story behind that which i will have more on later in the show. we have a big show today including a nuts and bolts explainer on medicare for all and robert de niro will be here, yes, but first, we are just over two weeks away from one of the most beloved american food h holidays, thanksgiving, where problematic actual history meets delicious cuisine and many will be heading home to spend time are family and friends, eat a little too much and perhaps engage in a political debate with your cranky uncle rosco when he starts yelling, read the transcript. but fear now, we are going to help you get tru it all by tell ing you everything you need to understand about impeachment. so that you can easily explain to uncle rosco and auntie carol before you all settle in to yell at each other about football, thus far in the probe, you've been hearing about all of these different characters. giuliani associates, the three

amigos, ambassador this and that and all of the names are probably all jumbled together in your head, but here's a hint. do not worry about trying to explain the cast of characters or the way or the very overused term, quid pro quo. most people can't say it, spell it or understand it. though it has become a kind of catch phrase for the media and donald trump and his defenders. what we're talking about is not a latin phrase. the it's a lot simpler. bribery and extortion. make it simple like lawrence tribe who laid out the case perfectly. tweeting quote, bribery and extortion are two sides of the same impeachable coin. trump was extorting e ingextort. no aid unless you smear biden and two, soliciting a bribe from ukraine. if you help me win in 2020, i'll help you defend your country against russia. that's it. this is a case of presidential

level bribery and extortion. donald trump held up hundreds of millions of dollars in desperately needed, congressionally authorized aid to ukraine. what was made clear, ukraine needed to dig up dirt on joe biden if they wanted the dough and beyond the whistleblower and 100 hours of testimony, donald trump admitted to it and even released edited notes from his call with the ukrainian president which is not a transcript. that actually prove he did it. even uncle rosco and auntie carol ought to understand that. joining me now is glenn kershner and glenn, you're a former prosecutor. it's always great to talk to you. but i wonder if in your years of being a prosecutor, you ever had to defend actuallily admit to the crime an also release evidence of the crime. >> yeah, first of all, welcome

back, joy, we all missed you. >> thank you. >> second, you know, i've had plenty of defenders confess. i've had them confess to fbi agents, to homicide detectives, their families, friends, associates. rarely do i have them then go on for example the public courthouse steps and confess to everybody. usually, they try to hide the confession, secrete the confession. president trump seems to embrace and brag about his confession, which in a normal world, should make prosecuting him or impeaching him all the easier, but of course it's all about politics. not about criminal law or justice it seems. >> and you know, the reason i kind of you know and just being home sick i watched a lot of tv. a lot of netflix, but also a lot of news, there's this repetition of quid pro quo start ed to bug me p because even talking with

my family and friends, smart people who understand politics, who follow this stuff are like what is quid pro quo. why is everybody throwing around this phrase when am i right to say that it is a lot simpler to explain this as something people understand. extortion and bribery. >> it is. it's way easier. we should just take quid pro quo and throw it in the garbage. what this is not to do a criminal law 10 class b, this is both crimes of bribery and extortion and some people are like well doesn't it have top one or the other? it really doesn't. often when one person act, commits a crime, that person violates several statutes, breaks lefseveral lays, so if i punch somebody in the street and take their wall let, i've committed the crime of assault. committed the crime of theft of the wallet and robbery. taking somebody, taking somebody's property from their immediate possession by force or violence. three crimes. why do we have bribery and

extortion here in what the president did? well, one we habribery because s simply asking a government official to take an official act and either paying them to do so or offering them an incentive to do so. what trump did was he offered president zelensky an incentive by holding funds that he had every right to. it would p no different than if somebody intercepted my paycheck that i earned and said you don't get this until you do me a favor as a government official. one, that's bribery. why is it extortion? swrus getting something of value by threat or force. what did he do here? he said look, i know you want this aid that has rightfully been given to you by congress.

but and i know you want it to protect the lives of your people against russian aggression, but i need a favor though. i want false dirt on biden. joy, broken down to its simplest terms, which was a dirty deal that involved arms for political dirt, period and it's bribery and it's extortion. >> yeah, john bolton who was donald trump's national security adviser called it a drug deal. mick mulvaney, who is both donald trump's acting chief of staff, also the budget director. the thing, the reason this is kind of almost a dumb crime is that you have the same guy who's actually in charge of the budget actually tell them, tell the federal government, withhold the aid. aid that congress already approved. so if mulvaney steps in in his budget drirector role and says no, don't send the money over, they're defieing congress. there's the hobbs act, interf e interfering by congress with threats of violence. what would be the violence?

russia has invaded ukraine. they are in the midst of violence. do you think there's a hobbs act problem here and do you think mulvaney's got legal exposure? >> i to. hobbs act is is just a fancy term we put on extortion by government officials. so mulvaney does have a problem because picking up on your analogy, mulvaney is like the pay clerk or the hr person who's cutting the checks for people. the checks that they've already earned. because zelensky and ukraine already earned in a sense, the money that congress allocated to have them defend themselves. so this wasn't a gift. this wasn't something they were hoping for. and mulvaney does have exposure. he has exposure as a cocon tor this this deal. he is just as guilty as a coconspirator of the same bribery and extortion that president trump is guilty of. >> do you think and you know

this is just me guessing as a nonlawyer, when mulvaney said yeah, they had to do what we said in order for them to get the aid. is that him trying to protect himself from legal exposure by just admitting to it? >> i don't know if he is picking up the sort of trump party line which is that if i say these things in the open, people h view them as less incriminating. i think it was mulvaney trying to shift the narrative from oh, man, if they catch us doing this, if they out the quid pro quo, the bribery, extortion, then it's going to be really bad so i'm going to try to get in front of it and try to shift the narrative to you know what, it might look dirty, might feel r dirty, but politics is dirty and this is the kind of thing we do all the time. >> let me play you nicki hailey, former south carolina governor. she gave a defense, she's on the outside now looking in, but probably wants to have a

political future, maybe wants to r run for president herself one day. here she is defending donald trump on impeachment. >> do you think ultimately the president will be impeached and removed from office? >> no, on what? you're going to impeach a president for asking for a favor that didn't happen and giving money and it wasn't withheld? i don't know what you would impeach him on. and look, norah, it's like the death penalty for a public official. when you look at the transcript, there's nothing in that transcript that warrants the death penalty for the president. >> okay, i'm not a lawyer, but imme impeachment is like the indictment. the death penalty is when you get convicted. that's actually not true. but we know that the you don't need a crime to impeach a president. the constitution says hey crimes and misdemeanors, nos

necessarily crimes you could go to prison for. if he take her construction here, in your paycheck analogy, if the admin straistrator was g to withhold your paycheck unless you dug up dirt on their neighbor then it got found out and try tied to extort you, but u it got out u and they said go ahead and take your paycheck. did they still commit a crime. >> they did and we heard kellyanne conway recently stand in front of the camera and say well, there really was no crime or wrong doing here because ukraine ultimately got the money that congress allocated to them. now sure, after some ukrainian soldiers and citizens likely died as a result of this unlawful delay by the president, but b even more importantly, think b about it. they only released the aid after the whistleblower outed them, which they use in their own

