we're all out of time for this hour. i'll see you again at noon eastern time. now time for "up" with david gura. this is "up." i'm david gura in washington where long-time employees expected to testify on capitol hill this morning.

mark sandy will become the first employee from the office of management and budget to testify. so far several of his colleagues have defied subpoenas. this could be a game changer. this is after bombshell testimony from david homes, who cooperated what ambassador bill taylor confirmed conversations. agents were told to add a trump resort to are the venues of the next g7 at the lastment. we'll have details. and i sit down with the chairman of the house democratic caucus and member of the judiciary committee and his thought on the republican response. and we'll speak to the chairman of the national campaign action

fund, glenn kirschner and andrew is across hill, a congressional reporter for politico. in just a few who are, eomb official who defied congressional seen as following a week of new revelations from major players in the impeachment inquiry, including bill taylor and maria yovanovitch. he said he heard of a phone call in which the president asked about the investigations. last night david holmes told the house intelligence committee in his opening statement obtained by nbc news that he heard that exchange. lawmakers told sondland the president ukraine would do it. after the phone call ended, he told holmes that president trump only case about, quote, big stuff.

sondland said it was big and he said he meant big stuff to the president like the bieden investigation that giuliani was pushing. maria yovanovitch said president trump's comments about her sounded like a threat. and right on cue during her testimony, president trump attacked her on twitter. that salvo did not go unnoticed. >> what we saw today, it wasn't enough that ambassador yovanovitch was smeared, attacked and recalled for no reason, at least no good reason, but what you saw today witness i tim da -- intimidation in realtime by the president of the united states are going after this dedicated and respected career public servant in an effort to not only chill her but to chill others so they come forward. we take this kind of witness intimidation and obstruction inquiry very serious.

>> what do you make of the -- >> it's witness intimidation. innocent people don't intimidate. he's looking more guilty. it will be considered, yeah. >> i want to start with you on capitol hill. describe the importance of the testimony today. this was an open question, if he was going to follow through and do it. what can he add to this story? what are we going to learn from him today? >> he can add a lot to this story, david. the timetable is july 18th to september 11th. on july 18 th, officials were informed a hold had been placed on the military aid to ukraine. they were not given a reason or told how it would be implemented and only after congress started investigating these trump and giuliani connections in ukraine,

only after those two things happened did the white house end up releasing the military aid on september 11th. omb has been the white house's fire wall in terms of this impeachment inquiry. democrats have struggled to get witnesses from omb in front of investigators to answer these critical questions, one being why was the hold placed in the first place and, secondly, how was that actually implemented and mark sandy will be able to speak to both of those. >> susan page, here is another career official doing what he thinks is right, going forward and doing this despite the fact that the white house is telling hip not to do it. we have mick mulvaney not doing it, pursuing legal avenues not to do it. put that in the broader scope of what we saw over the course of the week. >> it's really the revenge of the career bureaucrat, public servant. we've seen political employees at the white house and omb

refuse to come forward. but we see career people in the u.s. government stepping forward, sometimes at great risk to their careers despite the protections we have for civil servants o talk about what they saw. i think it's pretty powerful. i think the ambassador' testimony yesterday was pretty heartening to americans to see the people who are representing us in dangerous places doing difficult things on behalf of our government. >> andrew, another career official is david holmes. there was so many focus on the testimony maria yovanovitch yesterday. he brought up this phone call from july the 26th. what did lawmakers learn from david holmes last night? >> there was a lot of vulgar language contained in that opening statement that i can't necessarily repeat on television. the gist was he did corroborate william taylor's testimony

earlier this week in public before the house intelligence committee during which he revealed the existence of this conversation we hadn't known about before. this conversation between ambassador sondland and president trump that occurred at an outdoor restaurant in ykiv -- kyiv and sondland replied saying "they're going to do it" meaning president zelensky is going to do it and he said president zelensky would do anything for you. this is another data point connecting what democrats say is this ukraine scheme that is continuing to sort of ensnare the president, but they've struggled to get some more concrete connections to the president and this is one of them that they can use going into the public hearings next week. obviously david holmes corroborating that testimony was important but it will be even more important when and if gordon sondland kwcorroborates e rest of that conversation when he testifies in public this

coming wednesday. >> this happened behind closed doors. let's play a bit of tape of eric swalwell reacting to what he heard yesterday. >> arrows continue to point in the direction of a shakedown scheme led by the president of the united states, operated by agents lying rudy giuliani, gordon sondland and mick mulvaney. >> it was described as another data point. it's a sizable data point. >> it's massive. this is the evidence, this is the moment that directly connects trump to actually quarterbacking this effort to bribe ukraine into interfering on our elections, digging up political dirt on him. i think also the fanct that sondland reiterated the point that that war with russia, that's no big deal, the lives lost, what will impact our policy for ukraine, that doesn't matter. what matters is what benefits him personally. the fact you have the career

servants coming up, they're holding up their oath to protect and preserve the united states. >> i was watching you heard as you heard some of the reactions to what happened when that tweet went out. walk us through witness intimidation. if it's not prosecutable, how does it change the flavor of what we'll see going forward. >> first of all, it should be prosecutorable. we all know that the olc memo says you can't indict a sitting president. but when i saw that witness intimidation via tweet in realtime while ambassador yovanovitch was mid testimony, as an old prosecutor, it made my blood boil. i mean, you have -- think about the interesting parallels yesterday. you had roger stone, one of trump's long-time friends, associates and advisers convicted in a court of law of witness tampering, the

president in realtime tampering with a witness who is testifying to congress, about, among other things, his misconduct. it john -- conjures up notions of -- when people apply for jobs in the trump administration and show their resumé, people say i wonder how good are you at intimidating witnesses? it's a lighthearted look at something that's deadly serious. roger stone on the one count of witness tampering for which he was convicted yesterday is facing 20 years in prison. enough is enough with the thug-like behavior from our government officials. >> i was on capitol hill yesterday, margaret brennan was up there as well. she sat down with the speaker of the house nancy pelosi. let's take a listen to what she had to say. >> he made a mistake and he knows her strength and he was trying to undermine it. i any part of it is his own

