walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. call... for a free kohler® nightlight toilet seat with in-home quote or visit kohlerwalkinbath.com for more info. 20 years of "hardball." let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. on the exact day of "hardball's" 20th anniversary on msnbc. i'll be joined later in the show by a few special guests including one you've often heard me call the queen. we start with the news tonight. big news tonight a conspiracy so immense that it includes the president's chief of staff, his lawyer, his designated envoy and a hijacked state department. new transcripts released today show how the president and his

deputies used their power to subvert u.s. foreign policy in favor of a political agenda. the evidence against the president continues to mount. that effort is described in the testimonies of a current and former member of the president's national security council. lieutenant colonel alexander vindman and fiona hill. vindman told congress that in early july ambassador gordon sondland made clear that the u.s. relationship with ukraine was contingent, that's the word, on the political dirt trump was seeking. as a prerequisite to getting face time with trump at the white house, the ukrainians would have to deliver an investigation into the bidens. there was no ambiguity. vindman said. according to vindman and fiona hill, that condition came from trump's chief of staff mick mulvaney, the same official who froze military aid to ukraine on orders from the president. vindman said that by august it became evident that the freeze on military aid, quote, was an

added pressure point to obtain the deliverable from ukraine emphasizing that the message was clear and that the logic there seems inescapable. he also testified that having listened to trump's call with president zelensky, there was no doubt, his phrase, no doubt about the favor trump wanted. as vindman described it the power disparity between the president of the united states and the president of ukraine is vast. it was a demand from zelensky -- for zelensky to fulfill this particular prerequisite in order to get this meeting with the president. for more, i'm joined by betty woodruff swan and java dahli and steve schmidt, you're back. a former republican strategist. thank you all for joining us. i want to start with betsy, a top reporter on this story. boy, the layers and the layers and what grabbed me tonight was the breadth of it. it's like the line from the

woodward and bernstein book on watergate. all the president's men. so many people involved in this caper, the screw, the information and the dirt out of this little president from ukraine. >> the way this project is structured is also classic trump. remember during the mueller investigation, one issue that appeared was trump sending his subordinates or directing his subordinates to try to pressure mueller, to try to pressure sessions to reverse his recusal. trump insulated himself and surrounding himself with people directly under him and essentially do what we would likely view as dirty work. and we're seeing the exact same thing when it comes to the president's efforts to pressure ukraine to investigate the family of his political rival, rather than trump himself directly telling zelensky,

rather than trump telling zelensky, he keeps himself insulated, he covers for himself, and then dispatches his chief of staff as well as rudy giuliani, his personal lawyer, to essentially turn the screws. >> let me bring in steve on this. one of your political sense here. the number of people he attached to this, brought them in from different corners. everybody with the same mission, screw this information, the stand-up information, this press conference with a big video attached to it. the president of ukraine saying i'm studying, i'm investigating this bad guy, joe biden. it seemed to me that it was like a ricoh case, all kinds of teathers to get this done. >> for sure. that focus of u.s. policy was clearly to launch this investigation against joe biden. it's just a profound and i mean profound abuse of power. it's almost unfathomable. you have the president of the united states. the issue is military aid to ukraine which is fighting a hot war with russia on its eastern front.

the ukraine needs the american military assistance. congress has passed it. the president of the united states is taking actions that serve in the end the interests of the russian federation, serve the interests of vladimir putin and he's allowing that to happen subabort suborting our national security interests to his self interests to the politics of the moment trying to get a foreign head of state to interfere, intervene in an american presidential election with an investigation. and the idea that you could do that as the president of the united states to any u.s. citizen is terrifying and it's a serious breach of power that i think we've seen out of a white house in both of our lifetimes. it's extraordinary. >> it sure is. i'm able to stance the pleading from the ukraine investigation. allies of the president are now launching a desperate

bid to save the president by sacrificing three of trump's top deputies. that's according to the "washington post" which reports today republicans are sowing doubts about whether sondland, giuliani and mulvaney were actually representing the president or freelancing. they were rogue. in other words, the gop is effectively offering up the three to be fall guys. javid, is this credible? given your knowledge of the bureaucracy? the chief of staff was head of omb, the president's special envoy, our ambassador to the european union and the president's lawyer who's doing all kinds of work over there for him. the dirty work. the wet work. doing all of that work over there and it isn't coming from him. >> it seems implausible and one thing this ukraine investigation seemed to show is how much of a deviation has occurred from the traditional national security council and decision-making process to what may have happened with rudy giuliani and mick mulvaney and ambassador sondland.

