we dump now to alex witt. >> you can stick around if you want to. lovely in pink, we watch up, it's all great. >> it's a good day. >> i think you're ready to go. >> thanks, alex. good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york, it is today, day 62 of the impeachment inquiry and new wrinkles in the past 24 hours that shed light previously missing aspects of the investigation. here is the very latest from what's happened right here on msnbc. >> the house is now heading towards the next phase of the impeachment inquiry as the public portion of the intelligence committee's investigation appears to have wrapped up. >> new reporting from several outlets including nbc news about devin nunes. lev parnas an associate of rudy giuliani who has been indicted is willing to tell lawmakers congressman nunes met with an ex-ukrainian official to get dirt on joe and hunter biden. >> they have only confirmed what we already knew, that trump did indeed want something from

ukraine, namely an announcement that ukraine would investigate joe biden and his son. >> nearly 100 pages of state department documents released overnight by a watchdog group appearing to show a clear paper trail from trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani to secretary of state mike pompeo. >> we have this new additional batch of documents as you just reported from american oversight that further confirms what sondland said, that everybody knew what we were doing and why we were doing it. >> more breaking news to get to right now as vice president mike pence indirectly addressing the impeachment inquiry today during an unannounced visit to iraq. >> partisan politics and endless investigations have slowed things down a bit in washington, d.c. >> with this impeachment plane currently at 30,000 feet, democrats now need to figure out where they're going to land this thing. >> we are going to go over all of this morning's developments now in the impeachment inquiry with our reporters and analysts. our first big headline this

morning, president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani on the defense as his role in the ukraine scandal is further put under the microscope. giuliani now maintaining in a new interview he did the right thing and that he's not afraid of what may come next. >> are you afraid, mr. mayor, that you could be indicted? >> oh, wow. do you think i'm afraid? >> i don't know. >> do you think i get afraid? >> well -- >> i did the right thing. i represented my client in a very, very effective way. i was so effective that i discovered a pattern of corruption that the washington press has been covering up for three or four years. >> let's go to the white house now, nbc's hans nichols at his post there for us. goorj to yo good morning to you, my friend. rudy giuliani is walking back comments that he made yesterday on what he called the insurance. what's he saying now? >> reporter: so rudy made a lot of comments, he appeared to attack allies, appeared to suggest that the president, his client, he has an insurance

policy against him should something happen to him. he obviously went after the bidens on several occasions, but i think it's really his insurance policy comments that are getting the most attention. now, later he claimed that he was sarcastic, alex, i want you to have a listen and tell me if you think this had a sarcastic tone. >> okay. >> have you talked to president trump in the last week or two? have you met with him? are you still his counsel? >> i don't discuss -- i do not discussion my conversations with my client. you can assume that i talk to him early and often. >> yeah. >> and have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments, which are totally insulting, i mean, i've seen things written like he's going to throw me under the bus. >> right. >> when they say that i say he isn't, but i have insurance. >> okay. >> it's ridiculous. we are very good friends, he knows what i did was in order to defend him not to dig up dirt on biden. >> reporter: now, that didn't seem like it was in jest to me.

later mr. giuliani the former prosecutor tried to clean it up saying this is all just sarcastic, the files that he was referring to are about insurance policies, these are bidens files that he apparently has somewhere in a safe. we should note that it was just two days ago that president donald trump called into fox for that 57-minute interview, he had nice things to say about rudy giuliani. i also think we need to take a look who else rudy giuliani attacked. obviously the bidens, but he also took a shot at john bolton, he said, look, if john bolton thinks i'm a hand grenade, john bolton is a nuclear bomb. this was rudy unleashed, he was obviously throwing a lot of things out there. he spent a little bit of time cleaning it up. on the crucial question of just what role he plays at the white house there isn't a lot of clarity. is he the president's chief legal attorney? is he a personal attorney? is he freelancinfreelancing? is his work done? it's unclear to what extent he's involved in the day to day response of trying to keep his president out of legal jeopardy, out of any sort of jeopardy in

