rival. >> yet, it was all about reaching people. the way they wanted to reach people turned out to proceed up in their face. it was a failure. and the investigation, well, that now is reaching millions of people. what they think about it. what they do about it. well, that's up as always to the american public. thanks for joining us on quite a busy news night. i'll be back 6:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow. requested hardball" starts now. ♪ the dam is breaking. let's play "hardball. reque ." . reque ." good evening, i'm chris mathews in washington. there's break news tonight that could have huge implications for the trump white house and the ukrainian investigation. a federal judge has ruled in the last hour the executive branch officials are fought absolutely immune from compulsory congressional process. even if the president expressly

directs such official's non-compliance. this ruling that dealt with white house counsel don mcdawn could mean other administration officials could be forced to honor suspense and testify before congress. this is a big deal. the justice department said it would appeal. the impeachment train is moving on schedule. house committee chair adam schiff reported his committee has completed its work and has found everyday pointing toward presidential abuse of power and obstruction of justice. in a letter to colleagues, the committees are now preparing a report summarizing the evidence we have found this far, which will be transmitted to the judiciary committee soon after congress returns from the thanksgiving recess. that's next week. meanwhile, the president's personal lawyer who spearheaded the agenda in ukraine is speaking about about his role in the unfolding scandal. in an interview saturday, rudy guiliani denied the possibility he would be made the fall guy for this president and in doing

so, he made what appeared to be a threat. guiliani said, he's got insurance, that's his word, that will protect him if trump decides to throw him under the bus. >> have you talked to president trump in the last week or two? have you met with him? are you still he is counsel? >> i do not discuss my conversations with my client. you can assume that i talk to him early and often. yeah. and have a very, very good relationship with him and all of these comments which are totally insulting. >> yeah. >> i seen things written like he's going to throw me under the bus. >> right. >> when they say that, i say, he isn't, but i have insurance. >> but i have insurance. hours later, however, guiliani tried to deny the clear implication of what he said. in a tweet, he said he was being sar cast iging, adding that his insurance policy refers to get this one, files in my case about the biden family. i don't think so. guiliani has good reason to fear he could be made a scapegoat in

the unfolding scandal. witnesses over the past two weeks have described guiliani's meddling as explosive, alarming and problematic. abc news is reporting guiliani's indicted business associate lev parnas has provided the house intelligence committee with quote audio, video and photos that include guiliani and trump. yet it appears the president still has guiliani's back at least for now. here's trump today. >> what do you make of refugee saying he has insurance? >> oh, i don't know, rudy is a great guy. rudy is the best mayor in new york, in my opinion, the strongest mayor, rudy is a great crime fighter, corruption fighter, probably the best in 50 years. i think maybe the press isn't treating rudy very well. i think that's unfair. >> i am joined by a white house reporter and robert costa national political reporter for "the washington post" and guiliani's fans and former us

attorney. this question, this judge ruling that mcgahn has to testify, could this reverberate through this very high ukraine question, this impeachment question for the president? >> it could. it's a really stung opinion on this level. it rejects the theory that this administration has put out there that its witnesses are absolutely immune from testimony. the judge still leaves opened the possibility that witnesses might show up, which she has said that they have to do. and still have some privilege to exert. but, chris, you can imagine how powerful it would be to have witnesses testifying if congress, sitting down at the table and over and over again as they're asked questions refusing to testify on the basis of executive privilege or because of their fifth amendment rights. this is what republicans have been trying to avoid all along. the judge has put it back on the table. there is still an appellate process in the works. it could be expedited.