you had two parallel streams. >> one controls all of the money, that's the head of omb. he said we've cutting off aid. and then there's the other guy saying, you know what you've got to do to get the money. you have to go to a nearest microphone and say i'm investigating joe biden. >> that seems to be such a deviation from the traditional process that was put in place. >> we're defining deviance downward. >> it exists for 70 years, and for a reason. >> the nsa where you worked was to coordinate all u.s. aspects of our foreign policy, correct? >> correct. >> you're discovering there's a hijacking going on. last month president trump referred to ambassador sondland as a really goodman and great american. since he changed his testimony and is now implicating trump in a quid pro quo or a bribery, the president isn't so sure about sondland. watch him now. >> jordan sondland said the beginning of december he presumed there was a quid pro quo.

then there was a telephone call to you on september the 9th. had he ever talked to you prior to that telephone call? >> let me just tell you, i hardly know the gentleman. >> he has done that before. i heard that before. i don't know the guy. anyway, of course, this is the first time the president has used the i hardly knew him defense to minimize his ties to people who may pose a threat to him. >> james comey, i hardly know the man. i'm not going to say, i want you to pledge allegiance. >> i never met him. >> i don't know putin. >> i don't know matt whitaker. he worked for jeff sessions. >> manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. >> that's why they have a ricoh charge. who loves to pull this, set it up like this? they have everybody doing what they want them to do but they can deny all the relationships. >> one thing we've also seen through trump's presidency is that when he tries to use this defense, it can backfire. in the case of michael cohen it's clear that part of the

reason he was so frustrated with the president and decided to flip was informed by the fact that trump seems to be essentially trying to disassociate himself from him. that said, sondland is still framing his testimony in a way that seems designed to sort of firm up this defense that trump is making. remember, even though he updated or clarified his testimony just a couple of days ago to say, actually, i did think there was a quid pro quo, despite that, he's still saying but technically no one ever told me. that's something that even though it might not have much credibility with the typical viewer will be really valuable to the congressional republicans and you can expect them to hammer in open testimony. >> let's talk about politics. you know it better than i. you've been at a higher level for a longer time. and i got to ask you this. does anybody doubt who is boss is? i mean, the boss is the boss. in this case, it is trump. you do what he wants you to do. everybody does what he wants to

-- you to do, right? >> that's the fall line. we don't pledge allegiance to an individual in this country. our system isn't built on a cult of personality. we're the oldest constitutional republic in the world, and when officers commissioned by the white house which mick mulvaney is, they swear an oath to preserve, protect, defend the constitution of the united states and that's what this is. is we have people who are working for the american people that are supposed to be public servants who have become obedient lap dogs to the leader. this is not healthy in a democracy, and it represents really a fundamental sickness in our system that we see playing out every day. in the end the politics of this, chris, what is it that the republican defenders and enablers on the hill are defending here? they're defending the right of a future democratic president to be able to abuse his or her power by inducing investigations of u.s. persons, of u.s. citizens for their political advantage. the abuse of power, the abuse of

the office and the willingness of people to subordinate what they know is right to this guy is an astounding moment in our national life. and it is something i think that ten years ago if you had woken up from a coma you wouldn't be able to comprehend it at any conceivable level. >> it reminds me of the days of the faroes where they would kill all of the slaves after they buried the farrow -- pharaohs so nobody knew how to get into the tomb. they killed them all. that's what they're doing to these people. thank you betsy, javid, steve schmidt is going to stick with us in the next segment. coming up, the shocking new book from the anonymous writer who says he's a senior trump administration official possibly still in the white house. in it the author of the book, anonymous, describes trump as dangerous, quote, like a 12-year-old in an air traffic control tower, pushing the

