allow you to respond. >> thank you. you were asked directly whether you would send our troops to mexico to fight cartels and your answer was yes. the fact checkers can check this out. but your point about judgment is absolutely correct. our commander in chief does need to have good judgment. and what you've just pointed out is that you would lack the courage to meet with both adversaries and friends, to ensure that peace and national security of our nation. i take the example of those leaders who have come before us, leaders like jfk who met with khrushchev, like roosevelt who met with stalin. >> like donald trump who met with kim. >> like reagan who met and worked with gorbachev. these issues of national security are incredibly important. i will meet with and do what is necessary to make sure that no more of our brothers and sisters in uniform are needlessly sent into harm's way fighting regime change wars that undermine our

national security. i'll bring real leadership and experience to the white house. >> congresswoman -- >> the american people understand that the political system we have today is corrupt. and it is not just voter suppression which cost the democratic party a governorship here in this state. not just denying black people and people of color the right to vote, but we also have a system through citizens united which allows billionaires to buy elections. so what we need to do, simple and straightforward. in every state in this country through the federal government, if you are 18 you have a right to vote. end of discussion. we have to overturn citizens united. we need to move toward public funding of elections. >> on this last point, mr. steyer. >> i agree exactly with what

bernie said. but i want to talk about how we're going to win in 2020. i don't mean to change the subject but i think it's sort of important that the democratic party not only beat donald trump in 2020 but have a sweeping victory across the country. and what that's going to mean is turnout. in the united states of america the democratic party keeps talking about trying to persuade a few people who are republicans to like us when up to half the people don't vote at all because they think neither party tell, the truth, no one deals with my issues, the system is broken, why would we vote? but what we've find next gen america is that is the start of a conversation about why votes are so important. and if you look at 2018 and flipping the house, what really happened was democratic voting went up by 3/4. in the 38 congressional districts where next gen america was turning out young people, the turnout went up by more than

100%. more than double. so for us to win, for everybody on this stage, for whoever's the candidate to have a senate that's democratic, for us to have the sweeping victory that we -- >> mr. steyer, thank you. >> -- will have next year. it's a turnout question. we'll have to tell the truth and organize across this country. >> thank you very much. it's time -- at this point it is well past time if i'm honest to start closing statements. and we are going to start tonight with senator booker. the floor is yours. >> thank you, rachel. it's an honor to be here tonight. i have not yet qualified for the december stage and need your help to do that. if you believe in my voice and that i should be up here please go to corybooker.com. please help. i had a closing statement plerpd but i saw in the audience during the break a man named john lewis. perhaps it's important for me to mention why i'm so grateful to him. i've been calling in this whole election for our need to fight and fight the right way by bringing people together to create transformative change. not just beat donald trump. that's the floor.

we need to go to the ceiling. we need to go to the mountaintop. i am literally here on this stage right now because 50 years ago there was a lawyer on a couch who changed his life, changed his mind to get up and start representing families, one of them mine, who were discriminated against. the house i grew up in is because much that lawyer's activity. when i asked him why, why he did what he did, he told me that on march 7th, 1965 he was watching a movie called "judgment at nuremberg" on tv and they interrupted that movie to show a bridge in alabama called the edmund pettus bridge. and they saw john lewis and other marchers who were beaten viciously by alabama state troopers. we all owe a debt that we cannot repay. we all drink deeply from wells of freedom and liberty that we did not dig. this is the moment in america where we need a leader that can inspire us to get up and fight again, that we have truly a moral moment in america like it was back in 1965.

if you give me a chance to lead, i will cause what john lewis says is good trouble. i will challenge us. i will ask more from you than any other president has ever asked before because we -- >> thank you, senator. >> -- need to mobilize a new american movement. keep me on this stage. keep me on this race. it is time we fight and fight together. please go to corybooker.com. >> senator booker, thank you very much. mr. steyer, your closing statement. >> last time i was not this stage i started by saying everybody here is more patriotic and more competent than the criminal in the white house. and i stand by that statement. but i'm different from everybody else on this stage. i know that the government in washington, d.c. is broken. i know that it's been purchased by corporations. and i've spent a decade putting together coalitions of ordinary american citizens to beat those corporations. i'm the only one on this stage who's willing to talk about structural change in washington

itself. term limits. if we're going to make bold changes, we're going to need new and different people in charge. i'm the only person on this stage who spent decades building an international business. whoever of us is the democratic nominee is going to have to face mr. trump or the republican and talk about the economy, talk about growth, understand that we can make mr. trump what he is, a fraud and a failure, on the economy, which is his strong point. i'm the only person on this stage who will say that climate is my first priority, that it's our biggest challenge but it's our biggest opportunity to recreate this country. if you want to beat mr. trump, if you want to break the corporate stranglehold on this government, if you want to pass all of the progressive policies that everyone on this stage wants, i'm the person who can do it. >> thank you, mr. steyer. >> i have spent a decade -- >> thank you, mr. steyer. >> i'm asking you to trust me. >> thank you.

congresswoman gabbard, go ahead. >> my personal commitment to you, to all of my fellow americans, is to treat you with respect and compassion. something that we in hawaii calledcall al aaloha. every single person deserves to be treated with respect, regardless of race or religion or gender or even your politics. inclusion, unity, respect, aloha, these will be the operating principles for my administration. dr. martin luther king visited hawaii first back in 1959 where he expressed his appreciation for what we call aloha spirit. he said we look to you for inspirati

inspiration. working side by side let's defeat the divisiveness of donald trump. come together and usher in a 21st century of racial harmony. of racial justice. peace, inclusion, and true equality. working side by side. let's make dr. king's dream our reality. >> thank you, congresswoman. mr. yang, your turn. >> i'm here with my wife evelyn tonight. we have two young boys, christopher and damian. how many of you all are parents like us here in the room? so if you're a parent, you've had this thought. maybe you've been afraid to express it. and it is this. our kids are not all right. they're not all right because we're leaving them a future that is far darker than the lives we have led as their parents. we are going through the

greatest economic transformation in our country's history, the fourth industrial revolution, and it is pushing more and more of our people to the side. we talk as if donald trump is the cause of all of our problems. he is not. he is a symptom. and we need to cure the disease. now, my first move was not to run for president of the united states because i am not insane. my first move was to go to d.c., talk to our leaders and say technology is ripping us apart, immigrants are being scapegoated, our kids are being left behind, and the american dream that my parents came here to find is dying before our eyes. and the people in washington, d.c. had nothing for this. they don't want to touch it. they don't want to talk about an issue they don't think they have a solution for. i'm not running for president because i fantasized about being president. i'm running for president because like many of you here in this room tonight i'm a parent and a patriot and i have seen the future that we're leaving for our kids and it is not something i'm willing to accept. we need to create a new way

forward for our people. if you want to join us in rewriting the rules of the 21st century economy, go to yang2020.com and make it so we can look our kids in the eyes and say to them and believe it, your country loves you, your country values you, and you will be all right. >> thank you, mr. yang. senator klobuchar. >> the nation was riveted this week by the testimony in washington. one of the people we heard from yesterday was lieutenant colonel vindman. and what he said was he spoke to his immigrant father and he said in this country you can tell the truth and it's going to be fine. it reminded me of army counsel years and years ago in the macarthur hearing, someone from iowa actually, mr. welch, who said have you no sense of decency, sir. i want us to remember that this election is yeah, an economic

check on this president and i have bold ideas that we can do as a country to make college more affordable and bring down the costs of health care, yes. but this is also a patriotism check. a value check, a decency check, and when you look at the people that turned out in kentucky and turned out in virginia, people turned out that didn't vote in 2016, african-americans are turning out like we didn't see before, but we also, and they must be with us, and we must get our fired-up democratic base with us. but we also, let's get those independents and moderate republicans who cannot stomach this guy anymore. this is how we build a coalition. so we don't just beat donald trump, we bring the u.s. senate to some sense, we send mitch mcconnell packing. this is how we win. so if you want to join us and remember that this won't be for me a personal victory, it will be a national victory of someone that wins in red districts and suburban purple districts and

bright blue districts every single time. if you want to join us and if you believe that our work doesn't end on election day but begins on inauguration day, join us. amyklobuchar.com. >> senator klobuchar, thank you. senator harris. >> so we're in a fight. this is a fight for our rule of law, for our democracy, and for our system of justice. and it's a fight we need to win. and to fight this fight i believe we have to have the ability to not only have a nominee who can go toe to toe with donald trump -- and i have taken on jeff sessions. i've taken on bill barr. i have taken on brett kavanaugh. i know i have the ability to do that. we also need someone who can unify the party and the country and who has the experience of having done that. i've done that work. i believe we need someone who has the ability to speak to all

the people regardless of their race, their gender, their party affiliation, where they live geographically or the language their grandmother speaks. my entire career has been spent having one client and one client only, the people. i have never represented a corporation. i've never represented a special interest. and in this election justice and the various injustices people are facing regardless of where they live or their race or gender are very much on the ballot from economic justice to reproductive justice to health care justice to educational justice. and i truly believe that when we overcome these injustices we will then unlock the potential of the american people and the promise of america and that's the america i believe in. that's the america i see. and that is why i'm running for president. >> thank you, senator harris.

