switch and save up to four hundred dollars a year on your wireless bill. and save even more when you bring your own phone and upgraded your network. that's simple, easy, awesome. click, call or visit a store today. all right. we are out of time for this hour of msnbc live. it's time now for "up" with david gura. ♪ >> this is "up". i'm david gura. the first public hearings this week in the impeachment inquiry. we know who the democrats have called to testify. this weekend, they have requested additional witnesses. that has led to a testy back and forth. the chairman criticizing the gop called for the whistle-blower to appear. and joe biden's son.

last week mick mulvaney did not show up for a closed door hearing. now he wants to join a lawsuit against his boss. the acting chief of staff wants to decide if he is obligated to answer questions on capitol hill. president trump teases he may release information on another phone call between him and his counterpart. she flipped off president trump, lost her job and got a set that was republican. her revenge run in virginia. a. scott boulden a criminal defense attorney and former cher of the association. and spokesperson for the house oversight committee. >> deny and convert. those are the tactics and his

president allies are relying on ahead of televised impeachment hearings. three will sit before cameras on capitol hill. two targeted by president trump. republicans are now calling for hunter biden to testify. the ranking member of the house intelligence committee devin nunes asked for the whistle-blower and biden toe testify. democrats ultimately will decide who will appear before the committee. in his latest layer, schiff is considering the request but warns the inquiry is not and will not serve as a vehicle to under take the same sham investigations into the bidens or 2016 that the president pressed ukraine to conduct. adam schiff set a narrow path for the investigation. the "washington post" summarizing. one, did the president request a foreign government conduct investigations that would benefit the person's political

interests. two, did he or his aids use power to pressure on ukraine. and did they conceal evidence that the president's actions were related to ukraine. it will be up to the house judiciary committee to draft articles of impeachment. already the pieces of that puzzle are coming together through testimony for at least one article of impeachment, that being abuse of power, building on and going on beyond what the whistle-blower alleged in that complaint. democrats are building on another case after a series of no-shows this week, it is becoming clear there is plenty of grist for an article obstruction. looking at this list from this letter that devin nunes wrote of who he would like to see testify, he is on the board with hunter biden, david hale, nellie

ohr. how likely is it they testify given the parameters that adam schiff subscribed? >> he will have to let a couple testify. the whole point is republicans are trying to say he's biased, thwarting the process, not giving president trump his due process. so i suspect there will be a couple. i would not be surprised if tim morison and kurt volker both testify. both have testified behind closed doors. they have already given depositions. adam schiff promised to release all the depositions. as for the whistle-blower, nellie ohr, that is not happening. that is outside the parameters he has laid for this inquiry. and i just don't see him going there. >> what does this tell you about the republican strategy here? we hear so often from

republicans these days. democrats need to move on from the muller investigation. that witch-hunt. et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. lo and behold when you hear nellie ohr, we are right back in the middle of that. >> the same playbook they used to discredit the mueller probe is exactly what they will do now for the impeachment. if democrats were conducting a fair and honest transparent investigation, they would allow our witnesses like nellie ohr to come up. what are they afraid that nellie ohr will say that will unravel the impeachment. when they ask for hunter biden to testify. what if he said, okay, we will let you do hunter biden, but we will get trump jr., rudy, e ivanka. >> give us the sense of historical import of this week.

come wednesday, the cameras turn on. it will be a crowded hearing room. we will hear from the current ambassador to ukraine. we will hear from members of the state department as well. friday we hear from marie yovanovit yovanovitch. >> i didn't think anything like this would happen while i was alive. so here we go. when we talk about the mueller report and these witnesses that could possibly -- that the republicans would like to call, this is what fiona hill was scared of. she said this was the rabbit hole that republicans could be taking us down. and i don't know if you guys read any of the documents that buzzfeed put forward this week. in rick gates 302 fbi interview summary, he says it was constantin qkilimnik who brough the idea. this came directly from manafort, russia, from people with ties to russian intelligence. so going back to fiona hill's

testimony, this is her worst nightmare. and the fact that these people, the republicans want these people to testify, the people who literally have nothing to do with what's going on right now in reality -- >> why would this be a bad week for her if these people were to testify, though. they are completely irrelevant. >> wasting the american people's times. it's just come on, guys. we want this to be a serious thing. >> the conspiracy they espouse on another network, if you will on a daily basis. it would be a rabbit hole. . >> we want this to be legitimate. >> it will be a legitimate impeachment hearing. we are an investigatory stance right now. this whole issue of due process and bias and what have you, if 47 members of these committees that could participate in the depositions behind closed doors and now they have released those

depositions and the deposition testimony has been devastating. and so what the republicans want to do is they want to distract, if you will. what difference does it make as to whether you believe it is bias or not or the process is biased. what difference does it make if hunter biden turned out to be a bad guy, if you will. none of that has anything to do with the three points that you raised in regard to this impeachment inquiry. it is simple. it's direct. and it makes sense. and i don't think schiff is going to let any of the conspiratorial nonsense in. >> he said that in his letter. the committee will not serve as vehicles for any member to carry out the same investigations as i read before. you pro filed adam schiff. you made your way through all 2500 pages of the transcripts we got the last week. what do they tell you about the way this is going to unfold, cheryl? you read them. you see how he controls the

depositions. dan golden used to be an msnbc legal analyst. now of this committee, conducting a lot of questioning of these witnesses. how will that translate to the public hearing this week? >> so you have to think of who adam schiff is, a former federal prosecutor. in many ways, he is the anti-trump. he is calm. he's measured. he's unflappable. and he is going to do everything he can to keep these hearings on a solemn, kind of even keel. but he's also going to keep tight control over these hearings. and he's not going to let republicans go astray with questioning that leads them, as you say, down the rabbit hole. what we will see from republicans is every attempt to goad adam schiff, something that looks like a partisan scircus, that does not look like a solemn

affair. the big question will be can we keep a calm hold on things, can he look to the public and suggest that this is a serious wavy matter about the future of our country and the constitution. >> cheryl, appreciate the time at the beginning of what i know is another busy week for you. up ahead on "up", she lost her job and won a local election. juli briskman for revenge runs. the active chief of staff tries to sue his own boss. mick mulvaney versus donald trump, next. mick mulvaney versus donald trump, next. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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they said the corruption related to the dnc server, absolutely. no question about it. that's it. that's why we held up the money. >> just to be clear, that's what you described as quid pro quo. >> we do that all the time in policy. get over it. >>. >> commenting on quid pro quo, incredible. >> i think he just blacked out in that moment. he must have just gone somewhere else purchase i'm going to tell the truth. >> his effort to walk it back made absolutely no sense. >> he tried. he tried to walk it back. we get closer to public hearings, and drama is playing out in parallel in the courts.

mull vane ya wants to john kupperman's lawsuit. he would answer questions from lawmakers if courts were to compel him to. if he is allowed to join that suit, he would be going against his own boss. whipple, who wrote a book about it, said he could not think of any precedent for a chief of staff going to court given that mulvaney has been willing to do almost anything for trump, he told the "times". it is remarkable he is asking for a second opinion. >> john bolton is in for a $2 million book deal. therefore he has a lot to say. turn to the lawyer first. what's going on here? this is unorthodox. >> yeah. >> strikes me too. covered the subpoena. there wasn't one for john tpwopbl. w bolton. why do this?