but this notion we could have these witnesses faced with the choice of responding ore over and over taking a privilege to avoid answering. i think it could be very compelling testimony. >> let's get to it. we're getting towards thanksgiving, we're looking towards the christmas holidays coming up in a few weeks. we have an impeachment process moving to the house judiciary process next week. they're about to mark up i think in the next couple of weeks, articles of impeachment. so put all of this simultaneous equation together, could we have further rulings by judges at the high level that would require or whatever the word is, permit, for example, john bolton to show up and testify what he was doing with ukraine, in time to make a difference in these proceedings for impeachment and possible -- well, certainly going to be a trial in the senate at this point. >> i think that that is entirely possible. if the court uses the expedited appeal process, it could rule

relatively quickly. this ruling is rock solid as a legal basis. it seems very unlikely that the supreme court would have any rational reason for hearing this sort of case on appeal. so, yes, if the sun and the moon line up, it's possible we could have witnesses being compelled, more likelying this is a little lengthier of a process that lingers into the new year, though. >> let me talk about the white house does a big story tonight with robert here. robert, guiliani and the president, are they lock solid. >> they are. they remain very close friends. though the president is relying on his white house counsel for legal guidance than rudy guiliani. >> what about all the other entanglements that guiliani is involved with? i think he's living off the land over there. if he go es to ukraine, he hooks one these people. they pay him a lot of money. does that pay for his transport around these hotels and where he's going? who is paying for guiliani's dig for dirt? >> it's a huge target for every reporter in town to figure out what exactly guiliani has been

doing in terms of his foreign entanglements. when we ask people at the white house is he prepared to let guiliani sail away, close ties. he will stick with him, he's his confidante and is willing to go on constantly on tv amid impeachment. >> whose idea was it to hold up the money to fet the dirt on wide season. >> "the washington post" looked into this and found nick mulvaney have been involved in e-mail exchanges whether they can hold up the aid. >>s who idea was it to get the dirt? >> it's been clear on testimony that it's president trump's decision. >> but who, was it guiliani came up with the idea? who came up with the idea to squeeze, let's shake them down? >> well, there has been an ongoing effort in month, from guiliani in particular, the president was listening, he had nick mulvaney the acting chief of staff follow through. >> i think hadman got nixon in trouble.

saying the cia's got the case. that was all on hadman, he took it. nixon did it. is guiliani the perpetrator here or the agent? >> we looked at a lot of people in the white house who said repeatedly, we need to get guiliani out of his ear on this. she feeding him conspiracy theories, ukraine of one, that guiliani talks to the president about and then the president gets these ideas and chooses to act on them. i don't think we know at this point the full story of exactly how it came to be. >> a bombshell report, reuters knew reveals how federal investigators are also scrutinizing mr. guiliani, himself. according to a grand jury subpoena, quote, federal prosecutors in new york are seeking payments that rudy guiliani is a part of an active criminal investigation. while the subpoena does not indicate he is suspected of wrong-doing. it show, quote, the crimes being investigated include money laundering, wire fraud, campaign finance violation, making false statements, obstruction of justice and violations of the

foreign agency registrationing a. fa -- registrations act. fara. how much grime is this guy picking up along the way in his partial service of the president. i think guiliani has his own fish to fry over there in terms of making money? >> guiliani really looks like the new michael cohen and i think the question that you ask jill is actually one of the central issues here. was guiliani acting throughout all of this time at the president's direction or was he sort of michael cohen-style close to the president and selling access and selling influence and is that where a lot of these potential charges, which we don't know for certain that they reached guiliani, but when you are looking at wire fraud and money laundering and sending out subpoenas to all of these associated companies and individuals, it begins to look like guiliani is more of a target than a suspect. so this really doesn't bode well for guiliani. ultimate question, if he is

caught, if he is indicted, will he flip on the president? >> what do you make of his claim he has insurance against trump? >> it was such an odd claim. of course, it's illegal for an attorney to engage in that sort of a practice, vis-a-vis a client and this really change shift where initially he's clearly talking about the president and somehow on twitter it becomes that he's got four decades worth of information on bind, really doesn't make any sense. it looks more like he's grasping at straws than anything else. >> robert, you said there they're still close. you don't threaten somebody you are close to in public. he just did. guiliani did. >> they're not close in the sense that they're watching a ball game together. they both like sports. these are two people who live in entirely public lives and are political lly aligned. they think they are politically