buttons of government in discriminately. plus, 20 years of playing "hardball" i'm going to look back at the guests we have. live guests to talk about the last 20 years, the last generation of "hardball." stick with us. >> i've been watching you for 20 years and i am still struck by your insights and the way you get politics and get into areas where nobody else would have thought of it. >> deeply moved by your journalistic clarity and more importantly by the truth you bring to all of us. >> hi, chris. i want to wish you a very happy 20th anniversary. i remember a little bit more than 20 years ago when you told a group of us that you were thinking of doing a tv show. i thought, what? and now here you are. i cannot believe it's been 20 years. >> congratulations on 20 years.

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welcome back to "hardball." a new book by anonymous. the author calling himself or herself anonymous, calling himself a senior official in the trump administration, perhaps in the white house itself, paints a disturbing picture of the president often describes as erratic, disinterested and deteriorating. excerpts of "a warning" obtained by the "rachel maddow show" the author writes about the challenges of briefing president trump. quote, if the aim was to educate this new commander in chief, they couldn't submit a 50-page report, expect him to read it and then discuss it adding, others discovered that if they walked into the oval office with a simple graphic that trump liked, it would more than do the trick. well, the washington post also acquired a copy of the book. one excerpt recounts the

president railing against federal court decisions including the 2017 travel ban. remember, against the muslims. the president asked the lawyer, can we just get rid of the judges? get rid of the expletive judges. there shouldn't be any at all really. another excerpt describes the tweets is like showing up at the nursing home at daybreak to find your elderly uncle running pantsless across the courtyard. nbc news hasn't seen the excerpts obtained by the post or able to confirm those contents. the author's account is anonymous. and uncorroborated. the whole book is anonymous. what do you make of these excerpts that leaked out about how you have to communicate with this guy? it seems like a very simple person that you have to go with a picture and talk to him like -- it's speaking another language. >> yeah. i'm not sure, chris, i

understand what the revelation is. three years on that every day he proves his unrelenting ignorance, his nastiness, his infidelity to the freedoms of the country. he's authoritarian by nature. the idea that he's unprepared, doesn't want to know anything or, worse, thinks he knows everything is just not news. we see it play out literally hour by hour, tweet by tweet. >> i can go with you intellectually but graphically. the president's son, donald trump jr., has written a book in build as a takedown of the left. in "triggered" he reminisces about a visit to arlington national cemetery writing, i rarely get emotional, if ever, yet as we drove past the rows of white grave markers, in the moment i had a deep sense of the presidency and the love of our country. i also thought about the attacks we

had already suffered as a family and all the sacrifices we'd have to make to help my father succeed voluntarily giving up a huge chunk of our business and all international deals to avoid the appearance we were profiting off the office. here's a kid who's inspired by grave markers of the lost and courageous that think about how their family had given up millions. >> it's the nation's most hallowed ground, arlington national cemetery. it's a sacred space, an incredible place where you see the great sacrifice by american patriots to preserve this experiment. that we've had going on for 200 plus years. you read don jr. saying that, it's like literally an episode from "veep." it's hard to believe that an actual human being, you know, with sen science wrote that

down. i don't know what to say about it. it's incredible. >> well, it's grow tess being, let's start with that, steve. >> it is grow tess being. >> you're back the last couple of weeks. what do you think? is trump deteriorating or is what we saw when we elected him, what we've got now, is it different? is it worse? >> i do think it's worse because as time goes on, i think the chances for something very bad to happen go up. and i think that right now we're in the consequences stage of the trump presidency. we have thousands of isis fighters that have escaped. we see bloodshed in syria caused by the rashness of his decision. we see devastation for family farmers because of the trade war that he's precipitated. and in the end it could be that the trump presidency, the consequence of it, are felt by all of us in a very, very bad way. but i think when you look at the totality of the presidency in this moment with a year to go heading into the election, we're