>> let's be clear. mick mulvaney is in the violation of the law already. he was subpoenaed. he didn't show up. he made that decision. you have two co-equal branches of the government. if kupperman's case is dismissed, he will have to file on his own. he is doing this for political and legal cover. i don't think he's going to get that relief because he's decided already not to show up with a subpoena. that's a really bad fact for him when he goes for guidance. declaratory relief. judge, if i was advice whether this contract is enforceable. he is taking a position already. you show up. you invoke the executive privilege no matter how broad or narrow you want to. you don't answer the questions. then the democrats would file suit to compel him to answer. that didn't happen here. that's a real challenge for him to get relief.

>> strange bedfellows here. all the while he is trying to align himself with john bolton. as we learned from the depositions through pages of testimony, that's a huge divide therein. the fights that were taking place between john bolton -- >> if i may, bolton has never been subpoenaed. so he was invited to testify. i'm not sure what that was about. they may have had a deal. . >> he is waiting on the kupperman. >> he is waiting on the kupperman piece. the pressure is on mick mulvaney and the other four witnesses that haven't showed up. the bottom line is this, they either pursue them in court or roll it into obstruction charge and keep it moving. that is the only way you will get to impeachment or conclude the hearings, on issues of obstruction. >> what does it say about the relationship between bolton and mulvaney. >> it is about to be every man for himself, honey. it is the end of good fellas.

the helicopter is above him. he's driving. and everybody needs to figure out where to hide their stuff. i think that's what's happening. i know that john bolton was speaking at a wall street conference this week. and the impression from everybody at that conference was that he does not like the president. i don't know if he doesn't like the president for the same reasons i like the president. but it doesn't matter. john bolton has an axe to grind. let's see if he gets to grind it in public. >> his lawyer says he has an axe to grind. >> what this does about the white house's attitude to all of this. they are clearly not objecting to him going through with this. what does that tell you about the disarray in the white house. >> the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. the white house was caught off guard that mulvaney even did this tells you they're not communicating. every time something happens in

this inquiry, they change your strategy, if you want to call it a strategy. they keep changing their answers. we're going to go after the whistle-blower, adam schiff, after the people who testified, the persgoalpost keeps getting moved. you hear that republicans on the hill are saying maybe we will see the call was bad but nothing illegal was happening. >> the crazy thing is i remember mick mulvaney who was all for congressional oversight. mike pompeo who actually pushed to have more power to do private depositions. i remember working at the oversight committee when they did benghazi and they had hundreds of depositions. it is crazy to watch them away from that. >> let me ask you about precedent. as this case is being decided, as don mcgahn case is being

decided, are these going forward? . >> they will be informative because of precedent. but the arguments as to why this broad executive privilege exists is -- it borders on the nonsensical. you see what's happening with the tax cases, where they are having this executive privilege. i don't care whether trump or obama or clinton appointed the judges. that will give us guidance. these aren't hard cases to decide based on what the president and his people are putting before the court. >> we will talk about the tax cases up ahead. gop's push for the whistle-blower to testify. whistlble-ower to testify. whether your beauty routine is 3 steps...

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facilitate efforts by president trump and his allies in congress to threaten, intimidate and retaliate against the whistle-blower who courageously raised the initial alarm. an in-person interview is a nonstarter. lawmakers could submit written questions. he is raising concerns, including efforts by the president who has ignored a cease and desist request. three-time whistle-blower. let me ask you what i just read there from adam schiff. the response he had for the whistle-blower to testify. how much confidence do you have in the democrats's ability to block from that happening? >> well, the chair is executing the playbook that i actually briefed his staff on for many years. the whole point of protecting the source is to get the initial information and in your investigation you go out and see if you can corroborate those

facts from other witnesses. and there has been corroboration here. the facts will now be on the record. and the president's faction can respond to those facts when this moves to trial. >> and corroborating, we have seen new facts in that initial report. let me play a bit of tape from senator lindsey graham. there is a lot of noise surrounding all of this. something he questioned is whether or not the whistle-blower statute guarantees anonymity. >> the whistle-blower statute was never meant to give you anonymity. it was put forward to allow you to come forward and not be fired. you can't use it in a criminal process or a civil process. and you shouldn't be able to -- this is a misuse of the statute. you couldn't prosecute somebody based a whistle-blower complaint. every defendant has a right to confront their accuser.

you shouldn't be able to impeach any president, republican or democrat. >> i'm with counselor graham on that decision or that opinion of his. it doesn't provide for absolute anonymity. it has been provided by presidents as a matter of whistle-blower policy. those are the policies of bill clinton and george bush the son, as well as barack obama. so the policies now are divided on the hill. there are some who want to unmask the whistle-blower and some who want to keep the whistle-blower masked. as a matter of law, they have never provided for absolute anonymity in these decisions. >> it provides for protection. otherwise, whether it's policy or law, no one would come forward as a whistle-blower and therefore improve the quality of government services, if you will. that being said, you don't need the whistle-blower because the

whistle-blower's allegations have been krcorroborated by documents and testimony now. normally when we have a whistle-blower it comes out in a false claims act, piece of litigation. this is very different, if you will. it's not clear what the whistle-blower's goals and objectives were. clearly he came forward. it's been corroborated. the other thing that matters in this impeachment hearing, no the a criminal case or a civil case, is the outline of what the issues are. they have more than enough and they don't need the whistle-blower's testimony. >> given that, why do you think this is the refrain we hear from so many republicans? it's very basic. look at what we have uncovered. you sift through all the documents. not only what is in the complaint been corroborated but we have learned so much sense. >> on the substance of this investigation, they're screwed. they can't possibly defend this. so it is misdirection. one area that they feel like

they can possibly draw any kind of contrast and use their hearing time we will see this testimony talking about why the whistle-blower isn't here, them storming depositions, this is all about process for them. every minute we talk about the process is a minute we are not talking about the accusations made in depositions from witnesses on the phone call with the president of ukraine and president trump. >> if you look at the interviews the media have done with their base as we go along with impeachment process, have people, like in alabama, an example, when the president was there. they were interviewing people and saying they're after the president. the process is biased. it's us versus them. they are speaking to that base, to keep that base focussed and energized, so no matter what that 40% -- >> it is a process who the republicans engineered. >> exactly. >> everything we have seen and how it is being conducted was literally written by republicans when they were in the majorities of congress. >> between 2016 and 2018, they

had no problem with this oversight. >> in 2014 when they used a whistle-blower to start going after the obama justice department, they filed a brief with the supreme court arguing for whistle-blower enhancement protection. >> i want to send a cease and desist to that. >> he needed a lift. he looked so short compared to donald trump. donald trump was looking down at him and he's just going away. i use pillows sometimes because i'm short. >> you have been reading what they have been writing. i urge all our government leaders, all members of congress to step back and reflect on the important role they play.

