that smile could light up a room. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales, thanks for watching. good morning, i'm dara brown in new york at msnbc world headquarters. here's what's happening, a new day in d.c. and more testimony in the house inquiry a short time from now. a senior white house budget official could hold an important piece to the impeachment trial. the first direct account of an overheadphord phone call whe the president allegedly asks about the investigations. a round of applause as the testimony of the former ukraine ambassador came to a close. the big takeaways from what marine yovanovitch said. guilty on all counts. roger stone convicted of lying

to congress and witness tampering. how much jail time might he face? new this morning, things are heating up as the impeachment inquiry into president donald trump reaches day 54. in just hours, mark sandy, a long time career employee at the white house office of management and budget is expected to break ranks and appear on capitol hill for a rare saturday closed door deposition. his testimony could fill in important details on the holdup of military aid to ukraine. it follows closed door testimony late yesterday from david holmes, the staffer in ukraine who overheard the president's phone call with ambassador gordon sondland which came one day after the infamous july 25th call with ukraine. according to his opening statement obtained by nbc news, holmes said i then heard president trump ask, so he's going to do the investigation? ambassador sondland replied that he's going to do it, added that president zelensky will do anything you ask him to do.

joining me now is national politics reporter at news day and dave leventhal, he'll be joining me in just a minute. emily, i want to go to you. how does the holmes testimony fit into this impeachment narrative democrats are trying to build, and how damaging is this piece of the story line to the president? >> it really underscores how much the president was seeking to use public tools for his personal gain, very damaging indeed and very much undermines the defense and those allies to the president who say the democrats seeking to impeach the president or build a case against him don't have a lot of firsthand knowledge and much of it is hearsay. here we have a potential witness someone who's testified behind closed doors and seems willing to do so out in the open with firsthand knowledge of what the president and sondland talked about. >> emily, i want to take a look at holmes' oemg statement. he says i heard ambassador

sondland greet the president, explain that he was calling from kyiv. i heard president trump clarify ambassador sondland was in ukraine. he replied yes, he was in ukraine and went on to state president zelensky loves your ass. what is your reaction to that? >> this was an unsecured call, a cell phone call from a restaurant in kyiv between a president and ambassador that's very unusual and not very safe in teshrms of national security. the content itself very surprising but not surprising at the same time, shocking that they would be speaking so frivolously about a very serious matter, a matter that concerns taxpayers, that concerns ukrainians who might need the aid that was held up, just so many factors. >> did the republicans have a defense for this one or does it directly tie the president to the investigations request? is there any smoking gun element here? >> the smoking gun element is the direct tie.

we've heard several times several experts and analysts say the mueller investigation didn't have a direct tie to the president. it was more about his campaign and those in hiscircle. this is damning in that the president is directly implica implicated. >> mark sandy is expected to testify in a closed door session. he would be the first person within the white house office of management and budget to testify, unlike a lot of the other omb employees, he wasn't appointed by trump. what is he expected to say? >> he is an omb official, the first one to testify. like you said the top of the hour, breaking ranks with the administration. he would talk to -- he would speak to how the ukrainian aid, the military aid, the 400 million was held up potentially at the direction of the president, and it would be the q quid end of the alleged quid pro quo. it would be very damaging to the

president potentially. breaking ranks, potentially encouraging other witnesses to step forward. >> the impeachment inquiry didn't just develop behind closed doors yesterday. it was also in full view to all americans as marie yovanovitch testified in a dramatic public hearing. the former ukraine ambassador's testimony painting a bigger picture surrounding the white house's dealings in ukraine. but one of the biggest headlines coming out of the hearing was president trump tweeting during her testimony writing in part, everywhere marie yovanovitch went turned bad. intelligence committee chairman adam schiff getting reaction from the witness in realtime. >> now the president in realtime is attacking you. what effect do you think that has on other witnesses willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing? >> well, it's very intimidating. >> several democratic lawmakers including house peeker nancy pelosi condemning the

