to our colleague and leader on this milestone. i'm going to say get out right on time. happy, happy birthday to "hardball," chris matthews, that whole team. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. 20 years of "hardball." let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. i'll be joined later in the show by a few special guests including one you've often heard me call the queen. we start with the news tonight. business news tonight. a conspiracy so immense that it includes the president's chief of staff, his lawyer, his designated envoy and a hijacked state department. new transcripts released "today"

show how the president and his deputies used their power to subvert u.s. foreign policy in favor of a political agenda. the evidence against the president continues to mount. that effort is described in the testimonies of a current and former member of the president's national security council. lieutenant colonel alexander vinman and alexandra hall. sundland said it was contingent on the political dirt trump was seeking. as a prerequisite to getting face time with trump at the white house, the ukrainians would have to deliver an investigation into the bidens. according to vinman and fiona hill, that came from mick mulvaney, the same official who froze military aid to ukraine on orders from the president. vinman said by august it became evident that the freeze on

military aid was, quote, an added pressure point to obtain the deliverable from ukraine emphasizing that the message was clear and that the logic there seems inescapable. he also testified that having listened to trump's call with president zelensky, there was no doubt, his phrase, no doubt about the favor trump wanted. as vindman described it the power disparate between the president of the united states and the president of ukraine is vast. it was a demand from zelensky -- for zelensky to fulfill this particular prerequisite in order to get this meeting with the president. i'm joined by betsy swan and java dahli and steve schmidt, you're back. former republican strategist. thank you all for joining us. i want to start with betsy, a top reporter on this story. boy, the layers and the layers

and what grabbed me tonight was the breadth of it. it's like the line from the woodward and bernstein book on watergate. all the president's men. so many people involved in this caper, the screw, the information and the dirt out of this little president from ukraine. >> the way this project is structured is also classic trump. remember during the mueller investigation, one area that appeared was trump sending his subordinates or directing his subordinates to try to pressure mueller, to try to pressure sessions to reverse his recusal. trump insulated himself and having them essentially do what we would likely view as dirty work and we're seeing the exact same thing here when it comes to the president's efforts to pressure ukraine to investigate the family and his political rival rather than trump himself

directly telling zelensky, he keeps himself insulated, covers for himself and he dispatches his chief of staff and rudy giuliani to essentially turn the screws. >> let me bring in steve on this. one of your political sense here. the number of people he attached to this, brought them in from different corners. everybody with the same mission, screw this information, the stand-up information, this press conference with a big video attached to it. the president of ukraine saying i'm studying, i'm investigating this bad guy, joe biden. it seemed to me that it was like a ricoh case, all kinds of teathers to get this done. >> for sure. that focus of u.s. policy was clearly to launch this investigation against joe biden. it's just a profound and i mean profound abuse of power. it's almost unfathomable. you have the president of the united states. the issue is military aid to

ukraine which is fighting a hot war with russia on its eastern front. the ukraine needs the american military assistance. congress has passed it. the president of the united states is taking actions that serve in the end the interests of the russian federation, serve the interests of vladimir putin and he's allowing that to happen subborting our national security interests to his self interests to the politics of the moment trying to get a foreign head of state to interfere, intervene in an american presidential election with an investigation. and the idea that you could do that as the president of the united states to any u.s. citizen is terrifying and it's a serious breach of power that i think we've seen out of a white house in both of our lifetimes. it's extraordinary. >> it sure is. i'm able to stance the pleading from the ukraine investigation.

