♪ good evening, everyone. welcome to "kasie dc." i'm ayman mohyeldin. going public, weeks of closed-door testimony about to be out in the open as the fight over impeaching the president is televised in front of a national audience. assistant house speaker ben ray lujan joins us as democrats try to make the case for removing the president. but there are signs that the country is not paying attention or not yet on board. plus, turning our eyes to alabama once again. jeff sessions running for his

old senate seat. but will the worst opposition research on him come from his former boss, the president. we are going to talk to presidential candidate julian castro. and in just a few minutes breaking news from the "new york times" this evening. one of rudy giuliani's associates with a bombshell claim about what he was sent to ukraine to do, and it is heavily disputed. i am going to be joined by one of the "new york times" reporters who helped break that story. all of that and much more coming up in just a bit. but first for weeks now, the impeachment inquiry has churned behind closed doors. and to the american people, that process has, for the most part, looked something like this. career government officials whom i would say very few americans have probably ever heard of entering and exiting the capitol building. and then you've got the cable news anchors and reporters sifting through transcripts and delivering key excerpts. it's safe to assume that most americans haven't read those transcripts. they're probably hundreds of

pages in length. apparently some lawmakers haven't even read them as well. >> i am not going to read these transcripts. the whole process is a joke. >> i've been reading the reports and the actual transcripts i haven't seen it. >> on wednesday morning senators graham and paul can watch with the rest of the country when the first public impeachment hearings get underway. and, in fact, acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine william taylor and george kent will be telling their stories with the cameras in the eyes of the nation on them. part of this story will be an explicit quid pro quo between the president and ukraine. in his deposition in fact taylor said it was, quote, clear understanding that security assistance money would not come until the president committed to pursue the investigation in the bidens in reference to the president of ukraine there. as for kent, americans watching will hear things like this. potus wanted nothing less than

president zelensky to go to the microphone and say investigations, biden and clinton. with me here on set, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. and former adviser, josh earnest. in washington, d.c., politics editor for "the daily beast" and an msnbc contributor, sam stein. sam, let me go first to you. you are in washington d.c. put this week in perspective for us. as we have just laid out, a lot of this has happened behind closed doors. now begins the process of selling this to the american public. what is at stake for democrats? well, it's a monumental week, right? the groundwork has been laid for this moment hours upon hours of depositions, testimony releases, interviews, just getting the witnesses in to begin with was difficult. now you obviously enter the public phase of this where you have to actually execute what

is, if we want to be blunt about it, a show. you want to put on a show. you want to make sure that the american public actually understands what is a fairly simple thing. but also there are complexities. but you want them to understand what arrangement was made in ukraine by the president. so you have to structure the hearings. we know that these things can go off rails. for instance when they were in the house judiciary committee and they were talking to robert mueller or corey lewandowski, there were interruptions, there were stunts, the witnesses obviously did not cooperate all the time. and democrats realized that this is the opportunity to actually showcase their findings and hope that it sticks in the voters' minds. >> let's talk a little bit about this, sam, in terms of the lineup of the witnesses here because you alluded to this a little bit. but as the democrats try to make this case to the public, what is the narrative that they are going to try to piece together with the way that these witnesses are lined up and going forward beyond that? >> right. so you have bill taylor, you

have george kent, and ambassador yovanovitch. the idea here is to have essentially your star witness, in this case bill taylor, a decades-long diplomat, served both parties overseas, what is deemed unimpeachable qualifications. someone who was there who has a pretty thorough understanding of the arrangement vis-a-vis ukraine. he is going to lay out what is essentially a quid pro quo with the ukrainian government. and then you have george kent, and then yovanovitch who will come two days later. her job is essentially there to show that she is the victim of this. of course, numerous trump officials, rudy giuliani, chief among them, were trying to oust her from her post. you saw in the president -- the transcripts of the president's phone call, i should say the memorandum of the phone call that he had with the president, that he too had ominous words for the ambassador. so you bring her there to show that there's a human face to this process, there's a human

casualty, so to speak, to the president's approach to ukraine. and hopefully you can build a case that in fact what they were doing is an impeachable offense that asking the ukrainians to investigate biden, not only disrupted u.s. diplomacy but had real world consequences. >> and all of this was undoubtedly triggered by the whistle-blower and a lot of that whistle-blower was based on a phone call that took place. now someone who was on that phone call was lieutenant colonel alexander vindman who oversees security policy. and also he isn't scheduled to testify publicly, he is reportedly willing to do so. based on the transcript of his deposition, democrats will certainly want to testify. he testified that there was, quote, no doubt that the president was asking for a deliverable on that phone call with the president of ukraine, president zelensky. he said that he was concerned by the call and that he didn't think it was proper for the

president to demand that a foreign government investigating a u.s. citizen. the he also said that if ukraine pursued investigation into the bidens and burisma, it would be interpreted as a partisan play which would, in turn, undermine u.s. national security. now all of that concerned vindman so much that he immediately reported it to the top lawyer at the national security council. also of note, vindman noticed that the rough transcript of the call, in fact, was incorrect. so he made some edits. those edits were never implemented in the record that the white house kept, which vindman called abnormal. so, susan, the strategy for the republicans, when you've got the facts as we have just laid out there in the way sam was laying out the way they want to bring in the witnesses. what is the republican play here, what is the republican strategy? because this for the most part has been a democrat-led process. >> i think we've seen what the republicans have had up their sleeves. they are going to try and discredit the witnesses. but as sam stein said, they are

impeachable witnesses. these are all government servants, people who have dedicated their lives not just to their post, but in taylor's case, he served in vietnam. these are very accomplished people. now, what's interesting, though, is i think the republicans will also try and do some procedural things as the hearings go on. i think that can backfire on them. so, the narrative that the democrats have to give is a very smooth one which is why the opening of the hearings, when you have 45 minutes to ask questions by professional staff will make a huge difference in contrast to some of the other hearings we have seen. but i look also for the republicans, they tried some stuff over the weekend or on friday to get beau biden -- >> hunter biden. >> i'm sorry, hunter biden which makes no sense. but they're also going after the whistle-blower, which i democrats would frankly push back on more. the whistle-blower's complaint was verified by a trump

appointee, the i.g., of the intel committee, said this is a valid complaint. and he looked into it. >> credible and urgent, i believe. >> credible and urgent and moved it forward. so i wish that would be something that we took off the whistle-blower and put back onto the i.g. >> i want to elaborate on these points. the house republicans have released the list of witnesses. they want to cause part of the impeachment inquiry. and among the people that they want to hear from publicly as susan mentioned, hunter biden and that anonymous whistle-blower. now adam schiff has already denied that request warning against what he calls, quote, sham investigations. meanwhile "the washington post" reporting that house republicans' latest plan to show president trump from impeachment is to focus on at least three deputies. u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sondland, trump's lawyer, rudy giuliani, and possibly acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney who they say could've acted on their own to influence ukraine policy. and with that in mind, here's

what the president talking about ambassador sondland had to say just on friday. >> let me just say i hardly know the gentleman. but this is the man who said there was no quid pro quo. and he still says that. >> i hardly knew the man. that's what the president just said. you heard it there. what a difference a month makes because in a tweet back in october the president referred to sondland as a, quote, really good man and a great american. so he clearly knew something about him that made him prompt that tweet. give me your thoughts here in terms of where the republicans are trying to go after the whistle-blower. they're trying to undermine the whole impeachment process. what did democrats have to do to take control of that narrative and not let republicans try to do so? >> well, i think susan mentioned it perfectly that it has to be a smooth story. they have to keep it simple. and i think what's disappointing is that i can tell you what a