president's actions, which they say amounted to witness intimidation. >> he made a mistake, and he knows her strength, and he was trying to undermine it. of course presidents appoint ambassadors, but people don't insult people, especially when they're giving testimony before the congress of the united states. i think even his most ardent supporters have to honestly admit this is the wrong thing for the president to do. >> president trump is defending his attack on yovanovitch. nbc white house correspondent kelly o'donnell joins us with the latest on that. good morning to you. what is the president saying? >> reporter: well, good morning, dara, it boils down to the president claiming he's got free speech rights just like everyone else, and he did not actually address how complicated this became for republicans who then one after another as the hearing progressed thanked and congratulated the witness, the former ukraine ambassador for her service and her long tenure

at the department of state putting them at a perhaps weakened position in their argument, republicans' argument that she was a witness to things that happened before the events that are the focus of the impeachment inquiry. she was already -- she had already left her post being asked to leave by the president a couple of months before the phone call involving president trump and ukraine's president, and so the republican argument that however important she was in terms of her expertise and knowledge of ukraine and some of the run up to these events, that she had not been directly involved, was not a direct witness to any crimes of the president as democrats have outlined it. so really the president undercutting his own party's ability to try to carry out that hearing with whatever limited advantages they could try to seek. here's how the president characterized it at an unrelated event here at the white house where reporters asked him if he was trying to intimidate the witness or tamper with the

proceedings. here's the president. >> and i'll tell you about what tampering is. tampering is when a guy like shifty schiff doesn't let us have lawyers. tampering is when schiff doesn't let us have witnesses, doesn't let us speak. i have the right to speak. i have freedom of speech just as other people do, but they've taken away the republicans' rights. >> yes, go ahead, please. >> quiet, quiet, quiet. >> sir, do you believe your tweets or words can be intimidating? >> i don't think so at all. >> reporter: and so the president did not address any specifics about marie yovanovitch there, but as you heard him say, he does not think his words or tweets can be intimidating. that of course is a view not shared by many who watched the proceedings and certainly not shared by democrats who are seizing on this moment to say the president crossed a line by attacking the witness as she was testifying. as you mentioned, there will be more work today as the impeachment inquiry continues

with its weekend sessions. we don't know exactly if the president will pick up with the same theme of going against the witnesses by tweeting about them or talking about them, but we could certainly expect he'll talk about the impeachment inquiry more broadly as we have seen him do day in day out. . >> let's bring back emily no and dave leventhal. dave, how difficult did the president make it for the gop to deal with yovanovitch's testimony with his tweets? >> one has to wonder if the president in a way has written his own article of impeachment, which could be witness tampering before the house is going to be considering a number of different things in terms of ultimately putting forward articles of impeachment. that includes abuse of power. that includes obstruction of justice going back to the mueller report, obstruction of congress and not going ahead and responding to subpoenas that are going forward, and the notion that the president is tweeting at a witness while she's quite

literally testifying before congress could be something that would put house democrats over the edge and adding an additional article of impeachment going to the process forward. >> yovanovitch in her testimony talked about the moment she learned about what president trump said about her in the call with president zelensky. let's listen. >> i was shocked and devastated that i would feature in a phone call between two heads of state in such a manner where president trump said that i was bad news to another world reader. it was a terrible moment. a person who saw me actually reading the transcript said that the color drained from my face. i think i even had a physical reaction. >> might this testimony strike a chord with americans in a different way than wednesday? is this the importance of what we heard from yesterday? >> well, we're seeing the personalization of the process. up until now we've basically

gotten information about the impeachment inquiry process through transcripts, through news reports, through what republicans and democrats who were party to some of the testimony were saying about it, but now we're actually hearing from the witnesses in, again, a very personalized way. is it going to change people's minds? the fact of the matter is that most people's minds have been made up. there have been several new polls that have come out that have effectively said the vast majority of americans, roughly about three-fourths have already figured out for themselves is that donald trump has who absolutely should be impeached. there's a very narrow slice of americana who has their mind open enough to be able to hear the hearings and maybe be able to be swayed one way or another. >> yovanovitch was also asked about a conversation she had with gordon sondland, and she asked him for advice about what to do after being removed as