they're launching a desperate bid to save the president by sacrificing three of trump's top deputies. that's according to the washington post which reports today republicans are sewing doubts about whether sondland, gully on any and mulvaney were actually representing the president or freelancing. they were rogue. the gop is effectively offering up the three to be fall guys. javid, is this credible? the chief of staff was head of omb, the president's special envoy, our ambassador to the european union and the president's lawyer who's doing all kinds of work over there for him. the dirty work. the wet work. doing all of that work over there and it isn't coming from him. >> it seems implausible and one thing this ukraine investigation seemed to show is how much of a deviation has occurred from the traditional national security council and decision-making process to what may have happened with rudy giuliani and

mick mulvaney and ambassador sondland. you had two parallel streams. >> one controls all of the money, that's the head of omb. we're cutting off aid. the other guy saying, you know what you've got to do to get the money. you have to go to a nearest microphone and said, i'm investigating joe biden. >> that seems to be such a deviation. >> we're defining this downward. >> it exists for 70 years, and for a reason. >> the nsa where you worked was to coordinate all u.s. aspects of our foreign policy, correct? >> correct. >> you're discovering there's a hijacking going on. last month president trump referred to ambassador sondland as a really goodman and great american. since he changed his testimony and is now implicating trump in a quid pro quo or a bribery, the president isn't so sure about sondland. watch him now.

>> jordan sondland said the beginning of december he presumed there was a quid pro quo. then there was a telephone call on september the 9th. had he ever talked to you prior to that telephone call? >> let me just tell you, i hardly know the gentleman. >> he has done that before. i heard that before. i don't know the guy. anyway, of course, this is the first time the president has used the i hardly knew him defense to minimize his ties to people who may pose a threat to him. >> james comey, i hardly know the man. i'm not going to say, i want you to know. >> i never mitt him. >> i don't know putin. >> i don't know matt whitaker. he worked for jeff sessions. >> manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. >> that's why they have a ricoh charge. who loves to pull this, set it up like this? they have everybody doing what they want them to do but they can deny all the relationships. >> one thing we've also seen through trump's presidency is that when he tries to use this

defense, it can backfire. in the case of michael cohen it's clear that part of the reason he was so frustrated with the president and decided to flip was informed by the fact that trump seems to be essentially trying to disassociate himself from him. that said, sondland is still framing his testimony in a way that is sort of designed to firm up this defense that trump is making. remember, even though he updated or clarified his testimony just a couple of days ago to say, actually, i did think there was a quid pro quo, despite that, he's still saying technically no one ever told me. that's something that even though it might not have much credibility with the typical viewer will be really valuable to the congressional republicans and you can expect them to hammer in open testimony. >> let's talk about politics. you know it better than i. you've been at a higher level than all of us. let me ask you this, does anybody doubt who the boss is? i mean, the boss is the boss. in this case, it is trump.

you do what he wants you to do. everybody does what he wants to you do, right? >> that's the fall line. we don't pledge allegiance to an individual in this country. our system isn't built on a cult to a personality. when officers commissioned by the white house with mick mulvaney is an ambassador, they swear an oath to preserve, protect, defend the constitution of the united states and that's what this is. is we have people who are working for the american people that are supposed to be public servants who have become obedient lap dogs to the leader. this is not healthy in a democracy, and it represents really a fundamental sickness in our system that we see playing out every day. in the end the politics of this, chris, what is it that the republican defenders and enablers on the hill are defending here. they're defending the right of a future democratic president to abuse his or her power by deducing investigations of u.s.

persons, u.s. citizens for their political advantage? the abuse of power, the abuse of the office and the willingness of people to subordinate what they know is right to this guy is an astounding moment in our national life. and it is something i think that ten years ago if you had woken up from a coma you wouldn't be able to comprehend it at any conceivable level. >> it reminds me of the days of the faroes where they would kill all of the slaves after they buried the faroes so nobody knew how to get into the tomb. they killed them all. that's what they're doing to these people. thank you betsy, javid, steve schmidt is going to stick with us in the next segment. the shocking new book from the anonymous writer who says he's a senior trump administration official possibly still in the white house. in it the author of the book, anonymous, describes trump as

dangerous like a 12-year-old in the air traffic control tower. plus, 20 years of playing "hardba "hardball" i'm going to look back at the guests we have. live guests to talk about the last 20 years, the last generation of "hardball." stick with us. >> i've been watching you for 20 years and i am still struck by your insights and the way you get politics and get into areas where nobody else would have thought of it. >> deeply moved by your journalistic clarity and more importantly by the truth you bring to all of us. >> high, chris. i want to wish you a very happy 20th anniversary. i remember a little bit more than 20 years ago when you told a group of us that you were thinking of doing a tv show. i thought, what? and now here you are. i cannot believe it's been 20

