transcripts out today from the key witness in the impeachment investigation who testifies clearly and plainly to donald trump's quid pro quo in ukraine. ambassador bill taylor's searing testimony released by the house committees today shedding new light on his alarm over the freezing of military aid for u.s. ally over the irregular policymaking channel with a direct line to donald trump that sought to cut out his own state department nsc. and on the alarm expressed by former national security director john bolton when the investigations were raised as part of a policy discussion about ukraine. telle tellers transcripts underscore that people close to the president understood that trump was conditioning military aid on a public commitment from ukraine to investigate the president's political opponents. from those brand-new transcripts ambassador taylor on the quid pro quo, questioner, and when you said that this was the first time i heard that the security assistance, not just the white house meeting was conditioned on

the investigation, when you talked about conditioned, did you mean that if they didn't do this, the investigations, there weren't going to get that, the meeting and military assistance. taylor responds. that was my clear understanding, security assistance money would not come until the president of ukraine committed to pursue the investigation. questioner, so they don't do this, they are not going to get that was your understanding? taylor, yes, sir. questioner, are you aware that quid pro quo literally means this for that? taylor, i am. taylor painting a haunting portrait of a foreign policy process that quite literally meant life and death to the ukrainians, had been hijacked by what he describes as an irregular policy channel run by rudy giuliani that went directly to donald trump. quote, from those transcripts. taylor, in order to get president zelensky and president trump in a meeting in the oval

office, they took from that may 23rd meeting that they needed to work with rudy giuliani. so and so they did. and perhaps most intriguing since at this point former national security adviser john bolton remains an ilouisive and unwilling witness in the aid for dirt investigation into donald trump, there's this about a policy meeting on ukraine that took place inside the west wing, a meeting that bolton abruptly ended when the topic of investigations came up. taylor, when ambassador sondland raised investigations in the meeting, that triggered ambassadorbolton's antenna, political antenna, and he said we don't do politics there and so he ended the meeting. taylor will be among the first witnesses to testify next wednesday in the first public hearing of the impeachment investigation it. >> ambassador taylor's testimony and his transcripts are where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with us from the "new york times" white house correspondent annie karni. from "the washington post" national political reporter

robert costa. at the table matt miller, a former chief spokesman for the department of justice. executive editor for bloomberg continue, tim o'brien. plus, politics editor for "the root." ambassador bill taylor seems like the kind of witness to roll out on the first day because smearing him is as unsightly as unsmearing colonel vindman. what is the impact in terms of cementing in the minds of anybody who still sees up as up and down as down, the fact pattern around the quid pro quo of aid conditioned on dirt on the bidens? >> when i was at the capitol all day yesterday and on capitol hill this morning talking to top democrats, they say they are taking their cues from speaker pelosi, make this as nonpartisan as possible, push back against the republican talking points that this is a charged political process. and they have learned lessons from the mueller investigation on witnesses they have called like corey lewandowski.

they have to have people in uniform, to tell the story of president trump's conduct in a vivid way and a compelling way that's convincing to voters who may be skeptical about this entire inquiry. >> i know john bolton remains an elusive and unwilling witness. but he has been brought to life through the testimony of his direct reports and his colleague. and this vivid testimony and ambassador bill taylor's transcript today that his political antenna went up when investigations were mentioned by gordon sondland who has amended his original testimony. certainly paints john bolton as someone who i think he said he is not the whistle-blower, but he certainly seemed to share the concerns expressed in the whistle-blower complaint. >> reporter: i think that's right. bill taylor's testimony really paints a picture of two parallel worlds going on at the same time. the official process that was

populated by career civil servants and ambassadors and then this side project that was giuliani and politicaappointees like sondland running their own off the books foreign policy. and when john bolton came in to be the national security adviser, we didn't know what he was going to do, that he was going to be more than trump, like unhinged. and what we're seeing here is that in these two parallel tracks, he is falling into the one of the career diplomats and professionals who know that politics is not supposed to be part of this. it's not supposed to be something you ask foreign powers to meddle in. and john bolton quickly cuts off this july meeting what he thinks it's going in that direction . d so witness after witness we are seeing john bolton kind of on the right side of these two tracks of foreign policy. >> jason johnson's nodding so i