the impeachment trial and just what sort of jeopardy rudy himself is in. so i think this story has a couple more iterations to it. >> i agree, i don't think he was being sarcastic at all, i think he was making a statement for everybody to hear, but like the president who says things often and then has to walk it back by saying, oh, i was joking. well, anyway -- i think we interpreted it the same way, we will leave it at that. thank you so much, hans nichols. julia manchester reporter for the hill. julia, with a welcome to you. >> thanks, alex. >> your interpretation of giuliani's comment. do you think it was sarcastic? because it's not the first time he has said something like this. >> it's certainly not the first time he has said something like this, alex, and i don't think we have to look any further than michael cohen to see that president trump has definitely turned on those advisers and attorneys close to him and i think that there is a feeling or there could be a feeling among giuliani and those close to him that, you know, his involvement in this shadow diplomacy in

ukraine amid this impeachment inquiry, ahead of the 2020 elections, could cause president trump to distance himself from him. there is no doubt that giuliani's involvement in ukrainian foreign policy and trying to meddle on behalf of the president is damaging to the president going forward in this impeachment inquiry and we know that democrats are using giuliani as sort of a launching point to go after the president. so i think there is a real concern among those close to the president that giuliani could be a risk going forward and i think giuliani could see that. >> you know, hans touched on this when giuliani responded to john bolton calling him a hand grenade, saying, well, if i'm that then, you know, he is an atomic bomb. well, i spoke to congressman ted lue who sits on the house josé diaz-balart, obviously responsible for drafting articles of impeachment and he said he would still like to hear from bolton. here is that. >> i would love if ambassador bolton chooses to come and

testify like many of other folks in the state department instead of trying to sell his book. he certainly has information i think that would be relevant to this impeachment investigation. i hope he facts as a patriotic american, as many state department officials have, and come and testify before congress. >> do you suspect or expect that john bolton will testify? >> it's certainly possible and there's certainly bad blood between john bolton and the white house right now. i mean, we can just look back this week to that, you know, his claims that the white house -- white house meddled in blocking his twitter account or meddled in censuring his twitter account, if you will. i think there's definitely bad blood, but we will have to see what john bolton can really offer and i think democrats will definitely look into that, but it seems that john bolton was present for a lot of these phone calls and as national security adviser was tied tightly to this issue of giuliani meddling or giuliani conducting a shadow foreign policy with ukraine and

he could have some potential information on that, so i think this will be ultimately up to bolton and his lawyers if he has to be sustained or not, but i would suspect that democrats want him to come before the committee, yes. >> so as the josé diaz-balart considers articles of impeachment do they interview more witnesses? >> i think that's the question. and we've seen some members of the judiciary committee try to say we would like to see more witnesses come and democrats may need that. there is some recent public opinion polling that shows that the american people or at least respondents in those pollings are starting to get fatigued by this impeachment inquiry and may think that this is essentially a political move by democrats. so i think democrats -- the democratic calculus right now is essentially to bring in more witnesses to further make that case. remember sondland's testimony this past week was incredibly damning for the president, so i think the judiciary committee might need to further drive home that point that there is a need

for impeachment at this point. >> how about in the senate, do they call witnesses? >> you know, i think there might be a need in the senate as well for democrats to call witnesses and even republicans. i think the senate is obviously slightly more moderate than the house, not as extreme when it comes to politics and such, so there might still need to be -- might need more, you know, i guess, a need for more witnesses to come and make their case and for democrats and republicans to really investigate that, however, we will have to see how this plays out in the house first before it hits the senate. >> okay. from the hill, julia manchester, thanks for getting us started. >> here is our second big headline, everyone, a brand-new poll giving us a fresh look at how the public is feeling as the impeachment inquiry reaches day 62. according to the survey by yahoo and ugov a majority of registered voters, 58%, believe the president asked a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent. 51% said they believe he withheld military aid to ukraine

