that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. my colleague picks it up now. >> and a good day to you from right here msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is day 61 of the impeachment inquiry. there have been several critical, rapid developments across the last 24 hours. from the white house to capitol hill so here's a snapshot of what has transpired here on msnbc. as we bring you the latest. >> evidence is in and now the house moves closer to drafting the equivalent of formal charges against the president of the united states. potentially looking at everything from abuse of power

and bribery to obstruction of justice. >> right now senate republicans who have been the president's firewall are laying out their game plan, too. they just met with the president, president trump's team at the white house. >> senate republicans and white house officials are deciding whether a shortened senate trial in january or delay is their best strategy. >> politics be damned, i want to be on the right side of heistry and say that this kind of behavior from a united states president is not only not acceptable, but it qualifies for impeachment and removal from office. >> we're still watching for the state department to release a heap of documents tonight before midnight. that are directly jermaine to the central allegations. >> we have breaking news, moments ago the state department released nearly 100 pages of records in response to american oversight's lawsuit. seeking a range of documents related to the trump administration's dealings with ukraine. >> a number of them apparently show multiple contacts along the

way between secretary of state pompeo and rudy giuliani. >> associate of giuliani says he's willing to testify about secret meetings between congressman devin nunes, and ukrainian prosecutor that former vice president joe biden pushed to have fired. >> we're going to get into all of it with a team of reporters and analysts following the latest this hour. we start with the breaking news from overnight. state department documents showing efforts to facilitate a smear campaign against former ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, joining mes in nbc legal analyst, danny cevallo. what's in the documents that's potentially damaging? >> the potential allegations against hunter biden and now i guess generally not believed or generally debunked, allegations that hunter biden and others were involved in corrupt acts. and this is the critical link

between what giuliani provided the state department, provided to pompeo that formed the basis of the investigations supposedly requested by trump. in the ukraine, which were more than just investigations into burisma allegedly, but focused specifically on biden. this provides another link to that theory. >> okay now hang on. so you're saying that these were debunked allegations in the state department documents? >> the allegations that rudy giuliani provided about obviously marie yovanovitch and hunter biden, are allegations that are generally not widely believed now. they're mostly believed to be essentially trumped-up for lack of a better word. and those were the same allegations now it seems that the state department may have used to go forward and investigate hunter biden, burisma or ask for those investigations. what i think is important about this is the republicans'

anticipated response is going to be, hey, giuliani had evidence there was actual corruption. he provided it to the state department. he provided it to pompeo. this is further evidence that investigations into burisma and investigations into hunter bide wrn warranted. that's the way this defense eventually goes. they have to retreat to of course there was a quid pro quo, of course we want investigations, but it turns out hunter biden is a bad actor and it's totally warranted to investigate him. that's the only defense they have. >> but danny, aren't these allegations that were investigated into ukraine and proven as you're saying, debunked? they were proven not to be true. >> well that's the view of democrats. but republicans will say -- how do you know they were debunked? as we sit here today, republicans are calling and republican supporters are calling for investigations, renewed investigations of joe biden and hunter biden's activities in ukraine. to the extent others may say they're debunked, i promise you

republicans will take this information and say no, this supports the entire quid pro quo. it was totally warranted because the president is charged with rooting out corruption that may threaten the united states. and if rudy giuliani went out and investigated and provided evidence to the state department -- there you go. now the investigations suddenly become warranted. so whether some have debunked them. others have very much bunked them, i guess. >> okay. we're going to move on from that, to giuliani's indicted associates, one of them being l lev parnas. notably, he's the ranking minority member, devin nunes, first is parnas a credible witness? is there any chance that congress brings him in to testify? >> you brought up one of my favorite conundrums as a criminal defense attorney. is a cooperating witness's

testimony or information he provides to prosecutors reliable? after all you start with the presumption that he's an alleged criminal. he's somebody who is charged, under indictment and cooperating witnesses will commonly say to a jury, will say anything and everything to save their skin. they are not to be believed. they're not credible. and then the government will get up and say -- no, they're believable because they are going to serve some time. they're going to be punished. and they have no motive to lie now, they're totally honest, trustworthy people even though we just got finished indicting them. this is a common, cooperating witness challenge for the government. is that, it's that these defendants are obviously telling the government what they are saying is the truth. but on the other hand, are they just saying it to save their own skin? >> a couple of points i want to make here. devin nunes as we're putting up right here, is threatening to sue the "daily beast" and cnn where these stories originated.