am going to get to him in a second. but robert costa, i know you have covered john bolton throughout this scandal. any sense of his impressions or his views about how extensively the testimony of fiona hill, the testimony of colonel vindman, the testimony of bill taylor details his conduct inside the west wing. >> everyone who knows ambassador bolton knows he carries his old battered leather briefcase around. he keeps meticulous notes of meetings. he has an almost photographic memory. they want him as a witness behind the scenes on a deposition, as a public witness because he's such a face from different cable channels in his conservative media work. but he's waiting to see, bolton's allies say, what the federal courts decide on don mcgahn's case on whether they can testify. he's going to let the legal process play out. but he is ready to talk about his outsider experience inside

of this administration, someone who was alarmed according to many of his associates, not just on ukraine, but on the president's conduct throughout the administration and how he conducted foreign policy. >> is there any indication that any of the testimony entered into the record by fiona hill or colonel vindman or ambassador taylor is different from his recollections of the alarm that he expressed of the anger or the explosion he articulated to ambassador gordon sondland who had to revise his testimony yesterday of describing rudy giuliani as a hand grenade that was going to blow up on everyone and is describing i guess his old boss mick mulvaney as running a drug deal. >> he may disagree with the characterizations of his emotions or his reactions to things. but that kind of lightning, that hard-edged language, that's very much how ambassador bolton speaks behind the scenes and sometimes publicly. he is someone who will use phrases to say things that are expressive about how he feels about situations and things he

may feel are over the line. because he's not just an ambassador, he is a lawyer. people say he sees things in black and white. >> also released today ambassador taylor's dramatic testimony about a phone call about how military assistance for ukraine was blocked, that he describes as, quote, stunning. taylor, toward the end of this otherwise normal meeting, a voice on the call, the person who was off screen, said that she was from omb and her boss had instructed her not to approve any additional spending of security assistance for ukraine until further notice. i and the others on the call sat in astonishment. the ukraines were fighting the russians and counted on not only the training and weapons but also the assurance of u.s. support. all that the omb staff person said was that the directive had come from the president to the chief of staff to the omb. in an instance, i realized that one of the key pillars of our strong support for ukraine was threatened. the irregular policy channel was running contrary to the goals of

longstanding u.s. policy. this about his nightmare scenario. questioner, what did you mean by the nightmare, and what would the russians love? taylor, the nightmare is a scenario where president zelensky goes out in public, makes an announcement that he's going to investigate burisma and the election in 2016 interference in the 2016 election, maybe among other things. he might put that in some series of investigations. but he had to. he was going -- the nightmare was he would mention those two, take all the heat from that, get himself in big trouble in this country and probably in his country as well, and the security assistance would not be released. that was the nightmare. i mean, it gives me chills to read this. this is a vietnam war veteran. this is someone who was brought into the state department by mike pompeo. and this is someone who replaced marie yovanovitch who was smeared by rudy giuliani and his folks. i mean, how does this testimony

not break through? >> i think what comes across in his testimony is someone who is very credible, someone who has served this country for more than 50 years including, as you said, in vietnam. and it's credible not just because of who he is, but as he details in this testimony because he took meticulous notes he had two notebooks, one for phone calls, one for meetings, he reconstructed those in giving this testimony. and the thing that was really striking to me in reading his account is not just the way he answered questions from democrats, but the fact that republicans who have been very publicly defending the president and very publicly attacking some of these witnesses weren't able to poke holes in anything that he said. they barely even tried. he came up there and gave this devastating account of how the president extorted the ukrainian government, how he was executing a shakedown and using gordon sondland as his main channel to do that. and bill taylor finds this out and confronts sondland about it and threatens to resign. and the republicans didn't really take him on, on the mere facts of these questions at all. and i think that gives you gi preview of what next week is

