we'll also look at the new troubles mayor pete buttigieg is facing as he tries to relate to african-americans by pointing out that he's gay. we're celebrating the holiday in new york with the annual macy's thanksgiving day parade just outside our studios. we'll be right in the middle of all the action. we begin with new developments in the impeachment inquiry into president trump. new reports suggest his personal attorney rudy giuliani pursued business dealings in ukraine. documents reviewed by the "wall street journal," "the washington post" and "the new york times" all paint a picture of how giuliani allegedly teamed up with the ukrainian government officials to find politically damaging information. the man often deemed america's mayor tweeting this in response to the reports saying in part, quote, i did not pursue a business opportunity in ukraine. i could have helped them recover $7 billion in stolen money but i

didn't. was paid zero. joining me from wooech, florida, where president trump is spending the holiday at his mar-a-lago resort, nbc's kelly o'donnell. what else do we know about the giuliani reporting and has the white house commented on it yet? >> reporter: the white house has not commented on it. the president through a conversation he had with bill o'reilly before these reports came out said some things that are a bit related where he talked about giuliani having other clients, having other interests that relate to ukraine. but giuliani has forcefully denied this as you pointed out with a tweet he put out. he also did an interview a few days ago before this was reported saying he had no business dealings in ukraine. in part that had been part of the dialogue in the public hearing in the intelligence committee about giuliani's relationships with some of the key figures in ukraine including former prosecutor yuriy lutsenko and what the documents show.

there are a few newspapers that have reviewed documents, contracts from giuliani partners, his security firm that were beginning the process of a business engagement which would represent in one instance, it was $200,000. in another it was $300,000 in retainer fees with this ukrainian official and separately with the ministry of justice. so a government entity in ukraine. what is important to point out is these were contracts that were not finalized and not pursued and, therefore, no business went forward. but it raises the question about at the time this was happening, which was earlier this year, the beginning of 2019, was giuliani pursuing interest for his own personal self gain at the same time he was dealing with officials trying to gather information that might be useful to the president, whether it was with respect to the 2016 election or the bidens and their

activities in ukraine. giuliani said he didn't think it was appropriate to go forward with that. he says he was paid nothing for this and that's where he wants to leave it. it raises these questions about was there a conflict? were there conflicting motivations, was there a reason for ukraine to give him information that would not be helpful to the bidens or would be inflammatory in some way because of this business relationship that did not fully get off the ground. that's what the reporting is. of course, we know there are investigations happening in the southern district of new york dealing with giuliani and his activities. we don't know if this relates to that in any way. this is one of those incremental updates in what has been a complicated series of stories. it gives us some additional context from the impeachment inquiry. >> kelly, do you get any sense that the white house is starting to or now it's heard these reports, will start to distance itself from giuliani here? >> reporter: well, in many respects we don't hear from the

official channels of the white house, but we hear from the president himself who has said that giuliani is still his lawyer, he talks to him with some regularity, but also saying that the president in his own words said he did not direct giuliani to act on his behalf with you crane which flies in the face of other evidence we have including the summary of the call in dealing with the july 25th call between ukraine's president and president trump where he talks about rudy giuliani. it also conflicts with the the of gordon sondland who said he was told to meet with and work with giuliani's at the president's direction. it's hard to square those things when he says he didn't tell giuliani to do that. >> i'd love to ask you to stick around by that beautiful founta fountain. in the meantime, my panel, joel rubin, president of the washington strategy group, doug burns former federal prosecutor

and ginger gibson, political correspondent for reuters. doug, how credible are these reports given they come from actual documents? is there enough to charge giuliani with foreign lobbying violations? >> at this point it's a little preliminary. the overview given was very, very good. it breaks down the distinction legally between a potential conflict and an actual conflict. what it sounds like factually is there were retainer or engagement letters or agreements that were not signed. to answer your question, it's a mixed answer. you can give a harsh political sound bite. it didn't happen. that's it. this is crazy. no, no, that's not the law. you could have some attempted theory, conspiratorial theory, but where i come down on it it's a little early, very complicated and we need to study more. >> if he were to be con viced what kind of punishment could he possibly face? >> depends how much money is involved. under the federal sentencing guidelines it tracks how much money is involved.