he's not pleased. but on the flip side, any chance he becomes something of a fact witness in this investigation? >> very much so. i mean to the extent that these cooperating witnesses are saying that he provides another fact link to this investigation, then of course it's very possible. to the extent he was meeting with ukraine officials. not every person in the american government who met with a ukraine official is a potential fact witness. but if devin nunes was meeting with officials and it's damaging information theoretically that these cooperating witnesses are providing, then possibly he has relevant information. but again cooperating witnesses are not always to be trusted. that's from a biased criminal defense attorney. >> conundrum and bunked, cannot wait until we have you later in the hour. our second big headline this hour, the house is heading towards the next phase of the impeachment inquiry.

as the public portion of the intelligence committee's investigation appears to have wrapped up. the house judiciary committee, responsible for drafting articles of impeachment, waiting for the probe to be handed to them. congresswoman karen bass given msnbc insight into the possible next steps as well as the timeline. >> i wouldn't be surprised if there weren't more people from the state department or from the administration. because i kind of feel like once that crack happened with the whistleblower, that there's going to be more people coming forward. at some point we have to say, enough is enough. so i'm awaiting that report. i imagine that we will see it as soon as we come back from break and then we will determine where we go from there. >> with me now, sonam shaft. let's get to the expectations once the judiciary committee begins the process toward drawing up articles of

impeachment. do we hear from more witnesses? is that the first thing that happens? >> things are still, things are still kind of up in the air as far as where the judiciary committee is going to go we've seen several signals, as we saw from those statements just now, they could try to call more witnesses, there are also lawmakers who have said there's such a mountain of evidence against the president already, that they might just look at adam schiff's report from the intelligence community summing up what the witnesses who have already testified said. and move forward with writing articles of impeachment. >> you say articles, plural. how many are we talking about here? is it one or is it more? >> we started, democrats started out with focusing on an umbrella charge of abuse of power. and so that was the that was the investigation initially started, as witnesses, as more and more witnesses started testifying, we saw democratic lawmakers leveling accusations of bribery. extortion, soliciting foreign

interference in an election. obstruction of justice, potential attempted witness intimidation, witness tampering, there's a slew of charges. >> a laundry list of charges. >> let's look at the president's defense. he's denying a lot of what the witnesses confirm. take a listen. >> this guy, sondland, he was really the european union ambassador, and all of a sudden he's working on this. >> i worked with mr. rudy giuliani on ukraine matters at the express direction of the president of the united states. >> the ambassador, the woman, she wouldn't even put up -- she's an obama administration person. >> i joined the foreign service during the reagan administration and subsequently served three other republican presidents. >> i will tell you this about joe biden, i never said it specifically on him. >> you heard the president of the united states ask the president of the ukraine to investigate the bidens, is that

correct? >> yes, sir, he made a request. >> i mean talk about a conundrum. we just highlighted it right there how long can a defense like this hold up in the face of so many people in direct contradiction to what the president is saying? >> it's interesting. in the same interview the president essentially admitted to doing the thing he is a accused of in the impeachment inquiry. there's a point in the fox and friends interview where he brought up the debunked conspiracy theory about ukrainian election interference, ukrainian meddling in the 2016 election and the alleged dnc server and there's no facts to support that. but crucially right after he said that, he said -- we know, we're interested in corruption, why would you give hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to a country like that? so that was him essentially linking that conspiracy theory, that personal political motivation to security assistance. which is the entire crux of the inquiry.

