the interests and will of the theories profiting off the american people. presidency and the one person in and here we are withy washington turning the country serious allegations that he may have done the same. upside down. only those warnings weren't well, one thing we also have to about president trump, they consider, because there will weren't at president trump, and come a day when president trump they weren't coming from the is no longer in office, we have to think how do we right this democrats. >> i could go abroad, make balance here? where the executive appears to millions off of my father's be able to get away with presidency. i'd be a really rich guy. anything. we have to figure out a way to it could be incredible. realign the balance of powers. >> down in the scif right now is like a cult. i know that sounds wonky, but it these are a group of people is serious as we look to loyally following their leader continue to defend and uphold as he bounces from one the constitution. >> well, it's how he used the department of justice in a lot of ways, that's really what outlandish conspiracy theory to another. broke that measure, i think, for >> from one man to turn this the public opinion. >> we can talk about how this is country upside down to have this all playing with the president's base, people support him. vote today, our founding fathers maybe some senators if they with warned about this. would flip if there were a trial >> and, that could be called the on impeachment. your district famously president art of projection. trump won by 30 points, two >> could also be called years later you come back as a democrat and win this that direct. how is all this impeachment shamelessness at an absolutely conversation playing on staten breathtaking pace. island? >> not 30 points. back in the late '90s during the he won it by more than he won last impeachment there were a texas. lot of republicans that talked about the death of shame, even definitely in the double digits. right now what you see, as i

the new republic talked about said, is people truly do, i the death of shame. well, here we are 20 years later believe, understand that these allegations are serious. and there you see it among but what i hear often is two things. people who actually act like first thing i hear is well, look, max, i get it, the they're in a personality cult. president might have done something wrong, but everybody people who have spent their does it. why are you singling this guy entire life enriched by their out for something when everybody father's last name. does this? you know presidents used to do this in the past, senators are and republicans who -- this doing this all the time. it's for that reason that we really is breathtaking. voted yesterday on whether to should be coupling this with the have an inquiry into whether the most expansive anticorruption effort in the history of the united states. commander and chief compromised the second thing we hear, though, is oh, look, max, this national security. and one of our democratic allies is a witch-hunt. you guys were trying to get him who had been invaded by russia, from day one. well, there are members of my -- whether we should have an some of my colleagues in the inquiry into whether he did make democratic party who certainly those compromises for his wanted to impeach this guy before they were sworn in. re-election campaign. they are totally wrong. we have the evidence already. there are also members of the it's out there. and yet not a single republican party, far too many, republican -- you talk about a who wouldn't even consider personality cult. >> yeah. initiating an inquiry of this >> you talk about projection, president no matter what he did there it is right there. you know what? because there's an "r" next to it's at this point it's just his name. that is even worse. sad. >> yeah. >> but, you know what? so my belief is that's why i that's how they'll be remembered talk to much about earning trust

by history and it's not going to be pretty. here. we have got to look at this as a >> well, if it was just sad, larger anticorruption issue as perhaps it couwould be okay. well as constantly, constantly show the american people that we but it's really bad for our are rising above the fray and country. we have republican strategist not concerned about our own and msnbc political analyst politics. >> congressman max rose, thanks, susan del percio with us. congressman. >> thanks, guys. >> thank you so much, congressman. mika, the thing is, and, you edward luce, and editor of know, what the congressman says, a lot of trump supporters say. "washington post" and msnbc but let's just be really clear political analyst eugene here. not every senator does, not robinson. and cofounder and ceo of axios, every house member does it, not jim vandehei. every president does it. horn and author of "soul of in fact, we can actually be as america" rogers professor, the bold as to say no president of the united states, no commander presidency of vanderbilt and chief has ever said on university jon meacham. national television that he he's an nbc news and msnbc would get dirt from foreign contributor. well, the house took a enemies. and that he would look at it and significant step forward in the impeachment inquiry of president use it. trump. that's, of course, what lawmakers approved a resolution president trump said to george stephanopoulos. >> that's right. >> no president, no commander 232-196 largely along party and chief in american history lines to formalize the rules and has ever been warned by his own guidelines for the public phase of the impeachment probe. directors that he appointed of

the eight-page resolution lays the fbi, of the cia, the ndi, out the format for open hearings and would allow the president or the united states militaries his counsel to participate in intel committees, none have ever impeachment proceedings held by the house judiciary committee. had the entire intel community two democratic congressmen, new saying the united states is under attack and its democratic jersey and minnesota, broke with the party to broke vote against institutions and its voting the resolution. process is in danger and have both represent districts that the president completely ignore donald trump won in 2016. that. and finally, no commander and independent congressman justin chief in the history of this amash also voted with the republic, no president has ever democrats. up until this point, republicans have largely complained about called a foreign leader and the impeachment process being said, we're holding up your behind closed doors, but house against committee chairman adam $400 million in military aid or schiff told msnbc last night we're holding up military aid that the process of releasing transcripts can now begin as until -- or holding up a meeting early as next week. at the white house until you dig house speaker nancy pelosi up dirt on my opponent's family. defended the resolution on the house floor during a news nothing remotely like that has conference and with an ever happened. appearance on late night and if anybody is hearing that television framing the investigation as a from a republican politician,

please let us know. constitutional duty that must be carried out fairly. because that republican politician is either a liar or >> it provides the president and he is illiterate. his counsel opportunities to and we need to push back against participate, including presenting his case, submitting this post literate president and requests for testimony, this post literate political attending hearings, raising ecosystem that donald trump is objections to testimony given, swimming in. >> well, you can characterize it cross-examining witnesses, and as illiterate, but you could more. and contrary to what you may characterize it as the process have heard today, we give more from stephanopoulos to mick mulvaney to the constant opportunity to the -- to his narrative the president putting case than was given to other out there and his mignons that this was a perfect call that was presidents before. i don't know why the republicans made. you can characterize it as are afraid of the truth. normalizing a crime. every member should support >> yeah. >> because that's going to be allowing the american people to the defense, is that this is hear the facts for themselves. okay, this is what we do. we didn't see anything wrong with it. that's what we're getting at benjamin franklin came out, they this point. >> this is where it ends up, said mr. franklin what do we because there's obviously been have a monarchy or a republic? quid pro quo. as was written in the national and he said a republic if we can keep it. review a couple dadeys ago, and here this right here in the here and now we are keeping the everybody knows there was a quid pro quo. just watch the republicans have

republic from a president who says article two says i can do whatever i want. slipped and slid from one not so. it's about fairness. because, as i said, this is position that was indefensible to another. they're going tend to up at the about the constitution and how end of the day saying, okay, we go forward with this. yes, there was a quid pro quo no decision has been made to and he held up military impeach, that's what the assistance to a democratic nation invaded by vladimir inquiry's about. putin, but so what? h but how we go forward say test for douse so worthy of the get over it. constitution, worthy of our and when they do that, donald trump will have truly rotted the founders' sacrifice when they established this constitution. republican party to its core. >> so nancy pelosi, so jon we're very close, actually, now. coming up, a majority of meacham, i'm stuck on the fact that not a single republican americans say president trump voted to launch this inquiry. has little or no respect to the obviously democrats did. democratic institutions. they voted to launch the inquiry we're digging into those new on bill clinton, richard nixon quite a few republicans numbers and what they mean for obviously engaged early on many the presidency. "morning joe" is back in a moment. esidency. that process. "morning joe" is back in a moment. but here we've already had a president who has lied about the phone call, a president who has lied about the quid pro quo, a president who has lied about

the, quote, transcript, a president who has lied already and been caught about seeking dirt on joe biden's family, a president who has lied about twisting and wretching u.s. foreign policy in assistance to a democratic ally under attack by vladimir putin for his own political purposes, and not a single republican finds this worthy of inquiry. where does that put us as a but we're also a company that controls hiv, republic? >> so, i want mika to get ready fights cancer, to get excited and interested in repairs shattered bones, what i'm about to say. i think we're interestingly -- relieves depression, we're almost in a -- are you restores heart rhythms, ready? we're almost in a kind of a helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. preenlightenment, prereformation from the day you're born at the moment. we never stop taking care of you.

it's like you could look at data and observe reality and then form your views as opposed to being handed your views from on i'm working to treat every car like i treat mine. adp helps airtech automotive streamline payroll and hr, high, often from people who either by an accident or birth, so welby torres can achieve what he's working for. incident of election who was ecclesiastical authority, they were the ones who were absolute rulers and they would interpret the world for you and you didn't have to worry about it. well, along comes the guttenberg, along comes literacy - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. and the reformations, the shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself european enlightenment and into a base you can empty once a month. suddenly individuals are at the and unlike standard robots that bounce around, center of the story and are not simply in the audience waiting it cleans row by row. to be told what do and what to if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. believe. in the american revolution, for all its faults, was, in fact, the clearest political manifest occasion of that insight. and so when conservatives say, modern-day conservatives say they want to be true to the

founding or they want to return to the traditions of the american founding, the central liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, hmm. exactly. tradition of the american so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... founding is that you think for what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. yourself. you observe what's happening, and you decide what to make of only pay for what you need. it. and you don't simply do what ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ someone else tells you. you don't see. whyou should be mad that airports are complicated... way someone else tells you. he's my emotional support snake. if they're on a certain cable ...but you're not, because you have e*trade, network or if they won a certain whose tech isn't complicated. election. and the fact that no republican it helps you understand the risk and reward potential thinks of that this is worth on an options trade. looking into suggests to me that don't get mad. get e*trade. passion and superstition and blind obedience have replaced reason for those people in this moment. >> well, great minds think allot. ed luce, you wrote a column talking about how reason has been replaced by corruption, nepotism, by this blind on see

on seek consequence that blows past what the founding fathers all talked about that, again, we actually use reason and did not blindly follow a monarch or the dictates of what an autocrat says. >> yeah, well my column looks at is the really striking parallels between trump's america today and the way the president is conducting himself and the sort of right corruption and late mid-evil rome when they used to buy the popeship. which it was sort of plagued by -- one was the sale of office a new poll shows the and one can't but think of majority of americans think gordon sondland, the ambassador donald trump has little or no to the eu and his million dollars donation to the trump respect for our democratic inaugural committee. institutions and traditions. no diplomatic experience. another is nepotism, which of 61% according to the apnorc poll, including 26% of course popes refused to give

republicans. just 38% of americans think he jobs to their children. and if you think of ivanka trump has a great deal or a fair amount of respect. as first daughter and her husband jared kushner as this and the impeachment inquiry into president trump, 47% of sort of figure in the white house, this is very much within americans approve of the inquiry. the nepotism. 38% disapprove. and the third sin dull gent. on the legality of president the medieval catholic church trump's interactions with would sell indulgence in president zelensky of ukraine, exchange for good works you'd get less time in purgatory. 38% believe trump acted illegally. and if you think of the 29% believe he acted legally, but unethically, while 30% extraordinary gap between what the church which was the gospel of christ and how bishops lived believe he has done nothing wrong. in palaces and think of the gap >> so, jon meacham, this poll, between the elites today, both you file this poll under the trump supporting and trump poll where a majority of americans say they believe their opposing, and the creative economy of opportunity, i think president is racist and yet that you see a dominate institution president is still the odds-on which is ripe for disruption. favorite to be re-elected next year. if donald trump is alexander the in this case, by land slide 6th, which is the pope, he's the one who sort of breaks that system. margins americans think this

and as jon meacham is very president has no respect or very little respect for the united eloquently putting are creates states constitution, which is of course what we talked about the conditions, the anger every day. amongst the people. he breaches constitutional norms and for martin luther to nail on a weekly basis. those 95 feces to the door, and yet, again, this president, the majority of americans say is should be said that printing was the disruptive technology then. social media is now, i fear it's racist, the overwhelming majorities of americans say he sort of a post literate rather has little or no respect for the than an enlightenment era, constitution is the odds-on social media, that we're living favorite to be re-elected. in. it's a kind of memology. i guess it's not so much a question on the president but as but those parallels provide it is the voters of the united very, very stark warning signs states of america. >> i think a lot of folks as to the world trump's leading probably hear democratic norms us into. as status quo, maybe. >> quite a history lessons from and one of the reasons he's professors luce and meacham this president is we've had 40 years early in the morning. well done by both of you. where the working class in the country has not believed that gene robinson, let me stop and they have been advancing as pause and the banner headline in the "new york times" about rapidly as they had come to impeachment. this is a historic moment. i'm not saying it's a good day expect in the post war era. or bad day, you don't want to there were what? live in a country where your ten presidential elections between 1980 and 2016 and a bush

president semipeechd. but democrats are compelled that they had to do something at this or a clinton was on 80% of those point and this will now move tickets. and so if you come to 2016 and into the public kphase where it you're a bush or clinton and will become more of a show. you're running against this but what we saw yesterday from republicans to bring it back makes me doubt all the disruptive professional speculation we hear and behind the scenes reporting that there wrestler/reality show guy who are cracks in the base, that speaks to a populous unease and some republicans privately are fans it, then it's going to end moving away from the president. up the way it ended up. they're upset by what they've so, i think that a lot of people probably hear norm as status seen publicly, they're upset by some of the testimony they've heard in these closed hearings. because when they go out in quo, as -- and want change. public and when they get a chance to vote on this, there's no movement at all from what i find so interesting is republicans. why would there be any movement at all as this proceeds to an impeachment vote and then to a vote perhaps to convict in the it's almost anilistic moment. senate? republicans have supported president trump from the beginning and yesterday on the enough folks want to burn down record showed that they're not going anywhere. the whole system that they're willing to file this guy who, i >> that's absolutely right, promise you, if he's willing to willie. after meacham and luce i was going to talk about the code burn down norms which you don't of -- >> go for it. have much respect for, he's >> or maybe cyrus the great.