. do you have confidence that's going to happen? that cooler heads will prevail and the protections afforded the whistle-blower will be recognized by more than just democrats? >> we're at a point of breakdown here, breakdown we haven't seen since the 1970s on federal whistle-blower policy. if you're for unmasking, you are against the policy of federal whistle blowing in this context. the whistle-blower would have to come forward as a source of the trial. but the longstanding practice of not exposing witnesses is in jeopardy. and this is being done for obvious reasons. and in the end, local polls and the local constituencies are going to be what informs the vote in the senate at the trial and all of the tactics do help generate support within the president's faction. >> thank you very much. i'm not going to have to weigh in on rand paul's vest. important to have you on the show.

>> i could. not even mister rogers. >> that call july 25th is not the first time he talked to president zelensky. he is teasing the release of another phone call, this one from april. ase of another phone call, this one from april y thank you to our military service members at home and abroad for all their hard work and sacrifice. we all sleep easier knowing you're out there keeping us safe. and on a personal note... sfx: jet engines ... i just needed to get that off my chest. thank you. geico: proudly supporting the military for over 75 years.

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weakness, decreased appetite, mouth sores, vomiting, weight loss, hair loss, and changes in certain blood tests. if you've progressed on hormone therapy, and have a pik3ca mutation... ...ask your doctor about piqray. welcome back to "up". just as one of the president's calls is being scrutinized to the impeachment inquiry, president trump is teasing another one.

. >> they want to have a transcript of the other call, the second call. and i'm willing to provide that. we'll give you that on tuesday. we have another transcript coming out which is very important. they asked for it, and i'd vladvlad gladly give it. >> we have a summer of that phone call. the they is the democrats who are leading the impeachment inquiry in the house. the summary of that first call was pretty damaging. it has not helped the president's case. he, however, continues to disagree. >> one thing i said, i would rather go into the details of the case rather than process it. process is wonderful. process is good. but i think you ought to look at the case. and the case is quick, so quick. >> this is where i want to start. as the president talks about there being another report of a phone call with the ukrainian president, i remember what was talked about during the time of the first report, the first memo

of the white house. it was unprecedented. it was dangerous. because it could initidiminish faith of other world leaders. and then he said i would be happy to provide. >> let's look at the whole secret server they keep stashing everything into. this is a very terrifying time i'm sure for world leaders. they probably say things that stroke his ego and say things that are embarrassing to him. zelensky was one example. the guy was trying to save lives in his own country. and he had to say things that stroked trump's ego that were a little bit embarrassing. and i feel sorry for everyone who has to watch this process. >> we were talking about history patch impeachments. go back to when president clinton was being impeached. he wanted to tout other things

he was doing. here, yes, he has gone into it from time to time as he has boarded his helicopter or plane. as he said right there, interesting to talk about the distance of all of this, not just the process. . >> he is not. if he really was interested in doing that, mick mulvaney, they would be testifying right now. . >> exactly. >> so you learn by everything he says. it is really the opposite. at the end of the day, he says that i want to talk about substance. when has he ever in his entire presidency talked about substance? i can't think of a time. >> the maga challenge on his twitter right now. what are you talking about, dude? you're having a sweepstakes on your twitter. . >> it is mind goggling that the summer of the first call they put up, how they thought in any way that was going to be a good thing for him. or the language, i need a favor for you appears. they talk about political interference, biden, about these things specifically. that's what they voluntarily put out. >> that's how bad this is. that's how bad this is. he has to make the argument now

that bad is good. because there is no way to save the situation. we live in the upside-down now. that's the only way they can explain what's going on. it's like when mick mulvaney said we do this all the time. no, you don't, honey. >> it's possible that the second call is perfectly fine. >> as colonel vindman testified, there was a different tone. >> look, that call was perfect. like i had, it has been the whole time. there's nothing here or there. >> listen, given donald trump's judgment and what we saw on the second phone call, i can't wait to see what the first phone call was. . >> with be waiting for it tuesday. >> there may be another powerful bomb that he says that's good. that's a perfect phone call. who knows? >> perfect has a different definition. >> if you rely on him to tell you what perfect is because he's going to release this transcript. it will be a bit of distraction. see, there is nothing wrong with

that. he will compare both and say they were both perfect phone calls. which is irrelevant to the second phone call, by the way. completely irrelevant. >> the chief justice who rebuked the president in the past will oversee a senate trial. the power over who and what is add miscible. i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy,

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the united states postal service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home. this is "up". i'm david gura. as president trump rails against the impeachment inquiry, he could face a twist of face. a job could test his view of judicial power. roberts would preside over the trial and decide what is add miscible and who could testify. notable because people said they want to hear from hunter biden. president trump's lawyers are expected to request temporary absolute immunity while he is in office, part of an effort to block the release of president trump's tax returns.

there's that and plenty of other legal challenges. a political ally on trial down the street accused of lying to congress and witness tamper, a breach of the aemoluments claus. and a columnist who claims he raped her. jeffrey, let me start by asking you to comment on a piece by thyme "time" magazine. how difficult would this be from moving to the courts to being in the public eye as he would be? >> i do agree. chief justice roberts cares about the nonpartisan legitimacy of the court and would shrink from choosing one side or the other. it is right in the constitution.

and i think he will view the trial as an opportunity to show his neutrality. that means taking a cue from chief justice ranquist. i think that probably means not making any contested evidentiary rulings, erring on the side of allowing evidence to come in on both sides. he doesn't want to be tipping the scales or allowing on the advice of the senate parliamentarian and ensuring nothing he does could be viewed as favoring one side or the other. >> how much determination does the chief justice have to do this his or her way. >> i haven't talked to him. i believe what the chief justice is probably doing is reading history. he loves to read biographies of other chief justices.

