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. and good day, i'm andrea

mitchell in washington. apologies for our technical difficulties. but today, president trump is slamming a federal judge's decision that former white house counsel don mcgahn must obey a house subpoena even as the administration filed a notice of appeal and continues to block other top officials from testifying or delivering documents to capitol hill. joining me now, nbc white house correspondent kristen welker, "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker, msnbc justice and security analyst matt miller is here with me. kristen, talk about the white house's reaction to the decision last night from a federal judge on the don mcgahn case which stemmed from a case last spring involving the mueller probe, not the impeachment probe. >> reporter: that's right, andrea, the justice department has already filed an appeal, that was expected. kellyanne conway, top adviser at the white house, said she

believed ultimately they would prevail if this were to go all the way to the supreme court. president trump is tweeting about this, andrea. let me read you what he had to say. the d.c. wolves and fake news media are reading far too much into people being forced by courts to testify before congress. i am fighting for future presidents and the office of the president. other than that i would actually like people to testify. now, that argument, andrea, could potentially undercut the broader legal argument which is that the white house would like to say some of these top officials are immune from testifying. now, everyone's raising the question, what will this mean for other former and current officials like performer national security adviser john bolton, will he be called to testify given this ruling by that federal judge? well, bolton's attorney is signaling they don't think he will, essentially saying that in the mcgahn case, the house judiciary committee emphasized to the district court that the information it sought from mcgahn did not involve the

sensitive topics of national security or foreign affairs, therefore essentially this attorney for bolton making the case that the information that bolton has would be sensitive. so therefore, he wouldn't fall under this same type of ruling. all of that remains to be seen. but the bottom line, andrea, is that the white house continues to dig in on this strategy of trying to block current and former officials from speaking to members of congress. we know adam schiff, top democrat in the house, is saying he is still moving forward, preparing to write a report soon after thanksgiving, andrea. >> and peter baker, what kristen just reported is coming from mr. cooper who is the attorney for john bolton. it does not comport with our reading, and we've talked to a number of people who have read this decision from the federal judge. she specifically says that national security information is like any other, that they have

to respond to the subpoena, they have to show up and then they can assert a privilege, whether it's national security or executive privilege, and that would then be litigated separately. she's saying there's nothing special about national security that would prevent a former national security adviser. and we know former presidents have testified, jerry ford testified, presidents and commanders in chief can testify to congress. this judge is saying there's no ruling that says that a national security issue is more sensitive than any other issue. that said, the white house has already vowed to appeal, they've filed papers saying they're appealing, peter. >> yeah, it's interesting, the judge seemed to write her opinion almost with ambassador bolton in mind. she did directly say it does not matter whether you primarily handle domestic affairs or national security, the principle is the same, presidents are not kings, they cannot have an absolute testimonial shield on

all current and former aides that suits them for their whim. it seemed like she was trying to send a message to armor bolton and his lawyer, chuck cooper, who is aggressively representing his clients, ambassador bolton and kupperman. this judge was appointed by president obama. the next judge to hear the case that charles kupperman filed and john bolton filed is a george w. bush appointee. i don't know if that makes a difference in their strategy. they're clearly saying they're going to wait for this other judge to tell us whether charles kupperman and therefore john bolton should have to testify. >> one interesting thing in one of the president's tweets today, peter baker, he calls john bolton a patriot. that's the first compliment he's paid to john bolton who left with a blast on twitter at him. they've been going back and forth with bolton saying he was

blocked from his personal twitter account when he left the white house, so there was a lot of tension there. but this is potentially a signal that the president is trying to make peace with john bolton, who knows a lot, peter. >> yeah, certainly he was happy with what bolton's lawyer said today. he was happy that john bolton was going to continue to abide by the white house wishes, which is that he not testify. so of course the president wants to make sure he keeps his former security adviser as happy as possible, i suppose, as long as he's taking that position. of course you and i both know, we've seen this before, if ambassador bolton were to take the other position, if he were suddenly to say something or agree to testify, i think you might hear a different tone from the president about his patriotism. but you're right, for the moment he wants to keep ambassador bolton on board, he wants to keep mick mulvaney, his acting chief of staff on board. obviously the house would like to hear from him since he's already told us in a briefing that there was a quid pro quo