defense, but joy, that's incriminating. it's an admission of guilt because if they had been withhold iing the aid for a lawl purpose, then they would have said hey, this whistleblower is is is out to lunch. we will continue the withhold the aid because it's the right lawful and just thing to do. no. they got caught, that's when they released the aid so kellyanne conway's claim that that is somehow exculpatory, it's incriminating. >> like releasing the phone call notes. he keeps saying read it. any way, hold on stay with me for a second because we have a little breaking news according to the "washington post," house republicans are planning to ask that hunter biden and the whistleblower testify in the impeachment problem. democrats are expected to reject it. what do you make of this idea that republicans think they could get hunter biden to come

and testify in something that he is not involved in? remember this idea that hunter biden was involved in some sort of fe nair yous ukraine scheme isn't true. so what would having him there, what would be the point? and the whistleblower is anonymous. so what is the point of this? >> the point is the distraction and side show, trying to do anything to deflect the attention away from the crimes that the president committed that are impeach bable. all this conjures up a notion of all of these republicans, senators and in particular, who are basically aiding and abetting in president trump's crimes because they're trying to bury them. they know that crimes against the united states have been committed and quickly, one sentence from this big blue book we've talked about before, this is the code that has all of our federal laws in the country and accessory after the fact is one sentence. here how id raets. it says whoever knowing that an

offense against the united states has been committed receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehensi apprehension, trial r or punishment is an ak resz reszryr the fact and every politics who stands up knowing that the president committed a crime against the united states and says the president did nothing wrong, they lie to the american people. that's really no different than just hiding the president in the basement of their house to try to keep law enforcement from rightfully getting their hands on the president. now you might say well, hyperbolic to say all these republicans who lie to the american people and say the president committed no crime. it's too much for us to get our arms around. too many crimes are being committed and it's a lot like littering or speeding. well, i would say you know, not that it's too much crime to get our arms around, it's too much crime not to get our arms around. this is something that we have

to wrestle to the ground. >> absolutely. calls swoo question the very role the president and congress and whether or not we're still going to be a democracy. always great to talk to you. thank you so much. appreciate you being here. >> thank you. i'll let you know that nbc news has confirmed that information about the republicans desire of to call hunter biden and the whistleblow whistleblower. coming up, i'll tell you how the biggest topic in american politics took over my life in a big way. that's next. n a big way. that's next. i must admit. i had a few good tricks to help hide my bladder leak pad. like the old "tunic tug". you know it, right? but i don't have to, with always discreet. i couldn't believe the difference. it's less bulky. and it really protects. watch this. the super absorbent core turns liquid and odor to gel, and locks it away. so i have nothing to hide. always discreet. for bladder leaks.

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this week, we got a nice look at hour health care system. i was out for the last couple of weekends in sick bay and a huge thanks to my a.m. joy team and jonathan capehart and yaz mean for keeping the star ship on course and yes, i was actually sick so tell auntie pearl to walk away from the conspiracy theorys. i didn't get bit by a radio active spider or locked in the 30 rock basement to keep me off twitter. in fact, apparently, i do too much. like so many of us, particularly women and even more so, women of color, and i ran down my immune system traveling and working too hard and not sleeping enough and despite having been vaccinated for a long, long time ago, came down with the yee old whooping

cough which was just the icing on the cake to a whole physical breakdown that started on this set is. a lot. but short version, blood clots in your brain do not mix. but i am fine now and feeling all better. thank you for all the well wi wishes. the a.m. joy readers family out there is the best in the r world. i did learn a few things by way over the past few weeks. past couple of weeks, one of which is that our health care system is amazing. by docktors are fantastic, but our system is really super dependent on insurance and where and how we get it in many ways determines what kind of care we can afford. for about half of americans, 49% of us, where we get our insurance is through our jobs r or a family members job. your job decides your insurance plan and either the insurer or company itself decides what test and treatments they're willing

to pay r for and if there's something theapprove, you pay y or skip the treatment or drug or test, not a good idea and how you pay for that insurance is premiums. they come out of your paycheck. you probably don't pay much attention to them and your company pays a portion that you don't even see and until you u need health care, you probably don't think too much about that insurance, but the reason that your premiums and copays are pretty reasonable is that the pool of customers, the pools of o customers who buy that insurance are really, really huge. 49% of americans works out to 156 million people. after 2017. 156 million people who get their insurance through work. and they're pooled in these big groups among the major insurance companies and each pool basically buys in bulk and gets decent price frs care. for 7% of american, about 20.5 million people, it's the opposite story. they buy their own insurance as

individuals or small companies. and so they pay both the premiums you see and the employer ones that where you don't see freelancers or people who own really small businesses. they don't have a big group to dpoe negotiate for them so they see all costs themselves. before obamacare, they could be sold cheapo insurance that looks good until you show up to the doctor doctors. with obama care, they could apply r for a subsidy to help ease the burden. the two other big pools of people are on mediciare and medicaid. 14% of american, about 43 million seniors are covered by medicare, the most popular form of insurance in america according to kaiser. 83% of americans see medicare favorably. about seven points hire than how private insurance polls. about 65 million people are covered by the other offshoot of the social security act of 1965, mediciaid, which covers mostly

lower income people. medicare is is not just pop r lar. it's really efficient. instead of a bunch of risk pools, medicare takes all 43 million seniors and puts them into one big giant group where just one enter thety pays the hospitals and doctors and bills. uncle sam. that's the literal division of single payer. one payer pays. medicaid is is like 50 single payers since it's paid for by the federal government and states and the states determine a lot about what it will cover. so whether you live in a drat or republic one might determine whether you get great benefits. now if you think about obama care, the biggest way that the affordable care act expanded the number of people who had a insurance was to put millions of americans on medicaid. during the debate, there was a proposal to allow people to buy into a federal insurance program like medicare, the public option. but thanks to conservatives like joe lieberman, that died.

the people you keep hearing hate obama care tend to be the individual bayers because their coverage is still expensive because the pool isn't as big as it could be since republicans fought the individual machindat. most importantly, healthier in order to get the cost down. but people who got medicaid, they tend to love obama care because before that, they were among the nearly 47 million people who had no insurance at all. a number of that's now down 27 million. and that's why obama care recipients tend to punish republican who is try to take it away. just ask matt bevin kentucky. here's a question. what if the pool in medicare was to grow from 43 million people 317 million people. basically the ultimate big group. i mean just like social security it's basically tax funded retirement funds. it's a tax funded retirement fund that covers all 317 million americans. what if there was a form of publicly funded medical insurance that did the same?

what would happen? when we come back, i'll discuss that question, which is brand named medicare for all with an actual expert. did you know that feeling sluggish or weighed down could be signs that your digestive system isn't working at its best? taking metamucil every day can help. metamucil supports your daily digestive health

