fought for her life and won. >> that's all for this edition of dateline extra. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. tra. i'm craig melvin thank you for watching welcome to friday, a food coma, welcome to a post-thanksgiving day edition of "meet the press" daily, i'm chuck todd in washington, glad you're spending time with us and we won't bombard with you angry debate. we have an exciting hour ahead a fun one. focusing on what matters most. makes you think. focusing on you the voters. the upcoming presidential primary, and the impeachment inquiry, at the end of the hour,

it is about you guys, kitchen table issues as you celebrate the holiday with relatives and friends and a special look at an ambitious project that we're rolling out across nbc news and msnbc in counties that are likely to decide and tell the story of the 2020 election. and we are going to examine one of the most important trends right now in electoral politic, the suburban voter revolt against this president. and the issue that is consuming washington, and a collision course with ballot boxes everywhere, impeachment. i can only imagine what the conversation was like around your table but we've seen a parade of public hearings full of damming testimony but it has changed few if any minds in congress and the public. impeachment proceedings could seriously scramble the democratic primaries, multiple senators running for president who could find themselves in a senate trial rather than in iowa in january. as we saw with the russia investigation, voters are telling our reporters as they crisscross the country with the

historically large democratic group, still large, that the issue is not top of mind. here is a dispatch. >> reporter: iowa, democratic caucus-goers have ample opportunity to ask any questions and impeachment is rarely one of them. >> many voters say the impeachment process will play out however it does in washington, and when they see candidates in living rooms and backyards in new hampshire it is not the first thing on their minds. >> many believe the proceeding will end up hurting the dim ec par, democratic party in the long run. >> a lot of democratic voters are made up their mind on impeachment and they believe president trump should be impeached. >> a lot of voters say they should feel the president should be impeached after the mueller report was released and now they're focussed on the 2020 election and what will come after the president is no longer in office should he lose

re-election. >> voters think impeachment is important and they want an investigation to get to the facts, and they want to see the process play out, but when it comes to 2020, they're focused on issues like health care, climate, gun violence, and impeachment seems a bit of a separate issue for them. >> you got the point there, huh? i think we know. voters are thinking about a lots of things other than impeachment. at the same time, impeachment is not hurting these democratic candidates with voters at all. in the two months since the democrats began the impeachment inquiry, republicans lost control of the virginia state house. they lost gubernatorial elections in two red state, kentucky and louisiana. so there is a lot to chew on whether a republican or a democrat. and let's dive in, with nbc news capitol hill reporter lee ann caldwell. and michael steele and "washington post" college ummist, deputy editorial page editor ruth marcus. and ruth, it didn't surprise me to hear that from voters and i think the only thing i'm

concerned about in singling out voters who go to events, they're self selecting, and they decided, but what we don't know are the democrats not going to events and sitting back and waiting, but they too seem to be i would say passively for impeachment. >> sure. let's be clear. we know in america, among american voters, there's a very small segment of the electorate that is up for grabs and up for grabs segment of the electorate, they may be up for grabs between bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, but they're not up for grabs between those and trump. and so that is not a crowd, that's a crowd that is already, is one of the imbeds say, priced impeachments. >> i think all of them. >> the political landscape, they know their candidate, that's a given, that their candidate, more than medicare for all, it is a given that their candidates are going to be for getting trump out of office, but they also have priced in the political reality, voters have,

that their candidate, whoever their nominee, whoever it turns out to be is going to be running against donald trump also. >> and lee ann, it was interesting, the candidates, the last debate, was the day of gordon sondland's testimony saying yes, there was quid pro quo. perhaps the single most important day of the democratic impeachment investigation. impeachment naturally was the lead of the debate. here's how the candidates handled impeachment on the gordon sondland day. >> we have to establish the principle, no one is above the law, we have a constitutional responsibility and we need to meet. it but i want to add one more part, based on today's testimony. and that is, how did the ambassador sondland get there? you know, this is not a man who had any qualifications, except one. he wrote a check for a million. >> what the american people understand is that the congress can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. in other words, we can deal with trump's corruption but we also