>> mayor buttigieg, go ahead. >> well, first of all, i want to remark that we're in the city of atlanta, a city where a great local leader, maynard jackson, helped create the black middle class that atlanta is known by. by ensuring that taxpayer dollars were spent in a way that reflected the need to expand opportunities to those who were excluded. and just as local leaders have shown great leadership, we need to use the powers of the presidency on challenges like this, expanding opportunity and expanding a sense of belonging to those who have been excluded in this country. i'm not only running to defeat donald trump. i am running to prepare for the day that begins when donald trump has left office, to launch the era that must come after trump. that era must be characterized not by exclusion but by belonging. and so must our campaign. i am inviting progressives, who have agreed on these issues we've been talking about tonight all along, moderates who are

ready to be part of this coalition, and a lot of future former republicans who i know are watching this, disgusted by what is happening in their own party and in this country. i want you to know that everybody is welcome in this movement that we're building and everybody is welcome in this future that we must create. i hope you go to peteforamerica.com, join this effort, and help us create a better era for the american people beginning in november 2020. >> thank you. senator sanders. >> thank you. let me say a word about myself. unusual as it may seem. i am the son of an immigrant. young man of 17 who came to this country without a nickel in his pocket. i have some sense of the immigrant experience. i will stand with the 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country. at the age of 21 as a member of

a civil rights group at the university of chicago i was arrested, spent the night in jail, and i have been committed to the fight against all forms of discrimination, racial discrimination, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and religious bigotry. i will lead an administration that will look like america. lend the divisiveness wrought by trump and bring us together. during this campaign i am proud to say that i have received more campaign contributions than any candidate at this point in an election in american history. over 4 million contributions. averaging $18 apiece. if you want to be part of a movement that is not only going to beat trump but transform america, that doesn't have a superpac, doesn't do

fund-raisers at wealthy people's homes, please join us at berniesanders.com. thank you. >> senator warren, the floor is yours. >> thank you. i've listened to this debate tonight and i hear a lot of really good ideas. but take a look at the issues we've talked about. we've talked about climate change. we've talked about defense spending. we've talked about private health insurance. we should have talked about gun violence. what do these issues have in common? well, first they touch people all over this country in their everyday lives. and what is the second thing they have in common? we know what we need to do. we have a lot of good ideas for how to fix it and the majority of americans are with us on it. and yet we don't make change. why not? because of corruption. because we have a government that works better for big drug companies than it does tore people trying to fill a prescription. it works better for a giant defense industry than it does for everyone who worries about

the money that goes into arms instead of into our public schools. we have a government that works for those at the top and not for anyone else. i have the biggest anti-corruption plan since watergate. it involves ending lobbying as we know it, blocking the revolving door between industry and washington, making everyone who runs for federal office put their tax returns online. we have to have the courage not to make just individual changes, not to fight for little pieces. we want to make real progress on climate. then we have to start by attacking the corruption that gives the oil industry and other fossil fuel industries a stranglehold over this country. i am so grateful to be here and i am grateful to an america that gave the daughter of a janitor a chance to become a public school teacher, a chance to become a college professor, a chance to become a united states senator -- >> thank you, senator.

>> -- and a chance to become candidate for president of the united states. thank you. >> vice president biden, your closing statement. >> i assume we're only talking about the corruption of the federal government, we weren't talking about barack obama and his spotless administration. we made so much progress. but one thing we haven't talked about today. we've talked befrg. we haven't talked about the one thing i think is most consequential. you know, the american people have an enormous opportunity. i've never been more optimistic about our prospects in my entire career, and i got elected as a 29-year-old kid to the united states senate. folks, we are in a position where we have -- we're the wealthiest nation in the world. our workers are more productive than workers around the world. three times as productive as workers in asia. we have more great research universities than all the rest of the world combined. we're in a position where we've led not by the example of our

power but by the power of our example. i'm so tired of everybody walking around like woe is me, what are we going to do. let's remember, this is the united states of america. there has never, ever, ever been a time when we set our mind to do something we've been unable to do it. never. never, never. so it's time to remember, get up, let's take back this country and lead the world again. it's within our power to do it. get up and take it back. >> vice president biden, thank you. and let me take this opportunity to thank all of the candidates for a spirited and excellent debate. i want to thank all of you and i want to tell you that on msnbc tonight my colleague brian williams is going to pick p our coverage in just a minute. i also before we go want to thank everybody here in the audience. i want to thank the city of atlanta. and from all of us here thank you so much for watching. good night.

our thanks as well and a job well done to our friends and colleagues in atlanta. good evening from new york. once again. from our nbc news headquarters here. another democratic debate is now history. this seemingly endless run-up to the 2020 presidential election continues on day 1,035 of this trump administration, which was a withering and relentless day of american politics. starting with what started out as a blowtorch of a witness in the house impeachment inquiry, ending just now as we all saw on the stage in atlanta. ten candidates appearing after for the true believers what was an 11-hour day for television viewers. the trump presidency was an early issue on that stage

tonight. >> we have a criminal living in the white house. >> ambassador sondland by his own words told us that everyone was in the loop. that means it is a criminal enterprise engaged in by the president, from what we heard today the vice president, the secretary of state, and the chief of staff. >> i learned something about these impeachment trials. i learned, number one, that donald trump doesn't want me to be the nominee. secondly, i found out that vladimir putin doesn't want me to be president. >> sadly, we have a president who is not only a pathological liar, he is likely the most corrupt president in the modern history of america. >> read the mueller report, all 442 pages of it, that showed how the president tried to obstruct justice and when congress failed to act at that moment the president felt free to break the law again and again. and that's what's happened with ukraine. >> i made it clear that this is

impeachable conduct and i called for an impeachment proceeding. i just believe our job as jurors is to look at each count and make the decision. >> the constitutional process of impeachment should be beyond politics, and it is not a part of the campaign. but the president's conduct is. >> we also heard from joe biden about how he might deal with a possible criminal investigation into president trump. >> would you support a potential criminal investigation into president trump after he leaves office even if you thought it might further inflame the country's divisions? >> look, i would not direct my justice department like this president does. i'd let them make their independent judgment. i would not dictate who should be prosecuted or who should be exonerated. that's not the role of the president of the united states. it's the attorney general of the united states, not the president's attorney, private attorney. let them make an independent judgment. if that was the judgment, that he violated the law and he

should be in fact criminally prosecuted, then so be it. but i would not direct it. >> we have a full complement of our extended family and friends here with us to cover what was again a monumental newsday in america. in the spin room in atlanta tonight grabbing the candidates as they come by, chris matthews, host of "hardball" on this network. and here with us in new york, claire mccaskill, former democratic u.s. senator from the great state of missouri, eugene robinson. pulitzer prize-winning columnist for the "washington post." steve schmidt, former republican strategist, most recently a former adviser to howard schultz. also notably a vefrnt of john mccain's campaign. and lawrence o'donnell, host of "the last word." at the big board all night long tonight, our national correspondent steve kornacki. claire, i'd like to begin with you. i think as a point of information everyone would agree it was a superbly well-moderated debate tonight. total control over candidates,

material, and audience in the room as far as i could tell. i'd be fine if they were named permanent debate moderators. there was a moment that caused cringes late in the evening. i want to say in the last 30 minutes. it involved booker, biden, and harris. we'll air it and then we'll talk about it. >> i have a lot of respect for the vice president. he is -- swore me into office. he's a hero. this week i hear him literally say that i don't think we should legalize marijuana. i thought you might have been high when you said it. >> i don't play that obama coalition. i come out of the black community in terms of my support. if you noticed, i had more people supporting me in the black community that announced for me because they know me, they know who i am. three former chairs of the black caucus. the only african-american woman that had ever been elected to the united states senate.