between security aid and investigations of democrats in 2016. he tried to take that back but that makes him a key witness, and somebody the president would like to keep on board as well. you're right, the president has institutional interests whether aides get called to testify, every president feels compelled to protect the power of the office. but this is also a president trying to protect himself on the edge of an impeachment. >> and matt miller, one issue that very clearly is correct in what the bolton team is saying is that this mcgahn ruling does not affect them or any others. they're going to appeal it, from the white house's perspective, they have their own case coming forward. obviously judges look to what other judges have decided but this is not a case that necessarily applies at all. >> that's right, they were not a party to this case, this case involved just don mcgahn. that said, i think it was always a bit of a fantasy that john

bolton was going to testify. if he had wanted to testify, he would have shown up like his deputies like fiona hill did and testified. the house has withdrawn its subpoena to charles kupperman, they've never subpoenaed john bolton. i think the bottom line, the house in its impeachment inquiry is going to go forward without testimony from john bolton which is what i think he knew all along when he filed this case in the beginning. he and his lawyers would have known that the act of filing this case would take so long, either in the district court or because the justice department if they lost would appeal it to the d.c. court as they're doing in the mcgahn case, that this would stretch out months, into next year, and john bolton's testimony would be long after the house and senate had finished dealing with impeachment. i think he's getting exactly what he wanted all along. >> and john bolton is a yale lawyer in addition to being the former national security adviser. kristen, you're going to see the president today, but mike pompeo

at a press conference was asked specifically about the malemail that came out friday night in answer to a freedom of information lawsuit by an interest group which revealed that he had a lot of contact with rudy giuliani and the white house. let me play that for you. >> reporter: the president tweeted a short while ago that he would encourage you essentially to testify in the impeachment investigation, is that something you're considering? >> uh, when the time is right, all good things happen. >> and pompeo again, and we'll get to more of this in the program, did not respond to questions about the contacts that he had during the time when his ambassador was being recalled. but you're going to see the president later today? >> we will see the president later today. a couple of times, andrea, once he's going to pardon the turkeys, an annual tradition at

the white house, then he'll legal f leave for florida for an event there, he'll be spending the holidays at his estate on mar-a-lago. pompeo was quite elusive there in his answer, not saying yes or no, would he be willing to testify. and again, that question comes amid all of those witnesses who on capitol hill said that rudy giuliani was waging what amounted to a shadow foreign policy and that the secretary of state was wrapped up in all of it, andrea. >> kristen welker, as always, thank you so much. peter baker, matt miller, as well. coming up, democratic candidate senator kamala harris joins us live to talk about the latest 2020 polling, her new opponent mike bloomberg, impeachment, and a lot more. you won't want to miss that. stay with us right here on msnbc. here on msnbc. liberty mutual. only pay for what you need with liberty mutual. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas.

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simple. easy. awesome. call, click or visit a store today. we have a couple of candidates who don't have a medicare for all plan but by their own definition, 10 million people will be left out. that's 100 times the size of south bend.

and on the other hand, on the other hand -- [ applause ] >> senator kamala harris going after mayor pete buttigieg who is leading in a recent iowa poll, and breaking through in new hampshire as well. harris has been lagging behind in iowa, practically moving there but still coming in eighth in the crowded field. she also took him on about the suggestion that is a gay man he can relate to the struggles of african-american. >> di do sometimes have had the experience of feeling like a stranger in my own country. >> it's important that we not compare struggles. in our ongoing fight for civil rights if any one of us starts to differentiate ourselves in a way, in particular what he did on the stage, is not productive and i think it's a bit naive. >> joining me now, senator and

