meeting, the answer is yes. everyone was in the loop. it was no secret. again, everyone was in the loop. >> good morning. and welcome to a.m. joy. well, donald trump isn't the most complicated president in our nation's history. he doesn't seem to read. even the crimes he's accused of are pretty straightforward. an extent to bribe a foreign government using our tax money acts for which he will in all likelihood be impeached. but the saga of trump's corruption can seem complicated because well, there's so much of it and because there's such a large cast of characters involved. now, you would be forgiven if you're having some trouble keeping track of who's who and trump does have one job skill,

marketing and he uses it to keep thing simple for his base repeating over and over again even as democrats advance their efforts with military precision to impeach him that whole thing is nothing but a sham. >> you have the cameras rolling so here's my answer. i want nothing. i want nothing. i want no quid pro quo. tell zelensky to do the right thing. >> okay, but here's the problem for trump. the dizzying array of block buster hearings have already confirmed that trump did indeed want something from ukraine, family an announcement that ukraine would investigate joe biden and his son. in other words, a political hit on one of his 2020 opponents. that's a pretty simple crime. trump allegedly abused his power for private gain by pressuring ukraine to gin up pressure on a political rival and he got caught because among the huge cast of characters, were people who weren't willing to go along with it and came forward to call

it out. so this morning we want to take a moment to explain to you who these characters in this never ending drama are. so first, there are the central players in the ukraine shakedown scheme. of course there's donald trump who asked for that favor from ukraine literally the day after robert mueller testified to congress about his findings on russia's help trump campaign in 2016 scheme. there's also trump's attorney rudy giuliani who allegely orchestrated the ukraine scheme. giuliani's soviet born associates, who allegedly acted as the henchmen in ukraine. then there's the group that eu ambassador gordon sondeland called the tree amigos working on ukraine. special envoy to ukraine, curt volker who even introduced giuliani to the ukranian president's top advisors but who now says he didn't realize it was politically motivated.

there's emergency secretary rick perry who attended zelensky's inauguration at trump's behalf and of course sondland himself who on wednesday went out and snitched on everybody saying the campaign was not run through an informal channel but through the highest levels of government. >> we worked with mr. giuliani because the president directed us to do so. >> did anyone else express any concerns to you about this so-called irregular channel? >> i'm not sure how someone could characterize something as an irregular channel when you're talking to the president of the united states, the secretary of state, the national security advisor, the chief of staff of the white house, the secretary of energy, i don't know how that's irregular. >> which takes us to the second set of characters. those who allegedly knew about the misconduct. those who were in the loop per

sondland including secretary of state mike pompeo. then national security advisor john bolton, acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney as well as vice president mike pence. there's bill taylor. bill taylor who's the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine implicated this same group when he testified last week. >> i encountered an irregular informal channel of u.s. policy making with respeck to ukraine. unaccountable to congress. a channel that included then special envoy curt volker, u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sonde lan. white house chief of staff mick mulvaney and as i sun subsequently learned mr. giuliani. >> ambassador taylor is part of the third set of characters. the career diplomats who are speaking out against what they saw as an abuse of power. a group that includes laura

cooper of the department of defense whose testimony undercut the republican talking point that trump could not have used military aid as leverage because the ukranians didn't know about the hold at the time of trump's july 25th call with the ukranian president. >> on july 25th a member of my staff got a question from the ukraine embassy contact asking what was going on with ukraine security assistance. that e-mail said that the ukranian embassy and house foreign affairs committee are asking about security assistance. >> okay. next we have lieutenant colonel alexander vindman who was on that call between trump and ukraine president zelensky. >> i was concerned by the call. what i heard was inappropriate. i want to emphasize to the committee that when i record my concerns on july 10th relating to asondland and to the presidet

i did so out of a sense of duty. >> we have george kent who called out giuliani for attempting to hi jack u.s. foreign policy in ukraine. >> in mid august it became clear to me a that giuliani's efforts to gin up political invest gags were now affecting ukraine. >> okay. we also heard from jennifer williams. we're going to go back and phytofind the information here. sorry about that. >> i found the july 25th phone call unusual because in contrast to other presidential calls i had observed, it involved discussion of what appeared to be a domestic political matter. >> now the president real time is attacking you. what effect do you think that has on other witnesses' willingness to come forward and expose wrong doing? >> well, it's very intimidating.

>> some of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its security services did not conduct coampaign against oy and perhaps somehow, some reason ukraine did. this is a fictional narrative that's been propagated by the russian security services themselves. >> joining me now, sorry about all that. joining me is adam smith who serves as chairman of the house armed services committee. thank you very much for being here. we had a couple of technical difficulties but i think the overall point there is a dizzying number of people here we're trying to keep track of, but you had basically two buckets of people. you had the career people who saw that this scheme to try to hi jack ukraine foreign policy was wrong and called it out and then you lad the insiders that were a part of it even carrying it out or who knew about it. in your mind this week or over the past two weeks have democrats been able to lay that out in a way in your mind that's

been coherent enough for the american people to really understand as we go into impeachment? >> i mean, absolutely. the important part is the first minute of what you explained. it's not complicated. you can throw all the players in there but there's really no question and nobody who honestly disputes that the president wanted the ukraine to investigate hunter biden and joe biden. don't forget the hillary clinton piece too because he was going to prove that ukraine interfered and not russia but it's not true. the president wanted investigations of hillary clinton, joe biden and hunter biden in exchange for releasing the aid that congress had approved and he had signed and that is extorting a foreign power with u.s. taxpayer money for your own personal let cal gain. it is a complete abuse of power and now the only additionally shocking aspect of that is the degree to which the republican party is willing to be totally dishonest, just completely

dishonest in order to defend this president. i mean, if they wanted to come out and say it happened but it's not as bad as people think and here's why, they're coming out and making stuff up on a day in and day out basis. lindsey graham who i've worked with, who i get along with and i think is by and large has been a pretty decent -- is just making stuff up to try to defend this president. so it's infecting the entire system of government to try to cover up for this guy. >> the thing that has been one of the most shocking things is watching and even though we've seen devin nunes watching him who didn't have the guts to do it in front of fiona hill, he repeated that exact prop gan that line, the thing that donald trump wanted investigated this fake conspiracy theory that it was really ukraine that interfered with the election to help hillary clinton lose but i'm not sure i understand it but he repeated that over and over again. how shocking is that for you as

a member of congress to watch him do that? >> well, it's incredibly shocking and all of this comes back to one simple issue. russia interfered in our 2016 election. russia is interfering in democracy's all across the world in a thousand different ways. they are trying to plant the seed that democracies don't work. democracy is bad. autocracy is better. they have interfered in the brexit election, they've interfered in countless elections across europe and they interfered in ours and it is a foreign policy challenge to the united states and to the country, but the trump administration and everybody around him, if you want to see whether or not they're being honest ask one simple question, do you think russia interfered in the 2016 election? and the ones who are dishonest go well, there's a lot -- no, there is no question about it. anybody, i mean, i serve in the armed services, i've seen -- it's not even debatable and it's also really important and they are willing to ignore it to