good republican defense is not, is not reading the transcript. it would help to read the transcript if you are to protect your nominee. and it's disappointing to hear that senator paul, who's staked most of the integrity of his career, has been around protecting whistle-blowers and to see him change course, there has been no instance that we have seen from any public official that has blindly kept loyalty to this administration and it's panned out well. i think that speaks volumes. the other thing that i would say is that everyone who has staked their integrity on this president has been disappointed. and at the end of the day, democrats need to call it for what it is. instead of even using the language of quid pro quo, let's call it what it is. this is payola. this is bribery. this is extortion. i think once you get that, it'll break through to the american people that this is something that people have to wake up and see that our democracy has been

compromised. nothing of what president trump has done was there to advance u.s. policy by any means. this was a personal and private vendetta against an opponent setting up a course to take over in 2020, which will not work. >> yeah. those sentiments were also echoed by representative jim himes who said you can't use the word quid pro quo. you've got to use bribery. some break news out of bolivia this evening where bolivian president evo morales announced his resignation. this comes after an audit of the recent election that found irregularities and, quote, clear manipulations of the voting system. in fact, the organization of american states which conducted the audit said that the election should be annulled calling his recent victory into question. the disputed election set off weeks of violent protests across that country. this resignation comes just

about two weeks after lebanon's prime minister announced that he too would be stepping down following countrywide anti-government protests. when we return, thousands of pages of testimony reveal all roads lead back to rudy giuliani. brand-new reporting just out tonight about one of his associates. "the times" reporter joins us live in just a moment. and why john bolton's meticulous note-taking should concern the trump white house. a lot more "kasie dc" when we continue. kasie dc" when we continue as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchemel... cut. liberty mu... line? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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all right. now to a break news story just out from the "new york times." the paper reporting a lawyer for an associate of rudy giuliani says his client left parnas, told ukrainian officials in may that unless they investigated joe and hunter biden, vice president mike pence would not attend president zelensky's swearing-in and that aid would be frozen. according to "the times" parnas is preparing to share his account with impeachment investigators. parnas and his business partner igor fruman were indicted last month with campaign finance charges. and this new report is a potential sign that parnas may be turning on giuliani. that report notes that parnas' account, while potentially significant, is being contradicted on several fronts. none of the people involved dispute that the meeting actually occurred. but parnas stands alone in saying that the intention was to

present an ultimatum to the ukrainian leadership, and that in itself would be significant. giuliani also denied parnas' contention that he delivered the warning at his discretion. nbc has not independently confirmed the report. we have reached out to the attorney for lev parnas but have not yet heard back from him. "new york times" investigative reporter michael rothfeld. we appreciate your time. first of all, walk us through, michael, if you can, the significance of this development. >> well, the significance is that this story, which, as you noted, is disputed, is that this would be the earliest instance in which a quid pro quo was mentioned involving american aid and the desire for president trump and rudy giuliani his personal lawyer to have an investigation announced in joe

biden and his son hunter biden and that this meeting occurred before the new ukrainian president zelensky was inaugurated in may. so that's earlier than any discussion of a quid pro quo that we've known so far. and in addition according to mr. parnas' lawyer, the mealing involved a discussion of whether vice president mike pence would attend the inauguration of president zelensky. so that's another condition that hasn't been mentioned so far as to what would happen if the investigation wasn't announced. >> and i know that you write that the claim by parnas challenges the narrative of events from the president as well as ukrainian officials. walk us through that bit though. >> that's right. because, you know, president trump has said there is no quid pro quo. there wasn't any quid pro quo involving aid and president in zelensky has said publicly after president trump's call was revealed that he never felt pressured to announce or do an

investigation into joe biden who obviously is a political opponent of president trump. so, this does challenge that that this occurred before president zelensky was inaugurated and would have been on behalf of rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, kind of in effort to apply pressure. and let me get your thoughts on rudy giuliani because this is pretty significant in all of this. what kind of legal jeopardy could this put rudy giuliani in when you've got parnas saying that essentially he was doing so based on giuliani's direction. giuliani as we noted in the setup to this categorically denying that. >> i'm not sure what legal jeopardy that would create for giuliani. we have reported that he's under investigation in new york where lev parnas and his associate were charged with campaign finance violations. and giuliani's being looked at for potentially foreign lobbying violations. that wouldn't necessarily relate

to this. this could -- if parnas testifies before congress or if he provides that information and they're able to, you know, corroborate it, then that could create an issue, additional information for the impeachment hearing for president trump. >> all right. michael rothfeld live for us this evening. i appreciate your reporting and thanks for joining us, michael. let me go to sam stein really quickly. let me get your thoughts on this new significant piece of information that michael there was just reporting on. and pick up really on rudy giuliani. what does this mean for rudy giuliani, if, in fact, as michael was reporting, you've got parnas potentially cooperating with both impeachment investigators, possibly even in the case that is being brought against him. but saying essentially that he was doing this at the request or at the direction of rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer. >> well, two things. one, rudy said he categorically did not tell him to say that. that's not the same as saying he

did not say that, which is, you know, stuck out to me. but i think the bigger picture of what you're talking about here is for weeks now it's been abundantly clear that rudy is getting isolated here. you've had multiple witnesses talk about him as the pointman on this policy, as someone who is giving directions. they have testified that donald trump would defer to rudy giuliani when it came to ukrainian policy. and it all leads to a very tricky but inevitable question, which is what will trump do about rudy. will trump look around and say, you know what, the water's too hot, i got to sacrifice someone, the person who i'm going to is rudy because rudy was the point on this. he's not a government employee, he is a personal attorney and i can just put it all on him. or does rudy know too much? is there stuff that makes him indispensable to trump? that was raised in this "new york times" piece. it's also sornt of the undercurrent of that "washington post" piece where trump is looking at the people he can

throw overboard and his personal lawyer is at the top of the list. >> and we are going to get some of that from the testimony perhaps later this week from fiona hill who talks about in her deposition the role rudy giuliani played here. but let me pick up on sam's point, which is how much damage do you think rudy giuliani has caused for this president, or do you think that in fact this is what the president wants. he wants somebody like rudy giuliani who potentially he could throw under the bus or be. he can be essentially create this havoc by tweeting out in the middle of the night, going on sean hannity show, slipping out a piece of information, even when it was dealing with the hush money payments that, yes, the money was paid and softening the significance, if you will, of some of these revelations. well, the president liked rudy giuliani going on television and speaking out the way he did when it came to mueller. there is no doubt about that. he enjoyed seeing him go out there and confusing everyone he possibly could. this is a little different though. this is going to government

operations. this is going to the president himself saying on that call even though it wasn't a full transcript, was a partial transcript, of speak to rudy giuliani and bill barr. so the president has put him there. and i think sam's point is an excellent one. we don't know if rudy's too dangerous if he's inside the tent or outside of the tent. that's what i think the president's probably dealing with right now. and so is rudy giuliani. he's under investigation by the fbi. and that's a very big deal as well. one of the things that no one's talked about and i'm just kind of curious is when he was doing all this work and traveling to the ukraine and other places, was he doing it on a diplomatic passport? because that would be a direct link between the government work versus the private client work that he was doing. so i'm absolutely fascinated by that. >> i will say to that point, i think christopher wray said he was not aware whether rudy giuliani had a security clearance, not exa ktly a diplomatic passport. but if he's dealing with the