presidential candidate kamala harris. very good to see you. it's clear you're going after pete buttigieg. let's establish why, why you think that he should be answering some of these criticisms. >> well, i wouldn't say i'm going after him, andrea. but listen, for those of white house have been active in the civil rights community for a long time, it's just really well-known that we don't compare struggles. it is, as i've said, it's not productive. it works against what has always been the strength of the civil rights movement, and that is the coalition building. that is the work that we do recognizing the history, and the struggle that each has, not comparing them but knowing that when we are unified around those things that we share in common, we are strong as a movement, and that no one should be made to fight alone. and that was the point i was making, which is that, you know, when you've been doing this for

you work for a while, you know you don't compare one group fighting for civil rights against another group fighting for civil rights. it's a statement of fact, it shouldn't be done, it's not in the best interests of the coalition and not in the best interests of unifying folks who do, in spite of what may seem to be their differences, have so much more in common than what separates them. >> it's also true that in that clip, and i apologize for the audio from that south carolina event, it wasn't very clear, but you were joking about the size of south bend, indiana. you're suggesting he doesn't have the experience, that you've been an attorney general, you've been of course a senator, statewide election in a very populous state. >> no, no, the point i was making was that my health care plan covers everyone. by the buttigieg/biden plan, by

biden's own admission, it doesn't cover 10 million people. to put in context, the size of that population is in fact ten times the size of delaware and 100 times the size of south bend. that is just a fact. so my statement is a statement that is really about what is i think important about what we need going forward in terms of a workable health care plan that covers everyone. and so my plan covers everyone but also, as distinct from the warren/sanders approach, i'm also not trying to get rid of private insurance. in my plan people have the choice. i'm not going to take the choice from them of a private plan versus a public plan. on the one hand you have folks offering a choice that will not cover 10 million people. on the other hand you have folks offering a plan that takes away people's choice in terms of a private plan or a public plan. i believe my plan is the best

plan being offered on the debate stage. >> i understand you were defending your plan but you were talking about the size of south bend which is another point entirely. >> yes. >> mike bloomberg dropped $31 million in ad spending. just looking at what you have spent in iowa so far as of november 26th, stooeyer spent $8 million. you're at the bottom at $560,000. how do you compete against somebody who's dropping $31 million nationally, not just in iowa, from day one? >> you're bringing up a great point, andrea. it's a tragedy of the american political system that money plays a very big role in politics. when elected, one of my first areas of high priority would be to overturn citizens united and to take money out of this process. if our democracy is based on a

free and fair election system that includes one person, one vote, well, it's a bit skewed if people who have millions and millions, in some cases billions of dollars, and have the ability to influence how people think about who is available for their election process and what the ideas are. so it is very challenging, to that point, it is very challenging. and i'm trying to raise the money to be able to compete. but, you know, when you're looking at 30 something million or what other people are spending, it presents a great challenge for me, there's no question. >> our reporting is that one reason, one major reason that mike bloomberg finally got in was that he does not see the biden campaign as being able to take on president trump, he doesn't think that biden has been a strong enough candidate, and he feels that elizabeth warren, rising in the polls, is too liberal, to lefo left, if y

will, this is his perspective, not mine, but this is what i'm telling you from my reporting, to beat donald trump, if you take on that rationale. what does it say about those campaigns and those candidacies that he did belatedly decide to get in? >> yeah, listen, i mean, we've had i think 25 candidates in this race, so any more jumping in is not, i guess, surprising. but each person is going to have to compete based on their -- the merits of their plans as well as based on their experience. and i do also believe that to win the nomination, the democratic nomination, two things are essential, one, that the nominee has the ability to go toe-to-toe with donald trump, and two, that the nominee has the ability to build the coalition. i referenced the obama coalition, the coalition that is about young voters, voters of color, women, working people,

independents. and that is going to be the winning ticket, if you will. and so everyone's going to have to plead their case about what is their strength in that regard. i do believe ultimately those will be the two winning factors in terms of winning next november. >> how do you compete against joe biden who is doing so well with african-american voters, the older african-american voters seem to be flocking to him certainly in south carolina. according to "the new york times" polling today, they have data that is anecdotal, younger black voters are not flocking to you or senator booker. that has to be frustrating for two african-americans who have been in the struggle, who fought the fight, to be competing against white candidates and not attracting the black votes. >> everyone has to earn the vote of every person. i have never and never would take for granted that because of my gender or my race, that people will naturally come to me. you have to earn the support.