have to stand up for the working families of this country. >> and i don't think it is a good idea that we mock, that we model ourselves after trump and say lock him up. look, we have to bring this country together. >> you know, lee ann, this question has been asked rhetorically, and simply going, if you believe the president as an existential threat to the country, so much so that he should be disqualified from being able to seek re-election, the presidential democrats are not on the same page as the congressional democrats. >> no, which is kind of funny, so as a congressional reporter, watching these debates at night and seeing that first question, it was mind boggling, i was not expecting them to lean away from it so much. it was really shocking to me. and our entire capitol hill text chain was in shock. but -- >> a reminder of bubbles. we all live in bubbles, capitol

reporters. we live in bubbles. >> yes. >> and elizabeth warren came out for impeachment months ago and that was a big moment. and then others slowly followed behind her. >> a big moment, because she wasn't doing so hot and looking for attention and looking to get her mo jo back a little bit and that's what she used. >> and so that helped her with the base. but politics are so tribal at this point, and so you have the progressive democrats, i mean democrats are pretty, it's baked on impeachment, they know where they stand, and i think that's why the democratic presidential candidates are trying to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. >> you know, the only disagreement was really whether we should chant lock him up or just hope he gets locked up. >> so it is not an issue in the, for primary voters, the president didn't really have a primary, democratic candidates tend to agree, willing it be an issue for the general election voters? and can we tell, if it is resolved in january, as we kind of tend to expect, senate votes

as we tend to expect, not to convict the president, not to remove him, by november? how much of an impact does that have on suburban swing voter, on the president's space, zblets we don't know what the sped up newspaper has done. there are so many controversies. you can't remember which one is which. ruth, two theories of the case, if he loses in a land side, we are all going to rewrite history and say the impeachment had a huge impact, the voters made a decision a long time, they were waiting. >> totally. >> totally obvious. >> or not. you know what i mean? but that very well may be the case. >> so i think your point about the speeded up news cycle is a really critical point. i was doing a show on the friday after baghdadi was killed on sunday. >> when did that happen, right? >> a different week? >> it was too late. that felt so old. it was a huge event. so old, five days later.

so how is impeachment going to feel more than five months later. like old news. but it will be news that motivates the base, if everything happens what is expected to happen, it will be news that motivates the bases in two contradictory ways. president trump will claim that he was vindicated. democrats will argue that he was impeached and there will be that middle that probably wants to talk about something else. >> i will say this. based on sort of what i think, what i think the white house strategy basically is, which is they don't ever want it see a senate trial, nobody wants a senate trial, i don't think the republicans want a senate trial at all but they got to act like they want one and so the question is, they're going to try to have this and try to blame the other side, each party will tri to blame the other side of trying to short-circuit this process and the question is going to be, does that fire up one bay or the other? on process? does the democratic base get fired up, the right gets more fired up on process, right? >> why is that? >> i don't know. >> you have a whole book about,

this don't you know? >> process arguments don't work. >> but they work with the base and the republican party. >> they motivate our voters. >> why? >> people who are particularly interested in one, fairness, two, particular issue, like protecting the right to an unborn life, protecting the second amendment, the process matters in those things in a way that it doesn't in a giant legislative goal like medicare for all. >> foes for those voters in the middle, for those voters in the middle, process arguments confuse them. that's the republican tactic. >> it is their own defense right now. >> and they think it is working. >> and getting emails from republicans on the hill, pointing to polling in the past week or so, that is showing that the numbers aren't moving in favor of impeachment. >> that's true. >> and also not moving in favor of the president either. i mean you know, one of the things here is the president may survive impeachment, but at what cost? he's got, you got on the record statements from defenders saying

he is too incompetent, or this or that the, steele, have you seen anything in the process that has been helpful to his re-election? >> sure. he will be coming out of this process assuming the senate doesn't vote to remove him, complete exoneration, from the rooftops and with the people he is trying to motivate, it may work. with the counter-factual what you just pos itted for the election result, we will say a huge mistake for the democrats to impeach him because it gave him the ability to claim vand cation. >> we go back to the data, if trump couldn't use the impeachment to rally more voters in kentucky and indiana, i do believe if impeachment was working at the ballot box in trump's favor, we would have seen it in two places. >> it won't happen until the senate trial when he can claim the complete vindication.