on phaeurb reading about chief just chase, taft, and carefully reading the own book about the history of presidential impeachment, which is excellent, "grandin quest." he said they have been too much like law professors. he will want to look to chief justice marshall. he required thomas jefferson to turn over evidence in the trial, the first case establishing the fight presidents have to a pied by subpoenas. at the same time, marshall took care not to butt his head against a wall as in sport, in other words, to pick battles that he couldn't win. i bet the chief is reading a lot of biographies, especially of marshall, and he is going to determine that history will judge him as well as marshall was judged in the trial of

jefferson. >> a. skofpcott bolden, say we to this point. the chief justice will be occupied with this. there is a docket the supreme court that has to be done there across the street. >> it's all about timing. he has to do it very, very carefully. he has lots of conflicts. given the timing, he may or may not. in regard to the chief justice, i think one other thing. you have to remember in all of his writings and public presentations, he talks about judges being umpires. balls and strikes. i think he will try to do just that. on certain issues, he allowed the senate to vote on the issues as opposed to him making an absolute ruling. look for that to be right there up from personal.

we have to see. roberts has been a conservative swing vote on all of these issues. trump blames him for not striking down the affordable health care act. i don't think the personal differences, despite the attacks on the judiciary, that roberts will allow that to infect his decision-making. but at some point in time, this is a political process. and he's going to be calling balls and strikes in this -- >> in this arena. >> exactly. >> we have this case, all of these cases moving rather expeditiously. these filings would happen fast. how closely are you paying attention to what happens here? >> i personally am just waiting for the tax returns to come. i've been rubbing my hands together. as a financial journalist, this is interesting to us. we want to see where the president gets his wealth. and everything is moving fast. let's hope the supreme court

sides with the people of the united states and their need for transparency. >> last question to you. we sroebg focus on the pressuree chief justice. it will come to whether or not somebody testifies in that trial should we get to that point. how will he do under that political pressure that he is insulated from in the building across the street? >> i think republicans have to be careful not to provoke the chief justice to rule against them. the antics they pull at these hearings that we see them do time and again, that might work in congress. if you do that to a chief justice not accustomed to that, he will not like that. he does not want to be made to look like a fool on this big stage. if anybody is conscious of the legacy involved in this type of proceeding, it is chief justice roberts. republicans could overplay their hand and really provoke justice roberts to not side with them on some things if they conduct themselves the way they have been during these hearings. >> thank you for the recommended

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this is "up". i'm david gura. at the start of what will be a pivotal week in the impeachment inquiry, the first public hearings just days away, three witnesses expected to testify. george kent bookended by the current and former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor and marie yovanovitch. impeachment investigators have heard from dozens of key witnesses in the capitol. they have corroborated what the whistle-blower had said. the transcripts show republicans attempting to distance or remove the president from the heart of this investigation. with the hearings going public, devin nunes wants to add witness testimony from hunter biden and the whistle-blower. his request gives us a sense of gop strategy. rather than shy away from conspiracies that mr. trump and government previously disavowed or played town, the republicans' request their willingness to

conduct a scorched earth strategy as they respond to nearly a month of blockbuster revelations about pressure. warning against what he calls sham investigations. congressman john yarmuth of kentucky said he thinks the lack of cooperation could hurt his re-election bid. let's take a listen to the congressman. >> i think you'll get -- he might get a bribery article. you'll get an abuse of power, which essentially will be the same thing because it will involve the same fact pattern. then you'll definitely get an obstruction of congress since the administration has chosen not to cooperate to any extent at all. >> the purview of the judiciary committee. zerlina maxwell for sirius xm, joe goldberg, columnist for the "new york times". former federal professor and now law for on the georgetown

university. and political report for "the daily beast". hans nichols in new york. bet betsy, let me start with you. what's going to happen come wednesday? what do we know about the process here? how much is the rules of this going to mirror what we have seen in the process? >> democrats are trying to tell a story that americans who haven't followed the impeachment inquiry thus far will be able to understand. and they want them to be able to understand it based on what they are going to be able to see on tv. there's a very appropriate symmetry, i suppose, that a president who became elected because, in large part, because of his television career, now faces the big et threat to his presidency because of proceedings that will play out on tv. so there will be george kent and bill taylor who are essentially fact witnesses. they will be describing what they understood with the visibility that they had from

their time in the state department both in washington and kiev regarding how trump and his personal lawyer rudy giuliani were endeavoring to influence the ukrainian government. then marie yovanovitch, formerly u.s. ambassador to kiev, will play the role of the victim. she was hurt, career derailed because of the activity rudy giuliani participated in. democrats hope she will crystallize the human cost of how rudy giuliani shaped and influenced america's foreign policy towards ukraine. >> a little bit here from the "washington post". 2500 pages released the past week provide a road map for the republican strategy. the documents show the extent to which gop lawmakers are focused on substantiated conspiracy theories, political targets and other subjects favored by trump. much of it ancillary. i imagine you have been going

through some of them as well. i read the kent transcript. i read the paul taylor -- bill taylor. i have seen paul taylor. what does it tell you about the shape of all of this. how hard will it be to translate somebody like george kent, who is a bureaucrat, someone he has worked with so many, to a fact-based witness, as betsy says. >> there the good news about this being an official impeachment inquiry are the people who know how to question witnesses, elicit evidence, are involved. >> we're talking about the congressman. >> that's right. we have had a dress rehearsal with the closed hearings. you know what witnesses are going to say. now they have to do it in a twhaeu captures the american people >> is that going to be difficult? as you look how these were

conducted, what new or not do you expect to come out? >> it is not necessarily that it will be new information. but the way that it is packaged in a narrative form will be compelling. the facts in this particular case are really simple. the president did them on television. the facts are the president on a call, inappropriately asked the leader of a foreign government interfere in the election by launching an investigation. but he also confessed on television. >> yes. >> because he did it in front of a camera. and just to add the cherry on top, he also asked china. so we're in a different moment than we have ever been before. during the robert mueller investigation we were looking backwards and trying to establish the facts in order to prove a conspiracy. now we have the conspiracy happening in realtime on television. the other thing that i keep thinking about is the fact that he is still trying to do the thing that he is accused of doing. he is still trying to get us to

care about biden and hunter biden being affiliated with this company and the potential for there being corruption. he is still trying to convince us that there's something there to look into, which is what he's accused of doing. and i think it's really easy for the american people to understand the facts as they are laid out to this point. that's what we will learn this week. >> hans nichols, you have been with the president in tuscaloosa at the football game yesterday and he tried to create a response to this. we see the contours more broadly in the letter we got from devin nunes. how much is that evolving and what can we expect to hear this week? >> counter program for the president. that could be remitted to the impeachment inquiry, right? he's planning on releasing this transcript or call log from that initial conversation he had with president zelensky. but the president has an unlimited universe of potential