and the reality is that when you look at at least three of the top people on the ticket, they've been on the national stage for decades. they're well-known. they are for that reason familiar. and the challenge that those of us who have not been on the national stage before, those of us who have not run for president before, is to make ours known. that's why in the last couple of days i've been building a group of folks in south carolina that we did what was historic, a whole agenda around black women voting and being engaged and empowerment. i'm here in iowa today doing a similar approach. i've got 100 teachers who are coming out tomorrow to announce their endorsement of my candidacy because a large part of my focus is on public education and the need to improve public education in america. so we have to earn the support. and again, the challenge for me is introducing myself to people who don't know me. and what i find and what we find

is you can look at the polling numbers that tell us the majority of people are undecided, even though, even though the top three people are well-known, they're not committed to them. so that's an opportunity, as well as a challenge. but i see it as an opportunity. >> i wanted to play a moment from the debate stage that was kind of stunning, it was vice president biden talking about his relationship with black support. >> i have more people supporting me in the black community that have announced for me because they know me, they know who i am. three former chairs of the black caucus. the only african-american woman that's ever been elected to the united states senate. a whole range -- >> no. >> that's not true. >> the other one is here. [ laughter ] >> i said the first. >> what was it like onstage, what were you thinking? >> well, i actually said what i

was thinking, which is, you know, that's actually not true, the other one is on the stage. listen, andrea, you and i and many of us know that even when we're on the stage, we often have to point it out to people that we're on the stage. >> indeed we do. >> that's just the reality of these things sometimes. there you go. >> share with our viewers, anyone who did not see the takedown on "snl," maya rudolph was a great kamala harris. let's watch. >> tulsi, i'm going to be real with you, all right? you scare the hell out of me. you just gave me, oh, my god, gersberns. >> they took on all the candidates, not just you, but it was quite a moment. >> she's phenomenal. she's phenomenal.

yeah, there you go. so there's a bit of comedy in the process of running for president, there is no question. >> given what you have to go through, you have to laugh when you can. >> you have to. you have to. and also i have to tell you, andrea, there's a lot of good out here. and i think that in the midst of this fight, and i do believe we are in a fight, i believe we're in a fight for our democracy, for our system of justice, for the rule of law, and we have to win, and i've shared with you why, and how we will win, being able to go toe-to-toe with donald trump and being able to build the coalition. all of that being said, i will tell, spending time if south carolina, here in iowa, around our country, there is so much good. and people are activated and they are participating. and, you know, out of love of our country, people are willing to fight for the best of who we are. and from that i derive a great deal of optimism and hope.

>> thank you very much, and be safe out there on the campaign trail. >> have a happy thanksgiving. >> same thank you and your family. >> thank you, take care. coming up, speaking out. in his first interview since being fired, former navy secretary richard spencer slams president trump for his handling of the eddie gallagher case. we'll be right back. allagher ca. we'll be right back. there's my career... my cause... and creating my dream home. i'm a work in progress. so much goes into who i am. hiv medicine is one part of it. prescription dovato is for adults who are starting hiv-1 treatment and who aren't resistant to either of the medicines dolutegravir or lamivudine. dovato has 2 medicines in 1 pill to help you reach and then stay undetectable. so your hiv can be controlled with fewer medicines while taking dovato. you can take dovato anytime of day with food or without. don't take dovato if you're allergic to any of its ingredients or if you take dofetilide. if you have hepatitis b, it can change during treatment with dovato and become harder to treat.