>> my point is i don't think it will ever happen, we will have a fight in the end with schumer and mcconnell never going to agree to the terms of what the trial will look like and each side will blame the other for being absurdly unfair and turn into a campaign issue for senate races. >> and the republicans know they don't have the votes to immediately dismiss the trial. so you have the moving forward. and you have susan collins up for election in 2020, that's who mcconnell wants to protect and that's why he has a little bit of incentive to let this trial play out. but we're also hearing that they are starting to strategize to figure out at the earliest point they might be able to take that vote to acquit the president. >> they want to do that, they do, the president says he wants to call witnesses. i don't think anybody else wants to call witnesses. >> but you can easily see a point if hunter biden is not there, it is a sham, is the republican line, and hunter biden is never going to come.

>> an interesting way. i think they will be able to say the other side is cheating on this process and we will take it to the ballot box. >> ann, michael and ruth, you guys are sticking around. and coming up, we're tracking what voters and candidates are saying is one of the issues that matters most to them in 2020. >> i care very much about this health care issue. >> health care. >> health care. >> health insurance. >> health coverage. >> medicare for all. >> medicare for all. >> medicare for all who want it. that last bit is really important. surprise!

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welcome back. campaigning on health care and protecting the affordable care act helped democrats run governor's races this month in some red places like kentucky and louisiana and help them win back the house majority in 2018 but for 2020, some of the top presidential candidates are using a different play book and focusing on overhauling the health care system completely,

the issue is front and center in the last democratic debate and always front and center on the campaign trails and we asked voters what mattered most to them and no surprise health care is at the top of everyone's list. and we will talk to julia jester one the new hampshire imbeds. >> every democrat i've talked to wants university health care, but it is just a matter of how to get there. in a state where more than 40% are independents, it is going to be important to draw in everyone on that issue. >> medicare for all has become one of the biggest topics of the 2020 election. between the candidates and voters. voters tell me sometimes it is deciding between putting food on the table and paying medical bills. >> many voters i speak with are nervous to support a health care for all, government mandated health care so in fears of it won't excite a democratic base to come out and beat donald trump. >> the thing i hear most often is access to health care a lot of people are very concerned

about medicare for all or a public option but many voters say that the thing that they are most interested in is ways to bring health care costs down, by reducing prescription drug costs and reducing premiums. >> well, our road warriors have been crisscrossing the country as well with the candidates for months. ally, in florida, and mike in des moines and monica alba here with me in washington. so mike, let me start with you. on health care. it does seem as if in the last three months, the moderates or the pragmatists are suddenly winning the fight over the progress eves. six months ago, the progress ives were winning, and medicare for all looks like it was on, now it does look like suddenly the biden side of the argument is winning the day. >> oh, chuck, in philadelphia, they're smiling very broadly right now because this is really the fundamental bet that the biden campaign has been premised

on since the very beginning. this idea that the democratic electorate is much more pragmatic and in the center in the joe biden lane if you will than you would believe if you pay too much attention to twitter and to cable news, and health care is really the number one issue on which the campaign has wanted to litigate that. we're in the headquarters of the biden campaign here in des moines, about to kick off the eight-day bus tour and shoe expect to hear health care, you should expect to hear health care quite a bit. in bide continue is in line with the views on governance and policy making and he announced what he calls on the stump biden care which is building on the affordable care act rather than tearing down as he calls the signature accomplishment of the last administration. and it is also the issue on which he can really illustrate the connection, what better way to tell voters i'm going to restore the obama legacy and restore the obama presidency, then by running on this idea of restoring and building on the affordable care act. and really, one of the only issues i can think of where they've gone after, on the offense, against elizabeth warren, saying this is a middle