other subjects that he can try to raise, try to bring. the power of the presidency is such and the power of the trump white house is such they have the ability to change the conversation. house democrats will try to keep it on what they want to talk about, the impeachment inquiry. the president clearly laying out what he is going to do, this call log. this is what we saw late last night. starting to attack the actual witnesses and questioning their integrity and raising the possibility of them lying. we will see that from the president. there are other things he can talk about. it is a busy, complicated world. the president likes to change subjects. we will see to what extent he tries to raise something else up. other things can happen in the news. there could be events the president is reacting to. i wouldn't assume they will keep the conversation this week on the four corners of the impeachment debate. and if he does, he wants to further constrict that and keep it on to just the call logs or

transcripts because he feels that is ubgs kexculpatory and a argument he can win. >> you have adam schiff in the letter he has written is adamant that this be a focused investigation in response to devin nunes to have all the witnesses testify. he said saying we will stick to them. john bolton didn't show up last week. there is a lot of excitement. he might learn something new from the interactions. how satisfied are you? how safd do you think lawmakers will be with the focus of this investigation being so narrow? are you content saying john bolton may not testify because he is waiting on the courts? put that in obstruction camp, we can move on without him? >> i don't think it's totally clear how narrow it will be. this set of hearings will be narrow. we >> tony: even how narrow -- what goes on before the intelligence committee, then to the judiciary committee to draw up the

articles of impeachment. it could tpoepblly broaden at that point. there is value in keeping it narrow up front because it is -- the value of this story, or the reason that this is kind of a dangerous story for the white house is because it's simple. and the more you look into it, there are further and further complications and republicans are trying to complicate it. they are trying to send people down various rabbit holes, to unpack conspiracy theories. if you can just keep it to this long pressure campaign to extort aeuf foreign government, open politically motivated investigations to help the president's re-election, if you can just tell that story until it is simply and clearly, then i think you can convince people month might be somewhat confused by all the swirling rumors and counterclaims around all of this. >> what we are seeing from zone bolton, nbc news confirmed he just signed a big book deal to write about what's happened

here. he is pinning his hopes to a court case. we learned mcmulvaney is doing the same thing, trying to latch himself onto kupperman's case. all part of what michelle is talking about, an effort to cause confusion, slowing things down >> we are seeing john bolton deciding whether he wants to go down in history as an american patriot who came forward with information about the president who he served or as a gutless wonder. he does not need a subpoena to come to congress and tell the american people the truth about the most consequential thing of a president in our history. so when he says, ohive to wait and see what the judge is going to say, legally that's wrong. it's true that the president has requested that he not testify, but congress has subpoenaed him. before the trump administration subpoenas were not optional. >> right. >> if you were subpoenaed you have to come and testify or have

a legitimate reason why you don't. we have seen brave americans step up like ambassador hill, like ambassadlieutenant colonel. those people are true patriots. they are respectful of the congress's responsibility with regard to checks and balances and oversight of this corrupt administration. >> let me ask you about mick mulvan mulvaney. what does it tell you about his standing in the white house at this point? a lot of talk about the president not having a check, not having somebody in the chief of staff. he has been acting chief of staff more than 200 days. what does this tell you about his relationship to the president, his relationship to the white house? >> to be honest, it's a little bit of a head scratcher. because mulvaney is, by joining this lawsuit, endorsing the premise that there is an open question as to whether the white

house's immunity claim, which they are making to try to shield their people from having to testify to congress, has equal weight to the congressional subpoena itself. by signing onto this, mulvaney appears to be bucking the white house line. i assume it is likely he would have joined this without a green light from white house counsel's office, but i don't know for a fact if that is correct. if he did it without a green light, that would mean in this tiny legal sense you could see him as going rogue. on the other hand, if the white house coup's office did green light him signing onto this lawsuit saying there's an open question as to whether uh-oh bay the white house or the congress, that means they have some sort of legal analysis that the ground they're on may not be as firm as they claim it to be. it sets up a really interesting question. circling back to this issue regarding ambassador bolton and

whether he testifies, one of the big areas of concerns to people adjacent to this impeachment probe, unless democrats are able to get sort of surprising new facts or dramatic new facts, they're not going to change the minds of senate republicans. and bolton seems to hold a key to the kingdom as far as actual new information regarding the way that the president made ukraine policy. so if bolton's voice is not part of this impeachment inquiry that means democrats may be foreclosing participation of someone who had the potential to be the most consequential witness in this probe. and that's a challenge democrats are having to grapple with now. >> michelle, what's your read whether or not he wants to testify. we had this tantalizing line from his attorney saying essentially he has been privy to all of this information that is not in these 2500 pages. he may want to be saying it in that book, i suppose.

he is a value witness. . >> we would be a valuable witness. i don't understand why the lawyer would put that out there unless he was saying, make us testify. >> make this happen. . >> but i also think, as to this idea that there is new information and the republicans are not going to move without this new information, i feel like the goalposts are always shifting. two weeks ago they were saying they were not going to impeach unless there was information, quid pro quo in return for releasing military aid. that has been definitively established. all of a sudden that is not enough. it will take new information. i'm not sure how much energy democrats should put into being charlie brown with the football of finding the thing that is finally going to make republicans acknowledge the truth that's in front of all of our faces. . >> zerlina, picking up on that, as you read the transcripts and you see how republicans arened intoing just the way they were questioning these witnesses in

the vin d tpvinn diagram, as i last hour, there they have said forget that. you lost the russia investigation. why are you harping on it? you look at this letter from devin nunes and you see nellie ohr and all the people from that investigation, they are bringing them back. >> i think the democrats have moved on. the president committed a different crime, new crime, the day after robert mueller testified. so i think it's republicans who don't want to let the mueller investigation go. i can be honest and say they did -- they were successful in spinning the bad information that was contained in the mueller report in the president's favor. bill barr did a good job spinning that information. and it didn't have the impact it probably should have because it outlined 10 separate crimes committed by the president. now we're in a new moment where he went out and did a new set of crimes and confessed on television, released a written

confessi confession. and so now we are going to establish all those facts in public hearings. and i think the american people understand that there are three reasons why this is really important. it goes to the rule of law. the president can't just commit crimes without any consequences. it goes to the integrity of the future election. so we're not looking backwards. if we just vote in high numbers, it will turn out in the right way because he is trying to cheat additionally. and the most important reason, it goes to our national security. when you are undermining the national security of the country, that puts people's lives at risk. >> very quickly, michelle. do you think in his heart of hearts he wants to see paul manafort exonerated in this? >> well, right. this scandal is all about the fact that is all about the mueller investigation in that it is basically trump asking ukraine to help him discredit the mueller investigation. when you look at the alternative theory, the conspiracy theory, part of the heart of that is

paul manafort was framed. . >> yes. >> the republican witness list is more than nostalgia. it is a bully move to intimidate people like the whistle-blower. that person who is on the list. so what they are saying is a message to others with information about corruption in this administration. if you come forward, you will be exposed and you will be crushed. >> rip that mask off. all right. we will come back in just a bit. still ahead on "up", new congressional reaction to the fight within the intelligence committee over impeachment inquiry witnesses when debbie dingell joins us. that is next. e dingell joins us that is next liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,

