tune in now and apple tv. you can find me all over social media, twitter, facebook. snapchat, whatever that is, instagram and linkedin. thank you for watching. hi, every one. it's 4:00 in new york. two of the federal figures in the impeachment scandal, the president's acting chief of staff and his secretary of state are under new scrutiny today. acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney caught in di dicey e-mail exchanges. the washington post broke that story about the white house lawyers review the events after the center of the impeachment inquiry and they report quote,

the research includes early august e-mail exchanges between acting chief of staff, mick mulvaney and white house budge et cetera officials for withholding the funds after the president ordered a hold in mid-july on the merely $400 million in security assistance. brand new e-mails thrust mike pompeo ever closer to rudy giuliani. giuliani is known to burnto und investigation by the south korean district of new york. from the new york time, quote, the e-mails kaindicate that mr. pompeo spoke twice by telephone with mr. giuliani in march as mr. giuliani was urging ukraine to investigate mr. trump's rivals and trying to oust a respected american ambassador to

ukraine who had been promotie i anti-corruption efforts. mr. pompeo ordered her removal the next month. one call between giuliani and pompeo was arranged with guidance from mr. trump's person assistant the document suggests. as we come on the air we're watsing for news in the case that could move don mcgahn closer to cooperating with congress and testifying about his time inside the trump west wing. it's case that could have ramifications for the impeachment inquiry. the crux of bad publicity for all the president's men is where we start today. take us through this blockbuster story that when it landed

yesterday, my phone exploded with alerts and texts and e-mails. take us through what you broke about the e-mail exchanges where it looks like mick mulvaney is trying to conjure up some jus justification. >> reporter: that's right. it's great piece of reporting by some of my colleagues. it looks at the efforts by the acting white house chief of staff, mulvaney to come up with an explanation for why the president withheld the aid temporarily from ukraine. this effort was conducted after the aide w was withheld. a number of e-mails among and other budget officials in the administration and including some inquiries as to whether withholding that aid was legal. this was all conducted by the

way as part of a white house counsel office's review of that correspondence looking into this matter and it just shows the extent to which mulvaney and others in the administration were part of an effort to create a cover story for the president's decision to withhold that aid. >> there's so much in that story. i want to read you one more chunk. i got two more areas i want to explore. i want to get into this idea that the cover up appears to be inching as close as the crime in terms of the potential sort of blast radius for this white house and the people in it. let me read some more of this great reporting. you guys report that also included in the review from the white house lawyers our e-mail communications between omb and state department officials and others discussing why the white house was holding up nearly $400 million in military aid and whether the hold might violate the law. december 2018 months before the ukraine issue surfacediority fo

government accountability office warned the omb it was not following the law in how it chose to disperse funds. this seems like a much bigger swath of people that were concerned about criminalalty. i just never seen concerns about breaking the law laid bare from so many different pieces in is from omb and state, omb and the pentagon. all these witnesses testify they couldn't figure out why it was being held up. fiona hill told it was being held up for donald trump's domestic political errand. >> reporter: aid to ukraine which is the united states has been providing is appropriated by congress. that was the concern that administration officials had about withholding it with a violation of law.

it's a standard part of american foreign policy that rpredates te trump administration. it's become increasingly aggressive. you're right about the effort inside the administration. it's not just the acting chief of staff mick mulvaney but officials throughout the omb which is the budge et cetera office of the administration as well as the state department trying to figure out sort of what their story would be, what the explanation for withholding that aid might by and trying to determine what they were legally able to do given the guidance they had been provided from elsewhere in the government. >> it's not the only devastating piece of reporting over the weekend. brand new e-mail shows that mike pompeo. what's the expression being all mopped up. he was rudied up way back in march. the phone lines were burning and they were equitiy e connected b