>> ginger, even if giuliani faces legal implications here, he could still be pardoned by president trump? you think the white house could cut ties with giuliani completely? >> so far we haven't seen the white house willing to cut ties with giuliani. i think all this underscores the complicated relationship that the white house has with giuliani. the president calls him his attorney. he's not being paid. he can't be fired perhaps, but maybe he could. when we talk about the ramifications of these things, something even going as far as talking about a pardon, these are political ramifications, not just legal ramifications. there's always a risk when a president issues a pardon that it's seen by the public as trying to service one of his friends or doing something that was inappropriate, averting justice. so there would be a lot of questions if president trump were to do so, especially if he were standing for re-election at the same time. >> joel, let me ask you this.

we've seen president trump pull the "i barely knew this guy" card with paul manafort, for instance. could we see that happen here or is he too far along with giuliani for that to even sfwhork. >> allison, he's way too far along, that's for sure. there's something very important we're just learning. we're now seeing the origins of the smear campaign against ambassador marie yovanovitch. this is how it went down. it sounds like rudy giuliani was seeking a contract from enemies of yovanovitch and he was going to do what he could to secure that contract. that's about the same time period that the smear campaign took off. that's the time when he was spreading this information about her. how the president took off of that and went after joe biden is a separate issue. but clearly, rudy giuliani was looking for a contract and the president can't separate himself from that. >> doug, joel, ginger, don't go anywhere. we'll head back out to kelly o. in palm beach, kelly o'donnell.

>> reporter: it's so important to point out that rudy giuliani has not been charged with any crime. so we should not be talking about pardoning someone who has not been charged with the crime. we've got to let the steps play out. he was a former u.s. attorney in new york. there is an investigation going on. so we've got to look at each of these pieces with care. clearly these documents suggest there was an effort made to try to have some business. we don't know the intentions. we don't know what's behind it. we've got to proceed very carefully here until we have more facts. he's still the president's lawyer. he is still denying these allegations, and there have been no charges against rudy giuliani. so to get ahead of ourselves i think is not wise. so we've got to keep that perspective as we're talking about this. >> absolutely. kelly o'donnell in west palm beach, thank you so much. meanwhile democrats gearing up for witness testimony on capitol hill. next week party members on the house judiciary committee will

make their case for impeachment before congress leaves for recess and before the 2020 primary elections get into full swing. i want to bring back in kelly o'donnell. the white house is reviewing an invitation from house democrats to president trump's legal team to participate in the first judiciary committee hearing next week. how does this square with the administration's message that this is an illegitimate sham process and will we likely see any kind of participation there? >> reporter: we're not going anywhere, we'll be here all day. come back to us any time. >> we will. >> this address is an issue that the president has been hammering where he and his republican allies have said they have not had due process in the first phase of the impeachment inquiry, they were not given all the opportunities to participate. now we're in the new phase and the judiciary committee led by jerrold nadler says the president is welcome to appear

himself, welcome to have witnesses for the panel next week. the white house says they're considering this. they did so in a statement that also called it a partisan, a sham process. so undercutting and criticizing the very process at the same time they're talking about considering it. it would be a major shift for the president's team to now get involved at the same time they're trying to say it's not a legitimate process. in terms of the anticipated timing, the scheduled hearing comes when the president, at least at this point, is scheduled to be overseas for a nato summit in london. so he wouldn't be personally there, but could he send some of his own legal team, whether it's the white house counsel or personal legal counsel to question the panel. the next sfaez will not be the kind of fact witnesses we saw in the intelligence committee part that was so gripping and dramatic. these will be more academic professionals that will talk about the constitutional grounds for impeachment. the thinking behind that is

democrats are saying it's been a generation or more since congress and the american people have grappled with the issue of impeachment and to try to provide, in essence, a sive vicks lesson for everyone about what the constitution permits. one of the arguments you could see the white house trying to make is the president can conduct foreign policy any way he chooses and, therefore, these might not be impeachable allegations once there are real articles of impeachment. we're not even there yet. it will be a real question to see if the white house wants to engage. >> kelly, i'm going to bring the panel back in. doug, as kelly mentioned, it does not look like the president, at least right now he's scheduled to be in london for nato. doesn't look like he'll attend. a chance his legal team may. they're considering it. what are you hearing? >> i never thought the president would participate because the point is you have the split approach, the thing is a sham, a disgrace, so why would he do that? i find it interesting that you'll have an academic seminar