but instead, i'll talk about going to burn down the ones -- the fire's going to spread. this age of cynicism that we're it's going tend to up doing living in. something to what you do care about. it's not new that many >> yeah. and i have no doubt that, and republicans in the house of representatives and many, many few should, that this man would get away with whatever he could republicans in the senate see get away with. that's why he's pushing the with clear eyes who donald trump boundaries right now. ed, i'm curious, so much has is, what he's doing, and been happening in the united understand the damage that he is states over the past several days that we overlooked the fact doing to our institutions, to that there's going to be yet our national security, and yet another election in britain in december. tell us about it and tell us they follow. and it's cynical self-interest what the cops consequences of that. in a lot of cases. >> use consequences. last night, of course, was halloween, october the 31st and and so it was a historic day boris johnson had been promising ever since he became prime yesterday. but, to those republicans, it minister that if britain didn't leave europe by halloween then he would rather die in a ditch. was, okay, it's a vote on the process and really the party well, they sent search parties line is that the process is all out today and his body is not in flawed and it's not actually a any ditch so maybe that's a

vote on the -- on the merits of broken promise, i don't know. this election is an incredibly sort of fluid one. the case against donald trump. it's really, really hard to so why should i stick my neck predict. it is worth noting that donald trump is rooting for boris out and get it chopped off by a johnson. in fact, he called in to the tweet? they all swear an oath and they radio show yesterday, trump live swear an oath to the called in to talk to nigel constitution. they don't swear an oath to donald trump. but their oath is more towards farage, and to urge him to form self-preservation and their own an election pact with boris johnson's conservative party. political prospects and their if that does happen, then i think it looks like we're going own political future and they to get a boris -- we're going to see it threatened if they stand up honestly and tell the truth. get a conservative party victory and so they won't do it. on december the 12th. a defeat for jeremy corbin, >> well, part of this, though, labor party jeremy corbin and has a difference between -- has full speed ahead to brexit if a lot do with the difference between the house and the the is pretty unprecedented for senate. in the house you have gerrymandering districts this that have gotten increasingly an american president to intervene in a british election and say who you should vote for. you remember barack obama when gerrymandered and increasingly partisan over the past 20 years. he made a gentle suggestion the united states senate, the republican senators that are during the brexit campaign that going to be looking at this, britain would go to the back of the queue if it voted to leave

susan collins who a lot of europe, he was pillaring on fox. republicans believe is going to lose her seat. cory gardner in colorado, i had trump is openly backing one one senior republican telling me party. he's gone. >> and, gene robinson, if, in he's just not going to win. fact, the conservatives win, thom tillis in north carolina then labor will finally show who's in the fight for his jeremy corbin the door. political life as well. >> yeah, i mean, that's one of who else do we have? maine, colorado -- yeah. the big problems in this whole so in a lot of these states, mess in britton, which kind of four or five republicans. makes our mess look simple is and then add mitt romney on top of that. susan del percio, they're going jeremy corbyn, the leader of the labor party who is simply to have some tough choices to make. especially in maine susan collins already in trouble because of her brett kavanaugh vote. now if she becomes a rubber unacceptable to most bryitains,i stamp for donald trump and tells believe. he'll have to go if labor does the people of maine she's perfectly fine with him using lose and then there will be a his political office and using new laborer and maybe british u.s. foreign policy to dig up politics will begin to straight dirt on a family member of the ten self out, or maybe not. maybe, you know, it continues to political opponent, she might as well start packing her bags five minutes after that vote. >> well, you're right, joe. reel out of control. but what i also think is to the this is a strange moment we're

living through. senators' advantage is that they >> all right. ed luce and gene robinson, thank can watch everything unfold in the house. because this will be moving to you both for being on on this the public phase. so they -- the house will be very important morning. gene, we'll be reading your making their case, they'll be presenting it not with latest piece for the "washington post" entitled the facts are five-minute questions from only going to get worse for members of the house but rather trump. professional staffers which is a still to come, the president very important thing. so you can build up a momentum says he wants to bring back the in questioning witnesses. fireside chat as a way to defend and let's see what happens. himself against impeachment. in the "new york times," peter when you look at the way this is baker joins the discussion ahead rolling out from all the things on "morning joe." back in two minutes. ahead on "morning joe." that happened behind closed back in two minutes. (contemplative synth music) doors, there's a lot more information that can happen in - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. front of the public. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself i think the house is wise. nancy pelosi is wise to move into a base you can empty once a month. this forward. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, i think seeing public testimony it cleans row by row. next week or i should say or the if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. release of the testimony next week to the public is critical. and now they can be building you may have gingivitis. when you brush, their case. and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, and let's see what happens once that happens. receding gums, and possibly... that's where the senate, they tooth loss. are the jurors, they get to have help turn back the clock on gingivitis time and for the public to also with parodontax. leave bleeding gums behind. parodontax. make their opinions. and, as we know, whether you're

democrat or republican, most of them look at the polls and see which way the wind is blowing. so these republicans may end up being in a position where it's advantageous to them to actually vote for impeachment if the case is properly made. >> well, let's see what happens. certainly yesterday was a big step. let's see what happens if john bolton does, in fact, testify. >> huge. >> his attorney was in federal court yesterday for another client, but suggested that john bolton would also ask the federal court system whether he should comply with the subpoena or not. i suspect they will tell him to do that and then that testimony actually could be extraordinarily significant. jim vandehei, i want to circle back to what ed luce said before, talking about this being a postally the rate america, donald trump being a postally

the rate presidepost literate p you heard the president after there are things we would change about work. the vote talking to several different people and still tweeting about his, quote, and there are things we wouldn't. transcript when he knows it ♪ wasn't a transcript. the top of that memo said it was when work is worth it. not a transcript. work is worth it. and we have found out ever since it's not a transcript. work can be closer to home... are republicans running down a pay more... make us proud. careerbuilder. whistleblower and just -- just work can work. find your work at careerbuilder.com another horrendous act rtrying o reveal the identity of a whistleblower whose claims have all been verified first person by key principles in this act welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour and it's friday, november 1st. itself, and yet they -- they are still with joe, willie and me we behaving as if donald trump have donny deutsch and supporters are illiterate. republican strategist and msnbc they are acting as if donald trump supporters are too stupid political analyst susan del percio. and joining the conversation, to read. they, of course, are not. political writer for "the new but this is a post literate york times" and msnbc political

analyst nick confessore and president who has time and time former chief of staff to the again, even this week, lied dccc and former director of about what's been going on in strategic communications for hillary clinton's presidential washington, d.c. trusting that campaign, msnbc contributor americans will be too busy or adrienne elrod. chief white house correspondent just disinterested in actually for "the new york times" peter baker joins us. reading what's on paper in black and usa today opinion columnist and white. and former senior adviser for >> you started the segment with the house oversight and government reform committee, a beautiful, deep history lesson kurt bar della. good to have all of you on board both for the world and for this hour. america. but the piece of history that >> a lot going on today. matters most right now is the of course we framed the day with last 15 years. the house moving forward in the post cable era, in the officially, joe, with post social media era, in this impeachment yesterday. >> yep, no doubt about it. era where we've moved away from it was a very big day yesterday people who don't share our political views, we are so and why don't we -- alex, do we deeply tribal. have any -- any sound from that? and color me skeptical, i never let's go to that. thought any republican was going to vote to open the inquiry. and it was very monumental day this isn't popular or cable or twitter. i don't know what republicans people are talking to when they and here's speaker pelosi think the damn could break in talking about it. >> we must honor the the senate. mitt romney is the only one constitution and how we do this.

saying stuff critical and you've we must respect the institution got to pull teeth out of him to we serve. get him to talk critically about so hopefully as we go forward the president of the united states. yes, there might be a swing with this for the clarity of purpose, the clarity of state republican or two that procedure, a clarity of fact, a might feel pressure to buckle. but you've got to get to 20 clarity of truth. it's about the truth, it's about where the president's favors are the constitution. 80 or 90%, where he's more >> trying to put a ribbon on a sham process doesn't make it any popular than most of the less of a sham. >> democrats are trying to senators in their state. impeach the president because they are scared they cannot and you're going dell to tell mt defeat him ballot box. >> this is unprecedented. twechbt tho this is soviet-style rules. 20 of those senators, i can't see any of them splitting from >> what we're seeing among the president. that's a sad state of politics. where it's so trooip tribibal w democrats on the intelligence committees down in the scif right now is like a cult. feel they won't turn on these are a group of people president trump. mitt romney has been honest about this. loyally following their leader if you turn on him, you will be as he bounces from one primaried. if you turn on him you will outlandish conspiracy theory to lose. that's the lesson of the last four years. another. when people say this is >> so lawmakers approve the different, this is different, people have been telling you resolution 232-196 largely along that for four years. it's never different. the outcome has always been the party lines. but you hear the republicans,

same in the trump era. maybe i'll be proven wrong, but joe, calling this even -- i mean, they have this sort of until i see republicans talking point that this is a substantively break with the president, say it publicly, vote soviet-style operation. it seems like an extremely poor it publicly, i'm going to continue to the default option that, no, they're with him choice of words given that all roads in this inquiry and all through thick and thing. the questions surrounding this his favorable numbers have not moved. his popularity has not moved. presidency seem to lead back to by the way, we keep showing that impeachment number that more and vladimir putin. >> if i were a republican, i more people want him impeached. would stay as far away from a ask nancy pelosi about the polls they're looking at in the swing hammer and sickle as humanly districts, in the swing states. they don't say the same thing. they say that it's actually possible. because that man right there, upside down. donald trump, has had a bizarre fewer people want him impeached. so we're just in this weird relationship with former soviet political moment and i do believe social media, cable, kgb agent vladimir putin. he has had a bizarre polarization has made us tribal. this is our reality till it's relationship with russia. he has had his -- even -- you know what? nick, it's crazy, there are even not. >> and, jon, it's interesting. people who believe that donald jim's exactly right, that's the trump is on the take with state of things right now. this was also the state of vladimir putin. things in, say, october early he's been bought off by vladimir november of 1973. putin and it has impacted what he has said on the campaign

this was actually the state of trail. and of course i speak of kevin things in early summer 1974. mccarthy, majority leader who actually said that he believed and i know that, i've told the back during the campaign that he story often about my father believed that vladimir putin was being a nixon supporter and believing it was a conspiracy paying off a congressman and going back to the days that he donald trump. and yet there he was on the went after aljer his. floor with hammers and sickles defending a man who has ignored every single warning from all of the tapes ca the tapes came out and my father his intel agents saying that said if he has done half of what this suggests he is unfit to american democracy's greatest hold any office. we're not going to get there, threat was russian interference. but i do wonder, though, talking about the age that we're in, i >> that rank hypocrisy has hit do wonder if we're in an age now where the only thing that could this president in some way, shape or form was a democrat, these people would be absolutely threaten donald trump would be a losing their minds. cronkite moment on vietnam >> and kevin mccarthy said asking what the hake is goiell n during this republican meeting during the campaign, there's two people, i think, putin pays. in vietnam. only this time it's a fox news moment, a rupert murdoch moment rohrabacher and trump. that breaks it at some moment. swear to god. >> because it normalizes. >> and along the way it's been