>> all right. sonam thank you so much. former vice president joe biden is lashing out at senator lindsey graham as republican senators step up their effort to make biden's son a focus of the impeachment probe. >> he knows me, he knows my son. he knows there's nothing to this. trump is now essentially holding power over him that even the ukrainians wouldn't yield to the ukrainians would not yield to quote investigate biden, nothing to investigate about biden or his son. lindsey is about to go down in a way that i think he's going to regret his whole life. >> so do you think, sonam that lindsey graham tries to drag the bidens into the impeachment investigation now? >> i wouldn't be surprised. it's important to note that

there's no evidence supporting the fact that joe or hunter biden did anything that was legally questionable or engaged in any misconduct during hunter biden's time of serving on the board of burisma. this is obviously an attempt to distract from the really incriminating testimony that we've heard about president trump's own behavior. but i wouldn't be surprised if lindsey graham in his capacity as the chair of the senate judiciary committee, tried to drag the bidens into this. >> the effect of that is giving life to conspiracy theories, the more it's talked about. particularly during a senate trial. >> i think that was a really part of fiona hill's testimony on thursday i believe. when she said that when republicans push these talking points when they push these conspiracy theories, they're not just harming american democracy, they're playing directly into russians' hands, it's been incredible to see the republican party's revolution. this party that has been

historically hawkish towards russia. their evolution into essentially parroting vladimir putin's talking points. >> thank you so much. now to what could have been a mass shooting at a los angeles county middle school. authorities say a 13-year-old boy who planned an attack is under arrest this morning. as nbc's miguel almaguer reports, the student reportedly was very well equipped. >> investigators say the bloodshed was planned for this middle school in los angeles county. a mass shooting plot foiled after a 13-year-old student with access to this weapon, allegedly threatened to open fire on classmates before deputies made a chilling discovery at his home. >> we recovered that firearm and some other things that are important part of our investigation. >> after officers obtained a search warrant, investigators say they recovered an ar-15 rifle, a high-capacity magazine. 100 rounds of ammunition, a list of intended victims and a drawing of the school layout. >> i never thought it would

happen here. that's terrifying. >> multiple students overheard the school threat on campus and teachers emailed the administration about concerns raised by students. >> with the 13-year-old boy taken into custody for making criminal threats -- >> multiple shots fired. >> the arrest comes a week after a 16-year-old high school student in nearby santa clarita shot five classmates, killing two. >> we need all units to respond. >> since that shooting, there have been 36 threats against schools in l.a. county alone. the latest incident, say deputies, could have been deadly. >> in this case, the fact that people stepped forward and said what they had heard led us to be able to prevent a tragedy today. >> the teenager in custody, and another high-powered rifle confiscated hours before a planned shooting at a middle school before the holidays. >> 13-year-old suspect. by the way miguel adds that a 19-year-old relative of that suspect has been arrested on weapons charges. we're going to talk 2020 next. someone who is not in this

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to the 2020 campaign. the democratic candidates fanning out to win over primary voters on the stump. most of the action today will focus on new hampshire, south carolina and iowa. joe biden still leading the pack in most polls. last night he reacted to a question about his health.

>> no one should be concerned about that? >> no one should be concerned about that. why am i so far ahead in the national polls? why am i so far ahead here and in nevada? tell me? why? if everybody says people are thinking, people are thinking, okay, the pundits may be thinking, but that's not what the people are. >> joining me now, kevin sirilli, joe biden, he's a little testy, what's your reaction to the way he responded? >> you look at the polls and he's consistently weathered every political storm that's been thrown at him these past six to nine months, even as the impeachment inquiry, he and his son have had, been mentioned for quite some time. they weathered this, continued to main than themselves at the top of the polls, i was speaking to a senator democrat from did he they week, the top surrogate to the biden campaign.