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welcome back to "hardball." a new book by anonymous. a senior official in the trump administration, perhaps in the white house itself, paints a disturbing picture of the president often describes as erratic, disinterested and deteriorating. excerpts of "a warning" obtained by the "rachel maddow show" the author writes about the challenges of briefing president trump. quote, if the aim was to educate this new commander in chief, they couldn't submit a 50 page report, expect him to read it and then discuss it adding, others discovered that if they walked into the oval office with a simple graphic that trump liked, it would more than do the trick. well, the washington post also

acquired a copy of the book. one ebs serpt recounts the president railing against federal court decisions including the 2017 travel ban. the president asked the lawyer, can we just get rid of the judges. get rid of the expletive judges. there shouldn't be any at all really. another is it's like showing up at the nursing home at daybreak to find your elderly uncle running pantsless across the courtyard. nbc news hasn't seen the excerpts obtained by the post or able to confirm those contents. the author's account is anonymous. the whole book is anonymous. what do you make of these excerpts that leaked out about how you have to communicate with this guy? it seems like a very simple person that you have to go with a picture and talk to him like -- it's speaking another language. >> yeah. i'm not sure, chris, i

understand what the revelation is. three years on that every day he proves his unrelenting ignorance, his nastiness, his infidelity to the freedoms of the country and he's authoritarian by his nature. the idea that he's unprepared, doesn't want to know anything or, worse, thinks he knows everything, isn't news. we see it play out hour by hour, tweet by tweet. >> i can go with you intellectually but graphically. the president's son, donald trump jr., has written a book in "triggered" he reminisces about a visit to arlington national cemetery writing, i rarely get emotional, if ever, yet as we drove past the rows of white grave markers, in the moment i had a sense of the deep sense of presidency. i thought of all the attacks we

had already suffered as a family and all the sacrifices we'd have to make to help my father succeed voluntarily giving up a huge chunk of our business and all international deals to avoid the appearance we were profiting -- here's a kid who's inspired by grave markers of the lost and courageous that think about how their family had given up millions. >> it's the nation's most hallowed ground, arlington national cemetery. a sacred space. incredible place where you see the great sacrifice by american patriots to preserve this experiment. you read don jr. saying that, it's an episode from veep. it's hard to believe that an actual human being, you know, with senchants wrote that down. i don't know what to say about it. it's incredible. >> well, it's grow tess being,

let's start with that, steve. >> it is grow tess being. >> you're back the last couple of weeks. what do you think? is trump deteriorating or is what we saw when we elected him, what we've got now, is it different? is it worse? >> i do think it's worse because as time goes on, i think the chances for something very bad to happen go up. and i think that right now we're in the consequences stage of the trump presidency. we have thousands of isis fighters that have escaped. we see bloodshed in syria caused by the rashness of his decision. we see devastation for family farmers because of the trade war that he's precipitated. and in the end it could be that the trump presidency, the consequence of it, are felt by all of us in a very, very bad way, but i think when you look at the totality of the presidency in this moment with a

year to go, we're heading into the most consequential election since 1864. the country has to make a decision whether to repudiate or embrace trump in trumpism. to embrace that fundamentally changes the nature of the american republic in a way that none of us would have envisioned ten years ago. >> i'm waiting for the democrats to nominate general mcclellin. it's great to have you back in the saddle. joe scarborough and mika brzezinski escort me down memory lane. you're not going to want to miss this. stick around for the final. hey, chris, congratulations on the 20th anniversary of "hardball." what an incredible milestone. >> i can't believe it's been 20 years. huge, enormous congratulations for an extraordinary run in a very, very tough business. >> hey, chris, congratulations.