until they agreed to conduct the investigations he wanted. and 51% also said they believe he abused his powers as president. but despite those numbers the survey shows only 48% of registered voters say they favor impeaching the president or removing him from office. that is just slightly more than the 45% who oppose impeaching or removing him. now let's bring in daniel lit man reporter at "politico." i want to ask you, daniel, what's your reaction to those numbers? do they synch up for you? >> they don't surprise me at all because most americans are in their camps and they either support the president or they don't and so the hearings this week pretty much confirmed what americans had thought of this president. he had been accused of abusing his power before but this is kind of the most blatant case of it so democrats felt they had to do this impeachment effort, but if you are talking to hard core

trump republicans, it's not a big surprise that they are not going to abandon this president during his time of need right now. >> so that extent, dan, you have 45% who don't believe the president's actions rise to the level of impeachment, so did all these public hearings over the past couple weeks fall short in getting the support that the democrats were hoping for? how do you think the dems are reviewing this? >> i think democrats are disappointed, obviously they would wish that they had more public support behind them, but they feel like they did the best possible job in terms of presenting witnesses that were pretty rock solid like gordon sondland who had donated a million dollars to trump's inauguration committee and was on a pretty friendly basis with trump to -- you know, he was their star witness. so they don't feel like anything to have gone differently this past week. what they would like witnesses like john bolton and mick mulvaney to try to help their case, but i think a lot of

americans feel like this is going to be decided next november instead of, you know, mike pence getting the white house. >> you know, you've got this piece out there that through all these impeachment hearings its put the president through an emotional ringer. talk about that. what do you know about his state of mind? >> so he is very up and down. he is watching lots of cable news coverage and so sometimes he's feeling good about where he stands, other times he is very negative. it's hot and cold, hot and cold is what we're hearing. i think he thinks that he is the victim here, but you can't really win a reelection campaign just on painting yourself as a victim. you are the most powerful man in the world with lots of people at your beck and call, so trump has to kind of lay out a vision for what he wants to bring to the country in his next four years

if he wants to have a good shot of winning next year. >> can i ask you was there any particular moment that triggered the president either way into, you know, being depressed about things or concerned about things or really happy? >> i don't think there's one specific moment. i think it's every day is kind of an emotional roller coaster in the white house. so white house aides they have to kind of check in on the president's mood before they bring him any different, you know, matters for him to sign or issues to talk about and so that kind of makes life in the white house -- you're walking on eggshells a little bit. >> daniel lippman with "politico." thanks, daniel. let's go to breaking news now, wild weather wreaking havoc in several areas across the country at the start this have holiday week. it's a look at some pretty slick conditions caused by heavy rains in alabama. a few days ago new mexico got quite a dose of pre-thanksgiving

day snow. we have janessa webb joining us from new york's laguardia airport. i tell you, all eyes will be on the skies, lots of people traveling. what do we expect for the big week ahead? >> reporter: alex, you know, this is just storm number one. many people this morning they are braving the elements trying to get out quickly from laguardia to jfk and all of the northeast. i'm just getting reports from the national weather service, we've already seen about a half an inch to near an inch of rain in portions of new york so that ponding and minor flooding is still going to take place and the temperatures have really just dropped in the last hour. now, many of our -- the travelers that we talked to this morning, they're not really concerned. here is one of them. >> so are you concerned about the holiday travel? we have two big storms that are headed our way, so -- >> no, i don't really think about that. i'm a positive thinker, i just think, okay, we are going to

leave on time, catch the cruise and not be concerned about that. >> reporter: alex, so we're really loving all those positive vibes and these people are really smart to get out today. we are going to see kind of a lull in the weather pattern and then that next large system is going to be impacting about 55 million travelers this holiday season, getting reports that this could be the busiest travel season since 2005. when we take a look at the forecast, it will make its way throughout the midwest, into the northeast by thanksgiving eve. we really want to tell people you need to get out as soon as possible, but the airport is telling us this morning that please be prepared to show up two to three hours early, and, alex, even today, even though we're kind of seeing a clearing right now, the winds are still going to be gusting and by, you know, 9:00, 10:00, i expect a