about impeachment because we've heard everybody pontificating about treason, bribery and high crimes and misdemeanors and no one seems to know what that really means because that was from 200-plus years ago. there's probably a slplit in th academy. real quick, the biggest lesson i've learned in 34 years is you can't predict how things will play out live in a hearing or courtroom. it's going to be very interesting. >> never know what you're going to get. you can't kalt. joel, if the president is impeached, chances are slim to none he will be removed from office. are the democrats prepared for his re-election even if he is impeached? does that weaken the party that all this has gone on, do they look defeated? >> i don't think anyone is ever defeated when they're standing up for the constitution. the position for the democrats is to try to educate the public about what is really taking place and why impeachment is the necessary course for the congress to take against the

president. and they're on firm ground there. one other thing to think about is they may be holding it open just a bit to see what happens in court cases, to see if more evidence comes out publicly. maybe they'll have a substantive hearing as well. let them send it to the senate. they'll have a trial. the chief justice will provide over it. one never knows what will be said, that the president will have to participate in and they, quite frankly, may make mistakes as well. so for the public to hear why it's important, this is a really important step. >> ginger, let me flip it over to you. many republicans argue the impeachment hearings can actually benefit president trump. there are still a lot of americans that support the inquiry. how does the white house navigate that as we head into 2020? >> the politics of this are a big question. both sides think there's a way they could come out on top. president trump and his son eric trump recently said they think a senate trial is a win for them. in part because mitch mcconnell would be largely in charge of the process.

eric trump even talked about calling barack obama to testify. the president has talked about calling adam schiff to testify. >> all very likely, right? >> i'm not sure if we've seen a former president compelled to testify in the united states senate. they think they can get their political enemies under oath on the stand and make them suffer and they'll come out on top. we have seen some polls in this early process showing some voters are becoming more sympathetic to the president as this process unfolds. i think as the point has already been made, you never know what's going to happen. you never know how it's going to play out. it could take one moment, one big explosive moment to really shift public opinion in either direction in this process. >> i think we can all agree, if one thing is certain, nothing is certain. doug jones, joel rubin, ginger gibson, thank you for being

here. happy thanksgiving of the wi. nbc news confirms with south korea's military that north korea launched two unidentified projectiles days after drills near a disputed sea border with the south. today's launches are north korea's 13th public weapons test this year. you're watching msnbc. ♪ limu emu & doug and now for their service to the community, we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. and now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm a verizon engineer, and i'm part of the team building the most powerful 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband-- --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster

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[ dramatic music ]ing ] ahhhh! -ahhhh! elliott. you came back! ousted navy secretary richard spencer stepping up his criticism of the president's

intervention in the case of navy s.e.a.l. eddy gallagher who was facing demotion after he was convicted with posing with the corpse of an isis fighter. arguing it was, quote, a reminder that the president has very little understanding of what it means to be in the military, to fight ethically or to be governed by a uniform set of rules and practices. joining me now, cory shocky, deputy director general at the international institute for strategic sud december, worked for the nsc and state department under george w. bush. and matt welsh from reason magazine. cory, how is it to hear this strong criticism of the sitting president from a top military official? >> secretary spencer isn't a top military official since he's a civilian. he's right that the president circumventing the military chain of command because people are

going on tv and complaining about the military justice system is a terrible way to intervene in the military's own ability to police its professional standards. >> matt, spencer wrote in his op-ed from the start trump personally involved himself in gallagher's case. does this involvement from the commander-in-chief undermine the norms of the military and the independence of the military's own justice system? >> of course it does. trump in florida a couple days ago was bragging that just this week he protected three of our great warriors against the deep state. think about that for a second. he's equating war criminals literally with warriors and also the sort of independent culture, the professionalized culture of the military with the deep state. what do you think that does to morale and the people who swear an oath to the flag and to the culture and tradition and their brothers in the military and sisters when they hear the commander-in-chief talking about this. this can threaten to change the

culture of the very military that protects us right now which is a little bit of a difficult thing to swallow. >> could the president argue, hey, i'm the commander-in-chief? >> he could. the idea that institutions themselves are disreputable and dis credible, it's nihilistic. it's saying all the traditions we built up are garbage and we need to start from scratch and we need to somehow -- the problem with our military is we're not taking the handcuffs off which is a juvenile playground approach to how we handle our affairs. >> kori, he ends with this, americans need to know that 99.9% of our uniformed members always have, always are and always will make the right decision. our allies need to know we remain a force for good and to bear with us as we go through this moment in time. how should both our allies and enemies make sense of this episode between the president and the military? what impact, if any at all, does

