this is "up". i'm david gura. on this sunday morning, new details from the chairman of the house intelligence committee on where the impeachment inquiry goes from here. as his republican counterpart is at the center of controversy. devin nunes met with ukrainian prosecutor to discuss the investigation of hunter and joe biden. super tuesday just 100 days away, the candidates are trying to shore up support from black voters. we will talk with someone from south carolina is, jamie harrison, who is challenging lindsey graham. and michael bennet is in new hampshire. the president at odds with military leaders. former secretary of the navy. according to nbc news, his successor considered quitting that job as the president got involved in the review process

for a navy s.e.a.l. an update on ruth bader ginsburg as well. she has been hospitalized this weekend. former congressman david jolly, msnbc contributor, and hayes brown, senior editor and reporter from buzzfeed news and host of podcast impeachment today, which i recommend to everybody. and former federal prosecutor, special counsel to the senate committee on the judiciary. i will start with that news about devin nunes who seems to be close to the center of that story the committee has been investigating. it sounds like congressman nunes could face another ethics investigation into a meeting he reportedly had with the ukrainian prosecutor in which he discussed investigation into the bidens. >> do you believe that this should be a matter for an ethics

investigation for mr. nunes. . >> quite likely, without question. >> details of the secret meeting surfaced with one of rudy giuliani's associates was prosecuted. congressman declined to comment to nbc news and threatened to sue two other news organizations who reported on the meeting. rudy giuliani addressed the story saturday on fox news. >> devin nunes says he didn't meet with him. i have no reason to believe that he did. in fact, if he did, there would have been nothing wrong with it. >> those close to victor show kin said he has never heard of this person. there could be another ethics investigation. he was under investigation accused of sharing classified information with the white house related to the russia investigation. 2017, the house ethics committee

cleared him. bring to bear your experience on capitol hill and talk about how novel this is. there was somebody sitting there asking questions over the course of two weeks. now at the center of the story had something he was not revealing that is pretty significant. . >> well, here you have a guy who looks like, according to the accusation, went to collect information on biden and then goes to a hearing in which he makes the defense without revealing that he went and did this. also the timing is really suspicious. when the republicans lost the house, between that time and the democrats taking over the committee, he took three aides, including derrick harvey, former nsc appointee, with him to go to where? vienna. to meet with this former ukrainian prosecutor. so i think we have at least three witnesses besides nunes who is denying this happened. and show kin i think has also denied that it happened. but we had a history in that.

in fact, we were taught by lewandowski, if they are not under oath, lying is okay. when the enemy of the people is nunes and his associates and these people who lie daily for a living. >> how important will it be given what he just said to get lev parnas to capitol hill to testify, to go under oath? all we know is what was said from his attorney? how important is that? >> i think it is pretty important that he come in and testify because he obviously has firsthand evidence. you couldn't write this -- if you were a hollywood screen writer, you couldn't write this. this is crazy that devin nunes is up there every day seemingly on the verge of having a heart attack -- the monologue day after day. >> he is the one who actually met with the ukrainian

prosecutor. he literally cannot make this up. i can't imagine what was going through his head every single day as he was up there interrogating witnesses, trying to discredit incredible public servants who came in and served their country at the highest honor, when he himself knows he has a lot to disclose here and he is not disclosing. i think it is important that parnas testify. it is written on the wall. he threatened to sue some of the outlets. you cannot make this up. >> we heard from congressman at the top. jackie speier saying if nunes were using politicaler wands in vienna for this puppeteer, donald trump, an ethics investigation should be initiated and he should be required to reimburse the

taxpayers. to the ethics investigation, he's been through this once before. the bar is low for these things to be initiated. likely to happen, you think? >> possibly. but, look, i would first say devin nunes wants to sue the media over this. what a burch of thin-skinned weak hreupb weaklings. lev parnas said he met with them. stop trying to sue the media and all that other stuff. on the ethics investigation, the house ethics committee gives a lot of deference to members. without a direct tie to some type of campaign contribution that he benefited from or an actual bribe, which clearly there is no reporting of, the question is did he bring ill repute upon the house by not disclosing to the intelligence committee or his colleagues going into the series of hearings that in fact, he had a conflict or additional

information. that he wants a legitimate ethics inquiry. it's hard to prove. it's hard to suggest that he was using taxpayer money for raw political purposes. but what also this suggests to me, the intelligence committee and devin nunes. who knows what led up to it. they were clearly orchestrating some type of benghazi of joe biden. you recall what happened with hillary clinton. kevin mccarthy was honest. he lost his speakership pause he said, look what happened when we had the hearings. hillary clinton dropped in the polls. they were preparing to do this to joe biden. they were trying to be the congressional arm to help the president in a political campaign. that's without question. >> hayes brown, trying to package all of this, two weeks of stories, the stories that percolated up, how much does that distract from the task at hand? we talk about the timetable, whether or not there might be a vote by christmas or new year's recess. is it a extraction?

how does it affect the timetable? >> so i think it affects the time able, they have been all about moving ahead. they don't want in ig to slow them down. people not responding to subpoenas hasn't slowed them down. i doubt they are going to let an ethics investigation slow them down as well. my guess is adam schiff will be preparing this report that the intelligence committee needs to do or the articles of impeachment drawn up there. i think it is really, like you said, absolutely wild that that is happening with nunes to begin w. there's so many people in this story who cannot be taken credibly. parnas has been indicted. he's trying to find a way out. according to his lawyer, he wants to testify as long as his fifth amendment rights are protected. he is not incriminating himself. his lawyer said he would not be saying these things if there weren't text messages and other

things. we could have a very interesting time moving forward as we figure out if parnas can sit before house intelligence committee and testify. >> a question for you. i want historical perspective having been through this once before. recall what it was like at this moment in the late 90s when this happened. in other words, testimony had been heard. the prospect of this moving to the senate. what do you remember of that time. what are lawmakers going through and what happens next? . >> we're talking about the clinton investigation? . >> yes. >> severe depression, actually. i sat on the floor in the front row when livingston came to the floor to ask for paoeplt. and he also asked for clinton to resign. i was sitting next to congresswoman maxine waters and she said, you should resign. because of an affair he confessed to, he stepped down as speaker. she said did we do that?