big time rush and possible delays. >> i have to tell you my umbrella walking into 30 rock here this morning was this close to going inside out on itself, it was so windy. anyway, thank you for all of that info, very useful, janessa webb, we will see you again. jim jordan has been like an attack dog during the impeachment hearings but now he may face a dog fight to remain in congress. in a moment we will meet an ohio farmer to see why he may run to unseat the lodge time republican. and the prognosis for supreme court justice ruth bader ginsberg after a new health scare. bader ginsberg after a new health scare. es. verizon got me into the nfl combine, they don't even sell tickets to this thing. (announcer) verizon knows you love live music and sports. we got to be this far away from the stage. (announcer) that's why we give you access to more jaw-dropping experiences, including nfl games and events. i've never had a vip experience before like that. probably the best moment of my life. (announcer) switch now and you'll get access to thousands of tickets on us. plus, one of our best phones when you buy another, because the network more people rely on, gives you more.

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colonel, you never leaked information? >> i never did, never would. that is -- that is preposterous that i would do that. >> when did the meeting happen again? >> never did. >> you don't know who was in the meeting? >> it was not news to him that the president was pressing for a biden investigation. >> that's not what i asked. i asked why he didn't hair share it with us. >> please do not interrupt the witness any further. mr. jordan's time has expired but yours has not. >> republican congressman jim jordan of ohio questioning witnesses at the impeachment hearings this past week. jordan is up for reelection and now a farmer from western ohio is considering a run for his seat. >> members of congress on both sides of the aisle are more interested in scoring political points than creating solutions to help the people who sent them there in the first place. solutions for working people, farmers, and small business owners. people like you and me.

hi, my name is chris gibbs. >> and joining me now chris gibbs. grain and cattle farmer from shelby county. chris, with a big welcome to you on this sunday morning. let me quote you from something else you said about republicans in general. you said in an interview i never expected the republicans in congress would wilt in their responsibility to their oath to serve the president over serving their districts. i imagine that's why you've launched this exploratory committee to wage this campaign against jim jordan. you are going to do this as an independent. why is that? >> i tell you what -- thanks for having me, alex. you know, our party system has failed the american people certainly. the parties are now used as fortresses to simply just lob insults and bombs and so forth back and forth and that's not what the people want. people are interested in solutio

solutions, they are interested in being listened to. as your clip would exemplify, folks in the fourth district here haven't been listened to. if you don't subscribe to a far right ideology, you're not represented. the farmers haven't been represented certainly, labor hasn't been represented as well. so it's time for somebody to listen, you know, my grandmother told me very succinctly that i had two ears and one mouth and i should use them in proportion and that's how i plan to move throughout this. >> do you think jim jordan has not served those in his district of which you are a part? >> well, certainly if you are on the far right you're served, but, again, labor, farmers, he's been -- he's been weak on agriculture for sure, hasn't represented those. so i'm going to be embarking on a listening tour over the next 30 days and listening to people and that's what we need is listening.

>> chris, i understand that you did vote for the president. somewhat haltingly. you weren't really in feet first, shall we say, but you voted for him in 2016 and you have had a foray into politics by being the chairman of your local gop district there. but you have stepped down. why did you step down? >> well, i stepped down actually back in 2014. >> okay. >> at that time i was looking for two things, i was chair for seven years, from '07 to '14 and had been involved in the party for 20 years, but i stepped down at that time because i'm a moderate on immigration, i know that we need immigration reform, but we need common sense immigration reform and the party wasn't moving that way. i also was looking for moderate candidates at the district and national level. someone that could bring everybody together. i've got to tell you i haven't found him. i haven't found him. apparently i'm going to stand up and see if -- see if that can be myself. >> farmers such as yourself are extremely important to a number of states in this country and