heading into the most consequential election since 1864. the country has to make a decision whether to repudiate or embrace trump in trumpism. to embrace trumpism for the second time fundamentally changes the nature of the american republic in a way that none of us would have envisioned ten years ago. >> i'm waiting for the democrats to nominate general mcclellin. thank you, steve schmidt. great to have you back in the saddle. my special guests joe scarborough and mika brzezinski escort me down memory lane. as we look back at 20 incredible years of "hardball." you're not going to want to miss this. stick around for the fun. hey, chris, congratulations on the 20th anniversary of "hardball." what an incredible milestone. >> i can't believe it's been 20 years. but a huge, enormous congratulations to you for an extraordinary run in a very, very tough business. >> hey, chris, congratulations. now let's play "hardball."

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20 years! >> let's play "hardball." ha! >> obama drama. >> cheney meany. >> to the moon and back. >> no one's ever late for an execution. >> don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree. >> to huckabee or not to be.

>> so is the newt scoop moot? >> high noon on gun control. >> hope for the pope. >> mutiny of the whacko birds. >> is the free world free from fear? >> could it be trump versus hillary next year? >> you say you want a revolution. >> size matters, day four. >> friends without benefits. >> moscow nights. >> to russia with love. >> mueller time. >> individual one. >> a trumped up emergency. >> cohen doubles down. >> bar fight. >> who's afraid of big, bad mueller? >> second term or prison term? >> the whistle-blower. versus the tweeter. >> let's play "hardball." >> let's play "hardball." >> i'm chris matthews, let's play "hardball." >> it gets no better than that. >> oh, my god. >> how great is that? >> second term or prison term. bar fight. i love that one. but size matters, i mean, let's just stop right there. >> we're going to stop there. chris, seriously that's the most important part of the day for mika. everything else revolves around 7:00 p.m. every night. >> that's true. >> when did you get that idea?

>> in the cold open, i guess a couple things. i know there's an 80-year-old kid once who said they loved this show because they loved the opening. they loved the let's play "hardball" like you created "morning joe" with mika. a lot of it is generic. one time i said let's play "hardball" and we kept saying it. a lot of this stuff, tell me something i don't know on the sunday show. a lot of it, you do it once, yeah, let's do that. you know? that's how it works. >> how did we do? >> you did good. you got the hoot pretty well, joe. >> you've got to say -- >> you've got to say a hiccup. you can't plan to do it. it just comes. you know? >> it's called "hardball" for a reason, mika. >> exactly. it is. over the past two decades chris has earned his reputation as one of the toughest interviewers on television. let's watch. >> tell me what chamberlin did wrong.

>> neville chamberlin was an appeaser, chris. >> what did he do? >> he was an appeaser. >> what did he do? >> his -- his policies, the things that neville chamberlin supported. >> tell me what he did. >> are you an innocent man? >> very much so and i've been wronged, chris. i never, ever intended to sell a senate seat for financial gain. that prosecutor mutilated the truth. i was conducting politics to get the most done for the people of illinois. >> yeah, but you -- that's the problem. >> and the truth is -- >> we're just going in a circle, governor. we've just gone in a circle. >> why? >> you said you did nothing wrong. two minutes ago you said you didn't know if it was wrong. why does your party want a national law against gay marriage? why aren't you talking about rape victims? why don't you stay out of people's lives if you want limited government? >> maybe it's you're so misguided, you think that i'm misguided. >> i read your party's platform. do you? i read the platform. it's not just rotten apples.

it's your point of view. >> was he legitimately like the the president of the united states? >> i wasn't in congress to determine that. >> can you repeat after me? >> president obama was elected president. >> legitimately. >> the people elected him, yes. >> legitimately. so he was a natural-born citizen? >> i didn't make that judgment when he was brought in. >> are you, tom delaney, with your political and professional and career history in the united states government questioning this man's bonafides. >> no, no. >> you want to see his paper. >> chris, the constitution of the united states specifically says -- >> i know it. but i'm never asked you for yours. >> a couple people said they believe president obama is a legitimately -- like the patriots. >> confirmed that and donald trump now confirms that. you know, hillary clinton campaigned -- >> when did he do that? when did he do that? >> he did that two years ago. >> when did he do that? >> two years ago, three years ago. >> >> he has now accepted that birtherism was nonsense? >> look, hillary clinton --