i said what do you mean we? i didn't say anything. we had hopes that it was a good team. the principal defense what he did, as offive as it was, was not a high crime and misdemeanor. this does not exist in the defense by the republicans, which is to throw everything at everybody to betray their oaths, to lie, delay, and to do what they can. and i think that the democrats have to stop this 19th century approach and have a multifront and they have to think about successive impeachments and what they do about barr. these are actual crimes. we have an attorney general who is as corrupt as the ones in ukraine and the earlier administration. he has 93 who are not prosecuting anybody despite all of these disclosures. it is a shame and a disgrace. >> something we will talk about later in the show.

thank you for joining us from washington, d.c. >> still up ahead on "up", a rampup to the senate, michael bennet. justice ruth bader ginsburg, an update in just a minute. upde tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. to help you grow and protect your wealth. but in my mind i'm still 25. that's why i take osteo bi-flex, to keep me moving the way i was made to. it nourishes and strengthens my joints for the long term. osteo bi-flex - now in triple strength plus magnesium.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. we're awaiting news on supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. she's been hospitalized in baltimore.

she's at johns hopkins after she experienced chills and a fever friday night. the spokeswoman said the expectation is the justice will be released as soon as this morning. it comes following a day of missed arguments. she fought cancer four times. at 86, she is the court's oldest justice. it was from three months ago exactly regarding the treatment she got for cancer at sloane kettering. what do we know? . >> we know very little. they release information after the fact. all we know is that she was hospitalized, chills and fever. they felt very strongly in putting in the station she would be released and she was feeling last night. we know virtually nothing that caused it. we know she's 86 and this is the third time this year we have had

a major medical scare. >> in the three months, it is something she's talked about. i'll play a little bit from when npr sat down with them and talked about her health. this is what the notice had to say. >> there was a senator, who after the pancreatic cancer, who announced that i would be dead within six months. that senator, whose name i have forgotten, is now himself dead. and i'm very much alive. >> very much alive. the late senator from kentucky. talk about that. how she deals with this, the fervor, maybe hysteria surrounding her health. >> that is vintage, bless your heart, by the justice. look, she's 86. she has had three cancer scares now.

everything is at stake. this is the biggest term, we have talked about this, in my career covering the court. she has a punishing tramp schedule. the minute she was released from the hospital, she took out on another world concert tour talking to people all around the country. and so she takes it upon herself to perform, that she is not going anywhere. that is not helping her health situation either. >> i will turn to you quickly here. when this happens, there is talk about what would happen if she were to step aside. five republican appointees, four democratic, one a third trump appointee would make it lopsided and move the court to the center right. this was something -- how does it change going forward what

they are describing as the gravity of this potential change. >> it is what keeps democrats up at night. we know donald trump and the republicans are so giddy every time ruth bader ginsburg gets sick. they think oh, my gosh, this might be able to put the court solidly in our favor. my friend brian fallon started an organization called demand justice, which is solely focused on making sure that we are keeping judicial appointments in check, that we are keeping republicans and democrats. support from some of these right leaning judges has been confirmed. we finally have an organization that is solely focused on this. that is a testament to how seriously we took this in 2016 and how much work we are putting into this as a party. it is something republicans have always been on top of more than democrats. now democrats are competing in that regard. >> the effort toe gte the

president's tax returns, his business and personal tax returns. there were two filings this week, one related to new york and one to manhattan d.a. side as well. where are we in this process as they push back on what president trump and his attorneys have said, this shouldn't be released. are we awaiting a ruling? >> we certainly have the new york case, a d.c. case. both implicate the same questions, whether the president has to release his tax returns. d.c. congress said they need to set up some laws to protect against corruption. we have cyrus vance saying he needs to figure out these payoffs. he lost in the district courts. the appeals courts have ruled against trump as well. now the question really is whether the supreme court wants to weigh in. last week john roberts put the whole thing on pause and said don't turn over the documents just yet. we will give you a chance to brief it. we will hear this. the only question is whether the supreme court, there is no

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this is "up". i'm david gura. a federal judge will decide my the end of day tomorrow if don mcgahn has to testify in the house impeachment inquiry. there is a finite window of time to effectively object contain andcgahn's testimony. president trump directed him to seek removal of robert mueller back in 2018.

tomorrow's decision may provide clarity when it comes to executive privilege. but, according to politico, even if mcgahn is ordered to testify, that ruling could be put on hold until any appeals are sorted out and a source close to mcgahn said the ex-trump aide won't testify until that is worked out, possibly delaying things yet again. on that point you know well on how long these things can take. this is the calculus when it comes to this case, charles kupperman, mick mulvaney as well. do they wait for this? how long might it take? >> i did some research pause i thought there had to be a formal rule to force judges to fast track things. there isn't. the template from 1973, the judge fast tracking the tapes case, that was his own determination and he just made that decision. so here we have judge con tingy

jackson who said it is coming down monday. we hope that's true. that can still go to the d.c. circuit, onto the u.s. supreme court. so i think that the house dems just made the decision not only that they are not going to sit around and wait but, in fact, they are going to assume these are acts obstructing their inquiry. they will draw the inference that this is them being blocked. >> how important is this testimony? you have don mcgahn back at his law firm. he hasn't espoused the eagerness to testify the way john bolton's attorney has. >> it's important. but we have in the mueller report, the three elements of obstruction of justice. they involve mcgahn under oath testifying, giving testimony to mueller. so we have the underlying charge already satisfied. it is very important to understand the pays line argument the white house is making here. this is not about executive privilege. executive privilege is something that you exert once you appear. and it's well protected by the

courts. he could show up and exert executive privilege and not answer questions. that's fine. this is involving him, bolton, mulvaney, others, the white house, the executive branch, is constitutionally immune from having to testify to the united states congress. and there is no legal basis for that, which is why they will lose in court. here's where i think democrats face an important decision, strategy moment. we now have seen a focus on the underlying abuse in power article of impeachment with ukraine. we got that. we understand that. don't make the obstruction charge ancillary to that. focus on a few weeks on obstruction. schiff should say we are moving articles to judiciary december 15th. we want these witnesses. if you don't appear, you will be censured by the u.s. house. then schiff can move an obstruction article over the white house impeding mulvaney,

pompeo, mcgahn and others. make the obstruction article on parity not just ancillary. >> censure is being thrown around. >> i think censure is not the end of the line. i agree with you about obstruction of justice need to go nail that down rock solid. when drafting the articles of impeachment which there will be a vote on them, they do need to make sure that in drafting them, they are trying to make sure that at least as many as possible are let proof so when they are turned over to the senate for the trial, there is less room for interpretation as far as did this happen or did this not. when a senate is forced to vote and for guilty or not guilty for each of these charges, there is a very clear line of evidence in place for each of these charges. and obstruction of justice, i completely agree. you have to really hammer them to be sure.

mulvaney is not going to testify. in pompeo and bolton aren't going to testify. if they say none of them have firsthand knowledge, you really need to lay that down. >> devin nunes has been the leader and public face of republican opposition to impeachment on the house intelligence committee. as we discussed, he may be the subject of that investigation as well. a handful of candidates trying to unseat him. one will join us next, joining us from los angeles when we return. m los angeles when we return that is amazing.