he said they're fully prepared for a marathon political season to extend this beyond iowa, new hampshire, south carolina and to take it into the midwest contest following super tuesday. states like nevada for example. he has enjoyed really, widespread support and his campaign, they're not bluffing here, they feel they are in much better shape. than the chattering class in washington, d.c. would have you believe. >> former new york city mayor michael bloomberg and deval patrick. but biden seemed to brush off concerns that he welcomed the challenge. inside the campaign. is that what they're saying privately, too? >> look, when i speak to folks on the booden campaign, they feel they have the resources, they feel they have the message.

they feel that they have the coalition to continue on as a marathon. this is an incredibly crowded field. from their vantage point, what's one or two more. beyond that, you look at the other top-tier candidates, senator elizabeth warren, senator bernie sanders. south bend mayor pete buttigieg. they have been focused on how to draw those contrasts, to continue to keep their coalition together in a state for example like south carolina, i was just in atlanta covering the fifth democratic presidential debate. >> a master class of journalism and to see the biden campaign with the atlanta mayor. to talk about again the messaging of how they're going to be able to rebuild the obama coalition, that's where we're at. in terms of the buttigieg campaign, he is really ascended in early caucus and primary states like iowa and new hampshire, alex.

the question for buttigieg is can he maintain that. can he win over younger voters, not necessarily biden voters, but younger voters, who candidly by every indication who been backing bernie sanders. >> let's look at the reaction to the impeachment process, here's that. >> sadly, we have a president who is not only a pathological liar, he's likely the most corrupt president in the history of modern america. >> i learned that donald trump doesn't want me to be the nominee, that's pretty clear. >> this is a president not only with regard to his conduct, with ukraine, but every step of the way, puts his own private interests, his own partisan interests, his own political interests, in front of our country's interests. >> we have to establish the principle, no one is above the law. we have a constitutional responsibility and we need to

meet it. how did ambassador sondland get there? this is not a man who had any qualifications, except one. he wrote a check for $1 million. and that tells us about what's happening in washington. >> we have a criminal living in the white house. ambassador sondland by his own words told us, that everyone was in the loop. that means it is a criminal enterprise, engaged in by the president, from what we heard today, the vice president, the secretary of state and the chief of staff. >> i want you to extrapolate everything that we've been seeing on capitol hill. how much you think impeachment is going to play into 2020. and who you think won the night of the candidates? >> look, in terms of impeachment, i think it's going to be difficult for the democrats running for president, they're all on the same page. no one is saying anything differently as it relates to the impeachment process. and that i think from what

you're trying to campaign in iowa, new hampshire, which are so crucially grassroots states in order to win, that could be difficult for some of these senators who are going to be back and forth on flights from reagan airport to des moines and manchester. i think if you're bernie, warren, booker, klobuchar, some of the other senators that could prove difficult. >> i don't think anything in the last debate changed the trajectory of the dynamics of the race. think buttigieg maintained in terms of showing that he could take some fire, take the heat. take the criticism from his colleaguings and still maintain. i think bernie sanders is in a much stronger position than people realize. >> michael bloomberg is not even in the race yet, he's being criticized for the massive ad buy, $31 million for one single add, or week of tv ads in over two dozen states, what do you make of that?

>> it's been widely reported that the former new york city mayor has been exploring a run for president and he's been exploring as well, add buys, he's made this massive political ad buy. you look at other billionaire candidates, in this case tom steyer who has poured millions of dollars into grassroots efforts to mobilize an impeachment effort. it would, it shows you again the dynamics of the 2020 race. when i look at the current candidates who have already announced running, look at south bend mayor pete buttigieg. he's been able to ascend from a small town into the national stage and how buttigieg is able to maintain that status, is really one of the biggest question marks as we head into the end of the calendar year. >> kevin cirillo, thank you very much.