it have on the perceptions of our military? >> it's one more example of the president not respecting the norms of democratic governance. that's going to give american allies concern. people grow to put their sons and daughter under american military commend because they trust in the integrity, ethics and professionalism of the american military. being the good guys is a strategic asset that the president is frittering away and it will make it more dangerous for our military to protect our country. >> how could this impact the degree of respect our troops have for the chain of command? could they see the president's actions in this gallagher case and have reason to think they could intervene on their behalf, either positively or negatively? >> that's absolutely right, alison. what the president is doing is inciting people to circumvent good order and discipline in the

military and to try and angle their way on to television so that the president will take an interest in their cases. it's a terrible disruption to good order and discipline in the military. >> matt, the president prides himself on the relationship with acting service members and veterans. in 2016 according to exit polling compiled by "the new york times" president trump garnered support from 61% of americans with military service compared to 34% for clinton. do you think this dispute will affect the president's standing with that constituency as we head into 2020? >> probably not. the culture of the military tends to be more conservative. let's also remember that one thing president trump has done unlike almost all his predecessors, hess hasn't launch a war. one of the biggest problems stressing military families is non-stop deployments. i would like to see some of those deploipts end. the president came in promising to end those and hasn't done that which is a shame. i think that element of his

presidency rings well with military culture because we've been at war for forever in afghanistan. >> kori shocky, matt welch, happy thanksgiving to the two of you. heading overseas, china condemning the united states for passing laws backing protesters in hong kong. president trump passed the two bills yesterday. they allow the u.s. to implement economic sanctions on hong kong and chinese officials guilty of human rights abuses. the bills put pressure on china and raise new questions about the future of a trade deal wen the u.s. and china. coming up, mayor pete buttigieg saying being gay helps him relate to black americans. why that's angering some voters. we were worried the balloons might not fly. the macy's thanksgiving day parade is not disappointing crowds. we'll be outside joining millions on the parade route today. you're watching msnbc. de route today. you're watching msnbc. tremfya® helps adults with moderate to severe

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correspondent gabe gutierrez standing along the par road route. how are things from where you're standing? it looks pretty good from here. >> reporter: hello, alison. happy thanksgiving. we're right in the thick of it on 6th avenue. all these folks, people from around the world, guys, how excited are you? >> i'm so excited right now. >> reporter: where are you from? >> i'm from puerto rico. i always see santa with my family. i say hi mom right now. >> reporter: the first time you've been to the parade? >> yes. >> reporter: what has been your favorite balloon so far? >> spongebob for sure. >> reporter: he was awesome. oh, wait. alison, i've got to tell you, these are the people here in the parade. it has been amazing. there were concerns about whether these balloons would fly. everybody was waiting on pins

and needles until right before 9:00 when the nypd said they would. how great has the weather been so far? >> wonderful. it's been beautiful. it's the best day of the year. >> reporter: some people were concerned these balloons weren't going to fly. >> it has been gorgeous. >> we've got santa claus in town. what else do we need? >> reporter: where are you from? >> cincinnati, ohio. >> reporter: how excited are you to be here? >> i couldn't be happier. let's get it done. >> reporter: alison, i've got to tell you, more than 3 million people are expected here and we have been talking with them through out the morning. again, if the wind gusts had been above 34 miles an hour and sustained winds above 23 miles an hour, these balloons -- we've been seeing these large character balloons throughout the morning. sorry you couldn't see them from our position right here, but it has been so exciting here. alison, you've seen this parade

many timesment i've got to tell you, this is my first thanksgiving day parade i've experienced here. it has really been magnificent. we've spoken with people from australia, from california. where are you from? >> we're from old bethpage. >> my people. >> reporter: what's been your favorite balloon so far? >> snoopy. >> reporter: snoopy was terrific. cracker barrel, that float. what did you think about sponge sfwhob. >> his foot was hurting. >> reporter: thank you guys so much for talking to us. alison, i'll send it back to you. again, the parade -- >> a quick question for you while you're out there. those folks from old bethpage, that's my part of looild. how early were people getting there. the front row spots have to be tough to get. do they get out early in the morning? >> reporter: as you can see, my cameraman ronnie can pan around.