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mr. chairman, you have been falsely accused throughout these proceedings by the ranking member as being a quote, unquote fact witness. now, if this story is correct, the ranking member may have actually been projecting and, in fact, he may be the fact witness if he is working with indicted individuals around our investigation. >> well, this is "up". i'm david gura. that was eric swalwell calling out a fellow californian devin nunes saying nunes may have played a role in the scandal. >> what was the full extent against the trump campaign? in these depositions and hearings, republicans have cited numerous indications of ukraine meddling in the 2016 elections to oppose the trump campaign. >> this is a fictional narrative that is being perpetrated and pop grated by the russian

security services themselves and the cause of this investigation i would ask that you please not promote politically derivative false hoods. >> devin nunes and his colleagues being taken to task there. devin nunes won by 35 points in 2016. he was re-elected by a margin of only 5 points. now no fewer than three democrats are trying to unseat him in his district. ar biosaid his war chest has been raised by a quarter million dollars since the start of the public hearings. thank you for driving from fresno down i-95. grateful to you for doing that. >> we have had a tremendous

ground swell of grassroots support for my campaign in the central valley. i think people are really understanding from this last week and a half what devin nunes is really about, and that's about serving in his best interest and the best interest of this president. we raised almost $300,000 in the last week and a half from nearly 10,000 individual contributors with an average donation of $22. so this is really a grassroots campaign to take out devin nunes in 2020. >> we are familiar with his background in dairy farming. talks a lot about the central valley. what do you say to constituents who say he is from this place. agricultural bread basket. how do you make the case for his candidacy versus his? >> it's simple. i'm here. i'm present. i'm invested. this is where i grew up. this is where i'm raising my family in the central valley.

devin nunes hasn't been a farmer in almost nearly two decades. and he is a career politician who has lost sight of his job as a representative of the 22nd congressional district right here in the central valley. what i would like to say is i'm just a regular guy. this is my first time running for office. and my only interest in this race is what's best for my family, for my children, and their future here in the central valley. i'm fully committed in this job and in crafting the best future that i can for my children and in turn, the communities and the families here in the central valley. >> how does the national spotlight change a race like this? regular guy running against the ranking member of the intelligence committee. you look at what's happening upstate new york and how much money cobb raised. i'll quote here from the

hometown newspaper. devin nunes is weak at the front of president trump's impeachment hearings. catch-22 facing the congressman as he prepares for the 2020 re-election campaign. the more visible he is, the more power his opponents have to run against him. >> yeah. it's significant because you have millions and millions of people watching these hearings. you are seeing devin nunes act so uneducathicallunethically. seeing steph nick getting in these fake fights with adam schiff. people are mad and saying i'm going to give 10 bucks to this opponent, 20 bucks to another opponent. that is allowing them to raise significant amounts of money. for congressional districts, it depends on where you are, where you're running. sometimes you need to raise $4 million to $5 million to be competitive. congressman jolley can attest to that. you cannot buy enough paid media to make these moments that these

candidates who are challenging the opponents, you can't paint the media to allow what's happening on national television to help your campaign in that regard. again, i'm one of those people who gave to some of these opponents. you just can't believe you are watching public servants, being paid by your taxpayer dollars acting so unethically and ridiculously as they are. >> how tricky is it for politicians like phil. >> i agree that especially in this day in age, not just are you playing for national tv, but trying to go viral and get your message out to as many people as possible. on the democratic side, i clipped something from shawn patrick mahoney where he nailed tkpopbd on his evasiveness and how long it took him to get to the truth. that really blew up.

so i think that as, you know, people in congress see the ability to go viral with these clips, really make an impact, they're going to be playing for it more and more. not just on tv but to actually spread across the internet as well. >> david jolley, i don't want to draw too close a parallel to what happened with eric. but when you're in a party's leadership, it gives you some remove from your district by virtue of the obligations you have in that role. there is a peril therein. >> there is. you have staff strategies for that. as adrian was saying, when a race becomes nationalized, the money does come in. it creates an interesting situation. usually they are turnout or persuasion races. turnout, meaning not a lot of persuasion. you need to turn out moreirense

or democrats to win. persuasion is we need to go in a new direction. rarely do you see it be turnout and persuasion. devin nunes race, it does become both. you have the money. you have a clear case for changing directions from the current incumbent. >> are you comfortable with this being an actual race. you're here on this national tv program. are you keen to be in a national race. >> absolutely. this is the way we're going to win here. everybody needs to come together to invest in this race, in the central valley so that we can get rid of devin nunes once and for all. i welcome all the support we have had from all over this country. it is a collective effort. we can't do it alone in the central valley. in terms of getting out our

message and having the resources to do that. ultimately, we're going to have to go to the polls in november of 2020 and vote out devin nunes. i encourage everyone to go to phil arballo and chip in $5, $10, $15, whatever you can so we can once and for all get rid of devin nunes as our representative here in the 22nd. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. . >> appreciate it. >> it is being called authoritarian, ignorant of history, the other was implicated in the ukraine scandal. that's next. that's next. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it -

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ambassador sondland confirmed that there was not only quid pro quo but that the secretary of state knew about it. >> we kept the leadership of the state department and the nsc informed of our activities. and that included communications with secretary of state pompeo, his counselor ol' rick bruck bull, lisa kenna and communications with ambassador bolton, dr. hill, mr. morison and their staff at the nsc. they knew what we were doing and why. everyone was in the loop. it was no secret. everyone was informed via email days before the presidential call. >> so what's next for mike pompeo? proud kansas plans plant like mike pompeo, there was no place like him. he is considering moving back to

kansas to run for senate. meanwhile, another one of the president's men, attorney general bill barr under fire for his defense of president trump. one of them former solicitor. conservative is respect for the rule of law, respect for tradition. people who claim their conservatives today are demanding loyalty to this ignorant, foul-mouthed president. let's start with bill barr and make our way to mike pompeo if we could. there was this extraordinary speech by the attorney general, the federalist society a few days ago. received a lot of coverage and criticism. this was the attorney general going beyond what past attorney generals have said. another one he delivered at notre dame, religious liberty, which he was criticized as beyond the pale, something we haven't seen before. what does it tell you and tell us about this attorney general. >> sure. according to those who identify as republican and libertarian,

