in london, we are following breaking news. multiple people stabbed and injured in a terrorist incident on the london bridge. that suspect was shot and killed by police at the scene. a witness described how the whole thing unfolded. >> what did you see? >> we heard from our office some shots fired and what it sounded like shots and looking out the window the entire bridge was sealed. the police was there and carried what looked like injured people off the bus. >> how many shots were fired? >> we hear it was eight but we don't know. >> assume eight? >> whether theirs or the police we don't know. >> police say they're treating the incident as a terror related attack. emergen earlier london mayor called the attacker the worst of humanity and said it would not divide london. >> i'm mayor of the greatest city of the world and our strength is diversity and we do

know that flothere are people w hate the diversity. the message not just to londoners, to the visitors to the city and around the world is we are resolute. we stand united in the face of terrorism and we'll not allow anybody to divide us. >> joining us now from london, nbc news chief global correspondent bill neely and former special agent and contributor jim cavanaugh. bill, can you give us the latest? i know it's still touch and go out there. >> reporter: yeah, good afternoon, katy. you will hear an alarm going off behind me and it is still a crime scene here. the police still in place. the blue flashing lights. this incident began at 1:58 so lunchtime in london when the streets were packed, when police responded to reports of a

stabbing in a building. by the time armed officers got to the scene, the man had moved from that building, having stabbed a number of people. we think at least five. he was then tackled by very brave members of the public, by passers by, bystanders who wrestled him to the ground on london bridge. one managed to take the knife, a very large knife, from him. he then opened his coat and at that point there was a bit of panic because it appeared that he had some kind of suicide vest on underneath the coat. in fact, as police later said, this was a hoax explosive device. one man continued to wrestle with the suspect. armed police arrived at the scene. they pulled the passers by off and then fired at least one shot and that suspect, the man died at the scene.

as you mentioned, police are now treating this as a terror incident. there are disturbing reports that some of those, maybe one or two, of those who were injured, stabbed, have died. nbc news cannot confirm that but there are reports in the british media which we have not confirmed yet that one or two of those who were stabbed have died. as you said, mayor of london has spoken of the passersby, the bystanders as the best of humanity. the police will dig into the man's background. it is thought he wasn't on any terror watch dllist though that an early finding. they're digging into family, friends to try to work out was

he a lone wolf? did anyone else know that a attack was eminent? who was he and why did he do this? the police at the minute saying that the motive for his attack is unknown but clearly a very, very disturbing incident here in the middle of a national election campaign. of course, not first time that an incident has happened near london bridge. two years ago at the market there was a knife rampage in which six people were killed and just down the river at westminster bridge, a knife attack and shooting with a terrorist killed outside the houses of parliament. an all too familiar scene here, katy, for lon dodoners. >> it is unusual for the british police to fire on anybody. a lot of the police do not carry guns. what can you tell us about the scenario here, the officer that had a gun, using a gun?

what is the significance of that in the uk? >> reporter: well, i mean, famously, british police are unarmed. very, very different from the situation in the u.s. where in most cities police, of course, are armed. but in recent years, more and more police officers have been given firearms training. there is a specialist firearms training, firearms unit. there's anti-terror police. so, you know, it is not like it was 20 years ago when a policeman with a gun in the uk was a very, very unusual sight. we understand that the armed officers responded very, very quickly to this. again, london is very used to terror incidents over decades and in the last few years, of course, in and around central london where i am at the moment. we think they did respond very quickly. again, the motives of this man absolutely not known. we don't know his identity.