trump's personal assistant who put rudy on the phone with mike pompeo who happened to sit in on that call where donald trump asked for a favor though. what's the significance of pompeo get sucked not just into the congressional impeach. inquiry but sucked closer to man under criminal investigation by new york? >>ompeo, we reported tlen eed there's tensi between him and president trump in their impeachment inquiry and the president frustrated with him for hiring deep staters like bill taylor. we now perhaps have a window into why mike pompeo has -- one of the reasons why he's managed to stay in the president's good graces so long because he was willing to do things that wasn't protesting the way say, for instance, john bolton was about

what rudy giuliani was doing. that's one thing. another is mike pompeo has political ambitions. it's an open secret, everybody knows it. he may run for senate in kansas. he seems himself as a presidential candidate. manag something like this could really damage him politically. one of the things we're looking for is how he navigates this. he's on an island right now. he doesn't have full backing that he has with the president. there's not that relationship there in the same way it was a few months ago and he's lost the building over at the state department where he doesn't have the support of the people who work there. how he moves forward as more and more continues to come out is going to be very interesting thing to watch. >> that's an interesting point. the question is never whether the men and women who go to work for donald trump will be embroiled in criminality and

certain scandal, it's now they navr ga navigate it. if don mcgahn is the model, he spent 30 hours with robert mueller, cooperated with that i investigation and is reluctant enough to cooperate with congress. that he's able to keep some of his membership guarcards to gop. mike pompeo seems to be failing all the standards that mcgahn met. he's failing the leadership test. i think the op-ed calling him a westpoint graduate leaving soldiers on the battlefield was devastating. if you want to run for dogcatcher, you can't be that guy. you can't be so weak you leave your soldiers on the battlefield. >> it's the cancers of donald trump. how everything he touches. i wish we could fast forward five years and in addition to the president's men, the maul va

kn -- mulvaney, the michael cohen's the devin nunes, everybody he touches will frown upon. the bigamist ri wi mystery with these men, women, mostly men, what do they not get? i don't understand the human behavior, the soulless behavior, the wimp behavior of just being so submissive. i don't know what the spell trump has over them. obvious lip we talk lot about a cult leader but whether it is these baa foo baffoons we saw aw rudy giuliani morphed from a politician to a joke. what is it about this man? it's got to be one of the great psychological studies that forces men to find their lowest, lowest core. >> i don't know how respected giuliani was. >> that's a good point. >> what's interesting to me and i'll stay with this giuliani

piece for a second. if you've worked in executive government, there's always individual who is will sort of extra governmental. there are always folks who exist outside of governmental responsibility. that do things on behalf of that executive. i've never seen, to your point earlier, someone who is effective so pervasive throughout government they are engaging so many different facets to the point where you have a president saying he's going to withhold congressionally approved funding to serve his own political needs. if that were a democrat, if that were barack obama impeachment wouldn't have to go through hearing. we would have been pushed out a long time ago. the fact we are here is so disturbing. i have people on the street, voters who don't believe that donald trump will be convicted in the senate but are now asking for giuliani's arrest and imprisonment. >> can i can you a question.

you've been around power closer to anybody. if you were going to break it down and give a why. why people follow this guy so blindly when it's so obvious to us in the movie theater watching. you worked for a president, you've been around power your whole life. what's the difference? >> my observation, pompeo fascinates me. he's not without ambition or a brain and he's willing to burn them all down. he's willing to burn down the three pillars of his future. conservativ conservative. he's willing to burn down strength because he looks like a wuss not defending marie yovanovitch. he submitted to rudy giuliani. don mcgahn looked in the mirror and this line he wouldn't cross was firing mueller. i maybe have read it too many

times but if you read that second volume of obstruction it's about the lines that don mcgahn wouldn't cross. the fact these guys didn't either read it or learn any of the lessons. the line that michael cohen would do, i won't go to jail for donald trump. there's three guys going to jail. roger stone, michael cohen and paul manafort. he's been there long enough that if you do his bidding, you will end up in jail and i can't believe mike pompeo can't land himself on that right side of that line. >> it's power and corruption. ultimately the question is how much are you willing to corrupt yourself to have access to power. right now donald trump is powerful not just because of who he is but the base he commands inside the republican party. he's been playing the music for last three years that every one in the republican party dances too. i think the gamble all these individuals are making is the music isn't going to stop.