a whole range of people. now, i promise -- >> that's not true. another one is me. >> i said the first african-american woman -- the first. >> claire mccaskill. his correction there at the end was he meant the first. >> and he meant the first. but it was slightly awkward. joe biden is enjoying strong support in the african-american community right now, far eclipsing the support of kamala harris and cory booker. that has to be frustrating. and i understand the points they're trying to make. i'm not sure that it worked. although i have so much respect for both kamala and cory. they're both dear friends of mine. but i think that's what you're seeing, is that joe biden is so invincible in south carolina because his numbers are so much high y higher than -- in fact, so were elizabeth warren's and bernie

sanders, i believe, in terms of support in the black community. part of this is these candidates are trying to get more familiar to black voters. i think that was one of the efforts that was being made tonight by both cory booker and kamala harris. >> eugene. >> yeah. i think several candidates were making that effort tonight. i'll get to buttigieg in a minute. but that moment, look, that was one of the bidenisms. there were a couple of others in this debate. he's been spouting bidenisms for his entire career. i mean, he misspeaks all the time. and he has done so for a long time. but i actually think he had some really good moments in this debate. when he was talking and when the debate turned to foreign affairs and he talked about the khashoggi murder and saudi arabia and talked about how he would deal with china, how he saw that relationship, i thought

he sounded authoritative in a way that showed his experience and his stature as vice president and overall it was kind of a biden day, right? because we watched an impeachment hearing for hours and hours. all talking about biden. >> dozens of times. >> and then i thought he did pretty well. >> let me interrupt you there because rachel's with us. first of all, you may kill me because i just said that it would be perfectly fine if you four were named permanent standing debate moderators. and i'm sorry about that. >> i thought you were my friend. >> yeah, i'm sorry. but that is another way of saying again, job well done. and i would never ask you for a judgment but i would ask you because there is always news value in the hall, especially during breaks in the run-up that we in the television audience aren't able to see or feel or hear, what was your news judgment in the hall about things we weren't privy to?

>> you know, i was thinking about what i could tell you that you can get from here that you couldn't necessarily get through the screen. and i think one of the interesting dynamics, and i don't know where it comes from but i think the crowd, i think the audience here was like in class at the start. they were absorbing everything. you could have heard a pin drop for a very long time, for the whole initial part of the debate. now, certainly you heard people react. you'd hear small gasps or you'd hear murmurs. you'd hear people's reaction. but i think as the crowd sort of warmed up as the candidates started to goa at each other more and there ended up being almost a little best a call and response with some of the candidates by the end, i thought senator harris actually evoked quite a bit of that and a little bit from senator booker as well, even as you guys were describing what you could see through the screen in terms of the nature of those little kinetic moments. so again, i'm probably too close to it to know how it went overall but i felt sitting here like, you know, these dten

candidates are getting a chance to put their best foot forward and even when they're fighting it's respectful and they lift each other up. i'll have some time to think about it, but right now i'm just glad we survived. >> finally would've bedo let you go, control over audience response, outbursts, reaction, was remarkable. and when i've done these things in the past we tried to ask them to keep it to a minimum because it takes away from debate time. how did you do that tonight, you four? >> you know, part of it is i think the professionalism of the women i was moderating with. each of them is just nails. these are -- it's great to have four women moderators. that's almost like a novelty thing. people have been talking about that. i think people have been talking less than we ought to have talked about, about how ashley parker, kristen welker and andrea mitchell are people you would not want to meet in a dark alley if they went at you. i'm a little bit of a wuss but the three of them you just don't

push them around. and that's palpable like force fields around them. i think that really helped. i will also say, brian, and i know you appreciate these kind of things, that the technical staffing of this debate and the technical production of this debate was flawless. sometimes at big events like this, big boisterous events like this with lots of cross-currents, lots of different voices, some of the things that go -- sometimes what goes wrong is that people can't necessarily hear what's happening and the moderators aren't confident that you can hear us over the applause and the candidates aren't on the you can hear them over the crowd or each other. here technically it was a flawless setup, both in terms of the tyler perry studios and what they did for us and in terms of our own production team. and you could hear everything and know where every sound was coming from and i think that actually just made it easier for all of us to try to keep order. >> the technical stuff is one of the things our team is really good at. the moderating stuff is sadly for you one of the things you're really good at. rachel maddow, enjoy the rest of your evening. unless you have other plans.

thank you very much for joining us live from the venue tonight. into the spin room we go. chris matthews with senator klobuchar. chris. >> thank you very much, brian. i noticed something tonight that is growing within each debate. with each debate. it is a real san andreas fault in the democratic party today. you can falk about you all don't like trump. but bernie won't even agree with that. his first chance tonight and he basically said this isn't about getting rid of drup, this is about my big social democratic revolution i want to start, going into the same old litany of numbers. he doesn't accept your argument that you have to appeal to moderates, you have to get some moderate center of left democrats? centrists and some republicans. and then you and buttigieg and the vice president, former vice president, all argue you have to go for a larger audience than the hard left. he doesn't accept that. and elizabeth warren damn well doesn't accept it either. that's the fight, isn't it? >> it is. but i also think in the end

we're going to be able to unify because i zblsh which way? >> within our party. >> who's going to win, the moderates or the left? >> i will. i think we will be able to work this out because we did it in many past elections. what unities us, chris, is so much stronger than what us. what i don't like about this is when you look at just what happened in virginia, in kentucky and they continue to make the case for free everything, and saz i said today i know these things sound good on a bumper sticker and maybe they want to throw in a free car but i really don't think that is what people want. they want a fair shake. they want opportunity. that's why my bold ideas which involve a non-profit public option write will bring down the cost of health care in a big way and take on the pharmaceutical companies, their fight is not just with me. it is also with the new governor of kentucky. it is also with those new members in the house that put nancy pelosi in as speaker.

and that's what we have to remember here. >> what do you think when you hear a candidate say i'm going to get you preschool? we're going to pay for it all. across the country. i'm going to pay for the student loans. we're going to take care of all that. we're going to have health care if not immediately within three years for everybody. everybody's going to get free health care. >> here's what i didn't get a chance to say today. when it comes to education we should be matching our education system with the jobs in our economy. and to me that means no. you don't just make everything free and you don't pay for free college for rich kids. look at this. the fastest growing degrees are one and two years. we don't have a shortage of ceos or mbas. we have a shortage of plumbers. and that is the case i want to make out there because these are bold plans they're just different than theirs and they do not have a monopoly on good ideas. >> is the left thing honest? >> i think they're being honest about what they want to do. and i have all respect for them. i like elizabeth. i like bernie. i have respect for them. but i simply have a different way. and i think that in the end this

is where the people are in our country. we have to win big. we can't afford to win small and eke out a victory at 4:00 in the morning. >> i'm glad i got the fight right. amy klobuchar fighting for the center left. back to you, brian. >> thank you, chris. thank you, senator. steve schmidt in the snow globe of initial reaction, some personal, some social media. it is believed the senator had a good night. it's believed kamala harris had a good night. it's believed mayor buttigieg had a good night. your assessment of -- >> i thought that mayor pete had an exceptional night. he really demonstrated tonight in a performance that was pretty flawless yes has risen into the top tier of candidates. all of the candidates had good moments with the exception of one, and i think that the vice president had probably his strongest debate performance and when you look at the race and you look at the things presidential candidates have to

do whether it's one on one on the stump, whether it's giving speeches, that for joe biden his weakest v esest venue, his away the debate stage. he doesn't have to win the dedicates. he has to survive. and he did well enough tonight to not just survive but i think to advance his cause on a number of different fronts. and i think he got better as the debate went on. i think that tulsi gabbard was just awful. spectacularly bad. in fact, in a week between prince andrew, jim jordan and devin nunes she made a legitimate run for the medal podium. and just dishonest, at a pretty large level. but i think all the candidates have reason to feel good coming out of this tonight. >> to my good friend the senator from south boston lawrence o'donne o'donnell. >> well, all the senators actually did very well. and that means that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren have delivered what has now

become their standard very solid debate performance for their positions in the debate. amy klobuchar also very consistent debate performer. cory booker. cory booker i think tonight delivered his most debate yet and tonally the most consistent debate, most substantive debate for cory booker. if the debates move poll numbers then cory bookers numbers should move tonight. if this doesn't move the poll numbers for cory booker i don't know what can. and kamala harris also, who had her poll numbers really pop because of that debate where she went after joe biden, she also had her most solid debate since is that one. and then there's the biden debate which was scored as a kind of dplaulessly solid debate for him until this colossal gaffe where it's a gaffe unlike any other i've seen in a debate

performance because it's literally about a person who's standing on the stage who he in this moment has forgotten exists. and he's referring to when he's making his point that he has a very important presidential endorsement from what he said was the only black woman elected to the united states senate and he meant the first. that's carol moseley braun. and i may be the only person in the audience who knew whoa was stalking about. >> we knew. >> but that is -- he couldn't have reached for a less important endorsement. >> gaffe or wrong word? >> we know what's in his heart. we know he's a good guy. but the fact you that leave the black woman standing on the stage, standing in the shot saying what about me, that was within the dynamic of that gaffe. it's as bad a moment as he could

have had on that stage. and right up to that moment it's his most solid debate yet. and i hate to do this. we need to catch a break here. when we come back guess who's standing by to talk to chris matthews. one cory booker of the great state of new jersey. >> when i was mayor of the largest city in my state, this is where i agree with mayor pete. mayoral experience is very important. and i happen to be the other rhodes scholar mayor on this stage.

