>> this is "up." i'm david gura. there is one last democrat running for president. beto o'rourke's campaign comes to an abrupt end. on capitol hill, the impeachment proceedings in full phase. the testimony about what one witness told lawmakers that he was told not to share his concerns about that phone call between president trump and the president of ukraine with anyone. no war room, no message. president trump getting back to washington, d.c. after a rally in mississippi. after the house voted to open the impeachment process. it is time to weigh whether to condone what happened on that

call. >> with us, author of the book "trump nation." and director at the white house under barack obama, and also cia officer. with us from washington, fiphil rucker. at the top of the show, let's take stock as republicans continue to attack the legitimacy and some key witnesses. >> i think we can infefr from the white house on position to the doctor's testimony that they believe that his testimony would be incriminating of the president. >> their judicial philosophy is guilty. they are going to give the president a fair and impart al firing squad. >> this is a purple heart

recipient saying the president put politics above nation's security. >> i thank him for his service but he is wrong. >> legally, they don't have to take a vote to move forward with the impeachment. this takes away the silly cudgle republicans are trying to use on process. >> this is a process that has been fundamentally tainted. the president has had no rights. >> after a thorough inquiry, if the allegations are found to be true, they would represent a profound offense against the constitution and the people of this country. >> the resolution is adopted. the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table. >> the democrats voted to potentially nullify the votes of

63 million americans disgracing themselves and bringing shame on the house of representatives. >> that was president trump in tupelo, mississippi. only the fourth time in u.s. history the house has voted to formalize an impeachment hearing. latest polls says the american public is politic down party lines. 82% of democrats are for and 82% of democrats are against it. closed door testimony continues overnight. the washington post and nbc news, lieutenant general you heard there that said a white house lawyer told him to keep quiet. starting with phil. the efforts this nfc lawyer made

to keep alexander from testifying. bring us up to speed on that pressure from this week. >> my colleagues reported that the lieutenant was told by john icenberg not to speak about his concerns about that ukraine call outside of the white house, outside of the government. to keep quiet. the timing is significant. that concern was relayed after the white house caught wind of the whistleblower complaint. all of this adds to a broader cover up story inside the white house we are only beginning to unravel. each piece is significant in painting a portrait of an administration that what president trump did on that call was wrong and was moving to conceal it from others inside

the government. >> how extraordinary is it that you would have a lawyer doing this? is that this was being treated as a serious issue. >> what is extraordinary is the divide between appointees and those talking about what is better for national security. there is a massive gap. that reflects how the american public is dealing with this. we all know it is corrupt and wrong to ask a foreign government to intervene and wrong for the president to use his office for personal gain. that messaging is not translating into the american public. we are seeing the trump administration talk about. it is not a very big deal.

that divide is not just on the cultural side but the norms and standards of how democracy is supposed to work. >> talking about the testimony in his uniform. he was attacked by several republicans for being born in ukraine and moving here. help us understand this testimony more broadly. >> i think the most important part of this testimony is just his credibility as you appointment out. he served the poircountry, bled the country. he is someone who wants nothing to do with the spotlight. i know these people. used to work with them.

they avoid the press but are driven by duty and love of country. that is such an old fashioned thing to say. there are many of us americans who feel that way. that's what i think forced him to make the stand that he did first privately in the white house and then ultimately with congress. >> you have this testimony, then the house called on icenburg to capitol hill. john and his staff and other national security council lawyers scheduled to be there as well. >> we are still in early innings of all of this as eisenberg said

on this. the cia makes an alert on this. eisenberg is the point person on all of this. the question why didn't bill barr look at that as a negotiation? what were eisenberg's conversation with the cia. there are people speaking about this document. he's a principal person that says i want to put it on a classified server and i don't want to you talk about it. he has to answer all of that. if he won't do it voluntarily, he should do it by subpoena. >> the other things are the

rules and giuliani and his minions. >> we are still looking for the unredacted mueller papers to still come out where we could go back to a pattern. >> could be the white whael a lot of people are waiting to hear from. if john bolton can testify. you've written a great piece about the obstruction argument. we are at this tipping point where this is not playing out. >> that's true, the house democrats feel like they don't necessarily have to wait to get this testimony because they've

had so much testimony already because in their estimation, the facts are pretty clean here and they can move forward not only pursuing the use of office but obstruction on the part of the president and the white house. that being said, they are moving into this public phase. it is important they have some witnesses to testify publicly and help shape the public opinion. john bolton is one of those figures. he's well-known and identifiable. he was backing the president until his departure from the white house. so to secure testimony from bolton on camera would be important from a pr perspective from the democrats. they don't necessarily need him to make their case in bringing articles of impeachment to the

floor. >> how strong is the stone wall. i'll read from the statement, the second will not partake in the session where council is not welcome. they are welcome to send an invitation to participate in an open hearing where council can be president. >> there has been so much made of the process. rick perry here pointing out the process. >> the facts as phil said are pretty plain. this isn't the russia situation where there was so much to consume and sort out.

this is pretty straight forward. we have the rough transcript and the president's own words and other people who were on the call. i just don't think it was really that effective. they are still trying to hold on to this process. they want to have this process argument even though the house has voted the way they wanted to. that underscores the ability to defend the president. >> the president says he wants to talk about things beyond the process. >> we saw that backfire from mick mulvaney here. >> this is part of the challenge.

you have a president very much appealing to a public base and not a legal process. the two really don't connect at this point. >> phil, thank you for joining us from washington. ahead, more on the impeachment proceedings and the vote from john bolton and the two democrats that broke ranks. being called dinos. democrats in name only. (burke) at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. even a- (ernie) lost rubber duckie? (burke) you mean this one? (ernie) rubber duckie! (cookie) what about a broken cookie jar? (burke) again, cookie? (cookie) yeah. me bad. (grover) yoooooow!