ape lined. it's -- aligned. they are two people who think they are in constant fight with their enemys. >> there is so much popping. atestimony schiff who is doing superlative job of driving this train. it's moving. it will be out of his committee by the end of the week. he thinks he has abuse of power. schiff cites significant evidence. he's moving. significant evidence showing the extent of the president's abuse of power. he addresses trump's stonewalling saying such obstruction was the third article of impeachment against president nixon. he add, we will be forced to infer from this obstruction that the testimony of these witnesses would tend to incriminate the president further since he would have encouraged rather than block the testimony of senior officials if he believed it would somehow be helpful to him. clearly, that legal for a prosecutor to say, because i always think you couldn't say fifth amendment communist back

in the '50s when joe mccarthy was saying those types of stuff. they'd call you a fifth amendment commune it. can you tell someone that stonewalls basically a part of an impeachment crime? >> so the setting is a little bit different because this is not a criminal case. it's impeachment proceedings and the fifth amendment applies only to the defendant in a criminal case. their inference that schiff is drawing. these witnesses, that these are the first-hand witnesses we heard the president complaining for so long the democrats weren't bringing to testify. lo and behold the reason we didn't hear from the first-hand witnesses is because the president wouldn't let them testify. so now schiff has the president in a little bit of a box, either those witnesses come in and testify and presumably they are not helpful to the president or we would have already heard from them or schiff can draw the

inference saying the reason that they're not testifying is because they have nothing good to say about the president. you know, this is one area where congress has actually managed to outrun trump. the intelligence committee is actually running more quickly than trump can spin new conspiracy theories. >> jill first then robert. we have to finish up with this. the democrats have been more effective and efficient than anybody thought. in two weeks they put together a very well constructed argument the president was leading an effort to basically abuse his power to get political dirt by using the threat or a shakedown of foreign aid and the fact that he since also has been obstructing justice by refusing anybody to participate in these hearings. it's going to be in the judiciary committee's hand next week, probably tuesday. and in a matter of a couple of weeks, we expect they will write up articles, one to two, maybe three. they'll go to the house. pass. this will go to a trial of the united states senate with john

roberts, the chief justice, perhaps requiring more witnesses like john bolton, they come in there, they're not going to be helpful to the president. is the president handling this well the fact that this thing is moving and moving and moveing? >> well, clearly, they have been very slow to respond to this. it was only last week where the president sat down, or the president's top aide sat down with a group of republicans to hash out what their strategy might want to be for the senate hearings. deciding whether they want this to drag out into the beginning of the primaries, keeping senate candidates away from the campaign trail, maybe a two-week hearing, make it go quickly. clearly the democrats learned from the mueller hearings, it was month after month of drip, drip, drip. it wound up confusing the public. here they spent two weeks delivering their argument. it will go quickly. now it will be in the senate's hand to respond. >> what does the white house want? a short trial? >> at this point in my reporting, i don't know what you have been hearing, they haven't decided yet. it will be the president's decision. he hasn't made that call yet. >> i'm wondering if he's

prepared for a effective democratic opposition he's facing. >> he knows some of these witnesses may be call. the answer and the action, jim and i are going to florida to cover president trump in sunrise, florida near miami for an arena real, grievance politics, going to florida, a state with elderly population, older voters, it was a struggle for democrats to win the gubernatorial and senate race, he's going to his base. he's saying to the republicans, look at these crowds, look at how they're responding to me, stay with me in the senate trial. >> he's going to a no tax state, where people go if they don't to pay taxes, they are added to elizabeth warren is not good. they're going to get away from taxes, right? >> just like trump. >> just like trump. he moved his address down there. he looks like, well, he doesn't look like his people. he does -- in certain way, thank you, thank you very much joyce for the whole effort of letting