class tax increase, what she is proposing, and that is really, i think what you hear a lot from biden and you will hear in the coming weeks. >> ally, it is interesting, the more you talk to voters about america, you know, they're not saying, they're not talking about medicare for all, right? they're not talking about a political legislative fight. it is interesting, you hear what our imbeds heard, i wish the price of prescription drugs were down, i wish i could have better access to this doctor, and, this but what they don't want is the whole system change again. i guess that is the one thing i seem to hear. >> that's true. i think there is this desire for across the board, wherever i'm traveling that i hear from voters that universal coverage is what they want which is good because that's the baseline, when you consider how far the party has come on that in the last ten years, that's pretty notable in terms of shift leftward that right now the baseline is universal coverage. but i think that for someone like elizabeth warren, and

bernie sanders, they're betting that, and warren advisers have said this to me multiple times, that people aren't in love with their insurance companies, but they're in love with their doctors, and so central to the elizabeth warren messaging on her plan is that yes, they have a way to pay for it, yes they seem to have batted back at least in their plan that it won't raise taxes on the middle class but they're just betting on the idea that in the way they transition to it they're slightly putting off getting rid of private health coverage and letting the system, the way that they think about it, bolstering the affordable care act, allowing a medicare for all public option and then in year three, push to go full medicare for all, no private insurance anymore. that's i think how they're trying to thread the need al little bit with voters. >> well, let me show you how elizabeth warren, monica, tried to sell her plan to implement the plan. right? she had to put out a second plan essentially to revise how to pay for medicare for all. take a listen. >> in the first 100 days i will

bring in 135 million people, into the medicare for all, at no cost to them, and every are everybody under the age of 18, and everybody who has family of four, income less than $50,000, and on a lower the age of medicare to 50, and expand medicare coverage, to include vic vision and dental and long term care and in the third year, when people have had a chance to feel it and taste it and live with it, we're going to vote and we're going to want medicare for all. >> now, monica, we still have a little fact checking and basically elizabeth warrening, 135 million people, basically the population of medicare and medicare, and basically all we have, we will put it under the same umbrella and call it medicare for all. >> that's what the other democrats running for president have been pointing to and asking a lot of questions of how exactly this plan would work and we have seen her more recently discuss it more detail after she was met with a lot of questions

and there was a lot of pressure on her to release that but i think that's what we saw in the msnbc debate, a little bit of this sort of ideological debate, on health care, but what i thought was interesting there wasn't as much of a pile-on, or as much of a clash on this issue. so have people stepped back a little bit to say let's wait and see and sort of as things shift, as we get closer because this is such a heavily debated moment in the primary, to discussing it. >> let me ask this. are we overestimating the importance of -- the voters want to hear you're going to fight for more maer, for more health . >> are we overestimating it's medicare for all. >> and i'm sure voters love to hear i have a plan for that, by elizabeth warren, i'm glad you have a plan, great, but the details are more complex and some are calling for that and others are more focused on the actual broad umbrella approach. >> mike, are the biden folks frustrated that it seems as if

democratic primary voters have forgotten how hard it was implementing the affordable care act. and some wings of the party, you guys took the easy way out. and does anybody remember what that was like? >> no, no, that's exactly right. if you remember, covering the obama white house, when they were trying to pass, that at the time, one of the most difficult parts of this is any, any idea of disruption, of disrupting the health care system, is really scary to voters and i think one of the reasons you hear biden focusing on this idea of building on the affordable care act is because he knows that, he can make that point, it was really hard to do that, and all of a sudden the affordable care act is the status quo. and so he is actually in some ways using what was the republican argument against the affordable care act at the time, against the proponents of medicare for all. the idea that this is going to be much harder than you think to get this done and people like what they have. >> so mike, and elizabeth warren is right, joe biden is using republican talking points to