they feel he is laying legal groundwork for a more authoritarian view of what the president can do. they disagree with this. they think it lays out a system of checks and balances where each branch is able to keep the other in check and in line and have oversight. what bill barr has laid out is the executive branch have almost unlimited authority. and in this reading it lays out the duties but does not seek to impose checks on top of the executive. >> when you look at that statement and who signed onto it, george conway is on there, charles freed of harvard law, somebody who spoke out a few months ago on chris hayes here on msnbc forcefully against what the president and attorney general have been doing. what does that mean having those names attached to a document like this? >> the attorneys represent sort of the other side of a conflict

that brings within the conservative party, what does it mean to be conservative and republican. we have seen senators and congressman all falling in line behind donald trump and say what the president is doing is not a republican party. off to the side there are scholars, attorneys and others who have been deeply disturbed by this shift. now we are seeing those voices emerge, especially, you know, george conway has been a constant critic. other folks have had a lower profile are coming to the floor saying what we want is a return to a conservative ideal. we want less spending, a world in which while we believe in strong executive power, we don't let people running amok. it would be interesting to see which voice prevails. but after the election 23 trump were to win again, which version of the conservative party would come out. >> senator jolly, with the

criticisms that you're making, katie points out so well in her speech, bill barr gave his speech at the federalist society. documents and memos he has written to folks in the justice department. what's novel about it, it got parroted on capitol hill. what he said about the impeachability is something we hear emulated, repeated by folks on capitol hill in defending this president. >> and the danger. what the lawyers are doing is pulling the fire alarm on bill barr. this is very serious. the founders intended to pit ambition versus ambition. they knew it would try to grab more power. anecdotally we considered bush and guantanamo, that was executive authority. become become with daca by executive order. he said i don't know if i have the constitutional authority to do it, but i'm doing it. under enforcing federal

marijuana laws. what bill barr is doing which is dangerous and new is suggesting that the president is above the law. he is doing it by saying the department of justice cannot indict a sitting president, so the president is no longer accountable to the department of justice and the executive branch. and he is arguing the administration is constitutionally immune of accountability by the congress. what the attorneys are saying is mr. barr, you're going too far. this is not about executive authority. this is about removing a president from any accountability. that's the danger we face when we reach these comparisons of th authoritarianism. >> you looked at what was in there. how does it change the narrative? the secretary of state has been quiet on these issues, not answered questions. he's been traveling in brussels. spent a lot of time in kansas as well. how does it change his position? . >> he's tried to keep out of the spotlight. it's amazing that he is the one that is more in danger now. hesitate name was in the trench

september 25th. pompeo, when he was first asked about the whole ukraine affair on the 22nd of september, he kind of dodged the question. we later learned he was in on the phone call. he was on the phone call when president trump talked to president zelensky of the ukraine. the undersecretary of state, twice during the spring when marie yovanovitch was under fire from rudy giuliani and others, pompeo called up giuliani twice. so on march 24th, yovanovitch tells the state department here's what's happening to me. hale briefed pompeo on the 25th. the 26th and 28th of march, he calls for rudy giuliani. she's eventually recalled because she's lost, you know, the president's faith. now, the president can withdrawal any ambassador he wants, a repeated talking point. but why was it necessary to smear me to do so, she asked. pompeo was clearly in the mix.

he knew a lot more than he haslett has let on. gordon sondland hammered that home. he was aware of the investigations that the president wanted. >> adrian, lastly to you, state race, local races you know so well. going back to kansas to run in this race. he has been coy is a fair word. his job has been not thinking about it. has that door closed? >> i don't know that the door has closed, david. but i think it has a list. we have to remember kansas is trending more purple. this is not a deep red state. it is trending more purple. he already is going to this race with a challenge. but i think if you're mike pompeo, you have to announce sometime soon, right? the election is looming, right? secondly, i think his theory is maybe if i just hide a little bit, people forget that i exist, i can slide my way into this seat. but kansas voters will not

forget. and if he run this election, i'm sure the nrs, and the campaign committee is looking into this too. i don't know if we want this guy on our ticket. he is vulnerable. he will have a lot of money raised against him. they might be looking for other people. he might not have much of a choice in this decision. >> thanks to everybody here in new york. katie as well. david jolly, hayes brown with me on set in new york. coming up, what would a senate trial look for? michael bennet is going to join us next. that's coming up. to join us next. that's coming up fidelity has s for online u.s. equity trades and etfs, plus zero minimums to open a brokerage account. with value like this, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. fidelity.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. after 35 hours of testimony from 12 witnesses, it appears the house permit select committee on intelligence wrapped up the portion of the impeachment inquiry. one, president trump, two, rudy giuliani. he continues to be a thorn in the side of the gop. a legendary figure in our country. he has a long history of throwing aides under the bus, rudy giuliani said he's not worried because he has, quote, insurance against the president. he claimed on twitter he was

being sarcastic and it goes to files in my safe about the biden family's 4 decade monetizing of his office. giuliani is ramping up attacks, alleging biden confessed to committing bribery back in 2018 while also moving malleable senator lindsey graham into his crusade against the bidens, which is not sitting well with the former vice president. >> they're asking lindsey graham -- they have him under his thumb. they know if he comes out against trump, he has a real tough road for re-election, number one. i am disappointed and quite frankly i'm angered by the fact that he knows me, he knows my son. he knows there is nothing to this. lindsey is about to go down in a way that i think he's going to regret his whole life. what do you say to him? >> i say, lindsey, i just -- i

just am embarrassed by what you're doing, for you. i mean, my lord. >>er is lena maxwell for sirius xm, msnbc political analyst. and mimi with the southern district of new york, and phillip is with the "washington post". emily cochrane is a congressional reporter for the "new york times". emily, let me start with you. let's bookend what we just heard. you walk around the walls of congress, has your finger on the pulse today. what did he have to say about the long relationship he's had with the senior senator from south carolina. >> no question they have a long relationship. certainly president trump has transformed the republican party and how people approach relationships that were prior to his administration. so i think it is just another indication of how many folks in the senate on the republican

side are preparing to offer a full defense of president trump. >> in just a minute we will talk to a would-be juror, the senator from colorado, presidential candidate will join us. emily, let me ask you because you have done such good reporting and writing on this. what do we know what the trial would look like. here as we enter this thanksgiving recess, we look ahead to 12 legislative working days when lawmakers return to washington, d.c., where do we stand in terms of what that might look like? >> it's still pretty unclear at this point. as you said, there are certainly a lot of republican senators offering their thoughts on how long they think it should go. a couple folks are pushing for a quick trial. others want to give the process the time to play out, to give allegations their day and to give the president a chance to defend himself. we heard over and over again complaints that he hasn't had that opportunity.