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20 years! >> let's play "hardball." ha! >> obama drama. >> cheney meany. >> to the moon and back. >> no one's ever late for an execution. >> don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree.

>> to huckabee or not to be. >> so is the newt scoop mute. >> high noon on gun control. >> hope for the pope. >> mutiny of the whacko birds. >> is the free world free from fear. >> could it be trump versus hillary. >> you say you want a revolution. >> size matters, daze day four. >> friends without benefits. >> white house rumble. >> to russia with love. >> mueller time. >> individual one. >> a trumped up emergency. >> cohen doubles down. >> bar fight. >> who's afraid of big, bad mueller. >> second term or prison term? >> the whistle-blower. >> or the tweeter. >> i'm chris matthews, let's play "hardball." >> oh, my god. >> second term or prison term. but size matters. i mean, let's just stop right there. >> we're going to stop there. chris, seriously that's the most important part of the day for

mika. everything else revolves around 7 p.m. every night. >> it's true. >> when did you get that idea? >> in the cold open, i guess a couple of things. there's an 80-year-old kid once said they loved the show because they loved the opening. they loved the let's play "hardball" like you created "morning joe" with mika. let's play "hardball" and we kept saying it. a lot of this stuff, tell me something i don't know on the sunday show. a lot of it, you do it once, yeah, let's do that. that's how it works. >> how did we do? >> you did good. you got the hoot pretty well, joe. >> you've got to say -- >> you've got to say a hiccup. you can't plan to do it. it just comes. >> it's called "hardball" for a reason, mika. >> exactly. it is. over the past two decades chris has earned his reputation as one of the toughest interviewers on television. let's watch.

>> tell me what chamberlin did wrong. >> neville chamberlin was an appeaser. >> what did he do? >> he was an appeaser. >> what did he do? >> his -- his policies, the things that neville chamberlin supported. >> tell me what he did. >> are you an innocent man? >> very much so and i've been wronged, chris. i never, ever intended to sell a senate seat for financial gain. that prosecutor mutilated the truth. i was conducting politics to get the most done for the people of illinois. >> yeah, but you -- that's the problem. we're just going in a circle, governor. we've just gone in a circle. >> why? >> you said you did nothing wrong. two minutes ago you said you didn't know if it was wrong. why does your party want a national law against gay marriage? why are you talking about rape victims? why don't you stay out of people's lives if you want limited government. >> maybe it's you're so

misguided that -- >> i read your party's platform. do you? i read the platform. it's not just rotten apples. >> was he legitimately like the united states? >> i wasn't in congress to do that. >> can you repeat after me? >> president obama was elected president. >> legitimately. >> the people elected him, yes. >> legitimately. so he was a natural born citizen? >> i didn't make that judgment when he was brought in. >> are you tomorrow dell lay with your political and professional and career history in the united states government questioning this man's bonafides. >> no, no. >> you want to see his paper. >> chris, the constitution of the united states specifically says -- >> i know it. but i'm never asked you for yours. >> a couple people said they believe president obama is a legitimately -- >> confirmed that and donald trump now confirms that. hillary clinton -- >> when did he do that? when did he do that? >> he did that two years ago. >> when did he do that? >> two years ago, three years

ago. >> he has now accepted that birtherism was nonsense? >> look, hillary clinton -- >> when did he do that? >> chris, hillary clinton's -- >> he did not do that yet. i am waiting for him to do it. >> ken cuccinelli could have said, do you know terry mccull live holds the position -- >> how do you know that's a policy of terry mccall live. >> i don't. i would ask ken to make sure terry mccall live is asked -- >> public colleges and universities should be tuition fee. >> how do you pass it through the senate? >> wait a second. >> we're going to pay for it -- >> who's going to pass that tax? >> the american -- >> the senate's going to pass that? >> chris, you and i look at the world differently. you look at it inside the beltway. i'm not an inside the beltway. >> the people who vote on taxes are inside the beltway. >> who's your favorite foreign leader? >> name anyone in the country. >> i guess i'm having an aleppo