criticize medicare for all? i'm teasing. >> well, he also then, he also of course will counter that, you know, he's been on the receiving end of those talking points himself but he knows what can get done. and this is a guy who spent more time campaigning in swing congressional districts and he has heard from voters and that's why they lean into the argument so heavily. >> alley, it is so clear that defending obama care is a net positive with swing voters, it's clear. disrupting health care is what scares swing voters. is it possible that elizabeth warren is the nominee that donald trump and the republican party become the party of obama care? >> look, maybe, i don't know, i mean donald trump has never really proven to me that he is wed to any one policy position, so for as long as i followed him in 2016, it was repeal and replace obama care, that hasn't happened in full and i in no way would be surprised if the position shifted because he is

not wed on policy. but i think democrats are aware this is a tough policy, medicare for all, to take into a general election, and i've been struck on the campaign trail, with elizabeth warren and amy cloeb ch klobuchar on opposite side was debate and they punctuate the same, and they believe democrats are the party of health care and they think republicans want to take it away and democrats are aware that republicans will paint this as socialism across the board so it doesn't matter exactly what the message is, democrats are aware of how they want to brand themselves though. >> no, very quickly. >> it is fascinating we go to the trump rallies, health care is not on the top of the agenda, he lumps it in as a socialism point of all of the democratic candidates but he's not campaigning on health care in any particular way heading into 2020. >> and he needs to learn how to do it because it may bey y-they blew it in kentucky and louisiana. thank you. keep up the great work. and stay safe on the trail.

up next, the political whirlwind of the next 339 days until election day. >> plus we will introduce to you the five counties that we think will tell the story of the 2020 election. and left a trail of bankruptcy and broken promises. he hasn't changed. i started a tiny investment business, and over 27 years, grew it successfully to 36 billion dollars. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message. i'm running for president because unlike other candidates, i can go head to head with donald trump on the economy, and expose him fo what he is: a fraud and a failure. - [woman] with my shark, i deep clean messes like this, this, and even this. but i don't have to clean this, because the self-cleaning brush roll removes hair while i clean. - [announcer] shark, the vacuum that deep cleans now cleans itself. more exciting than than getting a lexus... giving one. this is unbelievable! >>it really is.

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a few weeks away, one slightly less week than normal because of the late thanksgiving, hanukkah will be here in 23 days. christmas in 26. and kwanzaa 27. the super bowl won't be long after that. just 65 days from now. but there is not even time to let the nachos and dip set nal that horrible overnight cheese curdling, because that's when the real fun begin, the iowa caucuses are 66 days away, the day after super bowl when the packers win, that is of course the big 2020 event that kicks off all the others. the new hampshire primary is coming up in 74 days. the nevada caucuses, right behind it, just 85 days from now. and south carolina's big primary happens in a mere 92 days. that's not all. can you believe we're fewer than 100 days away from super tuesday. all of it will happen in the next 95 days and before you know it, we will be electing a president just 340 days from now. so mark your calendars get the date book out get your alerts

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xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing. welcome back, we're very excited about a new initiative here at "meet the press," we're calling it county to county. from now until election day, we're spending time, even more granularly than we normally are in five counties in five of the closest battleground states across the country, these places are going to tell the story of this election and a group of voters that will have a critical impact on who wins the white house, and we picked our five counties because they help tell different stories of the electorate and not all swing county, 50/50, some are red and some are blue but they all tell an important story. here is where we're watching, milwaukee county, wisconsin. there, we're watching the african-american vote turnout in particular, whether winds stays red in 2020 likely coming down to turn out.

and kent county, michigan. the establishment republicans in this traditionally gop area, the avatar republican might be gerald ford and home of the newly independent congressman justin amash and beaver county, pennsylvania, whether the president can sustain the working class vote. key to the 2016 victory. and in florida, cuban and venezuelan voters, how they're trending that could be the difference in flipping florida by half a percentage point. and maricopa county, arizona, very diverse county in a very independent state. if maricopa is flipping blue, the whole state may flip as well. joining me now is one of the brains behind our 2020 counties project, dante ching, a reporter ats in nbc news and "the wall street journal" and studies different types of people and places that make up america and back from one the counties that we're watching believer county, pennsylvania, dante, hello, sir. >> hello. >> as we know more and more,