insecurity as an imposter. i think he knows full well that he's in that office way over his head and so he has to diminish everyone else. >> i turn to susan page who is writing a biography of the house speaker. she's so effectively been an advocate. >> and yet she was the most reluctant to go toward impeachment. she held back democratic forces who wanted to impeach the president until this ukraine matter erupted. she said then to me and others that then there was no choice, so clearly in her mind an impeachable offense. she's incredibly disciplined. she says nothing she does not intend to say. she said a couple of important things, imposter. that's a pretty fierce word. >> he's going to love that. >> that's questioning the legitimacy of trump's presidency. she's also talked about bribery and it's an effort to cast this whole ukraine affair in terms

anyone can understand. you don't need to know latin to know what bribery means. >> and that move from latin to english, something everybody can get. how did that moment change the course of the testimony yesterday, as you watched the republicans in particular, the tack they took in the hearing. what changed after that? >> the republicans went on the record yesterday saying trump did him no favors. and nothing gets under trump's more than a strong woman who keeps her composure. what it did was really illustrate trump's impact and effort to leverage intimidation in realtime against someone speaking about her 33 years of service, his irregular communication and back channels within ukraine, speaking about what she experienced behind closed doors. america thought those tweets were bad, what was she experiencing day to day from

trump and giuliani as they smeared her to world leaders who came to her and said watch your back? what is this, "godfather"? pelosi highlighted he's running scared now. >> andrew, there's been this debate, do the republicans attack on substance, on the procedure that's going on here? we saw procedure back and forth jumping in and trying to attack. >> we certainly saw them do that after bill taylor's testimony on wednesday, but that hearsay argument is going to be harder to make as people like david holmes, as we talked about, come in and testify and corroborate different aspects of it and do provide firsthand corroboration of this testimony. obviously when gordon sondland shows up on wednesday, that will be more firsthand confirmation of this phone call. that's what democrats are going

to look to to push back against these claims from republicans. >> from a busier-than-usual capital, thank you very much for the update, andrew. still to come, chairman of the house democratic caucus, and miss messaging on impeachment but first, roger stone guilty on all counts. could he have a great out of jail free card? great out of jail free card the van just talked. sales guy, give 'em the employee price, then gimme your foot. hands-free sliding doors, stow 'n go® seats. can your car do this? man, y'all getting a hook up and you don't even work here. don't act like i'm not doing y'all a favor. y'all should be singing my praises. pacificaaaaa! purchase and get $5,361 below msrp plus 0% financing for 60 months on the 2019 pacifica limited. financing for 60 months on the 2019 i need all the breaks, that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it.

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i'm david gura. a no good, very dad day for president trump turned worse when his long-time associate wronger stone was found guilty of self-en felonies. he joins a lot of people caught up in the russia probe to face prison time. the jury deliberated for nearly seven hours over two days before deciding unanimously. minutes later president trump weighed in on twitter. they now convicted roger stone of lying and wanting to jail him for years to come. his tweet meant many wondering if the president plans to pardon one of his chief defenders. we have not heard from roger stone because the judge did not lift a gag order prohibiting him from speaking publicly or using social media. matt jones joins us now. let's start first with the fact that roger stone slept in a warm bed last night, he'll be

sentenced in february. your take on what we saw yesterday. >> roger stone spent his entire career kind of one step ahead of the law. in some ways this was a lifetime achievement award for him to finally be found guilty of crimes yesterday. i'm struck by a few things. one, obviously this is juster in one of the president's close associates now going to prison. his campaign manager, deputy campaign managers, we've been through the list many times. the parallel of how roger stone behaved in the mueller investigation. he was convicted of lying to congress, of obstructing the investigation, of intimidate being witnesses, all things we are seeing play out in the impeachment investigation, where the president is trying to keep witnessing from coming forward, not turning over documents and intimidating witnesses by tweet as he did yesterday. gordon sondland is coming up to the hill next week who it seems

very much lied to congress. struck by the parallels between the way the president and his administration handled the first investigation and now this one. >> how did the people inquiry cast a shadow on the proceedings in that courtroom as you were there day in and day out listening to arguments of the witnesses? >> i've been in hundreds of courtroom, military and civilian over the 30 years i was prosecuting. the inside of a courtroom is the inside of a courtroom in my experien experience. i want to go back to one moment when you said roger stone got to sleep in a warm bed last night. the prosecutors, two of whom are my former colleagues from the d.c.u.'s prosecutor's office asked judge jackson to step hem back, confine him pending sentencing. judge jackson wouldn't do it. and i'll tell you, as i saw

that, the first thing that popped into my mind was that if roger stone was a person of color who had stolen a car and had just been convicted by a jury, the marshals would have been asking him for his belt and his shoe laces and they would have taken him to the d.c. jail. that's a problem. once we get a law abiding president back in office and a law enforcing attorney general, i think we need to deal with justice disparity. >> there's that and then there's his long-time friendship with the president as well. stone's fate now rests in part with trump who has the power to issue a pardon. he tweeted about the verdict within minutes of it being read in open court. this has been widely speculated about before this trial even began. >> it's a signal he sent to other allies, flynn. a signal to other staffers, following through on some of his policies, break whatever rules

you need to, i'll issue a pardon. it's something he falls on to regularly that americans should pay attention to. but to the point about white collar crimes leading people back to their warm beds at night, it's ridiculous that we have two justice systems based on socioeconomic status, based on race and this is honestly the reality here because we know even though all the crimes that roger stone has been convicted of now faces up to 50 years, he's not going to get that. >> we now have a conviction for roger stone. no question about that from the start, the case seemed so strong. but some of the mueller documentation had been held back because of the stone prosecution. i wonder now that he's convicted, will we see -- let me ask our legal expert, will we see some of these documents, some of the testimony that mueller had? >> we ought to see it very soon. it was redacted from the mueller report are there are rules about harm to an ongoing matter and that was the mueller case. there was a piece of the mueller

report where the president took a phone call where gates was the witness, took a phone call from someone, woo found out it was roger stone saying there is more wikileaks information coming and the president knew that before the public knew it. there are pages and pages that are blacked out. the president has sort of dangled these pardons out and it's influenced witnesses gordon sondland ought to be thinking about that right now. he's the one that would be thinking about it. if i were gordon sondland, i wouldn't make the choice to gamble on the president's pardons. while roger stone went home last night, paul manafort didn't get the pardon he was hoping for. if i'm gordon sondland, i'm not gambling on the president taking my side at political risk to himself. >> coming you, an update on the

house judiciary committee's efforts. taking the president to task for his confounding response for the impeachment inquiry. >> it's strange, it's bizarre, perplexing but not necessarily surprising because it's consistent with how donald trump basis. -- behaves. he says black is white, up is down, left is right, tries to confuse the american people, makes bold promises and prognostications but never really delivers. prognosticationr really delivers. (vo) the moth without hope, struggles in the spider's web. with every attempt to free itself, it only becomes more entangled. unaware that an exhilarating escape is just within reach. defy the laws of human nature. at the season of audi sales event.

