularity about his decisions and about the conduct start to get out about what he didn't know what was on the of his allies if not the conduct happened during today's of the president. call. >> the first whistle-blower it testimony is that there may be >> michael, it seems to me this daylight between his was hearsay. character assassination which is contemporaneous notes, secondhand knowledge. what trump used in his campaign. >> we have a third party who lieutenant vindman's and the wasn't in the room. he would destroy his opponents, >> this phony whistle-blower is not just beat them, make them giving hearsay evidence. call memo ultimately released by look like idiots. >> it's all hearsay. the white house and it's up to but here you're going after noncom battants, witnesses. you can't get a parking ticket the white house to go back and figure out exactly what made it conviction based on hearsay. you're going after military into that call memorandum and people and destroying them by >> a report from a second person what may not have. attacking them as what? >> who in the works over there who thinks they hear something, and that's the most you've got? or nsc sit room would have the anti-trumpers, they sit around >> that's the main line of the in the bushes planning on how to defense of the president saying power to cleanup the president's get this guy. it was secondhand. crap? >> this guy is the conservative who would have the power to say in his deposition today colonel we better not say burisma ideal. he escaped from behind the iron vindman also described an because that would look curtain, came to this country, earlier nsc meeting with a got an education, served in the ukrainian official at the white politic military, wounded defending our

house, a meeting attended by political? i know on the hill you could fix country and now works at the speech, you could help the highest level in the white gordon sondland among others who grammar, help the sentences house. this man is what conservatives were carrying out trump's agenda parse, but you weren't supposed to take out reality. in ukraine. >> i think in some ways traditionally want to aspire to. vindman said someone started >> i wonder about the newspapers speculation because it's really speak about ukraine delivering still having tremendous power, about who has access to that specific investigations in order not just reporting like your to secure a meeting with memo. president trump. i agree with you it's not a own, but tomorrow morning's at which point ambassador bolton transcript, and it says that paper is going to have top of cut the meeting short. cleary it's not a transcript. the fold this guy's dressed afterwards someone emphasized i will say in my conversations the importance that ukraine with officials today a senior blues. there's one institution the american people all agree on is official tells me he finds deliver the investigations into the integrity of the u.s. vindman credible. the 2016 elections, the bidens as we have allies of the military people. president calling this person a will it shatter people like kevin mccarthy who have to go spy, saying president trump and burisma, i stated to entered doesn't know who this person is, home and attack this guy in sondland his statements were their districts. h i wonder how far will they go he's a never-trumper. for this president? inappropriate. the statements to investigate people inside the white house are saying this is someone we >> when i talk to house democrats they don't expect biden and his son had nothing to tomorrow's headline or front respected, this is someone page to change the dynamic in a credible. do with national security. there's this fact that the white dramatic way, but they think house is very cautious about inch by inch, witness by witness meanwhile house democrats today attacking someone who literally released a resolution that has a purple heart for saving -- they're making a case to the brings the impeachment inquiry american people. and they want to get it public to a new public phase, the full as soon as possible. because they know, chris, it's >> do we trust the alterations house is expected to vote on not just about the one day story, and they know ambassador that measure this thursday, two days from now. in that transcript done by the i'm joined now by a democratic white house people? >> i think we have to figure out taylor now with lieutenant colonel there is a case against whether or not there's going to the president's conduct congressman christmas morgty of democrats are building.

be daylight there. but they want to see these illinois, joyce vance a former >> if you hear rumors which will people eventually quite soon if u.s. attorney who's prosecuted become reporting by 6:30 they can out in front with their tonight, we're going to get it hands in the air taking the oath corruption cases -- let me start from the major papers and we're going to know whether there's to tell the truth in front of someone screwing around with the american people. but for now they have to least collect the facts. those reports. but we'll see. that's what they're telling reporters behind the scenes. with the congressman. anyway, according to prepared a star witness today, a witness remarks vindman also told congress today he watched >> meanwhile the president's to the conversation. defenders in congress reportedly what more do we need? outside influencers promoting a looking to shift their >> well, you're right. impeachment strategy. he's a very compelling witness. false narrative about ukraine, house minority leader kevin which was harmful to u.s. he's credible. mccarthy said rather focus on he's a purple heart awardee. foreign government policy. additionally concerned about the attacking the process as they've and he's dedicated his life to freeze to military support to service of our country, and hez been doing, quoted in the new phase, mccarthy said the risking his career by coming before us to testify about the republicans defense of trump wrongdoing that he witnessed. and as you saw in his opening would revolve around the facts. statement he is very specific, ukraine. congressman, this is pretty interesting. here's a member of the nsc but today again mccarthy blasted and i found him to be as i said staff, a military guy in uniform the process. >> i applaud the speaker for very credible today. another in a string of career writing up a memo to restart our finally admitting it is a whole public servants who are coming military assistance, the javelin entire sham, but you can't put forward who are apolitical with missiles especially i guess, the the genie back in the bottle. evidence of wrongdoing. anti-tank missiles to that >> how does he confirm the country and they need to fight if you were in a legal term it'd wrongdoing aspect?