ambassador. >> he suggested that i needed to go big or go home, and he said that the best thing to do would be to, you know, send out a tweet, praise the president. that sort of thing. my reaction was that i'm sure he meant well, but it was not advice that i could really follow. it felt -- it felt partisan, it felt political. >> what does this say about yovanovitch's approach to her role as an ambassador and sondland's approaches and how they fit into the president's world? >> of course ambassador yovanovitch is a career diplomat who takes her responsibilities to the country very seriously. sondland, as you know, was a donor to the president and is a first-time ambassador. we a little bit of speculation as to whether the president will pardon sondland, which of course would show the president's

loyalty to him personally over rule of law and loyalty to the country at large. this is exemplified in what sondland allegedly told yovanovitch if she wanted to be in the clear she should prioritize the president and his needs over the country. >> stick around, we'll have you back later on in the hour to talk about how both sides handled the questioning this week. at this hour, gordon sondland is in brussels on the job as u.s. ambassador to the u.n. next we go live to brussels and a reporter there who will give us a unique perspective on that call between the president and sondland. ncer) verizon knows you love live music and sports. we got to be this far away from the stage. (announcer) that's why we give you access to more jaw-dropping experiences, including nfl games and events. i have never had a vip experience before like that. probably the best moment of my life. (announcer) switch now and you'll get access to thousands of tickets on us and get up to $750 toward our best phones.

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. u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sondland. member of my staff accompanied ambassador sondland. >> ambassador sondland. >> ambassador sondland. >> ambassador sondland. >> your staff member could jefr hear mr. sondland on the phone. >> you asked ambassador sondland to push back on president trump's demand, is that right? >> that's correct, sir. >> gordon sondland ambassador to the european union and a lightning rod this week in the public impeachment hearing. today he's in brussels still serving at the direction of president trump. new information about another phone call, this time on july 25th. here is ambassador taylor's

revelation. >> following that meeting in the presence of my staff at a restaurant, ambassador sondland called president trump and told him of his meetings in kyiv. a member of my staff could hear trump on the phone asking investigator sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told president trump the ukrainians were ready to move forward. following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden, which giuliani was pressing for. >> gordon sondland is called to publicly testify this wednesday in the impeachment investigation. joining me now from brussels is "new york times" matt acue sow. this "washington post" headline gets to the heart of the firestorm around sond land besieged on all sides, gordon sondland claims power. what is he doing in brussels this weekend?

>> i think the thinking here in brussels at the embassy is let's try to keep it as business as usual. obviously that's complicated since he is very much at the center of this storm, but, you know, ambassador sondland's had a very non-traditional approach to his diplomacy since he got here. he came in and very much in the donald trump vein was sort of a big personality, non-traditional kind of rubbed people the wrong way, especially in europe. i don't think there was anybody really used to somebody coming in and really kind of shaking things up, talking tough on trade. one of the things you would hear a lot here in brussels is we don't really know what the trump administration stands for on europe other than we want to be tough on europe, and the ambassador was very much the tip of the spear of that. >> ambassador taylor staffer david holmes testified behind closed doors on friday sharing he overheard sondland and trump's phone call.

holmes said i heard ambassador sondland greet the president and explain that he was calling from kyiv. i heard president trump then clarify ambassador sondland was in ukraine. ambassador sondland replied yes, he was in ukraine and went on to state president zelensky loves your ass. maybe not a traditional response. what's your reaction to that? >> well, yeah, i mean, this is sort of par for the course. again, it's somebody who very much is in line with the president, speaks his mind, likes to talk about how we're good friends with the europeans, but sometimes we have to have tough love. we have to have tough talk with the people we're friends with. the thing that's really interesting to diplomats here in brussels is why was the ambassador to the european union spending so much attention and so much of his time on ukraine, which was not part of his mandate, and it really just

speaks to kind of a free wheeling style of diplomacy that the administration has really emboldened, and he's got these ambassadors who are politically close to and personally close to the president, and he's given them a long leech, aash and a l running room. that's what you come up with, especially in an administration that doesn't particularly trust career diplomats of the state department and doesn't trust intelligence agencies. you end up with very influential diplomats and ambassadors with direct lines to the president. >> and president trump once praised gordon sondland in may and recently tried to put some distance between them. take a listen. >> our ambassador to the european union gordon sondland, thank you, gordon. where is he? great job. >> let me just say, i hardly know the gentleman. >> what do we know about their relationship? >> well, we know he -- the ambassador was a major donor to the trump campaign.