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. as we've been discussing, lawmakers are preparing to hear more testimony this morning, a rare saturday deposition from mark sandy, a career white house official. the house intelligence committee is taking the lead on the investigation, then it will be up to the house judiciary committee to decide whether to draft articles of impeachment. congressman hakeem jeffries is a member of the committee and chairman of the house democratic caucus. i spent a good chunk of time with him yesterday for our series "up on the hill" and asked him about the timetable for impeachment. >> let me ask you about the timeline. i'm curious, when you go back home to brooklyn for thanksgiving, where are we going to be in this process? do you and your colleagues and leadership have a sense of what the timeline is at this point? >> speaker pelosi i think has consistently said that we will proceed expeditiously, we of

course will continue to proceed fairly and thoroughly at the same time and appropriately no timeline has been put on this inquiry in terms of a hard stop because our job is really simple, follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the constitution, present the truth to the american people. the truth will dictate the timeline and when the impeachment inquiry ends. >> take us into that world now. you live there, too. you're at the hearings as they unfold. where are you in the process of thinking about articles of impeachment, drafting articles of impeachment. what's the work of that committee at this point? >> that work hasn't begun yet. >> you personally, though, must have some fwhouts whthoughts ab could be in articles of

impeachme impeachment? abuse of power? >> since i have the dual role, i don't want to prejudge what the articles may or may not be, but certainly i think in addition to the extraordinary abuse of power and the evidence continues to mount in that regard, that that is precisely what the president has done, we also have reason to be concerned about the obstruction are a constitutionally mandated impeachment inquiry. >> i hear what you're saying about what you've heard in the hearings, what you've read in the depositions, your conviction that there was abuse of power here. you can talk about the fact that witnesses haven't shown up, they've ignored subpoena. why not just say you have the grounds for articles of impeachment at this point? in other words, what are you waiting for, what are your colleagues waiting for, what is the deliberative process preventing you and others from saying we've got the goods, at

least those two articles at this point? >> the president deserves the opportunity to try to demonstrate his innocence, to provide an explanation for the unprecedented pressuring of a foreign leader to target an american citizen, provide an explanation for the withholding of the $391 million in military aid that we allocated to ukraine because it's in the united states' national security interest. provide an explanation for what appears to be the corrupt intent behind your behavior. and we want to give donald trump every opportunity to do so. why? because the country deserves the opportunity to hear the entire story. the problem for donald trump is that to date nothing exculpatory has come forward. it may or may not. we're going to give him every opportunity to do so. >> going back to the timetable

on that point, though, how long are you going to wait for that? he has the opportunity. subpoenas have been extended. people have been subpoenaed to come forward and testify and they haven't. your patience, your colleagues' patience has to wear thin. >> witnesses who have relevant was in have to testify still. lieutenant colonel vindman on the call, scheduled to be here next week. he need an opportunity to tell his story to the american people and the president deserves to make sure his defenders have an opportunity to cross-examine him. we have provided that opportunity and we'll continue to provide that opportunity. >> we're going to have more from that interview with congressman hakeem jeffries in the next hour. he's been optimistic impeachment will be supported. i asked him how that has

changed. and more on the dramatic call ambassador bill taylor described between president trump and his man in brussels and everywhere else in europe apparently, ambassador gordon sondland. >> president trump wanted mr. zelensky this a public box. >> would you, could you in a box? would you, could you live on fox? will you give me dirt on joe? will you do the quid pro quo? verizon up gave us tickets to the super bowl! we were able to meet shawn mendes. verizon got me into the nfl combine. they don't even sell tickets to this thing. (announcer) verizon knows you love live music and sports. we got to be this far away from the stage. (announcer) that's why we give you access to more jaw-dropping experiences, including nfl games and events. i have never had a vip experience before like that. probably the best moment of my life. (announcer) switch now and you'll get access to thousands of tickets on us and get up to $750 toward our best phones. because the network more people rely on gives you more.

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department, you've been there for 33 years, you've won numerous awards, been appointed as an ambassador three times by both republican and democratic presidents and the state department would not issue a statement in support of you against false allegations because they were concerned about a tweet from the president of the united states? >> that's my understanding. >> looking back on his comments in hindsight, do you see how that might create a perception that an influence ukrainian is advocating against candidate trump? >> just what? i'm sorry. >> he was out to get him. he said some real nasty things. >> yeah, sometimes that happens on social media. >> sometimes that happens on social media. susan page, let me start with you. how out of the norm is it to have this? you've covered a lot of congressional hearings. what are the benefits of doing

it this way? the narrative is conveyed to those in the hearing rooms. >> two things were unusual, the extended amount of time at the start and so much time that was ce ceded to the lawyers. members of congress are usually not willing to cede their time. so that is a sign of the discipline with which adam schiff has approached these hearse. >> stylistically walk us through the difference between those lawyers, steve, not a public figure, has elected to stay in the position he's had, he's worked with jim jordan on oversight. dan goldman, who used to be a legal analyst here on msnbc, before that had a distinguished career, prosecuted a lot of crime. >> i'm a little jealous because

the rules of evidence don't apply. he can ask his own witnesses leading questions. that's prohibited in court. when you hear a former prosecutor ask a friendly witness, so let me get this straight, first of all, objection sustained in court but you know he basically has the opportunity to present all of the information in the most concise and compelling way and just have the witness say that's right. so that's a real benefit. and i don't think it's an unfair benefit. i mean, this is not a court of law. so i think he performed really beautifully. castor, i don't know his background, i don't know if he's tried many cases. he didn't seem to have a really good grasp at how to control a witness on cross-examination, an unfriendly or hostile witness. now, ambassador yovanovitch was anything but a hostile or unfriendly witness.