>> but i am saying until more striking that this president seems to be illiterate of the facts or illiterate of the law people at fox news confront the or illiterate of the values that constitutional crisis that we have in front of us, confront this country is formed around. but at the same time you have to the fact that a president of the wonder when he sets it up and united states has decided to twist u.s. foreign policy for actually says on national television i would take dirt the purposes of digging up dirt from a foreign power on a on a domestic political political rival, it's almost as if he is setting it up to opponent, that tribalism explain to america that there's a new way of doing business in continues. >> that's a really good point. this white house. i like what a dictatorship looks are we in an age where sean like. i like what -- what bursting hannity is walter cronkite? through norms looks like. he has told us every step of the way what he is going to do. let's get some drinks to see if and it all has focused on we can get through that. it's an interesting test. serving vladimir putin's you know, i think jim's got the interests. >> everything nancy pelosi said data, he's got the numbers. it, all roads lead to vladimir it's like when earl long once putin. you look at our foreign policy, said, what are you going to do vladimir putin has been the big now, the feds have the bomb. winner. so i think kevin mccarthy's right. vandehei's got the data. i think that there is a strange i will say if we had been having relationship between donald

this conversation a hundred trump and vladimir putin. so mccarthy, and he said, swear years ago, almost exactly 1990 to god, that's what he believed. teen we would be in the middle i'm not exactly sure what of clan fervor, two to 6 million changed, but i think kevin was right then that there is americans joined the klan. the 1924 democratic national something strange going on. we don't know what it is. convention had 347 klan we just know, peter baker, that delegates, they went to 103 -- republicans decided to stand next to hammer and sickles because they wouldn't vote for yesterday on the house floor and the irish governor of new york talk about soviet-styled because it was seen as the is inquiries and not a single one of them voted for an inquiry her rsharia law of the age. that would look into the known they did the right thing. harding and coolidge made the facts about donald trump right kinds of noises. withholding military assistance so there are these -- we're from a democratic ally who was always in a fever until we're invaded by vladimir putin and not. the rise of the klan took about russia. >> yeah. we're in a very polarized time. 14 years to settle, to rise and yesterday's vote i think then fall in the 20th century. demonstrated how much the parties have coalesced even more the mccarthy era took four years. we went from lincoln's birthday 1950 to the end of 1954, you so than 20 years ago when you and i were in congress and i was mentioned watergate. i understand that the watching the clinton

infrastructure may be different impeachment. 20 years ago, of course, 31 in terms of our information, but democrats voted for the inquiry it's hard to imagine that we're into president clinton. they didn't vote for the impeachment, they voted to at least look at it first, they hugely more intrinsically thought that was the political divided than in an era like a imperative at the time, you to hundred years ago when we were look like you cared enough to moving from agrarian to have an inquiry in those districts that they represented. industrial, rural to urban, and this time around there's no radio was coming along which was republican that felt they needed politically to look like they a disorienting technology. even wanted to have an inquiry >> right. >> and anti-immigration. and only two democrats went the there was a governor of georgia other direction. i think what you're seeing alled who was a member of the dloon have foreshadowing the vote we're going to have probably in three, four, five, six weeks. sa klan who said we need to build a at this point it's easier to wall of steel as high as heaven vote if you're a republican to to keep immigrants out in 1920. have an inquiry to look into it we have been in these moments than it is to vote for an and we've come out of them. article of impeachment alleging the key is how do we come out of a high crime and misdemeanor. this? i think we have to do it by, as the idea that republicans are going to come on board with this you say, some republicans, some impeachment seems to be pretty much faded absence some sort of people who have been in the change in our understanding of trump camp saying, you know what happened. some sort of explosive new piece what? we are tro follow our better of evidence beyond what we've angels and not our worst already seen. so that means we're going to instincts. >> and that infrastructure, that probably have a party-line media infrastructure we're impeachment and that has the talking about today is very different because it allows lies senate suggest therefore that there could be a party line, you to fly around unchecked and you know, trial in the house. whether that's good or not,

have a presidency that's people will make that judgment. promulgating the lies or even but it's -- it's playing out the saying get over it. it's a completely different way it looked like it was going landscape. to play out from the beginning so speaking of fox news and people stepping up, the question with the parties divided into is will we have more people like their camps and playing their this? take a look. part in the war over donald >> it was a lot more than a phone call about the it was a coordinated campaign. and what you've heard from bill trump. >> and not a single republican taylor and fiona hill and a voted for this resolution which moves it into the public phase where the public will hear some number and colorado colonel vindman and others is this was a of these interviews and listen to the witnesses for themselves. coordinated campaign by people outside the regular diplomatic obviously republicans again channels of the state department to put pressure on ukraine to do yesterday moving further away from the substance and going out certain things, to investigate to kinko's and making placards. the democrats from what they didn't in 2016, to investigate biden that preceded the phone call on july 25th and followed but they weren't talking about the phone call after july 25th. vindman who family fled the >> so, willie, of course chris soviet union when he was 3 years wallace always, always telling old. they talk about in being secret. it like it is. now the democrats have moved it out of the scif and into the public view in the coming weeks. and, of course, before she smp h >> yeah, they're running out of options here. they focussed so much on process, but now they're getting to the point where this is going

to be an open, public testimony. smith left, there are others who do that. nancy pelosi is making sure that this process will be as but, it is, again, there are transparent as humanly possible. we're getting to a point now certain people who talk to trump where they are running out of options because they don't want to focus on the substance because the substance is not on followers who follow, actually, their side. trumpism because they know you're also seeing republicans that's where a lot of their who are playing to a fox news supporters come from. a lot of their listeners come audience, which is their base. this is now the republican party. we've been saying this for a from. long time, but this is a and judge thnapolitano said the reiteration, this party is the party of donald trump. and these guys have no other are plain to see. option if they want to get process soon to be as re-elected than go out there and show that they are standing with republicans have demanded with proof of impeachable detectives trump, they are defending trump plain to see, which they are, to in every single way that they what will the president's allies can, even if it is at their own resort to as a defense? peril. because i look at these votes, i so, willie, again, it's look at the vote yesterday, i interesting we're all -- so look at future votes and if i you're talking about fox news or was run running a democratic twitter or facebook. campaign that was challenging a that's what we're faced with right now. but you and i, since we've started this show, i mean, the republican opponent in a tough media landscape has changed district, i would say let's look radically even since then. at the votes and see which ones it's going to change radically we can can use against the

republicans. again over the northwest five, ten years. because at some point, you've this -- what we are confronting got to look more about defending the constitution as defending today is not going to be with us one human being who is sitting forever. >> that's right. in the oval office. and chris wallace and shep smith before he left fox news and >> kurt, donny deutsch. everybody's saying what does trump do now? judge napolitano and there are obviously we can't have the others at fox news who will tell process argument, the facts the truth when that's called argument. i think he showed his hand for. but the idea that sean hannity yesterday that he broke a new ad campaign where he talks about or anybody in prime time in fox his accomplishments, fighting news which are the people who fire up the fox news viewers and isis and the economy. fire up the president's base are it ends with and we know he's not mr. nice guy, but maybe going to turn on president trump, i think, is preposterous. that's the kind of person you need to change washington. i think that's going to be their last defense. he did it, he's got sharp elbows, he punches, breaks a few rules, but don't we kinda need i think the appeal is as jon that? and i think they showed it said, if the evidence supports yesterday with those sets of words that, yes, he's not mr. impeachment, some of these senators who may have supported nice guy. donald trump all along, who may >> and, donny, i call. be in the swing district, you listed some of the names, the question for them, forgive me colonel jess suppoop from a few for being idealist, is did you enter the united states congress men, you're damn right did i it. to pledge fealty to a man or did and we go to there's nothing to see here and well, yeah, he did you enter the united states it but it doesn't matter. congress to pledge allegiance to we saw the rhetoric of jim

jordan on the house floor the constitution? calling it a sham process. if you see something that's bad for america, if you see everybody needs to understand something that's counter to the something here. republicans have had the constitution, is it not your job majority in congress for the last 25 years. to act on that and vote on that, the rules for deposition, the again, if the evidence supports rules for investigations, the it? and if you get voted out, you rules that the democrats have used for this process originated get voted you out. is your job as a senator or from republicans. congress person so precious that deposition authority originated during the clinton you will work against the country and the constitution to administration impeachment keep it? no job is worth that. trials. the republicans used 140 >> it's really not. depositions against clinton officials, including the white jim vandehei, thank you very house chief of staff, the vice much. still ahead on "morning joe," a house democrat who voted for the president's chief of staff, first lady's chief of staff. impeachment inquiry while jim jordan himself in 2016 representing a district that advocated to expand deposition donald trump won in 2016. authority to every congressional committee in congress during republican rule. new york's rose joins the so to watch them now go around and say this is a sham process, conversation next on "morning if that's really the case, they joe." next on "morning joe." have nobody to blame but themselves because democrats are only using the standard of investigative oversight that they set for themselves. they issued hundreds of subpoenas in the obama administration during the

benghazi proceeding. they interviewed more than 60 people in depositions that were, by the way, closed doors in the scif. no one had a problem with that during those times. it's remarkable to watch these republicans betray the oversight principles that they so forcefully championed for the last 20 years. >> it wasn't soviet then, the scif was a secret chamber then new york's rose joins the new york's rose joins the ♪ either. so nick confessore, we should add that adam schiff announced yesterday that the transcripts will be made public because it's there are things we would change about work. one of the talking points we've heard from republicans. we don't have access to the and there are things we wouldn't. transcript, meanwhile many of them were in the room with the ♪ opportunity to ask questions, they could go back and report it when work is worth it. out to their republican colleagues. democrats have called the bluff work is worth it. of republicans time and again. conversation next on "morning nancy pelosi said, okay, we'll conversation next on "morning have this vote. they had it yesterday, it make us proud. passed, they moved forward. careerbuilder. adam schiff says we'll produce work can work. find your work at careerbuilder.com the trimtanscripts, they'll be e public. >> yesterday on the house floor that life of the party look you saw the president's party in walk it off look essence vote against his due

one more mile look process rights that they've been reply all look own your look... complaining about for weeks and weeks because that's what that ...with fewer lines. vote was about. there's only one botox® cosmetic. i'm thinking today about the it's the only one... clinton impeachment which ...fda approved... happened when i was a very young ...to temporarily make frown lines... reporter. ...crow's feet... ...and forehead lines... and what i recall was that the ...look better. the effects of botox® cosmetic, may spread hours to weeks after injection, democrats, their chief message, right, was not process, it was causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away the underlying acts for which as difficulty swallowing, he's being impeached are not really a big deal. speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness and the point is that the may be a sign of a life-threatening condition. american public agreed with them. it was bad, it was tawdry, but do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyebrow, eyelid drooping, not impeachable. and eyelid swelling. here what i see is republicans tell your doctor about your medical history, shifting back and forth from one muscle or nerve conditions, message to another and they and medications including botulinum toxins can't decide if they want to go all in on the idea that a quid as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. pro quo is just fine and dandy. so, give that just saw a puppy look. i think we'll come back to that and whatever that look is. look like you... with fewer lines. mess a message pretty soon. having a process argument for see results at botoxcosmetic.com months and months and months is a weak hand to play and democrats have seen that on you get more than yourfree shipping.ir, their side and the gop's going to see it on their side. you get everything you need for >> you know, peter baker, doing your home at a great price,

the way it works best for you, the mueller investigation, i'll take that. wait honey, no. despite the fact that there were when you want it. ten instances of obstruction of you get a delivery experience justice, the possibility of you can always count on. obstruction of justice, despite you get your perfect find at a price to match, the fact that mueller testified on your own schedule. that, perhaps, donald trump you get fast and free shipping on the things that would have been indicted but he couldn't even consider that make your home feel like you. because of the presidency, that's what you get when you've got wayfair. despite all of the information so shop now! about the president's improper actions towards russia, i always but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. told my friends and people that it lets you know when you go too fast... asked -- it's really hard to ...and brake too hard. remove a president. with feedback to help you drive safer. and i always brought up the giving you the power to actually lower your cost. clinton impeachment. i remember lindsey graham coming in and, you know, with a red unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. face and telling the republican caucus he's done, i've watched now that you know the truth... these private -- these private are you in good hands? depositions, he's finished and beyond the routine checkups. republicans kept convincing beyond the not-so-routine cases. themselves that bill clinton was comcast business is helping doctors done for.

provide care in whole new ways. and, of course, he wasn't. so here we find ourselves in i all working with a new generation of technologies think a situation even worse. powered by our gig-speed network. and yet you don't have a single because beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. president proving once again just how difficult it is to every day, comcast business is helping businesses remove a president of the united states even if that president go beyond the expected. has weakened the country, to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond. misused his office, and held up military aid for a democratic power invaded by russia. >> yeah. look, i mean, you're exactly right. the framers meant it to be difficult, right? they made a 2/3s requirement to remove a president from office. the assumption is if you have a 2/3s vote that reflects a larger consensus of the country. it's not going to be one party removing a president of the other party. that's one thing we learned from the clinton impeachment that a party-line impeachment will not remove a president from office. and that's -- the polls in the "washington post" i think demonstrate just how divided this country is right down the middle.