us understand the implication of the new court ruling that could bring all these witnesses to the stand. coming up, with friends like lindsey graham, who needs enemies? what happened to friendship? graham and joe biden used to be close buddies. >> he's a decent man but we're not going to live in a world where just donald trump and his family gets looked at, we're going to look in a world where everybody gets looked at if there is a question reasonably to be asked. >> well, they used to be buds. used to be, now in the era of trump, he is calling for his friend joe biden to be investigated by the u.s. senate. plus trump's strong man tactics defending military criminals, and firing the navy secretary who knows more about honor, ordering more than trump ever will. this guy is going to act more like a strong man than a president. we got much more to get to. stay with us. us >> or make me feel like i'm not really "there."

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. if you can't admire joe biden as a person, then probably you got a problem. you need to do some self evaluation, because what's not to like? he's the nicest person i think i've ever met in politics. >> is that right? >> he is as good a man as god ever created. >> as good a man as god ever created. that's a nice commune from lindsey graham. that was lindsey graham with his friendship with then vice president joe biden, not a million years ago, in 2015. that was then. now he is standing by president trump instead of his old friend calling for the senate, the u.s. senate, to investigate the former vp and his son hunter's work with the ukrainian energy company. well, last week, graham requested documents from the state department regarding joe biden's communications with ukraine officials. the "washington post" suggests he is seeking to legitimize trump's accusations that biden,

then vice president, put pressure on ukraine to fire its lead prosecutor to protect his son, hunter, a claim without every day, closed quote. three weeks ago, jaim graham said he wouldn't turn the senate into a circus by investigating the bidens. in an interview on friday, biden said he was embarrassed for graham over his new change of heart. >> i am disappointed and, quite frankly, i'm angered by the fact he knows me. he knows my son. he knows there is nothing to this. trump is now essentially holding power over him that even the ukrainians wouldn't yield to. ukrainians would not yield to quote investigate biden when there is nothing to investigate about biden or his son and lindsay is about to go down in a way that i think he's going to regret his whole life. >> well, today, senator graham waved off 18 contradiction between his prior comments about biden and his now push to

investigate him. >> my conscience is clear. i love joe biden as a person, he is a really decent man. he's had a lot of tragedy in his life, but i have a conscience, very clear right now and i have a duty if the house is going to shut it down, the senate is going to pick it up. i didn't start this. >> ladies and gentlemen, michael steele and john survivor former cia senior officer. michael, here's the story. friendship doesn't mean nothing now? >> not anymore. not when the friendship has been supplanted by a relationship with donald trump. because i hope the senator knows, he doesn't have a friendship with donald trump. he has a relationship. it's a transactional engagement which trump gets the master benefit and you know he gets to say i can play golf. at the end of the day, that's what it is, what was the relationship with joe biden that had you sitting in the back of the karsaying he's the finest man you've ever known?

>> i have been following politics a long time. one of the things i've discovered is arguments rarely change people's mind what you do is you change the topic. if you get a good topic, you can't loads, if you are a republican you talk about taxes all the time. if you are a democrat, you talk about healthcare, you're financial to win. eventually democrats trust people on healthcare and republicans on taxes generally. so they will talk about hunter biden. and the very fact they're talking about hunter biden helps trump. >> it helps trump and it also helps the russians. what's unfortunate about this ukraine narrative is it's the kremlin's narrative and we saw in the "new york times" recently, that the senators were briefed specifically by the intelligence agencies that this narrative is a kremlin disinformation narrative that putin and his intelligence services have been pushing. so the fact that they're continuing to go down this road. >> what is their argument? what is their push? what do they want us to believe, the russians? >> they want us to believe that the ukrainians were involved in