>> when did he do that? >> chris, hillary clinton's -- >> he did not do that yet. i am waiting for him to do it. >> ken cuccinelli could have said, virginia's women, did you know terry mccull la holds the position is for late-term abortion? >> how do you know that's a policy of terry mcauliffe? >> i don't. i would ask ken to make sure terry mccall live is asked -- >> public colleges and universities should be tuition fee. >> how do you pass it through the senate? >> wait a second. >> how do you get votes for any of this? >> we're going to pay for it -- through a tax on wall street. >> who's going to pass that tax? >> the american -- >> the senate's going to pass that? >> chris, you and i look at the world differently. you look at it inside the beltway. i'm not an inside the beltway. i am an outside the beltway guy. >> the people who vote on taxes are inside the beltway. >> who's your favorite foreign leader? >> who's my favorite? >> name anyone in the country. >> i guess i'm having an aleppo moment in the former president of mexico. >> i'm giving you the whole

world. >> i know. >> anybody in the world you like. anybody. pick any leader. >> the former president of mexico. >> which one? >> i'm having a brain -- >> name anybody. >> fox? >> oh, my god. >> unbelievable. >> chris. >> that was incredible. >> so your interviews are tough. your interviews are honest. you know your stuff and that's all part of it, but is the secret sauce your love for politics? what is it? >> well, in those cases i sort of scanned the intellectual map to figure what doesn't this guy know or this person know what they're talking about. like with trump on abortion rights. he didn't know what the pro-life position was. it wasn't punish the woman. he didn't know. i try to figure out what they don't know and ask them what they don't know. ask them what they don't want to talk about. i do push them. i get accused of badgering them. other shows generally can ask the question twice before people say you're badgering the witness. i usually do it for three and

then i still get attacked on social media. because the people who back these candidates don't want them to be hit with hard questions. they don't like hard questions like name a world leader. name a world leader if you're running for president of the united states. >> not a problem. >> unbelievable. i thought your back and forth with bernie was really revealing. how funny, a guy that's been in washington, d.c., for a quarter of a century is calling you a washington insider. that's funny. you know, whether it's donald trump saying mexico is going to pay for the wall or bernie saying that he's going to get 60 votes for free college or we have elizabeth warren -- it seems like every four years people make promises that just aren't realistic. how important is it that you've been there and, again, it's not what you're for or what you're against, it's what you know is possible. politics is the art of the possible and you learned that at

the shoulder of one of the greats in congressional history, tip o'neill. >> you know, joe, you know the whole thing. you served the house. you know how it works the the senate is the cooling dish. the cooling saucer. it takes 60 votes. for example, senator warren said she's going to get rid of the filibuster. go ahead and try because there's a lot of traditional democrats who believe in the institution and know the senate is distinct from the house and it's hard to get something through there. it does take 60 votes. you get rid of the filibuster rule, it's the house with less members. it's not so easy. it's easier said than done. every time i hear about free tuition or health care paid for by the zillion airs, if you can do that with 50 votes or 51 votes, you'll get rid of it with 50 or 51 votes the next election. you have a recession, another party comes in, they get rid of that stuff. you have to build your house on

a stronger foundation than 50 votes. you need 60 votes. >> has anything prepared you for the age we find ourselves in where you have a white house and, in fact, a large part of my former republican party who lives by, as kellyanne conway talked about, alternative reality, alternative facts, the truth as is known. the objective truth just doesn't matter. >> well, you know, back when i went to college before you guys we didn't have google, any of that social media. you couldn't look up anything. at midnight when you were arguing with somebody in the dorm the way to shut somebody up was five bucks. that was a lot of money. five bucks. boy, people shut up with that. that's the bet. you bet. we'll go check in the library tomorrow. it is one way to shut people up. you're not going to bet $5 unless you know you're right. not in those days. that could buy three or four meals. it tells you who's bluffing.