going to look like. what are they going to do when bill taylor is sitting before the american public detailing this course of events the way he did in the private testimony, and the republicans don't have anything to challenge those facts. >> you know, it's interesting, and i, you know, i am a student of public opinion. and i am astounded by how dramatically public opinion has swung, not just to openness to the investigations, but a majority of americans supporting donald trump's removal from office suggests that the credibility battle has been waged in bill taylor and marie yovanovitch and people who were describing extortion, a shakedown, certainly have credibility among a majority of americans. >> yeah. and i think it's because this is what we've seen from donald trump, right? like the part of the transcript that really got me the most is when you hear taylor talking about the fact that they were specifically dictating what they wanted president zelensky to say. like, it's not just good enough that you make an announcement. they were telling him to use

phrases like "no stone unturned." like that's a normal tone for ukrainians to use? dictating how the letter to explain the meeting in trump tower. this is what this administration does. they put the squeeze on people, and then they force them to use whatever sort of ridiculous language or presentation that they want. that's i think why this is the one that broke through. people had been hearing from cohen, from mueller, they have been hearing that this is how this administration operates like a bunch of gangsters. and that's why i think they really breaks through. >> and it would seem that while people have been conditioned to trump running anything he runs like a mob family. the one place where people might be uncomfortable with that is foreign policy. >> well, and i think that this is the latest strawman to be knocked down by the members of the gop and other supporters of trump who put up these sort of bogus road blocks. first it was, well, there were no quid pro quos. then we found out there were quid pro quos. well, the whole thing was openache. well, we haven't seen the transcripts. now the transcripts are out. and when you read these

transcripts in their final defense of this is he shouldn't be removed from office because this is just the typical horse trading that occurs. and you realize that of course none of this is typical and it reads like the way a mob family roles. you can substitute the cast members' names from "the godfather." rudy could be tom hagan. and it would read like a script of people strongarming people they want to get a bribe out of. and the other drop is this is going to go to tv. and i think the thing that you are saying, nicole, about public opinion being swayed is there was this drip, drip, drip of leaks. now the transcripts are out and now we are going to roll into televised hearings. >> annie karni, i am amazed and i think that trump has always benefitted by the pace and the variety of stories. this has been a pretty intense and focused news cycle for five

weeks. and that's part of why he can't seem to distract us away from it. but no quid pro quo was his defense very publicly. it was the talking point that he seemed to transmit to his allies on the hail. you have now got page after page after page after page of testimony to precisely that. whereas the questioner is actually saying you understand what a quid pro quo is, this for that. i don't speak latin, but even i knew that. what is the possibility that at some point they will all say, you know, damn right we wanted them to smear biden for their military aid. and this is how we roll. and what are the prospects of other calls being of interest? because it was pointed out to me that he continues to maintain it was a perfect call because that is the nature of all of his calls. >> well, we've seen the argument moving a little bit in the direction you are describing already, which is what i like to

call quid pro so like this argument -- [ laughter ] >> that's good. >> even if i did do, it's still not criminal. >> that's exactly what it is. and it really does mirror their strategy that they had for mueller, which was even if i did it, it wasn't criminal and i was allowed to do it and also undermining the process and saying this is a sham investigation which we are seeing even as it goes on to tv. you know, what i'm hearing from the white house is the strategy now is going to be there's no retroactive justice. we didn't get to have white house lawyers or state department lawyers in the room then. and so this process is messed up from the beginning, and just because it's now it's going to be open doesn't change anything about this being a messed up process. so, he says he's within his rights to do whatever he did, that's their mo here. one problem they will have as this goes to television is that

they haven't had credible witnesses like this come up and testify on tv. we have only seen something like this happen twice. one was michael cohen who was a questionable witness, someone who was a proven liar coming out and telling stories about the president. it wasn't someone like bill taylor or vindman. and the other one is robert mueller himself where after a lot of buildup, that was a case where the book was better than the movie. it wasn't a compelling testimony. and here the question will be we know we've read bill taylor's testimony now, but will seeing him and hearing from him and others be only strengthen the case? >> you know, robert costa, those are good examples of how the president was sort of suspended in time while there was road block coverage of someone other than him, something a close friend of his described to me as enraging him, that he's a sun king and anything that blocks the sun from him bothers him on its face. but i'm also thinking of christine blasey ford. and i remember understanding and hearing that while she was