cover up for what the -- for the president's dishonesty and for his abuse of power. that is very, very troubling. >> but it also feels like they're doing something else. in addition to covering for donald trump at all costs it seems there's nothing they won't say to defend him. in a sense they are continuing the plan that russia clearly has to dirty his next opponent. >> exactly. >> this attempt to dirty the bidens isn't being carried out by the kremlin. it's been carried out by the ranking member of the committee and the leader of the senate judiciary committee. we now have sitting members of the united states congress who are attempting to dirty vice president biden and his son. >> it is far from clear that vice president biden is going to be donald trump's next opponent. >> potential. >> he's one of many so this aren't really about joe biden. i think that's a bit of a mistake here. what it is about is about covering up for what the russians did in the first place and covering up the extent to

which a whole lot of people in president's orbit. people who weren't on their chart there, they're from the other scandal. the rojer stone and frankly i forget a lot of -- >> manafort, the whole crew. >> all the people who were in direct contact with the russians interfering with our election. it's a part of trying to sweep that under the rug. working on the national defense trying to get it passed. one of the big things we want is election protection basically to put into law that if russia interferes in the election we will sanction them, the republicans are fighting us. not letting us put something into law to protect our elections from russian interference. that's how far and how damaging they are willing to be, but in terms of the -- it's beyond horrific for the country. >> at this point i do want to try to add in smub from the body where this log jam is occurring

so we have senator jeff murkley. i want to add you to this conversation because i think the congressman makes a very good point is that it is not as if russia did it once and having gotten away with it would not like to do it again, right, because donald trump is paying great dividends. he's seems to want to get sanctions released. he's hurt our relationship with nato, it's a grab bag for the kremlin but now you have the united states senate standing in the way of passing the kind of protheques to stop him from doing it again. you're in the senate with mitch mcconnell, is there any explanation you've gotten as to why he would stop the kinds of protections that would help the united states not have this happen again in 2020? >> there's no good explanations. democrats and republicans together feel strongly about taking on this corruption and this -- this russian strategy. this russian strategy involves both our elections directly, but also a strategy of dividing

america against itself, so they're trying to put salt on the wound of any of our national divisions and using social media to do so. and setting the stage to assist trump in the next election. you're absolutely right and we need a watchdog for america, president trump should be that watchdog as our president but instead he's been a lap dog for russia and it's -- that's a who rirveg position to be in. >> you know, we heard eric swalwell call out congressman nunes for a report this week having worked with one of the, you know, formerly soviet born sort of henchmen that rudy giuliani was using to orchestrate this scheme to get russia off the hook in the first place of him trying to gin up this conspiracy theory to help russia out. on the senate side, we do have the senate majority leader, his

state just got a pretty big investment from the company owned by somebody who yawsed to be quite very significantly sanctioned by the united states. there was a very significant investment in the state of kentucky after the senate voted to relax sanctions on some of those companies. do you believe that there's some connection between the money that's flowing into states like kentucky, flowing into the nra and other sort of pro republican haunts and his unwillingness to act? >> i would be very uncomfortable making that conclusion. i'm not in a position to have the details to have a firm sense of it. and i think in some ways i want to be careful not to distract from the -- the central situation here in which we had such powerful testimony this past week in which at the highest levels of our government, the president and his -- his key members, his secretary of state, his chief of staff, his personal lawyer have conspired to solicit the

interference of another country in the 2020 elections. you crane's interference. this is by the way, solicitation of foreign help and election is a crime. if the value of that interference is over $25,000, which of course it would be in this case, that's a felony crime. and so for those who on the republican side say this is no big deal, oh, it was just an effort to take on corruption, that is completely phony. this is abiliout 2020 and i disadegr disagree with congressman smith. i think he did see biden as the most serious challenger and sought to undermine him. >> do you believe there's been an outside ethics violation sort of, you know, attempt to get him -- to get devin nunes investigated for particularly having worked with les, do you

believe this should be an investigation for ethics regarding him? >> i understand a piece of this is about joe biden but the bigger thing is about what president trump and the russians and all these people have been doing is systematically as the senator just pointed out and you pointed out, this is a systematic problem that is a threat to the country because of what russia is doing to democracy. this is not just the president committing a crime for himself. he is undermining u.s. national security with russia and ukraine in quite broadly by trying to continue down this road. >> do you have a sense that this impeachment inquiry will proceed to an actual impeachment volt by the end of the year? >> i think it's probably the worst kept secret in the world that yes, that is absolutely where we are headed. i don't know what the senate will do but the house is prepared to act very soon. >> and the last question to you, do you believe there will be a

single vote among republican sflath tors if it gets to that point to remove donald trump? >> i -- if i was looking at a crystal ball i think that the majority leader will try to have a motion to dismiss which means there wouldn't be a direct vote on the charges. i think that would be a travesty for justice in america if that happens. >> thank you both. really appreciate your time this morning. and coming up, we will show you what lindsey graham was saying about joe biden that may surprise you. that's next. e biden that may surprise you that's next. i thought i was managing my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. but i realized something was missing... me. the thought of my symptoms returning was keeping me from being there for the people and things i love most. so, i talked to my doctor and learned

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if you can't admire joe biden as a person there's probably -- you got a problem. you need to do some self-evaluation because what's not to like? he's the nicest person i think i've ever met in politics. he's a good a man god ever created. >> that was lindsey graham back in 2015 choking up while talking about his long time friend joe biden. graham is now singing a very different tune launching an inquiry into biden and the ukranian gas company his son hunter was on the board of. in other words preparing to smear his old friend to make the man -- the term bossman donald trump. here's what the former vice president had to say to his former friend on friday. >> i am disappointed and quite frankly i'm angered by the fact he knows me.

he knows my son. he knows there's nothing to this. trump is now essentially holding power over him that even ukranians wouldn't yield to. lindsey is about to go down in a way that i think he's going to regret his whole life. >> what do you say to him? >> i say lindsey, i -- i just -- i'm just embarrassed by what you're doing for you. i mean, my lord. >> well, perhaps that whole work with republicans when the election fever breaks thing might be harder there mr. biden thought. joining me is david jolly and that tacnatasha bertrand. how serious is this graham investigation of the bidens? how serious does it look? >> we with don't know at this point. i mean all he's ak hully done is request documents related to hunter biden and joe biden's relationship with the

prosecutor, their dealings with the prosecutor and with the former president of ukraine. so it remains to be seen but what we do know from the reporting is the idea that joe biden was engaged himself in some kind of quid pro quo, the unsubstantiated allegation the going to appear when the impeachment moves to the senate. that is how the republicans are planning to defend the president essentially by -- by bringing in witnesses that can talk about this alleged, you know, extortion by the vice president that they have accused him of and by that -- by doing that kind of deflect attention away from what they're impeaching the president over. so right now i think what lindsey graham might be doing is lay the ground work for that so they have documents and witnesses that can back up this kind of, you know, unsubstantiated theory about the vice president. >> let's play lindsay graham.

