"the washington post" hosting the next democratic debate. it will be live from the tyler perry studios in atlanta, georgia, moderated by our own andrea mitchell and rachel maddow. kristen well confer and ashley parker. next wednesday 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that's going to wrap up this hour for me. i'm chris jansing. ali velshi will be back tomorrow. thank you for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. ♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york as the impeachment proceedings into donald trump threaten to consume his presidency. the public phase of that effort and the investigative aspect of the impeachment process are now speeding down two parallel tracks. the second public hearing is underway at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning while the closed-door investigative track of the impeachment proceedings presses on gaining new steam with yesterday's dramatic revelation from ambassador bill taylor about a previously unknown phone

conversation between donald trump and his ambassador to the e.u. in which trump asks specifically about the investigations. >> in the presence of my staff at a restaurant ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kiev. the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden which giuliani was pressing for. >> so taylor didn't identify the aid who reported the call in that testimony. but two sources tell nbc new it's was a state department official named david holmes. holmes will talk to lawmakers behind closed doors tomorrow. and just this afternoon we

learned holmes wasn't the only one who overheard that call. the "associated press" was first to report there is a second official from the u.s. embassy in kiev who also witnessed sondland speaking to trump over the phone in a restaurant in ukraine. that's according to an official familiar with the matter. also emerging today a clear picture of the battle lines that have been drawn. house speaker nancy pelosi saying today she sees evidence of bribery. >> bribery. that is in the constitution attached to the impeachment proceedings. >> so what was the bribe here? >> the bribe is to grant or withhold military assistance in return for a public statement of a fake investigation into the elections. i am saying that what the president has admitted to and says it's perfect, i said it's perfectly wrong, it's bribery.

>> and it's as the republicans were watching something else entirely. their defense seeming to land on a case about the witness's proximity to the misconduct. >> in any event it's more second-hand information. >> second-hand, third-hand, and even fourth-hand rumors. >> second, third, fourth-hand, things like that. >> second, third, fourth or fifth-hand knowledge. >> you got to give them credit for their talking point distribution methods. the problem though with that defense of the president is that it has an expiration date and a hefty dose of hypocrisy. next week witnesses with first-hand knowledge of the president's conduct and statements will testify publicly. alexander vindman was on the july 25th call. gordon sondland spoke with donald trump repeatedly and may have been the one who carried out his wish for that quid pro quo. fiona hill was party to several meetings that lay at the heart of the impeachment investigation. not to mention the reason that more witnesses with first-hand knowledge haven't been before the committees is because the president won't allow them to.

it's something our friend neal katyal calls an additional impeachable offense writing this. quote, while the ukraine allegations have rightly captured the attention of congress and much of the public, mr. trump's effort to hinder the house investigation of him is at least as great a threat to the rule of law. it strikes at the heart of american democracy and is itself the essence of an impeachable offense. that is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with us from the white house jonathan lemire from the "associated press." former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul. former federal prosecutor for the southern and eastern districts of new york, barrett berger. ben rhodes and elise jordan. jonathan lemire, let me start with you and what the ap is reporting about a second witness to that call between sondland and donald trump who among other problems with it sounds like it

wasn't secure at all. >> reporter: right. yesterday in many ways the breakout piece of news, if you will, was the revelation of this phone call from ambassador taylor. he vealed it yesterday in the hearing saying that one of his aides overheard it. that aid will now be testifying behind closed doors in the next couple of days. the ap has been able to report that a second diplomatic staffer was also present at the time, overheard the call and has verified the same contents. so what this does, it is a significant step here. that much more closely ties the president to this effort to shake down ukraine to threaten to withhold the military aid unless it cooperates with his desire to investigate. that's the word he used, investigate, joe biden and his family under the guise of corruption but really for his political purpose. >> it also shows the weaknesses with the republican posture. this is a live investigation. every deposition, every day of

witness testimony depending on the line of questioning could yield new evidence like this. it sort of reveals the holes in the lack of a white house war room or a lack of a white house strategy that when there is a new witness, they are still flat-footed. >> reporter: we saw that yesterday how scattershot the republican efforts at defense were. the minority ranking minority member nunes yesterday delving into conspiracy theories born from the fever swamps of the extreme right. the reporting that we've done here in the last day or so, the president is frustrated. he thought that yesterday he wished his republican allies on the hill had defended his actions not just trying to push back on the process of the matter. you know, he of course the white house has been spinning this, the trump campaign as well, suggesting that, you know, there really was nothing new yesterday. of course that's not true