the influence of how the vote goes and you've suggested that if the president or jim jordan were to lose locally certainly farmers, that's it. a number of states would fall by the wayside. >> yeah. >> tell me the details of that ideology. >> sure. farmers hold kryptonite and i've said this, we hold that in our vote. if you look at wisconsin, michigan, western pennsylvania and to some extent ohio, farmers could be swayed one way or the other. if you just take farmers, the needle probably wouldn't move, but the agriculture community, farmers support rural america and support these rural communities. i want to tell you something, if the rural communities get dissatisfied because agriculture is hurting economically, if they get dissatisfied those needles will move in wisconsin,

michigan, western pennsylvania and to some extent ohio. >> chris, is that because -- i mean, what has the president done or not done? i know you, i believe, deal with soybeans and you've lost money, right? >> we've lost a lot of money. the trade war has been totally -- a total disaster for agriculture for the last almost two years now. farmers built their markets over three decades and what the president has done by taking attack of -- attacking our allies and our traditional trading partners by imposing punitive tariffs on them for aluminum and steel, has resulted in retaliation against farmers. so prices are static, we're static at below the cost of production on most commodities, so that's hurt us terribly. now, china is a whole another deal. china needs to be reigned in, there's absolutely no question. the difficulty is that the way this should have been done is we

should have used all of our allies to make a concerted effort towards china and getting them to adjust their technology transfer and their intellectual property theft. we all understand that. but we disinfect -- or we disallowed -- we took out all our allies and now it's just kind of go it alone with china and this phase one deal i'm not totally convinced it's going to happen. >> all right. well, chris, and we know you're not totally convinced as to whether or not you're going to make this run, but please let us know when and if you do and how you plan to oppose jim jordan. take care yourself. a halftime show that few will forget at the harvard/yale game. we will explain what prompted this scene. but first a familiar face showing up on "snl." yes, that is will ferrell. the "snl" alum played european union ambassador gordon sondland. he met up with the president

outside the white house. >> it's so great to finally meet you for the first time, by the way. >> oh, right. right. right. keep the quid pro quo on the low low. got it. >> i just was leaving right now. >> hang on, i just want to go on the record and say you guys lead to lay off my boy. everybody loves his ass. >> thank you. >> ukraine, russia -- >> that's enough. that's enough. >> they will do anything for this man. i know. i asked. (burke) at farmers insurance, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. even a- (ernie) lost rubber duckie? (burke) you mean this one? (ernie) rubber duckie! (cookie) what about a broken cookie jar? (burke) again, cookie? (cookie) yeah. me bad. (grover) yoooooow! oh! what about monsters having accidents? i am okay by the way! (burke) depends. did you cause the accident, grover? (grover) cause an accident? maybe... (bert) how do you know all this stuff? (burke) just comes with experience. (all muppets) yup.

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now to the morning headlines. breaking news this morning, three storms nationwide threaten to make a mess of this thanksgiving travel week. northern new mexico got a taste as you can see this week of the bad conditions, they will be dealing with in the days ahead. forecasters predict one storm will dump rain and snow on the northeast beginning today, another fast moving system will batter the midwest on tuesday with rain in the south and snow in the north and the third storm moves through the west on sunday. that means we can expect delays on the road, train stations and airports. ruth bader ginsberg with a i canning up in a hospital this morning. she is expected to be released

today after being admitted saturday for chills and fever. she will return to the bench monday after missing a day of arguments the previous week. she was treated over the summer to for a cancerous tumor on her pancreas and underwent lung surgery for lung cancer. the hour long lines in district elections are viewed as a show of support for candidates leading six months of often violent pro-democracy protests. the number of voters expected to crash the 1.47 million total ballots cast four years ago. pope francis visits nagasaki and hiroshima today calling for a global ban on atomic weapons while touring the two sites of the bombings on japan. the pontiff blasted the stock myalgia of nuclear arms as decreasing security, wasting money and threatening humanity. a group of students protesting climate change took over the field during saturday's jail/harvard game, the demonstration delayed that game for almost an hour. yale would go on to win in