here he is speaking about joe biden. this is on november 6th. >> should the impeachment trial come to the senate do you want to see joe and hunter biden come in? >> that's another line of inquiry. i've tried to resist turning the senate into a circus i don't want to go after joe and hunter biden because people are mad they're not getting a fair deal in the house. >> now he seems to have changed his mind and decided that he will be obedient to donald trump and go after his former friend. your thoughts? >> you can't believe anything lindsay graham says. i mean, that's the takeaway of these last three years and joy, i've kind of moved on in my evaluation of lindsay graham we sometimes think oh, the principle person that lindsay graham used to be but i now believe we can't believe lindsey graham five years ago or ten years ago where we used to think he was this constructively unpredictable politician he's actually the unprincipled

republican we've come to expect. we just did a better job of hiding it and i would also say this about lindsey graham for the faith that many of us put in him for somebody that was so opposed to donald trump, the reality is lindsay graham is donald trump. it just goes down with lindsay graham a little bit more like southern tweet tea than the stiff bourbon it feels like coming from donald trump but with lindsay graham we have somebody unprincipled in his convictions really to throw friends under the bus. you can't believe him. he'll shift positions if it serves lindsey graham's interest so what he will do even the nar tifr of the bidens even he doesn't bring them to testify is he will inject this conspiracy on the nation at a time when we're facing a very hard constitutional question in the constitution constitutional crisis and rather than hon mooring the oath he'll honoring his own self-interest in south carolina.

he is the worst type of politician we've come to ex-ppe in the modern republican party. >> you already have on the house devin nunes who has furthered this conspiracy theory that it was ukraine that attacked the elections not russia. it's straight out of the gru. he didn't have the gut to do it in front of fiona hill but he seems to be wanting to further this conspiracy theory. jaul jewel has be giuliani has been trying to further the conspiracy theory and now it turns out one of his cohorts was working with nunes to push it forward so it feels like the republicans have taken it aupon themselves to push these conspiracy theories to help donald trump. what does it then mean if the senate joins in and tries to push -- they're pushing the ukraine did it conspiracy theory but it looks now like the senate

going to try to smear -- he's going to do what even the ukranian government wouldn't do. the clu >> stink over the idea that the y ukranians meddled in the 2016 election and now he's trying to dig up dirt on joe biden with the former prosecutor, so i think you know, clearly with regard to nunes projection is a very powerful thing and when it goes to the senate, they'll have to grapple with the fact that it's been reported that they have been briefed by u.s. intelligence official os on the fact that this has been a russian disinformation campaign. a russian designed to shift blame away from russian interference with the election to ukraine, with the theory that one democratic operative trying to get dirt on paul manafort is now the equivalent of the

hacking and dumping of the social media operation in to 16. that has been pushed by the russians in order to create chaos and distract from their own role in 2016 so if they try to take this track during the senate trial then that will be something that's fully on display by the democrats as well that they can push back on and say look you know what you're doing, with regard to the bidens, that i think is going to be serving the president. they think that they can distract from the idea that trump wanted to investigate his political rivals, have ukraine investigate his political rivals by saying that he wanted to look into corruption more broadly. that of course is just not credible but they're going to try. >> and you know, this will all be happening in theory, david, while the former vice president is running for president. so that in theory you have a trial in the senate in which he is then brought up and maybe even dragged in by senator graham to testify, meanwhile lev

parnas says he's willing to testify. the idea is you could see giuliani have to testify. this could become a circus during the primary. >> yeah, and listen, the democratic party, democratic voters have a decision to make whether they stick with their guy, joe biden or not and it's a shame. it's a shame what republicans are doing. the hunter biden business situation was swampy we know that but it wasn't illegal. frankly if it was illegal half the united states senators would have family members in jail ft it was swampy. they're troying to conflate that today with what president trump has done when is to try to ask for election interference. the republican party is willing to protect him from that behavior but in doing so, they are -- they are refused to heed the warning of fiona hill and bob mueller and eli. cummings who said we are in

danger of a nation. republicans are putting our nation at risk by refusing to heed the warng by fiona hill that we're in trouble. the russians are going to do it again and republicans don't care. >> they got a lot out of it so maybe that's why they don't care. thank you very much f we appreciate. and coming up we'll tell you who the russians are rooting for in the democratic primary. that's next. in the democratic primary. that's next. new crest gum and sensitivity. ahh brain freeze! no, it's my teeth. your teeth hurt? just sensitivity. i should see my dentist. my teeth have been feeling really sensitive lately. well 80% of sensitivity starts at the gum line, so treat sensitivity at the source. new crest gum and sensitivity starts treating sensitivity immediately, at the gum line, for relief within days

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everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. i think that's unfortunate that we have someone on the stage who is attempting to be the democratic nominee for president of the united states who during the obama administration spent four years full time on fox news criticizing president obama. >> spent full time criticizing people on this stage as affiliated with the democratic party when donald trump was elected not even sworn in, buddied up to steve bannon to get a meeting with donald trump in the trump tower, fails to call a war criminal by what he is as a war criminal. >> well, kamala harris clearly came to this week's debate fully prepared to gather ms. gabbard

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only from maybelline new york. >> the russian's government goal is to deminish the global role and to neutral lyse perceived russian interests. right now russia's security services have meet up for their interference in the 2020

election. we're running out of time to stop sthem. >> new data from the foreign policy ins institute shows that russia has already chosen its favorite and least favorite democratic candidates. after analyzing more than 700 stories, researchers found that gabbard received the most favorable mentions among the 2020 field. joining me now is clint, former fbi and research fellow. so she is getting the most positive focus. >> out of all the mentions that we've looked at, she doesn't receive an overwhelming amount but what she does is far more positive than what we've seen of the other candidates. >> and what are the mentions like? talking about her in what way? >> mostly in terms of her rhetoric that she says about the u.s. government. it's war stance, that it's aggressive or imperialist, that's the nature of it. that the u.s. should stay out of places like syria which matches what russia wants.