who says something just because it's coming out of their head. but you know what? you wouldn't put money behind it. put your money where your mouth is. that wasn't a bad expression in the old days. i think it worked. tough people. >> next up, chris, your producers scoured the "hardball" vault for some memorable memories with celebrities and politicians. let's take a look. >> great. >> let me ask you, ben, this is something i'm thrilled with. darrell hammond does me well. in fact, i tried to do him sometimes he's so damn good at me. i have heard through the grapevine, my producers, that you can do me. >> not as well as darrell hammond. >> all right, ben affleck. you're on the show. you're an actor, an idiot. tell us something. what are you here for? what have you got? i'm sitting with david guergen. what do you know? why am i talking to you? go ahead, answer. how was that? >> i think that was howard cosell. nice try. >> i heard your uncle got ahold of -- >> first of all, it's an honor to be on here. >> got ahold of robert deniro.

and insisted that the guy do philly right, the scents we were kidding about off air. all of the philly talk he insisted that deniro, one of the great actors of all time get it right. >> yeah. bob, you know, really is very -- >> do you like to call deniro bob? i like better calling him dad. >> he vowed to lower incarceration rates. "hardball," reverend, how are you going to do both? [ laughter ] >> i want to be president and you want to grow up to be chris matthews. >> you have a broadcaster's voice. do you know that? >> thanks. >> that's a good thing to have. >> i'll stick to my day job if they let me. >> maybe this is a trick question -- >> never would chris matthews ask a trick question, would you think? >> my problem is i have the

chris matthews syndrome. i want to break in, i want to talk too fast and i want to cram too much information and you'd be lousy at these debates, chris. >> let's talk about who you'd like to see win for professional reasons who would be the best setup material. for the next four to eight years? >> can i ask a question? >> yes, sir. >> can you slow it down a peg? >> no. no. what's the answer? >> i feel like i've got oatmeal in my head. >> let me ask you a question slower. who would you as a comedian most like to see elected president? >> as a comedian? >> i'd like to see mr. t elected president? >> do i have to leave now? >> you have to leave now. >> can i recommend something for you before i go? >> sure. >> punctuation. >> i'll start using periods, commas, semicolons. >> what we've learned today, no one can do chris matthews better than chris himself. there's a lot more to come. up next, steve kornacki at the board with a look at "hardball" by the numbers. remember when chris matthews was challenged to a duel?

that's coming up, too. >> chris, congratulations on 20 great years of informing your audience and i look forward to another 20. >> i am so impressed with your spirit, your determination to get to the truth, your passion and energy for the field of journalism and you really know how to laugh. >> keep up the great work, especially in this time for our nation. your show, your journalism, your willingness, your guts for what this country needs. s. (dad) i think it's here. (mom vo) especially at this age. (big sis) where are we going? (mom vo) it's a big, beautiful world out there. (little sis) whoa... (big sis) wow. see that? (mom vo) sometimes you just need a little help seeing it. (vo) the three-row subaru ascent. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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a republican senator broke ranks and spoke for the democrats, would you respect him? >> yes. >> why? >> of course i would. i've seen that happen from time to time. look -- >> what if jim jeffords switched parties -- >> if you're going to ask a question. >> it's a tough question.

it takes a few words. >> get out of my face. if you're going to ask me a question, step back and let me answer. >> senator -- >> i wish -- i wish we lived in the day where you could challenge a person to a duel. that would be pretty good. >> i'll tell ya, all these years later i still don't know what the hell that was about. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was the first and only time an msnbc host was challenged to a duel by a politician. that's never happened to you, right? >> not yet. >> let's head over to steve kornacki to break down the numbers on 20 years of "hardball." steve? >> thanks, joe and mica. >> 20 years of "hardball." on msnbc. of course the true die-hard fans remember the chris matthews television phenomenon goes back further than that. there was this one. there was "politics with chris matthews." and then politics with chris matthews on cnbc then "hardball" on cnbc and now "hardball with