president on sensitive issues like foreign policy. >> i had to ask rudy that very question because i was curious who's funding this stuff. is it a private client, is it donald trump? he has private clients and that he was traveling to places like madrid, for instance, on their dime for separate president and just happened to be doing this quasi-diplomatic ukrainian policy while there. now, i don't know if that's believable or not. but where the money goes does actually raise a number of questions, as susan noted. and it is something that the lawmakers, at least one lawmaker on the impeachment inquiry told me is a point of emphasis and inquiry for them. because they want to know exactly who was funding it for what purpose and whether there was laws violated because of it. >> i'm sorry to interrupt, but did you ask him what kind of passport he was traveling on? >> i did not. >> -- my assignment editor, i'm sorry. [ laughter ] >> i'll get to the bottom of that forrus. >> when we return i am joined by

assistant speaker ben ray lujan. have democrats done the job they need to do to make their case with the high-stakes hearings that are about to play out this week? stay with us. week stay with us on the brink of public hearings, after more bombshell testimony last week, ari melber breaks down where the inquiry is going and what's next for the president. "impeachment: white house in crisis kerks tonight at 9:00 on msnbc. isis kerks tonight at 9:0 msnbc. made that myself, too. order up. fries on the side. right where i like 'em. don't forget the grease fire. burn, baby -- wait, what? -[ alarm beeping ] -i said grease fire. what are you doing on the counter? when owning a small business gets real... sorry. can i get a to-go box? ...progressive helps protect what you built -with customizable coverage. -aah! ...progressive helps protect what you built at bayer, we're helping to adto repair heart tissue.es

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after weeks of closed-door impeachment proceedings, public hearings will begin on wednesday. up first is acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine william taylor. house democrats say that new information will come out of these open hearings, but the transcript released earlier of his closed door testimony provides a preview of what we can expect. in fact, taylor told a bipartisan group of house members, quote, president trump did insist that president zelensky go to a microphone and say that he is opening investigations of biden in 2016 and president zelensky should want to do this himself. he also later added this. if president zelensky did not clear things up in public, we would be at a stalemate in terms of military aid to that country. now, without that roughly $400 million in aid, taylor testified that more ukrainians would undoubtedly die. joining me now is democratic congressman from new mexico, and

assistant house speaker ben ray lujan. thank you very much for joining us this evening. there is a lot to cover here. and i wanted to start first of all by talking about the importance of what we are about to witness on wednesday. because, as you know, our network, many others are going to be covering these hearings. but how important is it that the democrats and congress in general make this process now public to make the case to the american public? >> ayman, this is an important week. the american people will be tuning into public hearings, public hearings where ambassador taylor and a high-ranking state official and kent will be testifying in an open hearing on wednesday. and ambassador will be joining us on friday as well. so, again, an important week associated with sharing information with the american people, getting the facts out. and, again, getting an answer to a simple question that our republican colleagues refused to answer, ayman, which is, should

the president or any other elected official in the united states of america be able to ask a foreign president to meddle in our elections for personal gain. and in this case where president trump put our national security in front of his personal interests. >> do you expect to learn any new information this week when the setting is a more public setting than what you have already been previewed to? >> well, the transcripts have been abundantly clear. and i'd encourage the american people as well to read through those transcripts but also tune in on wednesday and thursday of this week and hearings next week as well so that they can hear the facts for themselves from the witnesses. and, look, as long as we continue to hear the testimony as it has been presented in these transcripts, i think that the american people will be alarmed. >> let me ask you, sir, about those that you are not going to hear from, at least so far. and that includes people like the former national security adviser john bolton.

you've got mick mulvaney, among others. do you think that the democrats should, in fact, go the distance in making sure people like john bolton, mick mulvaney, appear before congress and let this play out in the courts? do you think -- are you at all concerned that you may be going -- foregoing thoroughness for transparency with what you have so far? >> well, first and foremost, it should be understood by the american people that mr. bolton and mr. mulvaney have been invited. and they should appear before the committee voluntarily in addition to the subpoenas that have been issued to both mr. bolton and to mr. mulvaney. we do know that mr. bolton called what the president did the equivalent of a drug deal, a shakedown of sorts is how i would describe it. and mr. mulvaney again went on national television and confessed. so we've already heard from them. but it's important for them to come forward. they should do so. but with that being said, what i would say based on my knowledge of the transcripts that i have

read, the testimony that is coming forward, and the hearings that are scheduled this week, we already do have evidence of the president's wrongdoing of the extortion, of the criminal behavior and activity that we saw on full display. >> are you at all concerned that as you make this push to hear from mick mulvaney, john bolton, that republicans will want to hear from vice president joe biden and his son hunter as part of the impeachment investigation, and how likely that we are going to hear from him. >> well, again, i think that our republican colleagues who first asked for public hearings and now are saying that they do not want to have public hearings continue to use every tool they can to distract from the question that has to be answered, which is should the president to the united states shake down a foreign leader to intervene for personal benefit and put our national security to the wayside? that's what our republican colleagues don't want answered for the american people. and it's why they are going to continue to try to distract all the way through. this is just another one of

those examples. >> let me, sir, play you a sound byte from congressman jim himes about the phrase quid pro quo. it is obviously a phrase that is being used in whether or not there was a quid pro quo. but listen to what he had to say this morning on "meet the press" about that. >> forget quid pro quo. quid pro quo is one of these things to muddy the works. when you're trying to persuade the american people of something that is really pretty simple, which is that the president acted criminally and extorted in the way a mob boss would extort somebody, a vulnerable foreign country. it's probably best not to use latin words to explain it. we've got to get off this quid pro quo thing because it's complicated. they have already attested to the fact that it occurred. what they are dealing with here is corruption, abuse of power in a way that damaged american national security. >> when you take that information that he just said there and the way he characterized quid pro quo and the messaging behind it, are you at all concerned that democrats have a messaging issue when it comes to the topic of impeachment?

>> ayman, look, i completely agree with the assessment laid out by my colleague jim himes who is someone that i respect very much and thank for his work every day. jim is absolutely correct. the president was engaged in an extortion in the same way that a mob boss would shake somebody down. the corruption surrounding this is on full display. we should call this for what it is. and it's the extortion and the corruption, the violation of the president's oath to office, to the constitution of the united states of america. and, again, i agree that we just need to lean in, make sure that we are presenting the facts to the american people, and let the american people hear for themselves exactly what has occurred. and i believe that when the american people hear the facts presented to them, they're definitely going to say that the answer to the question that i've been asking that our republican colleagues refuse to answer, should the president shake down a foreign president for personal gain and put aside our national

security in america? the answer to that question is no. and we are going to hear that from american people. >> representative ben ray lujan on what is going to be a historic week one way or the other. thank you, sir, for joining us this evening. when we come back, the elephant in the stadium, the president goes to the heart of the sec country and, of course, trump country. but it's his former attorney general that is running for senate that's dominating the headlines in alabama. trump appears with one of jeff sessions' competitors as we hold our breath to see how nasty this race is about to get. a live report next. a live report next i'm your 70lb st. bernard puppy, and my lack of impulse control, is about to become your problem. ahh no, come on. i saw you eating poop earlier.