49% for, 47% against, 82% of trying to put a ribbon on a democrats for, 82% of sham process doesn't make it any less of a sham. republicans against. >> democrats are trying to and that kind of environment it's hard to build a 2/3s case impeach the president because they are scared they cannot defeat him at the ballot box. in the senate to convince people that this is an overwhelming, >> this is unprecedented. you know, idea of removing a it's not only unprecedented, president that we do that. this is soviet-style rules. i will add what nick said. nick is exactly right that their >> welcome back to "morning joe." we've got donny deutsch joining democratic argument 20 years ago our conversation. was, yeah, did he it but it also with us member of the house wasn't that big a deal. homeland security and veterans it wasn't impeachable, it wasn't affairs committees, democratic a high crime misdemeanor. you're not hearing that today. congressman max rose of new york. he's a veteran of the war in they did play a process argument afghanistan, a recipient of the 20 years ago and it worked in bronze star and the purple their favor the same wait heart. great to have you with us. republicans are doing it now. >> good to see you too. it's almost taken from the same happy belated halloween. playbook. the reason you have a process >> happy halloween to you. argument is to make sure it's a let's talk about the vote yesterday. party-line vote, to make sure you voted for the resolution to it's an us versus them choice. move forward and make this as long as it's an us versus public now. why did you vote that way? them choice, this is what bill >> yesterday was definitely i've now been a member of congress clinton's democrats did, if it's for close to a year. us versus then, then it falls yesterday was the saddest day of along the party lines and you'll my time in congress. never have a conviction in the senate. that's what the clinton camp this is a comb did, that's what the trump camp is trying to do now. this is a somber moment. no one comes to congress wanting the allegations are different to impeach the president of the

united states. but at this point i do believe and the substance of them are different, maybe the seriousness that these allegations are of them are different, but the incredibly credible and they're process argument plays out the very serious. and this action for me revolves same way. >> so, donny, to talk about ha around an anticorruption issue. >> did the president of the united states use the apparatus of the state along with his cronies or associates or democra whatever you'd like to call them what democrats should do to avoid the overreach, that's the to advance his own self-interest, not the interest of the state? not the interest of the american people. so right now we are asking greatest danger politically for questions on behalf of the democrats, that they're seen as american people and in defense overreaching, that's why nancy of the constitution. pelosi played it brilliantly and that's what we came to when people were immediately congress do. >> and so let me ask you about calling for donald trump's the criticism you heard from jim impeachment, nancy pelosi smartly waited until the facts jordan, steve scalise and others and public opinion caught up that this was somehow a secret with those that wanted to move operation, soviet style was the forward with an impeachment term they used in a secret inquiry. what are the dangers moving forward? chamber known as the scif down >> the dangers moving forward is in the basement of the capitol. how do you respond to that that to get too diluted and to start they didn't get their fair to move all over the place. they've got to keep it a simple hearing? >> i'm still at the point where i can remember what it's like not to be a member of congress. you turn on the news, he story. and they've got to keep it a remember seeing the news when i simple story that he messed with was deployed to afghanistan. you become so frustrated with our national security, with your national security. politics. so frustrated because it seems you know, if yaw fastforward to

that elected officials now have january when this is done, the more allegiance to their own assumptions are going to be he's party and to their next re-election than they do to going to get impeached in the actually advancing the interests house and not convicted in the of the american people. senate. here we are at a very serious and he's still at 41%, 42% and moment, a somber moment, but a he'll still be there then. how does this set you up for the moment that can help build the presidential campaign? future for the united states of that's what sets it up. america. it's not about ukraine. and to see these elected it's about he will compromise officials who i believe in their everything. he played with your national heart deep down in side is in the right place, but to see them security the same way he's going to play with your healthcare, putting politics first -- >> is they're heart in the right place? i have to push -- congressman, the same wehle way he'll play w i'm not seeing their heart in the right place. >> i am still an optimistic -- >> okay. >> -- hopeful person. everything. i keep coming back to a simple story. if you're going to sell a >> that's because it's only been a year you've been in congress. product and basically say a >> what is happening right now, simple story how does this to answer your question, what is affect you? happening right now is we're the simple story is he basically moving to the next stage of this would even play with your process. moving to the public stage. and i am praying for steve national security for his own personal self-interest. what else would he compromise scalise and kevin mccarthy that they're going to start to put and has he compromised? the country first. >> well, and we have -- we have i wouldn't have gotten into this business, i wouldn't have run in across the bottom of the screen the district that i ran in if i was not hopeful that people can a new poll, "washington do the right thing.

>> i do believe those characters post"/abc news poll that shows that we saw on there, they will americans are slit over whether donald trump should be impeach not -- their hearts are not in and removed from office. the right place and they will not get there. having said that, i do think to 49% of americans believe i pick up on the last segment, i should be both impeached and removed from office. do think there's a handful we're still looking at today what it 47% disagree there. and we'll just see how fluid looks like. let's fastforward and we've those numbers are. i think, again, the next big watched vindman in his uniform talk about and use the words, he development, susan ha, is going put our national security at risk. to me, let's also think about be whether john bolton john bolton saying we haven't testifies. if bolton does testify, here is seen that theater yet. a man that has been seen as a and i think that particularly if conservative and a hero of the the democrats and nancy pelosi could strategically cannot make conservative movement for over a this complicated, i don't want quarter of a century. to make it about ukraine and it it's going to be impossible to comes down to they have played with your national security. paint this man who called this bring it back to the kitchen ukraine deal giuliani's drug table. it's not abstract, it's not deal. military aid, it's not ukraine, it's going to be impossible to paint him as some east coast it's not about the bidens, it is about that this president, his elite or some deep state actor. john bolton will tear the head primal main purpose is to protect us and he basically now off of anybody of any conservative, of any trumpist made you at homeless safe. that dares make that claim against him. >> that's right, joe. and that's what also a lot of

our national security, your national security is at risk, the republicans are very afraid that's something that can of when they're trying to gain, you know, stay with donald trump on this. they don't know what's going to resonate. >> it's bicker than thatgger th happen next. they don't know what bolton will the question here is him advancing his own self-interest. say. they don't know what trump will say so they get very nervous. >> but the "b" that matters to a voter is how does it affect me. the bigger problem is that donald trump is starting to that's the "a." i'm saying from the "a" to "b." >> i'll tell you why it affects pressure republicans to say i the voter. was right, agree with me. it's not just the president who's potentially advancing his tell them everyone it was a self-interest. it's the pharmaceutical perfect call. that messaging -- i don't think companies in washington, d.c. who are jacking up the price of the republicans can hold it. pharmaceutical drugs each and every year. and, kurt, i wonder how you it's the whole edifice of think that conflicting messaging corporate pacs. the president saying everything's perfect and the >> you've got to keep it simple. republicans in the house saying, for this impeachment process well, it wasn't what i would do you've got to keep it simple. >> there's nothing more simple but and how that can play out as than an anticorruption message. far as when we start hearing >> congressman, based on what testimony? you've seen and what we've seen >> you know, i think like most publicly already, do you believe the president has committed things, impeachment's can be impeachable offenses? >> well, that would be -- i don't think that that would be made or broken by the performance at the hearing. the responsible way to approach this. i meant it when i said that we this is an area where i think about elijah cummings, how much are asking questions on behalf he will be missed, someone who of the american people right

now. in the face of these hearings the allegations are incredibly always kept his composure, always kept his poise, was credible, okay. they are backed up by multiple always on message, and was people. and what's interesting, though, always strategic. is what you see the republican and when you have witnesses -- party doing in response to this. we've seen it with the cory first they say, look, this is a secret process, we're not asking lewandowski hearing and the mueller hearing how these things can do differently. questions. their people were right in there it's going to come down to the asking questions. performance on the democrats on then they storm the scif as the hearing diyas to be able to their own colleagues are there maintain the composure, have the asking questions. then they say this has to be strategy coming in, approach it public. and as we move to this next like a courtroom and phase, they still vote against examination, get the witnesses it. to tell the story. so i look forward to seeing next if you can get the witnesses to week how they're going to move tell the stories that they are the goal post, because they do telling right now in those not want to look at the facts, depositions, that could be they do not want to ask potentially devastating to trump. questions, and they don't want i think the fact that we're already up to 49% of americans to put the country first. saying that they agree that the that's incredibly disappointing. president should be impeached and removed, that's before we've >> and republicans have said we can't see the transcripts of the had this tv show really of interview yesterday, adam schiff impeachment. said i'm putting those out next this is just with the week too. gene robinson has a question for information we know that's coming out from leaked excerpts you, congressman. >> congressman, what do you hear from your constituents? of transcripts. are they willing to look at the facts? imagine what that number could do they push back when you talk grow to if they are able to tell to them? what are you hearing? >> yeah, so, look, my this compelling story and if democrats are able to hold their constituents just like all

american people are very smart. line against what will i think they're wise and i think undeniably be the republicans that they are committed to doing these antics and talking putting the country first here. about things and trying to what they want in an elected distract from the substance of official is someone who's going the investigation. to show integrity, someone who's i think at the end of the day impeachment will be make or going to actually not think about the immediate poll, but break by the hearings. think about doing the right >> kurt, thank you very much for thing. my election is more than a year being on. away, so some people are pissed off and some permanent elated >> kurt, we really do appreciate and some people aren't even your insights and they're so aware of what's going on. valuable. you've seen the same republicans that are talking about but right now what's important is us doing our job and continuing to earn the trust of the american people. we're not just in a fact-finding mission right now. we in a trust-building exercise. and that is the way that soviet-style ant ticksoviet government should actually work. >> congressman, do you think soviet-style antics. this can be done by look at these soviet-style thanksgiving? antics that we drafted, that we there's some concern about whether this is going to bleed drew up, that we expanded. in the primaries, the senate trial in january/february. they are calling themselves do you think the timing here is do you think nancy pelosi has soviet-style stooges for donald got control of the timetable? trump. so, kurt, thank you so much for >> if anyone is worried about actually telling truth to power. timing right now, if anyone is worried about the politics of this situation or the >> and jon meacham rejoins us.