and then really we should withdraw from war which is a message that russia wants americans say to americans. >> she uses the term regime change wars a lot. >> if you listen to that rhetoric you would think that the u.s. started a war in syria which did not happen. that was part of the arab spring. if you remember, we rewind all this that war has been going on that that was part of the libyan, egyptian, syria, there were many uprisings that happened during that time. the u.s. didn't start those. >> let's talk about the person that gets the most negative mentions and that is joe biden. >> so there's two things to look at with that chart that you put up there. the first thing is the total number of mentions so biden is five or six times more than like a gabbard or most of the rest of the field and those are much more negative. so i always tell people when they look at that chart, most of what it does is very much like u.s. news. about 70% is going to be neutral

so i look to see, when do they move off that neutral and chaung? and that's what sticks out with biden. overwhelmingly negative. lots of conduct about biden and they talk about him more. the russians don't waste time in their overt news talking about candidates they don't care about so it's really fascinating to me is elizabeth warren. they hardly mentioned her for months and only in the recent past couple of months have they started to talk about her and it's been negative than i would have expected it to be. >> if she with to defeat donald trump that would defeat their interests. >> that's where there's been some weirdness because they speak of her as sm sometimes she's part of a hillary clinton and you go well, if you're in the united states it doesn't quite make sense and you'll see that pop up sometimes even in the social media feeds. >> just to put you back in your fbi hat again f you think about 2016 and you think about now, from my outside looking in you

know, perspective it appears that the gabgabbard, joe biden dichotomy sounds very similar to the either bernie sanders or jill stein versus hillary clinton. it feels like the russians are running the same game only now biden is hillary and gabbard is jill stein/sanders. >> so it's slightly dimptd in 2020 only because president trump is the incumbent. so for them it's clear the base and so from putin's perspective he would love to see trump in there and to get that outcome, you go against the billest challengers to trump and you try to pop up people who are splitting the opposition on the democratic side so this would be populous candidates on the left. one of our next posts will be about president trump and how they talk about him and so the theory that is repeated in the press which isn't always true is that yeah, they are pro candidate trump but they're not

always pro president trump. so it's interesting to watch. in the sam day they'll say well, president trump is kind of the greatest candidate ever but we done like what he's doing in syria or ukraine. it's not as straightforward as some people might think. >> i want to talk a little bit about kamala harris as well. because one of the key ways that russia attacked the last election was trying to induce progressive younger african american voters to not vote, to stand down on donald trump. there seems to be a really concerted effort to paint harris as a villain to african americans. is that still happening? >> yeah, so what's interesting from russia's perspective, i think they're more concerned with harris as a member of the senate intelligence committee. that's where her name will pop up even in the past if you go into their media but more interesting is really how they will always continue to play on race, ethnicity, religion as a driver, as a wedge. and so what you look at with the

sort of populous bent, they eel try to help drive those wedges. the difference there 2020 both spl politically and socially, they don't have to create divisions. they're not creating any of these wedges at this point. what i can say having watched this two different time social security what could russia do to america that america isn't doing to itself and they mostly repurpose the consent and send it back to us. >> thank you very much for keeping track of all this. more a.m. joy after the break. . more a.m. joy after the break. .♪ ♪when you pine for the sunshine of a friendly gaze.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ the united states postal service goes the extra mile to bring your holidays home.

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coming up our a.m. joy panel of experts gives you their perspective on the latest 2020 democratic debate. more amaril.m. joy after the br. .m. which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed disease progression versus letrozole, and shrank tumors in over half of patients.

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. when the sons of black women will die because of gun violence more than any other cause of death, when black women make 61 cents on the dollar as compared to all women who tragically make 80 cents on the dollar, the question has to be where you been and what are you going to do? and do you understand what the people are -- >> we all owe a debt that we can't pay. this is the moment in america where we need a leader that can inspire us to get up and fight again. >> kamala harris and cory booker arguably had one of their best nights at the democratic debate. both got solid marks. on a scale of one to ten, they each got more than six points.

why not only mention-- cnn only mentioned core i ay booker and s barely registered at all. the "washington post" only praised two candidate by name, mayor pete buttigieg and amy klobuchar. and harris had a powerful callout for the democratic party for often taking black women voters for granted. senator cory booker slgs didn't merit his own header. he was tossed into a subsection for going after joe biden's stance. and in the entire article, senator elizabeth warren was only mentioned once. so as the candidates try to get their message out, this kind of post debate analysis is also sending a message about who

matters in this race as far as the mainstream media is concerned. joining me is now, tiffany cross, jonathan capehart, latasha brown, and glinda carr. thank you all for being here. here is the funny thing about the way that this all works. y'all on this panel demographically are much more representative of the democratic base as it really is, right? much more representative that you would know by listening to the analysis that really tends to center white working class voters almost clufsexclusively o did well. and let's start on that. it feels like that is where the center comes from that the analysis is about who can win over white working class voters

who are mainly republicans. >> we see this pretty much every single election cycle, this rush to the middle. as soon as we take these somewhat progressive instances early on maybe in the summertime and then there is a rush to appeal to a demographic that nt would vote democrat. and they are hearing the foot steps amidst the dim and noise of the impeachment proceedings, they are hearing the foot steps of donald trump, they are seeing the poll that says 67% of democrats are feeling uneasy about the election cycle. and they are also seeing the "new york times" poll that says that donald trump is testing very, very well against flothref the four potential candidates in battleground states and they are getting nervous. so they are rushing to the middle to get that white working class voter and ignoring us.

>> and i think there is a sense that lot of people -- people are human, right? and so what is more representable to them. their relatives voted for donald trump our peopr people that the or people that they talk to in ohio or indiana. that is where they feel like the center of gravity is so they just reflect that center. is that unfair? what did you think? >> that is not unfair and assign exhausted with to be honest with you. this is animalysis coming from e chatter class. or the children of the chatter class. people have a very myopic outlook. so you have to consider who are the people telling this story. and they don't reflect this panel and voters are looking more like this panel than the people that they are going over. klobuchar is constantly talking

about winning red states. news flash, talk to me how you can appeal to voters like me and it doesn't happen. mayor pete is not appealing well to black voters. and they dismiss kamala harris' campaign. i've said why do you think that is. and i think that we have to stay strong, platforms like this one, and let the chatter class know that we got it, you all have missed the mark too many times and it should be a sign to the media that they need to be more inclusive in their coverage. because as long as it is very privileged white my optic views talking to other white voters, they will keep missing the mark. so by evolution or force, we have to make that happen. >> and this is kamala harris, one of her strongest moments in the debate. let's take a listen.

>> for too long candidates have taken for granted constituencies is that have been the backbone of the democratic party. and have overlooked those constituencies. and have -- they show up when it is close to election time, show up at a black church and want the vote but haven't been there before. at some point folks get tired of saying thank me for showing up and they say show up for me. >> and jonathan, you would a great piece about kamala harris, this is how she really kind of is and seeming to break out of the box in her campaign. and what go ydo you make of the she's been curovered?