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pressure couldn't be higher right now on presidential candidates. i'm going to talk live with julian castro in the 8:00 hour who is focusing on just three states, texas, nevada, and iowa where he joins me live. but already the state of alabama is feeling a lot more like october 2020 than october 2019. the president was there

ostensibly for a football game. in what has suddenly become one of the most hotly contested state on the map and essential if democrats have any hope of trying to take back the senate. nbc's monica alba joins us live from birmingham, alabama, with more. >> all eyes may have been on the lsu alabama matchup on saturday night. but it's the political faceoff taking place off the field that has everybody already keeping score. in the heart of football season, it is starting to feel like campaign season with president trump visiting what is suddenly the most unusual senate race on the map. inside the president and first lady shared a suite with at least one republican candidate congressman bradley burn. but the elephant in the stadium, former attorney general and frequent trump target jeff sessions, who shook up the race announcing he is running for his old seat. >> did i write a tell-all book?

no. did i go on cnn and attack the president? nope. have i said a cross word about our president? not one time. >> so far the president declining to go on attack of one of his earliest supporters. >> we will see what happens. he's got tough competition. >> despite once calling sessions the biggest mistake of his administration. >> i would say if i had one do-over, it would be i would not have appointed jeff sessions to be attorney general. >> across campus, candidate and former auburn head coach tommy and democrat senator doug jones tailgating with senator joe manchin who knows how hard it can be to defend his seat. trump's endorsement isn't everything. last time roy moore losing in the general election. and luther strange losing in the primary. so turning of course from alabama to louisiana, also featured in that game, the president will actually be heading down there for a rally later this week. and it's his third appearance in the state in the last couple of

weeks. that's because there is a gubernatorial election coming up next weekend. and the trump campaign is hoping that the president's presence there will help the republican candidate against john bel edwards there. the president hopeful because in the last few weeks when he was there, he helped to kind of force a runoff there and all signs are pointing to that being a big factor heading into that election. so here in the south lots to watch for, lots of story lines, ayman. >> thank you so much, monica. desiree, let's talk a little bit about senator doug jones here for a moment. because, quite frankly, and statistically, it was women and especially black women who delivered him that senate seat in alabama as we just noted there when he defeated roy moore. the significance of him being able to do that again, is he so far in a position to bring those voters out once again? does he have that coalition? >> i think that, you know, i don't want to speak for all african-american women, but we

are consistent in our support. we do our civic duty. and i think that there are a lot of things up on the ballot that i think people are very concerned about. but i do think it's on every candidate right now to engage in a dialogue with voters and not a monologue. so if he would like to activate and get that support, you know, this go round, he really has to be out there having conversations with the same people who elected him. and if you want to get people in your corner, it's time to expand the electorate and stop just looking to the base of a party. >> sam, your thoughts really quickly on jeff sessions here. he was really one of the most loyal cabinet members of the trump administration. he was there for so many of the controversial signature achievements early on, on immigration and what have you. will voters there look past his feud with the president? >> it's a bit masochistic.

trump could just go on a twitter tirade at any moment and derail his candidacy. i guess his gamble is that that won't happy. there is association obviously that that would bring him over the edge in what is a fairly crowded field at this point. but it's a high-risk high-reward strategy. he could be humiliated completely and publicly by the president for doing this. and he must be doing some sort of back trailing to make sure that doesn't happy. >> stick with me for a moment because joining me is former democratic governor of alabama. don, great to have you with us, sir. you saw in jeff sessions' announcement his weird embrace of the president despite the fact that the president has trashed him and humiliated him both publicly and privately. how do you explain that? i mean, it says something about our state of politics. but how do you explain that? >> well, no matter how much jeff sessions sucks up to donald trump, trump's voters are going

to gravitate toward roy moore. i think we are looking at a rematch between doug jones and roy moore. i think the republican runoff will be between roy moore and jeff sessions. but sessions is in trouble. not just because he's being branded as a trader for abandoning trump, but there is a lot hidden in his closet that's going to be revealed in an upcoming book "a theft of power" coming out this spring by don siegelman. and now that that disclosure is out of the way. sessions is not going to get the trump voters because most of those are evangelical voters. alabama just passed a constitutional amendment, a million alabama voters voted in favor of posting the ten commandments in every public place. roy moore is branded as the ten commandments judge.

there is a silent christian majority in alabama that's going to come out and support roy moore regardless. so i think we are going to have an interesting republican primary. i think it's going to be roy moore could leave the ticket and jeff sessions will be on it. >> so then to that point, how would you rate doug jones' chances in that race and how do you rate his performance so far? >> i think doug is doing what, you know, what is necessary to do if you're going to try to win in a republican state in alabama. so, he is positioning himself more toward the middle. and i think it's going to be a rematch between roy moore and doug jones. so everybody buckle up. it's going to be a great race, a great time to watch alabama television. >> thank you so much, governor. susan, you wanted to weigh in on this conversation?

i see you shaking your head. >> the governor is right. if it's roy moore against doug jones, that's a problem for republicans, which is if you look at the president's history of getting involved in republican primaries in alabama, he is not good at it. he should not get involved because that's how he ended up with roy moore the last time. so, i see what the governor -- >> who is going to be the one to tell president trump don't come down to alabama, we don't need you? that's just not going to happen, you know that. but for the primary i think he is going to be very careful because they do not want roy moore again because roy moore will lose again. >> all right, susan, stick around for us. desiree barnes, thank you so much for making your debut here on "kasie dc." just when you thought the democratic field was getting smaller, another new york billionaire starts filling out his paperwork to get in the race, believe it or not. bernie sanders with alexandria ocasio-cortez in iowa. we are going to tell you what they have to say. that's next. they have to say that's next. your car insurance,

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♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪ welcome back, everyone. "new york times" reports a certain candidate cut salaries, fired consultants and laid off or reassigned many campaign workers. it was the latest sign that contendering vying for support for moderates and the party's

establishment are all but running on fumes, exhausting their cash with the patience of their supporters but barely moving in the polls. now that report actually came from october 23rd of 2015. the candidate? it was jeb bush. 2020 democratic field is down to the size of the 2016 republican field but is also going through the second or sudden, i should say second guess iing. michael bloomberg has started filing paperwork for a potential run. sam stein is back with us once again. what's the niche that michael bloomberg is trying to fill here? >> well, it's complicated. >> it always is, sam. >> this is not -- this is serious. this is not him just trying to keep his options open. this is something that will likely very much happen. and the theory of the case is this.

you have a field where joe biden -- although the polls show him still maintaining his lead, has not done as well as many moderate-minded democrats and establishment-minded democrats had hoped. then you have bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, two progressive liberals splitting that lane and attaching themselves to a medicare for all policy that these establishment-minded democrats feel is an election albatross basically. so into this void steps michael bloomberg who believes that after the first round of voting, first four states, the nomination process will be just as cloudy as ever but on top of that, it will become abundantly clear that joe biden is not best positioned to win the nomination, in part because of his general election liabilities and that the party will then go searching for someone who can fill that void and he will be the person. it's very complicated. the thing that bloomberg has working for him is this. he has a ton of money. >> yeah.