it's not going to stop until they manage to get their next office. the problem is all of them have with this scandal and every other. i think about the watergate father or moth formulation, it's different for these guys. with pompeo and pence, what's what did they know? when did they know and what did they do about it? they knew everything. they knew everything about this ukraine scandal. they knew it from the beginning and they did nothing. if they did anything at all it was to help the president. the question with all of them is is music ever going stop and will they ever pay a price? >> i want to make the term to you with phil rutgers because i saw your tweet on this last niepg night. the back story, this is an investigation into mulvaney's conduct by the guy who probably sits to his right or left at the white house senior staff meeting. the white house counsel. this is against the backdrop of this white house investigating

itself and throwing another guy, i guess he's already under the bus but maybe backing up over him. >> i'm a little curious at the white house counsel at his decision to open this investigation in the first place. usually it's because you want to turn yourself in and turn in the best set of facts to the authorities. this white house is never going to do that. it's not like they will produce the results. here is what we did and we made these mistakes. i don't think they found any evidence. >> because it would have leaked. >> that's exactly. you would have seen it. it's been reported that the white house counsel wants to be the white house chief of staff. here he start this is investigation that magically finds faults by the white house chief of staff. looks like the white house continues to be a den of vipers where you have the white house

counsel leaking about the white house chief of staff and you see this quote from omb saying it was approved by the lawyers at ef step every step of the way. it seems like nasty place to work. >> just to get in the weeds, but the white house counsel is investigating one of his deputies. mr. eisenberg who is the white house counsel lawyer assigned to this pig pen of a mess is being revud. it was his decision to store the notes on a top secret server that one of the witnesses said was a mistake. that is also under scrutiny. what do you know about the white house counsel's investigation into his deputy and the acting chief of staff? >> reporter: well, sunday's around here it feels like everybody is investigatining everybody else. >> and leaking about it. >> reporter: the investigation into there deputy white house counsel is significant because

that stems to the decision that was made to put the notes, the transcript of the call between president trump and president zelensky into that secret server that's only supposed to be used for more highly classified and sensitive conversations. that was a decision that based on the reporting, at least, was made in the counsel's office and by that particular lawyer and so that seems to be the investigation there. the broader investigation between or into mick mulvaney's communications that we have been talking about this afternoon is clearly an effort by the white house to get its hands around what exactly went on here and to really understand all of the facts they are having to deal with. i think matt made an important point that shouldn't be over looked and there's been tension at the white house for months between the acting white house chief of staff mulvaney and the

white house counsel. they have a rather fraught relationship. that's not new. it's been exacerbated by the impeachment inquiry that's ratcheted up the pressure and created a great deal of conflict between them. >> we're talking about pompeo not defending any of his folks. it's interesting that we heard is the white house counsel will investigate his deputy. any visibility into how that office is holding up? >> reporter: it's a lot of strain at the moment. i don't know the exact status of that relationship. i don't think that investigation is over with, by the way or if it is we don't know what the outcome is. >> it's never boring and we're always greatful when you spend time with us. >> after the break, new reporting that suggests the president's top defender in congress was caught red handed trying to meddle in the 2020

election. imagine that. the source, rudy's former side kick. it gets weirder. we're bring you that stunning new account. the president takes a wrecking ball to one of the institutions that seemed to be holding up better than most. the united states military. we'll go behind the abrupt resignation of the secretary of the navy. mike bloomberg goes big diving into the 2020 presidential campaign with a big ad buy in one of our favorite friends and reporters joining that effort. all those stories, coming up. all those stories, coming up

donald trump is perfected the art of political projection

but it seems his mini me devin nunes isn't far behind. an attorney representing lev parnas, he's been indietsed for campaign finance crimes, he claims that nunes met with officials about the bidens. nunes seemed to deny by attacking the media are only one of the picture of what exactly fiona hill warned americans about. another one of if the's top defenders senator kennedy said he did not know. he had no idea who attacked the 2016 elections even though the entire intelligence community says it was russia. >> who dou you believe was responsible for hacking the dnc and clinton campaign commuters, e-mails? was it russia or ukraine?