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she has things in the plan that aren't realistic. which is a tucking point that is refused by the other party not by us. >> if anyone wants to defend keeping those high prices for insurance companies and high profits for drug companies and not making the top 1% pay a fair share in taxes and not making corporations pay a fair share in tax, then i think they're run ng the wrong presidential primary. do you know what they're fighting about? briefly, here are the facts. the moderates like bide p and klobuchar say protect obama care from republicans and keep improving. buttigieg has called adding a public option like a second

medicare that people can choose what they want to and mayor pete calls that medicare for all who want it. now there's option two. which is medicare for all, which is at the center of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren's campaigns. much hand wringing over how the country would pay for this which has led warren to release a detailed plan on how she wound fund it. so how will this affect your paycheck? let's take a look. okay. here's your paycheck. you're doing really well. on medicare for all, this line, show this line that shows your insurance people yum. we have to swipe it. there it is. that would actually go away. as rachel would say, poof. can't see it here, but your employer's contribution, poof. so maybe your boss will pay that money to you instead as more salary. one can hope. then this line, swiping again,

the one that shows your medicare and medicaid taxes, that stays the same under warren's plan. so would your federal income tax because warren's plan finds other ways to pay to put everyone on medicare. so that line also stays the same. why you hear her saying that your costs would go down. more health care, more paycheck. and a tax on bill theirs to pay for it all which may be why some people are not a fan. >> i've paid over 10 billion in taxes. paid more than anyone in taxes. but i -- you know, i'm glad to have, you know, if i'd had to pay 20 billion, it's fine. but you know when you say i should pay 100 billion, okay, i'm starting to do a little math about what i have left over. sorry. i'm just kidding. >> yoining me now is wendell potter, president of business of medicare for all. so that was my sort of awkward way of trying to explain. but did it get it basically

right, that essentially the line where you're paying for the insurance premiums would go away and the company's portion would also go away. so in effect, at least under warren's plap, you'd end up with more money. >> more money in your paycheck. it's been happening over time and one of the reasons people are noticing they're not getting big raises is that money our employers would give us in raises is going to insurance companies instead. one of the things people don't realize is insurance companies don't really control health care costs. they don't really want to because as health care costs go up, so do premiums. that means they get more money from us to convert to profit so they have an incentive not to control health care costs. the average premium for family now is $20,000 for a policy that you get through the workplace. i was looking just a few weeks ago at what it was in 1993 when the clintons were try iing to reform health care system. it was less than $500. now it's more than $20,500.

>> when you think abt because we don't see the majority to have premium, the company is paying it instead of giving us more paycheck. they're paying that behind the scenes. we just see that one line. i have a family plan with five people. it's pretty high, but most people, about 75%, 76% of people still like that system. like 83% of people like medicare. can you explain why medicare, my explanation in the previous blog is that because it has so many people in one pool, the sort of economies of scale make everything cheaper. >> right. one of the reasons why people are more happy on medicare is because they get better service for one thing and their costs are typically lower, on the prooif private side, the it's a different picture. you have the biggest -- like g sigona, they're fairly big, but don't anywhere cloels to the sifz the pool and they don't have the able ility to control health care costs. >> if you put all 317 you know and up million americans on in

one pool, and then they bought medicare and bought medical services that way, would the cost of american health care go down? >> it would and that's a very important point. kids talk about we need a universal coverage. which is an important goal and it was the ultimate goal ten years ago, but what congress did not do then was really an effective way to control health cares and it's been going up and up and up. ten years ago, we spent about $2.5 trillion. this year, it's over $3.5 trillion. so ha shows you the current system is not controlling costs. medicare does a better job. administrative costs are far, far lower, too. >> why are people then so afraid of the idea? single payer just heins what medicare is is. one payer. but people get freaked out. why? >> they get freaked out because of the fear mongering campaign that i used to be b a part of. in my old job, i used to be a

part of scaring people away from medicare for all or any reforms that might have a detrimental effect on industry profits. it's been a continuing process for a long time. i've often said that what we're seeing now is the mother of all propaganda campaigns to scare people and people are afraid to change generally. we grew up with the system. it's something we've been accustomed to and as you noted, a lot of what's going on isn't too transparent. >> if a medicare for all system were to pass, could you still buy private insurance like aflac kind? >> you could if it's r for something that's not already covered. they do that in the u.k., in canada. the point that or argument that health insurance companies is not true. >> my last question would be because people freaked out a bit about when warren released the cost hf ore plan. is the cost she put forward less than what we're paying now? >> it absolutely is. it would be less the moment it

takes place and over years would cost a lot less because it has price control mechanisms. >> it's really important to get the basics out so people understand what it is. it isn't this amor fis thing, it's what your grandparents have. it's medicare, but you'd have it, too. >> it would be febet r r for yo and it would cost less. >> my last question then because the affordable care act, i still have flash backs to the he lrk l it was to pass that bill. it seems in a lot of ways doing health care politically is kind of suicidal. >> it's hard to do. >> a, do you think something or put aside the politics of whether it could pass. could the same outcome be achieved by simply making improvements to the affordable care act like adding a medicare option? >> no, ten years ago, i was an advocate of public option because that was the best we could do but the fundamental structure is broke bn and flawe. it's collapsing. you can't build on that. it's time to put u that in the

ash heap of history. >> having a close up of the health care industry, if there was just one system from when you go to one hospital or the other, it would be a lot more efficient. thank you so much for taking the time. >> and tomorrow on a.m. joy, kamala harris will join the table and coming up next, i'll tell you who's afraid of elizabeth warren. that is next. who's afraid of elizabeth warren that is next so you only pay for what you need. nice. but, uh... what's up with your... partner? not again. limu that's your reflection. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ dealing with psoriatic arthritis pain was so frustrating. ♪ my skin... it was embarrassing. my joints... they hurt. the pain and swelling. the tenderness. the psoriasis. i had to find something that worked on all of this. i found cosentyx. now, watch me.

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and i just said to senator

warren on the way out, senator, congratulations, it was a nice talk, but remind you if my company hadn't been successful, we wouldn't be here today so enough with this stuff. >> former new york city mayor and actual mill who's network is a cool $52 billion filed paperwork this week sending up a potential white house bid. he previously ruled out a a campaign in march but something seemed to change since then. i wonder what that could be? >> you may have found billionaires on tv recently crying about that two cent wealth tax. aww. >> joining me now is phillip agnew and kareem, chief public affairs officer for moveon.org and author of move iing r forwa.

which we'll discuss later in the show. phillip, i really love the opportunity to talk with wendell potter on this because he's the expert and i don't know if you got a chance to hear the previous two segment, but i think one of the reasons that people get scared of medicare for all is that it sounds like a whole new government system when they forget that all u the grandparents are on medicare and are happy. do you think the candidates including yours, have done a good enough job of explaining what medicare for all actually is? >> i think we've done an excellent job of explaining what it is. every day people know what it is. it is chloer and health care that's been denied them for r generations. you know, joy, billionaires going to do what billionaires do. and for the 40 or so year, they've participated in widespread election interference in american politics. they've own it had the conversation. the discourse and many time, they've owned candidates and so now especially in the case of senator sanders who's building a movement of every day people

prepared to take on the billionaire class, now they're coming out with things that say this thing is is too confusing. i think it's clear we've made it very clear every day, when we talk about the issue and for people like bloomberg he's saying if i can't buy them, i'm going to join them. that's why he's entering. not out of confusion. he's clear that a campaign of every day people that is sweeping the nation is soon prepared to take on his class. >> and you know, what's really seemed to spark this interest in wall street in getting involved in the election in one way or another sh, you've got mark zuckerberg really sort of cozying up to buttigieg u campaign because it's a more moderate biden vibe that doesn't want to change the health care system, but elizabeth warren. warren has attracted the eye of soron of the rich folks on wall street including and the rich folks like michael bloomberg.