you know, i don't -- i don't think they were necessarily friends, but -- and it's not uncommon for presidents of both parties to tap major donors as you know for plum jobs, and it's also not unusual for presidents to praise ambassadors, even if they don't particularly know them. that's kind of par for the course, but i think it's true that the folks in the white house thought that ambassador sondland was doing a good job, and because he really came in and shook up this posting and kind of put -- kind of made people unsteady, especially on the issue of trade and tariffs, it really shook up the normal diplomatic relationships here in brussels. >> matt, what does this testimony about the july 26th phone call add to the impeachment investigation? >> well, i think it certainly adds to the story line that the president cared deeply about

getting ukraine to announce this investigation into, you know, biden and biden's son and the related companies as i think you had mentioned earlier. is that going to change people's minds? i don't know. what it's adding to is a very clear picture that this was a president who believed that ukraine needed to crack down, not on corruption in general but on this one issue that he -- that the president believed could affect joe biden personally, and i think going into the rest of the impeachment hearings, that's going to be a key theme. what was the president trying to do? was he after or trying to crack down on corruption in ukraine, which that is a foreign policy goal, or was he after politically wounding his rival and trying to get, you know, the stench of corruption on the former vice president? >> still so many questions to ask, matt acuzo, thank you so much.

guilty on all counts, how long roger stone could face behind bars, and the big question about whether the president could use his pardon power to get him out of it. on this late night laugh line, roger stone gets the attention of bill maher. >> roger stone threatened and threatened that he would take away his dogs. trump keeps calling this a witch hunt, and yet it's roger stone who literally says i'll get you and your little dog. (burke) at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. even a- (ernie) lost rubber duckie? (burke) you mean this one? (ernie) rubber duckie! (cookie) what about a broken cookie jar? (burke) again, cookie? (cookie) yeah. me bad. (grover) yoooooow! oh! what about monsters having accidents? i am okay by the way!

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. now to the morning headlines, a manhunt underway in new jersey right now after gunfire erupts at a high school football game. >> terrified fans ran from the bleachers and players rushed off the field in the chaos last night. at least two people are hospitalized with serious injuries. police recovered a weapon but haven't made an arrest. the suspected gunman in the southern california high school shooting died friday after being treated for a self-inflicted gunshot wound. the student opened fire at his high school thursday killing two students and injuring three

others. students and their families attending an evening prayer service shared their disbelief at what happened. >> he's calling me, and he said, mom, i had to run. i'm running because there's a shooter. >> investigators still do not have a motive for that attack. with just days away from execution, rodney reed's scheduled death sentence was put on hold friday. the texas court ordered the delay demanding new evidence including claims of false testimony in the 1996 murder and rape of a 19-year-old woman be heard. reed had been scheduled to be executed on wednesday. and take a look at this, a bizarre crash leaves two planes entangled at a san antonio, texas, airport friday. the plane landing from san jose collided onto a parked plane while taxiing on the runway. the pilot reported a fuel leak but have yet to determine the

cause of the accident. fortunately no one was hurt. back to washington now and one of donald trump's long-time confidants guilty of lying to congress to protect the president. roger stone, a former trump adviser was found guilty of all seven counts stemming from special counsel robert mueller's russia investigation. he was charged with lying to congress, witness tampering, and obstruction. he is the sixth trump associate to plead guilty or be convicted in the past three years. nbc's pete williams has more. >> it took the jury just over one day to reach a verdict, guilty of lying to congress. no cheomment today from roger stone himself, still under a gag order, a far cry from his promise to fight the charges when he was arrested ten months ago. >> i believe this is a politically motivated investigation. >> reporter: stone was convicted of lying to a house committee about trying to find out what wikileaks founder julian assange was up to with e-mails hacked by the russians about the hillary clinton campaign. prosecutors said stone lied because the truth looked bad for