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this is "up". i'm david gura. this morning house democrats on the intelligence committee are reviewing interests from house republicans for more witnesses to testify in public hearings even though committee chairman adam schiff made it clear neither hunter biden will testify publicly. he warns republicans against turning the investigation and a sham, emphasizing they will not facilitate efforts to threaten, intimidate and retaliate. . comes after devin nunes should confront his accuser. let's start with the rhetoric

about this whistle-blower. many are describing this as a dangerous situation. your response to that and your reaction what you have seen in the letters the way that adam schiff has reacted to what's on display from your republican colleagues. >> good morning, david. probably the thing that worries me the most. so many things i'm worried about right now as we go into this. his attacking the whistle-blower is categorically unacceptable. the whistle-blower laws are in place to protect our national security. when you see something that could endanger our national security is something people need to know about. why saying something their very lives are in danger. by the way, we at this point this whistle-blower, i don't know who it is. i don't ever want to know who it is. their life is in danger. it is irresponsible for this continued asking of the press to unmask him. we need to, again, nobody is about the rule of the law. and this threatening on the

whistle-blower is above the rule of law. >> i'm going to guess as you make your way around the 12th district or there republican constituents expressing some concern about the fairness we will see this week. and i wonder what you are telling them as they look at the rules, passing by house democrats, who has been invited to testify. what is going to be the thing that might placate or make somebody concerned feel like this was done on the up and up. >>. >> i hear from everybody. i get yelled at by everybody. i can tell when somebody is ready to come and say something to me. but people that you would predict that were going to be anti impeachment or people you think are for impeachment say why are you doing this? there are a lot of mixed feelings. i say the same thing. last summer with tom steyer, bought 40 ads against me. moveon.org. they put enormous pressure on me. i was confident with where i was. i am worried with how divided

this country was and is. we should be more worried about it now than then. but when a whistle-blower comes forward, a president trump inspector general finds the threat credible, urgent and potential danger to our national security, my job when i take that oath of office is to protect our constitution, our country and our democracy. and at that point you had to go forward. i say that very bluntly to forward. we are in a -- what we approved last week or before we came home for veterans week was a process. everybody has got the right to a fair, open, transparent process. that's what we're in. and let's follow the facts. . >> let's talk about the a little bit atmosphere. the congressman bringing up tom stey steyer. what do you glean from the polls about popular attitudes toward the impeachment process, support for the inquiry proceeding, about support for the president

being removed from office. >> it is a little bit hard to disentangle. i always thought that you can't really expect the people to leave their leaders, radio it? i always thought one reason the support for impeachment didn't match strong disapproval is because there were leaders telling constituents this isn't impeachable. on the other hand, i think the facts are the facts. and the facts changing does move people's opinions. so anybody who is not in the fox news echo chamber or bubble -- >> the foxhole? >> right. in which donald trump did nothing wrong or in which these investigations he was trying to extort are legitimate, it is

difficult to explain away. since disapproval has always been more than half the population, i don't see that much in the vinn diagram between people who want to see him impeach impeached. a lot of overlap. >> i want to put up the polling from a couple of weeks back. looking at battle ground states, including michigan. 50% support house inquiry. 45% oppose. . >> the reason we have to give spoke e speaker pelosi props, is the serious allegations and evidence. the end game is for her and the american people to remove this man from office. to get rid of this corruption. she thought that the ballot box

was not only the best way to do it but that it would be counterproductive. that would aid the president's re-election. this is a story that everybody can understand. he sold them down the road for his own political favors. >> how much should democratic leadership be playing on these polls? full steam ahead? >> they need to keep their eye on the ball. i'm not in favor of changing your behavior and plans based on tracking polls because it is really just a snapshot of what one group of people in the country think about a thing. it is not a reflection of what's going on in the bigger picture. the facts are simple. the reason why this is different than anything else is because

you cannot rely on a fair election if the president in realtime is trying to cheat. that's what makes this different than anything we have seen before. you have to impeach him and hold him accountable because the behavior rises to the level of abuse of power that the constitution says you have to impeach in this situation. but the additional piece is you cannot just wait for the election next year because he is trying to cheat. so we cannot wait and hope that democrats overperform so much that we account for the cheating happening right now. because every single time he brings up allegations against joe biden, i argue that it actually has the effect of putting a cloud of suspicion around joe biden. because even though this scandal has been debunked, it is still out there. that's why he repeats it over and over and over again. as somebody who worked for hillary clinton, that cloud of suspicion can have an impact even if it's all based on lies.

>> one last question if i could just about the state of the democratic party pivoting a little bit. getting on the ballot in alabama. some recent polling the last couple of days. doing a head to head between him and president trump. bloomberg coming out on top in terms of personal wealth and the poll. 43%, donald trump 37%. just want to get your perspective on what his potential involvement in this primary could mean, what it says about what moderates are looking for. >> you know, i haven't talked to michael bloomberg. i talked to him in the past. again, we're speculating. i will tell you this. three years ago i told people president trump can win and everybody thought it was crazy. i said in speeches this past week in my district and in michigan, he can win again if we don't get the right candidate. i agree with that polls are just

a snapshot in time. polling showed he was going to win michigan. i was very worried, and that wasn't the case. people are focused on we need a winner. who is the person that is going to be the winner. it's not clear that he is serious. he walked up to the line before. i think democrats are focused on who can win in the general election. and that really matters to people like me and voters throughout this condition. >> shameless plug for michelle's latest column. she's worried as well. the most high profile revenge runs this week that began with the flip of a finger. up next, frenemies. tearing the president down to help him stand up. is it a form of defense that may actually work. that may actually work. make fitness routine with pure protein.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. it is a predictable defense. transcripts from officials show damning testimony about the elected attempt of kwaoeud pro quo with ukraine. wall street journal putting out some of the go-to lines. greatest hits such as there was

nothing wrong with the phone call. no quid pro quo. quid pro quos could be okay. the trump administration is incapable of quitting a quid pro quo. a message from senior senator from south carolina, lindsey graham. . >> what i can tell you about the trump policy toward the ukraine, it was in coherency. it depends on who you talk to. they seem to be incapable of forming a quid pro quo. >> implausible deniability. things were a mess. could have been the case he didn't know what was going on. >> really? that's the best they can do. either the president is ignorant or corrupt. it's not either/or. it's both. with regard to the ignorant defense, we have seen that with regard to working with russians to get elected president the first time.