we all owe a debt that we cannot repay. 'all drink deeply from wells of freedom and liberty that we did not dig. this is the moment in america where we need a leader that can inspire us to get up and fight again, that we have truly a moral moment in america like it was back in 1965. if you give me a chance to lead i will cause what john lewis says is good trouble. keep me on this race. it is time we fight and fight together. >> the senator from new jersey as the great john lewis looked on from the audience tonight. cory booker standing by live with chris matthews. chris? >> thank you, brian. romance. i'm a romantic about -- i know you are by listening to you

about what can be done with the political life. looking at john lewis, what he did. his face bashed in, his head bashed in, and now all these years later he's an icon of our country. you believe in that stuff. >> oh, that's why i'm here. god, those were leaders that called to the moral imagination of this country and made us understand. black, white, whatever. we have common cause and we have to fight for justice. even if it's not directly affecting you that's what we need right now. >> but that's aspirational. people say you're aspirational like obama was. but aspiration, it's 2019. why won't aspiration and hope and we can do a better job and we can make it in this country, it's not nostalgia, it's optimism. why isn't that grabbing people? >> right now it's happening for jimmy carter is polling at 1%. talked about decency and he eventually won. bill clinton talked about hope. he's polling at 4%. he eventually won. barack obama this day in his race in 2007 he was 21 points behind hillary clinton but he talked aspirationally. this is my moment. i'm on the edge right now.

>> i don't know why we start in iowa but we've got -- it's a white state, midwestern. it's not a big state. there's very few african-americans there. you go to new hampshire same deal. you have to wait to south carolina or actually a little bit in nevada. is this -- does this work against the minority candidates? >> i'm not going to complain because i was home turf. my grandmother is born and raised in des moines, hundreds of family members there. >> hundreds. that's not enough. >> hold on. my net popularity in the state is third right now. and i lead in endorsements. >> your positives over your negatives. >> yes. and of all the candidates i'm number three. i lead in new hampshire of local elected leaders. >> buttigieg who gets no black support is leading everybody. >> well, look, in those early states, yeah. but he gets zero black support in the south. if we -- >> can you hang in there p. >> i need people desperately to go to corybooker.com or else i'm not going to make the next debate stage. >> you were great tonight.

i'm not the only one -- >> $200,000 coming to our -- we just need help sxwlp we just don't have time. cory booker. you inspired us tonight. back to you, brian. >> thank you, senator. thank you, chris. and over to steve kornacki at the board. steve, it's as if we planned it this way. look at where you have numbers from tonight. >> all this talk about black support in south carolina in particular. let's take a look at what the numbers say. this is the latest south carolina poll. came out just this week. this is the overall number. you see biden continuing to lead in the state. you see kamala harris 6%. by the way, you don't see cory booker even registering here. that's his support level in south carolina. but take a look at the breakdown white versus black. remember, almost 2/3 of the electorate in south carolina next year on the democratic side will be african-american. this is what it looks like among white voters but check out among black voters. joe biden, this has been the story all year. 44%. by far, more than 4-1 over any other candidate leading with african-americans.

second place is bernie sanders. distant second place. 10%. warren back at 8. then kamala harris at 6. by the way, whose name you don't see here, you were just talking to cory booker. cory booker not even registering with african-american voters in south carolina. i can tell you this is a national phenomenon as well. in our latest nbc news/"wall street journal" national poll among black voters nationally joe biden leads the way with 49%. bernie sanders is second with 16. elizabeth warren back with 15. cory booker you don't see his name here, he has six. and kamala harris has 5. that's what the black vote looks like nationally. this is the story in south carolina. i should say that moment tonight we can talk about how awkward it certainly looked for joe biden. remember we were talking in the first debate about the awkward moment joe biden had with kamala harris overt issue of bussing in the 197 0z. this lead with black voters has withstood, that all the stuff btd crime bill, all of the controversies about the joe biden race over the last six months he continues to lead. and just very quickly you mentioned cory booker at the end

there saying he needs to make the next debate stage. he has three weeks right know to get 4% in four polls. if he does not do that in the next three weeks he won't be on the next debate stage. >> fascinating stuff, steve. thank you. this is how eugene robinson columns are born. this is the stuff of pulitzers, people. another break for us. when we come back, our next democrat standing by with chris matthews is kamala harris of california.

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if you were commander in chief, would you make concessions to kim jong-un in order to keep those talks going. >> with all due deference to the fact that this is a presidential debate, donald trump got punked. >> the junior senator from california on the stage tonight. she is standing by with chris matthews. chris? >> well, i think what we know

the word punked means. you mean -- >> that he was taken advantage of. he was outskilled. he was not clear of purpose and instead he was so vulnerable to flattery that the fragility of his ego stood in the way of what's in the best interest of america's national security. that's what i mean. >> he gave away, as you put it, i recall, a photo op and got nothing. >> and got nothing. chris, listen, we've always known that north korea presents a very serious challenge to our national security. i am the only person on that debate stage who serves on the senate intelligence committee and the senate homeland security committee, by the way. i have during my course of time in the senate, have been in regular receipt of classified information about our nation's security. but it didn't take being there to know what i'm saying, that north korea presents a real

danger. instead of negotiating from a position of strength, this guy goes for the photo op with all of these flags that looked almost fake and -- >> sold out south korea. >> there's been no concessions. >> right. >> there's been nothing gained. and in fact, a lot lost. we have stopped our -- we have stopped our operations with south korea, for a year and a half now, we have not engaged in those operations -- >> right, the exercises. >> this primary fight, today, ambassador sondland, ambassador of the eu, the ringleader for the president with the three amigos. he lined up with the top government officials working with him on this deal. this wasn't some rogue operation. this was a government-wide effort -- >> it's what i called it, a criminal enterprise. it involved, according to

sondland, today, it involved, as he said, quote, everyone was in the loop. which is, by infer rens and also explicitly, what he said, the president, the vice president, the secretary of state and chief of staff. >> so, you think this guy should be removed from office? >> which guy? >> donald trump? >> i think that the process of impeachment is a robust and important process and it should proceed and we'll see where it goes. i think it's going to end up in impeachment. >> you have your vote figured out? >> i have eyes and ears and i can see what everybody can see in plain sight, which leads me to believe that there's a lot of evidence there that would be grounds for impeachment, but it will come over to the senate. >> good work tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. kamala harris, former prosecutor, u.s. senator from california and on the attack tonight. back to you, brian. >> thank you, senator, thank you, chris. eugene robinson. if you were a predicting man, which side wins out in the

democratic party, the side of the purity testing or the middle of the road center of the party that wants electability or is that a false choice? >> i think from the point of view of the democratic party, it had better be a false choice. i mean, there has to be, in the final analysis, some sort of synthesis that allows the party to unify around a nominee. and so, you've seen elizabeth warren, for example, explaining that, yes, there's going to be medicare for all and no private insurance, but first, there's going to be something else, first there's going to be some sort of initial step toward it. and i thought that was a clear signal that she is -- that she is mindful that not everybody is going to get onboard with immediately getting rid of the

health insurance of 160 million people. and so, i think you're going to see more of that. i think you're going to see more of the moderates leaning liberal and the liberals leaning moderate. that's the ideal scenario for the party. >> lawrence, can something be a false choice and a fair quell at the same time? >> it is kind of a false choice, in what gets neglected in -- especially in presidential debates, is the very existence of the congress. that -- >> right. exactly. >> the real questions in presidential debates should be, senator sanders, if senator warren's medicare for all bill passes instead of yours, when you're president, will you veto it? and the answer would be no, of course he wouldn't veto it, in reality, right? so, the truth is, when this is all over and there is a democratic president inaugurated, the congress is still in charge, nancy pelosi is still in charge and all presidents run advocating things they don't get.

democrat, republican, all of them, they all advocate things they don't get. and so, what they're advocating here is their hope. the reality of what they will actually do and be able to do as president is defined by congress and right now, just as an example, there are exactly 14 senate cosponsors of bernie sanders' approach to medicare for all. that's how many votes in the united states senate for it. nancy pelosi is opposed to it. everybody can guess what the reality would be of the sanders presidency. it would be something less than what he's asking for. and so, the real compression into the compromise position happens in the congress. >> i don't know much, but you're going to need more than 14 votes. gentlemen, thank you. when we come back, we'll bridge the top of the midnight eastern time hour, unless you're on the west coast, then let's be honest, you're just getting started. getting started. fall back!