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>> i urge everyone who was part of this campaign or supported me in my bid for the nomination to do everything they can to support whoever the nominee is. >> this is "up." i'm david gura. that was former candidate beto o'rourke. he announced he was quitting the race last night. the mow meant yim he had against ted cruz never translated nationally. he had not qualified for the next debate. so ends his winding path from early leading status to the decision over the summer to reframe his candidate si as an

activist after the shooting in el paso. you were there. caught a lot of people by surprise. let's start with the history here. this is a campaign that struggled to get its footing there is beto 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. >> that's right. when he was coming off the race, he was moving on the momentum he had against ted cruz. beto did not beat ted cruz. so that put a damper on all of that. it doesn't get any traction. he didn't really have a particular lane. he was sort of the young cool guy. talking about issues, he didn't

have anything to say that was all that particularly distingive. that august mass murder in his home town helped him to reframe his focus. by then, it was really too late. he sort of hadn't made his morning. he didn't find a way to get that attention back. his money wasn't going well. he didn't see a path forward. >> i wonder what insight you have into the decision he made. referring to the fact that he wasn't able to raise money. his message wasn't as loud. give us an insight to the

decision making. >> first of all, it is really hard. you've committed yourself to something so big that absorbs every ounce of you. you are attracting a lot of support. even though beto's campaign carried a lot of traction. you didn't have a number of people supporting him. to disappoint those people as candidate is hard to do. ultimately you look and see you are not raising money and getting traction in the national polls or in the early state primaries either. you ultimately just decide you can't continue. it is a hard decision. if he throws his weight in behind the rest of his process behind the replacement to donald

trump that will hopefully unify the country. i think that's a great outcome for him and supporters. >> i look back to the idea that he wasn't comfortable to using polsters talking about that moment after the shooting he seemed unbridled, angry and genuine. a what does that mean for politics? >> on the culture piece, what beto is expressing is what they've been feeling a long time. it is very refreshing to hear it in a personal way. that doesn't separate him from the rest of the field in the process. >> is he the neoliberal? in a change election where the

system is not working for me. democratic voters are looking for a how are you going to fix it. clearly a warren, biden and bernie have different versions and where the beto piece never really fit in. then it goes to having the ground base. it is not about the vanity fair cover that sparks attention but the system of iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and your path through super tuesday. >> he bucked that. saying i'm not going to go the traditional path. he went to rural south. he showed up at a gun show. >> last night, he said probably the best experience he had was

going to connecticut where sandy hook took place. he said he wanted to speak out on issues to him no matter where in the country they were. he just really wanted to spend time and speak on these things he cared about. it was incredible to me how shocked and sad people were. there was a sense of enormous loss we forget there is a real base of support. >> where does beto o'rourke go from here? there has been speculations on

him. testimony saying he's not going to be a candidate. he's had this support and progressive mantle. where does he go from here? how does he use what he's got going forward? >> i think he should run for senate. it is a mystery to me, why he didn't do that. the question that you could do more for this country in a senate race. maybe he's thinking of a governorship. i don't know. i think the less on to beto o'rourke is that charisma is not enough. kamala harris too. neither one has been able to translate that to a clear policy

base. warren has. buttigieg has. joe biden is running the same risk. you can't just play on people's emotions. people want more in this election. >> we'll leave it there. up ahead, the two democratic lawmakers who voted against the impeachment inquiry as president trump suggests that phone call could be foder for an fdr style fire side chat. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you

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itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. >> this is "up." thursday is the formal vote for the impeachment inquiry. 232 to 196. house republicans opposing the measure. democrats joined by former republican now independent. two democrats one from new jersey and minnesota broke ranks to vote against the vote.

>> not your congressman, he said predicting a successful impeachment in the house and trial in the senate, i don't know how much we really gain from that. what did you make of his decision? what does it say to you about nancy pelosi's power? if you look at the image here, it's unlikely if this were moved to the senate, he'd be convicted. >> i thinks that true. it doesn't raise any questions over nancy pelosi's control. i think it is fine to have democrats dissent from this. mitch mcconnell will face this when he gets tried. there is no question this house will impeach donald trump. it will go to the senate and there will be others who aren't

going to get with the program. we don't live in a country where it is a unified block of view points. if the calculations that you can keep democrats in a district by and large, you'll get more then why not go with that image by the end of the day. >> we've heard of the term rino and now dino. republicans in name only and now democrats in name only. they are saying they are in effect not democrats. >> this vote to make official, if you will, although it was official was not a vote on impeachment. the vote i do believe will look differently than this vote to formalize the inquiry. you'll likely see more republicans cross party lines and see democrats shift back.

to begin to vote on beginning the inquiry in an official way, there is a lot of risk but not a lot of upside. you are voting to impeach the president which may feel like something you need to do for your duty. it will look different. let's not criticize these guys too harshly. let's not refer to them as democrats in name annual. that reinforces the idea that this is all just a partisan fight that republicans are certainly going to vote against impeachment and democrats have to vote for. that's not what we need and not what we have. we have a cross partisan coalition in favor of impeachment and in favor of removal of the president. we need to maintain that kind of cross partisan patriotic nature.

>> do you think there will be more direct out reach to republicans? how much should that be a concern to the house speaker at this point? >> i think what she's concerned with is a little bit of eliminating the process. >> the substance is kind of doing that. this is like great, let's reiterate how we are going to proceed. also boxing in mcconnell. once these are public, they can't have a closed door trial to have this not come out to the american public. she's playing that piece of how do we move this forward in the american public's eyes and protect her membership and make sure she's got the strong coalition. it is interesting who didn't vote against impeachment. you had plenty who turned red

districts blue who voted for this. many officials who wrote that famous letter who seemed to tip the democrats moving forward. that just tells you where this is with the broader electorate and we'll see going forward. it is not the emotional piece which those of us on the left were looking for. once that happens, game on. >> when we come back, isis has a new leader. it looks to reconstitute. one week after he was killed. that's next.