they seem pretty dead set against this idea and they seem to be martialing the money behind it and behind billionaire candidates seemingly because of her. >> yeah. so joy, first of all, welcome back. we have missed you. i'm so happy to see you on the telly. look, joy, there are about more than 320 million americans and about 600 billionaires in america. i think we should be focusing on the 320 million americans in the country and not worrying about what the 600 billionaires care or what their desires are and what they want. the bottom line is you have americans in this country who work multiple jobs just to get by. you were talk iing about health care system. you have a health care system that makes money off of people getting sick. you have youth, young people who can't, who are carrying the burden of student loans and you have people who have like $50,000 a year, make $50,000 a

year carrying all the burden. you think about warren's well tax, it basically what she's saying is people who have an asset of $50 million or more should pay their fair share. that's it. that's all. >> yeah. >> because people who have $50,000 can't. they have the burden. so pay your fair share. >> it's an argument that you know, most people i think if you ask them should lumping people's assets, sure. the millionaires, no, don't touch our money. keep my microsoft money. talk about bloomberg in for a second. his approval ratings look good. his overall approval rating is in 2013 when he left as mayor was 49% up, 40% down. doing better than donald trump among black new yorkers, it was 49, 39 despite, among african-americans lower, 39 versus 45 because of things like stop and frisk. he's liberal on guns and cloim

change, but on stop and frisk, not so liberal. i wonder what you make of the idea that he would be seen as somebody who can the even get the democratic nomination. >> well, i think it's laughable. as you mentioned, this is a mayor that provided over an administration that stop and frisked every black, la ttino a poor person they could. this is mayor that resided over a city from neighborhoods and culture to glass. who clear ed the park and stood up against occupy wall street and so really i think we welcome him to the race because when senator sanders is on t talking about militaries seeking to buy our political process, no one has to imagine what that person looks like because michael bloomberg will be stand right there. he is the antithesis of what this election is going to be about. this is a referendum on the 1% and he is a representative of it and welcome him to the race because he'll be very clearly a foil for a lot of the things

we're talking about. the issues of this country is is race, health care, jobs, college. a person who is crafted a city in his imnlg and approval ratings are not people's lives are made worse and were made worse by a billionaire leading that city. >> what's interesting is i think about between tom steyer and michael bloomberg with all of their money, how much good could they do? how many voters could they register with the money they're spending on a sort of, what could be seen as a vanity campaign. i am the answer. the answer is is me. what this country needs is me. i'm out there. you think about what they could do. how many senators, democratic senators could they, could they help flip the senate for the democrats? they're both leaning toward the democrats on big issues like climate change and guns. can you conceive of why they're spending all money to really stop one wok, to stop warren. because they are fixuated on her. >> seems like a vanity project.

na it doesn't make because it will be an uphill battle for bloomberg. it doesn't matter how much money you have. just because you have millions to spend on a campaign, hundreds of millions, doesn't mean it's a r smart strategy. and we have to remember, too, there was a poll that came out in iowa back in march. done by a r very good pollster. one of the best in iowa that said michael bloomberg was one of the most unpopular candidates in the field and also right now, folks, democratic base are really happy with the people they have. nobody is pining over a billionaire get iting into the white house. nobody wants that. no one is asking r for that. and also, i actually think he's going to be hurting the moderate lane if he jumps in. she's not going to take votes away from warren or bernie. that's not going to happen. so it seems more and more like a vanity project. seems also he wants to go after

one person. he might be looking at the biden campaign, too. that's been a question. we don't know because one of the reasons he didn't jump in back in march was because biden was in the race. >> right and phillip, that's a really important point because it feels like there's a sort of smelling of blood almost. that people see biden might not be as strong as they thought he would be so they're starting to see the rush of the moderates. if you combine the two most progressive candidates, they're doing better than one-on-one in some cases. maybe there's a fear that whoa, the progressive wing is taking over here. we need to get somebody in there who can shore up biden or replace him. >> yeah, well the rest of the country is beginning to recognize what every day people have known. if you're talking to them, that joe biden is not a strong candidate for president. and i want to be clear. when we're talking about attacking one person, we're talking about this is a campaign that says it's not about one person. it is about all of us and that is the true fear for a billionaire. a campaign that is building a

movement of over a million people who are donating, engaged, coming to events, engaged in the democratic process in a way they never have. that's the true fear of billionaire. not one person. it's a person who says when i go to the white house, all of us get there. >> phillip, welcome to the show, we'll have you back and careen, we'll see you in our next hour. coming up legendary film maker rob rheiner joins my panel to discuss damning testimony against trump and the great robert de niro will be here as well. more a.m. joy after the break. more a.m. joy after the break. yeah i feel free ♪ e, ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10

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must be hot out there, huh? not especially. -[ slurping continues ] -what you drinking? gasoline. right, but i mean, what's in the cup? gasoline. [ slurping ]

for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

. have you no sense of decency, sir? have you left no sense of decency? >> what did the president know and when did he know it. >> i began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency and if the cancer was not removed, the president himself would be killed by it. >> the august 6 pdb warned against possible attacks in this country. and i ask you whether you recall the title of that pdb. >> i believe the title was bin laden determined to attack inside the united states. >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." public televised hearings have a way of gripping the nation, but

it will be impossible to remember every single word of what can amount to hundreds of hours of broadcast. rather it is the moments, the famous few words that continue to capture our imagination and punctuate some of the most dramatic moments in american history. and it is time to bust out that popcorn because once again a public hearing is set to become must see tv. as house democrats go public with their impeachment inquiry into donald trump next week. and among the first to testify is someone who has been in the news a lot, ambassador bill taylor. the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine. like many of the actors in the trumpscandal, he was largely unknown until leaked texts showed a promise of a meeting to pressure ukraine to investigate a political rival, a aka extortion. taylor who pushed back texted,

quote, i think it is crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign. taylor is now in a position to offer the most damning case against trump as indicated by the transcript released this bike week of his closed door testimony. it foreshadows the explosive account that we can expect to hear wednesday. in his testimony taylor confirms the attempted dirt for aid shakedown testifying that trump directed officials to tie military aid to demands that ukraine open an investigation into the betturisma energy comp. he told congress that was my understanding, secure assistance money would not come until the president of ukraine permitted to pursue the investigation. dug questioning during questioning by adam schi

schiff, he was asked if quid pro quo means this for that. and ambassador taylor responded i'm aware. in four days the american public may finally hear the type of testimony that we've only seen in print. and if history is any indication, what we see and hear is going to change the course of american history once again. joining me now, timothy o'brien and also mya wiley, barbara mcquaid, rob reiner, and joyce vance. we have a super bowl duper panel. rob to you on this first. the reason that we started with thatduper panel. rob to you on this first. the reason that we started with that clip, people don't know who bill day already is. but people didn't know who ron dean was either. so you start out with the

unknown characters and then it will be something that they say that captures the entire thing. give democrats a little advice here on how to bring about those moments. because what we've seen has been itch if iffy. sometimes it has been strong and sometimes it has not been strong. how can they make this simple, straightforward and easy to understand but also bring it home so people understand what they are dealing with? >> well, i think a lot of that will rest on the questioners. i mean, we'll have career professional prosecutors who are going to do the questioning. and the way they point their questions will narrow the responses that they want so you can make it clear for the audience. but like you said, nobody knew john dean before he testified. nobody knows taylor or vindman or any of the people that will testify. but there is something different here than happened in the past.