presidential election, they he has a question for peter shouldn't be holding office. the only thing that we should be concerned with right now is baker. jon. >> just wondering whether the getting to the bottom of this reality show producer and chief and earning the trust of the is tuned in to this reality or american people in the process. when you think about it what's going insofar as you can yesterday, what i did was the tell what's actually unfolding second most serious thing that i could do as a member of in the president's mind and congress. imagination right now. >> well, i think what he looks second only declaring war. and that is initiating an impeachment inquiry of the at, his republican caucus as the president of the united states. be all and end all of his we cannot subject this to politics. unfortunately my colleagues success, right? look what he tweeted out after yesterday's vote. across the aisle, that's exactly what they're doing and two he didn't tweet out about, you know, the shame of being the wrongs don't make a right here. >> congressman, i want to follow third president in 40 years to be subjected to an impeachment up on what you said about how the president was basically inquiry. he tweeted out, i didn't lose a using taxpayer dollarstor single republican. so him, that's the measure of success, it always has been. i have 85%, 90% support among personal ga for further gain. i think question look at this republicans. further and say what's to stop he's rarely made an effort to the president from using other government entities because he get beyond the base that he came thinks can he do nothing wrong to office with, right? to hurt people, creating an he has not tried to expand his enemies list, getting the irs to coalition. he's the only president we've target certain people. that's where this argument needs ever had in the history of to go of how fundamentally wrong polling who never had the the president's actions were. what we value in this country is support of the majority of the american public even a single our freedom. day while in office. that's i had play.

and the president in many ways his play is keep the ones you came with, make them stick with is hurting that very concept. you, make it about us versus them. he's going to have three >> what's ironic here is the rallies, i think, in the next week that those will be us president ran on the very notion of draining the swamp. versus them opportunities to he ran on trying to upen make out how the democrats are coming after us in an unfair way. this is all about coming after not just about coming after me, it's about coming after you, that will be the argument he makes to his supporters. it resonates in those big arenas, i've been in there. it's loud and raucous and supportive of him. the question is whether he moves beyond that base and whether he can succeed one more time with that small base. look, if we have a democratic impeachment in the house and an acquittal or dismissal in the senate, the ultimate appeals court here is the american public which we didn't have with clinton onyx son because they were second term presidents. this time around if we have an impeachment and it doesn't go all the way toward removing him, the american public will be asked to weigh in. he's preparing in effect for that argument, and that argument is strictly to his base. >> all right. peter baker, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning

joe," our next guest says it all comes down to one simple principle. no one is above the law. this congresswoman serves on the committee and she joins us next. plus, with the serious twitter habit, president trump takes full advantage of modern forms of communication but apparently he's eyeing a blast from the past to make his case to the american people. we'll explain that straight ahead. people. we'll explain that straight ahead. it's been three months since i talked to people of our country about the things that have happened. many of them have helped the well-being of the average citizen. have helped the well-being of the average citizen. when you shop with wayfair,

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it was 232 versus 1 nine 6 and in fact two democrats were on your side of it. >> yes, that's right. this which is, you know, really something. i think what it means and what a

lot of people are saying because it's a hoax. and high crimes and misdemeanor dollars. what's a high crime and misdemeanor when you have a very appropriate conversation? >> president trump calling in to a british radio show yesterday weighing in on the impeachment resolution in an interview with brexit party leader nigel farage. in an interview with the washington examiner back here in the states the president said, quote, this is over a phone call that is a good call. at some point i'm going to sit down, perhaps as a fireside chat on live television, and i will read the transcript of the call because people have to hear it. when you read it, it's a straight call. let's go to our fireside chat expert, jon meacham. jon, this is a long way from fdr to be sure, but let's establish first of all that we've not seen the transcript. how do we know this? because the summary the white house provided at that call right at the top on page one says this is not a transcript. >> yeah. the irony within ironies.

trump would give a duraflame and it would be a fake fireside chat. it seems to me that one of the reasons that donald trump is president is he has mastered the means of communication of his era. and he's mastered the vernacular, right? he understands social media, he understan understands how to program our national imagination. he understands reality programming in many ways. a story that peter was part of, peter baker, he said during the transition i'm going to treat every day of the presidency as an episode and a show in which i vanquished my rivals. and so that's his vision of this. you know, the fireside chat was fdr's way of reassuring the country. he became a character in the lives of the people. it was talked about how you could walk down a street in chicago when fdr was on the radio on sunday nights and hear

the whole speech because all the windows were open and he was talking. and that's a sentimental and nostalgic view, but it has the virtue of being true. the original fireside chats were about explaining complicated issues and restoring confidence. if trump were to try to use more traditional, you know, televised address, whatever it is, it would be mounting a defense. and i suspect that the people who would tune in would have already made up their minds. and that's the central -- if there's a central point right now, it's that people don't change their minds no matter what the facts are. the poll you just said 49/47, wasn't that the popular vote? 49 is for impeaching and removing? isn't that what secretary clinton got, two points or so? so we have -- we're disproving darwin. we're not evolving. we're not moving forward.

and so, to me, that's the great question. is can we look at facts and change our minds if the facts merit it? >> the title of your next book at the very least, disproving darwin by jon meacham. let's bring in the congresswoman part of the house intelligence committee that will be voted on by the house and it's great to have you with us. >> it's great to be here. >> i'm sure you can't wait to have the president read the transcript of the call. >> i can't. >> talk about the vote yesterday, what you took into account when you cast your vote and are your surprised that not a single republican voted with you? >> it was a serious moment on the floor. i think everybody understood the historic nature of it and what was at stake and that we were voting for our constitution. we were voting to uphold the democracy and that is what we were sworn in to do.

i don't think there was any joy in taking that vote. but, you know, when you have a president who is abusing power, who is asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival, interfere in our elections, and completely, you know, disregard the aid that congress had already appropriated, you have to take that on. and i think that's where everybody was when we took it on. was i surprised that the republicans, not a single republican voted? yes and no. i was surprised because at the end of the day republicans have to choose if they're going to vote for their constituents and the american people in the democracy that they were sworn to protect or if they're just going to back up the president at every step. i thought there would be a few more that would choose their constituents. i don't think that the founding framers really thought we would ever be in a position where you would have a president who was such a bully and would use the bully pulpit in that way and have so much control over the

rest of his party. and, you know, so i think we're coming up against some of the limits of our constitution, but i hope that at the end of the day we can preserve it. >> i always ask every time there's a senator or congresswoman, we know what the republicans do in public. do any of them -- you chat with them and they roll their eyes and go we wish he wasn't here. give me the kind of 400 some odd and -- >> yeah. >> is there a behind the scenes sanity and they're just not showing it or is the kool-aid really that genuine? >> no, i think that there are people, probably a similar number to during the nixon impeachment who really do think that some of these things are wrong. but, they are also relying on their own base. and so in certain districts where trump is develop, very popular, they are putting that first. and lincoln's quote who he molds

public sentiment is more powerful than either jurist or hose who make the laws. that's an important thing for republicans to understand. when he former republican senator gordon who was a washington state senator, he's 90 years old now, he actually broke with his party around the nixon impeachment. and he just came out and said the things that trump has done are impeachable and i don't know what my republican colleagues are doing. so they have to get that courage to break with the party and stand up for the constitution or we really will be in trouble. >> have you already seen enough evidence, just based on what you've seen and in fact woo s, we've seen out in public to impeach the president? do you think he's crossed that line? >> i think there's been an enormous betrayal of national security. we've outlined very clear due process protections here. stronger actually than either the clinton impeachment or the nixon impeachment for the president. so we need to make sure we see

all of that evidence before we make a decision. but i do think that, obviously, there are serious wrongdoings that have been committed. i thought that after i read the mueller report. what's unfolding now with ukraine is right in front of everybody. everybody can see this happening. and the strange thing about this particular situation is our most compelling witness was actually the first one early on who spoke directly to the american people. and that was the president of the united states. he said, we did this. even the fact that he wants to read the transcript in a fireside chat makes me think he really doesn't understand that -- or he is just ignoring that this is absolutely outrageous that he would ask a foreign ally to interfere for his political gain. >> and, in fact, adrienne, his chief of staff mick mulvaney went out in the white house briefing room and said, yeah, we did it, get over it before he was reeled back in and told to walk it back. >> that was quite a moment

there. there's a reason why mick mulvaney is still the acting chief of staff and why he's not always involved in all of these decisions made from the oval office. congresswoman, i want to go back to the resolution yesterday and focus on something nick fenced earlier, which is the fact that this resolution sustained the process, open hearings, transparency, open testimony's, public depositions. this is something the republicans have been so focused on, right? they've been focusing on process, process, process because i believe they don't have much to go on on substance. given the fact that every single republican voted against transparency, which is what they've been advocating for for so long, how do you think that impacts the process going forward? can they still really make that process argument when they actually voted against it yesterday? >> i think it's getting harder and harder. i've always said that if you're arguing about process and not content you've already lost. now they've got the process they were arguing for and, in fact, a little bit more than that, and they are now saying, well, that's not enough, we think the

whole thing needs to be restarted. and i just think that is -- it doesn't pass the smell test. and ultimately, you know, if the house votes to impeach, it obviously goes to the senate. the senate is the jury, but really it's the american people who are the jury. and i think republicans are going to have to be able to look themselves in the eye and look their constituents in the eye and say, i actually upheld the oath of office that i was sworn in to defend and protect. and i think that that's going to be very hard if they continue to just say things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever or back up the president on things that he says that are completely erroneous. our job is to make sure the process is fair, that we provide due process protections for the president as we go forward, which we have done. and also now that we make the case to the american people because it was important that some of these things were done behind closed doors because we didn't want one witness to, you

know, influence how -- what another witness said. and, the fact of the matter is, there were, i think, 72 or 74 members of congress in most of these depositions. >> right. >> that's a quarter of the house of representatives was in these depositions, republicans and democrats had equal time and the transcripts, as you know, are being released. they do need to be reviewed by the witnesses which is what takes time. now we will have these public-facing hearings. but there is -- there are plenty of due process protections and there need to be because we need to make sure the process is fair. but at the end of the day, we're counting on republicans as well to recognize that if we don't hold this president accountable, it doesn't just have impact for this administration, it has impact on every administration going forward. and our democracy is at stake. >> just a follow-up question, congresswoman. so bob mueller has laid out in his report some items or

offenses which are arguably obstruction of justice, criminal. is your committee considering incorporating those items into potential articles of impeachment? >> so the way the articles would work is they would be around a high crime and misdemeanor, if we were to draft them. and so you could imagine that the same pattern of obstruction that we are seeing right now in ukraine is actually what we saw with bob mueller's report. and also the efforts that we had on the judiciary committee to get to the bottom of what was in that report. so i would imagine that we would be able to bring some of these things in to those articles if, for example, it was obstruction of congress, obstruction of justice, those kinds of articles would probably, you know -- we could, if we decided to move down that route. i do think it's important not to get too broad if we were to go down this road. we really need to bring up just the most important things that violate our constitution and

show the abuse of power of a president who puts himself over the american people. >> all right. congresswoman, your district covers seattle, we'll let you catch your plane back to washington. thanks for being here this morning. >> thanks so much. still coming, the presidential candidates are locked in a tight race in the 2020 iowa caucuses. one candidate not in the top three in a new poll, joe biden. and as we go to break, a look at the world series champions, the washington nationals returning home to a water cannon salute at dulles airport yesterday. a large crowd turning out to meet the nats on the tarmac. ryan zimmerman leading the team off the plane waving a nats flag and lifting the commissioner's trophy behind him. we'll be right back. behind hi. we'll be right back. i'm bad.