we don't know if he's british. we don't know anything about him except that he was carrying a very large knife and he had dressed himself in a fake suicide vest. obviously, you know, he did that with some intent. when anybody would see a vest like that, they would move back, give him the space to do perhaps whatever he wanted to do so in his mind he was buying himself more time by wearing this but, of course, he was also attracting the attention of police and when a police officer sees a man with what looks like a suicide vest, there's only one thing that police officer is going to do and that is neutralize the man. >> we can see that in the video that the video we were able to show a moment ago of the man on the bridge, it does seem there are a number of people that run in the opposite direction when potentially they realize he could be wearing something. jim, a number of smaller scale

lone wolf terror attacks in france, in the uk, over the past few years, how do police officers -- how does law enforcement adjust to this? how do you prevent against this sort of terror? >> well, there's no absolute prevention totally. you try to interrupt it with intelligence, tips, help from citizens. you know? good detective work and ultimately some of them come down to, you know, the last point before the attack where armed officers and citizens, brave citizens, are going to confront the terrorist. that's still going to happen in our future. they need to get a bucket of medals in london and hand thm out to citizens, especially that one guy bloodied holding the terrorist down believing he had a bomb, probably trying to hold his hand from the detonator. the way they usually use them is

they have a button, maybe a button on the front of their vest or even up their sleeve coming out the sleeve and they have a button they can push. likely the citizens when he opened the jacket saw that, saw the button, trying to keep his hands from it. that's when the armed firearms officers from the city of london responded, three officers you see come up quickly and jump the barricade with the long guns and they pull that citizen off. bloodied in the back. as soon as the assailant sits up, he's shot immediately. probably in the head. only choice in f the police have. they could all be killed if he hit the button. >> jim, thank you for joining us. bill neely from the scene. still ahead, the president made a surprise trip to afghanistan. and he also says he's restarting talks with the taliban. later this hour, 2020 contender williamson joins me live from

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earlier today president trump returned from a surprise trip to afghanistan. it was his first visit to the combat zone and against the backdrop of troops the president made an unexpected announcement. he says negotiations with the taliban are now open once again.

>> the taliban wants to make a deal. we'll see if they make a deal. if they do, they do. if they don't, they don't. that's fine. >> president trump was short on details and what those negotiations might look like is still unclear but you will recall it was back in september when a previous attempt at an accord went sour. the president floated a possible camp david meeting to broker a deal with the taliban and then called it all off on twitter. remember, it is almost an election year and according to a next guest, the president could be looking for a foreign policy win, something that he can campaign on. joining me now, "the new york times" white house correspondent michael crowley and medal of honor recipient and military analyst colonel jack jacobs. first off, the president going to afghanistan and making this announcement about the taliban, was this something that was preplanned or is this something that he just announced out of the blue? was his staff aware of it?

>> well, katy, you never know for sure with this president but i was actually on that trip. we just landed in florida this morning and i got back to d.c. a couple hours ago. and his staff gave us no indication that something like this was coming an we asked white house press secretary on the plane on the way over is there a political component to this trip and gri sham said this is about supporting the troops and saying happy thanksgiving and, you know, showing that he is there for them. it was very surprising and i will add that subsequent reporting from correspondent in kabul shows the taliban seemed to be surprised by this and not clear whether what president trump said is an accurate state of negotiations with the taliban and call serious negotiations right now and people are kind of scratching their heads trying to figure out what did he say, mean and what's going on? >> you said it could be for a

foreign policy win to tout in 2020 campaigning? >> very much so. that is president that talked about doing deals and getting america out of foreign co coconflicts. we still have, you know, several hundred troops in syria in basically a combat mission. not a lot of big break throughs to point to. his talking points are limited right now and an nounouncing a with the taliban and say he's bringing the american troops home in large numbers is something he would like to brag about on the campaign trail. >> is this something the united states can get done with the taliban? >> well, i think you got it, one, the united states can't do it alone. a major participant is the afghan government and the

afghans have already said they're happy to sit down with the taliban and preconditions. mo among them, cease fire. >> until the u.s. is gone, at least, right? >> exactly right. now, the president of the united states would love to take all americans out of afghanistan. we're not getting anywhere. it is difficult to control. much of the control. the president of afghanistan only controls a relatively small part of the country, including kabul kabul and not much else. no one's brought parts of afghanistan under control for generations and the president would like to bring the troops home but i think nothing will come of anything if we pull troops out because the taliban and the kabul government are not going to sit down without the united states. so campaign ploy probably sounds