>> it is unfortunate. i think part of the problem is the pots. the media chases whoever is leading in the polls. let's not forget there was a time when senator harris was leading in the polls. she was the new bright shiny object. her launch in oakland with 10,000 or so -- more than 10,000, i think it was 20,000 people there in oakland was covered, it was bali hughewastht launch but then she started sliding in the polls and so people discounts your candidacy. and i think follow on beings in my profession are guilty of ignoring thison beings in my profession are guilty of ignoring this person. but she is within sis someone t can't discounts.

and i applaud her for taking the question that was meant to get her to judge all over mayor pete and use to turn the mirror on the party about where you been and what are you going to do for african-american voters. and that mirror was not just the democratic party, it was also to the media. the media plays in to that narrative. going to the black churches just before primary day or the weekend before the general election do the big soul to the polls and hang wringing about will they come out and will the person lose the election because the black vote doesn't come out. and the press also has a responsibility as the democratic party does to look at the african-american community not just around election time but every time, every day.

as tiffany has been say, we are becoming the majority in this country. the country is looking more and are more like us. so when will our stories, our views, the complexity and new answer oi n n nuances of our views be reflected. >> and i know you were quite critical. democratic party and that the democrats should take the l on this, that they have tended to chase after the voters and it is aati fixation. it is a thing. what do you think? >> i think that the democratic primary process doesn't center the very voters that will decide the election. right?

so we are focused on states that don't look like the electorate as diverse as it is. and that the early states are setting the pace. and also setting the pace as it relates to the polls and allowing polls and the debate schedule and now these monthly debates to shape who is electable. and i think in election cycle, black women will deband a return. and that is in the form of policies that we care about and frankly that we are supporting and investing in candidates that look like us, that should be perceived as electable because they are in the way that we will not only come to the polls and vote for the next president, but also vote black women up and down the ballot across this country. >> and latasha, you work in the grass roots on this. and black women are counted on to be the primary voter.

they are the most reliable democratic voters. but they arare dismissed becaus there is a narrative that america won't elect anyone that is not a white male. and there is not a lot of trust in the black electorate, that america would even think about electing a cory booker or kamala harris. so is it also saying the community saying we don't trust the voters anymore. >> i think it is two things. i want to go back to something that jonathan said. jonathan talked about when kamala harris was doing really well when she jumped out. but if you look at what the parps we papers were saying, i saw few headlines that said that she was with a forerunner. in famost were saying the b boy. biden, buttigieg and so they did

not cover it nor did they frame it as if she was a viable candidate. and so i think that we have that backdrop where the media is also feeding this particular narrative and i do think that historically we have had this idea that this particular election we just need to white male candidate to save us. and i think ultimately we're asking the wrong question. you know, the question is being driven by this idea of who can beat trump. that is one piece. but i don't think that that is the question. the question is who will inspire and motivate voters. 45% of the population in this country are not actively voting. what barack obama was able to do, he was able to build this broad based coy a lialition ande the base. and so we're looking for candidates that reflect our interests and that is ultimately i think the question that will drive black voters. >> the other person i think that

has gotten ignored is cory booker. and he said that he talked about being a road scholar as well. hut huffington "post" found that buttigi buttigieg's role -- they are both educated. and they don't all get -- they are all really smart. like i mean, you know, they are all smart people. but they are not all spoken about the same way. >> this is literally how media operates and it is incredibly frustrating. i'm at the point where we got to call a thing a thing. and when newsrooms look at that, how do they see this and not see anything wrong? they can see a panel of all white people and don't see the gaping holes. they don't see that you are losing voter voters, and you a

further driving wedges in this country. and i also want to say, i mean, if i could be the president of the latasha brown fan club, i would. when i say that she is doing the work and i had a chance to speak with her when she was at harvard. and she makes the point about asking voters to be inspired, but she also speaks to inspiring voters in a different way and telling black voters who have so been kept out of this process that you matter. you can be the architect of what this democracy looks like. and i just -- the work that she does, it is not always a fell campaign. she is getting people elected at the local and state level. so even on social media when people say we're lose, she'll say where are you getting that from, who are the candidates that worked at the lower level. so get to know her because she is saving democracy. >> and i agree. and there is also this idea of what states are winnable because

you have candidates running against lindsey graham, running against mitch mcconnell, we have a black man running against lindsey graham. but people write-off the southern states as unwinnable. >> absolutely. and you know, i just want to thank my sister tiffany who i always am interested in what she has to say. and umltimately when we are looking at what is possible, nobody thought alabama was possible. i remember when the alabama election happened, i had a reporter call me the day before the election to get a quote from me about why there was going to be low back turnout. of course i told him to call me the next day and i never heard from him again. but also when you are looking at these recent win, if you are looking at kentucky or virginia, if you are looking at what happened in louisiana, louisiana is a deep red state. that was able to retain a black

governor primarily because of the higher black turnout. so we have to look at the possibilities of what does it mean that we have to do the work on the grounds and really be able to speak and connect to those voters that really will make the difference. we have to save democracy. even within politic, congress has not sghon straighted tdemone that says that they believe in democracy. so we have to shift the paradigm of doing the work, it will take us and our turnout. >> and it will take voter registration. i harp on this constantly. but isn't that what is missing in this whole equation, people wanting to spend money on voter registration? >> i mean, we need to invest in black women, in voters in general from the beginning of their point into democracy.

and also don't knock on our doors 15 days before you need us to come out. this election cycle more than ever particularly for black women, we want candidate to talk to us, come into our homes and have a cup of tea and share exactly what they are doing. we need to be informed. currently some of us are with candidates, some of us are dating candidates and some are still shopping. and the polls aren't showing exactly where black women are going to fall because in addition to a black woman going to the poll, she also organizations her net worker. so black woman voter is about organizing her entire community. and i think that it is a continued engagement of black women, making sure our voices

are heard. anding fr infrankly holding the candidates to the truth that they are speaking to. >> absolutely voter registration, voter turnout is crucial, but to kind of center the conversation back to the initial question, we also need a candidate that we can get behind that creates excitement. right now the move to the middle is not exciting. >> and there is also a sort among the media that we need a candidate that will unite democrats with trump voters. is that even sellable? will that excitement the voters? >> it shouldn't be. at some point if people are going to vote progressive, it has to stand for something and not just the party. it has to stand for a set of values that says that we are going to take care of the most vulnerable. so the more that we marry that democrat with the trump republicans that are disaffected, that means that we are the ones compromising and

not them. >> and julian castro and i'm still annoyed he was not on the debate stage because i think that he brings so much to table. but why are iowa and new hampshire going first? wonderful states, but the reality -- there was one black person there at one point. my dad went to college there. it is a wonderful state. but it is not representative. if new york was the first primary state, it is a big state that would prove that you can actually compete money-wise. if south carolina was the first state, florida, there are so many states that would be much more representative. the idea that we lock it into these very two rept unrepresent states feels unfair. >> and also old. old in the sense that way back when, iowa and in that help did kind of represent the country. but the country has changed since iowa and new hampshire were locked into the first and second slots. i think a conversation needs to

be had nationally in both parties about should the primary calendar be changed. let's not forget the reason why nevada is third and south carolina is fourth is because within the democratic party african-americans and latinos and other people of color said hey, iowa and new hampshire, she are white, they don't represent us, can we get states in the early mix. so african-american voices really get heard in south carolina because 60% of the democratic erectcollectioelecto carolina is black. so we have to have a bigger conversation about moving states that are more representative of the entire country having them go first. i do think that say california is coming up super early compared to where it has been before. used to be june. and now it will be february or

march. super tuesday is three days after south carolina and california is in that mix. so, yeah, a bigger discussion needs to be had and states that look more like the country need to go earlier rather than later. >> absolutely. this is the best group. i'm going to have y'all come back again. we'll talk more 2020 soon. coming up, why elizabeth warren is making billionaires cry. that is next. cry at is next