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pope francis is in japan to promote his anti-nuclear arms

campaign while touring the atomic-bombed cities of nagasaki and hiroshima. he spoke out against human trafficking. a warning to be extra careful with romaine let us because of an outbreak of e. coli, the fda reports 40 people in more than a dozen states have gotten sick. health officials believe the source of the contamination may be farms in salinas, california. and former penn state football coach jerry sandusky is serving the same sentence this morning as he was given seven years ago. he was resentenced friday to 30 to 60 years in prison for sexually abusing children. the 75-year-old who was convicted in 2012 was reinnocence snnsed due to a claim that mandatory minimum sentences were improperly applied. let's go back to politics. the "washington post" reporting that the president opened up camp david as something of an adult playground to woo gop

lawmakers during impeachment. hans nichols. >> if i go to camp david i'll get you a windbreaker or baseball camp. camp david was in the running for the g7 summit, president obama did something there. camp david has an incredible amount of history. a certain amount of cache around washington. the "washington post" story shows that the white house recognizes they need to keep republicans close. i'll retop the story, they have people like mick mulvaney are inviting lawmakers out to camp david, sometimes their spouses to give them a full experience of what it's like. but also to make sure that everyone is on the same page in supporting the president. the white house has a certain amount of currency. it mints new political currency river opportunity you get. you see it from golfing visits with the president to a visit to camp david or the president issuing freedom medals, the medal of honor is another thing

the white house can do. the challenge for any white house is not to have inflation on any sort of new currency they're minting. so because if everyone is going to camp david it loses some of its cache, but clearly the white house knows that it's something that lawmakers like. they don't want to lose any opportunities. and in some ways president trump does more to reach out to lawmakers socially than president obama. and i'll give you one example of that. golf. you often see president trump golfing with allies, not necessarily with enemies, but with allies all the time. when president obama golfed, he was frequently with some of his junior aides, he didn't look at it as an opportunity to socialize. president bill clinton would take a lot of members golfing. members of congress golfing. donors as well. it's something to talk about, you feel close, you can also have some unscripted conversations to press the president on one of your pet

issues. i suspect similar things happened at camp david when you're there with the chief of staff. this is an interesting story. it shows you to what extent the white house, even though they don't always appear to be strategically aligned, shows that they're thinking how to make sure that everyone is on the same page. >> mar-a-lago, it's a beautiful place. more on the impeachment inquiry. 12 witnesses have publicly testified for nearly 35 hours. but are their words swaying voters? we have on-the-ground team coverage across the country to get the answer, let's kick it off with nbc road warrior a ali vitelli in florida. >> it's clear from conversations with voters over the last two days, they're paying attention. many say that they feel the hearings are everywhere because they're on tv. they can catch them on the radio

when they're in their car. they're tuned in and paying attention. whether or not the hearings are changing anyone's minds, though, that seems to be the thing i keep hearing. people who went in thinking there was something impeachable about what donald trump did, they still think that. and folks who think there's no there there, they still think that the polling bears out there's little shifts and that's when we're seeing bearing out on the ground in florida. but they're all watching and in some cases it's even a family affair. >> are folks in your immediate circle watching the hearings? >> he is. >> well my mom is watching, she has the tv on. >> and you watch, too? >> a little bit. >> a little bit. >> why do you think it's such a bill b.i.g. deal? why do you think all of these people are watching? >> they're not really watching. it's a big deal because it's what's on tv. you have to get up and change the remote. and what's a 24-hour news cycle. it dominates twitter and it's

dominating facebook and dominating cnn. and fox news. >> it's not dominating espn, it's not dominating the '80s network or anything like that. it's noise in the background. i think people who are politically active would want americans to be paying attention. but i don't think it's changing anybody's mind. >> from here in florida we're going to nbc news now dasha burns in iowa. >> thanks, ali, i'm in due buick county, iowa which went red in 2016 for the first time since eisenhower. we've been talking to voters here in downtown dubuque, iowa. democrats i talked to said while they support the inquiry, they're concerned it's distracting from other issues and republicans say they think