chris matthews" on msnbc, 20 years and counting. speaking of counting. what are some of the milestones? what are some of the big numbers that stand out? how about this one? six presidents of the united states, six commanders in chief have appeared on "hardball" with chris matthews. you had carter, gerald ford, every current president starting with bill clinton in the late '90s, george w. bush, barack obama and yes, donald trump. donald trump has appeared a couple of times on "hardball" with chris matthews. that's six presidents. it's also eight presidential nominees, eight candidates for president from the major parties have appeared on "hardball." john kerry, john mccain. blasts from the past here. eight presidential nominees, then countless -- we tried to start tallying these, too many to count. candidates for president. democrats, republicans, running in their presidential primaries in 2000, 2004, all of the elections since this show came to msnbc. too many to count and of course

this year, largest democratic field ever. that number has certainly -- that tally has certainly grown. if you're running for president, you're going to be on "hardball" with chris matthews. how about this? chris himself impersonated on the gold standard of pop culture, "saturday night live" 26 times by darrell hannah. i was covering the 2004 presidential primary in new hampshire. saturday before the primary, big bar, everybody in the media is there, tv has "snl" on. darrell hammond comes out to do chris matthews. the door opens in the bar, chris matthews walks in. the place went crazy. a really memorable moment there back in 2004. darrell hammond came on "hardball" a few times and that set a record for the most "has" in one segment. the duel, 2004 national convention in new york city, zel

miller came on and challenged chris to a duel. i can give you one more number. how about 2.8. this happened where chris was it was 2.8 miles from the site of the burr hamilton duel. a couple hundred years later, 2.8 miles away, chris mutates, zel miller, it almost turned into a duel but it didn't. 20 years of "hardball" here on msnbc. congratulations to you, chris. back to you, joe and mika. >> that's nice, steve. i've got to tell you, you ask me all the time why i love "hardball" why are you obsessed with it because i freak out at 6:58 p.m. >> i love it because he loves it. >> not only that, six presidents, countless presidential candidates, 26 times intercede impercent nated on "snl." those are the cute numbers. chris matthews, we have marked our time. certainly politics in this century and even the end of last century was defined by chris matthews and this show.

>> absolutely. >> there's so much noise out there. there's so much chatter out there. this show still matters like it always has. >> yeah. >> chris, we just want to thank you for letting us be a part of this to just thank you for all you've done, not only for us and this network but more importantly for the conversation in the country. >> i've got to congratulate you guys in return. because you guys created something in the morning that nobody else's ever did. i always like to say when president trump is sitting in his bubble bath watching fox and friends you guys are putting on a real news show. it's a hell of a good thing. you created it. >> thank you, chris. >> we really share your love for politics. when "hardball" returns, another surprise guest will join us. hint, she's queen of "hardball." >> secretary baker, it's time for your video tribute to chris matthews. >> are you kidding me?

chris has gone to breakfast, lunch, and dinner for decades. off his relationship with tip o'neill. that loud mouth has no political sense, no professionalism, and he can't get the story straight. >> bill, just look into the camera and say a few nice words about him anyway. >> are we rolling? >> yes, we are. >> my friends, chris matthews is forthright, he tells truth to power and he works his tail off to get to the bottom of a story. i hope he gets another 20 years on "hardball" because chris is a consummate newsman who appreciates the importance of bipartisanship in governance. there. that ought to work. ♪ limu emu & doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu & doug

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thouwhich is breast cancer metastthat has spreadcer, to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients. patients taking ibrance can develop low white blood cell counts which may cause serious infections that can lead to death. ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs that can lead to death. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including trouble breathing, shortness of breath, cough, or chest pain. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills,

or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. be in your moment. ask your doctor about ibrance. person who knows me better than anyone else, my wife kathleen the queen. there you are, kathleen. and it's your segment. >> this has been your life. right? this is your life. isn't that a show that you grew up with? >> i've been here twice as long as this show. >> we will be celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary in 2020. so 1999 so steve kornacki went through the numbers. here are our numbers.