because of that phone call but suggesting that they don't believe this will have changed the minds of any republican senators. it's only day one. there are plenty more revelations to come. and this is a white house that from the beginning of this inquiry has been caught flat-footed, has not been able to sort of organize a coherent defense, and there is no war room. they are relying simply on the president and his twitter account. just behind me marine one touched down a few minutes ago. the president will soon be leaving the white house on his way to louisiana for a rally. he tried to project yesterday that he was above the fray and meeting with the leader of turkey in order to pay attention to the hearings, although his twitter account would say otherwise. when he leaves here he will offer his thoughts on the matter. >> ambassador mcfaul above the fray is not often a place where donald trump is found. as jonathan lemire i think has underscored, this was the new fact entered into evidence, if you will, in the quarter public

opinion. it is another contact between the person running the off-book, the dark op. that person has a name. it's donald trump. and one of his operatives on the ground. that person has a name too, gordon sondland, his ambassador to the e.u. now, unpack for us some of what you and i talked about yesterday, some of what i know you tweeted about. there are problems with this call between the person running the scheme and the person carrying it out in ukraine. but about fourth or fifth on the list is the fact that it took place in a restaurant on a cell phone, right? >> well, let's separate out substance from process. on the substantive piece, remember the president of the united states just talked to the president of ukraine the day before. you know, why does he need an update just one day later from his operative on the ground if it's talking about u.s./ukrainian policy? obviously he is checking in with his lieutenant on the ground to see if the ukrainian government has delivered on the

investigations that he wanted. why does he need an update from, you know, presidential aid yermak in ukraine? he is the president of the united states. he's got a lot going on. the substantive piece that shows that the president was intimately involved in what they were doing. another process piece, let's just be clear, you make any call on an unclassified cell phone in ukraine, that means vladimir putin has the transcript. i hope they didn't talk about anything compromising in that call. and the fact that he would sit there in front of -- >> can i just stop you? is there anything more compromising than holding military aid over an american ally for dirt on the bidens? >> maybe they wanted putin to he hear that. i don't know. i'm trying to be generous here. we do have secure coms at the embassy. if ambassador sond wanted to call the -- he chose not to do that. but even talking about it in

front of other diplomats, one of whom i know by the way, served with me in moscow. incredibly sloppy. it just underscores that mr. sondland is way over his skis, way above his pay grade in what he was doing here. >> and, you know, ben, gordon sondland's use of insecure communications is something i've heard from lawyers representing other witnesses in impeachment proceeding that he handed out cell phone numbers that nsc phones at least when i was there, don't take or receive text messages for obvious reasons. he was using all sorts of electronic communications. because of the volume business of transgressions, we don't often focus on what would in a normal white house be a mega scandal. a president calling an ambassador right on the border of russia and making a call that vladimir putin could obviously hear. >> yeah. and let's just unpack why this is important. first of all we know the russians have this call. and if people want to know if they want to relive something

that was very painful for me at the time, we had a diplomat who was in ukraine on a cell phone having a phone call. that phone call was recorded by the russians and released on youtube channels by the russians. so they have this. and just think about what that means. they are currently in possession of evidence of impeachable offenses by donald trump. >> wasn't mike flynn fired for the same kind of thing or less than that? >> well, among other things. >> but sally yates said he could be a target. >> exactly. so once again vladimir putin is sitting there with compromising material on the president of the united states that he could leverage. donald trump knows in the back of his head that the recording of that phone call could turn up on a russian youtube channel at any time. that is very damaging to u.s. national security. it also suggests the pattern, right? another important thing about this impeachment that we have to recognize is what it tells about

all of our foreign relations. is this the norm of doing business? is this kind of a corrupt quid pro quo approach to how we do business? we have every reason to believe that this is something that donald trump does regularly, engage in casual conversations about sensitive matters on nonsecure cell phones. how many compromising transcripts do the russians and the chinese and others potentially have on this president? and the last thing that i can't help but say, nicole, is his whole campaign in 2016 was about the mishandling of classified information, about this email serv server that hillary clinton that, and he cared so much about it that he made it the centerpiece of his campaign. i am waiting for the republican outrage that they directed toward the clinton private email server to be directed towards the fact that vladimir putin has sensitive and compromising information from the president of the united states. >> it's sort of like the audacity of the hope to the audacity of a dope. why does he do this? is it ignorance?