she was just like this beautiful, just the facts career public servant who when she had to give the republicans a point in a truthful answer, she did that without battling. and i don't think castor knew how to handle that. >> part of the difficulty of this job is distilling thousands of pages of these deposition noose a narrative arc. something that stood out when goldman was leading bill taylor through his testimony, he knew how to go from 2,500 pages down to something -- 45 minutes sounds like a lot of time but it's not. >> it is not. can you tell a story in 45 minutes? and what we've seen from republican counsel, they did not. and did the counsel know the answers to the questions he was asking. it's like where are you going with this? we've seen from dem counsel goldman it has been surgical and precise. one of the things that jumps out is the juxtaposition of

witnesses here. when i see yovanovitch, grace, direct, clearly succinct, i think back to someone like cavanaugh, screaming, yelling, shouting. look at this juxtaposition. it really does show something that i think we can really see where sondland falls in the middle next week when he's up front. how is he going to behave when he comes under pressure for, one, having to again explain how his now refreshed memory is presenting new information to him and then to the public. >> we come back in a moment. the power of hearsay. how gordon sondland's testimony could be a game changerthat's taking place this coming week. e taking place this coming week. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations,

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bolton. i suspect if you have a problem with hearsay, you'd have a lot more direct testimony and direct evidence if you weren't blocking that ability. >> in other words, there are some firsthands available. members making their case against gop evidence. the legal term was front and center after the acting u.s. ambassador to ukraine testified about a previously unknown phone conversation overheard by a member of his staff between president trump and u.s. diplomat gordon sondland. >> following the call with president trump, the member of my staff asked ambassador sondland what president trump thought about ukraine. ambassador sondland responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of biden, which giuliani was pressing for. >> hearsay is an out of court statement made in court to prove the truth of the matter asserted. we'll get help with that in a sec. nod admissible in court, there are exceptions that allow

hearsay evidence, such as congressional hearing the statements provided by taylor are expected to be addressed before the house committee this coming week. the definition itself with hearsay, this is something we've heard as we played there over and over again as we see the republican response to this coalesce. >> i can't do any better than you just did. i felt like i was in crim law 101. i wish we could set this will once and for all. when the representative jordans of the world complain that we're not hearing from the firsthand witnesses, if i were adam schiff, i would say, hang on. let me get this down because what you're saying is that the president is obstructing justice by prohibiting the firsthand witnesses from testifying. of time we hear hearsay complaints, we should receive that has the president is hiding the ball, plain and simple. so as far as i'm concerned, keep complaining about no firsthand

witnesses being called because it falls squarely at the feet of trump. >> thanks. that's what you heard from mike quigley saying there are people how the there who could testify on this, that's what i heard from hakeem jeffries as well. that's what they're waiting for temperature there is the expectations that maybe some of these folks would want to say their piece and defend themselves. >> the other thing you should hear is what about the substance of the argument. you're arguing about hearsay rules of evidence because you do not want to talk about the substance of the arguments. they should subpoena all the people who were in that restaurant in kiev because apparently trump was talking so loud, we could probably get other witnesses who overheard that conferring. >> how do we piece more of this together? we understand there's another person who overheard that call in an opening statement last night that was so loud he had to

move the phone away from his head. >> he heard trump's voice point blanc. he heard it from the president's mouth this is corroboration that trump was directly, centrally available. so what needs to come from this is we have hoemz, we have taylor who put it out in public, now what does sondland say? is he going to yet again modify his previous closed door deposition to say yet again my memory has been rerkd and now holmes is coming forward. but there were also reports on friday who say a second person at that table is willing to come forward as well. it really hinders on what sondland decides to say. if he's going to go on record and say, yes, trump said this. >> susan page and all of you, thank you for being with me. i'll be back with activist cal

penn whose latest subject deals with timely. that is all tomorrow starting at 8:00 eastern time right here on msnbc. up ahead we'll go back to capitol hill as lawmakers prepare for that saturday morning deposition with an omb official who has chosen to defy the white house's order not to testify. garrett haake is on capitol hill. we'll hear from a lawmaker who has a hand in drafting articles of impeachment. but first, the moment that contentious committee hearing was gaveled to a close will go down in history for for the fireworks on the dias but for the way the american people hermded the career of a public servant, 33 years who years who's been with the state department who sat for five hours and delivered her testimony. here was that moment on capitol hill. [ cheers and applause ]

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have defied subpoenas. they have not answered questions from lawmakers. what mark sandy says today could be pivotal. his signature appears on one of the documents that held up millions of dollars of military aid. eye-opening testimony from george kent and ambassador bill taylor to ambassador marie yovanovitch who was recalled by the president after what she calls was a smear campaign. millions of americans have been watching the evidence and contrary to tweets and retweets, president trump says he is not paying attention. >> i did not watch it. i'm too busy to watch it. a witch hunt. it's a hoax. i'm too busy to watch it. >> members of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador sondland about the investigations. ambassador sondland told

president trump ukrainians were ready to move forward. >> are you talking about the witch hunt? is that what you mean? i hear it's a joke. i haven't watched it for one minute. >> he asked president what he thought about ambassador sondland. he responded president trump cares more about the investigation of biden which giuliani was looking for. >> it appears they were infecting u.s. engagement with ukraine. >> this is a sham and shouldn't be allowed. it was a situation that was caused by people that shouldn't have allowed it to happen. >> up this morning, we have our guests. he served under secretary of state clinton. and we also have the author and

co-author of the book "the hill to die on." and on our saturday morning we find our colleague garrett haake on capitol hill. steve cohen joins us this morning from his district, memphis, tennessee. congressman, let me hear your reaction to what you heard this week. you sit on the judiciary committee. you're going to have the responsibility of going forward. what did you take away from the public hearings you heard this week? >> i felt like america was on trial. i felt that the two diplomats who spoke, mr. kent and ambassador taylor in first hearings were spectacular. they were representative of the type of people like dick burns and others who have served us, knowledgeable in the field of foreign service who have effectively represented business and personal business overseas.