>> while everyone else is duking it out in iowa, new hampshire, he will be putting those ads to place and getting his name i.d. up. the theory is that come those voting times, people will turn to him and say please save us from all these creatives. >> in charles city, iowa, with the sanders campaign, shaquille, what are you hearing about bloomberg's entry into the race? are they at all concern? >> reporter: no concern. it's clear the campaign is very happy to engage on. not only from comments and statements his aides and advisers are saying but listen to what the candidate is saying out on the road. i got to speak to senator sanders a little bit after his last rally. you seem really angry about the

prospect of him jumping into this race. >> tonight we say to michael bloomberg and other billionaires, sorry! you ain't gonna buy this election. >> reporter: what fires you up? >> it's nothing personal about bloomberg. the american people are sick and tired of billionaires continuing to have so much influence over the economic life in this country and the political life in this country. look, a lot of people would like to run for president of the united states but they don't have $52 billion or they're not going to be able to buy all the media in california and all the other states and i think that we have got to move away from a system that grants so much power to people who have money and that's about it. >> reporter: now i've been covering senator sanders for several months now. this is not a candidate who enjoys engaging with other candidates and attacking other candidates. to see his tone and how he was willing to take on michael bloomberg, there is a distinction and you can see how the campaign is willing to have

that fight. >> in our next hour, jonathan la mere, nick contossore joining the conversation plus by interview with presidential candidate julian castro. kasie dvr. kasie dvr. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com whether your beauty routine is 3or 57,... make nature's bounty hair skin and nails step one. it's the number one brand uniquely formulated for silky hair, glowing skin and healthy nails. nature's bounty,

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all right. welcome back, everyon to "kchas"

mark meadows apparently told eric swalwell to shut up. when it comes to the main focus, president trump trying to get the president of ukraine to investigate the bidens, the ownness is on the democrats to take all the words in the transcript and bring them to life. their wish list for this week's public testimony includes people like hunter biden, tim morrison, who already spoke behind closed doors and the initial whistle-blower. intell committee chairman adam schiff swiftly said no to the whistle-blower request late last night over, of course, the protests of the president. >> the whistle-blower disappeared. whatever happened to the second whistle-blower? why isn't the first whistle-blower going to testify anymore? do you know why? because everything he wrote in that report, almost, was a lie.

>> now npr's tamara keith found piece by piece the key elements of that person's story had, in fact, been corroborated in depositions, testimony and media reports from things as basic as how many officials were on the call between the president of the united states and that of ukraine to the white house locking down the call which was, in fact, confirmed by lieutenant colonel alexander vindman. starting this week, democrats will try to do the same, use a public forum to re-create the whistle-blower's narrative. with that i would like to welcome in my panel for the hour. joining me on set, reporter for the associated press, jonathan la mere, nick confessore and communications for hillary clinton's 2016 campaign. they're all msnbc analysts and contributors and we're happy to have them here on set. from a public relations or

communications point a tough week ahead. they have to sell this to the american public. they may be convinced behind closed doors of what they've seen. now they have to do it in public. >> i'm not sure they have a tougher challenge they've had so far. number one, the majority of americans are on their side, right? the majority of americans do believe donald trump should be impeached and removed from office. second, we have that finding with the fact that nobody has given a public testimony so far, right? you're about to see three key credible witnesses come out in front of the american people. millions will be tuning in and following this. the biggest challenge for adam schiff, for the other chairs of the committees and other democrats testi s questioning t witnesses, keep it simple. do not confuse people. it's important that the american people get a firm understanding of what took place, what happened. russian investigation became so confusing even for those of us

who do -- who are on television every day. i think they have to keep it very above-board, top line and lay out the facts in a very systematic process. >> are the democrats who going to participate at all this week haunted by what they saw happen with bob mueller earlier over the summer? >> not only haunted but learned very valuable lessons from that. >> such as? what toung they learned? >> again, you have to keep the message tight and simple. when you look at the facts as they're laid out in the ukrainian situation, donald trump, rudy giuliani, his minions are trying to confuse everybody yet again. adam schiff and members of congress questioning these witnesses, if they can keep it very, very top line, very simple in their questioning, i think it will go a long way to persuading the american people to be more on the side of impeachment. >> what's the narrative, nick, that the democrats have to weave

here or write here with the testimony? what's the central thing they have to get out in public? >> that the president used powers of his office and taxpayer money to try to ex-tort a foreign country in his re-election. they should use words like extortion, bribery and corruption. i think that president trump is very skilled at robbing terms of meaning over time, fake news, and quid pro quo has become a term like that. it's airy and strange to most people. it's latin. it's not english. >> yeah. >> it puts a layer of blah over some pretty harsh facts. and the smart thing for the democrats to do is spin a very simple narrative. the good news for them, the facts are on their side and good news for them is that every witness so far has basically corroborated the facts of what happened if not share in the opinion of how serious the acts

were. >> what should the democrats try to avoid here? we've gotten a sense of what they should do. what do you think they're being advised or concerned about avoiding? >> well, first and foremost, there's going to be a lot of republican pushback they'll need to contend with. some of the republicans, jim jordan perhaps, who will try to make a spectacle of this. republicans have largely fought this on matters of process. they said this has been a secret. they dwelled on the idea that the interviews were being done in the basement of the capital. not to focus on that's where the secure room is, the scif is. we'll hear a lot about the whistle-blower this week, certainly from the republicans. not necessarily in the hearings but outside force. president, in particular, and his allies, have zeroed in on the identity of this person. we know, in fact, some members of the right, including the president's eldest son, donald trump jr., who has identified the person.

>> allegedly. >> allegedly, right. media outlets have not confirmed that and there's federal protections for whistle-blowers, to protect their identity for this reason. it's an attempt by the white house to revive a portion of that playbook. let's remember when they were able to fight some of the facts in the investigation, they focused on the investigators themselves, whether it was jim comey, lisa page and peter strzok, the president suggesting they were biased against him, deep state nefarious behavior. this whistle-blower, who does not have an identity yet, they're trying to make him the face of this, that the fix was in from the beginning, that if they can't fight the facts they're going to claim bias on the behalf of the investigators. the whistle-blower's original claim has been corroborated.

>> not just on the phone call but the matter of policy that's come out and one person that may be concerned about is john bolton. one way or the other, his story will come out. etches subpoenaed to appear in congress, he didn't appear, citing white house objections. concerns over a lengthy court process. bolton's attorney writes house democrats that he was dismayed, saying there needed to be clarity of this momentous constitutional question. and then he added this. bolton was personally involved in many of the events, meetings about which you already received testimony as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far. now parts of it have already come out fiona hill. he said bolton told her, quote, you go and tell john eisenberg i'm not part of whatever drug deal sondland and mulvaney are cooking up on this and you go ahead and tell him what i've

heard and what i've said. former and current senior officials say bolton probably has more detail than any other impeachment witness and it may come out in other ways soon. the ap was first to report that he signed a book deal with a $2 million advance set to come out before the election. talk about a guy's lawyer who is telegraphing to the committee like this guy has something to say. help us make the case. >> me, me, me. >> right? yet the democrats don't want to go into this court process. are they making a mistake here, foregoing bolton's testimony for expediency and testimony from the bureaucratic and professional witnesses? >> let's say if john bolton has these details, just testify. no one is actually stopping him from doing so. yes, the democrats perhaps are making a strategic error here. they obviously feel like they have a lot already. bolton, i think, considered by many could be potentially their

star witness. it's not just what he can say. he is a voracious notetaker, perhaps because he was taking notes to write his book but he carries a lot of respect in conservative circles. he will not be able to be pai painted as a deep-state actor, biased against the president. now from trump he will say he's a disgruntled employee. >> nobody liked him. >> that's the argument he can make but republican senators at the end of the day will have this president's fate in his hands, are we to get to an impeachment trial, that they've known for a long time, like and respect and won't be able to dismiss his testimony. >> adrienne, how concerned should the president be? >> i think he should be very

concerned. that's why he has been unhinged more than usual, tweeting up a storm this past weekend. >> 33 tweets at one point. >> crazy, right? he knows john bolton is very well respected, as jonathan said, in conservative circles. he was also in a lot of key meetings, taking notes. he is a wild card here. nobody knows what he's going to do. i think it's smart that adam schiff and the democrats aren't putting him up in the first week. we don't know what he is going to say. we have ideas, given that the the hints his attorney has given, that he may be willing to spill the beans. but the three witnesses that the democrats are putting up this week are reliable, credible. they're long-time public servants. they bring a lot to the table. john bolton at the end of the day is a partisan republican. i'm sure he will come up at some point and it will be fascinating to see how this plays out. >> second hour of "kasie d.c.."