testifying, he found her to be credible, that he is such a sort of devotee of television that a little piece of his brain has to have some anxiety about the impact of hour after hour after hour and day after day after day of lifelong anonymous diplomats, people who make less than $200,000 a year going on tv and talking about being worried about an american ally sort of losing life-saving weapon systems because donald trump wanted dirt on burisma. >> but you can already see on the horizon the way the republicans are preparing right now to counter that. later this month, the target date is november 20th according to the "post" reporting. the i.g. at the department of justice will release his investigation of the russia investigation. when you were at the capitol this week, you hear republican after republican not want to engage on the substance of the facts of the president's behavior when it comes to foreign policy. but instead trying to turn the

attention and the spotlight and the news cycle to the russia investigation and the i.g. report and then whatever attorney general barr decides to unveil. >> what if they don't find anything? >> that's a challenge for republicans. senator graham and others are convinced that the american people are going to find this intense interest. but it could be a story that only lasts a few days. and another challenge for republicans is not all the material may be declassified at this point. that's up to the department of justice. >> i think that's a very high-stakes play. i think that the president himself has been the one streaming at the top of his lungs for the country to move on for years. i think three years to be exact. but now he wants us to fwiing all of our cameras away from the ukraine and cover bill barr's, you know, globe-hopping where's waldo attorney general trip to look for dirt on his own intelligence agency, really, that's the plan? >> in one sense he wants the

world to move on. on the other sense if you watch john hannity every night they still haven't moved on from the hillary clinton investigation. they want to move on when it's useful to them. bob costa's story is really great. >> it's incredible. >> and i think one of the troubling things you can see how they are trying to use this as counterprogramming. when you have lindsey graham meeting with the attorney general about the rollout of this report, something completely inappropriate, something we never did when i was at the justice department to meet with one side of the hill to talk about the rollout of an inspector general report. you can see them coming up with ways to counterprogram. president trump has announced that president erdogan is going to be here on wednesday, the same day of the taylor testimony, where they are going to try to have something to say other than, you know, something for the world to talk about other than what's going on, on the hill, whether it'll be successful, i have no idea. but certainly it gives the channels they want people to watch something to talk about. >> it is an incredible piece of reporting.

let me give you the last word on that, robert costa. >> you are just seeing a republican party right now in the wake of the political race in kentucky for governor, and the suburban defeats in places like the philadelphia suburbs on edge. but they have a limited options in their view when you talk to them privately about how to handle the coming year. and so they are just not wanting to talk about the actual impeachment investigation. and instead looking for ways to either duck and cover or just move forward and focus on other issues like the i.g. report. it's a republican party that's held together in a fragile way but so far holding together because they see president trump as the political capital they need. >> robert costa, annie karni, thank you both for starting us off. after the break as the house gets ready to take its impeachment investigation into a meeting that donald trump knows well, television, republicans stoop to new lows to defend the indefensible. we are joined by someone who sat in on many of the key depositions. and also a no good very bad

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we are getting an increasing appreciation for just what took place during the course of the last year and the degree to which the president enlisted whole departments of government in the illicit aim of trying to get ukraine to dig up dirt on a political opponent, as well as

further conspiracy theory about the 2016 election that he believed would be beneficial to his re-election campaign. so those open hearings will be an opportunity for the american people to evaluate the witnesses for themselves, to make their own determinations about the kred kriblt of the witnesses. but also to learn first hand about the facts of the president's misconduct. >> starting next week the reality show "president" we'll be able to watch on tv along with the rest of the country as career diplomats and public servants, men and women of the military will testify in public on tv, the same professionals who have corroborated one another's accounts as well as the whistle-blower complaint that put the whole thing in motion. next wednesday ambassador bill taylor and state department official george kent will appear followed by former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch on friday. joining our conversation democratic congressman eric swalwell who sits on both the intel and judiciary committees. you have been in a lot of these