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midnight hour here on the east coast, good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. we're continuing our coverage of tonight's msnbc/"washington post" democratic presidential debate from atlanta. it mark eed the second debate since democrats opened an impeachment inquiry against a president. >> in the first 100 days, i'm going to bring in 135 million people in medicare for all to no cost for them. and in the third year, when people have had a chance to feel it, taste it, we're going to vote and we're going to want medicare for all. >> senator sanders, let me bring you -- >> thank you, i wrote the damn bill. i think now is the time and in the first week of my administration, we will introduce medicare for all,

medicare for all, that means no deductibles, no copayments, no out of pocket expenses. >> the fact is that right now, the vast majority of democrats do not support medicare for all. it couldn't pass the united states senate right now with democrats, it couldn't pass the house. s in nancy pelosi is one of those people who didn't think it makes sense. >> that's about how that went. we have a full compliment of our extended family, friends and analysises to help us coverer what was a monument al day of news coverage. chris matthews is in the spin room, at his usual post. we'll be coming right back to chris. with us in new york, claire mccaskill, joy reed, host of "a.m. joy." steve schmidt, former republican strategist, former adviser of howard schultz and michael moore is back with us, moviemaker and

still at the big board tonight, steve kornacki. we'll be getting to everyone i just mentioned in just a moment. first, chris has another democrat. >> i've got tulsi gabbard. and steve schmidt took a shot at you. i want -- steve, would you repeat what you said about tulsi gabbard? >> i thought your performance was dishonest. i think your positions are extreme and one question i would have for you is, why did you go to syria to meet bashar al assad? what was the intent of your visit and why were you so dishonest in regards to the mayor, saying he called for plans to invade mexico, which, of course, he did not. >> tulsi? >> well, if you look at what the mayor said in response to the woman who asked him the question about mexico, i was merely cite what the mayor responded to.

look, the commander in chief and the qualifications necessary to serve in that role are incredibly important. the experience and understanding about foreign policy, about national security is something that i bring to the table and that i challenge pete buttigieg on, showing that he lacks that experience. i've served in congress for seven years. on the foreign affairs committee, on the armed services committee, on the homeland security committees. meeting with world leaders, working with military commands, getting high level national security briefings, focused on ensuring our nation's security, the safety and security and the freedom of the american people and working towards peace. that was why i was willing to meet with a brutal dictator in syria, in the interest of peace and national security and why, as president, i'll be willing to meet with any leader from any other country, if it means that we are able to ensure no more of my brothers and sisters in

uniform are needlessly, unnecessarily sent into harm's way, fighting in these regime-change wars that have been so costly and so destructive to my brothers and sisters in uniform and to every single american. this is why i'm calling for this sea change, a shift in our nation's foreign policy, away from the bush/clinton legacy of interventionism and more regime-change wars -- >> so, it's not bush/clinton. -- >> it's bush/clinton/trump. >> let me ask you, bashar al ass assad, is he a war criminal? >> there's international court systems that have been -- >> what do you think? you think it's an open question? >> he should be indicted as such. >> you believe it's an open question at this point? >> i think we have processes in place to deal with these kinds of things. my interest as a candidate for president and the kind of leadership i'll bring is putting the interest of our men and

women in uniform first. >> it was the first time -- thanks to the moderators, moved international policy and leadership of this country, in terms of commander in chiefdom. let me ask you about the fight in the democratic party. i'm looking at all the establishment figures, people i normally like, john kerry, joe biden, hillary clinton, you go down the list, they all is up supported the war in iraq. why were they hawks? the party is not hawkish, why are so many of the leaders hawks? >> i point to two things. one is, you have the foreign policy establishment and the military industrial complex in washington that carries such a huge amount of influence over both parties. >> is it campaign contributions? >> there are -- >> why are politicians so hawkish? >> there are campaign contributions, the influence these contractors have in this pay to play culture, this corrupt culture in washington, but you also just have people who don't understand foreign

policy and who lack the experience to make these critical decisions that impact our lives and the safety and security of the american people. this is what is so serious about what's at stake here. >> don't i heard three people, two, you and bernie sanders, who, i guess, both iraq wars. i join you on that. let's go back to brian. tulsi gabbard out there all alone fighting against the neo-cons. >> thank you. michael moore, welcome. >> thank you for having me back. >> good to see you again. >> start with what was going on there tonight, do you think? >> i think the most important thing to take away from this is that the democratic party has to be the party that is for peace, that's not for the interventionism that she was talking about, that the american public, especially the working class and the poor of this country who put up most of the soldiers and sailors and others, they need to have -- they need

to stop being abused by having their -- i know so many guys in michigan, in the national guard, i -- i mean, they did four, six, nine, more, tours there. they joined up the michigan national guard to be there for the people of michigan, if they needed help. there was so much abuse caused by this bush war and i think that -- that anybody who will stand up and speak out against it, and especially bernie, i mean, this is what we always -- this is what we've seen with bernie through the years. he is always the first to say it, whether it's about medicare for all or raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour or whatever and tonight, he said something that i don't think i've ever heard at a democratic debate, let alone, obviously not a republican, he said that the palestinians were human beings. he said that we cannot support israel and be against the palestinian people. it's -- we're being hypocritical

if we do that. we support iran, but that means israel, but that means we have to support the palestinians. that got the same kind of applause that beto o'rourke said when he said we're coming for your ar-15s. the only time that people rose out of their seats in houston at the last debate was when he said that. and it was a powerful thing. nobody said it, nobody could believe. democratic party pundits on all the shows here at msnbc trying to walk it back, but six days later, colt manufacturing in nearby connecticut, made the announcement, saying, we will no longer sell the ar-15 to the public. because they saw -- they saw when those people rose out of their seats, hey th, this is cog our way. we better do something. >> to distill the problem people have with that moment, i think, is on one side, people said, this congressman now out of the race, former congressman from texas, just gave the republicans

the opening paragraph of their opening salvo of the ad war of the year. the other folks said, job one should be beating donald trump. where do you come down on job one? >> well, yes, of course job one is beating -- actually, job one is convicting and removing donald trump sometime in the next couple of months. >> like guns and butter. >> so, it's like, if you really want to go to number one. after what we heard today? he shouldn't be there in that white house, in our white house, another single day. somebody said earlier on one of the shows here that -- that in the -- in the old days, there would be a delegation of republicans going up to the white house -- >> right. >> today, to say, you know what -- >> that's it. >> that's it. >> barry goldwater and john rhoads and hugh scott. >> exactly. >> that's what happens. and so that's -- so, that's job one. job one for the election next year is to make sure that we not only get rid of trump or trump's

replacement, but we get rid of that which gave us trump. that's really what the real issue should be. and if we keep -- if we keep supporting -- i was listening earlier, listening, i have so much respect for senator mccaskill here, and everyone cried when you were not returned last year -- >> my husband's a michigander, so, we think you're pretty cool, too. >> then that's even better. but i really -- i want to redefine in the way last time i was here, we talk about the working class and i said, the majority of the working class actually are women, people of color and young people are paid the least. so, when we say working class, it's always, we're always evoking this image of lunch bucket joe. the actual working class of 2019 is a 30-year-old black woman. that's really the working class. and when you say working class, i want everybody to always think, now, that's a 30-year-old black woman, because that is what the working class is.