our election and they were meddling in the united states. >> what about the joe biden, hunter biden connection? >> i don't know the hunter biden piece was a russian narrative, disinformation narrative. nonetheless, they know it's creating friction in the united states. as these wounds open up it's a place the russians can go again and again and again. what is sad about this is these senators and congressmen know better. >> anything that makes us divided makes the russians happy. senator graham is far from the only republican, however, carrying water for the president. on sunday. these guys are unbelievable. i respect these guys, louisiana john kennedy pushed the debunken conspiracy ukraine meddled, a russian push, a russian come ro mat, fiona hill's warning it's a fictional narrative pushed by the russians. here she is. >> senator kennedy who do you believe was responsible for hacking the dnc and clinton campaign computers their

e-mails? was it russia or ukraine? >> i don't know. nor do you. nor do any of us. miss hill -- is entitled to her opinion. >> let me interrupt to say the entire intelligence community says it was russia. >> right. but it could also but crane. i'm not saying that i know one way or the other. i'm saying that miss hill is entitled to her opinion, but no rebuttal evidence was allowed to be offered. >> there is still the fact by your former party in a strange way that if you muddle it up and confuse it enough and conflate it enough, people are somewhat confused about it. let's talk about hunter biden, at the end of benghazi-style hearings, we had weeks of benghazi style hearings with trey gowdy. we haven't heard of trey gowdy again he was out the door because they didn't find anything. did they accomplish anything on

benghazi? i still don't know what hillary rodham clinton was accused of. >> 11 hours of testimony at the end of the day. >> did she finger these guys, go to dinner, together about them? >> but that's really the crux of it. when the senator says that he doesn't know what this is about that he doesn't know whether or not this is you know true that the ukrainians had something to do. he knows that's not the case. they have been briefed to your point. they have been briefed on this, so he's sitting there telling a bold faced lie. let's call it what it is. you do know. >> okay. two or three days of hearings with lindsay frame holding hearings on the bidens. they probably will get nothing more than we know that his son probably shouldn't have taken the job. the father never did anything to help him. the kid never asked the father for help. then we go to nothing world. did they with in? i guess they win because we talked about it. >> i hate to continue to bring it back to the russians here. this is a part of the game,

throwing so much information, so much jumping into the system that nobody seems to be knowing what's true, what they want us to do is throw our hands up and say, well, both sides are lying, therefore, there is no truth. when, in fact there is truth here, this narrative is created and promulgated by people who should know better. >> how do we figure this out? >> defector after defector before and after has come and told us their goal is to undermine us from within. they've created stories during the cold war, the u.s. created the aids crisis. we were selling baby parts in latin america. we were assassinating people. we were ain't semitic. they are pushing hundreds and hundreds of stories. nowadays they can weaponize us, what's unfortunate is it's taking hold, our elected officials are spreading this stuff the russians have spread themselves. >> that's the thing, the political mantle is taken up, this is the soviet style

approach to politics and our own people sitting in elected office are the once like senator kennedy getting up there saying, well, there are good people on both sides. >> well, the russian system is awful. and their politics is awful. do they want us to make us look sort of like them. >> everybody is corrupt. >> bring us down to their level. >> thank you michael steele. still ahead, trump stirs up even more chaos and controversy. this time inserting himself into a military court case and forcing out of his job the secretary of the navy, the secretary of the navy disagreed with him because the secretary of the navy understands the honor of the military. that's next on "hardball." mili. that's next on "hardball." on a scale of one to five? wait... one to five? when it comes to feelings, it's more like five million. there's everything from happy to extremely happy. there's also angry. i'm really angry, clive! actually, really angry.

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. i have to protect my war fighters. i have gotten a lot of people, a lot of war fighters that people in the military have thanked us very much. these are not weak people. these are tough people. and we're there to protect our war fighters. >> our war fighters. welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump this afternoon commenting on his intervention into the military justice system which has resulted in the fighting of rick spencer. mark eesper he had gallagher