they were spectacular. ambassador yovanovitch, as chris wallace said t last remaining soul on fox, if you didn't get emotional about that, you didn't have a pulse. she's a true american patriot as are the others, but yovanovitch especially. they show how americans standing up for our country and principle are standing up admirable and are being viciously torn apart by our president who doesn't understand civility and doesn't understand quality and patriotism among our civilians. i thought the case was made well. speaker pelosi brought up bribery, which is one of the particular causes in the constitution. i'm sure that will be one of the charges. that's what it is. it was a bribe. it's no different than an

alderman accepting money from someone for a zoning case. it was that wrong. >> i want to ask you how you reacted to the kbhencomments fr ambassador bill taylor. hakeem jeffries said it's a plastic thing, new thing, you're learning new things, following new leads. that was a crystalline point, wasn't it, when he brought up evidence that was not in the 2,500 pages of transcript we have seen. >> right. it's not like butterfield coming in and saying there was a taping in the white house. now it seems three our four other diplomats and others in the restaurant and kiev and trump's voice and odessa, who knows. there are witnesses who say the conversation existed and the president talked to this person on his cellphone and against all rules of decorum and safety for

the american president's conversations. there were supposedly russian agents all around. it was amazing the president was so loose. he has no knowledge of these things and he doesn't care. he's not only lawless. he's reckless. >> help us understand the importance of that phone call as we move forward. david holmes, foreign service officer testifying yesterday behind closed doors about that phone call. he was there on the terrace at that restaurant in kiev talking about the fact that president trump was so loud on that phone call ambassador gordon sondland had to move the phone so far away from his ear that those at the tanld braps those around them knew who that was, that that's who ambassador sondland was talking to. describe the importance of that phone call as we move forward? >> it helps let people know since the primary witnesses to the conversations he had with

the president had been told not to testify. it shows the president's intent. the president's intent wasn't about corruption in crew crane. the president's main purpose and main interest was the biden investigation. so he was not holding up the money based on corruption. the fact is we give money to iraq, one of the most corrupt countries in the -- we give money to afghanistan, one of the most corrupt countries. we giving money to all kinds of corrupt countries. so the idea we don't give money to countries because we're concerned about corruption is just another one of trump's lies. it's not true. it shows he didn't care about corruption. he was holding up military aid because he wanted to get something on biden, and all that was was a conspiratorial theory that's been debunked by everybody but -- you can call me jim, you can call me joe or whatever that guy's name was,

you know. >> let me ask you. what's going on in the house judiciary committee at this point? i tried to pin down hakim jeem jeffri jeffries. are you more comfortable in saying that? what's the hesitation or holdup at this point? >> well, you know, this is a serious process, and we need to listen to the evidence. when it comes to us, we need to make a decision on each -- and whatever articles are offered on the basis of the evidence that we have garner and given us through intelligence committee and what may be adduced through a judiciary committee hearing, but, you know, even anybody can see that the case is being made for obstruction of congress, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power, which including

bribery. those facts are just there. it's impossible to deny it and there's enough evidence already there that shows it, and i think sandy today in his deposition will probably help show the omb activity. his signature was on one of the articles and his coming forward. he's civil service and it's still heroic. it will help make the case to the american people. he's lied to us. he's said on an earlier show he hasn't listened to one minute of this. if you look at his twitter page, he's tweeted and tweeted and tweeted about it. he tweeted during congress's statement and during ambassador yovanovitch's testimony. he's glued to it. the man's a narcissist. he's there. >> the gentlemen from memphis, steve cohen. thank you very much. >> let me tell you something, david. chris a. has never sehayes has

song. >> you got that. i appreciate it. >> they all did it. and elvis could have done it. >> congressman, thank you very much. let me turn to you. there will be a backstory on that after the story on twitter after the show. let me get to what he was talking about there if i could, where i was trying to tease out of him. jerry nadler is waiting. that's what's happening now. when is that going to pick up? when do we translate to what we've seen over the course of this week? >> we don't know the answer to that. we know next week we're going to have a series of very high-profile hearings including gordon sondland, fiona hill wrapping up the week. and then it's an open question. we go away for thanksgiving week and come back and they'll theoretically pick up where the intelligence committee left off, pick up with this mountain of evidence the intelligence committee has put together and

put together some sort of impeachment article. it needs to be done. what we've seen so far is the judiciary committee has been signed here. they're a secondary committee at this point, secondary to adam schiff and his intelligence committee that doesn't seem important to everybody in america but is important because clearly nancy pelosi has more trust in adam schiff and the people on that committee than she does on the judiciary committee which they stumbled in terrell stages of this impeachment. we're going to play some more of my interview with hakeem jeffries. but he clarified how important it was that lewandowski came forward. he said, e don i said, i don't want to be crass about it but is jerry nadler being punished and he said no. what have we learned about the

way he's driving this? >> what's interesting is before the public hearings start and private hearings started nancy pelosi was looking for adam schiff to lead this because of his intelligence background and because of the nature of the wrongdoing president trump has been part of. i don't think it's necessarily surprising adam schiff is leading this. but we see the way in which he takes a thoughtful practical approach to this, trying to maintain some amount of decorum. the republicans are putting on a performance they know president trump will love. >> let's see some of that performance. we've got a montage of hits from the testimony on friday. let's take a witness. >> the democrats staged six weeks of depositions in the basement of the capitol like some kind of strange cult. >> counsel, i have indulged you with extra time, but my indulge

answer ens is running out. >> our indulge jann jans with you ran out a long time ago. >> the gentlewoman will suspend. you're not recognized. >> i just recognized. >> under house 660. >> the ranking member yielded time to another member of congress. >> that's not accurate. >> he's right. >> we talked about the narrative flow. dan goldman leading a witness through testimony to get through the beginning, middle, and end of a story. then you have interruptions like that. you have congressman stefanik trying to get in against the rules of the committee as set forth. >> there are certainly people who watched these live and will watch them later on on youtube. what matters is the clips, sound

bites. there are only three groups that matter. one is republicans in the senate, voters in michigan, pennsylvania, ohio, maybe wisconsin, maybe florida, and the president's base. so for the president's base, they got what they wanted. the white house does not feel like republicans in the senate are shifting at all. they don't see anyone's minds changing because they have the base still locked in behind president trump. he still has 80%, 90% approval rating among republicans and they don't feel there was anything that came out this week that would change voters' minds in those key places, michigan, pennsylvania, and ohio, to the extent that they are paying attention. and the thinking is in a way that if you have not chosen your sides yet, if you're an independent voter, you're probably not watching five hours of testimony. you might see 30 seconds on cnn when you're in a bar or airport, but the sort of, you know, malleable voters in the middle

aren't necessarily tuning in to this. that's the way the white house advisers and president are seeing this. >> let me put this out there. i put it out on twitter yesterday. i'm curious what you think about this. there has been so much written going into the hearing about the gender dynamics that would take place, a lot of people invoking what we saw with brett kavanaugh's confirmation hearing how do you rate what you saw yesterday with her interrupting five or six times? >> it's clear just from being in the room that republicans want stefanik to be a big part of the questioning. they want her to be one of the faces of that. the dynamics of the committee alone are interesting. you had jim jordan moved onto the committee solely for the purpose of defending president trump. but he's someone you could argue would be too aggressive to go after someone like ambassador yovanovitch, a woman on the stand, very soft spo-spokesoft-.