just in the same way i think that we have to -- when you guys were talking about how we have to be more moderate or move to the center, that's how we're going to win next year, see, to me, i think moving to the center -- i am the center. i am the mainstream now of the democratic party. the majority of americans agree with me and bernie on all the issues, whether it's -- whether it's health care for all, climate change, minimum wage, mass incarceration, go down the whole list. the american people have moved left. so, the center is now more of these sorts of things. this is what we believe. so, when you say, like, for instance, with joe biden said tonight, 160 million americans want to keep their private insurance -- says who? are you actually talking to people about this? yes, they want the assurance that whatever we have with the new medicare for all is just a transfer from what we have with

their good union health care, it's going to be better for you, you're not going to have copays and deductibles -- fine. the average democrat and the average american does not like the health insurance company. they hate cigna and united health care. these are people that they're fighting with to get them to pay a bill that they won't pay. the health care industry has caused more pain and harm and anxiety for the american people than practically any other industry. and we should never side with candidates that are -- say we're going to keep this private profit-making thing going. that's not where the american people are at. they are fed up with this and i'll tell you, i got an earful of it back home in flint last month when general motors was on strike. >> yep. >> what did the ceo of gm do on the third day of the strike? she took away their health care. she shut it down. i come from a gm family. i mean, gm, your health care,

uaw employee, it's everything, medical, dental, eye care, you can get a free lawyer if you need one. it's the best. and on the third day, they saw the thing they thought they'd have forever could be taken away by their company like that. and that's what people need to know, that we can never allow our health insurance to be in the hands of a private profit-making company where they can end you tomorrow. anybody watching the show right now, your boss could wake up in the morning, go, you know what, steve, it just cost us too much money in here to have this -- to have this health insurance for the employees, we have to cut it back, we have to raise the deductible. they can do this just like that. that you should that should be illegal. it's a hughman right. >> let me get joy reed in this conversation, because we haven't been able to ask you, what party did you see on display on that stage tonight? >> well, you know, i thought it was a lively debate. a cup of things to run through

quickly. i think, because our friend here said a lot of stuff. i think with actual tulsi gabba challenge with miss gabbard, yes, somebody who was very much against the iraq war, got out of news, really, you know, initially, because of my opposition to the iraq war, i think a lot more people than we know feel that way, even people who have military backgrounds who say, why did we do this? why did we spent our country's human resources on this war? i think it was a lot of the reason that barack obama was a viable candidate for president, is that he could see ahead that this was not a wise idea and i think a lot of democrats preferred him over hillary clinton in 2008 because of that. i think that that's true. i think the challenge that tulsi gabbard is having is that you can feel that way about the iraq war, as i definitely did, but also find it odd that the way she talks about regime-change wars is exactly the same way that russia talks about them. >> right. >> she uses this language that

feels straight out of kind of the kremlin. >> sure. >> it is odd. >> yeah. >> and that she went to see bashar al assad and cannot take away from her interaction with him that he is a criminal who is not just hurting random people, he's hurting his own people. >> the fact she couldn't call him a war criminal is stunning. >> very sad. very sad. >> not seeing what he is a weird kremliny view that makes her an odd fit for a party of democrats. i'm not sure what it is she's doi doing. this is not -- this is not a neutral character on the world stage. he is a pn evil character. the fact she doesn't have an opinion on that is weird. it's a weird place for her to be in the democratic party. that's number one. number two, it absolutely true that the working class has been viewed for decades as this sort of, you know, white, mid western hard scrabble person when the

majority of working class people are people of color and young people who are going broke even though they're working, people like, you know, my kids that have -- my middle son graduated from college, working, he can't afford to move out of my house. like, you know, he wants to, but he can't, there's no way. our kids have to live with us, my husband and myself, because they can't afford it. so, i think we have to change the whole concept of what we're talking about when we talk about working class and broaden it out. i thought it was important that the debate was in a city like atlanta tonight, where you have a lot of african-americans, latinos, people who are that other working class. and i think what they heard tonight, number one, the best debate i've heard kamala harris have. >> i agree. >> by far, her best performance. i thought when she made the point and having worked on a couple of campaigns, look, the democratic party comes knocking at the church door six weeks out and they want plaque peopblack vote, but the rest of the year, there's sort of an invezability there. african-american women are the most dutiful voters. don't get a ton out of.

that i thought cory booker had a really, really good night. hopefully it will change the dynamic, because up until now, we haven't been centering these voters and hopefully -- >> rhodes scholar cory booker. >> i thought kamala also did a really good job tonight in articulating women in this country that are having children in their late 20s and 30s and are trying to manage taking care of their parents -- >> yes, absolutely. >> taking care of their children. the costs associated with all of that -- >> yeah. >> and that this is really -- these are the working folks we should be really focused on and she was very good at -- and there were a lot of women tonight that were watching her tonight and said, you know what? >> relate to her. >> she gets me. she understands the struggles i'm going through. >> i totally agree. >> to michael's point and joy's point, i think the lunch bucket of the american working class is

now much more often a backpack or a handbag. >> yeah. >> a break and then we go to mayor pete buttigieg with chris matthews. ith chris matthews ♪ ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. hi susan!) honey? yeah? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin honey. because it's never just a cough.

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help the working class while helicoptering between golf courses with my name on them. i don't even golf. as a matter of fact, i never thought i'd be on a forbes magazine list, but they did one of all the candidates by wealth and i'm literally the least wealthy person on this stage. >> again, while such things are unscientific, a man believed to have had a good outing tonight on that stage in atlanta is standing by with chris matthews. >> thank you, very much. i'm here with mayor pete buttigieg. i thought tonight it wasn't just the democrats fighting over health care, but talking about who is going to lead the world. the president of the leunited states is the leader of the world. and you said it helps to have somebody who has been in the world. >> i think so. my experience in foreign policy comes in part experiencing by ordered by that foreign policy into a foreign war. and we do need to be talking

about this a lot more. i think there was a time when democrats were in a defensive crouch about national security and foreign policy, as if all we could say is, hey, we care about national security, too. well, today, it has become abundantly clear that if our party isn't leading, nobody is, because this white house has no meaningful foreign policy. and as we've seen to the extent they have one, it is easily corrupted. we have to lay out what the security strategy for our country in the 21st century will be and my vision is one where the united states leads with our values and recognizes that it is always in our interest to see to it that our values are lifted up around the world. different consequences for how we engage a competitor like china, but also an ally like saudi arabia. both out allies and adversarying are behaving in ways that reflect the disappearance of the u.s. from its position of moral leadership under this president. >> let's talk about that, because when i was growing up, the fight was always over the defense budget and the democrats would commit for a lower budget. it was a way of saying, we have

different priorities than the republicans. i noticed elizabeth warren, she's got part of her medical plan, health care for all, medicare for all, includes a cut in military. in other words, shifts money. where are you on that kind of thing? shifting money from defense to domest domestic? >> i don't think it's as easy suggesting an across the board cut without looking at what we're doing. one of the things i'm concerned about with senator warren's p propos proposal, she zeros out the overseas contingency fund, that's a -- >> what does that do? >> well, it's known for its connection to the iraq and afghanistan engagement, which we seek to wind down, but that's not all there is to it. we should have a debate about how much we're spending and we definitely need to make sure there is not run away growth in defense spend, but also how we're spending it. that's part of what i tried to speak to tonight. we have to decide what our priorities are going to be, and

this president seems to have no imagination for what 21st century threats are going to be like. we're still spending according to a 20th century understanding of what security really means and what the military is going to look like ahead. >> you're 37. you are 37 -- >> i am. >> stunning to me, talking to you. i've said this before, your wealth of knowledge is extraordinary for your age. my question is, can you stand up to those who say, because you began to do it tonight from tulsi gabbard and others, you're just too damn young to claim world leadership. >> well, you know what's remarkable, is that there is, right now, a pattern in world leadership of a new generation taking the lead. you look at -- >> gooded a band. >> good and bad, it's true. justin trudeau, macron, a little better. >> took office at the exact same age that i would, which is 39. the prime minister of new zealand, she's been magnificent, was younger -- >> she's great. >> the new president of el salvador, who is considered to

be very promising. younger than i would be at the inauguration. and it's true. even leaders that we're very concerned about and dictators around the world are off coming from a younger generation. >> giving the thomas jefferson argument. how old was he when he wrote the declarati declaration? >> much younger than you. >> hamilton was 21 when he came on the scene. our country has a great tradition of new generations stepping forward in leadership. it's happening around the world. i think that's the sort of thing that america should lead. >> if you are in a black church in south carolina right now and you are having numbers problems down there, what would you say to the people who are against you, perhaps because of your orientation? >> i was a couple of weeks ago and i talked very openly about my orientation. we have to put away this idea that homophobia is somehow only applies to the black community. some folks out there are saying it, and the reality is, people approach elections and certainly black voters that i talk to approach elections with one main