counties have more in common with counties from other states than with counties within their own state. >> yes. >> which is why we do it this way. you just came back from beaver. that's a county that john kerry carried in 2004. >> unbelievable. >> by four points. >> yes. >> and now donald trump carried it by 19. >> these are the old labor democratic, shiny democrat guys. >> these are home blue collar democrat, reagan democrats and you're in a town, a river, a lot of towns around it, a steel mill closed and in al equipa, when the steel mill closed, 30, 40,000 jobs going away in the mid '80s. that's really impossible to make up but they're hoping trump can bring back some of the manufacturing economy they had before. they're getting a new plant, a cracker plant that will do a different kind of manufacturing. it is still not the same as what they had. >> it is interesting, so beaver county, which kerry carried, and

now that was basically almost a 20 point county, kent county, michigan in the same 2004 presidential, bush carried it by 20 points. it was the home of that wing of the republican party. >> yes. >> and this is a county that it will be a shock if trump wins it. >> yes, so the interesting thing is, you know, we always talk about michigan as a gaelgd state, we have for a long time and going democratic until 2016 and trump wins the state in 2016 and then as he does that, kent county, which is traditionally republican, the support drops. he lost ground. there unbelievable. so it is a perfect place we think to look at this kind of establishment. gerald ford republican. >> maricopa county. is there, is this the most, the swingiest county in the country now? >> it might be because the hispanic population there in particular, it is a latino population that has a lot of, it is a lot of strong mexican tie, very young. very young. so you've got people aging into voting there.

>> interesting. >> and at the same time, the counter weight to that, which is something to explore, you have older people retiring there, and you are moving from the midwestern reddish to purple states. >> so in maricopa in particular, you have these kind of two population inflows that are changing. >> of our five counties, is maricopa the one that you would say, as maricopa goes, so goes the nation? >> i would say this. if the democrats win mare co ma, maricopa, i think they win arizona and if they win arizona it is hard to conceive how they would win arizona and lose. but in 2016, yes. >> miami-dade, this is a county that the democrats will carry. >> yes. >> but the reason i was obsessed about putting this county hear and not just because i was born and raised there but it was the decisive county in the florida governor's race, and it was on the issue of socialism that turned just enough hispanic democrats who voted for hillary clinton to vote against the democrat and for the republican

in that county. it was a three or four point swing that literally was the difference in that race. >> and that word has a different meaning down there, right? >> it does. >> it really has a different meaning than on college campuses. >> yes. >> you've got populations from countries where socialism is not just something that you hear about in a college classroom, or people talk about in a coffee shop. it's real. it's very real. and it is very negative connotations and a place where that can really matter and i think you're right. i will say this is when you really wanted it on the list. >> i pushed it. >> but i will say i agree it is a place to watch. first of all, because it is massive. >> and unique. >> hong kong. we're not going to pretend that miami-dade is like any other county in the state of florida. it is the hong kong of florida. it is a unique thing. but if the republicans shave off any hispanic vote, i think it will be in that county. >> probably right. >> and finally milwaukee, the amazing stat on milwaukee, as milwaukee goes so do the democratic efforts and the two low turnouts in the last 20 years in wisconsin were 2000 and

2016, democrats barely carried in 2016 and they didn't in '16. >> the most remarkable statistic, a lot of remarkable statistics in 2016 but one, donald trump won the state of wisconsin with fewer votes than mitt romney lost it with in 2012 and it comes down to the vote, not turning out, for democrats in milwaukee. >> dante, thank you, brother. >> thank you. >> and thank you in vance for the work on this project. coming up, president trump is losing america's suburb, kent county, big time and it could be the single most significant trend in politics today. that's next. ificant trend in politics today. that's next. grandpa, can you tell me the story again? every family has their own unique story. give your family the chance to discover theirs this holiday season, with ancestry.