>> i don't know nor do you nor do any of us. miss hill -- >> let me just interrupt to say the entire intelligence community says it was russia. >> right. it could also be ukraine. i'm not saying that i know one way or the other. i'm saying that miss hill is entitled to her opinion but no rebuttal evidence was allowed to be offered. >> cause it's not an opinion. it's a cold hard fact but that right there was exactly is as vladimir vladmir putin wanted it. it's just an unbelievable spectacle. i know what putin has sent them in their gift baskets for the holidays but he is getting such a return on the investment he made in 2016 from the gop. it's unbelievable. >> yeah. that was a really stark, striking comment by the senator

particularly because you know this better than anybody, the republican party traditionally is very tough on russia. this is an issue that a number of people in the senate and elsewhere have really pushed hard on over the years and to just see that sort of crumble is really startling and just generally the way that you have a sitting u.s. senator out there and we've already seen the president do this early on just disagreeing with every intelligence agency in the u.s. government. that in and of itself is something that prior to president trump we really didn't see from republicans and the long term consequences of that i think are something that we don't yet know what they are going to be. certainly, when you undercut that u.s. intelligence community and embolden vladimir putin who

is no friend of the united states, that's something you talk to any foreign policy exexpee expert and they will tell you it's a dangerous path to be going down. >> it also explains why people like andy mccabe saw enough suspicious behavior on the part of this president and thought let's look into this. this is weird. to see it mimicked now. kennedy and nunes are going beyond defending the indefensible, they are copying the indefensible conduct. >> there was a time, the previous two years, we thought this kind of nuttery in the party was confined to the president and people like devin nunes. as the rest of the republican part has felt forced to defend him, they have picked up his worst talking points. that came two days after reporting that russia was behind this. it's russia that wanted us to

believe it was ukraine. the remarkable thing is it's not just the intelligence community's conclusion, there's a public indictment. bob mueller indicted the russians responsible. anyone can read this. >> richard burr celebrated the indictment fp whe indictment. >> where are all the other republicans that are in the same conference that won't say anything. >> two stories have broken. things are getting bad for rudy giuliani. we started this block by talking about information shared by lev parnas. he flipped and is offering himself up to cooperate with the impeachment probe. that's out there but this is the breaking news from the wall street journal last hour. subpoenas issued to people with ties to president trump's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani,

and his associates indicate a broad federal investigation into possible money laundering, obstruction of justice and campaign finance violations and suggest that prosecutors are looking closely at the work of mr. giuliani himself. you've been saying rico for months. is this starting to look like an investigation to something bigger that's moving up and up. >> i've said all along this will always be about sdny. our great attorney general came in. there's new ones that have surfaced. i'm like a broken record. it will be about money laundering. this is what the trump organization has done for 20, 30 years. it will be fascinating because rudy is going down. he's going down every which way. does he eventually flip on the president. wouldn't that be the great irony of all this if that's where this

ends? the fact that rudy giuliani is tied up in things he's tied up in and he was the mayor of this great city and led us through 9/11 is the most stunning downfall of any public official i've seen. when you go back and look at the cover of time magazine and where he's ended up now as a cheap thug or a guy carrying out a drug deal. i've never seen somebody fall so far from grace as that man. >>. >> the washington post writes it like this. the federal investigation into two associates of rudy giuliani is exploring crimes including wire fraud and failure to register as a foreign agent. this seems to be the thing that is michael cohen on steroids because this isn't just donald trump's efforts to cover up sex with porn stars which is gross and the checks are written from