donald trump. he was also found guilty of urging a radio host, randy credico to lie about his conversations with stone about wikileaks. stone told credico to act like a character in a godfather movie who lies to congress. among the prosecution witnesses, former trump strategist steve bannon who stayed stone bragged about having a back channel to wikileaks. >> there really was no getting away from the fact that he did lie to congress. >> reporter: after today's verdict, president trump tweeted a list of political enemies and asked didn't they lie? he called the verdict a double standard. stone is still out on bail this morning, he'll be sentenced on february 6th and the maximum sentence is 20 years. now, as a first time offender he won't get that much. this long-time friend of president trump likely will serve some time in prison. >> pete williams, thank you. let's bring in now msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos.

the jury quickly decided stone was guilty on all charges. >> sometimes these cases are difficult because it's difficult to prove whether a statement was false and that it was intentionally so, but in a case like this where there's just so much evidence that the statements he gave about what he knew and when he knew it, that they were false, it wasn't too difficult for a jury to convict him on these counts. >> and stone is a first-time offender, so how much time is the former trump associate facing now that the jury has convicted him on all seven counts? >> there's a real confusion that arises when you take the only real known number that you can know at the time that somebody is charged with a crime, which is the statutory maximum. it's usually arrived at by adding up all the potential maximums, and that ends up in decades and decades of prison time. the reality is the federal sentencing guidelines will recommend a sentence far, far below that, and most of these white collar type crimes have sentences surprisingly in the 0

to six-month range. that could be what stone is looking at. the federal sentencing guidelines are very complicated and involve adding up a lot of aggravating and mitigating circumstances, but it's not unrealistic to think that roger stone could be looking at zero to maybe a year in prison. >> is there an avenue for appeal here? >> there's always an avenue of appeal, in fact, appeals are essentially automatic after a conviction in federal court, so he'll at least get a chance to point out any irregularities in the trial at the federal court of appeals, but that's your one shot. and generally there's a lot of deference given to the trial court and to the jury. >> how likely is it that the president's pardon might come out for his long serving adviser? >> i tweeted about this yesterday. i think a pardon for roger stone is a very real possibility. i don't have time to list all the reasons why, but number one, the president likes roger stone. number two, he might need his

help in the 2020 campaign, and number three, the president has already tweeted he doesn't think what roger stone did was that big of a deal. and so because stone wasn't convicted of espionage or hacking orring in lihac hackihac hacking or anything like that, just lying, in the president's mind that might be a sin that is a lesser type sin and something that is pardonable. >> danny cevallos stay with us. we're going to move to a remarkable and historic week on capitol hill. for the first time the public got to hear from the main players in the impeachment inquiry. nbc's heidi perez bow la has more from the fallout. >> after six weeks and more than 100 hours in closed door hearings, this week the house entered a new phase. >> this is the first in a series of public hearings the committee will be holding as part of the house's impeachment inquiry. >> the impeachment inquiry goes public. details from u.s. officials past and present outline allegations

president trump withheld crucial military aid to ukraine unless that country opened an investigation into mr. trump's political rivals. >> it's one thing to try to leverage a meeting in the white house. it's another thing, i thought, to leverage security assistance. >> it became clear to me that giuliani's efforts to gin up politically motivated investigations were now affecting u.s. engagement with ukraine's. >> which country's interests are served when the very corrupt behavior we are criticizing is allowed to prevail. >> reporter: among the new revelations from u.s. ambassador to ukraine william taylor, a phone call between president trump and u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland. >> a member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador

sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden. >> reporter: also testifying acting deputy assistant secretary of state george kent and former u.s. ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch, who shared her response to a july 25th call between president trump and the leader of ukraine. >> what did you think when president trump told president zelensky and you read that you were going to go through some things. >> i didn't know what to think, but i was very concerned. >> did you feel threatened? >> i did. >> during the hearing, president trump slammed her record saying everywhere marie yovanovitch went turned bad, a comment the former ambassador responded to in realtime. >> i actually think that where i've served over the years i and others have demonstrably made

things better. >> reporter: democrats using the hearings to highlight what they call bribery, corruption, and abuse of power. >> there's a lot of legal terms to describe what the president was trying to do, but i think for most of us it was just wrong. >> reporter: republicans arguing the claims are based on nothing more than hearhearsay. >> every time that it gets close to the president of the united states, it is very clear. there is no conditionality. >> reporter: and president trump defiant as ever. >> they're unraveling, and their sinister plans will fail. >> reporter: the public hearings continue this coming week with eight government officials scheduled to testify. next, a key deadline in the battle for the white house and one potential major candidate misses it. with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need.