there are some that feel a republican-controlled senate is a good arena for that to happen. >> phillip, i'm having to return to you. somebody else might be facing scrutiny as the ranking member of the house intelligence committee in light of the reporting we have seen over the course of this weekend from nbc and the "washington post" and others. how does that change this story? what we have learned over the course of the weekend over the role that you played not in the investigation but what is being investigated. >> well, i think everything operates under this umbrella of how everything has been taken so far. it is important for us to start by saying since this impeachment inquiry is announced there is a big spike in terms of support for impeachment of the president, removal of the president. it has been essentially stacked. part of that is because the way in which america is viewing this process, viewing this inquiry, viewing this testimony is very, very polarized. yes, there are new revelations

about devin nunes. he has been under scrutiny since donald trump came into office. his star rose with donald trump. everyone started paying attention to him. a tacit reference was made he was under scrutiny for having revealed this information early. >> run to the white house. . >> exactly. devin nunes is able to weather the storms is the function that donald trump is can weather the storms. the fact that donald trump hasn't taken a beating makes me think that devin nunes is okay. >> with associates like this, who needs friends. you have rudy giuliani at the center of all of this. his lawyer is making allegations about this meeting between devin nunes and the former prosecutor. i feel like every time you're on the show, this is the question i ask you.

the mayor of new york and was the u.s. attorney here for the 7th district of new york, what do you make of what he's doing and how he is framing his role in all of this? >> every time his conduct gets more and more outrageous and unbelievable. it is interesting. i think rudy giuliani is a ticking time bomb. that's something we kept hearing. so i have seen this play out behind the scenes as a prosecutor. you have people who are was implicated in things together, which is what we have here. i mean, let's be clear, right? rudy giuliani has been clearly was implicated. donald trump has been was implicated. gordon sondland has was implicated himself and played at others in what i call a criminal conspiracy. and they are going to start pointing fingers at each other. right now maybe giuliani is holding strong and saying i'm doing all of this for trump. don't worry, he's not going to throw me under the bus. this is not going to hold. maybe the republicans are all in line, the political people around trump and staying strong.

my belief as a former prosecutor, when the pressure starts really mounting, which it already is on giuliani and others, i think, and we have seen it a little bit in statements people are putting out. pence pointing fingers at sondland and sondland pointing at everybody else, i think it holds up. i think giuliani, no matter what he says now about we're now on good terms, that's where this goes. >> emily cochrane, thank you for joining us from washington, d.c. i want to bring in michael bennet on the campaign trail in manchester, new hampshire, running for democratic nomination for president. let me belabor a metaphor to start. you're in the jury waiting room, let's say. no restrictions on what you are able to read, watch or listen to. in fact, you're able to talk about the case at hand as well.

with that out of the way, what is your sense of how things progressed now that the hearings have concluded? . >> well, what we heard is consistent testimony from extremely well regarded public servants that the president of the united states shook down a foreign leader to try to get them to intervene in the 2020 election. this, by the way, having completely ignored the fact that the russians attacked our 2016 election and then tried to deflect that by suggesting that it was the ukrainians that were involved in it. so he's up to his old tricks. this is what he has been doing since the last time he ran for president. what i hope that comes out of all of this at the end of the day is reassertion of the importance of the rule of law and the fact that nobody, including the president, is above the rule of law. >> senator bennet, you have members calling for an ethics investigation. in light of what has been reported about devin nunes. your reaction to that, what you

think needs to happen as we have seen on the pages of the "washington post"? >> well, it had to be one of the most pathetic moments in modern american history to see that poor member of the foreign service having to point out to members of congress that they had been spewing russian pop gran da the last two years. i'm on the intelligence committee, and i can't talk about the specifics i have seen there, but it is extremely clear, crystal clear that the russians have been trying to manipulate our democracy, that they did it in 2016, that they are still trying to do it. and that this whole notion of the ukraine being involved was a cover story invented by putin that is now being reported by people like devin nunes. i can't comment on the house ethics committee. i don't have a view on that. i can comment on how pitiful it is, who instead of acting in a

national security interest of the united states, people are basically doing the bidding of vladimir putin. by the way, that is the reason why donald trump needs to be a one-trip president. we have a lot of other reasons as well. but the fact that putin would like him to stay, china would like him to stay, iran would like him to stay. it just benefits their position in the world to have somebody in the white house who spends all weekend watching cable television and tweeting out to america instead of actually taking care of the business that the american people need him to conduct. >> serlina maxwell, fax are in dispute. that was an astonishing moment when fiona hill took the republicans to task. it was amazing to see the republicans preempt that to say she was in fact, wrong about what they had been saying all long. >> right. >> what we know of russian

disinformation, yes, in 2016 but at present and what we are likely to see as we move to 2020. >> so the big thing we have had is we haven't adequately dealt with the attack that happened before. and mueller told us that there's an attack currently happening. they're continuing to do this. we see bots and other activity in our social media spaces just like we saw in 2016. just anecdotally, members are seeing that and not knowing at the time what i was seeing. why am i seeing people who look like they are black bernie supporters, why am i seeing all of this activity. now i understand. so i think going into the next election, we have to understand what donald trump is alleged to have done is cheat in the next election. and part of this, the propaganda that the republicans are repeating, the social media activity and also his shakedown of ukraine are all part of the same narrative. and the narrative and the through line is the integrity of

the election that is coming up is not 100% certain. we're not sure that it's going to be fair. >> senator bennet, i said i would bookend here with that. the former vice president talking about senator lindsey graham and what he said, what he is agitating for, how he is persistent about the specious investigation continuing. what do you make of your two former senators there at lag lagerheads here? . >> well, what i make of it is we need a new generation of leadership in washington, d.c. these battles are doing nothing for the people that i represent in, you know, colorado or across the country. the kids i used to work for in the denver public schools, or all the people in america that lost health insurance as a result of donald trump failing to keep his promises.