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be talking about that story for weeks. with me, they don't even want -- they actually played it down. and i'm happy about this, conan, the doig, got more publicity thn me. conan is incredible. conan is coming to the white house in a couple of weeks. did you ever see a story disappear so fast? if obama had that story, that would go on another seven months. >> excited about that dog's visit. president trump at mississippi

last night. it has been a week since the u.s. killed isis leader abu bakr al-baghdadi leaving the fate largely in the hands of three other presidents from turkey, russia and syria. tens of thousands more displaced from a refugee camp leaving experts and officials worried about growing extremeism inside the camps. isis members have announced a new leader acknowledging the death of abu bakr al-baghdadi. little is known about the identity of the new leader. joining us, author of a new book. congratulations on the book. i'll quote from a piece in foreign policy. across the region syrian

democratic forces have an estimated 130,000 women and children living in overflowing refugee camps becoming hotbeds for extreme ideology. with he see confusion surrounding the military policy and foreign policy. help us to understand the problem as it comes to refugees. >> we have to separate displaced persons and women and children known to be affiliated with isis. one camp holds 70,000 women and children that are known to be isis wives or supporters and their innocent children. they are living in filth. there is no mode of access to

fresh food and water. about a third of them are from the west. there are american children in these camps. it is urgent to figure out what to do. the window to have access to these camps is closing. what will happen to syria is largely up to the russians and a lesser extent, turkey. there are a lot of women in these camps were girls when they were groomed and recruited. as a humanitarian fall out and this topsyturvy policy. they are victims in large part. >> i wonder if there are tangible proposals on the table. how much of an open question is this what happens to them? >> western government has been really undecided. they've frankly not wanted to

repatate their women and children. there is now a sense of urgency to bring the children back. the window is short. in practice, they don't have a lot of incentive and focus to be able to help with that. i think there is a really short window and focus on getting some of these very vulnerable women and children out, especially the ones from western countries. we are seeing it on the ground. it is also not moving at this time there is a piece about these women and children and the level of trauma and living with this level of trauma and having no help or assistant. this is a huge problem. >> it is. it is syria and broader. we are talking about three

million refugees coming out of syria. 65 million refugees in a world. the average amount of time someone spends in a refugee camp is 17 years. there is an entire population that are not emotionally, mentally and structurally equipped to deal with. >> you listened to the president last night talking about this dog. how he's been treated since. we look back at the polling figures when praum presided over the killing of osama bin laden. 76% said he deserves great deal of credit. how folks are polled dood. 54% for him. this seems to great at him.

>> he is not engaged in the interest in the arab world. the comparison with obama fails on so many fronts. osama bin laden was a much better known figure to the american public. obama did not get months and months of follow up press. obama handled the announcement in a different way. he walked up to a microphone and it was end of the discussion. trump turned it into a performance. he introduced conan as a character. eddin tell against officials pulling their hair out. most of the fall out he's dealing with isn't about the media, it is his own doing.

>> we saw the doctored photo of him putting a medal on that dog. >> thank you to our guests. railing against impeachment in his first rally since that historic vote. the president is going it alone. including lies. the mountains of false hoods and statements. we'll fact check the president, next. >> remember he said, he you will not be president. then they take us out in different way with the lying and spying and leaking. and we are kicking their ass. (man) we weave security into their business.

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whistleblower. >> the whistleblower. we got to find out about the whistleblower because what he said has no relationship on my very good phone conversation with the president of ukraine. >> gone from perfect to very good. not true. the whistleblower's allegations have been backed up by hours and hours of testimony. >> you can't who did nothing wrang. you can't impeach a president that has the greatest economy in the history of our nation. >> the u.s. economy improving faster in president obama's second term. the ap also noting the late 90s is a level it has not reached on annual basis under president

trump. the president this week also said this -- >> we have the best employment numbers and unemployment numbers in the history of our country. and in fact, african-american unemployment just hit a number that nobody ever thought was even possible. the numbers are so good. >> it is true that african-american unemployment is low but the data is less than 50 years old and as the ap again points out, the multiple signs that racial wealth gap is worsening and the administration appears to have done little if anything to specifically address this challenge. that brings us to immigration and this claim made in the president's latest campaign ad. >> president trump is changing washington, creating six million new jobs, 500,000 new manufacturing jobs, cutting illegal immigration in half. >> well, the citing fox news for the data. cherry picking data from a three month span measured over a longer period of time, apprehensions under trump are up

instead of down. that is according to factcheck.org. in all, he made over 13,000 false and misleading claims. "the washington post" doing the work detailing the exhaustive list of all of those falsehoods and lies. coming up, in our next hour, five weeks, 23 subpoenas and about 100 hours of testimony from 13 witnesses and it looks as though house democrats are just getting started. what is next in the fight to impeach the president? new details we're learning as they prepare to take their inquiry before the american people next. american people next. snacking can mean that pieces get stuck under mike's denture. but super poligrip gives him a tight seal. to help block out food particles. so he can enjoy the game. super poligrip.