moment in the former president -- >> i'm giving you the whole world. >> i know. >> anybody in the world you like. anybody. pick any leader. >> the former president of mexico. >> which one? >> i'm having a brain -- >> name anybody. >> oh, my god. >> unbelievable. >> chris. >> that was incredible. >> so your interviews are tough. your interviews are honest. you know your stuff and that's all part of it, but is the secret sauce your love for politics? what is it? >> well, in those cases i sort of scanned the intellectual map to figure what doesn't this guy know or this person know what they're talking about. like with trump on abortion rights. it wasn't punish the woman. he didn't know. i try to figure out what they don't know and ask them what they don't know. ask them what they don't want to talk about. i do push them. i get accused of badgering them. other shows generally can ask

the question twice before people say you're badgering the witness. i usually do it for three and then i still get attacked on social media. >> or four or five. >> because the people who back these candidates don't want them to be hit with hard questions. they don't like hard questions like name a world leader. name a world leader if you're running for president of the united states. >> not a problem. >> unbelievable. i thought your back and forth with bernie was really revealing. how funny, a guy that's been in washington, d.c., for a quarter of a century is calling you a washington insider. that's funny. you know, whether it's donald trump saying mexico is going to pay for the wall or bernie saying that he's going to get 60 votes for free college or we have elizabeth warren -- it seems like every four years people make promises that just aren't realistic. how important is it that you've been there and, again, it's not what you're for or what you're against, it's what you know is

possible. politics is the art of the possible and you learned that at the shoulder of one of the greats in congressional history, tip o'neill. >> you know, joe, you know the whole thing. you served the house. you know how it works the the senate is the cooling dish. the cooling saucer. it takes 60 votes. for example, senator warren said she's going to get rid of the filibuster role. go ahead and try because there's a lot of traditional democrats who believe in the institution and know the senate is distinct from the house and it's hard to get something through there. you get rid of the filibuster rule, it's the house with less members. it's easier said than done. every time i hear about free health care, okay. if you can do that with 50 votes or 51 votes, you'll get rid of it with 50 or 51 votes the next election. you have a recession, another

party comes in, they get rid of that stuff. you have to build your house on a stronger foundation than 50 votes. you need 60 votes. >> has anything prepared you for the age we find ourselves in where you have a white house and, in fact, a large part of my former republican party who lives by, as kellyanne conway talked about, alternative reality, alternative facts, the truth as is known. the objective truth just doesn't matter. >> well, you know, back when i went to college before you guys we didn't have google, any of that social media. you couldn't look up anything. at midnight when you were arguing with somebody in the dorm the way to shut somebody up was five bucks. that was a lot of money. five bucks. boy, people shut up with that. you bet. we'll go check in the library tomorrow. it is one way to shut people up. you're not going to bet 5

dollars unless you knew you were right. that could buy three or four meals. it tells you who's bluffing. put your money where your mouth is. i think it worked. tough people. >> next up, chris, your producers scoured the "hardball" vault for memorable memories with celebrities and politicians. >> great. >> let me ask you, ben, this is something i'm thrilled with. darrell hammond does me well. i try to do him sometimes he's so damn good at me. i have heard through the grapevine, my producers, that you can do me. >> all right, ben affleck. you're on the show. you're an actor, an idiot. what are you here for? what have you got? i'm sitting with david giurg again. what do you know? >> i think that was howard cosell. nice try. >> i heard your uncle got ahold

of -- >> first of all, it's an honor to be on here. >> got ahold of robert deniro. the accents we were laughing about off air. all of the philly talk he insisted that deniro, one of the great actors of all time get it right. >> yeah. bob, you know, really is very -- >> do you like to call deniro robert better than bob? >> i like to call him bob. >> he vowed to lower incarceration rates. "hardball" how are you going to do it, reverend? >> i want to grow up to be president. you want to grow up to be chris matthews. >> you have a broadcaster's voice. >> thanks. i'm going to stick to my day job if they'll let me. >> maybe this is a trick question -- >> never would chris matthews