exactly like what it is. >> when americans hear that we are negotiating with the taliban a lot of them would think why? it is a terror -- had been a terrorist organization or it's perpetrated terrorist attacks. and responsible for brutal acts in afghanistan. why negotiate with an organization like that? how can you? >> well, i mean, we have done it before. all governments have negotiated with reprehencible actors on the other side. sometimes it's been successful and sometimes not. i think the thing to remember here is whatever else we do with the taliban, whatever agreements are made with the taliban, once we leave things are going doto entirely different and the government of kabul will have to deal with taliban and other actors in the eastern part of -- have to deal with them by themselves.

i'm not saying that the american presence there is keeping the wolves at bay but though we may leave not much is going to change quite frankly and what we are doing now is to train the afghans to defend themselves. we haven't made a lot of progress in the last decade or so. >> colonel, michael, thank you very much. still to come, 2020 candidate williamson joins me from the campaign trail in iowa to talk policy. the very real proposal to help make the food supply safer. next, though, we take you back live to london where authorities say an act of terror was carried out on the london bridge. wayfair's biggest black friday blowout ever is now on. yes! score unbelievable savings. like living room up to 70% off. storage solutions from $9.99. and area rugs up to 80% off. plus, tons of limited-time mystery flash deals. and free shipping on everything

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♪ thank you sofi. sofi thank you, we love you. ♪ back now with the latest on the breaking news out of london where police shot a man suspect of stabbing several people. a number of people were wounded but we don't know the exact number or the conditions at this time. moments ago we heard from uk prime minister johnson who spoke to reporters after the attack. >> the metropolitan police are continuing their investigations,

and i can assure you and assure everyone that anybody involved in this crime and these attacks will be hunted down and will be brought to justice. >> joining me now from london, nbc news foreign correspondent erin mclaughlin. we heard from bill neely saying that the press reported deaths. nbc has not been able to confirm that. what do we know at this time? >> reporter: well, at the moment, katy, it seems that life here is getting back to normal. just moments ago, i was standing right next to the police kcordo. that's pulled back that way. the london bridge whether where the attack happened a third of a mile away. the investigation, though, is still ongoing. motive here at the center of investigation, authorities say they don't know why this man carried out this really chilling

attack although they're saying that they believe that it is a terror incident. why they think that is unclear. what we do know is on the body of the suspect after he was shot and killed at the scene after stabbing a number of people there was a hoax bomb device found and social media posts really telling this story, really chilling videos posted by passengers on board a london bus that was crossing the bridge shows a man tackled to the ground, seemingly by ordinary people at first and then you see police with the guns drawn open fire killing the suspect. they have yet to identify the suspect, perhaps we're going to get more details. the scotland yard is expected to give an update shortly. >> erin, thank you very much. next up, next wednesday the impeachment inquiry will enter the next phase. the house judiciary committee

tasked with drafting articles of impeachment will hold the first hearing and reports of the president's aides and allies don't believe he'll take the chairman up on a trump lawyer to defend him at the hearing. perha perhaps not a surprise the president attacked the integrity of the entire impeachment inquiry as a sham. joining me is political contributor jake sherman. jake, the president has called this whole thing rigged. he hasn't been able to defend himself. what sort of process is this if i can't defend myself? why would the administration not want to take the chairman up on the offer to have his counsel there? >> to defend himself as he's been asking to do for months? >> yeah. >> it's interesting they think at this point that trashing the investigation and saying it's crooked, untoward, improper, is the way to win in the mind of the public. i think the white house -- listen. the white house has very little strategy here. you can't really nail them down on anything but they do think,