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two celebrations in the nation's capital today. the washington nationals are making the win, marking it with a parade. president trump also marking wayne. his grip on the republican party in public remains rock solid. exactly zero republicans in the house voting thursday in favor of moving forward on impeachment. despite a barrage of damaging and closed door testimony from top officials including serve apts and two veterans. overnight, new details from the "washington post" on the deposition of decorated iraq war veteran alexander vindman this week. he told congress that hay white house lawyer instructed him not to discuss his grave concerns about the president's call with anyone outside the white house.

that lawyer is john eisenburg and his deposition before the house is scheduled to take place on monday. of course, he may not show up. it's an open question every time one of these things is scheduled. outgoing energy secretary rick perry is not showing up for his testimony this coming week. the secretary will not part. the president used the impeachment inquiry. they voted to potentially impeach. >> they're bringing shame upon the house of representatives. but i'll tell you, the republicans are really strong. the strongest i've ever seen them. >> speaker nancy pelosi says public hearings with key witnesses could begin this month. whether that changes public opinion remains to be seen. in washington yesterday, the

speaker was asked about her relationship today with the president. >> there was that infamous now meltdown. people call it meeting at the white house. you talked to the president since then. >> when the president called and told me i'm in my wheel house now. this is not perfect. this is perfectly wrong. >> president trump from office. 47% degree. but in the senate, the ground may be shifting according to "the washington post." a growing number of republican senators are now considering acknowledging there was a quid pro quo on that phone call. the post reporting on a meeting this week in which senator ted cruz said it's not illegal unless there is corrupt intent. dig into that in just a moment. ben rhodes.

and with us, a senior writer at "politico." we were talking about colonel vindman. let's talk about john eisenburg here. this legal adviser scheduled to be on capitol hill this week. just get us up to speed on what we learned over the last 2 had hours about the role he played. his name is invoked in testimony over the last few weeks. >> well, it seems that he played a critical role here, you know, several times when people had concerns about things that were going on in this arena with u.s. aid to ukraine and whether it was being held up for political reasons. they went to eisenberg in order to try to address those concerns. and his response seems to have been to have moved the evidence from the place it would normally be kept at the white house into a much more classified computer system that is not normally used

for the contents of presidential phone calls. he is known to be a very careful and some would say secretive person if you go on c-span as i did a short time ago, go on the c-span website and look him up. so he is really a critical figure here. but i am very doubtful that he's going to show up on monday for this deposition that the house intelligence committee has him scheduled for. >> i imagine he is pitting that on executive prif levilege or whatever the who us is calling it these days. they're scheduled to be on capitol hill and ambassador john bolton scheduled to be on capitol hill as well. they are now waiting on a decision in court. are they not? >> they are. and the timetable for that court decision could really conflict with the speed at which the house intends to move at this point. from all we're hearing from

democrats on capitol hill, they want to go to hearings either later this month or maybe at the beginning of december. and i was in court on that cupperman suit on thursday. while the judge there said he wanted to move it with, i think, the word he used was quickly, he talked about ruling by the end of december or the beginning of january. it seems to me the impeachment train will have left the station and made it to the senate by then. i'm a little doubtful that is going to result and cupperman showing up. if that becomes the default schedule, it may than john bolton doesn't testify either. and perhaps eisenburg and anyone else in the white house that won wants to decline to cooperate with the inquiry. >> let me ask you about what he is alleged to have done. i go back to that testimony, what we know of it that alexander vindman delivered this week. something he alleges he kept trying to change the transcript, correct it. get it back to the way it was. reflect what actually happened

on that phone call. one of the more delicious anecdotes is that burisma is the company you mentioned in this issue. you know, john eisenberg, again, unknown lawyer in the white house. now taking on a pretty important role here as this progresses. >> no. it's pretty extraordinary, right? the lawyers in the white house are usually people trying to help you make sure you're complying with ethics requirements. they're not people trying to cover up crimes, right? i mean, i think is a real problem. because, you know, this server where they moved this transcript is meant to protect highly sensitive information. in the eight years i was there, transcripts going on that server deal with covert operations, would deal with sensitive intelligence sources that are discussed. none of that was discussed on this call. there is nothing classified on that call. the only reason to move that call on to that server is cover something up. right? if you're going to such extraordinary lengths to put this on the special server, to

tell vindman not to talk about this with anybody, clearly you think something went wrong here. clearly, you think there is corruption or criminal activity here. all the body language suggests they did not want this information to get out. and he seems to be the key figure at the center of that effort. >> you look at the calendar for this coming week on thursday ambassador john bolton scheduled to testify. there were pieces last week, the week before that noting that he's now become this sort of figure of the resistance. john bolton would have thought would be the guy that everyone says -- that sounds terrible. let's not get carried away. how important is it? i mean, you have a lot of democrats saying we're not going to wait for this. it's not worth our time waiting for the courts to decide whether or not he can testify. how important is it to hear from john bolton now? >> i would say it's important to hear from john bolton especially as he signed that book deal and ready to tell all or tell as much as he's willing to. he has written books before about time in pleeforevious administrations. it wasn't just president trum thap he was at odds w it was

mike pompeo and behind the scenes, clashing with all the people. and let's not forget when he was fired or retired or resigned whatever actually happened, despite how trump characterized it, that was a messy breakup between him and president trump. it is important to hear from people that have firsthand knowledge. one thing i worry about is despite the fact he is able to offer that firsthand knowledge and account of what is going on, president trump we know would drag him through the mud in the way he's done with folks that testified already. and that worries me about how that will sort of change the public's perception of what gets said. >> do you agree with that? you've not been on the same page. >> no, we had a testy end of summer 2012. i think that's an important point. one of the big problems the white house having is that they're trying to sully people who are wearing uniforms, who are career public officials, who, i mean look at their faces when they walk into the hearings. i mean it's the last place they want to be. they might feel a lot more

comfortable with john bolton no matter how critical he is. and it's going to be sour grapes. he's upset. and the republicans are going to feel, you know, john bolton, he just upset he didn't get his way. he's upset he didn't get a war in eye ravenlt he's iran and he fired. john bolton won't be part of the resistance. he may have said, yes, this is a drug deal. you've been after him for two years. so he's a wild card. i think it could be good to know what he knows and perfect example of why you have private hearings so they can go on longer and be more thoughtful so there is no grandstanding. look, if he says no, if he refuses, the evidence is piling up faster than their excuses. >> we're going to talk about messaging and the points made in a little bit. let me ask you about this extraordinary piece in "the washington post." as we kind of chart the evolution and their response to this absent a formal white house response to what is happening

here. that quotation from senator ted cruz or senator john kennedy talking about there being a lack of culpable intent. what do you make of that, that new position they're carving out here that they seem to think that this was something that might be untoward but not illegal. >> well, it's the only place for them to land inevitably, right? if you look at the way this thing played out, we already know the answer to the investigation. because we read it in the very first piece of evidence which was that transcript. donald trump pressured ukrainian government to dig up dirt and investigate joe biden. he leveraged resistance to do it. what happened ever since that picture drew in all that american foreign policy. >> someone that's been in government, all the people we're hearing from are the people who work on ukraine policy at the white house, state department, defense department. the republicans can't argue that fact pattern. what they've tried to do is there is always a process arguing and something unfair. it is shifty and all that stuff.