married almost 40 years. we met in 1978. >> yeah, at the white house -- no, at the radio tv correspond entz dinner. >> we have a great picture of us in the first year when we were dating. we haven't changed that much, have we? >> no, i've stayed exactly the same. you've become more glamorous. >> and 1999 when "hardball" started, here on msnbc. think about that, we did a fabulous first family safari to africa, in that summer before -- >> when was that? >> 1999. >> we went all around these wild places in kenya that very few people go, and we found real animals. they weren't on a preserve or anything. we found real ones. >> and our kids are grown up now obviously but caroline at that point was only 10 years, thomas was in 7th grade, and michael was a sophomore in high school. >> now it is a grown up family. back then we went to showers made out of river water

and a plastic bag of water to throw over your head, smelled of the river, remember? >> and bill clinton was the president, very popular over in africa. what was he like to cover for you on "hardball"? >> a mixed bag like most politicians. i think he was as smart as a whip. i think he got in trouble with money kpa and some other things that sort of put a mark on his presidency, but i think he figured out a way to save the democratic party when it was trouble. he brought it back. he beat an incumbent president who was very respected. >> right. >> that was a victory for him. >> and succeeded by bush's son. gorge w. bush. what was that like to cover for you? >> i thought george w. was okay as a permit. when i hung out with him as a candidate, i liked him personally. i was destroyed. i thought he handled 9/11 real well. >> destroyed because of the iraq war. >> i just thought that had nothing to do with 9/11. and he got led into it and he led into a war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives

and it made us less secure. and it left us and israel without a buffer between us and iran. and it made us less secure. we would have been much better off with iran and iraq going after each other. >> when you were falling into politics as a young kid, did you ever imagine a presidency like this? >> no, i don't want to take another shot at him, except to say there was a part of trump that he has repressed which was interesting, the part that sort of gatsby, the sort of -- the loner, the individual against the establishment a. bit like citizen cain, too. there is that very american piece there, but that's been smothered over. once he got into power he didn't become a better person. there is a lot of important stuff going on there. i think that's why people voted for him. once he got into power he didn't become a better person. he took shots at peoples physical disabilities, at their looks, their voices, their gender.

i mean this is all -- all that our parents, your parents and mine thought us not do. you cannot have a president -- the ends do not justify the means. >> this is what we talk about at night, every night. he comes home at 8:00, 8:30, we sit down at dinner and the conversation continues. >> until i find a old movie that i like and you can't figure out. anyway, thank you, kathleen, my queen. >> congratulations, sweetie. >> thanks, deer. >> anyway, thank you, kathleen, the queen. up next my thoughts on 20 years of "hardball." >> chris, congratulations on your 20th anniversary. you've done a great job and i wish you the best. >> congratulations on 20 years of speaking truth to power and to the american people. here's to the next 20. and the gastroenterologists who developed it. align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24/7. so, where you go, the pro goes. go with align, the pros in digestive health.

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serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. man 3 vo: ask your rheumatologist about humira. woman 4 vo: go to humira.com to see proof in action. 25 cent boneless wings at applebee's. ♪ born to be wild... born to be wild...♪ get 'em while they're hot. ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on

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20 years is a big deal and i didn't realize it until this week of really happy celebration. i want to give my deepest thanks to the people who have written, e-mailed, tweeted, and appeared in these wonderful on camera moments since monday. this is an important chair i have the honor to sit in each night. i promise to give it all the honor it deserves and thank those who give it to me, my bosses a. msnbc and nbc news, my producers starting with executive producer tina or banski, my directors and crew, and really, the "hardball" regulars out there, you who get together with me with amazing faithfulness. we love this country. that's why we care, why we hope,

and why we will through sickness and health, through sorrow and yes national disgrace, one day march forth to save it. and that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight on a special edition of "all in." >> all you have to do is read the transcript. >> damning transcripts keep coming. >> read the transcript. >> tonight, as we learn even more about the trump plot to extort ukraine. >> all you have to do is read the transcript. >> why the president is undeniably correct about reading the transcript. >> read the transcript. you see how perfect it was. then steve bannon testifies to the prosecution in the wild roger stone trial. >> i don't know nothing about that. >> emily bass loan inside a trump white house at war with congress. and steve kornacki