the meeting at the trump power they said, oh, we didn't know that was illegal. when trump gave classified information, we didn't know we were not supposed to do that. on and on. you could be both ignorant and corrupt. trump displayed an astonishing level of corruption as well not just with regard to the ukrainian situation, the russian investigation, aemoluments and down the line. it is both. he is ignorant and profoundly corrupt. >> we talked so much about there not being a strategy from the white house. we heard all of these tried out, tested out by lawmakers. if the president were paying attention, this would cause him to bristle. are any of these steching as you look at what might become the coherency narrative? >> i don't think he is too dumb

to do the quid pro quo. because it is latin it sounds fancy and complicated. not just this thing for that thing. i don't know that the dumb defense is the best for them. i think they're in a pickle. they don't want to answer simple things like do you think crimes are illegal? it is a crime to ask a foreign government to interfere, right? the american people are on the page. the president went out and did that thing. so the republicans don't have anything to fall back on other than he's too dumb to do the crime because it is in latin. we all know it's a crime. he went and did the crime on television. so we know how the end of this episode of law and order ends. they show the crime in the beginning and do the trial and you already know the person is guilty, right? and the narrative is let's see if they can convict them. we saw the crime if the first

scene of law and order. >> cathy was here yesterday, libertarian. talking about rand paul, somebody who has been somebody steeped in privacy rights for so long 6789 now he is front and center calling for the whistle-blower to be unmasked. it is astonishing to me. >> i feel with so much about this terrible era, it is shocking not surprising. i lost my capacity to be surprised at how low they can go. it is interesting one of the strategies they look like they might be coalescing around is exonerate russia in order to exonerate trump. the conspiracy theory -- >> not only that but the parade. >> it would be fitting. always good to see your supporters on the campaign trail. i love that line by kamala.

that's a fire. >> i think that there's -- the two to me most damaging strategies that they could under take from the point of view of the future of the country are either, yes, it was ukraine and he was right to investigate this or, so what? that's the other thing they might coalesce around. yeah, he did it. but we don't consider it impeachable. and the reason that is so damaging is because that is a green light to do this again and again. >> and here we are. when you shop for your home at wayfair, you get more than free shipping. you get everything you need for your home at a great price, the way it works best for you, i'll take that. wait honey, no. when you want it. you get a delivery experience you can always count on. you get your perfect find at a price to match,

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welcome back to "up". i'm david gura. let's take stock on what's happening elsewhere. ron johnson spoke about his conversations with the president back in august. he said he pressed for military aid to ukraine to be restored. let's take a watch. . >> from my standpoint, i understand that most of president trump's advisers wanted the military aid released. and they were try ig to figure out in some way, shape or form to convince president trump to approve that release. when i raise the issue, he vehemently adamantly denied there was any kind of condition to release it. >> paul, let me start with you on this. what he is saying and what we have seen reported, there was

such pressure mounting. ron jo this lasted months and months and months until there was a financial trigger. >> that's right. that is when the quid pro quo was extremely credible people, former ambassadors. i don't think the defense really is or should be that there wasn't a quid pro quo. at this point the defense has got to be that, yes, there was a quid pro quo but what's the big deal. you know how trump is. >> right. >> again, that may not be a legal defense. to the extent that this is a political decision, that may give the republicans the cover they need to vote to keep him in office. >> let's play senator rand paul on "meet the press" with chuck todd a minute ago. similar defense but different flavor of it. let's take a listen.

>> i think the american people want fairness. and i don't think they're going to judge fairness when they are accuseding president trump of the same thing joe biden did. the president can always withhold aid until the corruption is fixed. you have to get in the mind of trump and his advisers and say, well, he didn't really believe the bidens were corrupt. i think he absolutely does. this is a partisan debate and nothing to do with legality or illegality. >> we are focusing on the policy here. . >> it is basically saying intervening on behalf of actual corruption is the same as intervening on behalf of lunatic party conspiracy theories. if you want to talk about a total relativism, kind of total annihilatism, that's where we are. it is true, at the be heft of the obama administration, in concert with all our allies,

said that this extremely corrupt prosecutor had to go because corruption is a huge impediment to ukraine's struggle in democracy and is one reason why sort of aid was not getting to where it had to go. the idea that that is somehow equivalent to saying i need you to do me a favor, though. and that favor is smear my political opponent for something that nobody with any knowledge that goes on in ukraine, they all stay this was pure fantasy. that this was, if anything, a sort of conspiracy theory with anti-semitic overtones. again, if you want to say that official foreign policy and crazy conspiracy theories are

equivalent because trump is incapable of telling the difference, if that's the defense you're going to go with, you are basically saying that reality is completely lost its salience. >> the corruption is that umbrella under which all of this other stuff is being crammed. . >> rand paul just did the thing. he is throwing up mud against the wall about joe biden in order to create a cloud of suspicion around him. they're still trying to do it. we have to put a stop to this. we have fallen really far in the trump era in a personal way, how we treat each other, nobody can be kind any more. but fundamentally, we can all agree we want elections to be fair. and the fact that even republicans, and we are electing right now, are trying to create a cloud of suspicion around joe

biden that is based in a crazy conspiracy theory is something that is beneath their office. and they need to stop. he just did it on television right now? can we please stop? >> who knows if we will see fiona hill testify. that was the clearest, most crystal ian part as they went down the rabbit holes. the more you do this, the more risk we are as we approach 2020. up next, we have seen revenge runs. she flipped off the president, lost her job, and flipped a seat that was held by republican. juli briskman is going to join us on "up" in just a minute. when you rent from national... it's kind of like playing your own version of best ball. because here, you can choose any car in the aisle, even if it's a better car class than the one you reserved. so no matter what, you're guaranteed to have a perfect drive. [laughter]

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stkpwhra this is "up". i'm david gura. two years ago, photos of ava va woman went weiler as she gave the president the one-finger salute. it beca she fessed up to her bosses who subsequently fired her. she has flipped a seat that once was held by a republican in january. she joined the board of supervisors in loudon county, home to golf golf club.