they're not arguing facts. where are they going to land? they're not going to be able to ignore the very simple crime. and so they have to say something untoward happened here. but this is how politics s everybody does this. the and we don't think it rises to impeachment. so to me, that is just a center of republicans that i think should look at the evidence and conclude this is not in the interest of the united states, to have corruption or foreign policy. >> returning to john eisenberg, he's not a household name for a reason. the reasons i'm saying it that way is they are not in power to make the decisions on their own. when you're talking about vindman went in and said there is something not right here. the white house chief of staff

and the white house counsel. he went to one of those people if not more than one of those people. and they told him, you know, keep this under wraps. he is not freelancing. >> let me ask you about the politics here. lawmakers are going back to how momentum is going. tougher districts have to explain the vote they made this week. how do democrats do that? how do they keep that focus on the momentum going forward. >> i think obviously as we heard them say a million times they can go the same time. it's interesting hearing the different messaging already. they want to make sure the country is not giddy at the idea of going through this impeachment inquiry with president trump. i think they're going to talk about how this is a rule of law issue and how the president tries to get away with any number of things. this is another example of that

is putting himself over the country. that's what they don't have to stand for anymore. >> what are we going to learn from the transcripts as they're released? the chairman of the house intelligence committee is conducting the hearings. >> one thing i want to see is what tactics the republicans employ during the depositions. they're deciding to fight. the number of the republicans have reportedly been asking questions. so one question will be that do they take the stuff out from the transcript. we may get a lot more sort of nuance. and stories in terms of who does whatten with. >> ben rhodes, i saw you nodding

there. has that argument now become less important, less salient because of this vote? >> i think they will. and i think the important point is the way they use this. which is they don't feel the need to win the overall argument about what happened. so it could be a different process argument every day as long as there is something that they're concerned about, that can feed their machine, that can feed their right-wing media machine. keep the base energized in some fashion. they don't to rebutt to the actual facts. you know, let me go on a limb and say this is not on a level. this is the deep state out to get trump or the never trumers.

so josh is exactly right. if you look at their transcripts and the questions they're asking, it's going to kind of reveal a lot about what are the conspiracy theories that they're trying to see here? the whistle-blower, his identity is inconsequential to this anyway. >> it's almost like ben knows a little about being at the other end of it. we know bill taylor's name and vindman, i bet most people don't know the name of the witness that went in the day that matt gates and his band tried to storm the castle. that's what got attention. i think it was kathy -- >> defense department official. >> yeah, it has the infect of blurring it. but if this is the plan to yell process for the next month or two months, this he have a problem. >> now they're shifting to

substance. president trump treated himself this week. he wants to focus on substance. >> it's not working. that's an admission it's not working. >> are republicans still holding up that tin can to their ear? are they interested in it. are he they at a point where they're tired of there being no message from the white house. they're now in the meetings on capitol hill trying to structure a political response themselves. >> there is frustration. there is no messaging guidance n it our reporting and the impeachment war room they have is not like a war room. it doesn't really focus on the legal side of impeachment. it barely focuses on a political message or things that can exonerate president trump. it is his focus on what is breaking through on tv and social media and how he can keep senate republicans coalesced around him because he knows that they will ultimately be the one that decide his fate. that doesn't help them with messaging guidance. when the president says it was a perfect call and his only defense, what you are supposed to do with that? >> there is also a -- sorry.

>> i was going to say -- >> let me defer to him. >> the worst thing for four years in the state department was saying, you know, ben rhodes is on the phone. >> i knew i did something wrong. >> it was only given out of order. i was going to say, they will land with this happened. it was a quid pro quo but we don't think it's impeachment. i that i is depressing and dangerous. ful if you're saying he corrupted our entire foreign policy and a country invaded to investigate the political opponents and we have no problem with that, we're in a new place as a country. and that's what the republicans will be doing. >> speaker pelosi deserves a lot of credit. it's good we're going through this process to restore the process itself. >> we'll leave it there. thank you all for joining us. up next here, 2020 candidates putting health care policy front and center. along with a hefty prooicetag.

how the house's impeachment defense depends on bashing witnesses as they go before congress. why that could backfire. why that could backfire. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com

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xfinity mobile. click, call or visit a store today. last night, 13 democratic candidates were in the largest event ahead of next year's caucuses. one person that was not on the stage, beto o'rourke. he announced the end of the presidential bid hours before

that event with just three months to go before voters caucus, they tried to have breakout moments one by one, ten minutes each. some of them used that opportunity to go after elizabeth warren and her new plan for medicare for all. our reporters are still in iowa covering the candidates. big event. 13,000 people in that wells fargo arena. how many talked about medicare for all and elizabeth warren? how much was that the subject of the speeches last night? >> no one ever mentioned her by name, david. there was an undercurrent of focus on her because she has been rising in the polls, because she just put out her plan in the morning on how to pay for that coverage. so what you heard from them is you want to improve health care. we don't want to raise taxes. we want to do something realistic. let's build on at fordable care act or do medicare for all who want it.