the stylistic approach of the former ressler wrestler would not be a good look. the goal is not to change the minds of people. it's to get them to change their channels. if you get bored of this, it grosses you out and reminds you of the worst stuff of 2016 and you turn it off, that's the win for the republicans. that's if framework in how they have defended the president in these public hearings. >> garrett, it's great to see you on capitol hill on a saturday morning it's rare thing. walk us through. we're not going see very much. we're going to see a witness make his way to a closed door hearing. what are we going to learn from mark sandy today? >> sandy is interesting. he's a longtime official at omb. it's washington scandal 101 to follow the money. that's the one piece of this

that democrats have not been able to do thus far. if you look at the witnesses that have come forth so far, you've had state department officials, a surprising number of officials connected to the national security council, but you have not had people come forward who have had their hands on this money at some point in the process. sandy is the first of those. so he could potentially tell democrat as great deal about where the money was going, why it was held up, and the concerns in the building, whether it was done so illegally or not. we know that from one of the defense department officials there was some concern it was slim illegal to hold up this money in the way the president asked for. sandy could shed light on all of that. notably the attorney said he did not come with an opening statement. but, zbe, it's one more piece of the puzzle for democrats and a critical one when you get back to the core of the testimony, which is about the money for dirt part of this.

yovanovitch's story is super interesting, but it's a prequel to the core of the impeachment inquiry. >> you have sandy working in the white house for different presidents and he's told not to testify. he's going to testify. you had members testifying, reluctantly so, but they showed up. help us with the arc of that story which is they're doing what they think is right by the country. >> yeah. i mean i had -- it sounds corny, but i had the honor of working with thousands of state department personnel including ambassadors and foreign service officers under secretary clinton, and these folks don't want to be there. the last place they want to be is testifying about their job, drawing attention to themselves. they're not looking to grandstand. they're not looking for the spotlight, and that's important because that goes to their credibility and just their dedication to job. these are folks that when they

see something, say something. they all make the important point. important to take a step back nchl 20 back. in 20 of the 28 years, you look at folks like george kent, bill taylor, they weren't guessing that hillary clinton would come along or barack obama. they joined for service, not for the commander in chief or the president. and i think what you're seeing is obviously donald trump -- they all like to rant and rave about the deep state. what you're seeing is they're basically antigens. our government and all of our institutions are being overwhelmed by someone with complete disregard, and he's being pretty successful about it, but these are the people who fight disease in the body, and it's great to see so many of them. the whistle-blower first and now

a steady stream. this is endless. we need to remember donald trump is being impeached. we can decide who it's good for. it's not good for donald trump. he's going to wake up every day for the next three, four, five months being impeached. at the end of the day, he may have the same job, but it's bad. it's a degree of bad. there's nothing good. >> let me ask you. there was this 0 for 3 video. is there any reckoning happening in the white house, him intervening by the way he did, call it witness intimidation, call it whatever, inserting himself? >> there is not the first time he's been accused of witness intimidation. all throughout the mueller investigation he was tweeting attacks at michael cohen and they saw no consequences of that. this is a continuing pattern of behavior. it was interesting to see the president evolve over the week. you play the clip wednesday, he

was too busy to watch, busy presidenting, being presidential. his advisers said, please do. they used the clinton example where clinton had his attack dogs on tv out there fighting for him while clinton was supposed to be looking presidential, working for the american people, and that was viewed as effective when you look at what bill clinton's approval rating was when he left office. there are other factors that play here, but that's the model they use. wednesday the president was able to mostly stick to that script and then we saw the hold on that discipline release on thursday with this rally. he was, you know -- starting going after the witnesses, and friday it was full-blown trump. we had very few public appearances that day and it was back to the twitter trump that his advisers were saying please, please don't. >> his behavior this you talk about is as relevant to the jury

in the house and the senate because they might onwhen they see him and say okay buchl when they see witness tampering and see that he can't help himself, that's part of the overall indictment. >> but it's what he's been doing his entire presidency. no consequences. they don't like it, but it's not causing any issues there. still ahead, new reporting on the process. "washington post's" reporter joins us next. "washington post's" reporter joins us next. erty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liber♪y

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this is up. i'm david gura. we have new details. in august the president claimed his dur real golf resort had emerged as a top contender after secret service and others visited several seitz. th agents were told to act late in the game. contrary to president trump's claim that searches were extensive and they preferred doral, he said the property does present challenges followed by a redaction addressing security concerns. joining us now, david.

it's not going to happen. but what did you learn from the emails that were released? >> this is one of those satisfying experiences where you wonder what happened behind the scenes and now we know. >> you had a hunch. >> yeah. out of all the reports, they say trump's doral was the best. we learned that wasn't true. that they had picked ten other sites and looked at the other sites and narrowed them down and all of a sudden the secret service was told, axe north carolina anda add doral. actually that contestant is allowed to choose who wins. so we always expected -- >> now edging out mar-a-lago.

>> we also expected doral was given an unfair advantage and this shows you how unfair that was. >> jake sherman, take us back to that two-day period. and what happened at the end of that? >> i think republican lawmakers acro across the board said what are you doing? why? why is this your move here, and i think even more notably there was going to be an effort on capitol hill by democrats to prevent any money, legislatively let any money go. it would have been a fight much like his wall was a fight and other things in his administration. it was a fight he avoid thankfully for republicans. >> lexi, we heard the old song. it happens over and over again.

>> he doesn't like to face the facts because the facts often do not help him in these cases. he doesn't consider the fact this would give him lots of free advertising for his resort, would likely drive up business in the future because of this, and, again, based on david's reporting as to how doral was selected, it's clearly for personal gain. this is just another example of that. what is the definition of crazy? saying the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results. says the same thing every time and expect different results, and it's not going to happen. >> what was the world reaction to this? it was held in the past at camp david, beautiful places in france, south cannes.