nikki haley saying she rejected a plan hatch bid former top aides to save the country by undermining the president. first, a live interview with candidate julian castro. we'll talk about whether hunter biden should testify before congress like republicans want and a whole lot more. d a whole e here and even here? with new bounce rapid touch up spray, you can fight wrinkles anywhere. spray smooth and you're fresh and ready to go wherever you are. new bounce rapid touch up spray. bounce out wrinkles anywhere. are all non-gmo, sundown vitamins made with naturally sourced colors and flavors and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean all the time. even if sometimes we're not.

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presidential candidate and hud secretary julian castro. thank you joining us. appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule for this conversation. we are on the brisk of an historic week in washington with the public impeachment hearings. what do you expect to happen? what do democrats have to do? >> well, for democrats, this is about letting the evidence speak for itself. this is the public part of the hearings that republicans have been asking for and i think anybody who has been following this knows that the minute this becomes public and the american people have the opportunity to see and hear the evidence with their own eyes and ears, it's just going to get worse and worse for president trump because the witnesses that have come forward, from what we can tell, are very convincing. they seem very truthful. and i think that's what the american public is going to get this week. it's just going to get worse and

worse for donald trump and for republicans who are senselessly standing by him at this point. >> are you at all, sir, as somebody who is running for president when you are watching this week concerned about how it plays out and becomes an issue for the democratic primary that, it may become a liability for the candidates, given that the president has wanted to run against impeachment in 2020? >> i don't believe so. i'm confident that the american people, when they hear the evidence that's presented in these hearings -- already we can see that more and more people are supportive of impeachment and removal and for good reason. it's clear that this president violated his oath of office, that he has abused his power, that he tried to get a foreign country to do his political dirty work, quid pro quo confirmed by his own chief of

staff and other witnesses in this process. i'm not worried about it at all. i think people can still tell right from wrong. >> before we move on to other topics, house republicans have requested to hear testimony from hunter biden. is it important to hear from him, to make democrats this case and put doubts aside? >> i don't think so. that's a distraction. and that's something that the president and, you know, his team are trying to do to distract the american people. hunter biden was not an elected official. hunter biden is not the one who was sitting in the oval office, asking another country to do his political dirty work in order to get military aid and abusing his oath of office. that's donald trump. that's the person that needs to be the focus of these hearings, because he is the one who committed an impeachable offense. i don't think it's necessary for hunter biden to testify at all. >> let me ask you about senator elizabeth warren. she was asked in iowa -- excuse

me, she was asked if iowa and new hampshire should be moved on the primary schedule. listen to her response before i get your answer, sir. >> speaking about racial injustice, do you think the order of the primary states should change? you have iowa and new hampshire -- >> wait. before you finish, are you actually going to ask me to sit here and criticize iowa and new hampshire? >> i'm going to ask the order. they're two of the whitest states in the country and then we move to south carolina, with a very significant population of people of color. and it means the candidates spend so much of their time catering to those first two states. overall, do you think that should change? >> i'm just a player in the game on this one. and i am delighted to be in south carolina. thank you. >> sir, wanted to get your

response to that. what do you make of her answer and whether or not you think iowa and new hampshire should be moved out of that order? >> well, you know, senator warren certainly has done a good job, i think, of reaching out to different communities in the course of this campaign. i've been very impressed with the work she's done in the african-american community and the latino community and certainly understand what she's saying when she says those of us who are running, you're sort of at the mercy of what the rules are in terms of who is going first. iowa, new hampshire and so forth. i actually believe that we do need to change the order of the states, because i don't believe that we're the same country we were in 1972. that's when iowa first held its caucus first. and by the time we had the next presidential election in 2024, it will have been more than 50 years since 1972.

our country has changed a lot in those 50 years. the democratic party has changed a lot. what i really appreciate about iowans and the folks of new hampshire is that they take this process very seriously. they vet the candidates, show up at town halls. they give the people a good hearing. same time, demographical ly, its not reflective of the united states as a whole, certainly not reflective of the demographic party and other states should have their chance. so yes, of course, we need to find other states. that doesn't mean that iowa and new hampshire can't still play a role but i don't think we should be forever married to iowa and new hampshire going first and that's the truth of the way i see it. >> speaking of demographics, i understand you're expected to meet with migrant families, separated and those at risk. that's supposed to be the same day the supreme court will hear

arguments to determine if the president has the authority to end the program. what are you expecting and what do you want to see happen? >> we want to highlight on tuesday the fear that so many people in this country are lisk in. i'm going to accompany a gentleman who is going to go to his i.c.e. check-in and request that he can stay here in the united states. we want to make sure i.c.e. understands he has a lot of support. but he's one person. there are thousands and thousands of people in his situation. what i'm hoping is that not only will the supreme court uphold daca after it's heard the arguments and releases -- hands down its opinion but in the next couple of years, especially in january of 2021 when we have a new president, that we'll have the opportunity to protect daca recipients, their parents and

all undocumented immigrants who are here, who have not committed a serious crime, to put them on the pathway to citizenship. that is overdue. we need to move with urgency to do it. >> let me get your final thoughts on potentially another presidential candidate, new york mayor michael bloomberg, filing the paperwork to enter the 2020 presidential primary in alabama. your opponents have had some pretty strong reaction to this news. what do you have to say to michael bloomberg and what he potentially represents within the democratic party? >> well, look, there's no question that michael bloomberg has been a very successful businessman. he was, you know, a mayor of the largest city in our country and did some good things while he was there. he also did some things i think he would have to explain on the campaign trail. for instance, stop and frisk. i don't think that it's going to be smooth sailing for mike bloomberg if he gets into a democratic primary. it's also interesting, and

democratic voters would have to decide whether you want to put a lot of stock into somebody who was a democrat and then a republican and now an independent and wants to become a democrat again all within the span of two decades. that's really for the voters to decide. if anybody thinks this 16-person race or if he enters it, 17-person race, is an easy one, it's not. i agree with some of the things that senator sanders and representative ocasio-cortez has said. it's funny all of a sudden when these billionaires feel threatened then they want to jump into this presidential race and spend their millions and millions of dollars trying to buy ads and influence their support in the polls and climb in the democratic primary race. i don't believe that's the way democracy should work. i don't think one person who is worth billions should just be

able to jump into the presidential race, late as it is, and basically buy their way into contention. to me, that doesn't seem like the kind of country that we should be. if he does get into the race, though, i look forward to the conversation. he is a sharp person. he has good experience. we'll see what the voters think. >> secretary julian castro, thank you for joining us with your insights this evening. appreciate your time. >> nikki haley speaks out and calls out rex tillerson and john kelly. first, what lessons can democrats learn about the results of tuesday's election, especially when it comes to the suburbs? dave wasserman joins me live with all of that, next. me live with all of that, next ♪ limu emu & doug