depositions, right? >> i have. >> what is the strategy for keeping this story and this scandal simple for people to understand? >> defense, dollars for dirt. that's what was going on here. but i think bill taylor laid out something, you know, in his transcript which is important. he said that undoubtedly without the security assistance, more ukrainians will die. we're a very compassionate people. >> yeah. >> and even more so sometimes i thought over the last few weeks there was concern about the potential genocide of the kurds by the turks and that really bothered, you know, republicans and democrats. when people start to hear in public that every day dollars were held up for the ukrainians, those were ukrainians who were dying in the eastern part of their country. >> but you are talking about the serious things that motivating and compelled truthful testimony from men and women like fiona hill, like marie yovanovitch, like ambassador bill taylor. and there is that really powerful news account about bill taylor sort of standing where he

could see the russian threat. there used to be republicans in congress who felt that way, too. but i think it's more likely that you see circus animals in the public hearings. how do you combat life and death nature and the seriousness of this with the lunacy from house republicans, the protests, the questions in here? >> and the stunts that they will likely try and carry out. but these are serious witnesses. these are not the president's friends, as some in the past have testified and they had credibility issues. serious witnesses. >> are you talking about michael cohen and roger stone and paul manafort, all his friends in jail? [ laughter ] >> so serious witnesses, credible and also people who have a lot of character. and that's going to come out. that's what came out in our deposition hearings. they also have no dog in the fight. these people, they go overseas, put their heads down for two to

three years. they are away from their family. they are away from their home country serving in the interest of the united states. this is going to be one of the most patriotic things they can do which is defy the president's orders and just come and tell the truth. >> how does this end? >> well, we are going to put the best case forward. i think the allegation is extortion essentially. and we are going to put credible witnesses forward. it's pretty clear that all the arrows point in the direction that the president was leading the scheme. but i think the best case also is a fair case. it's not just the facts behind the case. the public has to perceive it as the president had his day in court. and then it's in the senate's court. but all i can do is one of the investigators now is to put forth a fair case. >> it feels like there is a lot of restraint. you guys are letting the transcripts do the talking, the witnesses, some of them have chosen to release their opening statements, speak for themselves. how much of this is coming from the speaker and the restraint she is exhibited around the question of impeachment since the mueller report ended? and how much of this is sort of just this cold calculation that the only way to get from a to

wherever you want to go is to keep it to just the facts? >> and the facts speak for themselves. we don't need, you know, freelancing members of congress. we have facts and witnesses who are serious and credible. >> like, is there a call every day where you're like, hey, you guys don't go on msnbc and say crazy stuff? [ laughter ] like, how is that operationalized? >> just a reminder, guys, don't be crazy. i mean, the speaker has been solemn the whole way through. talks about her oath to the constitution. but also the fair process that the president has to have even when people admit to crimes in america. they get a day in court if they choose. and chairman schiff i think you will see is very focused. he is very purposeful. but he's not going to stand for, you know, these stunts if they try and pull them off. and i think when you see stunts compared to serious witnesses, people are going to assume that the stunts are only there because they don't want to accept the underlying facts. but this is an opportunity.

again, i am not going to rat my republican colleagues off. this is an opportunity for them to get serious. i understand they saw themselves as the president's public defenders in these closed depositions. now the lights are on, the american people are watching and they want to know for the sake of our children is this acceptable in our country? >> i mean, it is a question they have to answer because if the next president is a democrat and they pick up the phone and ask the french to dig up dirt on an opponent, i mean, they are laying down markers. i want to ask you about something in the weeds because i think our viewers follow every tick and tock. it was reported just before we came on the air that mr. kupperman, who was mr. bolton's deputy, he'd been subpoenaed, his lawyer mr. cooper had filed a lawsuit to whom he answers which had invoked executive immunity. you guys dropped the subpoena, why? >> i will let the chairman speak to that. we think that ambassador bolton should come and testify. that's why we have asked him to come in. we think mr. kupperman, his deputy should come in and testify. but we are also not going to

chase the president to the courts. if he's going to tell witnesses not to testify, we will assume two things. one, that's a consciousness of guilt that they can't come in and help him. and, two, that that is something that should be considered for obstruction of congress when we look at potential articles of impeachment. >> are those written? >> no. as far as i know they are not written. i have not seen articles. and again i think it's important that we have an open mind right now. because the president is entitled to his, you know, days in court. and we should -- if he has exonerating witnesses, he should send them to us, though. if he doesn't, the conclusion is that what he said and what mick mulvaney's co-signed on and what these witnesses have said is all true. >> let me ask you about any sort of, you know, you're right, the speaker has set a very somber tone. but is there a sense of the history of this? because you talk about an additional article for obstruction of congress. that was one of the nixon articles, abuse of power obviously one of the nixon