and here we have had the president position admit to committing the crimes on national television. and that at this point has not moved the needle. so i think we got to be very careful about thinking that this public testimony is going to, you know, break the door down. because we -- at the time of watergate, we didn't have state-run television, fox, sinclair and so on. they are projecting a completely different narrative. and in order to get those 20 senators or whomever to move, they need to feel their constituents and the only way that they will feel them is if they start to change and the information they are getting is the wrong information. every one of the republicans knows that the president has engaged in bribery and extortion. they all know it. only difference is their

constituents are being fed a different narrative. and somehow we got to break through that and then all of this testimony which we know to be true and we've seen it will land and have impact. >> let me go to dean on this because you talked to a lot of fox news watchers on your show. but it seems that with something as great as impeachment hearing, even fox has to carry them, right? >> they will carry them. this could be must see tv. and once we get the netflix crime series about the trump series, this will be a big week in that whole thing. what can democrats do? it is all about framing. don't call it quid pro quo, call it extortion. don't debate is it a transcript or a summary. call it a confession. it was trump's confession. he admitted he wanted reciprocity. he talked about aid, can you do me a favor he though. a investigate the bidens and used bill barr to get that.

so you have him admitting it. one thing that is not talked about, this is about life and death. you had a hot war going on. l.a. times quantified 25 ukranians died from july to october. i can't sit here and say donald trump with holding aid in july caused one person to die. but donald trump knew withholding aid could risk the lives of ukranian. but to help his 2020 campaign, he did not care. but donald trump is cruelly selfish and streeit is just abo him. so frame it as extortion. answer questions about the confession and the fact that donald trump would put people's lives at jeopardy and the united states national security as vindman said at risk for his re-election campaign. let them defend that. >> and, a, absolutely donald trump didn't seem to care what happened to ukraine. he seemed to have a hostility

toward ukraine. so he doesn't have a lot of empathy. but how do you think that he will react to seeing people of sterling character like this ambassador who will be the first to go up, and smart to make him be the first guy, watching him say he did it? >> donald trump is a performance artist. he doesn't care about public policy or the public good. he cares about being center stage and he is profoundly aware the power of television and how people can be influenced by others in front of a screen who have credibility. and not only these people have credit abili credibility, they are military. trump prides himself on surrounding position as military advisors. and now those very same tepeopl are go before the american public and say that he was the ringleader of an extortion scheme the goals of which were

for smear political rival and do a favor i think ultimately to russia, which is to weaken ukraine. so the national security threat is in the white house. and that is a story i think that will come out of this testimony from people who are essentially defining themselves as nonpartisan actors, they care about public policy, they care about civil service, they spent years in this before trump came into the white house, before ballistic missile was in t obama was in the white house. and it got up ended by someone pursuing something that was entirely self-serving. >> let's bring in my sisters. i think this is the grand jury case, right? they are trying to find out if there is going to be an indictme indictment. but mya, chris hayes on his show last night made the point like if you go ban to iran contra, you didn't have ronald reagan on the phone with the ayatollah

khomeini saying, hey, i need a favor. if you had that, he would have been impeached. with trump, you have him on the phone. he keeps saying read me on the phone being guilty of the crime. >> of my perfect call. >> so is this an unusual kind of grand jury indictmenindictment? how would you advise the democrats to play it out? >> i agree with what has been said before. the two words that i think needs to get said over and over is personal gain. person am gain. personal gain. because whether it is bribery, whether it is exportion, abusive authority and all of the ways that this demonstrates abusive authority including selling our national security down the river for personal gain. so there are a couple of key dates in this narrative that make that point that show why that call is a confession.

>> one is may 23. we'll hear from the witnesses like george kent that say that the normal nonpartisan experts were pulled out on may 23, that was the same day that the department of defense certified to congress that ukraine had done sufficiently on curbing corruption that they deserve the military aid. that takes away any defense that this isn't personal gain. because part of why he is saying read the transcript is that i was all about corruption. no, you were all about person am gain because the department of defense on the same day that we now knowam gain because the department of defense on the same day that we now know from sondland is the day that he started getting the clear message that he had to deliver on these investigations, the same day that the department of defense said no, we're good here. >> and let me go to barbara on this. so the challenge here is that there are a lot of characters.

a lot of people to remember. you got giuliani, a whole bunch of people. but the case is fairly simple. it is donald trump said clear russia of what we all know they did in 2016. clear them and get biden in trouble. that is it. do that for me and then you can get the money that you are already supposed to have. is that clear -- i mean that is pretty clear, right? but there are ways that it can can get muddled if democrats just start throwing witnesses out and people are getting confused. >> and this is an important strategic point of keeping it civil as taken adean and mya ta about. messaging is important. when i started as a prosecutor, i wind to a training at the department of justice. and i was taught because of all of the resources in the grand jury process, the government doesn't often lose cases because the evidence is strong, the government loses cases because

the jury didn't understand the case. and that is because cases can be very complex and complicated. at the end of the day, they taught us simplify it, start your opening statement with a sentence this case is about blank. personal gain. extortion. sho choose a simple theme for people to understand. because if it gets very complicated, then the party that has the burden of proof will lose. because if the jury isn't satisfied that it was met, that means that they can't return a guilty verdict or in this case an impeachment article. so keep the messaging simple. >> as to democrats have this challenge of trying to make this really -- it is not a complicated story, just has a lot of characters. donald trump literally committed the offense with a burnlg nch o people on the phone.

not smart, but that is what he did. so everything corroborates everything else everything xw. d but republicans says that their strategy is to call hunter biden and somehow get him to testify and call the whistleblower who was not on the call. the one person they want to call that has a relation to this wasn't on the call. just was told by people who were on the call this is bad. they want to call that person. what do you make of that counterstrategy? >> the republican strategy here is what you do when you really can't confront the substance of the evidence against you. so them try to make it muddy and difficult to see the facts. and as rob points out, trump is a showman. he knows how to play these situations. he will distract and come up with clever buzz words.challenge for the democrats is what mya

and barb have talked about, focus on the fact that trump was not conducting foreign policy, was not trying to cure corruption in ukraine, but instead was out for his own personal gain for help with the plan that he perceived as being the strongest opponent that he would face in 2020. and as barb says, to tell that simply. so many people in the country are at the point where they have tuned out, they feel like the president does terrible things but he is never held accountable and they are at their breaking point. democrats have to bring those people back in, they will have the opportunity to do that by putting up their strongest witnesses this week, starting with ambassador taylor who makes the bribery and extortion absolutely clear. and then i suspect closing with colonel vindman who will tell the american people that based on his years of service, the president engaged in an abuse of all of our trust and put his own personal gain ahead of the country's national security. >> and rob, yyou know, the part about the bidens is what pops

the most for most people. but this is also about clearing russia. i'm rereading the second half of the mueller report and -- the first half is the one that is really damning on this point. this is also good frying to get russia a clean bill of health because that is weird. donald trump seems obsessed with doing that. >> speaker pelosi said it perfectly, all roads lead to russia. everything that is being looked at here has an anti an aunt san back to putin. we're talking about presenting the case. and we know that it is not a criminal trial. it is a political trial. so in order to be successful, you have to sway the audience

which is the american public. and i would suggest -- again, i go back to the fact that everybody knows that trump -- including all republicans, they know that trump has engaged in bribery and extortion. he himself said it. i look at like three or four people and mcconnell is on the fringe of that, but it is hannity, laura ingraham, tucker carlson and maybe kellyanne conway, there has to be the surprise person coming forward. when we heard john dean or butterfield during watergate, those were like whoa! we need that moment again to happen in order to swing those people who are supporting trump. so i don't know how that happens, but i think that we've got to find one person to come forward that is not -- you know that we all know to say, yes, this happened. because we all know what happened. and even those people know what happened. >> maybe it will be john bolton?