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in power politics and paychecks, higher than ever, the three major stock indices hitting record highs on optimism of an impending trail deal with china. the dow gaining to surpass 28,000 for months it's hitting 27,000. the s&p 500 closed at 3120. the nasdaq at nearly 8541, and all this means your 401(k) is likely getting a big boost. fidelity says the all time highs

has produced a record number of 401(k) millionaires. as of september 30th, fidelity says 200,401(k)s have at least $1 million. there's a record number of so call ira millionaires with more than 182,000 of them. and now to 2020 and new hampshire, the state's primary ballot is official but did everyone running for president make it? let's go to msnbc's campaign in manchester. you're living in the granite state. tell us who's in, who's out? >> that's right, dara, after a whirlwind two and a half weeks of a filing period tradition here where the candidates come usually in person to ensure their spot on the ballot, the first voting ballot of the 2020 primary is set, and one notable name will be missing, michael bloomberg. he will not appear on the ballot. he hasn't officially announced a campaign, but after filing in other states people were

wondering if he would come to new hampshire. he has said if he does run, he will not campaign in the early states, but his name will not even appear on the ballot here. there were some other surprises during the filing period as well. while candidates usually come in person to have a show of force for the strength of their campaign in new hampshire, julian castro and kamala harris opted to skip the tradition, and instead filed via representative or by mail, but their spot on the ballot is still secure. another surprise was the announcement of deval patrick, who came straight to new hampshire mere hours after announcing his presidential candida candidacy. cory booker was the final major democratic candidate to file for the new hampshire primary ballot on friday, and he addressed patrick's late entry into the race. his campaign, one that has a shared similar message of unity and addressing the character of

the country. he spoke to reporters about that a little bit. take a listen. >> i'm running my race. there have been people coming in, people going out, and i'm sure that still might change. by your metric, i do not take it as a personal insult that my friends believe that they are the best person to be president. it is such a good thing that we have a robust competition at a time that we need to make sure that whoever emerges from this is the best person to beat donald trump and lead us out of the ditch that he's dug for us and put us in. >> so yes, cory booker addressing head on the similarities in their messaging and also the crowded field but acknowledging that it's a good thing the democrats have so much competition and the new hampshire primary ballot will feature quite a few of them. >> julia juster, thank you so much. there's a programming note on wednesday msnbc and "the washington post" host the next

democratic debate live from atlanta. our moderators will ask the top ten candidates what voters need to know with less than three months until the first votes are cast. that's wednesday at 9:00 p.m. eastern only on msnbc. judging the councils, who did the better job questioning the witnesses this ses, who did the better job questioning the witnesses thils, who did the better job questioning the witnesses this week. stioning the witnesses this week. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time, without fingersticks. ask your doctor to write a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks. learn more at freestylelibre.us

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what did you think when president trump told president zelensky and you read that you were going to go through some things? >> do you believe your removal was part of some scheme to make it easier for elements of the ukrainian establishment to do things counter to u.s. interests? >> counsel for both the impeachment hearings included a big role for counsel from both the democrat and republican sides, and how critical was their performance? back with me emily ngo and national politics at news day and dave leventhal editor at large for the center for public integrity. how would you rate the performance of dan goeldman and steven caster? >> they provided a stylist counter punch on the democratic and republican side by the

lawmakers themselves, the members of congress who were also asking many, many politically pointed questions. lawyers were there to ask the legal questions as you might not be surprised about, and for daniel goldman in particular, he's somebody who comes from the southern district of new york, a former prosecutor there, and that's a district that has rankled donald trump's feathers in many cases, a little bit of an irony that he was up there asking some of the questions, but we could be hearing from both of them more in the future i would suspect. >> and emily, which was able to get more from marie yovanovitch? >> i think definitely the democratic counsel was able to read off of such evidence as the partial transcript of president