acquit of alleged war crimes, including the murder of a teen eej isis captive and firing a sniper at civilians. he was found guilty of a lesser change after posing with a photo of an ice sis captive he had staffed. in a tweet last week, the president stated he would not let the navy take away gallagher's trident pin which represents his status as a navy seal. the "new york times" reports navy secretary richard spencer threatened to resign if strump intervened. secretary esper says he was fired by going behind his back to negotiate a deal to allow him to retire as a seal. in his resignation spencer write, unfortunately, i no longer share the same understanding with the commander-in-chief who appointed me, in regards to the key principles of good order and

discipline. can i not in good conscience obey an order that i believe violates the sacred oath i took to support and defend the constitution and tonight experience told cbs the president's decision is setting the wrong message to the troops. >> that you can get away with things. we have to have good order and discipline. it's the backbone of what we do. >> but that message didn't appear to be bothering the president at all. he has long pushed for a more confronttational military and the president's continued interference in the gallagher case has prompted criticism that he is endangering our standing abroad and putting our people in harm's way. and one of those critics, the former secretary of the navy under president obama joins us next. you are watching "hardball." next you are watching "hardball." any comments doug?

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump's repeated involvement in the case of navy

seal edward gallagher has prompted concerns about how it's affecting our standing around the world. the president's strongman tactics and his defense of gallagher is something you might expect from turkey's president erdogan or president duterte. rather than leaders like french president macron or german chancellor murkel. the president has been clear in his conduct like the kind seen if gag ger's case. >> you see the problem is, you know, we have the geneva convention, all sorts of rules and regulations, our soldiers are afraid to fight. but our military don't forget can't act like a military would act. if they get a little rough, everybody would go crazy. >> with the terrorists, you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. we're the laughing stock all over the world. our military doesn't perform because it's not allowed to perform. >> for more i am joined by ray may vis, he served as secretary

of the navy under president obama and eugene robinson, columnist at the washington post. go at it. what does military justice mean, what does honor mean? what is the president doing here? >> well, everything you see is bad. up can't spin this in a good way. throw accountability out of the window. throw military justice out the window. dishonor of tens of thousands of americans who have served in both these theaters and served well and didn't think it was necessary to break the law or commit war crimes. and then if you can reach down and tell a unit like the seals, i'm going to decide who's in your unit, i'm financial to decide who's got the right to be there. i'm not financial to let your peers decide. i'm not going to let your xanders decide. >> well, in this case the president based honorism. he keeps all his medal, he keeps ranks everything. >> we got to protect our war fighters. >> what is a war fighter by the

way? >> the president has from that montage he has this sort of juvenile comic book 13-year-old vision. >> rambo. >> of what the military is, by the way. >> it's rambo. >> that leiutenant bone spurs never bothered to serve in. but, yeah, it's from you know for b movies. it's not from reality. he doesn't understand the chain of command. he doesn't understand order and discipline and he is the commander-in-chief. so, yes, hes that power to do this. it's such a bad thing for our military, for you know our allies are looking at this. it's am. it's like a 13-year-old. >> i'm sorry, i'm not in the military, growing up, i took pride that our p.o.w. camps were 'best they were. if you were a german, you come to kentucky or somewhere, you'd have a better life than in a soviet pleas you didn't survive.

we did treat prisoners well comparatively. we were the good guys. we did observe the geneva conventions. >> and that set us apart. the fact that we did obey the law. we did try to do these things in the right way, fought just to win but win in the right by a and again that's throwing this out the window. we don't have the moral high ground i don't remember. i think to your point, we're putting our troops at rick by doing this. >> well, that used to be the geneva convention worked both ways. navy seal eddie gallagher appeared on fox with strong words for military leaders. here he go es. >> this is all about ego and retaliation. this has nothing to do with good order and discipline. they could have taken my tridepartment any time they wanted. now they're trying to take it after the president restored my rank and filed an ig exposing all the corruption going on during my case. >> let's bring this home, this