the russian tanks and nothing how does he confirm the be the fruit from the poisonous happened. >> that's exactly right. wrongness of trump's shaking tree. >> what would be the republican argument on substance? down a foreign leader for dirt you know, basically in on a political opponent? there wasn't such a phone call, >> well, as you said earlier he there aren't witnesses, there mid-august, you know, vindman is was actually a witness to the trying to coordinate an isn't such a transcript? phone call. >> there is flow argument on he was actually a participant on interagency process that involves the state department, the phone call. but he was also a participant in the defense department and substance. the president wants them to others. conversations surrounding the and basically they're told, you defend him on substances. phone call. and so you pointed out in his know, this aid has been frozen he's frustrated hearing the opening statement he talked and all of them are scratching about a july 10th meeting at the process arguments. he wants them to say the call their heads as to why. was perfect, and they can't do and they're basically saying we white house where mr. volker, better get this aid restarted it because the facts don't ambassador sondland, rick perry, support it. that's why they keep going back as well as john bolton, fiona asap or this hold removed asap. to these process arguments and why democrats are belatedly hill and others were present so they're writing these memos, with the ukrainians, where trying to get the president to moving to have a vote and hopefully move into a more open weigh in with their secretaries ambassador sondland said and so forth. this is very serious and pretty and transparent process. according to his opening much everyone at vindman's level >> robert, in tom broka's new statement that in order to get a white house meeting you have to was equally alarmed. deliver certain investigations. and so, again, it's going to be and these are bogus further developed with more book, there's a phrase in there i really like which is the investigations, but they're testimony i'm sure. investigations to benefit the >> well, today convinced me once assumed power of a president, president politically here in again that the speaker of the the united states for his house nancy pelosi is right on re-election. that's well, the last point ma what a president personally course here doing the right thing, keeping the focus tight assumes is his power, nixon was the biggest one is he used the and sharp on this conversation, this betrayal of american wrong when he says if i do it, word demand. he said that the president in

interests and public trust for it's legal. can you tell in your reporting the phone call of july 25th with personal political gain. zelensky, the president of i think it's great this witness whether trump thinks it was okay ukraine, he heard the president makes the case. to do what he did to shakedown we'll hear more i'm sure. demand -- that was his verb -- zelensky for dirt on biden? does he think that was in his demand dirt on joe biden. power? how do you take that? >> based on my reporting talking thank you u.s. congressman, i don't know if you're allowed to the president's confidants to divulge that our not but it they believe he's such an joyce vance, and thank you may have been in his opening outsider, someone who's never katrina mulligan for your inside served in government when he statement. >> it was in his opening came into office he was willing statement. perspective on the atmospherics first of all, you don't need a to not only shatter the norms of quid pro quo for that alone to on the nsc in such situations. american politics but test the be illegal. limits of executive power. pressuring or even requesting coming up president trump aing and he did it in ways even his foreign assistance to participate or to help in impeachment witnesses. confidants say they're sometimes domestic re-election effort is catch this, double agents, deep alarmed he's not operating by the norms of the american illegal. that being said he did use words state conspirators, human scum. how long can republicans in presidency. and they even believe inside in the call transcript that this white house history will would also suggest a quid pro congress continue to defend such look back did he test it, did he quo. and of course that's illegal as ruthless attacks? and here's a good one, vice bring these institutions to the president mike pence struggles brink in how he was operating on well. so mr. vindman, colonel vindman to answer a simple question. foreign policy? >> okay, if that conversation was it appropriate for donald was legit, why did they squirrel was a first party participant to trump to ask ukrainians for dirt the call and could speak away in that terminal or on joe biden? directly about what was said and his inability to provide a whatever it was that was only good for hidesing stuff for what were the atmospherics for posterity, why did they hide it the call. >> katrina, i want you to come simple answer to a simple question is telling. plus new reporting that from conversation? in here and talk about the >> sunlight is the best republicans fear a wipeout in