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navy secretary richard spencer is slamming the commander in chief over his decision to intervene in the case of a navy s.e.a.l. accused of war crimes. president trump said on twitter, quote, i will always protect our great war fighters, i've got your backs. in an interview, spencer says the president doesn't know what he's talking about. >> what message does it send to the troops? >> what message does it send? >> that you can get away with things. i don't think he understands the full definition of a war fighter. a war fighter is a profession of arms. a profession of arms has standards they have to be held to and they hold themselves to. >> gallagher of course was acquitted of war crimes but he was demoted from his previous rank and the president restored that rank over the objections to the interference by the secretary of the nature who was then fired. joining me is the son of a

former navy secretary, david ignatius from "the washington post" and an msnbc political contributor who is a longtime observer on not just foreign policy but the military and intelligence communities. what was so unusual about the way the president stepped in? he has a legal right as commander in chief but what was so offensive if i look closely as your quotation? >> andrea, the first important thing about this is that it began a long time ago, nine months ago is when secretary spencer received his first phone call from president trump demanding that he give special treatment, in effect, to navy s.e.a.l. eddie gallagher. gallagher was in the bringig awaiting trial on what were then murder charges. it was alleged that he had stabbed an islamic state captive in iraq and posed for a picture

with him, a trophy picture that was tweeted out. the president called spencer in california and said, get him out, meaning get gallagher out of the brig. spencer kind of raised some questions about this, and trump is said to have told him, you want a direct order? get him out. that's back in march. so gallagher is released from the brig, from the confinement the navy had chosen. he's put in more comfortable facilities. then trump continues to agitate during his trial. there was a plan before the trial that he floated with spencer, let's pardon him pre-trial so he doesn't have to go through this trial. spencer talked him out of that. the trial happened. he was acquitted on the murder charge but he was convicted for posing with this photograph. then we come down to this question of whether his trident pin, coveted among s.e.a.l.s,

should be withdrawn. this is happened more than 150 times over the last eight years. the navy takes discipline so seriously in these elite units, there was an absolutely strict and clear order. once a month somebody gets a pin taken away in a peer review process. that's what the president intervened in. last week he tweeted that this board should not meet to decide gallagher's fate as an s.e.a.l., that he's a war fighter and i want his trident pin maintained. that really upset spencer and it upset many, many senior commanders in the navy who felt this was direct interference in their ability to keep the service operating with clear, strong rules. at the end of the day, spencer's

efforts to try to keep trump from intervening in the process blew up. he was trying to find some way to do two things at once, somehow do what the president wanted with gallagher but maintain the review process. in the end, it didn't work. spencer was fired, trump ordered this review process scuttled, so it's gone. i think there are really bruised feelings. the s.e.a.l.s are one of the prizes this country has and i talk to people in this community regularly, they're really feeling upset that the commander in chief has intervened. gallagher is represented by two former partners of the president's attorney rudy giuliani.

if you wonder why gallagher gets all the special attention, that's why, and that bothers people too. >> david ignatius with a unique perspective on all of this, as always, thanks very much. coming up, investigating trump. the co-founders of the firm that investigated president trump in 2016 said the president's ties with russia go back for decades. stay with us on "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. on "andrea ml reports" on msnbc. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection or flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. talk to your doctor today,

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president trump continues to insist that ukraine, not russia, attacked the 2016 campaign and that he, not hillary clinton, was targeted, blaming the so-called steele dossier, a gathering of raw intelligence and opposition research initially commissioned by candidate trump's republican rivals, then picked up by the democrats. my next guests have a lot to say about that false narrative. glenn simpson and peter fritch are the co-expounders of fusion gps. their book is "crime in progress: inside the investigation into donald trump." welcome, both. glenn, can you set people straight about the so-called

steele dossier and why you think it's being used by republicans, by the president, by house republicans, devin nunes certainly, to try to undermine the mueller report and a lot of the conclusions that go into the theory that ukraine was involved somehow in targeting the president and not -- something i should point out, not just the intelligence community consensus but also the bipartisan consensus of the senate, republican-led senate intelligence committee in only recent months. >> essentially, because the steele dossier was a piece of campaign research that was when we were working for hillary clinton and the democrats, they think that by pointing that out over and over again, they can delegitimize everything that happened after that. as you point out, that's just not right. it's not accurate to say that the fbi investigation into the