articles. i think it's established whether you love trump or hate trump, he has no idea of american political history. i mean, how much is sort of the sad, short history of impeaching a president on your mind? >> well, in the two instances in the last 50 years, they involved the cover-up being bigger than the crime. here the crime alleged $391 million of taxpayer dollars. that's a lot bigger than the cover-up. we think the cover-up is going on. but this is a lot bigger than, you know, asking people to lie for you. this is taxpayer dollars inviting a foreign power to help. and actually it's more mindful of what the founders warned us about was that they envisioned that foreign powers may want to have their candidates or people that they thought would be helpful win in america, and they designed a system that sought to protect against that. and that's what we're called to do right now. the. >> all right. we somehow talked you into staying so we are going to ask you to stick around. after the break since he called mexicans rapists and

murderers and talked about grab women, republicans have talking about being indefensible. u.s. ally to dig up dirt on the bidens has tripped up donald trump's faithful if soleless defenders. not since helsinki have the republicans struggled so mightily or publicly to stand by their man with a persistent grip. that story next. gold!

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president's party has had a really hard time trying to defend him. and as more details emerge it's getting increasingly hard to do so. recently the republicans are all over the place. >> there are perfectly appropriate quid pro quos, and there are inappropriate quid pro quos. just saying that there is a quid pro quo at least based on my analysis of the evidence that i've seen so far is a read herring. >> i trust president zelensky and president trump and i trust the fact that the ukrainians didn't know that aid with been withheld. >> what i can tell you about the trump policy toward the ukraine, it was incoherent. it depends on who you talk to. they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo. i am not going to read these transcripts. the whole process is a joke. >> that's so incoherent, i think 11 people have testified to aid for dirt.

>> yes. and also what's frustrating is that many of the members, it's not just lindsey graham who won't read the transcripts. a lot of my republican colleagues, as you can read them, the attendants aren't showing up for these really, really important witnesses. and, again, it's going to be a reset when we have the public hearings. it's time to get serious. and the american people are going to demand that their members of congress get serious. >> how is fox news going to cover this? and there are good and decent journalists working there who i'm sure will cover the news of this. what's incomprehensible is what the three of them are saying, the four of them if you put meadows. i'm not speaking sentences are, but none of them were in defense of trump. >> i say, i say, i didn't really know. like, the amount of stumbling that they are doing. here's i think what will be difficult is they can go attack

the people. they can find whatever kind of dirt they want. but at the end of the day the american people, everybody knows what the squeeze is, right? everybody knows what happens when someone's putting the screws to you to make you do something that you don't want to do. and the only way that fox can attack it is sort of work in concert with the republican party to say the process is bad, but you can't really complain about the process when it's public. everyone has their chance to fight. everyone has their chance to make a statement. i think that's going to be the real danger. and i think long-term what republicans would really be concerned about, and i always keep saying this, i say this all the times. it's the holidays. people are going to be talking about this now. >> that's what i saw you say. people go home for thanksgiving and they are with their family. >> everyone's going to be processing this. we are going to have these hearings. we are going to have the democratic debates and then everybody is going to go home and talk about it. and if they have not managed to switch their narrative before the second round of turkey, they're done. i don't think the republicans are going to be able to do that, not with the public sentiment towards impeachment has been improving for democrats over and

over and over again before we even got to these hearings. i can't imagine the hearings working against them. >> can you imagine any scenario where republicans are forced by the fact patterns, by public opinion, to call down there and say we've got to censor you, we've got to do something. >> i think more evidence has to come out that's damning. we have talked a lot about how trump has gotten control of the gop and that fox is essentially his prop gandists. what's common to all of that is they all live in this reality of this distortion field. that's classic trump. you deny facts. you deny what's right in front of your face. you end up with these absurdities of lindsey graham saying i am not even going to read the transcript, i don't care about the fact, but i am going going to damn the whole process all along. i think that that's the institutional danger in all of this and the long-term damage trump can cause is delegitimizing facts and institution and process in the service of his own survival.