they expect better of our leadership. to see lindsey turn around the way he has, freedom caucus which came to washington or mobilize or exercise self-government now become the donald trump republican party. we are seeing our democracy at risk. and that's what's at stake in this election, i believe. and that's why i'm continuing to run. because i think that i am best situated to beat donald trump in a general election because i come from the swing state. and we've got to win some purple states in order to beat president trump and get a majority that can make the united states senate work again for the american people. we have had a decade of this. and another decade of this is going to mean that my generation of americans is going to be the first generation to leave less opportunity not more to the people after us. that is shameful particularly because it's so unnecessary. we have a guy in the white house who is acting like he's in charge of his own reality tv show every single day.

but it's the american people's reality and it's our place in the world that's being squandered. i know it makes for good television and makes for a lousy position for this country going forward. and it's not the country that i want to turn over to my kids the next generation. so i hope that everybody, no matter what their view is on this, is that they get to the polls and they make sure that we vote. this is a one-term presidency and we begin to governor the country again not just for the interest of the people in washington but for the people all over the country would like to see when the economy grows, it benefits them not just the people at the top. it is not that complicated. >> thank you, senator. transformation of the democratic party. >> thanks. >> thank you very much. still ahead on "up", new reaction from adam schiff on the allegations facing his

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this is all about ego and retaliation. it has nothing to do with good order and discipline. they could have taken my trident any time they wered to. after what we just filed in ig exposing all the corruption going on during my case. >> welcome back to "up". i'm david gura. that was chief petty officer eddie gallagher, accused of being photographed with a dead prisoner's body. wall street journal pub isslish i report. nbc news first reported that they lobbied personally not to intervene in a probe that could lead to his removal from the elite navy s.e.a.l.s. and told the president to stop throwing weight behind him.

i'll have you react to that clip of eddie gallagher talking about what's going on here. help us understand where we are in this process. is there any point of what he said that you agree with? this could happen before. this is something that's happening now for political reasons. >> well, i think the thing that i think the most here is that here's a guy who is still on active duty. here's a guy who is going on television to argue this case. and it's so dangerous for good order and discipline, so dangerous for military force to get this politicized. you simply cannot have good order and discipline. you simply cannot hold people accountable, you simply cannot have the elite fighting force if you allow things like this to happen. >> secretary, this is a president who showed himself to be ignorant to the president before. he is focusing on a handful of

cases. but about this, about the trident review boards is what kind of precedent this would set, and what it means for other navy s.e.a.l.s in the same position. help illuminate that for us, if you could, how doing this, how the president intervening would change the way the president works in this branch of the armed forces. >> well, i think one of the things you said is so important to remember. what we're talking about here is a board of his peers, a board of s.e.a.l.s, five s.e.a.l.s deciding whether he is qualified to continue to be a s.e.a.l. and if you say -- if you can reach down, if you're a president who can reach down and say, no, this person can be a s.e.a.l., this person can do this in the military, then how do you hold people accountable? and to your point, 154 s.e.a.l.s have had their tridents pulled

since 2011 for various things. this is something the navy or any military force has to do. and if you set this sort of precedent, then how do you tell the next s.e.a.l. that is up on charges not to go public, not to try to undermine their superiors, not to try to change a military judgment and make it a political one. >> you mentioned the novelty. i'm not using that liberally, going on tv and talking about this. the issue is how this has been communicated by the president. he has tweeted about this. the navy will not be taking away warfighter and navy s.e.a.l. eddie gallagher's trident pin. this case was handled very badly from the beginning. get back to business. this was communicated by the president through no official channels. we remember well how they were

forced to fumble. there was no clear guidance from the white house. how problematic is that? is this point of all that's happened here, there hasn't been clear guidance from the white house? >> well, what the military has to have is clarity. what the military has to have is certainty. and the navy and the military, first the transgender case and now in this one has made it pretty clear, after looking at it, that a tweet doesn't aoe quote an order. you've got to know when the commander in chief or any commander is giving an order. you've got to know how that order is going to come down. you can't have just random noise coming in and no which one to follow. the military, the navy, the s.e.a.l.s in this case have to have certainty, have to have clear communications, have to know what orders they're

following and exactly how to do that. and this noise, this order by twitter, orders by just random sources, you just cannot have an effective military force if you operate this way. >> last question here. were you in the position of your successor of richard spencer? would you resign in light of what's happened here, the meddling that's happened here, would you take the step that reportedly he has considered? >> i'm no richard spencer. he is a very honorable person. this is something that has to be individual, has to be individual with every person. i'm not going to speculate on what i would have done or what secretary spencer is going to do. but the very fact that we're talking about this, the very fact that we are discussing whether a navy secretary might resign over this shows how egregious this is, shows how

serious this is, shows how out of the norm this is. when was the last time you ever heard of a service secretary considering or rumored to consider resigning over how one individual service member was being evaluated. this is so out of the ordinary and so egregious that the very fact that we're even talking about it shows how far we have strayed here. >> ray mabus, appreciate the time. this is emblematic of something, the president in pursuit of loyalty, trying to get folks on board with him and culling those who are not. >> this is a president who wants to project toughness. it is to say these people accused of heinous things, in some cases war crimes, they should be giving a pass, they

should not be punished for undergoing the actions he expects of the military. in doing so, he is elevating a fox news host who has been advocating for the same thing. that he wants why in part gallagher was on fox news this morning. all of this is enabled by donald trump. it is not necessarily eddie gallagher and his lawyer going on fox news to make the case. donald trump is opening the space for this to happen so he can project this image of himself as commander in chief that he likes to see. that is the context. >> are the president tweeting ahead of this interview not to watch this morning. two monument al kwraoebgs on capitol hill, we will hear from adam schiff on the road ahead after this. adam schiff on the road ahead after this with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader, iphone or android and manage your diabetes. with the freestyle libre 14 day system, a continuous glucose monitor, you can check your glucose levels any time,