is it willful sharing of information with vladimir putin? what gives? >> well, i don't know the answer to that question. but i think ben's onto something important. this is just what we know. think about all the telephone calls that we don't know that are being done on the president's cell phone. we don't actually know what phone ambassador sondland called. i would like to know that. i hope we will find out that in testimony tomorrow. and i also just want to keep underscoring how unusual it is for any ambassador, eaven ones that know the president well to be calling the president of the united states under any circumstances. that usually only happens under crises. when i was a u.n. ambassador in russia, i never called president obama once in a one on one telephone call. i knew the guy pretty well. i had worked for him for three years with ben at the white house. that suggests to me the intimacy of their relationship and the priority of this quote, unquote, drug deal as the national security adviser called it, to the president of the united states. >> let's deal with some of the

evidence that this sort of puts into the public record. and this is one of the ways where it's just so extraordinarily different from the mueller probe because we are learning the evidence at the same time that the investigators are. so the "associated press" broke this story. "the washington post" has since confirmed it saying that a second diplomatic staffer also at the table. they name that staffer. he is a foreign service officer based in kiev. he was also briefed on what sondland and the president were talking about. can we talk about that as a piece of evidence as well as sondland as a witness and perhaps someone who may now have some legal exposure himself? >> well, sondland definitely has some exposure here depending on what his prior testimony was. it'll be really interesting when we see him next week to see how this affects his testimony and what ways it differs from what he testified to in these depositions. i think having a second witness here is even more compelling. one of the hardest things in an investigation is to get a sense of somebody's intent. what were they thinking while something was going on.

unless you actually have that person sitting in the chair, it's often times hard. what this call and two people now who have overheard this really shows us is donald trump's intent. what was he similarngularly foc on? i think these are two incredibly important witnesses that could have valuable information. >> if you watch the way this case is coming together, if what the ap and "the washington post" are reporting about a second witness, it would appear that any effort to be part of a cover-up for donald trump at least at the state department is off or it's one only being participated in by mike pompeo. >> or gordon sondland. is gordon sondland going to try to keep to his earlier statements which he did adjust but it seems that he's got a little bit more adjusting to do when he comes before congress next wednesday. to ben's point about the

information security environment, if donald trump was having casual phone calls with gordon sondland, do you think that he spoke to rudy giuliani when rudy giuliani was on the ground in ukraine doing his brokering and machinations? this ripple effect. as we see these very state department witnesses come forward, the state department witnesses i think are the most damning form because they are so steady and level. and they are skilled in how -- in their delivery. they are skilled in not crossing the lines of offense. this is what they are trained to do. so as these witnesses just essentially pile up, it becomes much harder for republicans to claim the second, third, fourth talking point. >> jonathan lemire, it brings me back to all of donald trump's conduct during the mueller probe around pardons. he dangled pardons. we know it was something that mueller investigated for mike

flynn and paul manafort. give me a countdown until you think he is willing to dangle a pardon in front of gordon sondland if he defies a congressional subpoena? he is clearly, at least in the realm of possibility that there is some concern he may have perjured himself? we had this new piece of evidence from ambassador taylor's testimony, a new witness scheduled tomorrow, your news organization testifying to a second witness to that call. i mean, how long do you think until donald trump starts tweeting about pardons? >> let's start the countdown clock now. we can put it in the corner of the screen and go from there. >> i wish i knew how to do that. >> before the hour's up, let's get on that. it is surprising we haven't heard that chatter yet. in our reporting we haven't at this point. but that's a path he went down during the russia investigation. i don't think he would surprise many people if he were to --

again this is certainly a white house who is in a crisis mode here. there are divisions and a feud that has broken out between the white house counsel and the acting chief of staff mulvaney. mulvaney certainly has caught the president's iron last week press conference that he had in which he sort of owned up to the quid pro quo and said that it was a common occurrence. this is a president who, you know, has still been frustrated with the lack of support he's received from other republicans, including some yesterday. there were higher hopes in the building behind me for how the lawmakers would do trying to tear down these two witnesses. just go back to that for a moment between kent and taylor. these were not people you can categorize as never-trumpers or deep state operatives. thes public officials, career civil servants who have worked under republicans and democrats with impeccable reputations. those are hard people to scapegoat. >> and i think between the two

of them they had served more republican presidents than democrats. when we come back, tomorrow's witness in the impeachment hearings into donald trump is the ambassador donald trump remov removed and suggested would, quote, go through some things. it's a threat that concerns her today still. what to expect when america's former ambassador to ukraine testifies tomorrow, and who should be worried about that. also ahead, donald trump rolls out the red carpet for the turkish president after greenlighting a military operation that left america's closest allies in the fight against isis stranded. it's the latest exhibit of trump the autocrat groupie. and he becomes the 18th candidate for the democratic dominance for president. he's here to explain what he explains as his hail marry decision. all those stories coming up. gimme one minute... and i'll tell you some important things to know about medicare. first, it doesn't pay for everything.

say this pizza is your part b medical expenses. this much - about 80% - medicare will pay for. what's left is on you. that's where an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company comes in. this type of plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. these are the only plans to carry the aarp endorsement for meeting their high standards of quality and service. so call unitedhealthcare insurance company today and ask for your free decision guide. with this type of plan, you'll have the freedom to choose any doctor who accepts medicare patients. and when you travel, your plan will go with you - anywhere in the country. whew! call unitedhealthcare today and ask for your free decision guide.