>> i think the danger though, i think when lindsey graham says i am not going to read the transcripts he means to insult you. when you treat voters like they are stupid, it backfires. what he's saying is there's nothing in there that will -- >> change my mind. >> exculpatory for the president. it's sort of like the mike pencification of the senate republicans. >> he is making the mick mulvaney argument which is get over it basically. when they come out and make these arguments that everyone knows don't make any sense, they are not really trying to convince anyone with these arguments. they are just telling you get over it. when he says, when lindsey graham who just three weeks ago did an interview with axios and was asked, well, is there anything you would find disturbing? and he said, sure, evidence of the president engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, i would find that disturbing. and then a couple days after we get that evidence, he says, well, i'm not going to read the transcript. >> that was good. it entertained me. >> show me something that is a crime. if you could show me that, you know, trump actually was

engaging in a quid pro quo outside the phone call, that would be very disturbing. >> there you have it. the congressman has it right here, the transcript. >> and the quid pro quo is there, and lindsay's just saying get over it basically. >> and i think for the president is his defense is in conflict with their defense for him. they are not saying, well, it's a quid pro quo, but there are good quid pro quos and bad quid pro quos and the president's like, no, no quid pro quo. and you have to at least be aligned in your defense. and, again, i think when you see all these witnesses come in, it's going to be crystal clear to the american people this was a shakedown, defense dollars for dirt. it's a question of is that what we want the president to do? some people may say this is what we elected when we got donald trump. i think most americans are going to say our president should be better than that. >> and i would just add that i think most republicans think that he's someone who isn't too weak and too impotent to have to

cheat. to be incapable of winning without cheating. >> but donald trump has cheated since he was 20 years old. donald trump is a 73-year-old man. he's been doing this for 53 years. what you see in these transcripts is what donald trump did in real estate. it's how he rolled in atlantic city. he was in business with mobsters in new york and atlantic city. he admires people who are thugs. he surrounded himself with people who have thug-like profiles whether it's corey lewandowski or rudy giuliani or steve bannon. he likes guys who talk the talk. that's not going to change. >> yeah. well, we'll see. congressman, thank you for spending some time with us. after the break, the election results donald trump really, really, really, really hopes you don't see. that's next. after my dvt blood clot, i wondered.

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are th you can't let that happen to me. >> i don't know what to say. donald trump told kentucky to make the governor's race all about him, and they did, and the guy lost. nbc news projects andy beshear, matt bevin who framed the race as a referendum on trump and the issue of impeachment. bevin has so far refused to concede. but republicans are now in spin mode, damage control mode, if you will, insisting the president was the only reason the race was close in the first place. after all, trump who won the state by 30 points in 2016 was in kentucky 12 hours before voters went to the polls there. although no one is really making the case that kentucky's now a swing state, the race does have a big picture implications. less than a year until the 2020 election surrounding trump in big-city suburbs. our friend bob costa wrote this.

quote, trump continues to dominate the party. but many lawmakers are uneasy about their ability to defend his conduct and hold onto suburban support. yet few republicans are willing to even lightly criticize trump because they widely believe they need his voters' backing and enthusiasm in order to survive next year. the table's back. jason, listen, this is where, you know, if you take your soul out of it, you end up in that vice. but if you put your soul back in it, you distance yourself from this conduct. >> you would think so. and bevin made the mistake that no one is ever supposed to make. when you're running for governor, you are supposed to stay local. but he had to make it national because he angered everybody locally. he went after health care and made people angry. i don't think a lot of people recognize this nationally. he got rid of his sitting lieutenant governor who was an african-american woman who was his african-american republican lieutenant governor. he dumped her and picked somebody else when he ran for re-election. he had done all of these things to alienate himself from

republicans and independents in kentucky. he says, oh, it's not you, it's me. yeah, it is you. and you're the problem and you lost. so that's the issue. one thing i have heard from republican operatives who still look for trump's assistance and races that they run is that he's a terrible surrogate, that obama was really good, bush was really good because they go in and they sell the candidate. trump is incapable of selling his wife and kids if they are the person or the figure head being celebrated. i mean, he sells himself. he is the show. he is the draw. and it makes it harder to say, oh, it wasn't my fault. he went in there and sold himself. he made this a referendum on himself. >> yeah. it's like, you know, you invite a clown to cheer people up. and the clown is like let me tell you about my day. that's donald trump. you invite him anywhere to talk about your campaign and he is going to start meandering about his own issues. the district that he came to ended for going for beshear.