question in mind and it's this -- how is my life going to be different if you're president versus one of these other people out there? and why do you care? if i can answer that, then i think a lot of other considerations fall to the sideline. >> every time i ask you a question, i get a sense you got the question two weeks ago. you're very good. thank you. >> thank you. >> answer me questiing my quest. brian, it's true. he seems encyclopedic about a question i just came up with. >> chris, thank you very that conversation. steve kornacki at the big board is going to speak to the larger issue, the issue that is both the result of so-called purity testing in the party, the result of the electability road testing and that is beating donald trump. steve? >> yeah, it's interesting, brian. you hear bruuttigieg trying to describe how he thinks he can win over voters who aren't currently support him. this was a poll just taken just this week in iowa, new

hampshire, nevada, south carolina, a pretty good cross section of the democratic party and they asked the democratic voters, the candidate -- a candidate you where not now voting for, what would it take to convince you to support that candidate? take a look at these numbers here. so, for joe biden, these are the choices they gave. is it a policy issue, some policy he could exchange and win you over on? 17% said yes. 16%, the idea of, can he convince you he can just handle the job. how about can he do well in the early states, only 11%. by far, the biggest choice here for biden was simple electability. if biden can prove he can beat trump, that's going to win over voters to his side. we saw this across the different conditions. elizabeth warren. only 8%, 7%. 48% said they would consider -- they would switch over to warren if she could convince them she could beat donald trump. these numbers keep getting, 40% for bernie sanders, you get to pete buttigieg, 57%. it looks like the biggest doubt,

one of the biggest doubts holding back buttigieg is, he's got to prove to them he can beat donald trump. you see that across the board, from 40% to 57%. you think of how democrats are watching these debates, are they focused on this issue or that? what they're focused on, what a lot of them is, filtering what they're hearing through the lens of, hey, would this work against trump? could this beat trump? would this get trump out of the white house? >> steve kornacki, thank you for that fascinating number. and as always, as we head to a break, our conversation on the other side, yes, let's listen to joe biden on this topic. >> i learned something about these impeachment trials. i learned, number one, that donald trump doesn't want me to be the nominee, that's pretty clear. he held up aid to make sure t t that, while at the same time, innocent people are being killed by russian soldiers. secondly, i found oit thut that vladimir putin doesn't want me to be president. 't want me to be president.

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senator sanders, you described your campaign, including your plans for medicare for all as a presidential revolution. president obama said it is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement. the average american doesn't think we need to tear down the system and remake it. is president obama wrong? >> no, we don't have to tear down the system. but we do have to do what the american people want. and the american people understand, today, that the current health care system is not only cruel, it is dysfunctional. >> we are back, our coverage continues. we want to keep this in the family here in this studio, don't tell anybody. steve schmidt, let's talk about that man, that is michael moore's man right there. age-wise, the antithesis of

mayor pete. is that man electable? >> i believe that donald trump would defeat bernie sanders in an election. i believe that donald trump would defeat elizabeth warren in a general election. and it think the risk is outrageously high. when i look at the proposal, and we were talking about this off-air, medicare for all, private health insurance and i do think the issue, and i agree with michael that this issue has moved considerably to the left. i don't think there is much debate in the country about the fact that nobody should go bankrupt because their wife gets cancer or their kid breaks a leg and working class people are victimized by the health care system. the answer to it, though, if it requires pulling insurance -- private insurance away from 160 million people, it is demonstrably unpopular as it

stands right now. and is advancing that issue at this time worth the risk of re-electing donald trump? and what i would argue is that from the perspective of the 2018 elections, what you saw, particularly with the overwhelming turnouts you're seeing in suburban areas of the country, the african-american community, that there is a coalition that can be assembled for the purposes of dealing with what i think is the first, the second and the third issues in this race, which are the corrupt criminal in the white house who is very quickly dismantling the u.s.-led liberal global order that was conceptualized by fdr, built by harry truman, sustained from eisenhower through barack obama. when we see the chinese and the south koreans entering into military security arrangements, we see the withdrawal of america

from the world and despite all of our flaws, the reality is is that we've lived for the last 75 years in a period of prosperity unequaled in the history of the world, where billions of people have been lifted up out of abject poverty. when we look at a world dominated by the chinese as america regresses 20 years from now, we should talk about the fact that there are millions of people in concentration camps in that country. minority muslim populations. it is not a pretty picture. and so, i think the stakes are enormously high. and i do think in these debates, what is the nature of this moment in time in america? and i think mayor pete on the stage tonight talked in a way that none of the other candidates did, which is, what do we do next? what comes after trump?

the country is profoundly and dangerously divided. who are the uniters, not the dividers on that stage? and i think these are questions that we'll get an answer to in the next couple weeks, as it plays out, and i think when you look at steve kornacki's board and the polling numbers, what it would suggest to me is a looming fight between mayor pete and elizabeth warren, expect some fist cuffs in the next debate to come, and a real engagement between cory booker, who has to try to collapse some of vice president biden's african-american support. look for cory booker to go after the vice president. and i think you see kamala harris right now, after her strongest debate performance, probably for the season in a position ahead of booker, where she can hang back, she can wait, but when you start to see these fault lines play out, i think in a more aggressive way in the democratic -- in the democratic race in the weeks ahead. >> senator, take any or all of that. >> let me just say this.

i thought, you know, they all did pretty well tonight, with a few exceptions. i still think we have too many people on the stage. we need to shrink the number of people debating. i'm not saying we need to narrow it to the top four, but ten's too many. and i'm not really sure anybody really moved the needle tonight. because they all did pretty well. i think mayor pete did have a great night. he showed he could pivot and punch, which, you're going to have to be able to do with donald trump. we're going to have -- in a debate, you're going to have to pivot and punch and he did that very quickly with tulsi gabbard when she went after him with something that was just a bogus attack. he immediately said, hey, you know, i'm not going to let you get away with that. and i thought cory was impassioned and optimistic. of all the candidates on the stage tonight, the ones that were the most optimistic and the ones having that oozing of the uniter thing like you're talking about, steve, were in fact cory booker and mayor pete.

>> could you happily live in an america with any of those ten as president? >> um -- i think not any of the ten, not -- maybe not any, but i think the very big difference, i think, we're seeing in the way that we're all discussing this race is the difference in the democratic party. i think for -- particularly for voters of color, there is no conversation of interest to talk about uniting, to be blunt, with the party that has given up not just its moral standing, but its soul to that -- to the person who is president of the united states right now. the danger of donald trump is much more extent to my community. it's much more extent to both my immigrant relatives, to african-americans, to latinos, it's not about whether or not we can regain our public standing on the world stage and be seen as america, as america was, to people who look like me, it's about imminent danger.

donald trump is dangerous to our families, he's dangerous to our lives. the, you know, my son, my -- our youngest son goes to syracuse university, where right now, you know, the manifesto of the texas shooter is being sent around to immigrant students, to black students, to asian-american students. people are afraid to be in school right now and just being black or brown feels dangerous. lgbt community feel their marriages are in danger. in danger now. and so the idea of uniting and coming together, that sounds fine for pete buttigieg to say, you know, to middle class white america that wants to come together with their uncle who is a trumper. that's not going to work in communities of color. and i think one of the fundamental challenges that pete buttigieg has is that he's not communicating to my community right now. he's not communicating to my community at all. on issues like policing. people want to know why he fired that police chief.

getting, you know, saying that he's got a great, you know, long-term plan for black america, that's lovely. he speaks very well. he's quite articulate, that is not helping people who are afraid and want to know, can this guy connect to me? can he connect to black people? can he speak to african-american fears of the police? he's having a hard time doing that. and if he can -- if he can't do that, he's not going to get the chance to change america on the world stage by being president of the united states because sorry, even if he wins iowa, voters in south carolina right now are sticking with biden. i don't see that changing, even if he were to win iowa because he's not proving something to south carolina voters the way that barack obama had to do. he's a white candidate who is quite popular with white voters, that says nothing to south carolina voters who want to know, what are you going to do about policing and things we care about and get those unlocked out of those cages? so, he's got to make the transition into the rest of the democratic party. sanders has a lot of the same issue. when he talks about class, it's

really resonant to a lot of younger, you know, progressive black people, but in general, he hasn't broadened his base. i think warren had a very good night. and, as usual, she was good, as she always is. she needs to broaden her base. i think she's smart to broaden her discussion of health care to say maybe there's a transition, maybe there's a way we can let y'all try medicare for all, try the public option and see how it works out for you before we force everyone onto it. maybe that's a smart thing to do, but i still think out of everyone on that stage tonight, i think that booker, at least, to me, booker and harris feel like they changed something about how people see them and i think that was important for the two of them to do. i don't think anybody had a terrible night except maybe tulsi gabbard. but i still walk away thinking who resonated, who felt like they resonated was kamala harris. >> michael moore, 60 seconds before i have to take a break. >> i want to say this about why i support bernie. i first supported him back in