call unitedhealthcare today that's it. i'm calling kohler about their walk-in bath. [ sigh ] not gonna happen. my name is ken. how may i help you? hi, i'm calling about kohler's walk-in bath. excellent! happy to help.

huh? hold one moment please. [ finger snaps ] hmm. the kohler walk-in bath features an extra-wide opening and a low step-in at three inches, which is 25 to 60% lower than some leading competitors. the bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. are you seeing this? the kohler walk-in bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohler-certified installer. and it's made by kohler- america's leading plumbing brand. we need this bath. yes. yes you do. a kohler walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. call... for a free kohler® nightlight toilet seat with in-home quote or visit kohlerwalkinbath.com for more info.

i had a very good call with the president of ukraine. i assume that's what you're talking about. the call was perfect. >> the whole call that i made with the president of ukraine was a perfect one. >> a perfect phone call, a totally perfect phone call. the phone call was perfect. a perfect call. my phone call was perfecto. it was totally appropriate. >> perfect-o, not just perfect. ever since the ukraine scandal first exploded in the public view and up until yesterday that's been donald trump's central defense that there was nothing wrong with his july 25th call with ukrainian president zelensky that it was pompeerfec.

that's because marie yovanovitch the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine will appear on capitol hill to testify publicly tomorrow. and she dramatically and clearly expands the timeline of that pressure campaign in ukraine bringing into focus the plotting, the scheming, the dirty tricks, the irregular policy process, all of that in place underway well oiled, well before that july 25th perfecto call. that campaign clouincludes a diplomacy effort, that for the most part worked in opposition to long-standing u.s. policy in ukraine. yovanovitch will also address concerns of ukrainian officials who felt pressure to intervene in u.s. politics if they wanted to stay on food terms with mr. trump as well as a campaign to falsely discredit her because of fears that she'd stand in their way. it's worth pointing out that yovanovitch who said in a closed door testimony last month that she still feels threatened to this day because of smears

against her character by the president of the united states is a career foreign service officer who served more than three decades under six administrations, four of them republican. joining our conversation "new york times" political reporter nick confessori. ambassador mcfaul is still with us. nick, what do you make of -- sort of look at the battle lines that have been drawn. nancy pelosi turning up the volume really just sharpening the lines accusing donald trump of bribery today and tying that back to what impeachment is there for. and the democrats still sort of scrambling. but here you've got tomorrow one of the actual victims of the campaign. >> on the first part i think that we are seeing some crowdsource messaging for a week or two people all over have been saying how come they are saying quid pro quo, it's so airy, it's latin, it's confusing. just use words to describe the alleged crime in plain english, bribery, extortion. so we are seeing that move

towards more direct language. and second i think tomorrow is basically -- this was a heist movie and it basically is. this would be the flashback. this is how it all began. this is the beginning of the shadow foreign policy that giuliani was running. his contacts with the former state prosecutor in ukraine. and the efforts to try to create some pressure first on her on the ambassador to get her out of the way. and that's what we are going to hear about tomorrow. >> ambassador mcfaul, i read her transcript and we have talked about those excerpts here. but i think when people hear about the call she got in the middle of the night and of the way she was rushed out of the country not because she faced threats in a foreign country but because she faced threats because of donald trump and rudy giuliani. i cannot imagine that that's going to land in a way that republicans are prepared for tomorrow. >> i agree. i mean, i remember it in realtime. ambassador yovanovitch is somebody i've known for three

decades. i did not know the full details until we got that transcript. and it is shocking. i just want to keep underscoring how extraordinary all of this is. i've never heard of this ever happening before. and i think, nicole, the point you made at the beginning is really important for everybody to understand what her testimony will do will show that this was not just a one-off phone call. sometimes a president can be a little sloppy and free, you know, free-wheeling. this was a campaign that took place over months and started with giuliani talking to lutsenko to try to open an investigation into hunter biden. at that time president trump's main electoral foe. and ambassador yovanovitch didn't want to have anything to do with it. and that's why she got removed. and the reason we know that to be true is because it was in the paper. rudy giuliani plans ukraine trip to push for inquiries that could

help trump. that's from may 9th in your newspaper. two days later after two days of hysteria including in republican circles, rudy giuliani cancels his trip to ukraine blaming democrats' spin. well, rudy giuliani was running a campaign that was ultimately executed by donald trump. rudy giuliani's under federal criminal investigation for his role in that. could trump be? >> we'll see. i mean, my colleague ken vogel is a great reporter and broke that story. he kind of caught the campaign mid-stride. and giuliani had to back off that trip. he does seem like he's under intense pressure. i think this testimony tomorrow. we haven't i think heard her talk a lot about his specific role that she was directly aware of. it was more through intermediaries. we are talking about the origins of this shadow channel, which again, totally unprecedented. but not unprecedented in trump's washington. there are many of these shadow channels in trump's washington. there are lots of paid foreign