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this is "up". i'm david gura. we are keeping awe breast of what's happening on the sunday shows. the chairman of the house adam schiff was on "meet the press" with chuck todd. they will keep investigate as they draft a report for the house judiciary committee. >> we have another election in which the president is threatening war foreign interference. at the same time there are still other witnesses, other documents that we would like to obtain. but we're not willing to go months and months of rope a dope in the courts which the administration would more than love for us to do. . >> the rope a dope continues. we are expecting this decision

from a federal judge tomorrow in don mcgahn's case, charles kupperman waiting in the wings, john bolton as well. memos, emails, and other documents being held at this point, not being given pack to the witnesses for them to use. the calculation that he has made, yes, all that exists here in the wings. we can't wait for that to happen. >> and i think that's the right calculation. they can't wait. they also can't drop it. and i think sondland's testimony this week personified or demonstrated maybe for people who didn't quite understand why is this such a big deal. sondland, that was i thought one of the most powerful, damaging points he made. >> it spoke plainly. >> he said i don't -- he was doing it for maybe self-serving purposes. i made mistakes in my past testimony because i didn't have all the documents. it's true. that part i completely buy as

opposed to biden and burr miss ma didn't get it. you need that when you're a witness. you need documents to refresh your memory. and the investigators need them to test your credibility. so these are really important things, witnesses, documents, evidence, that are approximate being withheld. they are an obstruction and should be an impeachment count in and of themselves. but schiff can't wait. the moment is here and now and he knows that. >> you had george kent and bill taylor there recalling amazingly as if they had photographic memories. >> yeah. you had people who are career professionals who take notes. >> david holmes. >> i thought it was really interesting that you had a number of witnesses with one character saying they have is in realtime they are taking

contemporaneous notes, which adds to their credibility because they are not going to be lying at the time. and also everything is more fresh. it is like when you were in school and you go into class and you take notes. maybe you should summarize it at the end of the day. >> i love the notebooks with different colors. >> i never did that. but i recommend it. it is probably a better way to summarize. the witnesses we saw told us a narrative that is simple to understand. the president tried to cheat in the election. the reason we can't wait, it is still affecting the election. they are still trying to do an investigation into joe biden. all of is to muddy joe biden and they're still doing it. >> exactly 100 days until super tuesday. one of the largest primary ad buys in history. we will play a copy of that next. and joined by former chair of the south carolina democratic

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this is "up". i'm david gura. breaking news, the former mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg, officially entering the race for president. he did it with an ad he released today. let's watch that in full. >> mike bloomberg started as a middleclass kid who had to work his way through college and built a business from a single room to a global entity, creating tens of thousands of good paying jobs along the way. he could have stopped there. but when new york suffered the terrible tragedy of 9/11, he took charge. he brought a city back from the ashes and brought back jobs and hope with it. creating tens of thousands of affordable housing units so families could have a decent place to live, raising teacher

salaries and kids's graduation rates, and et creating a more open and liberal city for the millions who call it home. he could have stopped there. but when he witnessed the terrible toll of gun violence, he put his money where his heart is, helping to create a movement to take on the nra and the politicians they own to protect families across this country and help turn the tide. and he's funded college educations for thousands of deserving low-income and middle-class kids and supported life-saving medical research and stood up to the coal lobby and outright denial of this administration to protect the only home we have from the growing men as of climate change. now he sees a different kind of m menace coming from washington. no stopping here because there is an america waiting to be built where everyone without health insurance is guaranteed to get it. and everyone that likes theirs can go ahead and keep it. the wealthy will pay more in taxes and the struggling middleclass will get their fair share. and jobs that just allow you to

get by will be jobs that let you get ahead. mike bloomberg for president. jobs creator, leader, problem-solver. it's going to take all three to build back a country. there you have it. the launch and the logo. jaime harris challenging him for the seat in south carolina. the candidacy overall here, $30 million plus ad buy the mayor has made. your reaction to what you saw and the late entry into this field? >> it sounds like it was an interesting ad. the ming the mayor has to do is to understand that he has to go everywhere. and particularly in order to win this nomination, you have to engage the african-american community. and that is going to be really

importan important. growing up with my grandparents, older americans make up 60% of our primary in south carolina will be african-american. they are fiercely loyal. they are very pragmatic and also forgiving. those are attributes that he has to understand about how you engage with these voters. the first thing, though, is he and all the other candidates have to do with what i'm doing in my senate race. you have to go where the voters are. don't expect them to come to your reality just to hear you speak. that's not going to happen. you have to go to where they are. that's really, really important. that is the movement we're trying to build on the senate race. and i would invite candidates to sort of model that. anybody that wants to join us go to jaimeharrison.com.

>> you look at him getting in late, saying these are early voting states. something we saw from beto o'rourke when he was trying to figure out what his campaign was going to be saying, look, we have this party structure. it's not working out, at least not for me. i'm going to go more broadly here. talk about that about the need to reach out -- you can't win this election without getting the black vote. >> it is coming to fore because of the demographic shifts. it seems to be more clear than ever that starting with iowa and new hampshire is not a good predictor of who can win the election or who is best suited to win the electorate. it is not white. women of color are the ones winning the elections. there is an uptick in the suburbs. people are leaving out in the most recent election in louisiana there was also an increase in black turnout in baton rouge and and other big

cities. i think we should keep a close eye on that as we analyze the candidates. if you can't gain traction among black voters, you're not winning. michael bloomberg had stop and frisk. he apologized but that is not going to help people who are incarcerated or harassed by police under his administration. and he defended it while he was mayor. every single time he runs, there's always a couple stories about his misogyny. >> they resurfaced in the "new york times" a couple of weeks ago. i was talking with the mayor of atlanta last weekend or the week before. yes, she is backing vice president joe biden. she had nice things to say about mike bloomberg and bloomberg philanthropies. as he tries to find some way to this nomination how much of that will be run in cities and towns, over the course of the year

since he was the mayor. >> it's a fair point. he started a grassroots music for himself. not himself, but next gen america. mike bloomberg did the same thing in a different way and more behind the scenes. he had mayors against gun violence. he engaged a lot of mayors in that fight. bloomberg actually has the lead and a less obvious way which may prove beneficial. what this is is this is a test of how much money does it take to get someone to become a real nominee. the amount of money is stalerring. a ton of money he is dumping into this. he has 10 times at least as much as donald trump does. he's an extremely rich guy whose

legacy itself is questionable. it will be interesting to see if the democratic party responds to bloomberg. i'm extremely skeplt cal that they could. >> jaime harris, in a state like south carolina, there was a piece in the "new york times" talking about the mayor pete buttigieg and the way he is campaigning. the number of black surrogates he has, that could fit in a one sport utility vehicles. just getting folks to vouch for his campaign in the state of north carolina. is he in a serious position to try to cobble together in the last few weeks? >> listen, david, great question. really what it's all about, not just the words the folks say but it's about their actions. that is really, really important. there is a lifetime, particularly older african-american voters have had a lifetime of broken promises. so some of the presidential candidates are getting stuck on

the what. for many of the voters they are asking the why and the how. that's going to be really, really important i think for bloomberg, pete orr any of these other candidates not well-known within the african-american community. folks have to see that it's not just empty words and promises that they are making in order to just get their vote. there has to be a history. or if there is not a history, you have to actually go into those communities, roll up your sleeves and actually start to help people now. we launched a program called harrison helps. which is doing just that, going into the communities, identifying challenges and issues they have and helping them. that's what i tell all the presidential candidates. people aren't just voting with their heads. they are voting with their hearts and guts. they have to make sure they are speaking to that just as well. if they don't do it they are not going to get that vote from the african-american community. if you don't get that vote, you won't be the democratic nominee.