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warren at 22%, slightly ahead of bernie sanders at 19%. mayor buttigieg is at 18%, joe biden at 17%. those top for candidates are statistically tied all within the polls 4.7 margin of error. adrienne, pete buttigieg's rise in iowa, he's got a bunch of money to play with. what we're looking at there is a race in that first voting state where, by the way, if you look inside this poll, 2/3s of the voters say they could change their minds. >> yeah. >> which is to say this is totally up for grabs. >> that's right. we are seeing the polls, of course, ebb and flow a little bit. but the real decision making starts to happen in december. in fact, what happens oftentimes is people go home for thanksgiving, they spend time with their family, they have long conversations and that's when you start seeing the race really gel starting in december. i think that's where you're still -- mayor pete had a strong performance in the last debate. i think you're seeing his numbers reflected in some of these polls, especially in iowa

where he's doing specially well and as a state is tailor made for him. it reflects the coalition of people that he's built under his campaign apparatus. but it is early. i think we will still see some ebbing and flowing. but to the point that you made, elizabeth warren has money to work where are so does mayor pete. joe biden is struggling a little bit. we'll see how the super pac comes in and plays. my understanding from sources is that the super pac will spin heavily on paid media in iowa. we'll see how it plays out. >> i think mayor pete will be standing for a long time. i think he is going to win iowa. he's an alternative. nobody's loving either direction and obviously the big knock on him is the african-american vote. but as reverend al says, a lot of african american vote waits to see is he electable? if he wins in iowa, there could be a mayor pete. >> i agree mayor pete opens up

as joe biden falls is that biden now is facing the opposite of when he came in. his poll numbers is the best to defeat donald trump help drive his polls nationally and state by state and vice-versa. now that he's falling, i really wonder if he can get up from that. >> the mistakes are high for all of them in this race but especially for biden in iowa. if you're the establishment pseudoincumbent candidate, which he is, i think that's a lot more damaging nan you're warren or somebody else. yes, biden can come strong in south carolina, but it's going to be hard for him. >> you've got to keep in mind it's slightly different this time around because you have the two most delegate heavy states now on super tuesday, texas and california. which i do believe 'joe biden has a strong performance in south carolina versus some of other early states krer ride thhe can ride that into the next state. >> you're hearing a little bit from the biden campaign and biden himself, watch me in south

carolina, as if to say he's kind of softening the ground for what may happen in iowa, what may happen in new hampshire. >> it's interesting, iowa, just a little pushback on iowa. you do sometimes have the mike . iowa tends to be an ab rigerrat. he can get passed iowa. i think the best thing to happen to joe biden is the impeachment because the idealized version of joe biden versus the real joe biden is better. >> again, four-way tie in iowa, but, again, two-thirds of likely caucus goers in the times poll says they could be persuaded to change their mind. coming up, the president took to twitter to accuse top ukraine expert alexander vindman, lieutenant colonel vindman, of being a never trump per without evidence after he testified against the president. we will look at the impact the actual resistance groups opposing the president have had

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now professor of sociology at the university of maryland, dana fisher, the author of the new book "american resistance, from the women's

march to the blue wave." good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> i think people hear the resistance and think immediately of the trump years, but obviously you go back further here. what is the through line in the resistance movements in america? >> one of the things that i would say is a consistency across resistance movements is the way it is challenging whatever is the dominant political perspective of the time, but most of the focus in the bock ok is really on beginn at the women's march that we saw this spark that united the resistance. it is threaded throughout. we still see it today but i trace it to the congressional districts during the midterm elections. >> so donald trump obviously has created an explosion of resistance movements. the women's march was the first one where i think the country looked at the images from the helicopters of the street and go, wow, people are upset about this. what is the real impact of them though? i mean obviously they're voicing concern of americans, but have they changed things in the country in terms of the way things are done in washington?

>> one of the things that i think was the largest effect of the resistance is really the fact that all of these predominantly middle age white women woke up, and they've stayed involved. they've done not just protesting in the street. they haven't just yesterday. they marched back into their congressional districts, into their communities shall and they got involved. they were very involved in the midterm elections and they're working towards 2020 right now. >> dana, you talk a lot about how the resistance organizations collectively came together in 2018 and really made a giant difference. do you think that momentum is going to keep going? do you see, you know, the women's march didn't have as many participants right after donald trump was ee lelected as did going forward. do you see this resistance effort still being able to make a giant difference in the 2020 presidential election? >> it is a really good question. i think at this point there's a lot of evidence that these organizations are continuing to work together. it is a very tenuous coalition, so we could see it breaking apart, but i don't predict it

will. but what i think is really interesting is while the women's march was this huge spike that, as i said before, ignited the resistance, if you look at the number of marches and the number of people who have come out in 2019 to participate in the streets and compare it to 2017 right after the inauguration and take out the women's march, we are talking about only a 9% decrease from 2009 to 2017. there's still a lot of people engaged and working consistency. >> dana, it is fascinating to consider what the connective tissue or mechanism is between street protests and elective politics. i wonder what you have learned in your research. these marches, have they translated into differences in turnout or candidacy or voting in a way that you can reliably demonstrate? there's a question about hashtag act tichl and street activism

and does it drive change at the ballot box. >> that's a great question. one of the things i do is do two waves of follow-up surveys with people marching in the streets. i look at what they did in their communities and congressional districts. what we saw in the six months prior to midterm elections was everybody that marched did so much more. they did it with a bunch of resistance groups, with a number of older groups like aclu but also participated with the democratic party working with candidates in their communities. that is what i think of as the connective tissues, those organizations play that really important role of channelling what we've seen as outrage from the streets into the districts. i think it will continue. >> following up on that as a way of kind of keeping people involved, we now have the impeachment hearings coming up, the inquiry. do you feel it will be something that will facilitate this more and keep the energy through 2020? >> i think that's true. i think what we're going to see is we will see a march. i don't know if it will be a big march. we probably will see a number of them, but there probably will be one big march. i know a number of groups have

called for them. what that will do is kind of set -- concentrate the outrage in a lot of ways in a lot of people who feel like they need to get in the streets, and then the organizations that coordinate the marches then take the energy and channel it wherever it is needed. so we'll see people participating, for example, around tomorrow's election in virginia, in new york, all over. we will see that continuing through 2020. >> and we're going to see presidential candidates channelling that energy as well. the new book is "american resistance: from the women's march to the blue wave." professor dana fisher, thank you for being with us. >> thank you for having me. coming up next on "morning joe" on ari melbourne joins us. for years rudy giuliani has billed him as a high-level security consultant, being named the president's security adviser in 2017. we have new reporting about how giuliani found himself locked out of his own iphone, raising

questions about his qualifications. "morning joe" back in 90 seconds. ♪ (contemplative synth music) - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot.

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theories, profiting off the presidency, and one person in washington turning the country upside down. only those warning weren't about president trump. they weren't at president trump. they weren't coming from the democrats. >> i could go abroad, make millions off my father's presidency. >> everywhere. >> i would be a really rich guy. it would be incredible. >> down in the scif is like a cult. these are a group of people loyally following their leader as he bounces from one outlandish conspiracy theory to another. >> for one man to turn this country upside down, to have this vote today, our founding fathers warned about this. >> and that could be called the art of projection. >> could also be called shamelessness, at an absolutely breathtaking pace back in the late '090s a lot of people talkd

about the death of shame. even the new republic taumd about t talked about the death of shame. >> here we are. >> here we are 20 years later and you see it among people who have spent their entire life enriched by their father's last name. republicans, it is really breathtaking, voted yesterday on whether to have an inquiry into whether the commander in chief compromised national security, and one of our democratic allies who had been invaded by russia, whether we should have an inquiry into whether he did make those compromises for his reelection campaign. we have the evidence already. it is out there. yet not a single republican -- you talk about a personality cult. >> yes. >> you talk about projection, there it is right there. you know what? it is -- at this point it is just sad. >> yeah. >> but, you know what? that's how they will be remembered by history and it is not going to be pretty.

>> well, if it was just sad, perhaps it would be okay but it is also really bad for our country. along with joe, willie and me, we have republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del% yo with us. u.s. national editor at the financial times, edward lose. pulitzer time winning editor, political analyst eugene robinson. jim vand au hide. historian and author of "soul of america," from john meacham. the house took a significant step forward in the impeachment inquiry of president trump. lawmakers approved a resolution 232-196, largely along party lines, to formalize the rules and guidelines for the public phase of the impeachment probe. the eight-page resolution lays

out the format for open hearings and would allow the president or his counsel to participate in impeachment proceedings held by the house judiciary committee. two democratic congressman, jeff van drew of new jersey and colin peterson of minnesota, broke with the party to vote against the resolution. both represent districts that donald trump won in 2016. independent congressman justin amash also voted with the democrats. up until this point republicans have largely complained about the impeachment process being behind closed doors, but house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff told msnbc last night that the process of releasing transcripts can now begin as early as next week. house speaker nancy pelosiy defended the resolution on the house floor during a news conference and with an appearance on late night television, framing the

investigation as a constitutional duty that must be carried out fairly. >> it provides the president and his counsel opportunities to participate, including presenting his case, submitting requests for testimony, attending hearings, raising objections to testimony given, cross-examining witnesses and more. and contrary to what you may have heard today, we give more opportunity to the -- to his case than was given to other presidents before. i don't know why the republicans are afraid of the truth. every member should support allowing the american people to hear the facts for themselves. >> benjamin franklin came out, they said, mr. franklin, what do we have, a monarchy or republic? he said, a republic if we can keep it. in the here and now we are keeping a republic, from a

president who says article two says i can do whatever i want. not so. >> it is about fairness, because as i said this is about the constitution and how we go forward with this, and no decision has been made to impeach. that's what the inquiry is about, but how we go forward is a test for us to do so worthy of the constitution, worthy of our founders' sacrifice when they established this constitution. >> so nancy pelosi. john meacham, i am still stuck on the fact not a single republican voted to launch this inquiry. obviously democrats did, to vote -- they voted to launch the inquiry on bill clinton, richard nixon. quite a few republicans obviously engaged early on in that process. here we have already had a president who has lied about the phone call, a president who has lied about the quid pro quo, a president who has lied about the, quote, transcript, the

president who has lied already and been caught about seeking dirt on joe biden's family, a president who has lied about twisting and retching u.s. foreign policy, and assistance to a democratic ally under attack from vladimir putin for his own political purposes, and not a single republican finds this worthy of inquiry. where does that put us as a republic? >> hmm. >> so i want mika to get ready to be really excited and interested in what i'm about to say. >> i'm waiting. >> i think we're almost -- are you ready? we are almost in a preenlightenment, prereformation world at the moment. >> right. >> it is as though the primacy of reason, which was the entire inside, that you could look at

data, you could observe reality and then form your views as opposed to being handed your views from on high, often from people who either by an accident of birth, who was a king, or an incident of election, of ecclisatical authority, they were the ones who were rulers and would interpret the world and you didn't have to worry about it. along comes literacy and the reformations and the translation of scriptures into the vernacular, the scientific revolution, the european enlightenment and suddenly individuals are at the center of the story and not simply in the audience waiting to be told what to do and what to believe. in the american revolution for all of its faults was, in fact, the clearest political manifestation of that insight. so when conservatives say -- modern day conservatives say they want to be true to the founding or they want to return

to the traditions of the american founding, the central tradition of the american founding is that you think for yourself. you observe what is happening and you decide what to make of it. you don't simply do what someone else tells you. you don't see it the way someone else tells you if they're on a certain cable network or if they won a certain election. the fact that no republican thinks that this is worth looking into suggests to me that passion and superstition and blind obedience have replaced reason for those people in this moment. >> well, great, great minds think alike. ed lose, you actually wrote a comment talking about how reason has been replaced by corruption, by nepotism, by this blind obsequiencs that blows past what

jefferson, madison, franklin, hamilton all talked about. again, that we actually use reason and you are not blindly following a monarch or the dictates of what an autocrat says. >> yes. well, what my column looks at is the really striking parallels between trump's america today and the way the president is conducting himself and the sort of right corruption of late medieval rome under the medicis when they used to buy the popeship, which it was plagued by three sins. one was the sale of office and one can't but think of gordon sondland, the ambassador to the eu and his million dollar donation to the trump inaugural committee. no diplomatic experience. another is nepotism, which, of course, popes would use to give jobs to their illegitimate

children but they called them nephews. if you think of ivanka trump as first daughter and her husband, jared kushner, as that potential figure in the white house, this is very much within nepotism. the third is indulgences. the ancient catholic church would sell indulgences. in exchange for good works you would get less time in purgatory. if you think of the gap of what the church believed which was the poverty of the gospel of christ and how bishoped lived in palaces and you think of the gaps of the elites today, both trump supporting and opposing, and the creed of equality of opportunity, i think you see a domina domina dominant institution ripe for disruption. if donald trump is alexander vi, which is the borgia pope, he

breaks the system. as john meacham was eloquentry putting it, he breaks the tradition, the anger for martin luther to nail the 95 theses to the door. it should be said following that analogy, printing was the technology then. social media is now. i fear it is a post-literate rather than enlightenment era we are living in. it is a meme-ology. those parallels provide stark warning signs as to the world trump is leading us into. >> still ahead, a few new york stories in the headlines this morning. president trump is making a move and saying goodbye to the big apple. staten island democrat max rose joins the conversation. he voted for the impeachment inquiry yesterday. >> and comes from a district that supported donald trump by double digits. >> speaking of new york, bill

karins is lacing up his running shoes to take part in the marathon this weekend. how is the forecast for the race? >> it is looking great. i wore last time i would never do it again after my fail at mile 25 but it is a different story. let's get to the forecast for those descending on new york city, it looks gorgeous. considering how rainy and miserable it has been, we'll take this. mostly sunny skies and temperatures in the low 40s and 50s. i'm sure a lot of people have to do a lot of cleanup and still half a million people are without power from the storm last night. 207 wind damage reports. what a windstorm. people were up all night long hearing the wind howling. we have 55 million people under wind advisories or high-wind warning. some of the worst damage was buffalo to syracuse, especially along the lake shore where they saw flooding too. the wind gusts peaking during the day today. not too bad d.c. and baltimore.