the republicans need to realize that donald trump's magic may only work in certain districts. you have to be very careful how he is deployed. and i think again going into 2020, if he is an impeached president, if he is an impeached president, i don't know if i'd want him in my district. >> all right. you got your tease there from jason. it wasn't just kentucky, that story on the other side of the break. break. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here's why...medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. this part is up to you. a medicare supplement plan helps pay for some of what medicare doesn't. call unitedhealthcare insurance company today to request this free decision guide. and learn about the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp. selected for meeting their high standards

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also had a very, very, very bad day in virginia. tim, i feel like i can already answer this question before i ask you. like, donald trump is incapable of taking responsibility for any of this. but do you think there's any recalibration among the people around him? >> i have to think that mitch mcconnell looked at kentucky and they've looked at what happened with suburban turnout and little beads on his political advocates are getting moved up and down. and i think that matters in terms of how he decide to handle the trial in the senate and how long gop stands fully behind trump. i don't think any of this is going to come home to roost quickly enough to change the outcome in the senate. but of course it's got to worry them. and -- and, you know, i was talking to a long-time republican consultant last night who said one of the things that all the gop pollsters and consultants are scared right now is about how energized voters are. and you're going to have a big turnout and a big turnout is good for the democrats and donald trump is this centrifugal

energizing force of people away from him towards change. i think these things are indoces of that. >> but -- except when i am. and if you look at the midterms and you look at where the victories were, i mean, i think you look at where the blow were, they were in the -- and i spent a lot of time in 2016 out talking to women. the women's vote in these kinds of suburban counties. and you look at virginia. i mean, he is -- and he may bring out enough new voters in rural parts of these states. but he is turning off suburban voters in a way that is indisputable. >> all over the country. that's in some way the unifying story last night. it was true in kentucky where suburban cincinnati voters turned out in huge numbers and voted for the -- for beshear the way -- in -- in a reverse of how they had voted four years ago. it was true in virginia. it was true in the counties

surrounding philadelphia. a county there that had been controlled by republicans since the civil war. donald trump, the one thing about him is he is polarizing. everyone talks about his base and it's true he's been able to unite white, working-class voters and he has a turnout machine for white, working-class voters. but the other side of that is he doesn't just repel suburban voters but he turns them out. turn out machine in kentucky last night both for his side and the other side. and if you look at where senate races are going to be decided in the next term, arizona, colorado, maine, places with big suburban communities. gets back to this question of how nervous mitch mcconnell starts to be having donald trump at the top of the ticket. >> i feel like you watch these things with realism. we're almost out of time. >> i saw in virginia and i saw in kentucky that you have a president that people want to take a swing at. even people who like their local republicans and like their republican governors, they can't stand this guy and they're looking at these local elections

as a way to say i don't like you donald trump and they're taking it to the voting booth. >> like an outlet. >> yeah. >> very interesting. we are going to sneak in our last break. we'll be right back. o sneak in r last break we'll be right back. ♪ born to be wild... born to be wild...♪ 25 cent boneless wings at applebee's. get 'em while they're hot. doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere.

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if you could have seen the breaks, they were so good. my thanks to matt miller, tim o'brien, jason johnson. most of all, to you for watching. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. ts now welcome to wednesday. it's "meet the press daily" and wow. what a day after an election day. good evening. i am chuck todd in washington where republicans just suffered a series of bruising defeats at the ballot box. and democrats just scheduled public impeachment hearings. welcome to a whirlwind of news today. we are following both of those big stories tonight. and neither of them look very good for the president and possibly for his