trump campaign was triggered by the steele dossier. it's also a fact that the first half of our investigation into donald trump that led us to hire chris steele was funded by the republicans. so there was no democratic conspiracy to frame donald trump. i've never been to ukraine. the idea that the dossier comes from ukraine is yet another phony conspiracy theory. >> and in fact rudy giuliani was propagating that only in recent days. tell us how you happened to run into him and tried to set him straight. >> it was funny, i was taking the shuttle flight from new york to washington, and he strode up to the gate. we got onto the plane. i was sitting there texting my colleagues, saying rudy giuliani is sitting in front of me. they said, oh, he just went on glenn beck and claimed you spent a lot of time in ukraine in 2016.

i had never been in ukraine in my life. i told him that, after we landed in washington, in an attempt to set him straight. and he said, oh, okay, i will look into it, we'll see if that's true. he did seem to think i really had been in ukraine. >> and the other part of the investigation that's still going on, and william barr is investigating, the assistant attorney general of connecticut is circling the globe, they're going into the origins of the investigation, the steele dossier. what about the original fisa warrant, peter, the carter page? we understand that the ig report is going to say there was some amending of a document by a lower level fbi official but not a finding of bias on the part of the fbi. we'll wait to see what comes out in the first part of december for that. but was there a justification

for going after carter page, a campaign adviser to donald trump, and having that surveillance approved by a judge? >> first, i don't think we're prepared to comment on what the inspector general of the department of justice is preparing to do. >> understood. >> you've seen the reporting in "the washington post" and "the new york times" and other assets. carter page, this was an individual who was under investigation by federal authorities going back to the almost seven or eight years now, right? he was a target of russian intelligence. he went in july of 2016 to address the new economic school, a russian university, its matriculating class or ceremony. the last american to do so was sitting president of the united states barack obama. how does a low-level energy analyst end up addressing a body like that in the footsteps of

barack obama? that raised a lot of questions in our mind. >> what about chris steele? to you, glenn, why did you bring christopher steele in? he is a former mi6 intelligence official. what was his expertise? >> sure. chris is the leading authority on russia worldwide and is well-respected by his colleagues. he served a tour in russia, then rose to become the head of the russia desk for mi6 before retiring in 2009. we had done other work with him, and he lived up to his reputation as a sterling analyst and researcher of information from the former soviet union. so that's why we decided to work with him. the events that led to us hiring him were essentially this long investigation that began, commissioned by the republicans to look into donald trump's business career. and that began in september of

2015, before the republican primaries had even started. and it went on for months and months and months, and more connections between trump and people from the former soviet union kept coming up. and so we finally exhausted all the public records and we decided we needed someone who could actually do some work inside russia. >> by the way, remember, andrea, christopher steele was not aware of our client and this was not a political exercise in any way. this was simply an inquiry to understand why the multiple trips by donald trump to russia had not resulted in business deals. and what came back is obviously fairly famous at this point. >> and why did you become suspicious of manafort? >> we had worked on stories about him at "the wall street journal," peter and i were in the brussels bureau of "the journal" in the mid-2000s.

one of the people i came across who was working with russian oligarchs and suspected organized crime figures was paul manafort. we published some stories about him at that time. and that led in turn to other newspapers covering manafort. and questions about his associations over there and his finances kept coming up year after year. we gathered string on him over the years, and when he surfaced at the trump campaign we were amazed, and obviously we knew a lot about him. and that gave us incentive to dig in further. >> it's a fascinating read, "crime in progress." you're setting the record straight from your perspective. this is your perspective. this is a fascinating book. thank you both for being with us. >> thanks for having us. coming up, state secrets. new details about just how much

contact secretary of state mike pompeo had with rudy giuliani leading up to the ukraine does an scandal. giuliani leinadg up to the ukraine does an scandal music) - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. gimme one minute... and i'll tell you some important things to know about medicare. first, it doesn't pay for everything. say this pizza is your part b medical expenses. this much - about 80% - medicare will pay for. what's left is on you. that's where an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company comes in. this type of plan helps pay some of what medicare doesn't. these are the only plans to carry the aarp endorsement for meeting their high standards of quality and service.