lobbyists who are essentially displacing the state bureaucracy to achieve private ends for their clients overseas. >> we don't talk enough about the fact that rudy giuliani is under a criminal investigation that's so troubling to main doj that after the head of the criminal division took a meeting with rudy giuliani. they took this extraordinary step of releasing a statement to i think your doj spokesperson saying head of the doj crim, never would've met with rudy giuliani if he would have only known that he was under investigation for this stuff. how much trouble could rudy giuliani be in? >> any time anyone is being investigated by the southern district new york, they should assume they are in a lot of trouble. especially because as we have heard reports that at least one of these other associates, lev parnas was in a position to be cooperative. now, if he wants to come in and cooperate with them, he has to

tell everything, not just about his own misdeeds about everyone he knows including rudy giuliani. we don't even know sort of the full extent of what these witnesses could be telling the southern district. but i wouldn't be resting easy anyone who was in their sights right now. >> and what's so interesting about the campaign against yovanovitch carried out by giuliani in this country and lev parnas on the ground is that lev parnas is already in the net. he's been arrested, he's been indicted and he's flipped. rudy giuliani under investigation, as far as we know. but they were involved in a campaign that donald trump eventually took the action. he removed yovanovitch. that's what the campaign was designed to do. >> yeah. they did not stop this campaign even when it was revealed in the "new york times." and one of the ways you have to think about it, i like your heist movie analogy. what is partially so extraordinary here of course is the bribery, the extortion, the attempt to shake down ukraine to

investigate biden. but also we have been seeing testimony the people who should run american foreign policy in ukraine. our ambassador, people like bill taylor. gordon sondland and rudy giuliani have no business being involved whatsoever in our foreign policy towards ukraine. so giuliani comes in as someone who is not at all in the u.s. government. he is banging around trying to put pressure on people to investigate and putting pressure on the ambassador when she gets to go along with it. >> then gordon sondland who is the ambassador to the e.u., ukraine is not a member of the e.u. hanging on restaurants, talking to the president of the united states. so what you see here is the two foreign policies. the above-board normal business of the u.s. government and then these characters like giuliani and sondland coming in because they are the ones who are willing to do trump's bidding. and we should take the threat seriously. and mike mcfaul knows this as well as anyone. i used to worry sometimes for mike's safety when he was in russia and the russians really dialed up the pressure. we have seen harm done to people in ukraine by russian-backed interest, for instance. this is a tough part of the world where bad things can happen to people even prominent

people who have done things have put them on the wrong side of certain powerful interests there. i don't think people should think this is hyperbole. this is a very credible threat in a very tough neighborhood. >> it's not hyperbole coming through her because the threat that she's going to go through things, she, yovanovitch, america's ambassador to ukraine is a quote from donald j. trump released by his white house in a summary of the transcript of the perfecto call. tomorrow could really be another body blow to this president. >> don't think it'll be a good day for him. obviously we know many of the facts already for sure. there is another element that i think it will be interesting if they dig into. i remember giuliani's kicking around with these two, you know, these two sidekicks, lev parnas is the one that gets a lot of attention, igor fruman. are we really convinced that

these two guys all they want to do is fight corruption in ukraine? they've just been deputized by president trump to go fight corruption in ukraine? i'm suspicious of that. so in addition to trying to help the president with his re-election effort, that we know to be true. i hope we will get into what other things they were doing because lev parnas was paying giuliani $500,000 as a retainer. what were they seeking? and my guess is maybe we will find out tomorrow but maybe not. there were some other more material things that they were privately interested in. and those are all in the private channel that are running this parallel privatized foreign policy. and the ring leader of it is the president of the united states. >> and it does beg to reason that if you have the fbi and you have the cia and you have the nsa, why do you need lev and igor? i don't know. maybe we'll find out tomorrow. my thanks to ambassador mcfaul

and berit berger. when we come back, only donald trump would seek to distract from his own impeachment by welcoming the turkish leader. that story next.