double overtime 50-43. the house now heading towards the next phase of the impeachment inquiry following two weeks of testimony from a dozen witnesses. the house intelligence committee now working on a report it will be handed over to the judiciary committee which is then responsible for drafting articles of impeachment. should articles be drawn up and voted for it could then lead to a trial in the senate and joining me now virginia representative don buyer, a democratic member of the ways and means committee. welcome to you on a sunday morning. let's look at the past couple weeks of testimony. what are the articles of impeachment that you think could be drawn up by your colleagues in judiciary. >> they've been very focused on trying to stay on the ukraine, the betrayal of his oath of office, the asking a foreign country to interfere in our elections. we've been trying to be very careful that the articles of impeachment have nothing to do with the policies that we don't like. he is a republican president, won the electoral college.

you don't impeach a president because you don't like what he's doing with the epa or fish and wildlife service and tariffs. there's been so much that's come out from sondland and the diplomats this past week. i think it's clear we can make the case that trump tried to get ukraine with the help perhaps of pompeo and barr and others to investigate his political rival and that's just wrong. >> congressman, i want to take a look at what the "washington post" is highlighting which are challenges democrats face on impeachment. a focus on a new poll from wisconsin, the marquette university survey shows 40% of registered voters in that state favor impeaching trump but 53% oppose it. how do democrats win back any support for impeachment in states that the president sees as key for his reelection just like this one? >> it's a good hard question but i think the bottom line is that we should never have been proceeding on this on the basis of polling.

i think we realize that many of our front line members, people who could ee i will -- who won close elections last time and could lose the next time. in virginia people have come forward because they honor their oath of office, they want to do the right thing not the political thing. we don't want to be putting our finger up in the wind and say are we winning the polling battle. i think we felt all along if we could get to the truth, whatever the truth s then the american people will be with us. >> how about your constituents, what are they saying? >> well, i had a town hall meeting in dc williams high school in alexandria the other night, we had 400 people show up. i think it was -- among the comments it was two to one in favor of impeachment, among the people in the audience it was about -- i think our numbers are showing basically four to one for impeachment, for removal. >> how much do they want to talk about impeachment? we hear all the time complaints about this because it's side lining other issues that are more important, bread and butter issues to people's daily lives.

>> yeah, i think it's really incumbent on us as leaders of the democratic house to make sure that we are pursuing our own strong political agenda. i am hopeful that we will actually get close to ratifying the new nafta 2, the usmca by the end of the year. we have great legislation now on reducing the price of prescription drugs, got some good stuff in there to expand affordable housing. in fact, i think most democrats would love to get past impeachment so we can get back to the work of making america ever stronger. >> i would like to make the point made on my broadcast yesterday that the congress, the house, is putting forward many bills. you are passing things and moving them on to the senate. what's happening in the senate? >> i tell you, alex, that's a great question because it's so disappointing. i've been making the case that this has has been more productive in terms of constructive legislation than anytime in the last 50 years. you almost have to go back to 1965 when we did medicare,

medicaid, head start and many other good things. right now everything dies on mitch mcconnell's desk. with he desperately need in the 2020 election i think we not only need a new president we need a different senate so that -- and right now unfortunately mcconnell has said again and again he won't take up anything that the president won't approve which basically says -- suggests why do you need a senate at all if you're just going to be the president's lackey. >> so, congressman, building on that let's say the president is not impeached in the senate, no the removed from office. what happens then? do you think there is a move to censure him? >> many people have suggested that's the milder approach right now. maybe. but i think right now we're going to go forward with what the witnesses are telling us. and just the stuff over the weekend, discovering that nunes was back perhaps looking at ukraine and biden in the months before he took over as -- in these impeachment hearings. there is a lot more.