maybe whoever anonymous is. >> somebody. somebody needs to come forward to break the logjam here. because we are in the most lawless presidency in the history of america. >> bolton's attorney has said that bolton has information that hasn't been discussed yet in any of the testimony or looked at by the congress. so the other shoe will drop here. >> 2017, 2018, why wasn't trump concerned about corruption in 2017 or 2019? because biden wasn't running until 2019. >> and anonymous, we don't know who that is, but i have my own guesses. i won't share that. rob, looking very svelte. >> i had to shave the beard.

i'm actin i'm acting. >> you look fantastic. coming up, robert de niro will join us and i will ask him about the two great move swri dramas that is he starring in next. arring in next i wish i could shake your hand. granted. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

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>> when i was a little boy, everyone laughed at is laughing. >> my next guest lights up the screen in the movie joker. in my new book, i compared donald trump to the joker. he is determined to revel in causing chaos. another thing people compare dump to,rump to and that bringse to another movie called the irishman. >> under the contract, management can only fire a driver on very specific charges. any moving violations some. >> no. drink on the job? >> no. >> ever hit bianybody?

>> on the job? i don't think so. >> joining me now is robert de niro. i'm trying not to spaz out. so exciting to see you. i want to talk about the movie in a moment, but i have to ask you because of all of the events that are happening, the live televised hearings, you have been tough on donald trump. what do you think that impeachment could actually accomplish? do you think that the american people at this point having lived through three years almost of this guy are actually still s surprisabl surprisable? i think that he -- if we don't go through the impeachment inquiry, we're letting him get away with something. he can't get away. you just have to move forward and take our chances. i know tactically or strategically it gives him more ammunition later action but he has done something one and he has to pay for that.

he has to be put on notice, pay for it even if the republicans will not finally go through with impeaching him. everybody else has gone through the symbolic motions of it. he has to be held accountable. >> and we talk about the two films. in joker, you play the guy who is the man becoming the joker, the kind of pivotal moment where he embraces that negative identity. but he also is egged on by other people to do the day on the thick thi-- chaotic things that he is doing. and in the irishman, this idea of donald trump having a gangsterism around him, behaving like a gangster, those two things do seem to tie to him, right? because it is curious to me why

people follow him. >> i'm completely -- i have no idea why they follow him because he's not even a good gangster. he can't even keep his word about anything. i think in the real gangster world he wouldn't last long. he lasts long in his own little real estate world because he is the boss and he inherited all that money and he's a fool. but in the real world, he wouldn't last long. that is my feeling. >> it is interesting because people seem to be afraid of him, but it isn't clear to me why, he says because he will tweet at me. >> yeah, so what. what bothers me more is that someone will come along that is a lot worse than trump. he is just obtuse. he is dumb. but when you get somebody who comes along who is smart who knows how to work it and is

more -- can be sympathetic when they need to be sympathetic, he has none of that. he has not one spec of sympathy or or empathy for anything or anybody. so he is stupid. and in a way we're lucky in a certain way. because we can see it so clearly. but as i say, i'm worried a generation two or three from now, this is going to happen again. and he will be a bit of a teacher of what he did wrong, this other person will feel that they can do it 24 this way. >> and i want to ask you the question that i asked everybody for the book. what do you think the country looks like after trump. >> we have a lot of making up do, reparations do with countries. because if we don't have a president who really can show that we're growing up and we're repairing sincerely the damage that has been done, personally i

think somebody like buttigieg would be capable of doing that. he is junis young, but he has a qualifications. even bloomberg, he is a grown up, he's run this city for three terms. he is grown up and an executive, he hasn't done everything perfectly, but he is very good. he will get us out of this mess. because we are in one because we owe it to the rest of the world to do the right thing and we won't do it unless we can show them that we have leadership not only in the next four years after 2020, but four years after that and after that. >> has bloomberg reached out to you for your support? >> no, he hasn't. but i know him a little bit and we've touched on it. we just talk. because i wanted him at one point to run. i thought he should. i was disappointed that he finally didn't. but i think he sees right now that he has to jump in because

he has to jump in. >> are you concerned that the idea that yet another billionaire coming in and saying he will save the world? i mean that was trump's theme. >> but trump is not a bill i don't know thei-- billionaire. he is a fake president. he is a classic -- why not what you call it. everything that he says negative about other things or other people is what he is saying about himself. so he is fake. he is a loser. he is a genuine loser. and to get somebody who is real like bloomberg who is worth i think over $50 billion or maybe a lot more, this guy says he is worth 3 something billion, he is just a total hustler. >> and i think one f the things that angers him the most is hollywood. he craves to be a part of your world, the world of the people that are actors or athletes. like he wants to be a part of your world and rejection from

people like you i think bugs him the most. >> how could you not want -- when i was in new york before he was doing all this, i didn't want anything to do with him. he wants to take a picture? i wanted nothing to do with him. he was a fool. everybody knew that. but now -- he'd call up the tabloids and say he is the agent for -- he'd call magazine. people bought it. >> and what do you think of giuliani? >> i think he lost his mind. what a shame. because he had something going and then he just prostituted himself to work with trump. how could he do that? he used to prosecute people with the rico act and so on and now part of a criminal family. he is the tom hagan. >> an amazing turn for him. let me talk about this movie.

so the irishman, i was reading about it, one thing that i think is fascinating, i didn't realize that, you yourself, am l pacino and scorsese had not worked together in this way before in. >> no, marty and i talked about al playing hoffa and we thought that would be a great idea. and joe pesci and so on. >> and even joe pesci coming back, that is pretty exciting. >> well, it was the ideal situation that i felt, we felt, that we could get it. me, joe, al, marty. yeah. >> and people have been obsessing over this is it unaging or deaging that people are talking about? where they took you back in time. >> i guess you call it deaging. marty sort of i think he made up

the phrayouth-fication. >> can i get that? that is pretty cool. so tell us about the story. >> it is about -- what happened, just a little back story, we had been working on another project for many years. we wanted to get something going and finally we came up with something about an aging retired hitman from the west coast. and so marty was showing me old films looking for the style that he wanted to do it in. and i said i have to read this book called i heard you paint houses. and it is about a hitman. it will be good for research. and when i read it, i said marty, yyou got to read this because i think this is probably more like what we would want to do. >> the lives of these characters even touch on the kennedy assassination, providing the guns that were used. it sort of expands beyond just

the sort of unique story that you are telling. >> yeah, and it has had a lot of characters like hoffa, even joe gallo and the kennedys, historical sides to it, but not a small but a person al sort of story about a guy who is loyal to both and very powerful and the dilemma that he is in. but said in a real way. i know some people have said that that is not really true, that is not how it happened. but as marty said, it is a story that we tell in our way and it might not be accurate, though i personally think that there is a good chance that it would be accurate. and if we find out later that it was somebody be else and it happened another way, that is great. >> do another film. >> possibly. but it is okay. i'd like to find out what really happened if this isn't the way. >> i can't wait to see it.