we're at 6th avenue in midtown manhattan. they're several rows deep. people were getting here about 4:00, 5:00. when did you get here to get in line? >> 4:00 a.m. >> reporter: did you think the weather was going to cooperate? >> not too bad. but i'm getting cold now. >> reporter: thankfully, the wind, it could have been worse. we saw some of it gusting in new jersey overnight, wind gusts up above 50 miles an hour or so. so there was some concern these balloons wouldn't be able to fly. they have flown a little lower than usual, and it takes about 90 people per balloon to keep it under control. thankfully, as you can see, everyone seems to be having a really good time. you see the nypd keeping things safe. it has been a fantastic morning here in manhattan. >> one of the best in new york city. you say it's your first parade, certainly will not be your last.

our new nbc parade correspondent, gabe gutierrez, thank you so much. >> good to be here, thanks, alison. we've got heavy snow and rain, more high winds threatening holiday plans out west. right now some 23 million people under winter weather alerts from california all the way to michigan. joining me for a look at what to expect if you are traveling, nbc news meteorologist michelle grossman. michelle, what's the latest? you've got to feel bad for travelers on both coasts dealing with these storms? >> absolutely. we're looking at an expansive area in terms of winter weather alerts, warnings. all these colors showing a warning, watch or blizzard warning. rapid city under that in the purple here. stretching from the southwest to the northern plains over to the great lakes and even down to parts of southern plains. this is a wide area. this is what satellite and radar looks like right now. where you're seeing the blue, that's where the snow is falling. the pink is the icy mix,

terrible to travel on. we're looking at heavy rain in the southern plains. no fun there. strong winds as well, strong winds in the southwest to the central plains and, of course, to the northeast. in the northeast we've been talking about this this morning. this is the big story for today, the wind story. looking at a high wind advisory -- wind advisory in this blue for parts of the northeast. that will extend into tonight. winds gusting over 50 miles per hour in some spots. making for tricky travel, especially many terms of air travel. here it is, the two storms we've been talking about. we have a third storm coming onshore later this weekend. that's going to wreak havoc for next week as well. return trips home on sunday, not great either. let's talk about travel for today. delays likely in boston, new york, philadelphia. we slide to the west. this is usually the quiet area this time of year, we're looking at lots of rain in the west, los angeles, san diego seeing heavy arraignment even parts of the southwest, phoenix, you can see delays, albuquerque, snow in the higher elevations.

as we go towards later during the weekend, we're going to see some additional problems as well. so here is your thanksgiving day weekend forecast by friday, look at this. it's not letting up. heavy snow still in the rockies. looking at a pretty nice day in the pacific northwest. the place to be is in the southeast. if you're in disney world, good for you. the middle of the country looking at the potential for pretty terrible weather, strong storms and the southern plains. we'll watch that closely over the next couple days. >> michelle, thank you so much. we're just ten weeks away from the first contest of 2020. we will be live in iowa with new polling. some of the results might surprise you. mayor pete buttigieg facing backlash after saying he relates to african-americans because he's gay. what it could mean for his campaign. you're watching msnbc. for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th.

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(people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. we're just over two months away from the iowa caucuses, the democratic candidates are campaigning hard for a hawkeye state win. senators kamala harris and amy klobuchar both holding campaign events in the state today. south bend mayor pete buttigieg holds the top spot with 25% of likely democratic caucus-goers, indicating he is their first choice. former vice president joe biden comes in second with bernie sanders and elizabeth warren rounding out the top four. biden maintains his lead nationally in a quinnipiac poll out this week, up three points from october, followed by buttigieg, then warren and sanders.

joining me nbc news campaign embed priscilla, what's the strategy for heading into february's caucuses there? >> reporter: some folks are taking a break to participate in the turkey trot that just wrapped up. but politics is never far from the mind, particularly with the caucuses right around the corner. adds you mentioned, alison, pete buttigieg has been seeing a rise in the polls here. he's called them encouraging. he says moving forward he's got to focus on maintaining that energy and excitement around his campaign. one something we should expect to see, he'll be in the state a lot as he has been the past couple months. one thing to note, when he comes here he's visiting a lot of the obama-trump counties or heavily republican places. part of it has to do with his pitch to expand the electorate, to invite independents and future former republicans as he's called them into the party. the other thing he has here is his ground game.