there may be minor airport delays. worst delays have been in maine where we have over 100,000 people without power and still gusty in upstate new york. the other story overnight, another big fire formed. this one is just between santa clarita and santa barbara there. this is the maria fire. it had winds gusting 30 to 40 miles per hour. structures did burn overnight. there were more evacuations called. this one grew to about 7,500 acres in no time at all. the firefighters are hoping to get that under control later today. but we still have a critical risk of fire weather there, red flag warning still up for that area north of los angeles. tomorrow we finally reduce the winds but no sign of rain at all. actually the rest of the country looking for a beautiful fall weekend. cold mornings, sunshine in the afternoon. south florida, some thunderstorms on saturday, and we will deal with some snow and rain showers in the great lakes, but overall compared to the week we just got done with with the horrible weather in california and the big storm in the east, we will take some sunshine and we'll take the cool temperatures

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trying to put a ribbon on a sham process doesn't make it any less of a sham. >> democrats are trying to impeach the president because they are scared they cannot defeat him at the ballot box. >> this is unprecedented. it is not only unprecedented, this is soviet-style rules. >> welcome back to "morning joe." we've got donny deutsch joining our conversation. also with us, a member of the house homeland security and veterans affairs committees, democratic congressman max rose of new york. he is a veteran of the war in afghanistan, a recipient of the bronze star and purple heart. great to have you with us. >> good to see you, too. happy belated halloween. >> happy halloween to you, too.

why did you vote that way? >> i have not been a member of congress for close to a year, yesterday was the saddest day of my time in congress. this is a somber moment. no one comes to congress wanting to impeach the president of the united states. but at this point i do believe that these allegations are incredibly credible and they're very serious. this actually for me revolves around an anti-corruption issue. did the president of the united states use the apparatus of the state, along with his cronies or south koreas or whatev associates or whatever you would like to call them, to advance his self interest, not the interest of the state or the american people? we are asking questions on behalf of the american people and in defense of the constitution, and that's what we came to congress to do. >> so let me ask you about the criticism you heard from jim jordan, steve scalise and others that this was somehow a secret operation, a soviet-style, was the term they used in the secret

chamber, in the scif. how do you respond to that in. >> i am at the point where you remember what it is like not to be a member of congress. i remember seeing the news when i was deployed to afghanistan and you become so frustrated with politics, so frustrated because it seems that elected officials now have more allegiance to their own party and next reelection than they do to actually advancing the interests of the american people. here we are at a very serious moment, a somber moment, but a mom that could help build the future for the united states of america, and to see these elected officials, who i believe their heart deep down inside is in the right place, but to see them putting politics first -- >> is their heart in the right place? >> well, look, i -- >> i'm not seeing their heart in the right place. >> i am still -- i am still an optimistic, hopeful person. >> that's because it is less than a year you've been in congress. >> right. look, but to answer your question, what is happening right now is we're moving to the next stage of this process,

moving to the public stage. i am praying for steve scalise and kevin mcarthy, that they're going to start putting the country first. i wouldn't have gotten in the business, i wouldn't have run in the district i ran in if i was not hopeful people can do the right thing. >> i believe those characters we saw there, they will not -- their hearts are not in the right place and they will not get there. having said that though, i think to pick up on the last segment i think there's a handful. we are still looking at today what it looks like. let's fast forward and we have watched vindman in his uniform and talk about and use the words, "he put our national security at risk." let's think about john bolton. we haven't seen that theater yet. i think particular if the democrats and nancy pelosi strategically cannot make in complicated -- i don't even want to make it about the ukraine. it comes down to they have played with your national security, bring it back to the kitchen table. it is not abstract. it is not military aid. it is not ukraine.

it is not about the bidens. it is about that this president, his main purpose is to protect us and he basically made you at homeless safe, our national security, your national security is at risk, that's something that can start to resonate. >> it is bigger than that. i have to push back on that. the question here is centered around him advancing his own self-interest, because when -- >> no, it is not. >> the thing that matters to a voter is how does it affect me. that's the a. >> yes, and i will tell you why it affects the voter. it is not just the president who is potentially advancing the self-interest, it is the pharmaceutical companies in washington, d.c. jacking up the price of pharmaceutical drugs each and every year. it is the whole edifice pacs. >> but for this message you have to keep it simple. >> there's nothing more simple than an anti-corruption message. >> congressman max rose of new york.

thanks, congressman. >> thanks, guys. >> coming up on "morning joe," ari melber was watching every moment of yesterday's vote to push forward in the impeachment process and he is here with what we may have missed next on "morning joe." ♪ fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.

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well, one of the aspects of the resolution we passed today authorizes me to begin releasing transcripts, and i would expect that process will begin as early as next week. >> welcome back to "morning joe." how intel committee chairman adam schiff on the potential next steps as the house impeachment inquiry moves forward. joining us msnbc chief legal correspondent, host of "the beat" on msnbc ari melber. you break these things down so well, what did we see yesterday. what is the significance? >> the significance is congress is closer to impeaching president trump than he has ever been before and it has bought in on record, which is different from will feeling like that and the speaker and the posturing, they're all in now. they set out the rules and they set out a blueprint that barring something really wild and different puts forward a timeline of weeks, not months,

for that act. >> we have heard from republicans again and again, this is a secret thing, taking place in a secret chamber, soviet style, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. just layout, if you could, what has happened so far, how they've carried out the investigation and how it will look different now as a result of this vote. >> well, it is true that part of the process has been confidential, but that is how it normally is. >> right. >> the intelligence committee, as everyone knows and the republicans know from when they ran it, operates more closely held than other hearings, so private hearings and meetings and depositions are normal. of course, an investigative process, which the intelligence committee says they're sort of doing, right. think about it like this. there was a special counsel for russia collusion. there was a special counsel for watergate. there was a special counsel for clinton issues that began for, quote, unquote, white water. the house intelligence committee is playing the role itself, gathering the facts quickly. that's the private part. what the rules do -- which two days ago we didn't have it, we were all talking about what

could happen. now we wake up today. the rules have passed. what they do is provide a mechanism for release of most of the material, most of the facts gathered, the testimony, the evidence will be in some redacted form now released under the rules so everyone can read the depositions and make sense of them. then, second, you have a mechanism to take public hearings and all of it together. so your private hearings have already happened, the new public hearings, you send it over to the judiciary committee and they decide are we writing articles of impeachment or not. >> witnesses who have been in the private depositions now will be put into public view. for example, lieutenant colonel vindman can tell his story for the country to see without leaks coming out to newspapers. >> yes, that will be happening in two ways. if you take someone like vindman who is, of course, the worst nightmare of the white house, you have the chest full of medals, you have the back story, you are walking around with the strap, just from a political or courtroom perspective it is not a witness you want to go at with a two-by-four. that witness has a private deposition. the entire deposition under the rules can be released and he can come back and speak in a public

hearing. there may be other people who for whatever reasons are not eager to speak in a public hearing and we have the usual jostling on the hill over that. >> i want to ask you about tim morrison. he testified before the house committee's on impeachment inquiry. why is he a significant figure? he did confirm what we all know we heard and what we -- excuse me, what we all read in the summary of the phone call, but he said the distinction was he didn't hear anything he deemed to be illegal. why is that significant? >> well, i think the white house will take whatever defense it can get. so that's a legal opinion. keyword, opinion. it helps to have anyone that says, well, this personal wasn't running around saying, i need a lawyer, we need to call it in, i think it is terrible, and that higher set. they want to invoke that. the reason it is problematic for the white house is you have someone confirming the underlying account. if you take a big step back, i will use a simple comparison, willie, and i hope you don't

mind being involved in it? >> please. >> if someone walks in here and take your wallet and leave, an observer, a witness could say, well, somebody just robbed willie, right? that's a legal conclusion that you were robbed. the fact, the witness, the evidence is just that your wallet was taken. if we find out that the person that took your wallet was a member of your family or your authorized attorney or whomever, it wasn't a robbery, right? it was just the removal of the wallet. we fund oind out it wasn't a pe you didn't know or we have other evidence, it was a robbery. whether the removal of the object is a robbery or not is a legal conclusion. if all four of us watch the wallet get removed, at a certain point if your defense is no wallet, no collusion, no wallet was ever removed, that fact starts to fall under the weight of the evidence because that's all proven. the reason why the legal part becomes important is we're not talking about a statute here, right. there's no statute that you look up and it says, okay, you can't do this, you can't get help from ukraine, it is illegal. no, we are talking about a high crime and whether the house and the judiciary committee writes

it up as an article and says this is bribery or high crime and whether the senate wants to hold that trial. that's the legal part which is above and beyond the underlying facts. >> season, what morrison effectively said yesterday was, yes, i agree i heard what colonel vindman and others heard, but my opinion of it -- again, ari says his opinion is not legal, not sure his opinion on the legal question is significant here. >> right. i wonder was there any reason for him to resign, was there any legal reason? was it easier for him to testify, the fact he resigned the day before? my other question for you, ari, we hear about the other legal fights going on in the courts and we may hear from bolton, we may not, that the trump administration has been fighting congress. are there any lawsuits or anything in the courts right now that can prevent the speaker from moving forward on impeachment hearings or calling an impeachment vote at this point? >> what the courts have done thus far is merely support the fact this is a formal

impeachment inquiry, which strengthens their hand for getting certain things, including getting parts of the mueller report that were redact. to the extent the courts are involved here it is either saying, yes, this is real kbeechl, this is not a hoax, and also saying in some cases that individuals or individual evidence may come out. ultimately long term there are people -- let's not forget, you can have a legitimate inquiry and someone can still say they don't want to have to testify in public or they think part of their material is privileged. the reason these people are resigning, i wouldn't claim to know all of the facts in every case. we have all heard the public explanations. sometimes it is not a legal reason but more of a general awkwardness. >> i'm sorry. just to follow up. but there's nothing that the courts can do or donald trump can file with the courts to prevent the house from moving forward if they find -- >> correct. >> -- articles necessary to move -- to move articles of impeachment? >> yes. >> trump can do all he wants but it won't get him anywhere? >> right. let's not forget it was just a few weeks ago that the donald trump position was, we're going

to defy the subpoenas, we're going to order people to defy the subpoenas, we're going to play hardball, right? it turned out they don't have a bat. we watched person after person march in there and talk. so it really does lay bare the difference between tough talk, and anyone who has covered donald trump -- all of us who have been around this, if you have covered donald trump, he says a lot of things he knows to be untrue and that a lot of people that are involved know to be untrue. he hopes some people far enough away don't realize it, it buys him time, it looks tough, bravado. he said it through court cases that he's the most litigious person to occupy the white house. this is something he does. >> republicans have been claiming for the last few weeks that the process is not fair, there are closed deposition, they don't have access to all of the information. yet not one republican voted for the bill yesterday that essentially makes the process fair and transparent. were you surprised by that vote?