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welcome book. secretary of state mike pompeo still not answering questions about emails showing that he was in touch with rudy giuliani and the white house last spring during giuliani's smear campaign against ukraine ambassador marie

yovanovitch. state department documents released friday in response to a freedom for information request reveal pompeo and giuliani had at least two conversations in the weeks before yovanovitch was ousted from her job are. joining me is ousted william burns who served under five presidents and ten secretaries.. joining me is ousted william burns who served under five presidents and ten secretaries.. joining me is ousted william burns who served under five presidents and ten secretaries.. joining me is ousted william burns who served under five presidents and ten secretaries.. joining me is ousted william burns who served under five presidents and ten secretaries. pompeo was very connected. we don't they do what he said with giuliani because they have refused to release all the documents to the impeachment inquiry, but we know that he was in touch with giuliani and the white house in the weeks and days preceding yovanovitch being pulled back. >> and it certainly suggests that the secretary was a way of the ifefforts to smear yovanovih going back to last spring and there is certainly no evidence to this day that he tried to stop it. and no evidence to this day of him standing up for ambassador

yovanovitch or other career diplomats in the face of deeply unfair and deeply unfounded accusations. >> and considering his clear close relationship with the president now that all the other advisers are gone and he was the last man standing, if he had really gone to the mat over this at all to try to defend her, i would think that something might have been altered. >> you certainly would think that he would have had the influence do that. but the consequences of not doing that are really corrosive. it is a further hollowing out of the state institution and what the president has called america first to foreign policy to something that looks more like trump first. it is what happens when as fiona hill put did you elevate domestic errands over foreign concerns. and it erodes america's influence in the world. >> tom friedman writing in the

"new york times" that mike pompeo last in his class at west point in integrity. he says graduating first is not a small achievement, but more impressive when you consider he finished number one even though he must have flunked all his courses on leadership. i would never want to be in a trench with that man. watch your backs because pocmpe won't. is that fharsh or accurate? >> i'm undecided on that. we have anbdication of leadershp and i think that this is a moment where it matters more than ever on a competitive landscape. >> and you wrote recently, it is not just the trump administration's acts of bureaucratic arson such as the

systemic sidelining of career officers or historic proposed budget cuts which have brought applications to the foreign service to a two decade low. and it is not just acts of political arson such as the groundless mccarthyist attacks against professionals perceived to be disloyal. it is the cronyism that we see on full and gory display in the ukraine scandal. the counter -- the contrary narrative to that is the testimony of those career professionals whom we saw from the nsc and fiona hill, from david hale, the state department, william taylor and the others who came forward not resistings subpoenas and showed the meddle of these -- yovanovitch certainly. very brave diplomats. >> it is very true. and these are people who demonstrated dignity in a undignified moment in washington. they demonstrated

professionalism and integrity at a moment when both of those are oftentimes in short supply in washington. and they walked up to capitol hill with their heads held high. they walked into a public spotlight the that none of them ever saw, but they told the truth, which is their obligation and their oath to the constitution. >> it is so interesting also that yovanovitch, fiona hill, alexander vindman, all naturalized americans haven chosen to come here and seven their country. >> and i think a lot of times people who have that family history appreciate the values that set us apart. >> ambassador burns, always good to see you. i know there has been a lot of sniping back and forth and good to see the pushback now. >> good to see you. happy thanksgiving. >> same to you. and that does it for us. and shear stephanie ruhle for vel whichshe wil "velshi & ruhl"

and coming up, a major ruling concerns former white house lawyer don mcgahn that he must testify to the house judiciary committee. what does that decision mean for the impeachment inquiry and most specifically president trump? plus new reporting that jared kushner is leading construction of the border wall. we'll look at the latest goals including how many miles trump wants down by the election. and the father of this girl, jamie, there she is, the parkland shooting victim. jamie ges gut lenburg. he is going after president trump for inaction on gun control. we'll be speaking with fred later this hour. but first, president trump and his administration now responding to the major court ruling that ordered don mb becg to testify inheou