everything but what elizabeth warren is talking about which is completely overhauling the health care system and having a pretty substantial amount of money that has to go for that. >> elizabeth warren today put out an estimate for the cost of her medicare for all plan. she put it at around $20 trillion over a number of years. in the past, the estimate was $34 trillion. she is talking about making it up with the difference with targeted defense spending cuts, wealth tax, cracking down on tax evaders. >> she's making it up. she's making it up. look, nobody thinks $20 trillion is between 30 and $40 trillion. >> 30 and $40. >> let me turn to you on this point. the times today saying the real

point of vision is she did this. she came out with the 34 pages. she did the math, brought in all the outside experts to do this. do you agree with that? how much should we be caught up in the figures at this point versus the fact she was able to after some pressure and some weeks time dom up with an explanation how this would be done? >> well, look, i think she had to. our thing is she has plans. she's got the answers. and this was the one issue where she hadn't laid that out. it was creating real vulnerability. it made her look like a typical politician. when in fact the reason her campaign has been so effective is it position her as this truth teller person with plans. i think the bigger challenge though is this is actually not the core of her message. the core of her message that's been so effective is the corruption and then the inequality in our economy in washington, i'm going clean that up. i'm going to narrow income inequality. health care wasn't what she was leading with. she signed on to bernie sanders medicare for all in the senate. and now is kind of brought to

this position. the debate is important to know what people stand for and what the priorities are. but the likelihood of the next president being able to pass medicare for all in the first year in office, we went through two years of the most breathing legislative flig legislative fight to pass the affordable care act. it feels like we're spending all this time in the democratic debate talking about something that is not going to happen. and it's still important to know what people will shoot for and what their goal s but crunching the numbers like this for something that is not going to happen, frankly, even if i want it to happen, i think is a bit getting off the topic. >> is she surprised by this, do you think? senator warren by the fact this has come to define her? is this the opinion she was out for? you look at the latest poll from the "new york times" and you see it and dig night. voters are still by and large by majority not that enthusiastic

about the prospect of losing all private coverage. >> that's where things get sticky for senator war when talking about medicare for all. and especially because bernie sanders is the leader on this issue until she's found it in her lap. and this is now her defining issue. there is a way i think she can tie it into the corruption that she talks about or at least the institution that's are not serving all america in the way that she thinks they should be serving them. it is a tricky thing. this will lead to more opposition research from every other campaign. it will lead to more attack ads from president trump and force her to stay on the topic which will otherwise take her off course from talking about the other things she wants to talk about. the i will say though in the plan she refers to it as a long term goal. that gives her wiggle room to avoid saying i'm going get this done on day one and we're going to change. this it gives her the same wi wiggle room she told labor union leaders when she is talking to the folks in the midwest that are the labor voters who are maybe a little more skeptical of all this, she's used this long

term goal language as a way, i think, to sort of show people, look, this is what i want to do. i'm ambitious as she knocked, i think it was john delany in one of the debates yshgs you wou, w put forward these ideas if you are not going to get things done? that is fascinating. it reflects your question that maybe she didn't necessarily think this would become her defining issue. >> at the start of a busy weekend, thank you for your insights. how they are going to fight the impeachment attacking one witness at a time. hment attacki witness at a time.

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he has a purple heart. he got hit by an ied in iraq. he emigrated with his family, young. >> it seems very clear that he is incredibly concerned about ukrainian defense. i don't know about his concern for american policy. the main mission is make sure the ukraine got the weapons. i understand. that we all have an affinity to our homeland where we came from. >> here we have a u.s. national security official who is advising ukraine while working inside the white house apparently against the president's interests and usually they spoke in english. isn't that kind of an interesting angle on this story? >> i find that astounding. and, you know, some people might call that espionage. >> john yu if you forgot. joining us is jeff jarvis from the university of new york. let me start with you. how do you react to what we saw there?

the evolution of all this and then liz cheney breaking out as the voice of reason to say this shouldn't be done. we were talking about the degree to which the president is communicating a message. you're focused on the media largely. how much of this permeates? >> i think this is all an extension in the long term of the e-mail defense. >> he did everything that he said he d but now what are we going to do with him? he's from ukraine. there is a server in ukraine. but the process, but this, but that. and we in media are nice but done dogs. and the argument is now changed again. we're going to argue about whether or not there is quid pro

quo. it doesn't matter. why are we arguing about that at all? >> as all of this played out, we played you this comprehensive look at what happened over the course of the week. but things get out there and maybe they're taken back. liz cheney criticizes them. we walk them back a little bit. i think john yu did that. but they're out there. and that's a real peril of this time that we're in and something this president pioneered. throw something out there, maybe walk away from it. but it's out there. and it's going to be repeated over and over again. >> and two words, every single time fox news. yes, there's social media. but that is not the problem in the country. even talk radio is small and cultish. fox news is the problem. it's the outlet. the fact they can say things like this on that television set and, you know, our parents and aunts and ufrpg lz ancles are g watch. we'll never get away from that. the notion we have to convince that part of america, they're as much as lost. >> to your point, david, you probably know about this more than i do is that, you know, even segments like this or

people correcting the fact that it's not okay to drag someone's character in the way that he did with this person, i mean, that -- those conspiracy theories and characterizations are then perpetuated even further in the attempts to clean it you were or walk it back. >> there's a real problem here. there is a wonderful organization called first draft that worries about this. he said we should not amplify the bad messages. there is a tipping point. when it get on fox news, you have no choice but to debunk it. >> den rhodes, was this a turning point in some way? if you look over last few years, there are people seemingly right minded or mostly right minded and come to the dpeens efense o country. was this a pivot point in any sense? >> i don't think so. there is no bottom. i mean sh everybody thought it was a turning point when trump attacked mccain or give you a whole list. i think there are two things different here. these are the heart of what