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you will spend over $300 million of your own money in support of your political goals. how do you respond to critics who sue he as the embodiment of the special interests? >> what i've deny ovone over th decade is to put together coalitions of ordinary american citizens to take on unchecked corporate power. we have a broken government in washington, d.c. it has been purchased by corporations. over the last decade, with the help of the american people, we have taken on and beaten the oil companies, we have taken and beaten the tobacco company, we have taken on and beaten utilities. >> billionaires like tom steyer are increasingly on the defensive. the hottest selling item on senator warren's campaign website is a mug that says

billionaire tears. so question is how hard will the 0.1% go to shape the election? and joining me to discuss is a political analyst for m isn't nbc and author of winners take out. and also the new cover story on the fall of america's ruling class. there it is. okay. thank you for being here. here is the magazine for those of you who didn't notice that. >> bunch of deflated bloons. >> elizabeth warren was rising in the polls a and then there was a panic attack. bloomberg had to run and some say the governor of mass what is who has a lot of high end donors, hey, i got to run. is this all about elizabeth warren? >> we are living through the great freakout of 2019. this is not just the people running for president. i think, first of all, you had people like leon cooperman, this

hedge fund billionaire going on cnbc and crying saying elizabeth warren is picking on the wrong guy which was evidence that she was picking on the perfect guy. mark zuckerberg making the statement that there there was a wealth tax that the diversity of medical research would go away because all these rich people are funding medical research. and then you have, yes, mike bloomberg attempting to maybe run for president as a form of tax evasion. i mean, he is so concerned that warren as well as sanders are in that two of the top four that i guess i got to run for president to avoid 2%, 3%, 6% tax to my wealth. you are starting to see the talking points of vilifying rich people. if proposing to tax 3% of the assets of people with a bill i don't know dolla-- billion dollr more is vilification, they need to get out more. >> and you are being probably

crueller than elizabeth warren. it is only 2%. here is warren talking about it. >> i have proposed a 2 crept wecrept -- cent well mt tax. everybody who has over $50 billion. the first is free and clear. >> wealth tax, it has been tried by the nations. it is hard to evaluate. we can get the same amount of revenue through just taxation. >> and you were talking about this. >> 2% on $50 million or more. i think she said billion by accident. and 3% on anything above a billion. but i think she revised it upward because of the medicare for all plan. >> and there was a chart that came out this week that showed that now bill gates is again the richest man on earth and that his 100 billion or so makes a million dollars look like a flat pancake.

meaning they are like a -- there is so much money out there. and the big kroorpcorporations pay any taxes. >> part of what is happening here, tom steyer and michael bloomberg trying to be the good billionaires, sure, the sackler family may be bad ones. mark zuckerberg with his haircut may be not a great billionaire. but we're better billionaires. and the question i'm trying to raise for americans is why would we trust a billionaire to solve the problems that the billionaire class has spent 40 years kind of landing on america? why trust the people who have reorganized america as a casino that always pays them? why trust them with the fix? and even someone like bill gates who does really plann philanthr

work, i think it is immoral to have as much money as he has. >> and i've talked to people about this who really don't like elizabeth warren. there are a lot of them. and who is say that what you just said goes against the american creed which is that in america unlike most countries you can rise from ashes to become a billion nash. t bill i don't kn cory booker almost imply that had what we need to be doing is finding ways to allow more people of color to be billionaires rather than saying that there is something wrong with the idea of being a billionaire. >> this is not a new approach. we tried that. there are some black billionaires and female billionaires and it hasn't changed the inequality numbers or the percentage of income that is captured by the 1%. it is wonderful to have. >> athletes who make a lot of money and some musicians who

make a lot of money and hedge fund people who make a lot of money that we might feel are better than the ones that we don't like as much. but it does not change the fundamentals. when we had this situation several months ago where robert smith gave this generous donation to the graduating class at morehouse. wow, that is fantastic. unfortunately, it didn't help any of the black graduates in the country that year. didn't help other people from other classes at that very university. and just this week it was revealed that the private equity fund that he runs forced layoffs. so this is part of the economy. while we still hahave angry to those down, it is a hope, not a strategy. >> and do you think that in a country where michael bloomberg said that he would spend a $15

million to $20 million just to register voters, which is actually good. he will register a lot of voters. and so do you think all of this money that will get thrown at trying to get someone other than elizabeth warren or bernie sanders to be the nominee ultimately what ends up with that, do they end up winning? can you beat someone who has billions to throw around to stop one kind of candidate in. >> i think michael bloomberg should announce that he will raise money from other people the way everybody else does. i do not think that he should attempt to purchase this race. if he is able to get out there and get votes the way others are, fantastic. welcome to the race. i'm concerned that given that you have -- part of what we talk about in the "time" piece, you have a pretty historic moment where two of the top three or four candidates in this race are outside the consensus and i think this money is organizing to find the horse that if can bet on as to top the end of the --

>> 100%. zuckerberg has his fingers in it, they are all trying to find a nonwarn, nonsanders candidate. i hope everyone will read it. this is the cover story in "time." thank you for being here. and coming up, nepotism giuliani style. any comments doug? yeah. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ green things and brown just eat the food. i'm allergic to all things green. [audible sigh] ♪

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albany is the capital of new york state. washington, d.c. the capital of the nation. and new york city will again be the capital of the world. >> it should be on so aso and i be so. >> andrew as it right, it will should be so and it will be so. may god bless each of us as we prepare to give our children a stronger and healthier city. it should be so and it will be so. >> remember that? 25 years a ago. andrew giuliani captured the nation's attention by up staging

his father during as inauguration as mayor of new york city. and now little andrew is all grown up and works for you. that's right. while his daddy acts as donald trump's personal attorney and accuses joe biden of nepotism, giuliani's son has a white house gig. andrew giuliani makes $95,000 per year as a sports liaison for the white house. that is a job where he helps arrange storts team visits so donald trump can feel important and beloved. and just to remind you how your tax dollars are being spent, almost 20 sports teams have won championships and half were not invited or declined the invitations. and when the teams do come to the white house, some are treated to things like big macs and whoppers. well done little andy. maybe you can hang out with donald trump's daughter and son-in-law who have white house jobs too and attorney general

yim b barr's son-in-law who has a job there and they can all talk about how bad and horrible it is. coming up next, a few thoughts from our sisters in law on impeachment. w thoughts from our sisters in law on impeachment. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa when youyou spend lessfair, and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.