over the past couple of days. >> emily, do you think the numbers will move after yesterday's hearing? >> i would offer that they might. dave is right we live in a

hyperpolarized time of confirmation bias and people are only watching the news that confirms their personal beliefs. there's a new poll out of hofstra university that samples suburban voters, the crucial voters that might be the deciding voice in the general election. that is split down partisan lines, but shows some room for movement. >> does it matter who is winning the specific narrative between the democrats and republicans? >> it does very much. you saw from the yesterday's hearings that those very much about the sound bites, especially when it came to the republican lawmakers and their counsel. and at this point, it would appear that the democrats are very much in control of the narrative. you see speaker pelosi starting to use words like bribery, which sort of boils it down and makes it a little more palatable for the general public. but more to work with on the democratic side. >> dave, between wednesday and friday's hearings, which is going to have a longer impact or more of an impact in the long

term as we go forward? >> one thing we're not talking about right now, all the action is in the house, is what's going to happen in the senate. this is ultimately going to get to a point where articles of impeachment in almost all likelihood are going to be forwarded and voted on in the house, to the u.s. senate, where there's going to be a trial. who runs the u.s. senate right now? republicans do. and again, if barring something that is truly unexpected and changes the minds of republicans in the u.s. senate, there seems to be very few scenarios, no matter what comes out in the current proceedings in the house that's going to lead to republican senators flipping on donald trump. it's almost inconceivable at this point. one has to wonder despite the drama going on right now if any of that is going to change the minds that matter the most in terms of whether donald trump stays president of the united states or not. and that's the senators who are going to have the trial and conduct the trial of donald trump, if it gets to that point.

>> emily, to dave's point, do you think there's going to be any sway for the republican senators? and if so, what's it going to be? >> we know of course that the gop struggling one with the president potentially tweeting and allegedly intimidating witnesses in real-time. but also evidence emerging that they might not see coming, which makes it, complicates their response. i'm speaking to david holmes, his closed-door testimony of a phone call he heard between ambassador sondland and the president. a lot of things coming from potentially not out of the woodwork, but that they don't see coming, that they don't anticipate. >> let's look ahead to gordon sondland and what he will be speaking about when he faces this testimony. any expected bombshells out of that? anything that he could change or could sway the opinions? >> well you can expect that democrats are going to press him time and time again on exactly what he knows about the

conversations that occurred between the president of the united states, donald trump, and the president of ukraine. volodymyr zelensky. as a result of that, expect that he's going to face some of the most withering questions from the democratic side. his name has already been coming up time and time again in the earlier proceedings last week. and you can expect that that is going to be potentially an even more picked and dramatic interview and testimony that we've even experienced over the last couple of days. >> dramatic indeed. david leventhal, emily ngo, thank you for joining us. a key white house insider is expected to break ranks and testify behind closed doors, it's not going to please the president, coming up, the witness is, and why he is so important.

that will do did for me on this hour of msnbc. time now for alex witt. >> we'll see you again tomorrow morning. a good morning to you. i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters, it's 7:00 a.m. in the east. 4:00 a.m. out west. day 54 of the impeachment inquiry. some key and potentially historic developments over the last 24 hours. including both a major public hearing and a closed-door deposition on capitol hill. here's a snapshot of what's transpired here on msnbc as we

bring you the latest. >> and just a matter of moments we'll be hearing from the former ambassador of ukraine. marie yovanovitch will be testifying today. >> this is the second in a series of public hearings that the committee will be holding. the president in real-time is attacking you. what effect do you think that has on other witnesses' willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing? >> well, it's very intimidating. >> marie yovanovitch has been seated. she'll be questioned by the staff lawyer for the republicans. >> president trump is clearly rattled. by both the credible and compelling testimony in today's impeachment hearing and the criminal conviction of his long-time associate, roger stone, found guilty on all seven counts of lying to witnesses and tampering in the mueller investigation. >> breaking news from the embassy staffer in ukraine who overheard the president's p