>> there's a large interagency process. this's a tremendous amount of traffic at the state department and others to say there's a benefit. underpinning this all is the fn ch financial strain he's under. >> thank you for the assist. i wanted to ask you about that. when it comes to doral, it hasn't been in good shape since the president got into politics. >> that's correct. between 2015 and 2017, the profits dropped 70%. that's an incredible decline in just two years and the trump organization's own criticism is

the trump ramp. it's driving people away. there's mold on all the pool chairs. that was in one recent report. not connected to any major hotel chain. it has a lot of disadvantages. and the president's name tox fig really pushed it over the edge. it could have used the money in june in miami, which is not a popular time to visit. >> david fahrenthold, thank you very much. coming up after the break, courting a dictator. why the president went out of his way to praise president erdogan while others tried to pour cold water on the relationship. first, roger stone found guilty on all charges, seven felonies, stemming from the russia investigation. it took just a few hours for the jury to convict stone over lying and witness tampering and obstruction of justice. the president jumping to his defense calling it a double

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this week president trump hosted the president of turkey at the white house after a firestorm of criticism for his actions in northern syria. the chorus for calls for economic sanctions has gotten louder as republicans including lindsey graham have broken ranks with the president. president trump praised erdogan calling him an ally. >> turkey as everyone knows is a great ally and a strategic partner known around the world. they continue to expand and to grow. direct engagement of diplomacy between our nations are essential to ening sure a future of peace and prosperity and promise for our citizens. i want to thank the president for his partnership and cooperation as we work to build a more stable and peaceful and prosperous middle east. we've assured each other that turkey will continue to uphold

what it's supposed to uphold. i'm a big fan of the president, to tell you that. >> well, this is not the first time president trump has given president erdogan some leeway, benefit of the doubt. don't for get get the bizarre letter he sent in october urging president erdogan to work out a good deal, saying he would call later. president trump's ties to turkey run deep. jer jared kushner has a working relationship. mr. ambassador, i just want to get your reaction. i wonder how you watched that press conference unfold, the characterization of president erdogan as a friend. i'll caveat this by saying it was not the most watched press conference considering what was happening across town. but a reaction from the rhetoric

you heard from president trump this week. >> i thought it was unfortunate that president trump embraced president erdogan. erdogan has put more journalists and generals in jail than anybody else in jail. of course, he's imported a russian air defense system right in the heart of a nato air defense system, and his invasion over northern siri over the last 30 days has caused a lot of people to be killed, brought about a lot of refugees. americans' lives were in peril there. sometimes the president has to push back, even turkey. they're the most difficult ally we have in the world. for the president to embrace him and say i'm a fan of yours was unpresidential and didn't meet american interests. >> i want to read this. turkey remains an important part of the united states but the day the united states aspires to a

model country are over. what is the relationship with turkey like at this point given the history and what happened over northern syria over the last few weeks? >> well, what's happened is turkey has become an authoritarian state. democracy is being snuffed out. he's also brought islam into the heart of the government and turkey historically going all the way back had been secular. this has been really difficult for the united states, and, of course, we have interests there. we have the air base, which is important to the united states. turkey's harboring several million refugees from iraq and syria. that's of interest to the european union. you have to work with them. there are times when the american president needs to push back against our american allies. maybe not so much publicly, but internally, privately. he wanted to make nice. it wasn't just a missed opportunity. it's a mishandling in my judgment of a very important

roichlt. >> philippe reines, ben writes and talks about meeting with him, how they would try to avoid these meetings with the turks because of what could happen and all the grievances the turkish would list. is that true? the president doesn't know what he's dealing with? >> oh, absolutely. they're not just hellos. they go in with a list of to-dos and things to discuss and things to make a motion or progress on, and it's clear trump sits in these meetings and they probably shoot the breeze. when you look at this. erdogan gets everything he wants by saying, hey, we're good

buddies and we're close, and that's a real problem, yes, because whether it's erdogan, xi, or others, they're shrewd people. i've been in meetings. yes, they've got a long list of particulars including secret service putting their hands on erdogan at a u.n. general assembly, and they're tough and we're not tough with them. he just fawns over them. >> alexi, i don't want to lose sight where we are. this is part and parcel of the conversation we're having with ukraine, the way president deals with others. >> that's exactly right. it's the way he comes out and talks about it in public. earlier this week axios came out and talked about the meeting that took a wild turn when erdogan took out an ipad showing

propaganda video showing them acting as terrorists. for president trump to watch and not say anything and coming out to say, everything is great, that's antithetical to our benefit. it makes us in a weaker position as philippe was saying. >> it's hard to say it was even in trump's best interest. >> jake, what about you in representing capitol hill? what do you think about making hard choices? >> i'd say capitol hill is the last in the traditional foreign policy sense. lindsey graham no matter what you might think of him is sort of like john mccain. i was on this trip with mike pompeo and mike pence to turkey

a couple of weeks ago when they hashed out this deal. to send your secretary of state and vice president to turkey to cut a deal with an uncertain end game with a leader that we don't fully trust, i mean just sending those two people, two top people besides the president to the government of turkey is a massive statement of a confidence in erdogan to go to his doorstep to cut a deal, wit as stunning view to see them there. >> ambassador burns journeying us. thank you, i appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, don't veer too far left. could the latest candidate to join this week be the answer to that warning? we'll see. that's next. that warning we'll see. that's next. ♪'cause no matter how far away you roam.♪ ♪when you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪

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"this is up," i'm david gura. just as the field of democrats were getting smaller, two more jumped in. deval patrick and also michael bloomberg. bloomberg is running at 4% with a 25% favorability. the massachusetts democrat says he plans to focus his efforts on new hampshire, but without the deep pockets of bloomberg, he faces an uphill battle in any state. uphill battle in any state.