it is open here in new york? >> and yeah, this is a first. it plays eight times a week the way a play would play. so it is not anymore. but it will be in other movie theaters around the country. >> and then on netflix. >> yes. >> all right. robert today ndinero, so cool t to you. >> and also go see joker. it is so good. >> and also go see joker it is so good. - when you're volunteering, you never hear "it's not my job." that's because right where you live, there's a need for your time and skills and effort and talent. please consider volunteering and feeling that feeling that you helped someone today. there's a company that's talked than me: jd power.people 448,134 to be exact.

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republican s continue to hag everything on ambassador volker. hold on, congressman meadows, can we talk -- he is walking by. but republicans are really struggling to defend -- okay, great. >> we're not struggling on anything. the republicans are not struggling on anything. >> okay. well, if republicans are not struggling on anything, they have a funny way of showing it. they can't seem to find a single narrative that sticks on their

na narrative keeps evolving. first mulvaney fumbled. >> you described a quid pro quo. >> we do that all the time with foreign policy. >> that blew up in their face. they tried to argue that since the quid didn quid pro quo didn't work, it is no big deal. glt aid is there and the investigations didn't happen about so if there was a quid pro quo, it certainly wasn't a very effective one. >> tried to rob the bank but it was closed. and then trump's golfing buddy senator lindsey graham who is so upset about the impeachment process he can't bear to read the transcripts of the closed door hearings. which is pretty much his job as a senator. >> i'm not going to read these transcripts. the whole process is a joke. i find the whom process to le pa sham. >> joining me now is david jolly, former republican

congressman no longer with the party. i don't mean to laugh, but really? i'm so mad about the process i refuse to read the evidence that i'm going to have to review as a juror? what is happening. >> it is one more shameful moment from a shameless senator. but consistent with all the other arguments, no republican argument will touch the fact that the president confessed to bribing and extorting a foreign nation state for purposes of benefiting himself politically. and i think that is what we will see throughout the public hearings. the question is not will there be anything that changes the opinion of republican members of congress, but will there be anything that shifts public opinion that it forces the republican members to follow them. to following the vo follow the voters. right now we have no reason to expect leadership from republican, but we can expect them to follow. if t

right now the political strategy is this, don't let the base erode. that is it. because if they let the base erode, they will lose in 2020. >> and to that very point, i got a peek at the rnc talking points that go out every week for their people who go out on television. and the talks points for this week we're authorized by diamond and silk. true sorry. diamond and silk are out there, this is all just a witch hunt. like that is the strategy. it is true. and i don't understand. and it is going after the whistleblower, it is outing the whistleblower who was not on the call. the whistleblower was not on the call. they have been corroborated, that is not necessary. but that seems to be the strategy. >> if you and i are talking about diamond and silk, i suggest we bring de niro back. because your viewers would rather hear from him than

diamond and be silk. look, at the end of the day, the sad part here as we laugh about it is that in their fealty to a weak and angry president, these republicans will be turning their back on their consitituens and the nation and leaving the constitution more shredded. and what angers people and me is these republicans will sit in the pews of their churches tomorrow professing a conviction to right and wrong, but they will turn left and right to their fellow parishioners and say it doesn't an apply to people on their own team. because at the end of the day what the president did was wrong. and none of the arguments approach the dispositive moment when he asked for something against his political opponent. the latest argument that perhaps all of this stopped he at the

mulvaney/giuliani level, that the president was not involved, yes, because he executed the bribery and extortion on that phone call. you can't get away from it. and so republicans will lose the impeachment vote in the house. the question is, are there enough senators to stand up for the country when they are faced with whether or not to convict. >> it is thuggish politics and we'll see if republicans want to withdrawn themselves around that. david jolly, thank you so much. great to talk to you. coming up, i will tell you about the biggest losers of tuesday's elections. tuesday's elections. st-recommend memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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america is in crisis. >> mind me tbehind me the scene another mass shooting. >> claimed at least 22 lives 37. >> but when they had a chance to act, virginia republicans ran away. every member is up for re-election. virginia support common sense gun reform. resuppo we deserve legislatures that do too. >> that was part of a massive push in virginia which resulted in gun control groups outspending the nri ichlinra 8:. and that is credited for helping

democrats gainful control for the first time in more than two decades. data shows the nra spent a little more than $350,000. the giffords pac, $300,000. and the gun safety action fund spent a whooping $2.5 million. joining me now, shannon watts. congratulations, a huge win in virginia. and i think that it is important because as somebody who lives in new york, virginia is like the supply chain for a lot of the guns that wind up in cities like this one. >> that's right. this was important for three reasons. first of all, we beat the nra in their own backyard. second, virginia is really the source of so many crime guns in our country's iron pipeline which is essentially the i 9 corridor. and the third reason, this will point 2020 candidates in the right direction. any candidate who takes their cues from the gun lobby was sent a strong message and now we will

take the weaknesses and turn those into wins in 2020. >> and if kentucky sint the message very clearly, don't come for obamacare, people like having health careent the message very clearly, don't come for obamacare, people like having health care, that could make you unpopular. in virginia, the message was clear. americans want common sense gun reform. but you showed that it is just a myth that you can't win running openly on reform. >> post election polling showed this was the most important issue, the issue of gun safety, to the swing voters. and also by a 2:1 margin, voters in the swing districts voted for candidates who made gun sense a priority in their campaigns. so this is a winning issue, we show that definitively in the election. and now we will take those wins and replicate them in the 2020 election up and down the ballot

in state and federal races. >> and when beto o'rourke cr dropped out, people said that speaking about gun reform is bad. but now michael bloomberg talking about gun reform and now it is jumping in to the race. are we past this point where people can pretend that saying you want to reform the system that lets anybody who wants one get an ar-15, are we past that argument about whether that is a bad thing to do? >> yes, it used to be a third rail issue. and now it is getting voters out to the polls. we show that had in 2018, our organization outspent and outmaneuvered the gun lobby. we flipped seven state legislatures to be gun sensitive majorities. we elected over 1,000 gun essential differensense

difference. and with this huge win in virginia, we know that we will probably pass stronger laws in january. so we will take the momentum and show advocacandidates that the toxic and hurts candidates. that is a watershed moment. we are seeing every democratic candidate compete to see who can be the best on this issue. so i'm confident that we will elect a gun sense president and flip state legislatures to be gun sense majorities again. >> what other states are on your radar? >> a lot of states. we're still planning for 2020. don't forget that january is the beginning of state legislative sessions. so we'll be showing up to pass good laws and sftop bad laws. but like in colorado, this issue will be pivotal. and i would ask everyone who is listening, if you want to get involved, you can join moms demand action. we're mothers and others. we're the largest gun violence

prevention organization in this country and we will be at the forefront of all the upcoming elections. >> congratulations. you guys did a huge job there in virginia. and the e.r.a. may be a beneficiary, could be ratified thanks to you and a lot of other great people. thank you so much. coming up, we will tell you the story that working class american heroin, that is next. s american heroin, that is next. ♪ ♪ and my lack of impulse control,, ♪ is about to become your problem. ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier. hey! my focus is on the road, and that's saving me cash with drivewise. who's the dummy now? whoof! whoof! so get allstate where good drivers save 40%