guy is consistent. even in the movies and television shows. they hold his head down so he doesn't bang his head going into the car. extra judicial punishment there. trump doesn't like that. he said let them bang their heads on the way to the car. that's him. that his weird obsession with being mr. tough. >> yeah, because, where does it come from? some deep seeded insecurity, something like that? i don't know where it comes from. it's awful. have you gallagher there talking about his superiors, his chain of command, you know the leadership of the navy seals and on tv because through tv he has a direct line to the president of the united states, that's who gives the president of the united states his orders. >> what is this guy doing on tv when he's on active duty and he's trashing his chain of command. >> let's talk about service, the role of the secretary of the navy is what? is it to protect -- what do you

do? you protect -- the -- >> you train and equip the navy and the marine corps and yeah you protect the traditions, but you also stand up for the rule of law. you also protect your people by demanding accountability. >> that if somebody does something that is terrible, if somebody goes just against everything that we stand for, that there is accountability. >> that you can't do this because we're going to catch you. and we're going to make you responsible for these things. that's just gone. >> thank you very much for everything you've done. the former governor and you european robinson. up next, michael bloomberg launches his bid this weekend with a massive ad campaign targeting key primary states. why does he think he can win and what weaknesses in the democratic field of candidates that gets him in the race? you are watching "hardball." ra?

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. today i'm glad to announce that i am running for president to defeat donald trump and to unite and rebuild america. we cannot afford four more years of president trump's reckless and unethical actions. if president trump wins another term in office, we may never recover from the damage that he can do.

the stakes could not be higher. we must win this election. >> actually, he's better than that that was former new york city mayor michael bloomberg in his first campaign stop after announcing his candidacy for the democratic nomination for president this weekend. bloomberg is worth approximately $54, approximately would be 50. it's $54 million. has launched a there are 31 million ad buy, which is the most money of any candidate to spend in a single week of political advertising st it's like an average person of spending $57 bucks. according to analyzing analytics, which traction buys. he is polling nationally 2%. but he plans on taking a different path than the other candidates by forging, foregoing the early states and focusing on super-tuesday of march 3rd, which has 16 races in one day and has 34% of the primary's total delegates in one day

compared to 4% in the four early states which begin in iowa. he remains to be seen, it does, if that strategy will work without the melt item candidates get from states like iowa i am joined by kornell belcher and author of the many lives of michael bloomberg. i have to go down and ask you, because you wrote the book. why? >> why? >> is this guy at the age of 77 going into a race, he's never been a public democrat. he may have grown up one. why is he running for president at that age? >> why not? i mean you know i think he's at this point in his life. he says, if i don't do it now, how will i do it four years later? the main reason he's running is his people have been doing polls in the key states, you know, that trump won and hillary was supposed to win in 2016 and they found trump winning in virtually

every one of these states, so, bloomberg said i'm getting out there. i'm financial to be on the campaign trail. i'm going to fight the good fight and i'm going to aim all my gun power and a ton of money at donald trump. >> my talks with him which are generally casual has led me to believe that he doesn't want to lose and that would, you know, there is a sort of a courageous rashio at the gate. i would stop theen my. >> that i think he does it. i want to become secretary treasurer under obama. he has strong prides about things. i have as to win. i have to be the boss. why is he running? i want to try it on you. >> he has $54 billion. i don't think he wants to he war anyone. he's running -- look, he has smart people around him. i think it's the pathway. >> is he ross perot? >> no, no, because he's actually entered our democratic primary

and i think he sees a pathway. this could happen, chris. we could have the winner of iowa not be the winner of new hampshire and the win are of iowa, new hampshire, not be the winner of nevada or south carolina. >> okay, it's march 3rd. >> it's wide open. >> all these states on super tuesday. does he have the money to just blow the money through the system? >> he's already popped in $30 million. look, we are at a time when retail politics, i hate to say it, guys, it doesn't mean what it used to be. retail politics, kissing babies, donald trump didn't kiss any babies or shake any hands and he won the primary. i think don't underestimate how powerful, how profound an impact he can have on this race. >> do you believe as a pollster, just as analytics, that you can buy the presidential nomination with big tv advertising. >> i don't like the term buy it, but communications and communication dollars do impact. advertisements do have an impact.