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one of most interesting groups of voters i speak to here in south carolina are the suburban women who voted for trump in 2016 but are looking elsewhere in 2020. many tell me they're still undecided, they don't completely align with any of the candidates in the field, but they're also unwilling to throw their support behind president trump again, in 2020. now, this is a smaller coalition in the state, but it is also a group i think to watch out for, as candidates work to build out broader coalitions. how do they appeal to, and try to win over some of the female voters. >> welcome back. that was our south carolina imbed jordan jackson putting her finger on one of the absolutely key things we're watching in 2020. she is there in south carolina, charleston and when i think of the suburbs and south carolina, it is what is happening in charleston that you're seeing

happen across the sunbelt, really across the country, american suburbs are changing fast. republicans are seeing advantages they used to have there go away. we saw this electoral realignment play out again this month when republicans lost ground in the suburbs in both the statewide and local races, even in races where republicans won, they lost suburban counties in mississippi that they hadn't lost in decades. and in virginia, democrats took full control of the state legislature for the first time in a generation. not because the suburbs of northern virginia, they finally won the suburbs of richmond and norfolk and those places. in kentucky, matt bevin because he underperformed in places like outer cincinnati. and suburban shift, away from the gop, and the trump era is shaping up to be one of the defining story lines with this 2020 election. back with me now is leeann and mike and ruth.

the upcoming book about the supreme court and brett kavanaugh. fantastic cover. it is rare that words, no, it is rare that the words, you don't have a photo and yet the words, it is a very compelling cover. >> it reaches out with the cover. >> and i'm sure that you did a great job with the words in there. how much of a galvanizing moment was the kavanaugh hearings do you think for suburban women? >> you know, the kavanaugh hearings and the political fallout from the kavanaugh hearings are really contested issue, because the biggest likely fallout was, it looked nobt senate, but the incumbent senators who voted against brett kavanaugh and lost were probably going to lose anyway. the most likely person who might have really hurt himself was indiana senator joe donnelly, but probably -- >> he lost by a lot. not a little it. >> but looking at the others, he is the one who you would sort of

think, well, maybe, might have been, so i think that the idea is it should be a galvanizing issue, especially for those voters, especially now, what this book is about is the 30-year battle that conservatives have undertaken to gain control of the supreme court, to have a conservative part. they finally have that with brett kavanaugh on there. they have five solid conservative votes. so what are the issues of concern to suburban women? yes, they care about health care. but they also care about things like reproductive rights, and there's a lot of concern in those suburban areas about things like gay rights. this court, this new brett kavanaugh court is going to help determine what that is going to look like in the years to come. >> michael, do you think your party's republicans, the suburban women problem, is more trump or more positional? meaning how much of this is

trump and how much of this is positions on gay rights and some of these -- >> i think it is largely trump. i think the party has evolved generally on gay rights. i think that this is why the democratic, this is why post-trump future is a very interesting question and a reason why the democratic nominee makes a big difference. there are a lot of people who are in these suburbs who are uncomfortable with trump but if you have a very left-leaning nominee, warren or sanders, they are not comfortable with trump but they don't want to lose their health care or the suv or the health care, or the 401(k), or the economy to go to hell and you can square them in at least, scare them in at least staying home if there is a very left-leaning democratic nominee. >> and these suburban women have decided to participate and in virginia, it is very easy, and the more moderate, it made a huge difference and that was powered by republicans, former republicans in the northern

virginia suburbs. have we seen evidence yet, the suburban women are going to vote in the primaries? if they do, suddenly michael bloomberg makes sense to me. he is the avatar for that but if they don't participate in the primaries i don't know if they will have as much of a role in shaping the nomination. >> interesting question. i don't know if we have evidence yet. you look at virginia specifically, virginia '18 election was a huge election. >> yes, that too. >> and the one that just happened. it keeps getting more and more blue in virginia, in these areas that, i mean, virginia is now a blue state, right? >> yes. >> but you saw nancy pelosi bring up the issue of guns again, late last week, early this week, she says drawing attention to the fact that the senator hasn't done anything, they will work again on gun, and that is an issue that suburban women really care women really care about. >> i'll tell you. i saw a lot of evidence in '18