he's got around 130 staff on the ground, nearly 30 offices, the most of any campaign. so he's prepared to capture that momentum as people are coming out to his rallies to meet him. he's hoping they'll turn out on february 3rd to caucus for him. >> priscilla, we're going to show our viewers some live pictures of senator kamala harris who is in iowa as we mentioned. that's the senator right there at the corinthian gardens senior citizens center. priscilla, the senator is in iowa today. what are you laerg about how much they'll be able to campaign in january? because that could be when an impeachment trial starts. >> reporter: yes. as you mentioned, kamala harris here, amy klobuchar here as well, going to be passing out meals in a little bit. cory booker was here yesterday doing a service project. i asked him specifically, are you here because you're concerned that you could be in an impeachment hearing in january and not spend as much time in washington. he says no, his focus is on showing his commitment to the

state and to the people here and the process. i think we've heard that echoes from senator klobuchar, senator harris and other senators in the race as well. one thing to note that everyone has said, today is about meeting voters where they are. part of that is, you know, these service projects, these are voters that aren't typically making it out to the town halls and the rallies. i was at an assisted living facility and a number of people said cory booker was the first candidate they had seen the entire cycle. they appreciated being able to share their feelings and issues with him. it really made a difference for them. >> priscilla, thank you for being with us this thanksgiving. as we mentioned, mayor pete leading in iowa polls. his campaign scrambling to address what's widely seen as his problem connecting with black voters. the mayor recently said his experience as a gay man helps him relate to the black struggle for civil rights. it's not going over too well with the crucial black voting

bloc. i want to bring in senior adviser to hillary clinton, phillip reen nas. julia manchester, political reporter for the hill. when someone is gay or lesbian, unless they tell or are seen in certain situations, then no one is going to know that. they're able to build their resumes, build their career. how fair was buttigieg's comparison and how politically advisable was it? >> well, i can answer the second one better than the first. as a caucasian head sexual, i'm probably not the best person to comment on how gays and blacks interact. he's polling at near zero. there's a problem irrespective of how you want to look at it. senator harris said there is no bias. on the second part, it's november 28th.

he's been running for months and months and months. we're having this conversation about this explanation for the very first time. from a political point -- when i say this conversation, i mean his explanation that he can understand it because he is a gay man. to me as a politico, that feels like something they came up with in the last week as they've just been trying in earnest to fix this problem. this doesn't seem like the ticket to resolving his low poll numbers. while he's doing fantastically and he's emerging in a lot of ways along for the typical democratic nominee, he's young, he's never run before, not a creature of washington, you're not winning this nomination without blacks, and i don't know how he gets past that. >> julia, philippe mentioned polling at zero% with black voters. one place that's happening is in south carolina. we know his campaign is starting a big push there.

what are you hearing about their plans in south carolina and any early reaction from voters to his comments? >> i think from talking to voters in south carolina, mayor buttigieg is not familiar with black voters and vice versa in the state of south carolina whether it's older african-american voters or younger african-american voters. i think this shows he hasn't been able to build an infrastructure down there. his campaign has focused almost exclusively on iowa and new hampshire. we're seeing him surge in the polls and surge in the polls nationally. however, they haven't paid that close of attention to south carolina. you're seeing the last-minute effort for him to catch up. looking at this from a more broad perspective, this is an issue mayor buttigieg has had to deal with for the duration of his campaign. after he announced his candidacy to run for president, there was a lot of criticism about the fact that his rallies it was a majority of white people. his staff is largely majority

white. then there was that killing of an unarmed black man in his city and his handling of that in south bend. this is definitely an issue that has constantly dogged him. however, i think he's genuinely trying to make inroads in this community and trying to sit down and talk with the african-american community. michael harriot and "the root" wrote that op-ed about mayor burg, his former comments in 2011 about that community. i think mayor buttigieg made a good move in sitting down and calling michael to talk about it and say, you know, essentially how he learned from those mistakes. >> i would just say the part -- we've been having the conversation and none of the three of us have mentioned biden, i don't think. there's a part of this where, you have to remember he not only needs to appeal to black voters