>> do you see a person voting for president somebody they just heard about in an ad? >> yeah, actually i can. he's got to introduce himself, tell his story and give his rationale. part of his rationale is i'm the number one guy that can go up against trump and beat him. >> what would he die for? i know he's big on the big gulp, he doesn't like people drinking big sodas at the movies. but he was very good at smoking in new york. i never thought you could clean out the smoking in new york bars but he stopped smoking in bars and restaurants. he's also good on guns. when you put all that together, it sounds like nanny state. a lot of it together. >> well, look, as he says, he gave new yorkers three extra years. most new yorkers last three years longer than the rest of you guys out there. part of that is that he cut back on smoking and transfats and, you know, he advised people to walk up the escalator. you know, he did a lot of stuff

to -- he was the public health mayor of new york city. he's carried that on to guns and gun control and to climate control. you know, if you look at what he's done, he has a pretty expansive record. you know, what we're going to hear, i think, shortly is the things that he did wrong. but he did an awful lot of stuff right. >> how does he take credit for lower crime in new york, new york city, at the same time he's apologized for stop and frisk? >> well, for a very long time, he thought stop and frisk was the only way to lower crime in those high crime areas. and, you know, it was part of his gun control policy, and it just -- it went way too far. i was glad to say even though the timing was late and it was close to the campaign, i was so glad to see him actually

apologize, because it paves the way -- it's not that mike bloomberg doesn't have any black support. he has lots of black supporters. and of course many of them are mayors of cities around the country. he's supported cities as he's sort of this mayor emeritus who's gone around and helped mayors across the city, and many of them are supportive to the mayor of columbia, south carolina, augusta, georgia, both black mayors have come to his support. >> chris is going to need more people. i've talked to more friends and someone who's worked the democratic primary before. if you cannot compete strongly for the votes of minorities, you're not going to be the democratic nominee. he's got to have a conversation about stop and frisk that is real and explains to americans not only sort of apologize but explain how it's going to be different. i think it is the number one hurdle. >> i know from police experts, stop and frisk only makes sense

in a particular case when you have two gangs fighting with each other. killing on one side and the other kids out for revenge and in those moments something has to be done. thank you, cornell. up next, how adam schiff cemented his role in history this week. in fact today he did it. you're watching "hardball." act . you're watching "hardball. not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa on a scale of one to five? one to five? it's more like five million. there's everything from happy to extremely happy. there's also angry. i'm really angry clive!

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schiff is german for ship, which makes perfect sense for the historic role adam schiff, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, is now playing. he's shipping this impeachment to it's necessary destination. with his letter to congressional colleagues today, he's sending president trump on his way to a trial in the u.s. senate. he's putting trump where he least wants to be, facing the solid evidence against him. evidence that schiff's committee has now put on public record. not only that, there's a decent chance that the senate trial of donald j. trump will include testimony, sworn testimony from those he has placed around him. those who have been his palace guard could be by january star witnesses for the prosecution ra and his removal from office. so ask yourself if you're mick mulvaney or rudy giuliani or mike pompeo or any of the rest of this bunch, would you prefer to tell the truth or face a stiff term in federal prison for

perjury? because if the chief justice who will be presiding in the senate decides to demand their appearance, that's exactly the choice they will face. all this is going to happen for one prime reason, because adam schiff has kept the ship of state on course. and for that he deserves an historic credit. that's "hardball" for now. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> are you afraid, mr. mayor, that you could be indicted? >> oh, wow. do you think i'm afraid? >> i don't know. >> do you think i get afraid? >> new subpoenas reveal the depth of the federal investigation into the president's lawyer. >> ruddy is a great guy. >> tonight the trouble rudy is in. just what his indicted associate handed over to investigators. and just how close this all gets to the president. then -- >> i have a conscience very clear right now and i have a duty. >> republicans in congrs