in those suburban districts, the gun issue worked against them the 'the first time that it happened in a modern election. >> the transformation for guns where the republicans were in a duck and cover mode after the assault weapons ban and the '99 bill, now for doubly tragic reasons that we have had so many more terrible shootings and especially school shootings and also that congress has been unable or unwilling to pass, you know, broadly, broadly popular measures. it has transformed itself from democratic problem to democratic weapon. >> selectively. >> pardon the pun. >> it's not everywhere. they can't take that every where. but, look, you couldn't have that position and win the senate. >> it's still possible for democrats to overreach. >> long after we have forgotten who beto o'rourke is for any other reason -- >> you help people remember him. >> of saying they're going to

come take the guns. that's going to continue to be a problem for democrats. >> it does seem as if when we talk about the suburbs that essentially we're going to have unusual swing voter groups. everybody loves the soccer mom, the security mom, the office park dad, all that stuff. but it feels like in the trump era, it's based open the suburb, it's college-educated white women -- non colleged had educated white men e women and college-educated white men that those are the two swing votes sitting there, that the non college educated white women may be married who don't like trump. it will be -- to me, those are the groups that i'm most interested watching how they move throughout this. >> well, the college educated men, to mow, i mean, those are the romney republicans, right? and sob they'

and so they held their breath and voted in 2016 because they didn't want to vote for hillary clinton. getting back to your point, michael, that's white democratic nominee is critical. and that is why you have -- you're hearing from democratic donors freaking out a little bit. >> that's why michael bloomberg is jumping in. he figures if i get there, that's his base. and his base is those people. he's one of them, right some if he had been a -- not a billionaire, he'd have been a suburban dad. >> he's got a very progressive record to your point climate and guns, but a record of getting things done that's bigger than 40 states in the united states. >> but a campaign is not just announcing you're running. you have to have the organization and the years of putting in the work do it. i mean, maybe can he throw $8 million into the -- >> but he has to find a counc constituen constituency. and i don't know if they're ready to be voters yet.

>> you have to build the ground game. i was asking a democratic strategist the other day if you could choose to be deval patrick or mike bloomberg, which would you choose in terms of being better positioned? >> it's a no-brainer, right? they went with the money? >> nope. that's why i'm telling you, that was not answer i got. >> really? the guy that can get two people to show up at -- >> this conversation was before the two people, just sharing. >> okay. deval patrick three years ago would have been president of the united states. i do believe that. but these days, i think it's a little late. but or rk but, okay, that's interesting. up ahead, we're going to go for a spin. ahead, we're going to a spin. they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins. all clean. all the time. ♪needs somebody

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elliott. you came back!

welcome back. planes, trains, and automobiles are on integral part of many people's thanksgiving and holiday travel has we obsessed about where we are as a nation in an iconic image that captures our national mood. the '80s had the collapse of the berlin wall, but how about now? what portrays our national mood that the moment? with holiday season upon us i think it might be this. when a catering cart at chicago o'hare's airport started driving by itself in circles in reverse.

when you think about it, does that say it all about how we are all feeling these days? like we are all stuck in the wrong gear with nobody actually at the wheel, as you can see. careening wildly out of control. we're not going forward. we're not going backward. we're just sort of running around back and circles stuck in a cul-de-sac repeatedly flung out by the debris. and our wearing ourselves out as the world stands idly by waiting for some knight in shining armor to ram us back into reality. did i happen to mention the cart kas w was from american airlines? that's all for tonight. thank you for spending a little bit of time with us over the holiday. from all of us here at "meet the press," we wish you a very happy wednesday evening and hopefully i'll see you sunday. happy

wednesday evening and hopefully i'll see you sunday. on this special edition of the 11th hour, we talk about kim jong-un's brutal regime in north korea, to the brazen heist in this century, and the raid that took down bin laden, all of it as this special edition of "the 11th hour" gets under way. greetings once again from our nbc headquarters here in new york. we are at day 1,044 of this trump administration and we want too take you stlou throu