1989, i stood on a stage in burlington, vermont, when he first ran for congress. he couldn't -- he was trying to get, like, semifamous people to come there and -- >> you're famous, you can see you're famous. >> in 1989, i had only made "roger and me." >> that will do. >> that will do. >> he couldn't get the guy play ing crocodile dundee. all he could get on that stage were two guys from vermont who made ice cream and one guy from michigan who ate ice cream. that's it. but i'm telling you, this guy -- there's a reason why every single poll, the majority of 18 to 35-year-olds, he's number one with them. every single poll, black women, 18 to 35, the essence poll, number one, bernie sanders. why do the youngest people want to vote for the oldest candidate? i think there's something to study there and i think what it is is, they see him willing to fight for the future that we're

leaving them and it doesn't look good to them, but they know if he's in there, he will fight to do whatever needs to be done. what he said tonight about climate change, putting the fossil fuel, these executives away, this is a criminal action at this point, with the health of this planet, and that he would do that, that -- they -- young people, this is their future and we, as the -- we were just talking about -- >> old guys. >> our medicare cards, when are we going to get one? but you know, because we want our socialized medicine here during the commercial break, but the truth is, is that -- we have to be -- i want to be on the side oaf whf what young people what they need. it is their future. i want to be with the candidate that they believe is going to fight for them. and when you say he's too old, you know what? nancy pelosi is older than bernie sanders. and i don't -- i don't know, i -- i kind of think -- i think she's -- she's the baddest bad

ass in washington, d.c. and she's older than bernie. and you want her right now doing what she's doing. she -- it's amazing. you never say, oh, nancy pelosi, oh, she's never going to pull this off, this impeachment, she's so old. no. no. our elders, cultures that respect their elders and turn to them in moments of crisis like this, this is exactly what we need to be doing with nancy pelosi and bernie sanders. >> as we go to a break, we'll listen to a little bernie sanders. our coverage continues on the other side. >> it is time to bring our troops home. but unlike trump, i will not do it through a tweet at 3:00 in the morning. t 3:00 in the morning. took advantage of millions of americans during the recession. so, my wife kat and i took action. we started a non-profit community bank with a simple theory - give people a fair deal and real economic power. invest in the community,

in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. the difference between words and actions matters. that's a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. steven could only imaginem 24hr to trenjoying a spicy taco.burn, now, his world explodes with flavor. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day all-night protection. can you imagine 24-hours without heartburn? new crest gum and sensitivity. ahh brain freeze! no, it's my teeth. your teeth hurt? just sensitivity. i should see my dentist. my teeth have been feeling really sensitive lately. well 80% of sensitivity starts at the gum line, so treat sensitivity at the source. new crest gum and sensitivity starts treating sensitivity immediately, at the gum line, for relief within days and wraps your teeth in sensitivity protection. ohh your teeth? no, it's brain freeze! new gum and sensitivity from crest.

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side effects include nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, belly pain, and decreased appetite, which lead to dehydration and may worsen kidney problems. i have it within me to lower my a1c. ask your doctor about trulicity. the american people understand that the political system we have today is corrupt. and it is not just voter suppression, which cost the democratic party a governorship here in this state, not just denying black people, people of color, the right to vote, but we also have a system through citizens united, which allows billionaires to buy elections. >> bernie sanders from tonight. chris matthews, in addition to his duties in the spin room, has been watching and thinking about all this. chris, what do you make about this conversation we've been having up here in new york?

>> well, i think there's a couple things that strike me, but when lieutenant colonel vindman was in the hearing and he talked about america is a country where right matters, and i -- and i thought, that kind of immigrant patriotism is something that really does not have much to do with left versus right. it's sort of a feeling about the country. you may want to make radical change to this country, like woody guthrie, this land is our land, kate smith with god bless america, but there has to be sort of a peace there about america and your affection for the country, you start with it and you work from that to fix it. and i think when i look at some of the issues about choice, same sex marriage and all, i think the democrats always miss the cultural piece. they are right on the economics, but they miss the cultural piece, the -- and how people

feel about things. i mean, i can be -- i've been pro choice since roe v. wade was a court decision, but i have a different view about abortion than other people do. i think pelosi does, too. i think pennsylvania is pro life in a way that's pretty real, and i think it was one of the reasons trump won up there. trump is a charlatan, but he plays on these cultural issues. make america great again. they're honest feelings but he exploits them and distorts them. i think affection and patriotic feeling about the country and feeling about life and choice and traditional values, if you will, democrats are very cold about those things and i think they really miss a chance to win by simply identifying with the feelings of the country better than they do. i caught it again tonight with bernie sanders saying the country's corrupt oushgs system's corrupt. be careful about that language, bernie. you know, be careful. that our system of politics is

corrupt -- that's too strong. i'm sorry. it has corrupt aspects, but to say our democracy is corrupt is a bad starting point with a lot of people's hearts about this country. that's what i think. >> thank you, chris. we have four minutes until off-air. all our family members here in new york, starting with you, senator. what do you make of that? >> well, i agree with him, and of course, i'm from a state where the cultural issues have cost my party dearly. and so i relate to the point he's making. on the other hand, i also relate to the fact that our health care system is very messed up and very painful for many american families and we've got to do something better about it. my overall take on today is, we watched hour upon hour of testimony today about a man who has taken this country to places that none of us dreamt would happen without more republicans standing up for their country and saying, not on our watch.

tonight, i watched a bunch of candidates who have much that they agree on, some things they disagree on, but much that they agree on,. i feel comfortable that our party will come together and whoever gets the nomination is going to show they are inspiring, they can organize, they can excite people, they can win voters in every part of our party and not just play to one part of our party, and i feel comfortable that we're going to end up with a very strong coalition coming together for november of next year. i feel optimistic tonight. >> joy reid? >> you know, i think all day, those of us who have been up day including you, poor brian, you've been up all day, we watched a moral crisis unfold in front of us this morning, in which we discovered that one of our great political parties has given itself over to a cult of personality. and a cult of personality that surrounded around only his interests, around donald trump's personal interests, and that the entire of the republican party is willing to sub sum itself to

that is shocking, it's sad. so, the responsibility on democrats is huge. they have to govern the rest of the country. the diverse part of the country. and i think we saw tonight that there are a lot of democrats who are capable and hopefully they'll pull it together and take the country in a direction that's -- >> we have a former republican right here. >> well, i think that you saw on a debate stage tonight a number of candidates with positions that i disagree with, but every one of those candidates is faithful to the american system of government. to the constitutional republic which has endured since 1787. and what you see today is the collapse of the republican party. it stands for two things now. corruption and donald trump. there's not a policy agenda. there's not an issue agenda. it's a cult of personality. and the contrast between the two parties highlighted in this debate, even with people that i

disagree with on issues is incredibly stark to me. >> michael moore? >> i think we have very fortunate with this group of people running. this is -- we will all vote for whoever has the d by their name -- >> will you be happy with president steyer? >> absolutely, yes. what has he done with his money? he's given his money away to candidates who -- who would end his way of life -- >> true. he only has one tie, apparently. >> i just want to say this. yesterday was the anniversary of theaddress. i heard somebody read it on the radio yesterday and what we saw today, the end of the republican party, what we see on the stage tonight, hope for the future, those last words, a government of the people, for the people and by the people, shall not perish from this earth. we have to make sure that comes true. >> thank you very much for that closing thought. before we go tonight, i want to show you two front pages.

vastly different, describing the same thing. "washington post" goes back to lean on that latin. there's that latin again. but look at the handling of the front page in the hands of "the new york times." we followed the president's orders. a much more dramatic treatment of what we saw today. programming note. special coverage of the trump impeachment hearings back on the air, 9:00 a.m. scant hours from now on this network. that will do it for us on this shift in this room tonight. thanks to, in no particular order lawrence o'donnell, eugene robinson, steve core knackty, chris matthews, our thanks to claire mccaskill, joy reid, steve schmidt, michael moore. thank you for making this coverage apart of your day and night. after a quick break, we'll bring you, again, the m s msnbc/"washington post" debate, the repairing from the debate tonight in atlanta. ebate tonight in atlanta keeping me from the things i love to do.

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we're in a battle for the soul of america. >> we're ready to build this majority. >> we need big ideas. >> we are in this together. >> it's time for us to remember who we are. >> this is a fight that is borne out of optimism. >> it's also about how we govern because we are one america. >> i'm talking about changing washington. >> to restore the principles of te