i want to thank the president for his partnership and cop rag as we work to build a more stable and peaceful and prosperous middle east. i'm a big fan of the president. we have a great relationship with the kurds. we get along with them. and by the way i think the president, he may have some factions within the kurds, but i think the president has a great relationship with the kurds. >> you think? that was donald trump rolling out the red carpet for turkey's president erdogan yesterday unbothered by the turk's attack last month in our closest allies in our fight against isis, the kurds. erdogan felt so comfortable and cozy in his own skin sitting

there in donald trump's oval office that he pulled out an anti-kurdish video, shared it with the president and five republican senators on an ipad. it was first reported by axios who wrote this, quote. an oval office meeting yesterday took a dark turn when erdogan pulled out his ipad and made the group watch a propaganda video. erdogan apparently thought he could sway these senators by forcing them to watch a clunky propaganda film. the shock of trump warmly welcoming an autocrat to the white house on the first day of public impeachment hearings was not lost on council foreign relations president richard haass who tweeted this. the president of turkey is invited to the white house despite close ties to russia and contempt for human rights/democracy and the president of ukraine. shameful. tables back. jonathan lemire back at this post. jonathan, what was the white

house strategy? i mean, bringing the autocrat that donald trump had another sketchy phone call with and let him run a military op to distract from the sketchy phone call with ukraine? >> yeah. it's a puzzling bit of counterprogramming if you will. certainly the president has shown great affinity for strongmen, for authoritarian leaders like erdogan. he bragged yesterday that they had been friends for a long time. he said that they were close. he praised him in his leadership in turkey. he made those just jaw-dropping statements that erdogan had a good relationship with the kurds. we can fact-check that. they do not have a good relationship. and, in fact, erdogan, you know, after the president gave the order to withdraw most u.s. troops from syria, turkey moved in with real violence and hundreds of kurds are believed to have been killed. this is the president though, you know, looking -- prioritizing tactics over strategy. short-term wins, short-term

attempts to change the headlines. we saw that yesterday. he was trying to draw away from the impeachment proceedings. it's sort of surprising in a way that he was as restrained as he was commenting about them. but as he discussed earlier, he tried to project this idea that he was too busy conducting the people's business when certainly he caught up with the footage of the impeachment hearings later that night from the white house residence and we certainly expect to hear from him at any moment here in the white house when he departs. and, nicole, i will just add he was supposed to leave for this white house more than a half an hour ago. but the pool that's on the south lawn right now, he seen the president in the oval office having an animated conversation with attorney general barr over what we don't know. >> this was the counter programming to highlight the relationship between america and turkey. so here is what turkey has been given. let me bring you in on this, too, ben rhodes. here's what trump has given turkey. trump in a phone call that it

would seem two slightly irregular channels. mike pompeo was on it but that doesn't seem to be the variable these days. trump gave a green light to turk aeye on a military offensive in syria that killed, as jonathan lemire said, hundreds of kurds. you got an oval office meeting and he had an opportunity to share a video on his ipad that sounds like the kind of propaganda that normal national security adviser keeps far, far, far away from any president or any west wing. and it's not clear what america got. >> well, america got nothing. in fact we got deeply embarrassed on the world stage. the video depicts the leader of the syrian democratic forces that lost 11,000 people in the fight to dislodge isis with the support of our special forces. these are the people that trump abandoned. and some of these kurds were killed. so lives were lost. so we are looking at the reality show component here in washington. these are life and death decisions that trump has made. stepping back to what do we get? nothing of foreign policy value.

what we do know from reporting is that this relationship with turkey seems to involve a channel between erdogan's son-in-law and kushner. everybody knew in government was the heart of corruption in turkey. a lot of corrupt financial dealings run through that person. so once again we are left to wonder what else has been promised here? we already know there's a trump tower in istanbul. we don't know what president trump's particular interest is in having this relationship with erdogan. and the republicans, this is the one issue they broke from trump october it is embarrassing, humiliating to them that trump is asking them to carry his water, defend him with these bad talking points the same day he is rubbing their nose in it by having erdogan in the oval office getting that visit. >> jonathan lemire thank you for all your reporting on this and all our topics today. coming up the latest candidate to jump into the 2020 race. former massachusetts governor deval patrick joins me after this break. joins me after this break i saved hundreds on my car insurance

when i switched to geico. and this is how it made me feel. it was like that feeling when you go to taco night at your favorite restaurant. and they're the best-tasting tacos in the entire world. and just when you think it couldn't get any better, they bring you out another taco... ...cuz they made an extra one. ♪ extra taco! geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. fifteen minutes could save you - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month.

shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. at outback, steak & oh no, it's gone.ck. phew, it's back with lobster mac & cheese. it's gone again. oh, it's back with shrimp now! steak & lobster starting at only $15.99. hurry in before these three are gone again. outback steakhouse. but maybe not for people with rheumatoid arthritis.

because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr, a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; don't start xeljanz if you have an infection. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results. tell your doctor if you've been somewhere fungal infections are common, or if you've had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. needles. fine for some. but for you, one pill a day may provide symptom relief. ask your doctor about xeljanz xr. an "unjection™".