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our good friend is not just one of our favorite guests, but also the author of moving forward, a story of hope, hard work and the promise of america which tells the story of her humble beginnings and her professional rise from local politics to the obama white house. and back with me to discuss her new book -- book launch, book launch! this is the book. the picture super cute. very important. so karine, conditi congratulati. and i do have to ask a couple political questions because you are also our political guru.

let's start with we just spoke with the moms demand action leader shan thon abolead shannon. but let's talk about kentucky. . >> are you a colonel? >> yes, i forget about that! >> we're colonels. so,e' as two kentucky colonels, just you know, chopping it up, talking about politics, do you think as i do that the message sent to democrats writ large was, number one, obamacare's popular. defending it is popular, because obviously, andy beshear's father is the one that designed the connect version of obamacare and getting it taken away is what matt bevin was taken away for. >> you're exactly right. beshear was a great candidate

with a great message, and bevin also was incredibly unpopular, like you were alluding to what he was trying to do with obamacare in the state. and he also did something else, joy,th he basically became trumpian. he turned that race -- this is bevin, the republican in the race --in into -- he nationaliz it. he even had ads up about impeachment. he made it incredibly trumpian and put trumpism on the ballot. and so, i do think it was also a referendum on donald trump, who went into thena state, a state that donald trump won by 30 points in 2016, and it should send a loud message, not only for 2020 for republicans, but also for impeachment. i mean,t i think that this pla into how are republicans in the senate and someone r like mitch mcconnell, who is from kentucky, the senator from kentucky, how are they really going to start thinking about oncert the house passes impeachment, we're pretty much sure that's going toch

happen, and itur lands in the senate side. so that'se part of the conversation, too, that came out for me in kentucky. >> yeah. and one other question i've been wanting to ask you -- see, this is why i need y to be at work, because then i'm like, i'm just text you the questions anyway. but kamala harris, we'll have her on tomorrow. i'm really excited to talk to her. she to me has had two of the best political weeks in her campaign, other than her launch. what do you think the challenge is in terms of her not being able to rise h quicker in the polls or get more sort of overt support, particularly from black women? >> you b know, it's something tt we all talk about in our kind of -- in our little world all the time, like, what is happening? and i think it's ali bunch of things. i think in the obeginning, for sure, there was the name i.d. you had biden and bernie, who had big, huge name i.d.s. biden for being the number two to clearly obama, and he being known for some time. bernie, he ran in 2016, has basically been in the national sphere for the last four years. and when you have that, it's

hard to break in. and i think, too, we are in a different time. when you look at the polling and you seeng that people really wa to beat donald trump, i think you have voters out there who are v practical. they are thinking, this is the way we t want to beat -- we don want to take a chance. we don't want to be historic. i think that's part of b it. >> yeah. >> and so, they are looking at biden and thinking, this is how we beat donald trump. it.ink that's part of and there's a long other -- long list of othera things that i c go into, but i think that's kind of the top of the thinking for many voters. >> let's go into your book. i wantto to read just a little t of it. and this is on president obama, because a lot of people know you as the -- i say the woman behind president obama's -- "then the news hit us, listening to president obama's acceptance speech, which he delivered at almost exactly midnight, was a total out-of-body experience for me. i had never felt such a deep sense of accomplishment on a

personal level or sense of hope and unabashed joy." can you describe your reaction to the first black president being elect, but your parents. how didou they react to first meeting him, being in the white house? >> that's a good n question, because i actually talk about that in the book. my parents, as i mentioned, are from haiti, and they grew up in a dictatorship. so when i told them i was going to go intold politics, they wer horrified. they were like, we don't understand why you're doing that. why not become a doctor? like, we want a you to become a doctor. and so, they didn't understand what that looked like and what that would mean. and also, i was, when i worked on the national presidential campaign, i wasio flying all ov the country, sleeping on people's couches, living here for a week, living there for six months, whatever it was, and it wasn't until obama won and i told them, hey, i'm going to go into the white house, i'm going to go work for the first black president. that's when they were like, oh, this is wonderful! and they were really proud and incredibly happy that that's

what i was going to do. and i have this picture of when my mom first met president obama, and it's m kind of funny because she's so in love with barack obama that she is -- in the picture, w she's standing there with michelle obama and barack obama, and she is all over him. and michelle obama's on the other side because she's like, this is my guy! and it was really funny. i was a little embarrassed, but it was really funny. i mean, they were incredibly proud. i mean,cr you have to understan immigrant family. they came for like the elusive american dream. they still live check to check. and for their daughter to have ended up in the white house, and a lot of people have these types of immigrant stories, for their child to have succeededto in th way that we do in the way that i did, they were just so incredibly proud. so, even though they may not have the million dollars or the big house, i am the american dream. i actually fulfilled what it is that they had wanted for me when they camed to this country. >> and you tell that story

beautifully in "moving forward." this is the book. everyone should pick it up. you can get the e-book. you can get the book-book. get both. and you're going to be talking about it today. d.c. friends, i want everybody to know that you and valerie jarrett, a great discussion and a book signing with karine hosted by former obama administrator valerie jarrett. that's tonight at 6:00 at politics and prose, right? >> tiyes, tonight at 6:00, yeah. i'm very honored to have the amazing valerie jarrett there doing that ing discussion withe tonight. >> it's going to be great. you guys can gon out, if you'r in d.c., go and meet karine. you want to read this book, because one of the things you do is you tell peopleus what they n do. that's what people want to know. >> yeah, yeah. >> what can they do to better this country and be a part of it, not just to read about it or watch it on tv. so, please pick this book up. >> and thank youea so much, joy for all of your support. you cameal out for me and did a discussion with me earlier this week, and i really am truly appreciative of you. >> well, i love d you, so whater it takes. >> i love you, too. >> thank you so much. really appreciate you, girl. and more "a.m. joy" after the break. ate you, girl.

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which is why xfinity mobile is a different kind of wireless network that lets you design your own data. choose unlimited, shared data, or mix lines of each and switch any line, anytime. giving you more choice and control compared to other top wireless carriers. save up to $400 a year when you switch. plus, get 50% off when you buy any new lg phone. xfinity mobile. click, call or visit a store today. that is our show for today. "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. and kamala harris will be here. i'm very excited about it. >> ooh! >> alex witt, pick it up from here, my sister! >> can i just say, happy dance, joy's back! we're so happy to see you. we missed you, and you look fabulous. >> thank you. >> all right, my friend, i'll take it from here. >> have a great show. >> good day, everyone, from msnbc world headquarters in new