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what we're seeing with the suburbs, though, is they are rejecting the socialist agenda of the democratic party. when have you an elizabeth warren or joe biden talking about giving free health care to illegal immigrants, talking about having a government takeover of health care that's where we're getting those voters back. >> that was ronna mcdaniel, rnc

chair. "the new york times" reports, quotes, for the second election day in as many years, suburban voters demonstrated enormous political power in electing or aiding democratic candidates in historically republican areas, underscoring the drift of many moderate voters from the gop in the era of president trump. dave wasserman. great to have you with us, dave. first, let me get your thoughts on suburban voters and their impacts generally speaking. do you think it's a sign of the gop weakening in the suburbs? >> president trump killed off what used to be an entire generation in suburbs like fairfax county, verirginia. on tuesday, democrats' gains were biggest across those middle to upper, cincinnati, washington, d.c., richmond. there were some warning signs as

well for democrats. african-american turnout was weaker than they hoped in mississippi and we saw republicans pick up some ground in western pennsylvania and local races but overall it painted a pretty clear portrait of where democrats' opportunity lies next fall. >> new polling published by cook and the kaiser foundation in upper to midwest swing states i believe. talk to me about the big differences between democratic voters' views and those of swing voters, particularly when it comes to progressive platforms. >> yeah. you know, one reason why president trump's chances of winning re-election are better than his approval rating of 41% are that democrats are likely going to nominate either someone who has advocated for positions that are unpopular with the broader electorate like medicare for all and banning fracking,

for example. 57% of voters in pennsylvania, they oppose banning fracking, which is something that warren and several other candidates have advocated. they would nominate someone who is opposed by a big section of the party for opposing some of those propositions that those more liberal candidates have advocated. democrats will have to find a way to balance their ticket. one thing that i can predict is that democrats really need someone who can win over enough of those anti-elite voters in places like western pennsylvania. there's not much appetite in the party right now for someone like michael bloomberg. and i think that will be very clear by the time we're eating turkey and stuffing. >> the potential that michael bloomberg does not appeal to suburban democratic voters, perhaps ooh even in the general as well as the primary, if the party is pushed more to the

progressive wing among sanders and warren supporters, adrienne elrod, are suburban voters. >> absolutely. we didn't do so well with suburban voters in 2016, but democrats did in 2018 and the off year going into the on year of 2020 this year, 2019, significantly with well as dave just mentioned in virginia, kentucky and some of the down-ballot races. they'll be critical. interesting thing to look at when it comes to michael bloomberg. he has unlimited resources. he made it very clear he's not going to play in the first four states, focusing on super tuesday states. he will have an advantage when it comes to advertising dollars. he has a whole philanthropic organization with a lot of former campaign staff working in a number of different organizations, climate change organizations, gun safety, who can literally put on to a different payroll, his campaign

payroll and deploy to super tuesday. even if voters are saying i don't want to support michael bloomberg, he's not my cup of tea, once he sees this infusion of what i assume will be a heavy amount of advertising dollars going into some of those key markets that no other presidential candidate right now can really afford to spend money on. if you're joe biden you're sitting on $8.5 million, you have to rely on your name i.d. and the long-term relationships you have with voters out there in order to do well. i think that will carry him very far. my point is, you have to factor in the fact that he has a lot of money and resources that he will be spending in these super tuesday states. >> let me get your thoughts about concerns in the suburbs. it's not all rosie. particularly in states like mississippi, african-american turnout remains weak. talk me through this. how concerned should democrats be in states like mississippi,

alabama, potentially south carolina that they cannot get enough african-american voters to tip this one way or another? >> democrats have an opportunity to turn this around in louisiana in a couple of days. next saturday there will be a run-off there. democrats are optimistic about the early vote numbers among african-americans so far. but it's clear that the two most critical blocks next far for democrats are going to be winning a critical mass of nonevangelical, noncollege suburban women, bucs county, pennsylvania, or outside pittsburgh, and also generating high african-american turnout, a struggle in the postobama era. democrats probably need someone on the ticket who will excite african-american voters. if joe biden is the nominee, maybe stays abrams makes sense. >> good point. dave wasserman on that. we'll leave it there.

thank you tore adrienne elrod as well. appreciate your time. nikki haley says two of the president's former advisers tried to recruit her to undermine the president but she wasn't playing along. amy klobuchar at the laugh factory. >> i'm from the midwest, so i really see this as a heart of my campaign. >> we're going to build a blue wall. >> a blue wall. >> blue wall. >> wall. >> blue. >> wall. >> blue wall. >> and we're going to make donald trump pay for it. >> donald trump is going to pay for it. >> i'm going to make donald trump pay for it. >> guess what, donald trump is going to pay for it. we have a president that is running this country like a game show. >> game show. >> game show. >> game show. >> i am tired of this game of whack-a-mole. >> i, for one, am tired of a whiner in the white house. we don't want a whiner in the white house. he likes to govern by tweet at 5:00 in the morning in his bath robe. >> all foam and no beer.

>> all foam and no beer. all foam and no beer. tariffs. he has been using them like a meat cleaver. maybe a better word is tweet cleaver. it's not just like going home and bringing a hot dish to the dictator next door. he used the word meddle. that's what i do when i call my daughter on a saturday night and ask what she's doing. this was much more serious than that. what's the difference between donald trump and greenland? greenland's not for sale. s not . [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches! wait, what? said she's gonna need crutches. she fell pretty hard. you might want to clean that up, girl. excuse us. when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. -donny, no. -oh. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh.

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in a new memoir, former ambassador to the united nations nikki haley claims that former secretary of state rex tillerson and white house chief of staff john kelly tried to recruit her to undermine the president. confiding in me that when they resisted the president they weren't being insubordinate, they were trying to save the country. haley also wrote that tillerson confi told her that people would die if trump were unchecked. >> it should have been go tell the president what your differences are and quit if you don't like what he's doing. but to undermine a president is really a very dangerous thing. and it goes against the

constitution. and it goes against what the american people want and it was offensive. >> nick confessore is here. yes, there's a book out but what's the bigger message of the story she's trying to sell? >> you want to see an example of a politician skillfully having it both ways, that's your example right there. she's signaling that she's part of these discussions but she was the loyal one. she doesn't answer the question or say if she agreed with them and there was something that had to be checked. she's saying take it to the president. be principle. she's very good at this, which is why she's been able to stay an ex-trumper who he speaks well of still and still be regarded as a potential challenge to him down the line. it's quite a trick. >> the president has tweeted out in support of her. >> the president's book club. >> i like that. jonathan, nikki haley, in talking about this also, though,

underscores something you folks in washington know a lot better than i do, that there were rumblings inside the administration among his most senior, most important advisers, that they needed to interfere and possibly do something to prevent this president from creating the chaos that we've kind of witnessed. >> sure. it's a pervasive story line with this new book coming out from anonymous. >> right. >> ambassador haley, as nick said, tries to have it both ways here. first of all the question was raised, did she bring this to the president, that members of his own staff were perhaps trying to undermine him? that's a question we need an answer for at some point. but she does seem like, at least for now, tying herself more closely to president trump than a potential republican party post-president trump, were he to lose this time around. she is at least for now banking on his good graces and probably got the best oval office send-off of anyone who left his administration, remains popular and also continues to be