the oval. it had a cringe factor. this is the kinds of crimes that if conducted in office or if the president knew about them in office, could sort of reshuffle the deck in terms of what did he know, when did he know it on the president's point. rudy giuliani has been to hold up his devices and say look who i was reporting to. i was reporting to the state department and there as the president's lawyer. that's been his defense as recent as a couple of weeks ago when he was serious and then joking and then serious again about an insurance policy. >> what they are investigating is really serious stuff. it's not, like you said, it's not the michael cohen charges were serious but they weren't like this. the fact this is widening really raises the question of you already have these two associates of rudy giuliani, one of them who is ready to talk. he's waving the flag. anyone who wants to listen he's ready to say what he knows and

that's just based on a very narrow charge, campaign finance and other things. if it's widening, it suggests that creates more pressure on people who worked with rudy giuliani to potentially cooperate and as you said that kind of pressure will widen and what happens when it comes down on giuliani. does he decide to do what michael cohen did or not. you heard today the president say that he praised rudy giuliani. you haven't seen any daylight there yet. we've seen this before. that's not to say it wouldn't happen. >> i wish any of these people can go up and spend an hour with michael cohen in jail and see what it feels like up there. he's not in hard prison but the depressing nature and knowing that you're there on behalf of the service of somebody else makes it that much worse. he literally doesn't know what to do with himself. what am i doing here? i cannot believe i followed this man. i wish every one of these goof

balls could sit with him for an hour. >> rudy, i'll pay for your uber. after the break the secretary of the navy resigns and offers a squa scathing rebuke of donald trump and says he was given an offer he could not obey. e was given ar he could not obey.

many former government officials believe that what donald trump has done to some of the most important agencies in the federal government will take years to undo. justice department, state department, homeland security department. all of them seemingly in some way affected by donald trump's self-dealing and disdain for the vital functions of government and now regrettably we have to consider adding the defense department to the list. navy secretary richard spencer was fired by defense secretary mark esper this weekend. it's fall out from a tug of war between the department and the white house over the fate of

disgraced navy seal eddie gallagh gallagher. testifi he was accused of committing war crimes. he was later acquitted of murder but convicted of posing with the corpse of an isis prisoner. a military jury of combat veterans recommended a demotion. the judge agreed and so did the navy's top admiral. donald trump didn't agree. he reversed that decision before insisting that gallagher retain the gold trident signifying his status of the seals. richard spencer took exception to that insisting friday that the review process should go forward. over the weekend spencer went around the chain of command by trying to broker a deal with trump directly and that's what got himfired. in his letter he said it's become apparent in this respect i no longer share the understanding with the commander of chief who appointed me. in regarding to the key principle of good order and

discipline. i cannot obey an order that i believe violates the sacred oath i took. we highlight trump's over reach with spencer's firing trump has recklessly crossed a line he had generally observed before that exempted the military from his belligerent government by tweet interference but the gallagher case illustrates how he's ready to over ride traditional limits to aid political allies, law enforcement and now military matters. what is the potential fall out

from the president really taking his cues from some guy on fox news about this case? >> i think it's several people on fox news and then some of his add vi advisers as well. one of the ways you can see how seriously pentagon leadership took his tweet last thursday when he said he would intervene this this eddie gallagher proce process. this was a peer review process. they look at whether the crime he was accused and charged with, convicted of, whether that's enough to warrant taking away his status as a navy seal. keeping him in the navy. nothing else would change but he would lose that pen and status as a seal. when secretary spencer heard that president trump wanted to intervene he called the white house and said a tweet is not a written order. we need a written order if you want me to do this. if you do that, i'm probably going to resign. when other members of the senior

leaders here found this out, they immediately tried to intervene to try to convince president trump not to get in the middle of this eddie gallagher review. there was a meeting on air force one on thursday night. there was another one at the white house on friday. by friday night every one thought that president trump had pretty much decided he wasn't going to get involved. over the weekend that's where every one's head was. we get this stunning news that secretary spencer was fired. we spoke with secretary esper today and he said that he lost confidence in spencer because he was trying to create this back channel deal where gallagher's review could go forward but he wouldn't have his pen taken. he would be able to retire as a seal. the part that's so confusing and perplexing is secretary spencer felt strongly enough about letting this review process go forward untouched from the commander in chief that he was willing to he sign over it but now secretary esper is saying