ask a trick question, would you think? my problem is that i have the chris matthews syndrome. i want to break in, i want to talk too fast and i want to cram too much information and you'd be loudy at these debates, chris. >> let's talk about who you'd like to see win for professional reasons who would be the best setup material. >> can i ask a question? >> yes, sir. >> can you slow it down a peg? >> no. no. what's the answer? >> i feel like i've got oatmeal on my head. >> let me ask you a question slower. who would you as a comedian most like to see elected as a president? >> as a comedian? >> i'd like to see mr. t elected president? >> do i have to leave now? can i recommend something for you? >> sure. >> punctuation. >> i'll start using periods, commas, semicolons. what we've learned today no one can do chris matthews better than chris himself. there's a lot more to come. up next, steve kornacki at the board with a look at "hardball"

by the numbers and remember when chris matthews was challenged to a duel. that's coming up, too. >> chris, congratulations on 20 great years of informing your audience and i look forward to another 20. >> i am so impressed with your spirit, your determination to get to the truth, your passion and energy for the field of journalism and you really know how to laugh. >> keep up the great work, especially in this time for our nation. your show, your journalism, your willingness, your guts for what this country needs.

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a republican senator broke ranks and spoke for the democrats, would you respect him? >> yes. >> why. >> of course i would. i've seen that happen from time to time.

look -- >> what if jim jeffords switched party -- >> if you're going to ask a question. >> it's a tough question. it takes a few words. >> get out of my face. if you're going to ask me a question, step back and let me ask it. i wish -- i wish we -- i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. that would be pretty good. >> i'll tell ya, all these years later i still don't know what the hell that was about. >> welcome back to "hard dball." >> let's head over to steve kornacki to break down the numbers on 20 years of "hardball." steve? >> 20 years of "hardball." they remember the chris matthews television phenomenon goes back to this one. there was "politics with chris matthews." and then politics with chris

matthews on cnbc then "hardball" on cnbc and now on msnbc. speaking of counting. what are some of the milestones? what are some of the big numbers? 6 presidents of the united states. 6 commanders in chief have appeared on "hardball" with chris matthews. you had carter, gerald ford, every current president starting with bill clinton in the late '90s, george w. bush, barack obama and yes, donald trump. donald trump has appeared a couple of times on "hardball" with chris matthews. eight presidential nominees. eight candidates for president have appeared on "hardball." john kerry, john mccain. we tried to start tallying these. candidates for president. democrats, republicans, running in their presidential primaries in 2000, 2004, all of the

elections since this show came to msnbc. this year, largest democratic field ever. that tally has certainly grown. if you're running for president, you're going to be on "hardball" with chris matthews. 26 times chris has been impersonated by daryl hannah. i was covering the 2004 presidential primary in new hampshire. sat before the primary, tv has snl on. darrell hammond comes out to do chris matthews. the door opens in the bar, chris matthews walks in. the place went crazy. memorable moment then. darrell hammond came on "ha "hardball." 13 ha's in one segment. the duel, 2004 convention, zel

miller came on and challenged chris. how about 2.8. this happened where chris was it was 2.8 miles from the site of the burr hamilton duel. that almost turned into a duel but it didn't. 20 years of "hardball" here on msnbc. congratulations. back to you, joe and mika. >> that's nice, steve. i've got to tell you, you ask me all the time why i love "hardball" why are you obsessed with it because i freak out at 6:58 p.m. >> i love it because he loves it. >> not only that, six presidents, countless presidential candidates, 26 times impersonated on snl. those are the cute numbers. chris matthews, we have marked our time. certainly politics in this century and even the end of last

century was defined by chris matthews and this show. >> absolutely. >> there's so much noise out there. there's so much chatter out there. this show still matters like it always has. >> yeah. >> chris, we just want to thank you for letting us be a part of this to just thank you for all you've done, not only for us and this network but more importantly for the conversation in the country. >> i've got to congratulate you guys in return. you created something in the morning that nobody else ever did. i always like to say when president trump is sitting in his bubble bath watching fox and friends you guys are putting on a good news show. it's a hell of a good thing. >> thank you, chris. >> we share your love for politics. when "hardball" returns, she's the queen of "hardball."