gotten and his new book. hopefully we will have more of the people that were central to this come forward bravely, appropriately to talk. >> you brought up something, we have a sound bite from adam smith who is talk being exactly what you just discussed relative to devin nunes and the ukrainian gentleman associated with rudy giuliani and how they may be related. take a listen, sir. >> do you believe that this should be a matter for an ethics investigation regarding mr. nunes? >> quite likely without question. and i do understand that a piece of this is about joe biden, but the bigger thing is about what president trump and the russians and all these people have been doing as systematically as the senator just pointed out and as you pointed out, this is a systematic problem that is a threat to the country because of what russia is doing. >> what are the chances there will be an ethics investigation of devin nunes? >> well, we probably need to hear from lev parnas first who has made these allegations, but

it doesn't take a lot to trigger an ethics investigation. that doesn't mean he is guilty but it does mean a bipartisan equal number of colleagues will look seriously at it. it is pretty disappointing to think that nunes might have known all about this ukraine stuff before and then innocently co-chairs the impeachment hearings without ever disclosing what he knew and that he was actually part of it perhaps. >> that would be something to discuss. that is for sure. virginia representative don buyer, we should point out that devin nunes is denying these allegations by lev parnas and beyond. i will look forward to speaking with you again, sir. thanks so much. looking forward to talking right now with david gura. you are coming up at the top of the hour on "up." i love saying that. it's so -- coming up on "up." any way, what's up with you? >> ray mavis will join us at the top of the hour, the former secretary of the navy. his successor has strongly considered quitting his job after president trump began to meddle in the case of a navy

seal convicted of war crimes. you interviewed that farmer who might challenge jim jordan out of ohio. two democrats are hoping to take down two more of the president's top defenders in congress, one a businessman in fresno, california, go up against devin nunes, the other is jamie harrison trying to topple lindsey graham of south carolina. >> sounds like we are shining a light on other options. there you have it. okay. david, see you soon. who is driving the bus that may be running over rudy giuliani? it may not be the president. we're going to explain that next. and coming up at 5:00 eastern on "politics nation" with al sharpton, democratic presidential candidate kamala harris, you can also watch cory booker tonight at 8:00 eastern on kcdc. all of it here for you on msnbc. . all of it here for you on msnbc. e libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time,

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are you afraid, mr. mayor, that you could be indicted? >> oh, wow. do you think i'm afraid? >> i don't know. >> do you think i get afraid? >> well -- >> i did the right thing. i represented my client in a very, very effective way. i was so effective that i discovered a pattern of corruption that the washington press has been covering up for three or four years. >> the president's personal attorney there, rudy giuliani, on the defense now after several witnesses invoked his name in their testimonies over these past couple weeks detailing his efforts to facilitate a smear campaign against a former ambassador to ukraine and efforts to pressure ukraine to investigate the bidens.

joining me now trial lawyer and msnbc legal contributor katie phang and former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner. glen, you first, what do you think of giuliani comments? do you think he should be concerned? >> i think giuliani should be concerned because, you know, parnas and fruman his two associates were not quite clear on whether he was representing them, they were business associates, but they're both indicted in the southern district of new york for corruption. so i think rudy does have to be concerned. when i heard the clip, alex, of rudy saying, well, i heard people reporting that, you know, trump might throw me under the bus but i've got insurance, i have to tell you, i went to law school a long time ago but i don't remember ever taking a class on how to threaten your client. >> yikes. >> i mean, that really is inappropriate on giuliani's part. i think it shows that he is scared. >> it's interesting because, katie, with regard to the insurance statement there, you know, giuliani has since come back and said, you know, i was

joking, but your interpretation of what he said. >> so giuliani said it twice, alex. he said it to the guardian earlier this month when it was specifically asked of him as to whether or not there was concern that trump was going to throw him under the bus. his response s i've got insurance against that, and now we know he told fox news the same exact thing. there is that old adage there is no honest amongst thieves. i wouldn't be surprised that somebody like rudy giuliani has kept receipts like lev parnas apparently has got receipts. lev parnas the known associate like glenn was saying of giuliani, his lawyer is saying that parnas is begging to come to congress to tell about the associations with all of the white house involved in the ukrainian sandal and so i think it's really important for giuliani to be careful. like glenn just said there is an attorney/client relationship there, alex. the person who holds privilege has to be donald trump, but if there's crime fraud exception to be applied here, i couldn't get a better example of how to apply

it. giuliani has to tread carefully. frankly giuliani on his destruction of credibility tour this is the next stop apparently. the fact that he is threatening flea has insurance on his client is problem for both of this em. >> glenn, do you think he gets indict snd. >> i think there's a very good chance particularly if lev parnas flips and based on what parnas' lawyer is saying it looks like that that may happen. >> we will see. glenn and katie, thanks so much. the case of a navy seal accused of murder, how it's causing a rift between military brass and president trump. that's next. etween milarity brass and president trump. that's next. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed

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i hope to contribute going forward. the president of the united states is the commander in chief. he is involved in every aspect of deposit. he can make decisions and do things and give orders as he deems appropriate. . >> joining me now, world news editor with daily beast and msnbc contributor and welcomed guest on my broadcast. good to see you, my friend. this started with a presidential tweet last week saying they will not take away warfighter and navy s.e.a.l. eddie gallagher's trident pin. why is the president so invested in this case? >> i think partly because the president never put on a uniform, never served with anybody wearing a uniform, never went to war, dodged the draft. he wants to look macho by supporting super macho navy s.e.a.l.s, including those accused of murdering others in this case. it's a very strange thing. i don't think people who actually put on a uniform, i

don't think other navy s.e.a.l.s want to see this kind of treatment of chief gallagher. but donald trump thinks it will play well with voters who are like him. >> what about eddie gallagher himself? in fact, let's listen to his reaction. it happened just moments ago. >> i'm overjoyed he stepped in. this is about ego and retaliation. nothing about good order and discipline. they could have taken my trident. now they are trying to take it after the president he stored my rank and exposed all the kroepgz that was going on during my case with craig miller to admiral green. recently we have come up with more evidence we will be posing at the secretary of the navy was meddling in my case and trying to get organizations not to support me while i was

incarcerated. >> lots to unpack there. extraordinary that he is accusing navy secretary spencer. he said this is about ego, retaliation, not about discipline. what's he talking about? >> reporter: he's talking about creating a huge smoke cloud around the events that took place. we know pretty much what happened. there's some dispute about details. but they were -- the s.e.a.l. platoon was operating with an iraqi unit near mosul. a house was hid. they found a kid who was 15 years old who was an isis fighter at some point. at some point gallagher stabbed him. the question was whether he murdered him. it turned out that the medic actually terminated the kid's life by plugging up his breathing tube. there is no question gallagher

stabbed him or posed with the body afterwards. these are things that are not respected by other soldiers, military law. they come pretty close to war crimes if he was acquitted. he wants to create a smoke cloud. it is very trumpian, isn't it? . >> i want to get what nbc news reported. defense secretary mark esper, general mark millie, secretary of state mike pompeo, all warned the president of following up that tweet with any sort of formal directive. what does he get against going against some of his top advisers? >> reporter: he thinks it makes him look tough. he thinks it makes him look like a powerful leader. and now he has gallagher saying he's a great leader. that's what he wanted.

that's what he's getting. people shouldn't believe it, because it's not true. . >> thank you so much, christopher dickey. have a great thanksgiving. thank you. >> impeachment on the mind of michael bennet all ahead on "up" with david gura. "up" with david gura. not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa introducing new vicks vapopatch easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. new vicks vapopatch. breathe easy.

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that's a wrap for me. i'm alex whit. see you at noon eastern. time for "up" with david gura.

this is "up". i'm david gura. on this sunday morning, new details from the chairman of the house intelligence committee on where the impeachment inquiry goes from here. as his republican counterpart is at the center of controversy. devin nunes met with ukrainian prosecutor to discuss the investigation of hunter and joe biden. super tuesday just 100 days away, the candidates are trying to shore up support from black voters. we will talk with someone from south carolina is, jamie harrison, who is challenging lindsey graham. and michael bennet is in new hampshire. the president at odds with military leaders. former secretary of the navy. according to nbc news, his successor considered quitting that job as the president got