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the most common side effect is nausea. quit smoking slow turkey. talk to your doctor about chantix. we have the statement that the president gave to ambassador sondland. i want nothing, no quid pro quo. >> reasonable people could look at all of this and come to different conclusions.

>> an impeachable offense should be compelling, overwhelmingly clear and unambiguous. and it is not something to be rushed or are taken lightly. i've not heard evidence proving the president committed bribery or extortion. >> yeah, you did. each revelation was more blockbuster than the next. but to hear the republicans tell it, there is nothing to see here. joining me now, mya wiley, barbara mcquaid and joyce vance. let's start with sondland. here he is. >> mr. giuliani, president trump, secretary pompeo, secretary perry, brian mccorm k

mccormick, mulvaney, and his senior adviser rob blair. ambassador taylor, ambassador volker, a lot of senior officials, everyone was in the loop. >> and that sounds like a witness list. and the question is whether or not the house will try to call these witnesses who seem like the logical people about to want to talk to next. right? and they will all probably say no. but here is an interesting piece. there is a way that in the actual impeachment trial in the senate there might be a way to get them to talk. and it says here if the house were to go to the district court, any ruling would eventually be appealed to the stre supreme court. but chief justice roberts would preside over the impeachment hearing. he'd be the judge. he could in theory make rulings there on the bench on the evidence and the power of the senate to compel systtestimony essentially moving directly to impeachment the house would get its best chance ever winning the

testimony of bolton, mulvaney and others because he could literally rule on the bench in the senate hearing. that is a fascinating outcome. does it possible? >> no. i mean, it is fascinating by the way, not that theoretically you couldn't imagine a possibility. so not to denigrate the argument. it is just not realistic in any way. and here is one reason. it suggests that a sitting supreme court justice, in this case the chief justice, is essentially signaling to the land how the supreme court would rule on these types of evidentiary questions that it has not yet ruled on and with cases coming up through the pine line. i don't see the chief justice essentially saying here is my position, i'll give to you in this impeachment hearing.

the senate holds all the kaurds wh cards when it comes to who the witnesses are and how they are heard. they won't want to see a repeat of what they saw in the house. so they will do what they did in the clinton trial which is have -- they will just are accept the deposition evidence and transcripts from the testimony. you won't see a parade of witnesses. i don't see the calculus that suggests that this is at all either politically desirable on the part of the senators who are -- particularly the republican snoenators and i don think the chief justice wants to be in this position. >> at the same time, you will have a 2r50trial in which i thit the senate will just are stipulate to everything that we have heard.

you won't see the same witnesses again. but the only fresh witnesses are the principles. the john boltons. if they have evidence that the president is innocent, you'd think that they would rough to testify. >> and i'm not sure mya. but if these questions were presented to john roberts as the presiding judge, i don't know that you get an appeal from that. it is such unchartered waters here on how you deal with rulings out of an impeachment court. i think the senate can overreal justice roberts because they get to decide the rules of procedure within their own chambers. so perhaps they koverrule him. but i don't know if it is a process to elevate to another court. but as a matter of strategy, i think you have to ask yourself if you are a democrat do you want to call these people

aligned with president trump. typically prosecutors only put withouts on the stand where they have a shot at knowing what they are like i to say. they have been in the grand jury, the old adage of not asking a question to which you do not know the answer. if you put a witness up there that you've never talked to before, it is very high risk. they could shade their testimony to protect their interests. >> so we've put joyce here in the middle and we'll make you decide who is right on this. what is your ruling. could the chief justice of the supreme court rule on the bench? because it is -- i'm not sure that i've ever heard impeachment trials being appealable to the supreme court. but could he be in a position to say if mulvaney is called, if bolton is called, they got to show up? >> you know, i think both barb

and mya have big pieces of this right. this is an unprecedented situation. so john roberts perhaps likely has the ability to make evidentiary rulings in the course of impeachment proceedings. i don't believe that there is any process for appeal out from the impeachment proceeding to the courts to be september that there is any appeal, it is decided upon by the senators themselves. and we know how that goes. so the real issue here is what is practical and what can happen. and like barb says, there are too many known unknowns if prosecutors were to go ahead like this. putting witnesses on the stand who they have never heard from before. if they had testimony that was favorable to the president, we would have heard from them. if they wanted to help the for thes standing up for the rule of law, they would have testified. they have the ability to comean.

so if they fail to show up, the american people will know that he has something to hide and this process is so new and so overtly political as opposed to criminal that republicans will control it in its entirety. they won't let anything happene president. >> and i actually agree with barbara. high point is that chief justice roberts doesn't want to be in that position. it is not goabout whether peopld take an people directly to the supreme court in impeachment. it is that there are other cases parallel to this in which executive privilege and some of the other privileges that donald trump is asserting in a blanket way will come to the supreme court. he does not want to be in the position of saying here is my position on these questions that will come before us as a court. >> so let me go to another issue here in terms of what we'll see in this trial. because as people need to

understand, the impeachment as we like to explain is the indictment. so if the house goes ahead and votes through articles of impeachment, that is like donald trump is indicted and then the trial takes place in the senate presumably adam schiff and other house members would be the prosecutors, right? hopefully i'm getting this right. they would come in and actually present the case and the senate is the jury. so everybody understands what is happening here. and joyce, what happens if the jurors, who in this case like a grand jury can request witnesses, say we want the whistleblower, we want hunter biden, we want witnesses that will allow us to defame those people and that is the way they run it? could they do that? >> i think we're already seeing that in progress, joy. lindsey graham made requests this past week for some information about the bidens. this is likely the strategy in the senate.

distract people from the real issue which is the president 's conduct by invoking these bright shiny objects. >> and if they do that, could there be sanctions against them for trying to unmask the whistleblower? >> no. >> sorry, barbara, last word. could there be sanctions? >> i think the answer is no. i think the inspector general is proceed behinded from reskreeling the identity of the whistleblower, but mefbmbers of the senate are not so that could happen. >> it will be interesting. thank you all very much. >> it will be interesting. thank you all very much. these days, we're all stressed. (honk!) i hear you sister. that's why i'm partnering with cigna to remind you to go in for your annual check-up, and be open with your doctor about anything you feel - physically and emotionally. but now cigna has a plan that can help everyone see stress differently. just find a period of time to unwind. a location to de-stress. an activity to enjoy. or the name of someone to talk to. to create a plan that works for you, visit cigna.com/mystressplan. cigna. together, all the way.