and win them over, he needs to pull them away from where they currently reside in terms of strong overwhelming support for joe biden. now, on the upside, if for some reason the black vote were to abandon joe biden or go to pete buttigieg because they like what they see, it's jump ball after joe biden. it's not like elizabeth warren is doing so gangbusters with that community. bernie sanders is doing better than he did four years ago. but there is a bit of a jump ball aspect there. >> i'd love to shift and talk about another democratic candidate. julia you have a piece out about form former new york city mayor bloomberg. what's his campaign's thinking here? >> reporter: i think his campaign is thinking in order for him to self-fund, they're going to push his message out like the super tuesday states in the south where he's not as well known and focus on other states

like california and new york where he is well known. i think this is kind of unc unconventional because he can't really compete in iowa and new hampshire because he's so late to the game. however, he's very much focusing in on these states that could have more of a play in the general election once he goes into that. they're trying to make him seem as electable as possible. putting out very much of a gamble at this point. in terms of the debate stage, it's interesting. i talked to some strategists who said it might not necessarily be a bad idea that he's not appearing on the debate stage because he won't have to face elizabeth warren and bernie sanders head on. we know they're trying to make him a foil as another white male billionaire running for president. at the same time, this could really rub a lot of voters the wrong way because they potentially won't see him as transparent in going to iowa and new hampshire and paying his dues there and appearing on the debate stage and going head-to-head with a lot of these

candidates. certainly an unconventional strategy. >> fillippe, your take on this? >> i've got to tell you, i think the strategy here would be that mike bloomberg just doesn't want to debate. i don't know why anyone would watch these debates and think, i can't wait to get in there. i think one of the benefits of being -- one of the many benefits of being the seventh richest person in the united states is you don't have to do many things you don't want to do. i frankly don't think -- the way he put it is simple, if he qualifies, great, he'll be there. if he doesn't, he doesn't. in the scheme of things, this is a risky unorthodox approach to winning the nomination. i think the bulk of that is skipping the first four contests and relying on paid media on super tuesday. a supp set of that risk is not showing up or not being part of the debates. i don't think that's make or break. i don't think he would do particularly well. >> thank you both.

thankful to have you here this thanksgiving. >> thank you, alison. >> happy thanksgiving. >> and you. more than half of all americans plan to shop between now and monday. we'll look at the astonishing amount of money that will spend this holiday season. you're watching msnbc as the macy's thanksgiving day parade wraps up right here in new york city. for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. non-gmo, made with naturally sundown vitamins are all sourced colors and flavors and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins.

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over 165 million people are expected to shop between today and cyber monday. a new survey finds with thanksgiving day so late in the month there are only 26 shopping days until christmas. usually we get 32. it is time to start buying. nbc's jo ling kent is at a walmart in minnesota with the latest on the busiest shopping time of the year. >> reporter: an estimated 56% of american shoppers have already started on their holiday purchases. if you aren't one of them, today may be the day to make your move. right after today's thanksgiving dinner, major retailers like best buy, target, cokohl's, and macy macys are open through tomorrow. are the deals the same online as

in the store? >> they absolutely are the same. sometimes they'll sell out but the deals are the same. >> reporter: with deep discounts of up to 50% off available now on electronics, tvs, computers, and smartphones will likely sell out fast. target is offering the lg 65-inch smart tv now for less than $500. you can order online and pick it up at the store between bites of leftover turkey. dell's laptops, at a discounted price of $500 and free two-day delivery. what's the best thing to buy this holiday shopping weekend? >> consumer electronics would be the way to go, you can take care of everyone on your list if you want. it's a great time to shop. >> reporter: amazon is rolling out black friday deals by the minute. some of the best prices, 50 to 60% off some printers and 45%

off streaming devices. one of best buy's steepest door busters, $500 off a canon dslr camera and 350 bucks off the samsung 70-inch 4k smart tv coming in at $550 plus free next-day delivery. >> you see how much joy people have. >> reporter: something to be thankful for now through cyber monday. we're talking about spending by americans of about $730 billion according to national retail federation. that comes out to about $1,000 per person. it's really a big number to watch, alison, really the online shopping number. that's expected to go up 14% this season. >> wow, that is a whole lotta spending. jo ling kent, thank you so much, happy thanksgiving. >> reporter: happy thanksgiving!

on this thanksgiving day we're especially grateful to our troops overseas, spending their holidays away from their families. they're being treated to a full thanksgiving dinner. we thank them for their service. you are watching msnbc. as a struggling actor,snbc i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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