so just when you thought the field was winnowing down the number of candidates running to unseat donald trump is back up. today the new number 18 as former massachusetts governor deval patrick officially filing paperwork in the first in the nation primary state of new hampshire. at this stage in the are race it's not going to be easy. he has zero cash on hand. no polling to get him onto a debate stage any time soon. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg is moving toward a run. joining us now is governor deval patrick. governor -- >> hi, nicole. how are you? you're going to give me a number? we get numbers now. >> i don't do math. you will find that. i was thinking about princess and the. are you getting in because there is a deficiency with this field? >> yeah. it's a fair question i've been getting all day. you may know, nicole, i was very

close to getting in for a year ago for exactly the same reasons. i find this such an incredibly exciting time and a precarious time as well. the appetite for solutions equal to the challenges that we face, whether it's climate change or income inequality is higher than it has been, greater than it has been in -- i can think of few other times in my lifetime. and trying to be a part of system change where we really get at root causes, that's enormously appealing to someone with a reformer's instinct and experience like mind. we didn't get in about a year ago this time when my wife diane was diagnosed with uterine cancer. and i am happy to say that when we celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary in may in she's cancer-free and she's strong and interested and ready. and so i did ask myself whether we had missed our moment, our chance because i think it's an

enormously talented field. but i do think, and my experience tells me that we have to be about more than sort of replacing the current divisiveness with a better version of our own. we've got to be about politics if you will. how do we bring in people in ways that keep our agenda ambitious but also make room for people who may have a better way to get there or a different way to get there than we. >> so -- >> i've had that experience. >> i don't mean to do this to you, but i am going to ask so that we can cover more ground if you would indulge me. >> raur going to make me raise my hand? [ laughter ] >> no, no gimmicks. i just want to engage in a conversation with me. i've been doing this for a lot less time than i was a campaign operative. if i were your campaign operative, i'd be working with you round the clock on how to deal with the bane vuller nablt. you are running in a democratic

primary. your party has moved to the left. how do you explain feeling at home at bane? >> first of all i love that the party has moved to the left. i love that we are the party of the woke. i believe that we also have to be the party of the still waking. and i have always conducted my personal life and my business life and my life as a civil rights lawyer, my life as an advocate, my wife as a mediator and as a governor that way and why. it's not because i am trying to smooth over issues. i am interested in getting at root causes. this state here in massachusetts was a 98% insurance coverage before the aca went into effect. and i am still not sure there is another state that can get there. now how do we do that? it was about bringing together this broad coalition of advocates and policymakers and health care experts and advocates for poor people in the marginalized and so many others

to invent their form and then sticking together to do refinements on the strength of what we have learned. that's how you get change that lasts. and at the same time we are changing systems? we need to be growing an economy out to the middle and marginalized, not just up to the well connected. so, yes. i work at the place that was demonized in the 2012 presidential election. >> by your party, by your side. >> because i am about to tell you, you may remember, i was co-chair of that campaign. and i didn't buy into it then and i still don't. there is a place for private equity in equity in the private economy. there is a place for business in our lives. but there is -- it is also true that capitalism, generally, has a lot to answer for. that is so. and we need to be able to confront that and that's exactly the work i've been doing at bane capital but i've done that same work in other business settings before. >> who'd you call before you got in the race? >> who did i call? >> in the field.

i mean, did you call and say like, god i'm so sorry? you guys are awesome. you all rock but i think you need me. did you have any weird calls with any of the front-runners? >> well, i had -- i did speak with vice president biden. >> how'd that go? >> and i spoke with senator -- senator warren. you know, i've known vice president biden for a very long time. he was chair of the judiciary committee when i was nominated the head the civil rights division in the clinton administration and he's had my back all those years and i've tried to have his and i will continue to do so. and senator warren and i have gotten to be friends since before she was senator. and, in fact, she and bruce and diane and i get together from time to time. i think she's -- i think the world of her. i think she's a fabulous senator and i think she has run a very, very disciplined campaign. none of these conversations are easy. i haven't endorsed anyone. i've talked to many of the candidates. those two and others. who are my friends in this

field. and i happen to be one of those maybe weird democrats who thinks a competitive primary's a good idea. it's not about, you know, how we -- about our relationships with each other so long as we keep the -- our campaigns, our respective campaigns, positive and forward-looking. it's about the voters. it's about the citizens. and frankly, it's about a whole lot of folks who have checked out because they feel like government and the economy isn't paying any attention to them and their needs. we have a chance to deal with that with our nominee and by winning the white house and the senate and holding the house. and we have a chance to actually get stuff done if we make room for the possibility that someone else may have something to contribute to how we achieve our goals. >> governor, you did not get in in time to make the msnbc debate but if you're free and you want to come talk to us, come sit down with us, we'll bring you down. we'll pop you up wherever you are. we'd love to have your insights, your contributions to our conversation. >> thank you, nicolle. i really appreciate that.