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it has been a whirlwind week. more bombshell testimony got donald trump one step closer to impeachment. 2020 democrats made their pitch to voters. and lindsey graham launched an investigation into the bidens. and that was all just this week. things are not showing any signs of slowing down. but we're breaking it all down. and joining me are co-hosts of the podcast i would die for you and also moody mills who also is the founder of woke a.s. nation.

give us your rundown of the impeachment hearings. did it change anything? >> i think that fiona hill's testimony was a bombshell. i think that she once again -- because i'm very excited about the representation of women and how calm, collected and direct they have been in their testimony. testimony. it seems to me that the men have been squirrely, one foot in, one foot out, like gordon sondland. but the women have had conviction to the truth, to their jobs, to being patriots, and have been so forthright. so, this week, i think her testimony in particular was reallyte illuminating for the american people. i was following in twitter and watching on television, and the reactions were staggering, saying, oh, my god, i cannot believe this. >> 100% on all that, but i had all the popcorn while gordon sondland was doing his thing and talking about, i don't want to work with rudy giuliani.

it all came from the top, from trump. everybody knew, right, as our new episode was -- >> everybody was in the loop. >> everybody was in the loop. and when he broke down, like, we didn't really want -- or trump didn't really want an investigation. he just wanted the't appearancef an investigation. >> the appearance, yeah. >> so he can hold that over his head, the new hillary emails. >> why is that important? >> because trump has been trying to make the point, republicans have been trying to make the point of we care about corruption in ukraine. no, you don't. you just wanted the new thing to hold over your opponent's head. but the thing that jumps out at me, too, is that the democrats seem to be trying to get at the truth. now, the truth is of personal political value to them, but they seem to want to get at the truth. g republicans' whole thing is we are going to make this into a partisan food fight so our people can say, it's just a partisan food fight, we don't need to pay attention. they throw every lie and gaslight and problem in the way. and at the end, devin nunes comes in, now we go back to the basement for t more secret hearings.

>> right. >> in the bottom floor, you do classified briefings every day. it's not a secret, communistic thing. >> also, it's what they put together. the republicans, when theyat we in thes, majority, created the rules that democrats are following. >> this is their rules.ra the other things republicans are doing that is shocking is that now they are actually the ones attempting to smear and investigate the bidens. so the russians don't even have to do it. we're self-actualized now. the republican party is willing to do it. >> you know what i love, too, is oh, first it was quid pro quo, now it's bribery, next thing it will be extortion. >> all the same thing. >> they're all synonyms. >> we said that on our podcast, they're synonyms. do they know what synonyms are? >> probably not. >> they don't speak latin, so they don't. >> they might have graduated from trump university. >> oh. >> oh! >> sorry. >> and got spanks on their graduation day. butua i think what's really troubling is the fact thatin th republicans don't care about the truth. >> right. >> is the fact that in allic of their questioning, the questioning is about -- hunter biden has become the new, but

her n emails. as long as we can continue the conversation around hunter biden, which he's already been exonerated. there's nothing there, much in the way there was nothing with hillary clinton's emails or benghazi, but let's waste the people's time and do what we can to distract. >> here's the way t it's not a waste. if, in fact, joe biden was to be the nominee, it's easy to see that russia would be able to run the exact same playbook with the help of the republican party that joela biden would be hilla clinton. >> ldabsolutely. >> does that then, to switch to the democrats for a moment, does thatr harm his candidacy, even though there's nothing to these fake scandals? >> you know, i am -- we spent about half of the first several episodes bemoaning the fact that joe biden is at the top of the race. i am not -- i don't see the policy that joe biden is talking about that would merit so many older black people -- >> putting things back to obama era. that's what the policy is, putting us back to the obama era. >> that's what's propping him ba up, right? contingent of older,

black voters that are riding with him because they know him, because they find him comfortable, because he stood by obama. that was not a sacrifice for him to standfi beside obama for eig years. >> amno. >> and we continue to ask, like, why does he have a standing invitation to the cookout? i don't understand. just being next to the black president of the united states but not actually having any policiesal that are going to advance our community. i don't get why he is polling at 50% with us right now. >> let's talk about the other candidates. pete buttigieg has become sort of a phenomenon media weiwise, g well in the polls in iowa but is still having trouble getting african-americans on board. why is that? >> why is that? because w pete buttigieg, when had the issue with the unarmed man being shot in south bend, his reaction was terrible at best, right? and his -- what he did, instead of going to the black community in south bend, he went outside to national african-american figures to usher him through this process. i think that mayor pete has got

to do m a lot of soul searching and it shouldn't be in a focus group. that wase a conversation -- th is what cory booker said on the debate stage. why --e a little bit of shade, but a-- lot of reality -- why d you need a focus group to teach you how to talk to black people? >> does mayor pete need to make sure that tape gets released of the other policing issue? which is what i hear back from people about him that is still a problem. >> i want to pull back the lens just a little bit, joy, because i'm disappointed with all the leaders right now, because the black vote is the core of the democratic party, especially black women. but this is the spine of the democratic party. i don't see enough of any of them -- warren, biden, sanders, buttigieg now -- reaching out to black voters and saying this is what's important to you, this is what's important tont me, and these issues that matter to you -- i mean, i hear some lip service of it here and there. >> yeah. >> but they're not treating us like a truly important coalition. >> did harris go some way toward doing that this week the at the debate? because she did drop a bomb on he democratic party about thee black e vote. >> i think harris is in a

position right now, and jonathan capehart wrote a fantastic piece this week saying that, you know, she has nothing left to lose. and i think that she showed up in the right way at the debate and she brought our issues front and center in a way that they should always be. >> yeah. the podcast is called "democracyish." you can download it wherever you download your podcasts. thank you very much, teray, danielle moody mills. more "a.m. joy" after the break. danielle moody mills more "a.m. joy" after the break. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home.

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"a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow, 10:00 a.m. eastern. up next, alex has the latest in this incredible, historic week. and i'm sure you have a huge show planned for us. >> oh, my gosh, we all do. i mean, it's just been extraordinary. we're all kind of exhausted from all of it. >> yes. >> trying to keep all our ducks in a row as we look at it, but you did a great job the last two hours. i'll pick it up from you, my friend. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> a very good day from msnbc headquarters in new york. high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." it is day 61 of the impeachment inquiry. we are following breaking news as nearly 100 pages of state department documents released overnight by a watchdog group appearing to show a clear paper trail from trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, to secretary of state mike pompeo. those emails back up ukrainian ambassador marie yovanovitch's testimony last week that giuliani waged a smear campaign against her. joining me right now, kimberly atkins, washington