that he was brokering this deal for the very outcome that he was willing to resign over. >> can you just explain to people not as familiar as you are with the military why it's so egregious that a group of peers and the system would have recommended losing that pen for the crime of posing with the dead body of an isis prisoner. >> the review board never went forward. it was due to meet in a week or two. it was just cancelled. at the end of the day president trump did still, over the weekend, tell the secretary of defense to cancel the review process. eddie gallagher will retire as a seal and he's not going through the review process at all. president trump still got what he tweeted about on thursday. by intervening the concern is this will impact good order and discipline. the concern is they are going to undermine these actions,

continue to upsindermine the overall military process. president trump has intervened in three specific cases. they will also get involved in these administrative reviews. if this is the new limit, where does it go from here? will other people who commit crimes go on fox news or make appeals to the white house to have their crimes forgiven. in the case of the green beret o accused of murder in afghanistan, the president threw out his case before he went to trial. we don't even know if he would have been convicted of murder. in the case of clint lawrence, he commuted his sentence and the case that has been getting so much attention because of the secretary spencer angle. president trump had already intervened several times in this case. he got him out of jail mounths ago. when the jury recommended he be bumped down in rank, the president reinstated his rank.

the one thing that's unclear is why didn't the president just pardon eddie gallagher of this charge? that's one thing no one has been able to answer. >> it's not a big fox news story at this point a week after impeachment. this is right in trump's wheel house of a media story. it's to the base and he's standing next to warrior. as you were saying off camera trump said you should kill families of isis members. this is his macho, barbarian, i'm in charge moment. >> the idea there's no one at the pentagon that can stand up how destabilizing this could be on the battlefield. >> we're still a country at war. this wasn't a pardon process. these were segments on fox news. >> yeah. this is simultaneously one of the most depressing but unsurprising episodes of the trump presidency. the signal this sends to other

soldier who is are authorized to use legal force, the signal it sends is if a soldier commits a crime and they get on fox news or can hire one of the president's attorneys as gallagher did, there may be no consequences for their behavior is extraordinarily troubling. to the people at the pentagon, the question to me is why did only one person resign. why is it only the navy secretary and what it tells me is the wrougrot we have seen se at the justice department and the state department that it's extended to the pentagon. when the president pressures and pressures and pressures an agency so long, the political heads of that agency give in. >> you talked about something that's destabilizdestabilizing, webt went on fox news he was still on active duty. for him to be on fox news defending himself and calling out his issue pesuperiors that e

demoralizing for the entire community. >> thank you so much to the both of you. when we come back, one of our good friends is joining mike bloomberg's big budget campaign for president. n for president. you may have gingivitis. and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly... tooth loss. help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. leave bleeding gums behind. parodontax. make family-sized meals fast, and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. the ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. still fresh... ♪ unstopables in-wash scent booster ♪ downy unstopables

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there's big 2020 news. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg is officially running for president. he's obviously a late entry into the race. he's got some ground to make up. he's polling at just 1% in the most recent economist survey. no one selected him as the first choice but he's just getting started. two other polls have him around 3%. everybody starts there. joining us is newly minted senior adviser to the bloomberg campaign. he's also worked for mayor giuliani -- bloomberg.

we're both new yorkers. we've been his constituents. why you on this kpacampaign? >> i think mike bloomberg is the best to take on -- >> no talking points. >> it's not a talking point. >> is it trump or bloomberg? how did they get you? >> they got me because donald trump is a threat to the well being of the country and i think mike bloomberg is the most suited to take him on. he's 100 times of know how, proven leadership that we'll unleash on donald trump and that group of malicious and sort of reckless amateurs he dragged into the white house with him. compare these guys face-to-face. mike bloomberg versus donald trump. honesty and transparency versus corruption and coffver ups. common sense versus nonsense.