republican identity politics have been for years. so this guy is in uniform. wrap themselves around the military. and now they are attacking as they matter of strategy. someone that is a purple heart recipient. the second is russia and ukraine, right? the whole idea, back to ronald reagan of welcoming refugees from the soviet union, of standing up to russia, of supporting countries like ukraine that threaten russia. you have people on fox acting like there is no american national interest in standing up to russia. that is extraordinary in that three years ago the attack on us was why aren't they doing more to help ukraine? right? and so if you're a viewer, it's literally like in 1984 when war with one country and then changes. well, fox, if you watch that for years, it was support the troops and stand up to russia and support countries like ukraine

and why isn't obama doing more for that? and now if you're watching it, it's like attack the veteran, support putin. and why on earth would we support this country in ukraine? is it it really is a policy matter. >> purely personality. >> so what is republican party stand for? if they're not for the military and standing up to russia, they are literally selling all of their soul to just go along with donald trump. i think that may be the thing that is beginning to nod some republicans on the hill. >> let me ask you about the defense of the deep state if we can call it that. the financial times two weeks ago talked about that. i just want to ask you about the counter messaging that we've seen. alexander vindman showing up on capitol hill in his uniform. you were talking about the difficulty that career employees in the federal government have faced going up to capitol hill to do. this at a level of agency, talking about things that -- being in positions they wouldn't expect to be in before. where is that argument versus this other one? are they effectively making the argument there is an importance to the bureaucratic state that you know so well from your time

in government? >> look, i think to take a step back, what they're doing is destroying lives. they are, you know, vindman as we go through the rest of his life as half the country thinking that he's a spy for -- >> and there is the whistle-blower. >> yes. >> and you no he what? you no he what? thank god the whistle-blower came forward. how many whistle-blowers are not coming forward because dhoent want to go through this same character assassination? and there's a reason why the republicans are doing. this because they know it's a deterrent. they're destroying lives. vindman, bill taylor, peter struck, andy mccabe, these are people who really dedicated their lives to public service. were they perfect? no. were they part of some massive conspiracy? you know what? there was no conspiracy. if there was, i'm mad at ben. he really -- they didn't work out so well. in 2016, there was no sign of this. i mean logically makes no sense.

but they land on it ain this wa it's a simple talking point. feeds into pair noah for whatever reason. people on the right fall for these things faster. it is easy to think the government, is you know, incredibly efficiently evil than it is incompetent. and they are scaring people off. and they are going to continue to do that and it's going to have this same chilling effect. again, look at these people's faces when they go in. they're like my life is now defined by this. >> you're on set here in new york. >> the state department is having huge ramifications worldwide. christopher hill is up next. s worldwide. christopher hill is up next. lige gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. from managing inventory... to detecting and preventing threats...

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since the impeachment inquiry began, seven members of the state department testified about donald trump and his administration's relationship with foreign leaders. among those testifying, four ambassadors and a number of career civil servants, this another reminder that trump era diplomats are in the politicized. and dissuading people. and the state department has seen a sharp drop in the number of people taking the foreign service exam. and it's in a decade.

the university of denver and let me ask you first of all, what are you hearing from students. >> you are noticing a fear or a diminishment in interest in joining the foreign service? >> there's no question that that process is at work right now and students really kind of look at this. they look at the hardships of the foreign service. and then they look at a president who absolutely does not value anything the foreign service does. and so, it's not at all surprising to me that there is this major drop. the question is, you know, in the future can we recover from this? can we get a secretary of state who really cares about the foreign service. and understands the foreign service and 185 countries or whatever, they extent the view to do things. and yet we have an administration that seemingly couldn't care less.

>> what are we talking about when we talk about recovery. this is not the kind of thing. thousands of years environment experience have walked out the door. tillerson left. and people have not signed up because they've seen the bullying of the foreign service. and diplomacy is on diplomats. our interests suffer, right? and with this administration, not only have you seen this kind of cutting but you've seen this at the base of the idea that there will be people who serve one add manition to the next. and so i think we're going to have to -- the new president, one of the key foreign policy priorities is going to have to be revitalizing and reinvesting and the foreign service.

>> ambassador hill, how difficult is that going to be? i mean say you get a different secretary of state and different administration. how long is that rebuilding take? how long does that recovery take? i'm not a pessimist about it. i think americans, especially young people will rejoin. will go at this. because i think most people who take ten seconds to think about it understand the need to have good diplomats out there. you know, its a lot easier, a lot cheaper to have an emphasis out there than an armored brigade. so i think there is an understanding about it. certainly there's been a loss of expertise. i think one of the key issues is when you have good diplomats, you have to listen to them and put them in important positions. and when i see in the current administration some 26 assistant secretaries or how the whole building is operated, when you have 26 assistant secretaries and only one is from the foreign

service and in that case acting person, that kind of diminishes the foreign service to sort of bury the hired help. so there needs to be a commitment that this is a foreign service. i'm going to go with it. and the support. and i guess it's so troubling about this whole issue is to see the congress, especially the senate not seem to care about the issues. i mean, the rad fiction -- i mean the nominating process for ambassador is going very slowly. and so it's a combination of administration doesn't care and the senate that hasn't made it a high priority. >> how far down is the department when you look at it now? when he mentioned how high are the seats within the organization? >> it's hard to plan about the state department to freeze it to dismantle it and it's working.

when they first came around haen the heroes like collin powell. they were part of -- they were junior officers during vietnam. it was that searing an experience that led hem to be the next generation of leadership. i hope there are enough people that are staying even though we know people who every week or every month we hear that are leaving, they can't take it. it's not because they're serving a republican president. it's because no one values what they do. they value what the state department did. they believed in aid to countries that needed a lot of them had done their own missionary work. and you want to hope it's kicked in if. if trump is re-elected, the state department may close the doors until 2025. >> last question for you. how much does this extend to washington more broadly?

they're used to be young people getting into jobs like these. no the seeking the spotlight. no the seeking political positions, operating the kind of anonymity. what we've seen the last few weeks is anonymity is not a guarantee. >> that's right. the roles of these positions not just in the state department but elsewhere throughout the white house and the administration have been flipped on our heads under president trump because he either doesn't care about the people. and service that you can pursue under such a political administration. i have reporting just two weeks ago about a very similar situation in the white house cybersecurity offices. there the have been mass resignations from that department. there is support for that. cybersecurity work from the president and that's another brain drain. >> the foreign services is not something you join to see how it goes for a year. >> you join for a decade, two decades. it's a lifetime commitment. and when people, why would they take that chance? >> christopher hill, thank you for joining us as always.