speculation, though the president has denied publicly, that vice president pence might not be on this ticket a year from now. no one thinks that's likely but there's been chatter. >> she is positioning herself for that opportunity. >> correct, that the vice president is maybe an 11th hour play and were the president to do that that ambassador haley would be an excellent choice, because of her appeal with s suburban women where this president has really suffered. haley herself now has a couple of different times brought it up, the idea of joining the ticket, to dismiss it. every time she brings it up, it gets more attention. >> classic d.c. tactic. nick, some reporting coming out in your newspaper about rudy giuliani. one of the associates he's been involved with also indicted, willing to speak to investigators about rudy giuliani instructing him to, in fact, say to the ukrainians there would be no attendance by vice president mike pence if

ukraine doesn't come out and deliver on promise to investigate corruption with the bidens and the elections of 2016. what is rudy giuliani's implication in all of this? he has become vulnerable by the day. >> yes, absolutely. look, this is our first flipper of the impeachment. second if you count sondland flipping on himself and changing the testimony. >> right. >> lev parnas, the man in question, has said he was dispatched to ukraine to deliver a message in advance of the president's inauguration to say this is what has to happen. this is a message from rudy giuliani himself. it's important to point out that some people have denied this, and giuliani has rebutted it. it is the first person to start pulling giuliani directly into this message relaying. >> and it seems, we'll see, if the president begins to distance himself from rudy giuliani at some point. thank you for joining us for the hour tonight.

when we return, how much has technology exchanged the way presidential campaigns collect your voter data? ali vitale joins us on set with her reporting from the trail. all of that next on "kasie d.c.." "kasie d.c.." my joints... they hurt. the pain and swelling. the tenderness. the psoriasis. i had to find something that worked on all of this. i found cosentyx. now, watch me. real people with active psoriatic arthritis are getting real relief with cosentyx. it's a different kind of targeted biologic. cosentyx treats more than just the joint pain of psoriatic arthritis. it even helps stop further joint damage. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms. if your inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may occur.

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that can lead to death. ibrance may cause severe inflammation of the lungs that can lead to death. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including trouble breathing, shortness of breath, cough, or chest pain. before taking ibrance, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection, liver or kidney problems, are pregnant, breastfeeding, or plan to become pregnant. common side effects include low red blood cell and low platelet counts, infections, tiredness, nausea, sore mouth, abnormalities in liver blood tests, diarrhea, hair thinning or loss, vomiting, rash, and loss of appetite. be in your moment. ask your doctor about ibrance. old-school campaigning has gotten a boost from cutting-edge technology. just like so much else these days, you could say there are apps for that as well. here is nbc's political reporter

ali vitale. >> hi. >> hi. >> are you jen? >> you can't win the voters you don't identify. here with cory booker's campaign in iowa, she is meeting jan, who she sort of already knows. >> are you still pretty undecide ed? >> pretty undecided. >> okay. >> reporter: organizers know the fundamentals before they even walk up to the door, party affiliation, basic they voted lt election. but if they have been in touch before, they may know the issues you lean towards most. today, though, it is the first contact. >> hopefully we contact. >> maybe from undecided to lean booker to caucus. >> starts. >> yeah. >> we did the whole street. synced into the campaign's databases. uploaded in real-time. >> that's the perk of apps like this one called minivan, which aims to maximize organizer's to

fishsy. >> we used to print out this giant lists. each sheet was a section of a street of, you know, the list of people who doors we were going to go knock. >> other apps take the organizer mantra of meeting voters where they are more literally. >> do you mind if i ask you just a couple questions. >> elizabeth's warren's team is engaging voters in high traffic areas using an app called reach. >> here you are. amazing. >> this was built by an organizer on this campaign to try to capture unexpected run-ins with could be supporters. >> without a tool like this, you might never be able to talk to that person again. >> you just met someone on the street. what happens? >> i am going to pull this up and see, for example, that she is voting for elizabeth warren. i could add in contact

information. >> it's been changing politics for a while now. >> can you explain what internet is? >> the internet paid off big for howard dean, who used it to raise thousands of small dollar donations from supporters. >> there is no telling if the internet can help dean win the nomination, but many believe it is creating new strategies for future campaigns. >> then there was barack obama, using youtube and in terms of reaching young voters through social media. >> if you get on our website barackobama.com and find out where to vote. >> senator ted cruz meet out his gop competitors in part by spending millions targeting voters. down to their psychological profile. that same cycle bernie sanders launched his own app, a version of which they are still using now. >> if everyone could download something called the burn app. >> now it is all about knowing

where your volt ters are and canvassing smart. and now tap by tap. >> all right. on to the next. all right. joining us here onset, off the campaign trail for a few minutes to join us. we appreciate it. where does the data go? walk us through this. i think the first question people have is that's scarey that you can collect this much information. what happens to that data and does it get shared among the entire party in the general election? >> so all of the campaigns both on the campaign side of it and then the platforms they're actually operating on, all of them assure this is not information that's being shared widely outside of the campaign. there are log-ins and things that keep it proprietary within the campaign. but remember basically what they're working off of is the voter file, which is public. the question is what the campaigns that are able to do with that. what information can they add? they have the babasics, your

gender, your address, if you voted in the last election cycle. but what else can they gleam from you so when they get to that persuasion period that ie'i they're trying to pick up as many voters as they can. >> there was a staffer that got fired this week for, i guess, some wrongdoing involving kamala harris' campaign. >> a guy who worked for the south carolina democratic party went over and downloaded some information before leaving about the kamala harris campaign and the campaign is basically saying they alerted the party in real-time and that's why it was stopped. but it's that proprietary information that's so valuable here. >> all right. thank you so much. good luck on the campaign trail. we'll see you soon. all right. we're back after this quick break with the kasie dvr. stay with us. and the gastroenterologists who developed it. align naturally helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24/7.

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the public hearings are set to begin and three witnesses who testified behind closed doors will do so in public. >> devin nunes says he would like to call the whistleblower to testify. >> why would you reveal the whistleblower when you are supposed to have protections? >> the whistleblower has great risk associated with his life right now. >> i would love to hear from hunter biden. >> he has no knowledge of what the president did or didn't do here. >> if you can't call hunt eer biden and you can't call the

whistleblower, that's a sham. >> to prevent the republicans from calling their own witnesses is just doubling down on stupid. >> a growing number of witnesses testifying before congress have now confirmed that military aid was being withheld. >> have you been reading the transcripts? >> i have been reading the reports of them. the about chum trctual transcrit seen it. >> any lawyer knows a sterile transcript is no substitute for eye witnesses. >> if there was a quid pro quo, is that an impeachable offense? >> i believe it was inappropriate. i don't believe it is impeachable. >> you are going to impeach a president for asking for a favor that didn't happen. >> they're all basically admitting there was a quid pro quo, but, gosh, it wasn't that bad. >> the president of the united states talked about draining the swamp and he became part of it. >> all right. that's the kasie dvr. that does it tonight for us on kasie d.c. thanks to uncle murray for

watching tonight. we are back with you next week from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. eastern. up next, "impeachment: white house in crisis." ari takes a look at what's next for president trump. for now, good night from new york. good evening. i'm ari. welcome back to "impeachment: white house in crisis." tonight we have new reporting on how this week's public hearings could impact the impeachment process with key aids reversing their testimony to confirm the ukraine bribery plot. we will kick things off with a special panel. we have the democrat's point person on impeachment. how adam schiff has led the last impeachment trial in the u.s. senate. did you know that? plus, we will be joined by one of the nation's top experts on the constitution. but first right now going public in donald trump's impeachment. >> we will