what happened after that moment when you were fired from the job because there was a lawsuit and all of that. what made you decide to run that you wanted to enter politics in this way. i know you have been politically active before. >> you know, that incident and getting fired from my job driving home that day i immediately decided i wasn't going to be silenced and i was going to be active. i signed up to work the polls. i rejoined the democratic committee and began helping other campaigns in 2018, including jennifer wexon's campaign. i decided in august 2018 that i would run for the seat. >> do you remember the impulse, the decision to do that as the motorcade drove by? i wonder how much of that anger and resentment and disconversation governs your politics today. >> well, i think if you look from a value standpoint, our

progressive values upcoming in 2020 will guide our policy moving forward. that day i was very frustrated with the hateful rhetoric, you know, the insults toward women, and that he was just golfing again when we had so many critical things that needed attention in our country. since that day, i think it's just gone worse. >> i read a column in the "washington post". the revenge run is everything in washington right now and it's pretty sweet. are you comfortable with that term? i know it has been applied to a lot of other races across the country? . >> well, i'm comfortable with that term. i mean, i think virginia sent a clear message, loudon county sent a clear message that we are really unsatisfied with what happened in 2016 and we're really unhappy with the way things have been going since then. and so we're ready to, you know, start at the ground level. we realize that every seat matters. we have been building this progressive coalition in loudon can the for some time.

i cannot be happier that it has can come to fruition. we have a democratic majority on our board, school board. >> let's pull back and ask you to weigh in on that. the revenge run as a thing as we have seen it around the country. how much is that galvanizing folks to get involved in politics? organizing opportunity to go become toor their own communiti and then help elect democrats, register voters and grow the base of the party in their own communities. that's what's happened. in 2018, we saw first-time candidates win. this week we saw danica rome win again. she ran because of the anti-trans bathroom bill.

also it affects pot holes. we seet women stepping up to f certainpp problems in their communities but also propelled byal the fact they're pretty pissed off by someone that confessed to sexual assaultth o tape, became the president of the nation that they live in. >> how much were youhe talking about this as you met with would-be voters. how much did they talk about tht anger, what was taken in that? how much was that a part of your campaign? >> i never led with it because i believe voters want to hear about issues like fully funding schools. more intelligently developing in our county which is expanded drastically in the last 20 years i've lived there. they want to l hear about women issues and that we're going to support the e. ramr.a. so i never led with it, but it came up time and time again. iim knocked on a democrats door and they said, you're a democrat? say no more. for you. to vote even when i knocked on lean republicans and republican doors

they said i haven't voted republican since like 2014pu an i'm not going to vote republican until this guy is out of office. if i might comment on the women's growing energy in the country, we i have certainly maintained thatin energy and i can't tell you how many women have stepped up to organize and, you o know, phone bank, write postcards, support candidates left and right. moms ftdemand, network nova, yo know, thea, unions have steppedp incredibly. so women, i swear at the backbone of all of this energy in the country and look out 2020. >> michelle goldberg, i see you nodding as she talks about it. >> juli tweeted the other day she's proud to represent her friends andto neighbors and i think shed represents a lot mo of us than that.sh there are so many women who were so traumatized by the result in 2016 who have been traumatized by this presidency who find it unbearable and unbearable affront on a daily basis. and the question all along has been, will this energy be able toer sustain itself?

i was sitting next to someone at a dinner like a couple days before the virginia elections and this woman was talking about how she hadn't been politically attuned before 2016 and now can't think about anything else and wasin canvassing even thoug she hatess canvassing. it's hard to knock on strangers' doors because she didn't know any wayus to register her dissatisfaction for this administration. and so you have seen all over the country this radicalization oftr women who just cannot belie the failure of our institutions, the utter failure to have an appropriate,an competent personn charge of this country. >> in a democracy, dissent is an act of faith. running for office is an act of faith. so props to all of these revenge runners because you said something earlier that was correct. we're asprofoundly disturbing. you saidou that with this administration, we are losing our capacity for outrage. so any time we hear something

new ande worse, it's shocking, but it's not surprising. and so what it's doing, the way that they are winning is they are changing our expectations about what good government should be. and so when we have folks like the supervisor elect run for office, it's not just i'm mad as hell and not take anything anymore, it's that i'm going to take back government. the united states belongs to me, notta to the corrupt forces in e trump administration. >> juli, thank you very much. good luck being sworn in in january ofsw next year. >> january 4th, yes. >> excellent. thank you very much to my panel in new york. selena maxwell and paul butler. we were saying good-bye to someone who has been with the "up" team since the beginning who is moving on to bigger and better. one of our producers who is in the pantheon of people known by his first name alone. there is only one seeno. he is here early, stays late and his good cheer is irrepressible. we'vehe worked together week in le for many of thehe

segments you've seen. seeno has been one of "up's" secret weapons and our colleague andrea mitchell and her team have m figured that out. our loss is their gain. heth starts on "andrea mitchell reports" thisea week. we'll miss you a ton. good aluck. up next, the state of the 2020 race from kamala harris who joins joy reed here on msnbc. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour? the real question is... do you mind not being a mo-tour? -i do. for those who were born to ride, there's progressive. ♪ work so hard do. ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot

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that does it for me today. thank you for watching.

"a.m. joy" with joy reed starts right now. >> if we don't go through this impeachment inquiry, we're letting him get away with something. he can't get away. you just got to move forward and take our chances. i know tactically, or strategically, it might -- it feels what happens it will give him more ammunition later. but he has done something wrong. he has to pay for that. in the real gangster world, he wouldn't last long. he lasts long in his own real estate world where he's the boss because he's the boss and he inherited all that money and he's a fool. he has not one speck of sympathy for anyone or anybody. he's just stupid, obobtuse. >> it appears robert de niro has no fear of donald trump tweeting at him. the legendary actor joined us saturday mincing no words about how he feels about trump while urging the nation to keep

pursuing impeachment. the moment is finally here. starting this week, the impeachment will be televised. house democrats are ending the closed door portion of the program and are now preparing to go public with their impeachment inquiry. something that has happened only three times in our nation's history. and just in time for the holiday season. the republicans sent their witness wish list to adam schiff. a list that includes hunter biden and the anonymous whistle-blower who helped launch the impeachment inquiry against trump. schiff denied the gop's request for hunter biden warning against what he calls sham investigations. a rejection the republicans are likening to a lump of coal. >> the ink wasn't even dry on the letter we sent to the democrats this morning before they blasted out that press release to all of their cohorts in the media that then ran and said, well, calling as if it's -- there's something wrong with us calling hunter biden, someone who i