2020, meaning they lose the disinfectitant. white house, trump loses, they at "the washington post" we atmospherics. believe all the truth should here's an officer of the u.s. lose the house again, and they come out, and we're trying to military assigned to the nsc lose the u.s. senate to boot. report out the truth on this we've got much more on that tonight. story and other stories. stick with us. we've got much more on tt ha that is behind the scenes the tonight. stick with us. derate to severe psoriasis, staff, he's listening to the little things can be a big deal. white house argues for national phone call and hears something security reasons. he thinks is really wrong by the but they haven't made a case yet that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. exactly why the full transcript president of the united states, all the way to the chain of it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. command, and he calls up the can't be released to the public. counsel to the nsc and says this with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. >> it sounds to me like a is wrong. damning admission of guilt. what's that like to do that? but i think you might be right. >> well, there are a couple of it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, i think trump's assumption of things that come to mind. first, that is not an easy thing or vomiting. power is so broad that it is otezla is associated with... to do. it is not an easy thing to go to ...an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression truly frightening. the nsc legal advisor and report still ahead, the witnesses or suicidal thoughts the president of the united or if these feelings develop. are plentiful, credible and some people taking otezla willing to testify as we've seen states. one of the key questions that i reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment and the evidence appears the have is what did the counsel do? upper respiratory tract infection disputable. and headache may occur. so what happens now and how will it affect next year's here you have lawyers -- i'm a tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant presidential election looking lawyer, and we're notorious for or planning to be. ahead with impeachment in 2020 with presidential candidate tom otezla. show more of you. steyer. he's coming here live in just a taking meticulous notes, for ♪ documenting everything we do minute. coming here live in jus certainly in a situation like minute we call it the mother standard of care. this. so one of the questions i have is what documentation did he hey allergy muddlers... make of the complaint that he achoo! ...do your sneezes turn heads? it's how we bring real hope to our cancer patients-

received, which again wasn't try zyrtec... just one complaint, there were ...it starts working hard at hour one... like viola. two. there was a complaint after that and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, initial -- >> and the whistle-blower, her team at ctca created a personalized care plan whoever that is, also got that zyrtec muddle no more. word. >> that's right. and we also know that fiona hill that treated her cancer and strengthened her spirit. high protein. low sugar. raised concerns. so what did the nsc counsel tastes great! so viola could focus on her future. high protein. low sugar. their future. so good! this is how we inspire hope. high protein. low sugar. this is how we heal. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein bars. cancer treatment centers of america. eisenburg, and to extent he try lemon cake. appointments available now. doesn't have records, why not? >> i love television because we cancer treatment centers of america. could show all those toadies out that life of the party look there starting and ending with walk it off look one more mile look lindsey graham all saying you don't have an eyewitness, and reply all look then we have an eyewitness to own your look... ...with fewer lines. all that stuff. there's only one botox® cosmetic. in other words, they're basing all their game on you can't it's the only one... trust the whistle-blower because ...fda approved... ...to temporarily make frown lines... it might be a empty trumper or ...crow's feet... ...and forehead lines... ...look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic, something and now we've got a may spread hours to weeks after injection, witness to the conversation who complained in realtime. causing serious symptoms. doesn't it knock all that stuff alert your doctor right away off the table as relevant? as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, >> it certainly looks that way. eye problems, or muscle weakness you have now this lieutenant may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. colonel who describes himself as do not receive botox® cosmetic getting a purple heart because he was serving his country and if you have a skin infection.

side effects may include allergic reactions, attacked and wounded. injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, this is someone who understands serving your country. and eyelid swelling. he's coming to the united states tell your doctor about your medical history, to say, look, i had a real muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins problem with this and i went to this person twice and i heard as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. this call and immediately thought this is not what we do, so, give that just saw a puppy look. this is not in the national and whatever that look is. security interests of the united look like you... states. i think what you have are with fewer lines. republicans really throwing a lot of things at the wall and see results at botoxcosmetic.com hoping something will stick. you then before that had them saying the president never pressured ukraine, the call came -excuse me. out. uh... then they said maybe ukraine do you mind...being a mo-tour? didn't actually know what we were doing when we were holding up that money. -what could be better than being a mo-tour? so i think what republicans are doing now is really saying, what else can we do to try to show the real question is... the president that we're loyal do you mind not being a mo-tour? to him? because the president is saying, look, republicans you need to be stronger. -i do. but this is in some ways really for those who were born to ride, there's progressive. falling apart because we're seeing witness after witness now come forward and really make the -i do. claim this was wrong. >> joyce, as a u.s. attorney i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪

you're familiar with the opiates case, a drug case. ♪ to bare my skin this is deal operating outside ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ the united states government basically by the three amigos, ♪ nothing on my skin volker and perry and this guy ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. sondland who's a paid -- well, he paid for his ambassadorship keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. to the eu. he was one of those guys. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. and now we find out they had of those, nearly 9 out of 10 welcome back to "hardball." these meetings beforehand. sustained it through 1 year. this is all about squeezing or before lieutenant and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. shaking down this ukrainian attacking him. the president tweeted this president. we've got now a voice basically morning that, quote, he never ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ recording of it by this even heard of vindman before ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ lieutenant colonel who's proceeding to accuse vindman listening in on it and he can without evidence of being, ♪ nothing is everything verify the conversation. quote, a never-trumper. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections in fact realtime evidence he well, he knows him somehow. and lower your ability to fight them. complained about it went to the before treatment your doctor should check you some loyalists took their higher ups and the attorney to character assassinations further for infections and tuberculosis. complain about it. with attacks on colonel tell your doctor if you have an infection what more do you need in a court or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, vindman's motives as a ukrainian chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. of law to say donald trump is immigrant at the age of 3, by impeachable? >> i think when lieutenant ♪ nothing is everything colonel vindland testifies the way. they were 3 years old when they ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. fled ukraine with their father publicly, when the country can hear from vindman, it will be and grandmother. ♪ it adds since vindman is fluent one of those compelling moments in the language ukrainian where the country will come to a stop and people will be watching officials sought him out for his testimony from tvs all over

the country. one of the problems democrats advice how to deal with the have faced up until now is that president's attorney, rudy giuliani. but the president's hard right defenders questioned decorated iraq veterans -- well, they a large part of the country has simply ignored the narrative. it hasn't touched close enough didn't. they supported it. let's watch. to home. >> we also know he was born in but hearing this decorated the soviet union, immigrated military veteran tell his story, with his family concern a really active duty service member tell his story will be compelling. he will be credible. he is a first-hand witness. you asked what more do investigators need to bring this case home and point out that the president should be impeached. one thing i would caution against is cutting off investigation too early. it's always a delicate balance, in that transcript, mr. vice president, the president right? there's mentions show biden. and he says to president zelensky, i hope you will look into this, in a reference to what happened to joe biden's son, to vice president biden's son and to mr. biden. do you think it was appropriate for the president of the united states to bring up a political rival? >> well, i think the president

has made clear that his discussion in that matter was all about looking to the past. >> well, that got to the bottom of it. welcome back to "hardball." that was vice president mike pence dancing, continuing to evade questions about whether president trump's request to a foreign government in this case ukraine to dig up daughter on his political rival raised any red flags for him. the vp, is a moral man, isn't he? the vice president also pushed back on the damning account given by the top diplomat of ukraine william taylor by trying to make it about here's the favorite republican word now, process. >> we can't really count on that because all we have from the committee are leaks. the process that's going on in congress today is a disservice to the american people and it's a disgrace. >> again, it wasn't leaked. it was in his statement he released to the public. >> according -- look, the american people have a right to

know. >> whoa, well those remarks came as the white house still has not released a transcript of pence's call with ukrainian president zelensky, something pence said he'd have no objection to almost three weeks ago. for more i'm joined by presidential candidate tom steyer. let's talk turkey. what is it essentially in the trump presidency that led to this today, this latest symptom of unconstitutional behavior? what did you spot early? >> chris, from his very first day in office this president was putting his interests ahead of the interests of the american people and using the office for his own benefit. and it's absolute corruption. and then as you pointed out in the previous segment he was covering it up intentionally. we saw in the mueller report there were numerous examples of obstruction of justice.