it could be good for the president. it might be having the opposite effect from what democrats on the hill want. take a listen to what we heard from some of the trump supporters we talked to. >> i'm becoming more and more of a supporter of donald trump. and i think a lot of people in this area are the same way. >> what do you think about the impeachment inquiry? >> honestly, it's a joke. it makes the republican party look better. and it's kind of exposing all the lies that the democrats are telling us. >> we'll be watching this county closely, now let's go to upstate new york. >> i'm here in watertown, new york, in the 21st congressional district which found itself on the national stage thanks to republican representative elise stefanik's performance during the impeachment hearings. for some folks, they applaud her performance. the way she engaged with adam schiff and engaged with the hearing itself. on the other side, many democrats find her performance troubling and say that she's

been grandstanding. let's take a listen. >> elise stefanik, do you think with her performance during the hearings, represent the values of the 21st congressional district? >> i do 100%. 100%, i feel that those of us in ny 21 who voted to put her there, this is what we expect out of her. >> back to you, alex. >> tremaine and ali and dasha, thanks so much. let's check in with my colleague, david gura for a preview of "up" joining us in 20 minutes. >> several witnesses this week warned lawmakers about the ongoing threat of russian disinformation in the election and in politics generally. gary kasperov, the former chess player, turned activist has an outspoken critic of president putin and his politic. then congressman adriano espiat,

an early proponent for impeachment. >> lots to stay tuned for. getting the boot from buckingham palace, the costly fallout for britain's prince andrew that coust him even more. storage solutions from $9.99. and area rugs up to 80% off. plus, tons of limited-time mystery flash deals. and free shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday. and we're just getting warmed up. our black friday blowout is happening now through december first. shop the event of the season, only at wayfair.com. itso chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting.

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longer be allowed to work out of buckingham palace, nbc's morgan cheskey has more. good day to you saturday time there. prince andrew's entire office was booted from the palace, what can you tell us? >> we're certainly hearing those reports and what a difference a week makes, if you're born into the royal family, then buckingham palace should feel like a second home. but for andrew, the son of the queen nicknamed the party prince, he's finding the royal footing is slipping fast. this morning a first look at prince andrew, trying to ride out the storm after his botched interview about disgraced financier jeffrey epstein which led to the duke of york's announcement that he's stepping back from royal duties, brins press reporting the prince forced to move his private office. a spokesperson saying he'll be taking his work outside of

buckingham palace, not even a week after the interview which has become a pr nightmare for the royal family. >> do i regret the fact that he's quite obviouslily conducted himself in manner unbecoming, yes. >> unbecoming, he was a sex offender. >> i'm being polite. in the sense that he was a sex offender. >> the fallout growing by the day. the english national ballet, the royal philharmonic orchestra and barclays bank leaving andrew's palace initiative for entrepreneurs, stating in light of the current situation we will regretfully no longer be participating in the program. for now, the royal family staying tight-lipped as the prince retreats, new calls for him to meet with investigators looking into jeffrey epstein. >> whether a person is a prince or a pauper, he or she should provide any information relevant to a criminal investigation. >> the prince says he's willing to cooperate. but for now, the royal family

face as scandal. different from any they've seen before. >> this is without precedent. the queen has been on the throne for 67 years. she has seen the odd diplomatic scandal. she's seen her own family scandal. she's dealt with the tragic and untimely death of diana, princess of wales, never has she had to receive and accept from her second son, a request to withdraw from royal duties. as for the request, to withdraw, royal insiders say the queen consulted prince charles before officially signing off on it. suggesting charles may pay a pivotal role in the fate of his little brother. >> tough times there, thank you so much, outside buckingham palace in london. new questions about whether or not benjamin netanyahu can hold on to power following his indictment on corruption charges. nbc's molly hunter joins us with the latest from jerusalem. we have netanyahu who kind of