>> always good to talk to you. thanks for your time. >> thank you. >> keep it tuned to msnbc for more 2020 coverage when senator kamala harris 5:00 p.m. eastern time. senator cory booker will join kasie dc on msnbc. two weeks of impeachment hearings, 12 witnesses. the message that is reshaping the nation. that is coming up next. g the nation that is coming up next ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪

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this is "up". i'm david gura. the public hearings on impeachment seemed to have come to a close. the jury is still out whether democrats were able to get their mental across to republican counterparts. they already seem to be cooling on the idea of an impeachment. national polls support for impeachment has shrunk since mid-october. the number of those who support impeachment has dropped from 46.4% to 41% at the end of this last week. earlier this week, national security analyst jeremy bash joined our coverage saying he thinks the decision ultimately lies with republicans in congress. take a listen. >> i think that's going to be the hard analogy.

whether it's appropriate for a president to use his office, to use taxpayer money be, to use military aid. if republicans think that's okay, they will stay on the president's side. if they don't think it's okay, they have reason to break. . >> supporters took to the airwaves calling it boring, embarrassing and unamerican. >> this is not american. this is a kangaroo court. and the idea that they don't know what to prosecute for is like a 5-year-old at a toy store. maybe this, maybe that, maybe that. >> if you are like most americans you didn't watch today's impeachment charade. here's the big takeaway. another huge dud and frankly an embarrassing spectacle for the entire country. >> the never-ending impeachment hearings just ended about 60 seconds ago. like an h.r. meeting convened in hell, the whole ukrainian impeachment saga is boring, hard

to understand and apparently goes on for eternity. >> convened in hell might be the case for devin nunes. great to have you with me, congressman. >> thanks. to that point, first of all, the utility of these as you see them, a lot of colleagues said it's a fact-finding thing. we learned new things as this evolved. but in terms of the public face of them, what was the utility and did lawmakers, did democrats hit the mark? the train because at the time he threatened to use the fcc to revoke licenses to me was an impeachable offense. it's like al capone.

i think we're seeing the president committed numerous impeachable offenses. numerous crimes. >> it carries a long wrap. subpoena it smart to have a broad impeachment or articles of impeachment? >> i think congress is right. we did focus narrowly on the intelligence committee. and anyone who doesn't see the corruption of what happens with ukraine, the abuse of power doesn't want to see it. they're not looking. it was proven ted days to sunday. if i had that case in a court, a jury would be back in a heart beat with a guilty verdict. we haven't had the trial yet. we learned new crimes along the way. i think, first of all, we have

to pull back. they signed the letter saying donald trump would have been prosecuted for obstruction of justice. we can't forget about that. i know maybe, you know, let the republicans have their talking point they can't get over it. but this is history. this is our record book. and whether or not it changes minds, we need to keep it in the public arena. we need to fully air it in a way that it still hasn't been aired. and i still think we'll learn new things along the way. this is a walking, talking, corrupt criminal president. he's using all of our agencies, you know, from the navy, we've heard earlier, you know, the department of justice, the state department from his own political purposes and that needs to be exposed for history. >> are the caucus meetings and the message is situate this in a moral context. don't worry about the politics. how easier said than done is that for you and your colleagues? i don't think it's difficult at

all for most of us. i think what speaker pelosi did is in this playout patiently. she 63 new freshman democrats. they were going to be comfortable. they became comfortable. they're the most at risk. they became comfortable. the idea we're defending our democracy here. are they swayble? is part of that getting republicans to come on board? >> yeah. and because in the house republicans are in districts where every weekend they go home and they get barraged by why aren't you protecting the president? that's what they're hearing. that's what they're telling me. somebody like matt gates. he told me that, too.

>> is it worth making the effort? >> yes, because, again, this is for the record. i mean, i think there is going to be a moment where some republicans may take a step back and say for the rest of history, we're on the record as supporting our criminal president. i think the difference in this case even in the mueller investigation we're looking forward now. mueller was looking back. now we're talking about conduct that impacts the future. and the integrity of our democracy and i just think there's so much at stake that we should not assume republicans are not going to do the right thing. we should actually hold them accountable for not doing the right thing. and hope they do the right thing. >> talk about this moment. you're a data guy. you've seen the engagement the viewers had with the impeachment hearings. what does it tell you about the body of politics as whole. how engaged people are with the subject. >> it's important. it's impossible to extract this

process in the moral characteristic of it from the policy of it. i mean, it's the case it's to get on record what happened here. it's the inspected by politics. i think it's important, folks, anyone who is watching this go back through and watch the segment and look how many times we talk about when the american public realizes what is happening. the problem we have, and i started with this and said it in the middle and will say it again. the problem is half of america isn't seeing this. that's going to be the reflection moving forward for american history of what happened in this moment. >> leave it there. next on "a.m. joy" representative jamie ras kin. that's next. ras kin that's next. into the nfl combine,

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wthat's why xfinity hasu made taking your internetself. and tv with you a breeze. really? yup. you can transfer your service online in about a minute. you can do that? yeah. and with two-hour service appointment windows, it's all on your schedule. awesome. so while moving may still come with its share of headaches... no kidding. we're doing all we can to make moving simple, easy, awesome. go to xfinity.com/moving to get started. that does it for me today. thank you for watching. "a.m. "joy"" starts now. >> are you afraid, mr. mayor, you could be indicted? >> oh, wow. how long have you known me? >> several years. >> think i'm afraid? >> i don't know. >> think i get afraid? >> well, -- >> i did the right thing. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." rudy giuliani, the former new

york mayor and trump lawyer who lead the rag tag ukraine extortion crew, may say he's not afraid of being indicted, but if the company he keeps is any indication, maybe he shouldn't be so confident. giuliani was on fox news on saturday, peddling more debunked kremlin conspiracy theories to defend himself, reports emerged that his recently indicted business partner is willing to testify in the house impeachment probe. if he does talk, he may have a lot to say about this guy. republican congressman devin nonees served as donald trump's human shield during the impeachment hearing may need shielding of his own. lev could testify that nunes met with ukraine's notedly corrupt top prosecutor about a investigation into the biden.