but he's someone who cannot understand his job is to put the american people first in every single instance and he's never to put himself ahead of them. that is what i spotted from day one, that he is a deeply corrupt man and it's absolutely critical for this country to draw that distinction and the democracy itself and the american people to get a chance -- >> why did 2 out of 5 americans in poll after poll put up with this indecency? >> i don't think the evidence has been made clear, and there's a question now about having televised hearings -- >> you think televised hearings where you basically force-feed like a goose, you force-feed information to people who don't want to receive it. do you think trump people want to hear the truth? >> i think the american people are decent, and when the evidence gets in front of them the way the kavanaugh hearings are, with no intermediation by anybody, it will come to the conclusion that there's deep corruption, that it's absolutely unacceptable and he has to go. and that will put enormous

pressure on every elected official. to me the c in the court of public opinion. >> you're going to go down in histrazz the one man who bankrolled the effort to impeach the president. how much have you spent overall starting at the beginning of your campaign -- your ads are on tv all the time. how much does that add up to so far? >> i think someone in the campaign said there was $100 million -- >> you far will you go? because you're doing well -- >> you're talking about in terms of campaign, not impeachment. i think the number was 47, $48 million. >> so far. >> i'm doing the exact same thing i was doing running for president i was doing for impeachment, taking on climate over a decade ago. i'm doing the exact same thing i'm doing running for president when i've been organizing young people to vote. there's something wrong in the united states. no one wants to deal with it.

>> you're saying truth will win out? >> i'm saying just like the impeachment someone has to go tell the truth. corporations own the government. they've bought the government. we're not getting the american people to be served and everybody in the country knows it, chris. i was literally talking to a 25-year-old at 11:00 p.m. -- >> i don't think the corporations own aoc -- >> if you take a look why do we have the drug prices we do? why have we never dealt with climate? why have we never dealt with our gun violence that has been going on for decades? >> thank you. but roughly, i want to ask you a question without -- >> go ahead. >> would you spend your last dollar to get rid of this president? >> i would spend my last dollar to save the american democracy in a heartbeat and never regret it for a second. >> you saw the strain of evil

there early on and it's now in full fruition. do you like the way pelosi is handling this? >> look, i've been pushing for what we're talking about now, televised hearings. i know, but that's what we need -- >> i'm on prime time even though it's going to hurt us, i love prime time because people actually watch television at night. you're a john brown to this whole thing. you started this thing. still ahead, remember him? anyway, thank you. still ahead, the republican majority in the senate was once considered relatively safe, mitch mcconnell was considered unbeatable, but this impeachment thing under way right now has republican strategists looking at a new battlefield and not liking what they're seeing. we could see a blue wave that takes the house again for the democrats, takes the white house and takes the senate, too, for a democratic government, a

post-trump government becoming a possibility as early as 2021. stick around. that's next on "hardball." s 2021 stick around atth's next on "hardball." it's tou

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welcome back to "hardball." republicans are growing increasingly worried about 2020 and sounding the alarm bells about what some are calling a nightmare scenario. next year's election will setup an epic battle not just for control but both levels of congress. democrats are hoping to maintain their majority and needing to flip four seats to control the u.s. senate. four. they only need three seats because the vice president cast the tie breaking vote if it's 50-50. according to axios a growing number of republicans are privately warning of increasing fears of a total wipeout in 2020, that means all three house, senate, white house.

one, a wave of republican retirements creating vacancies in competitive districts. troubling fund raisers for senate incumbents in those key vulnerable states. and sagging support for the president in some of those same key swing states. you're looking at them. will voters punish the party of trump? that's next. you're watching "hardball." f trump? that's next. you're watching "hardball. when you've got public clouds, and private clouds, and hybrid clouds- things can get a bit cloudy for you. but now, there's the dell technologies cloud, powered by vmware. a single hub for a consistent operating experience across all your clouds. that should clear things up.

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back to "hardball." congressional republicans are growing increasingly concerned right now about 2020 and how they stand. the national journal warns, quote, given the trajectory of trump's presidency right now and the trend lines and battlegrounds republicans don't have much room for error right now. control of the u.s. senate past 2020 looks awfully close to a toss up. but one republican strategist tells axios that republicans are all worried about democrats' fund-raising prowess. but will it translate into a republican wipeout? for more i'm joined by republican congressman from florida. let me go to carlos in this. your party, sir, you've got a 3-seat advantage. it's 53-47 in the senate right now. are they really worried or not about a sweep against them including the white house and house? >> they're worried, chris. and they're also tired.