take care. take you up on it. >> thanks for spending some time with us. >> you bet. >> what do you think? i mean, i -- i -- i -- if something happened in your family to your spouse, obviously that is the only thing that matters. not the schedule or presidential primary. it is also true that by entering the race, i think it's 10 1/2 weeks before iowa, you're suggesting there's a deficiency in the field. >> obviously. look, i think there is a couple areas which he's running. first of all, it's the kind of classic governor campaign. i've gotten things done. i have a record. you want the guillotine, there's sanders and warren. if you want the governor, here's deval patrick. i think he's going to have to have a much better answer on bane capital. i kind of couldn't believe what i was hearing there. he's going to have to talk about what work he did for bane capital, what they were paying him for. and you know, there are a lot of private equity firms. some do different kinds of business than others and different records. i'll be curious to see how he tries to position his work at his firm against the industry as

a whole. >> yeah, to your point, i wanted to hear the first answer on bane. and i mean, i think by the end of the next hour, there will be attacks from other campaigns on that answer. >> well, that answer just kind of made my jaw drop a little bit because it seems so out of touch with what the actual issue that the democratic base is grappling with and their frustration with big money elites. to say, oh, but i was chair of president obama's campaign and i actually didn't believe it when i was a part of that is so cynical, it just -- that was not good. >> put you on the spot. you know him. >> i know him. i've done dev i've known deval patrick. one of president obama's first endorsers in 2007. look, i think what he can say, his body of work, right, i was a civil rights attorney. you know, i was forefront of the obama campaign. he has a progressive he can lift

up. then i do think on bane what's important is he has to speak to both what he did there, what kind of investment was it, you know, let me try to explain to you why i thought this had some value. and i think some of this is around impact investing and how he tried to model different kinds of capitalism through what he did at bane. but then i'll speak very specifically to i get what the concerns were, right? the concerns that people have with private equity is that it destroys jobs, that it destroys businesses. that was the obama campaign's attack in 2012 on mitt romney and i was part of that. i think he has to be very specific about both what he was doing and about how he understands what the concerns are. you can't just dismiss it and say we shouldn't attack the private equity industry here. you have to say here's why i understand what you're saying and here's why you shouldn't hold that against me because here's what i was doing at bane. i think he has to fill in those gaps. >> what are the odds that he's going to light the field on fire and sort of leap frog himself into even like a top five

situation? >> so they're long odds but here's what i'd say. one, he's a very charismatic figure. very charismatic speaker. i remember we used to share drafts even of obama speeches back in 2007 because he had that level of talent. >> that's interesting. >> also, i think what his bed is, nicolle, is he's not going to be in iowa. new hampshire's next door. they all know him there. and south carolina has a huge african-american electorate. and i think his long-shot bet, his hail mary mapass is i can d very well in new hampshire and that can propel me into south carolina where i can consolidate the african-american vote. >> all right. we are going to sneak in our very last break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. - [narrator] meet the ninja foodi air fry oven.

make family-sized meals fast, and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. the ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. where people go to learn about their medicare options before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here's why...medicare part b doesn't pay for everything. this part is up to you. a medicare supplement plan helps pay for some of what medicare doesn't. call unitedhealthcare insurance company today to request this free decision guide. and learn about the only medicare supplement

plans endorsed by aarp. selected for meeting their high standards of quality and service. this type of plan lets you say "yes" to any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. do you accept medicare patients? i sure do! so call unitedhealthcare today and ask for your free decision guide. oh, and happy birthday... or retirement... in advance. with time, comes change that's for sure... and when those changes might help more people, especially those in retirement, i think it's worth talking about! so, aag is introducing a new jumbo reverse mortgage loan so you can now access as much as $4 million dollars in cash,

tax free, from your home's equity. aag's new jumbo reverse mortgage loan can give you more tax-free cash than ever before. if you've had your home for a while, it's probably worth a lot more today. so why not use that appreciation for anything you need maybe it's some home repairs, or updates to make it more comfortable so you can stay in the place you love. it's a viable effective way to support your other investments long into the future, and another way aag is working to make your retireme... better. don't wait. get your info kit now!

we're out of time but i want to thank nick, ben rose, elise jordan. most of all, you for watching. we'll be back tomorrow morning at 9:00 for a full day, all day long coverage of the impeachment proceedings in donald j. trump. that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press daily" and good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington where after yesterday's opening day of public impeachment hearings we can say with relative certainty that the politics of impeachment are going to scramble the presidential race. it's not a matter of if it's going to but how? "the washington post" reports that republicans in the senate are considering a lengthier impeachment trial in the