>> secretary baker, it's time for your video tribute to chris matthews. >> are you kidding me? >> he has gone to breakfast, lunch and dinner off of his relationship with tip o'neill. he can't get a story straight. >> bill, just look into the camera and say a few nice words about him anyway. >> are we rolling? >> yes, we are. >> my friends, chris matthews is forthright, he tells truth to power and he works his tail off to get to the bottom of a story. i hope he gets another 20 years on "hardball" because chris is a consummate news man who appreciates the importance of bipartisanship in governance. there. that ought to work.

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2020. so 1999 so steve kornacki went through the numbers. married almost 40 years. >> the radio tv correspondents dinner. >> we have a great picture of us in the first year when we were dating. we haven't changed that much, have we? >> no, i've stayed exactly the same. you've become more glamorous. >> and 1989 we did a fabulous first family safari to africa. >> we went all around these wild places in kenya that very few people go, and we found real animals. they weren't on a preserve or anything. >> and our kids are grown up now obviously but caroline at that point was only 10 years, thomas was in 7th grade and michael was a sophomore in high school.

>> back then we went through showers made out of river water and a big plastic bottle of water to throw over your head. >> and bill clinton was the president, very popular over in africa. what was he like to cover for you on "hardball"? >> a mixed bag like most politicians. i think he was as smart as a whip. he got in trouble that put a mark on his presidency, but i think he figured out a way to save the democratic party when it was trouble. he beat an incumbent president and was very respected. >> and succeeded by bush's son. what was that like to cover for you? >> when i hung out with him as a candidate, i liked him personally. >> destroyed because of the iraq war. >> i just thought that had nothing to do with 9/11.

and he got led into it and he led into a war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and it made us less secure. we would have been much better off with iran and iraq going after each other. >> did you ever imagine a presidency like this? >> there was a part of that that he's repressed which was interesting, the part that's sort of gatsby, the sort of loaner, there's a very american piece there but that's been smaugtered over smothered over. once he got into power he didn't

become a better person. he took shots at peoples physical disabilities, at their looks, their voices, their gender. this is something our parents taught us not to do. you cannot have a president -- the ends do not justify the means. >> this is what we talk about at night, every night. he comes home at 8:00, 8:30, we sit down at dinner and the conversation -- >> anyway, thank you, kathleen, the queen. up next my thoughts on 20 years of "hardball." >> chris, congratulations on your 20th anniversary. you've done a great job and i wish you the best. >> congratulations on 20 years of speaking truth to power and to the american people. here's to the next 20. n people here's to the next 20.

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20 years is a big deal and i didn't realize it until this week, a really happy celebration. i want to give my deepest thanks to the people who have written, e-mailed, tweeted and appeared in these wonderful on camera moments since monday. this is an important chair i have the honor to sit in each night. i promise to give it all the honor it deserves and thank those who give it to me, my bosses, my producers, my directors and crew, and really the "hardball" regulars out

there, you who get together with me with amazing faithfulness. we love this country. that's why we care, why we hope, and why we will through sickness and health, through sorrow and yes national disgrace, one day march forth to save it. and that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on a special edition of "all in." >> all you have to do is read the transcript. >> damning transcripts keep coming. tonight as we learn even more about the trump plot to extort ukraine. >> all you have to do is read the transcript. >> why the president is undeniably correct about reading the transcript. >> read the transcript. you see how perfect it was. >> then steve bannon testifies to the prosecution in the wild roger stone trial. emily