there's trump fatigue all over the country and that includes the house republican conference and the senate republican conference. that's why you see in part some republicans walking away choosing not to run for re-election. some of them think it's going to be difficult to get re-elected and others are just tired of having to defend donald trump of having to answer for all of his conduct. so there is a growing concern. it kind of feels the way it did about 6 to 7 weeks out of the 2016 election when some republicans started creating some distance between themselves and the president. of course, that election took a number of interesting twists and turns after that. >> sure did. >> but certainly a lot of republicans understand that this is serious, that there's real potential political peril out there for them when it comes to this issue. this is not like the russia probe where mueller came in, and in a way kind of bailed republicans out. this is different.

the only ones that could potentially bail republicans out of this is democrats by mishandling it, and it appears that nancy pelosi is being extremely careful, and that's unlikely. >> you know, joel, the more we've gotten into these fights uns the constitution, the u.s. senate is setup to protect the more rural states. its idea is not to be democratic. the big states like california have got two members of the senate. idaho gets two members of the senate. that's how it works to keep the rural more conservative part of the country represented. that's what it's about. and that's why skeptical generally about the democrats grabbing the senate in this contentious atmosphere which is so ideological out there right now. >> it's also setup to be cyclical. it wouldn't surprise me if democrats made natural progression in the senate. one, i-think this story is a bit of republicans trying to bring down expectations a bit with the senate map. i think they'd rather be the

come back kid as opposed to the person being the front-runner going into 2020. why would republicans go on the record talking about how scared they are for 2020 -- >> so mitch mcconnell can give us one of those bugs bunny laughters he would get away with it again? >> yes, and look they have a president donald trump won't give the high sign, hey, run the race you need to run. in 2012 when barack obama was a bit -- donald trump doesn't have the political discipline to do that. and so that's the real challenge here for some republicans. >> yesterday a three judge panel in north carolina blocked the state from using its current gerrymandered map in next year's election. the ruling seems to ensure the state will have to redraw its congressional districts in a more transparent way, a more fair way. the republican controlled state legislator drew the current map

and openly talked about the advantage it gave the republicans. the gop controls ten of the state's 13 congressional seats right now despite an even split in the popular vote. tweeted a new map could net democrats an additional 2 to 3 seats. it looks ike the democrats are going to hold the house. that looks strong. your thoughts? >> yeah, right now certainly looks like we'll see probably a status quo election in the house. of course, as this ukraine inquiry, impeachment inquiry advances, that could change depending on which party figures out how to navigate this. i think for right now republicans are going to struggle, some of them with this vote coming up this week. a lot of people thought this was going to be a tough vote for centrist democrats, maybe. but it's certainly going to be a tough vote for -- >> how many republicans? you sat in that chamber. how many republicans will vote on the resolution to have the

impeachment inquiry move go forward. >> it's a little early to tell, chris, because this was just recently announced. republicans were caught off-guard. a lot of people are talking about this. but certainly i think there's a handful of republicans in the house -- >> thank you. that's news. up next all eyes on the star witness tonight. you're watching "hardball." n thr witness tonight. you're watching "hardball. performance comes in lots of flavors. there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ you ever wish you weren't a motaur? sure. sometimes i wish i had legs like you.

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have you noticed this president's penchant for attacking heroes? it's like an addiction with him. remember going after senator john mccain? >> he's not a war hero. he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. >> mccain was shot down over the capitol of north vietnam, suffered all kinds of broken bones in the crash, was fished out of the lake by people who were primarily interested in beating him up even further, then spent 5 1/2 years being tortured in a hanoi prison. much of the time in solitary. and then there was the gold star killed in iraq and even made disparaging comments about his wife. and now today it's lieutenant colonel alexander vindman, a decorate

decorated iraq war veteran and reported to his higher ups he saw something terribly wrong with the president shaking down a vulnerable foreign leader for campaign dirt. lieutenant colonel vindman is an immigrant that came to the united states at a young age and then dedicated his career to serving this country. he and his twin brother were highlighted in ken burns' 1985 film "statue of liberty." >> our mother died so we went to italy and then we came here. >> that was alex doctor vindman. so true to the trumpian mo trump and his allies have setup to destroy alexander vinldman, destroying him as a person, anything to protect trump from the truth. and this is the trump way, of course, to destroy anyone who questions him. it's a level of ruthlessness we haven't seen before. and what's truly scary is 2 out

of 5 american voters who poll after poll sign-off on this indecency. and not the answer for that. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> colonel, do you believe the president put national security at risk? >> the most damning witness to date, democrats finally release their impeachment resolution. >> we'll have to make a decision based on their conscience. >> tonight what we now know about impeachment plans as the first witness