jake, let me start with you. this is a reaction to joe biden being a front-runner or it's a reaction to their dissatisfaction with senator warren or sanders. >> deval patrick has not registered yet. i imagine, i don't know, you might know better, he's in the 10, 20 -- >> pretty low. >> i still don't know who he is. >> if deval patrick -- >> sounds like a fund manager. >> if deval patrick had gotten in eight months ago, he'd have a compelling story. >> what's changed? >> joe biden has gotten a weakened status. you've seen the surging of the left, and i think there is a theory among the democratic kind of gray beards and head scratchers as there always are. philippe could make mention of that. >> he's making fun of your

beard, by the way. >> with the dissatisfaction of twho those two polls. but to look at that and say i'm the answer thapd have no mon-- have no money -- >> if you're sitting out there and they say, man, i wish there were two more options. >> right. >> there are so many who can't recognize photos of kamala harris and cory booker. they can see elizabeth warren but they don't know what state she represents. with deval patrick and michael bloomberg, there's a real conversation about what kind of candidate they want. biden's brand is more about nostalgia than it is about policy and being moderate. we've seen the ways pete has moved more toward the center, i think, because he see as lane for himself. now he's in fourth place. but that's also sort of him

recognizing a way to make a lane for himself. now deval patrick and michael bloomberg are looking at data, they're talking to obama. they're like, i can bring something not offered on the table, but i don't know if that's going to be convincing enough to people. >> philippe, you're been a great guest. i was upset when you went on tucker's show. take a look at this. >> well, ambushed on "up." >> if she still thought that all, if she thought she had the best odds of beating donald trump, i think she'd think about it long and run. she's not running because she has any anxiety about the democratic field. she really like as lot of the people running. she knows them well. she thought about some of them as her vice president. >> for those who don't

understand or dwhoenwho don't w fox, scripts were ripped to make room for this. let's take a listen to what she had to say. >> as i say, never say never. i will certainly tell you, i'm from enormous pressure from many, many people to think about it, but as of this moment sitting here in this studio talking to you, that's absolutely not in my plans. >> absolutely not in her plans. can you make it so we rip up the scripts for the rest of the day? >> never say never and not in my plans. >> you know, as i said on fox -- >> you had a nuanced answer. >> it's not a nuanced answer. it's a very honest answer in that i'm being very honest. if i said she's not thinking about it, that would not be true. look, it's somewhere between

highly unlikely and zooerks a lot closer to anything, but not zero. >> on a log rhythmic scale. >> but not zero. to tie it into the larger thing, yes, i don't see the theory of the case for michael bloomberg. i see it a little for deval patrick but very low. they're assessing the field accurately. you don't have to be negative toward the front-runner or the people doing well by also just seeing that it's very fluid and that it's not settled and there is room for people. again, i'm not sure why michael bloomberg thinks he's the solution to that. but there's also a human element to this. these are both people who decided earlier in the year not to run. i think there's an element of people watching wiftfully and thinking, i should have. what's the downside? in terms of hillary, i think a year ago she thought the same thing she thought three years

ago, four years ago that she'd be the best president, and a few things have changed. one is we're in a bigger mess. tlanld's a premium in her mind and what it will take to fix things. not just win, but fix things. look. the beauty of the process or the pain of the process is when people jump in, one person gets to decide and 15 million get to decide who wins. who cares if there's 15, 16, 19. >> philippe reines, thank you for that. msnbc and the "washington post" hosting the next debate. that's wednesday starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern time on msnbc. after the break, up on the hill. more on my interview with hakeem jeffries and how his party plans to respond to the response to the republican impeachment. o th the republican impeachment thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer,

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office of management and budget to testify. two other members in that department has defied subpoenas to testify in the impeachment investigation. >> yesterday i was on capitol hill where yovanovitch was testifying before the committee. that committee and congressman adam schiff are leading the impeachment committee. jeffery social security a member of the judiciary committee and he is responsible for shaping the message surrounding the impeachment inquiry. you'll hear them talking about bribery. up on the hill i asked him about the republican response to what witnesses have said so far. >> they've seen what happens when you cross the president. he will endorse against you in a primary and you are likely to be wiped out. unfortunately, what we've seen is that too many of my republican colleagues, not all of them, but too many of them have been willing to put party

over patriotism and that's a sad moment for us here in the country. >> you have made cover up caucus a hashtag and memorably in a tweet in response to proposed witnesses republicans put forward. you said get lost. are you at all afraid of the message that -- >> i tried to show some constraint in the context of that message, by the way. >> are you at all afraid of the message that sends to republicans that might be approaching this with an open mind who see that as you sort of foreclosing on them wanting them to seek answers to get to a point you want them to get to? >> get lost was a specific reference to the desire to call hunter biden as a witness. we're not going to go down that road again as both speaker pelosi and adam schiff have made clear. they essentially want to try to do to our potential nominee or any nominee on democratic side what was done to hillary

clinton. muddy up the waters, project corruption when it doesn't exist, and try to create a false narrative. >> you look at the vote that kicked this off. along party lines largely. will you get republicans on board in the end, do you think? in september you're optimistic about that. do you think now that's likely to happen? >> i think it's possible. and we are certainly of the view that as the evidence continues to be presented in this public context and in the absence of anything exculpatory to explain the president's behavior, in other words, why did he pressure a foreign government to target an american citizen for political gain? why did he direct president zelensky to have followup conversations with rudolph giuliani who is not a member of the state department, not an ambassador, not a part of the

diplomatic core. these are questions that will continue to be presented over the next few weeks and the burden is on the president to some degree to answer them. >> thanks very much to my panel this hour. it's the donuts, they won't stop talking. >> coming up at the top of the hour, joy reid has more of our impeachment coverage in just a moment. hment coverage in stju a moment ause ] thank you. it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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that's it for me today. thanks very much for watching. "am joy" with joy reid starts right now. >> our ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray. and shady interests, the world over have learn how little it talks to remove an attorney ambassador who does not give them what they want. >> the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking investigator sondeland about the investigations. he told president trump the ukranians were ready to move forward. >> politically motivated investigations were now infecting relationships with ukraine. >> good morning and welcome to

"am joy," live from washington, d.c. where the house just capped off an historic first week of televised hearings in the impeachment investigation of donald trump. just moments ago mark sandy, a career official at the white house office of management and budget has arrived for a closed door deposition. sandy is the first omb official to defy white host orders not to cooperate with the unquirery. and that's significant because omb is the office responsible for implementing trump's order to block the military aid congress had appropriated for ukraine. eight more key witnesses are slated to testify in open hearings next week. and instead of helping himself by i don't know, staying quiet and doing the job of being president, donald trump just keeps digging himself in deeper. on friday, just as