>> up next, puzzling and problem matic math behind his latest jobs numbers athe economy teeters less than a year before br the presidential election. that's next. efore br the presidential election that's next. e? to james, from james. that's just what i wanted. is this a new buick? i secret santa-ed myself. i shouldn't have. but i have been very good this year. i love it...i love it... this year, turn black friday into buick friday, all month long. current eligible non-gm owners and lessees get 20% below msrp on most of these 2019 buick models. that's ensure max protein, 20% below msrp with high protein and 1 gram sugar. it's a sit-up, banana! bend at the waist! i'm tryin'! keep it up. you'll get there. whoa-hoa-hoa! 30 grams of protein, and one gram of sugar. ensure max protein. before she puts them in the dishwasher. so what does the dishwasher do? (vo) cascade platinum does the work for you.

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nch h. the president took to twitter yesterday to tout the rising stock market, tweeting this. wow, the blowout jobs number just out, adjusted for revisions and the general motors strike, 303,000. st this is far greater than expectations. usa rocks. yesterday's jobs number was better than expected, it was not 303,000 but 128,000. according to "politico," his number was likely arrived at. september while continuing to include temporary census employees as well as the g permit employees who went on strike clever matt ti clever mathematics. but it was a wi for the president. larry kudlow continuing the optimistic tone ahead of more talkse with china, even using that , 303,000 number. take a listen. >> my hope here, and again these jobs numbers, in this 303,000

blowout job00 number, i think t economy is voostronger thanful beings think. i think businessgs investment wl be on the way back. i think on trade where there is uncertainty, i grant your point, china looks better. usmca still looks good. reports from capitol hill are very good on usmca, canada and mexico obviously are gigantic markets for our manufacturing exports and so forth. so that will be very helpful as well. so let's see, let's play it, you know, day at a time, month at a time. >> optimism however misplaced or fabricated. joini joining us now, heather long. let me ask you to square those two things, where the weakness lies in that jobs report and what folks are worried about when it comes to the u.s. economy. >>to well, the problem for the white house is the president

promised the greatest economy in history and growth of 3% or even 4 4% or 5%. we learned this week that we are not there. growth the is under 2% right now. and that r said, the white hous is breathing a huge sigh of relief after seeing a lot of these economic numbers that came out this week. it could have been a lot worse. over the summer we had fear that we might be faulting in to a ll potential recession. and p after the latest scorecar it looks like this is a cooling economy but not a freezing economy so thaty is good news r the white house. the two sore spots, larry kudlow addressed it, number one is businessit investment has been contracting for twobe quarters now. why is that scary? because first businesses pull back on investment and then they turn around and they start layoffs. we have not seen the playolayof yet, but that could happen. and the other number is wages.

again, are we creating good jobs, creating jobs that pay a middle class wage? that is a bit more up in the air. wage growth has been stalling. if the economy were really that hot, and the labor market really that tight, we should be seeing companies pay more. >> and an element of uncertainty mentioned in thein jobs report d the fed chair's comments, uncertaintyen surrounding trade. the white house say tlg is ie s an incremental trade agreement. >> and i think thatde the structural t issues between the united states and china won't be addressed within the next year. and so what the trump people saw, this trade war was devastating certain sectors of the american economyct particularly agricultural.

and also putting at risk the global economy andsk the potentl for a recession here in the united states. so this kind ofce partial deal think is meant to patch up some of the vulnerabilities in key sectors for trump like agricultural and hopefully calm things down that it doesn't become trigger for recession. i think that things are worse than people see on the surface. in part because they gave a trillion dollars in a tax bill, giveaways to try to juice the economy headingic into re-election. and right now we have a cooling economyol without the levers th you would pull to try to rejuvena rejuvenate. so the deficit is growing, rates are g,down. soes when this economy does tur there is little that you can do to stop it from going into a spir

spiral. >> how much is there a disconnect between the numbers and how people feel on the ground vaughn hill arrestyard t people and they are seemingly willing to ride it out. who what are voters making of what the president keeps crowing about in. >> i do hear from a lot of voters in thelo upper midwest these repeated talking points that he is helping unemployment rates go down, but at the same time, although people recognize that they seegh more jobs poppi upre in their area, they either talk about how they have three jobs that they are stitching together orha they are still living paycheck toth paycheck o they are making like $12 and hour and12 that is not enough t sustain themselves and their kids. and that isem a a problem that president trump is not talking about. when people go to vote in november, you better believe that they will be voting in part on their personal financial situation and the situation of theirn families. >> heather, thank you very much. appreciate you joining you. ben, alexis and felipe, as well. tune in tomorrow, clint watts will be here and garrett haake.

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thank you very much for watching. i'll be back here tomorrow. joc "a.m. joy" with jonathan capehart today starts right now. >> the question is on the adoption of the resolution.

those in favor, completion s please say aye. >> good morning. i'm jonathan capehart.etion plee say aye. >> good morning. i'm jonathan capehart. joy reid should be back soon. the battle over impeachment reaches new heights when the house voted to endorse the impeachment inquiry against donald trump. this marks only the fourth time in u.s. history that congress has voted on the impeachment of a president and the wrresolutio set into motion a new set of rules including public impeachment hearings. those public hearings will reveal more of the damning closed door testimony that investigators have been hearing for weeks now. testimony that has built a clear case for impeaching donald trump. that donald trump put a hold on hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid to ukraine before a july phone call with ukranian president volodymyr zelensky. and during that phone