>> i think it's he's the ultimate anti-trump. 50 billion to a billion. if i was launching a diaper and had one million to spend and procter & gamble had 50 million, i lost. you're looking at the numbers now. the same reason that donald trump when he was at zero or 1% but he got the media exposure then they went to 2 or 3%. it's a self-fulfilling prophesy of media economy. that will happen. there's a level where you can buy it. that's going to work against him because the other candidates will say it. the combination to your point, you laid out the attributes, the counter attributes, the all the m -- ultimate anti-trump. he could take 10 billion. >> let me ask you what it says about mike bloomberg's view

about the rest of the field that he didn't think it was adequate to do. i believe he's in here to defeat donald trump. i believe that's why you're in it too but did you both make the assessment there wasn't someone on that debate stage that could do that. >> i think mike admires everybody else that's come in. e everybody else that's come in. but he thinks he is the best position to take on trump. i think if you set up a whole bunch of check boxes of what has to happen for donald trump to leave the white house, that doesn't line up as many of the candidates as it does for mike. >> we're going to push harder on that question on the other side of our break don't go anywhere.

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(employee) because you never know what might be behind you. (kristen bell) does the sloth come standard? (kristen bell vo) looking to buy? enterprise makes it easy. we are back. we're grilling our friend tim o'brien because nobody, nobody on this planet, knows the file of dirt on donald trump. the case against donald trump better than you do. and i see that as a real benefit to mike bloomberg to have you there. but i think -- i think matt has some questions about how you deal with the rest of the democrats. >> look. i think mike bloomberg could beat donald trump but i'm skeptical that a 77-year-old billionaire from new york. >> jewish. >> self-made man. >> who made his money on wall street. whose policing practices were found to discriminate against african-americans by a federal judge and who spoke at the 2004 republican national convention to endorse george bush. i'm skeptical that's the candidate democratic voters are going to embrace to take on donald trump. >> i think if democratic voters hold him to one issue, to

stop-and-frisk, and then see his record as solely defined by that. he reduced incarceration rates while he was mayor while the crime rate went down. no other city in the united states that stats measure up like that. once people get to know that story and look at his record, i think they'll change their minds. >> i do think there's a role for a big city mayor on a debate stage like that. he probably has more of a path than, say, bill de blasio did. but, look, i wouldn't be a strategist if i couldn't at least try to determine a path for him. and i do think there is one. narrow but it is. if you just forego the first four states, like he's sort of indicated he'd do. focus on super-tuesday where you have states with big metropolitan areas. he can talk about things like gun control, climate change, all those things that he's put his money into already. but to your point, he gets -- he gets held up on that stop-and-frisk because a lot of this conversation around gun control will be by the record on

stop-and-frisk. it's not impossible to get over. >> you use one word that is to me the compelling word competency. whatever you have to say about this man, this is a competent, can-do, problem-solve guy. and that is the complete opposite. >> and voters want an adult with his hands on the wheels. not donald trump jumping out the window. >> what's sort of -- i mean, you know, donald trump is a master at the bumper stick -- what are some of the quick questions you guys are heading out? what are some of the first introductory messages? >> well, that donald trump is a lifelong grifter and a con man who sold a bill of goods to bankers, investors, and his workers in the '80s and '90s. and has now told voters across the country that he was going to give them economic stability. >> what's the bumper sticker for mike? not against trump. what's the i like mike bumper sticker? >> mike bloomberg is a problem solver and a doer. >> we'll let that be the last word.

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we always run out of time. we're out of time now but i have time to thank matt miller, tim o'brien, most of all, thank you for watching. that does it for this hour. "mtp daily" with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck starts now. welcome to monday. it's "meet the press daily." good evening. i'm katy tur in new york in for chuck todd. right now, we are waiting for a federal judge to rule whether president trump's former white house counsel don mcgahn will have to testify in the house impeachment investigation. that ruling could have implications for other white house officials who are resisting testifying in the impeachment inquiry. but we begin tonight with breaking news. new reporting from moments ago in