has taken a page from president trump's playbook now. how is it working out for him and these indictments can they affect his ability to form a government. i know that's in disarray. >> everything seems to be in disarray, i realize there's chaos back in washington, but is total political chaos here as well. prime minister netanyahu came out swinging, not backing down. he called the investigation an attempted coup. he called it a witch hunt and if that sounds familiar, let's take a listen to one hifs closest political friends. >> it's a witch hunt. they tried for a coup. >> every week it's a different witch hunt. >> investigate the investigators. >> almost verbatim. he is taking a page out of the book. i spoke with one of israel's leading political analysts who said the only difference between the two politicians is that prime minister netanyahu has been doing it for a lot longer.

>> there's a new poll that says 56% of israelis want prime minister netanyahu to resign. he's not offering. his chief political rival benny gantz has called for him to resign. but all of this leaves who is governing israel into question. we're in a weird 21-day phase, where basically any member of the knesset can call a vote. pretty unlikely it's going to happen. which means israelis will go back to the polls next march for the third time in 12 months. whether or not prime minister netanyahu will be standing again, we don't know. but one more thing, his legal timeline may be slower than his political one, we may not see him in court defending himself against the three major indictments, which hold serious jail time until well into next year. >> molly hunter, thank you. the three most damaging testimonies for president trump, danny cevallos gives me his

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legal analyst we got a chance to see things that were difficult to deal with. one of the first one being ambassador sondland claiming he was taking directions directly from the president. >> as a presidential appointee, i followed the directions of the president. we worked with mr. giuliani because the president directed us to do so. president trump directed us to, quote, talk with rudy. mr. giuliani's requests were a quid pro quo for arranging a white house visit. >> i'm curious why you thinks this so damaging. he's changed his testimony back and forth. >> forget his credibility. the idea there was an order to go talk to rudy is bad enough. it is an order to essentially

engage in a back channel. the day before, kurt volker took it like, go talk to rudy, if you don't believe me. he did not see it as an order. sondland saying, no, i took it as direct order. that creates quite a divide between the two witnesses on the same side. >> ambassador sondland is involved in another point made by david holmes about that phone call that happened at that kiev restaurant. here is that moment. >> so you heard president trump ask ambassador sondland is he going to do the investigation? >> yes, sir. >> what was ambassador sondland's response? >> he said, oh, yeah, he's going

do it. he'll do anything you ask. >> i have a clear recollection these statements were made. i believe my colleagues also knew what was going on. >> no notes. is it corroboration that makes it strong testimony? is. >> the reason he is so credible is because all of these are hearsay. holmes actually heard trump and gord gordon sondland interpret those to him after the phone call. the fact that he doesn't take notes is another exception to hear hearsay. in the days prior, there was a lot of talk that this is all second hand. holmes actually heard or saw these events himself.

>> something that did not play well for the president, that being dr. fiona hill confirming people involved all knew what it really meant. >> was it apparent to you when president trump or rudy giuliani was pushing for an investigation that the reason why they wanted that investigation related to what trump said here, the bidens? >> it was very apparents that what rudy giuliani intended, yes. he said this publicly repeatedly. >> was it known to you that barisma meant the bidens. >> it is not credible to me that he was oblivious. >> who is implicated here? >> the only viable avenue of

retreat, we want an investigation of barisma but we didn't know about the whole biden investigation. her testimony explodes that theory. >> appreciate it. new turn, the reports about a friend of giuliani and deafen nunez that have the congressman threatening to sue. maria ramirez?

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eastern. it's time now for "up with david gura." >> this is up, i'm david gura. we begin with breaking news about the role congressman devan nunes played. a client is willing to tell investigators that nunes met with ukraine's prosecutor and they talked about investigating joe and hunter biden in 2018. >> late last night, a cache of documents were put together. a paper trail from rudy giuliani to mike pompeo back