do you think they can keep going forward and making these claims that the process is not fair given the fact not one person voted for a bill that makes it so transparently, you know, obvious? >> well, look, if you don't like the facts sometimes you argue the process. so they can keep making that argument. i think that what we've seen and what they've laid out now is a set of procedural protections for the president that are actually more enhanced than what some other presidents have had in impeachment proceedings. this is a chart here that really lays it out. some of the things are obvious like, okay, do you get to attend the evidence presentation? when you look at asking questions for example, they explicitly prevented nixon from that. clinton was up in the air. trump has been assured that right if he cooperates. raising objections, everybody had that. attending the evidence presentation, trump gets that, clinton didn't. when you walk through the facts, yes, there's extra protections within this for the president. as for the process arguments, look, i think that this is a big deal when you talk about the potential impeachment and

removal of a president, you talk about overturning what was the will of the voters to the electoral college. they can make all of the process arguments they want because at the end of the day what you're partly saying is even if your president did something bad and all of the presidents who have run into impeachment had criticism for various things, johnson, clinton, nixon and trump all had things that people thought were terrible. that wasn't the question. the question was, are they impeachable. in the case for example of clinton and johnson, the was a view it was an overreach. >> as i look at the chart that you laid out, it is very helpful. do you see this process as being different for president trump or less fair for president trump as republicans are arguing right now? not just for an impeachment inquiry but for any -- like benghazi, right, they set the rules, they had private hearings, they did all of the things democrats are doing now. do republicans have a case this is somehow unfair to donald trump? >> no. the rules, in fact, show that trump is being afforded more

protections. so i think that is the facts of the rules. now, there is a really big clash that's got to be figured out that has not as of this morning been settled, and that is does the white house say, okay, we got these protections, we had been stonewalling, demanding people not go and they're going anyway, are we going to engage this? if they do, willie, who are they going to send? one of the most vocal televised lawyers, and these will be sell viced, is rudy giuliani. if you send him as your lawyer he ends up in the soup as the alleged bribery plot. they've had a lot of scepticism about how officials are not going as far at donald trump wants. do you send jay sekulow, who i have interviewed and remains a public lawyer and adviser to the president or do you sit this one out? do you, mr. tough guy who said you were going to disrupt and change and fight and battle, mr. tough guy who says he also knows how to run a communications war room all by himself, does he sit out the biggest battle for the

existential defense of his presidency and say, no, i'm not sending anyone down there? we don't know. it will be fascinating to see what they do. >> ari has a whole special sunday night, 9:00 eastern, "impeachment: white house in crisis" where he breaks it down. great to see you. >> i have to tell you one more thing. >> yes. >> we have been waiting for months to use the honey drippers, impeach the president, the 1973 classic about the nixon impeachment. >> and do we hear it on sunday night? >> all i can tell you is sunday, 9:00 p.m. eastern. it is brand-new and we try to pick our music carefully, and we have been waiting and the honey drippers did write that song, it is a musical number about impeachment. whether or not we use it sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern -- >> finally got rights and clearances. sunday night, excellent. we will be watching today on the beat. >> thanks. coming up next, the october jobs report just crossed. we will break down what it says about the strength of the united states economy. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ i'm bad.

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"morning joe" jobs report is sponsored by career builder. ♪ >> welcome back to "morning joe" on a friday morning. breaking economic news now with the release of the monthly jobs report. let's bring in right away cnbc's dom chu. how does it look? >> willie, we have a jobs number that is pretty good, better than expected. the number of jobs created by the u.s. economy in the month of october comes in at 128,000. that far outweighs the analysts' estimates for 75,000 jobs created. what is also interesting is the previous two months. in august and september were revised higher by a total of an additional 95,000 jobs. the unemployment rate did tick slightly higher from 3.5% to 3.6%. it was in line with analysts' estimates. average hourly earnings, which is a key metric people watch to see if people are making more

money, they made .2% more on a month over month bases from september to october. that's 3% more in terms of paycheck than at the same time last year. a couple of the breakdown elements here just for your perusal, because of the gm situation, the strike and everything, there were a net 42,000 jobs lost in the auto and auto parts industries. that drove a total manufacturing industry loss overall. restaurants and bars and hospitality were the big gainers in terms of jobs. they created 48,000 of them, but two of the numbers we will look more closely at, the labor force participation rate, the number of people who are actively out there seeking jobs actually increased from 63.2 to 63.3%, which means more people feel comfortable going out there to look for a job. that was one reason why the unemployment rate might have slightly ticked higher. also, the u6 or the broader measure of unemployment, those people who are unemployed for economic reasons or work

multiple jobs to make ends meet, that number does tick slightly higher as well from 6.9% to 7%. but broadly speaking, willie, guys, what this signal is that the job gains continue, albeit at a more modest pace. but it does kind of weaken the case that president trump might have for lowering interest rates. the u.s. economy does still seem to be moving along, just at a slower clip. i will send things back to you. >> dom, stay with us because we have more news coming across we want to get you in as well. elizabeth warren releasing hir plan to finance medicare for all. this has been one of the questions hovering over her campaign, how are you going to pay for it. she says the money -- and we will talk about the numbers in a moment, will come from wealthy and corporations. in answers the question from the debate which she dodged last time around, she says not one penny will come from the middle class. the federal government will have to absorb 20 trillion dollars in

spending. she pledges to keep combined public health spending under $52 trillion over the next ten years. >> yeah, willie, the number people are going to remember here is the $52 trillion. even if it is coming on the backs of the wealthiest 1% in the country, people will remember that number. but, look, elizabeth warren has made it very clear throughout the entire campaign she has a plan for everything. i think everyone was sort of surprised in the last debate that she didn't quite have a good answer on how this plan was going to be paid for, how her medicare for all plan would be financed. now we know. so i think she has got to come out and explain this a little bit more in detail, whether it is in a town hall, whether it is in an interview. she has to give a little bit more information to voters about how this is going to be financed beyond what she has already put out. >> nick, what do you see in the numbers, your first blush? >> look, it is an eye-popping number as we all knew it would be because medicare for all is not going to be cheap. i think we have to wait and see if, in fact, this is a mill

stone for democrats. i think there is a decent chance that this idea, while popular left of the party, is very dangerous in a general election as conceded by some of the candidates. on the other hand, i think warren is about as good an explainer of policy as any democratic candidate since bill clinton. you know, it is important to have this process to explain how your policy is going to work. if she can't explain it in a democratic primary, she sure as heck is not going to get it passed through congress if she is president. this is a necessary part of the process, so we'll see how she does. >> what do you see, susan? >> i see a lot of reasons for middle class people, taxpayers to be concerned, because they will not believe this on top of everything else that elizabeth warren has been putting forward. it is important to recognize that, yes, she has a plan for everything, but to look at each plan individually but to look at it in a cumulative way and

somehow she's going to pay for all of these things put together. that's just $52 trillion for health care, not to talk about all of the other issues she is doing. that will be a number that is insurmountable and i think people will jump on it, both in the primary and general election. >> they certainly will. we are continuing to comb through the white paper from elizabeth warren. we will bring you more detail on it in a bit. coming up next, tom brokaw is with us with more of his individual reporting on the parallels between richard nixon and donald trump with a look back at one of president nixon's most famous and divisive speeches. from managing inventory... to detecting and preventing threats... to scaling up your production. giving you a nice big edge over your competition.

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♪ we have seen some important 50th anniversaries this year. apollo 11, abby road, and something else in 1969 that was especially important as well. a president under siege rallying his base and going under attack. it was richard nixon and 50 years ago this sunday president nixon gave one of the most divisive speeches of his presidency. tom brokaw looks back at richard

nixon's silent majority. >> it ended in disgrace. it ended with a stredream of immunity. >> that did not happen. the country was deeply divided over the war in vietnam and just months after nixon talk off anti-war protestors mounted their biggest demonstration yet. >> never have so many of our people publicly and collectively manifested opposition to this country involvement in a war. >> nixon made it clear before the march that he would be unmoved by the protests. >> we expect it, however under no circumstances will i be affected by it. >> and he attacked and be littled the protestors.

>> a small group of misfits seeking to discredit a free system because they company compete and find success anywhere. >> but the protestors were not just a radical fringe. they were increasingly mainstream. even supported by some soldiers in vietnam. >> there is a lot of men dies other here for no reason at all. >> as the protests grew, nixon struggled to shape his war strategy. he secretly banned a escalation. a nuclear alert, a bluff, to intimidate the enemy and it failed. then he scheduled a national speech on vietnam on november 3rd, 1969. he wanted to buy time for peace talks, troop withdrawals, and the war. but the speech would be

remembered for one line above all. >> so, tonight to you, the great silent majority of my fellow americans, i ask for your support. the great silent majority, his base. he was not bringing americans together, but taking sides, us versus them. >> north vietnam cannot hue mailuate the united states. >> he based his speech on what he called the great silent majority of americans supporting the policy that he followed now so he offered though no changes in it. >> he believes there is no center ground left so he has chosen a position closer to the hard liners. >> he showed off thousands of telegrams of support. >> we know there is a silent

majority in this nation. >> and vice president agnew was sent out to discredit the protestors. >> it proves nothing in the way of a public mandate. >> even some marches were politicized. >> and leaders publicly said that the goal was to bring out the silent majority as a counter demonstration against protests. >> the country was more divided than ever. >> i'm concerned about the people on the far right and the people on the far left who are not willing to listen to anything. >> then nextson took aim at the press using agnew to attack the investigation networks. >> perhaps the place to start looking for a credibility gap is not in the officers of the

government in washington, but in the studios of the networks in new york. >> now it is the nixon administration complaining about the news cove track gets. all it knew is that this time, this time, it came in the form of a threat. >> his speech did have a chilling effect. for a time the networks cut back on their coverage, but when they invaded columbia, four students were shot to death by national guardsman. four days later in new york, protestors were attacked by proany objectionton construct workers. at the white house, nixon accepted a hard hat as a gift, an unmistakable signal to his base. nixon went after the protestors himself. >> they are the same thugs and

hood lems that have plagued the good people. it's time for the great silent majority of the america to stand up. stand up and be counted. vote on election day. >> but it didn't work. democrats gained ground in races across the country. >> it took election day to tell them what we knew all along that the politics of fear is no politics at all. >> nixon didn't talk more about the silent majority after that, but the idea itself never really went away. >> the silent majority is back, but it's not silent. it's the noisy majority because we will not take that crap. >> the silent majority is back, folks. >> the fall of richard nixon, a reporter remembers watergate.

you put the bow on it at the end when donald trump uses the term silent majority. >> there are people out there that i know, i travel the country in the west and the midwest that are not buying into what the democrats are saying about the need for an impeachment proceeding of some kind. nixon was helped, of course, in the election that came in 1972. we're going to show you his opponent, it was george mcgovern. the most chaotic campaign you could imagine running against richard nixon. he only won one state. he won massachusetts, and for reasons that have never been clear to us, the nixon people thought they had to take him on so they started break ins, cover ups, and other things going on. after all of these years richard nixon is still an egmaegmatic.

he went all of the rails in the second term when he didn't need to surrounded by a lot of people from california that had not been in washington or in the national political arena for a long time and they went willingly along with him. it was a chaotic time, greater than what we're going through now, but i will say that you just can't make a decision about the democrats and the case going on or what the president has for the best case here. it will be a disruptive time. >> for the benefit of living history here. we talk about the trump era has unique and unprecedented. but from your perspective, have

we been here before? >> we have been here before to some degree politically. the big, big change which does not get enough attention in my machine is social media. the flooding of the air waves, day in and day out, we don't know where they come from, on the left and right by the way, and people can't decide what am i going to believe. people are more worried about being -- they need one more big case to pull this off in my judgment of malfeasance in some fashion. i'm not sure the country is looking at the telephone call in ukraine and that is the big, big

test. impeachment is a death penalty and we have to take it seriously. >> always great to have your perspective. someone at the front lines. a fall of richard nixon. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle is picking up the coverage. here is what is happening now. the start of a new month bringing the start of a new cage with the impeachment inquiry. the count down for those hearings has begun. now it will be up to democrats and republicans to make their case to