understand the president's going to be impeached by the house and mostly likely acquitted by the senate. everything up until then in the president's mind and white house's mind is stage craft and how do they manage the stage craft? if they allow democrats to own this hearing they believe that's the way do go and we'll see because basically the -- if the president had decided to have a lawyer in the room they would be able to ask questions of every single witness that was before the committee and now they don't have that opportunity. so we'll see how that plays out. >> is it because the witnesses are not fact witnesses? not fiona hill again, it is not the foreign service diplomats that were on the hill last week and the week before. this is going to be academics, people like constitutional lawyers. >> yeah. that's right. it is mostly a history lesson at this point. especially next week. next wednesday is going to be a kind of an almost primer on impeachment and what impeachment

means and the bar for impeachment and the president would be -- i mean, listen. a lot of people's estimation republicans are split on this. there are plenty of republicans who want a more aggressive and robust counter programming to democrats and those who just want to ignore it. i think we'll see the wisdom in the ignore it approach next week. it is not ambassador sondland, it's academics with nothing to do with this case and figure to leave it to the republican tons committee to defend the president. >> thank you. >> thank you. with tightening qualifications for the debate, she has proposals to improve the food supply. she'll join me next to discuss that and what it takes to earn the black vote. stick with us. i'm finding it hard to stay on top of things

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they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins. all clean. all the time. make family-sized meals fast, and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. the ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away. two months after the iowa caucus, the democratic primary field is not getting smaller. in fact, the pool of candidates is expanding but as the criteria to qualify for the debates becomes stricter, what becomes of the candidates who have not made the cut? joining me now from iowa, 2020 presidential candidate and spiritual author and lecturer williamson. always good to see you. >> good to see you. thank you. >> you have been living in iowa. how are you speaking to voters there and what is your strategy

to get enough of them to support you in the polls to get you back on the debate stage? >> i don't think in terms of strategy to get back on the debate stage. michael bloomberg is now in the race an not on the debate stage. it is the reality tv show. that's all that it is. what matters is the conversation that we are having with the american people. and some of the most important conversations certainly i'm having are not on the debate stage and when you ask about iowa, one of the most important conversations is agri-business to the u.s. farmer. throughout the society, health insurance companies or big pharmaceutical companies or gun manufacturers or oil and gas or defense contractors, it is as though a corporate aristrocracy has rupted the government and hijacked the value system and nowhere is it more destructive than in iowa because what's happening is a devastation of the u.s. farmer, a devastation

of the land. we have farmer who is are committ committed suicide and bankruptcies. it's poisoned our food supply. it's contaminated our water because of all the animal factory farming and the agencies set up, years ago, the government would be protecting the farmer but since the 1970s and '80s the government in this area does more to advocate for and protect the corporate overlords than advocate for the u.s. citizen so what you have is a disempowering of the agencies, in this case the food and drug administration and u.s.d.a. and the president is actually dismantling some of the power of the u.s.d.a. because the scientists coming up and the economists coming up with results that do not match the president's pro corporate policies are moved out of washington. >> let me -- >> this is an area where -- >> i think that you're making a

lot of solid points and one of the reasons i wanted to have you on to talk about this is because of the answer you gave on one of the debate stages. you were talking about agriculture and our food supply and how it is not being addressed like you are right here and why i wanted to talk to you about it. you have an agriculture plan. you say you want to increase food inspeng or thes, support small and local family farms. double the value of s.n.a.p. benefits. a lot of food stamps did not allow you to buy fresh produce. they're not valuable enough to buy fresh produce and stuff like that. ban advertising of junk food that targets children. revamp animal cruelty farms. why do you think that you are the best candidate to address these issues? >> it's not i'm the best it's that i'm the only candidate addressing these issues and i'm

the only candidate talking about the connection of these issues to health care. we are having a conversation about health care that treats the symptom and not the cause. if we tack about root cause, we have to discuss why are americans so sick? why do we have such a higher level of chronic illness in the country than other countries of comparable wealth? and the reason is because of the contaminants in the water. because of the carcinogens in the food and the toxins in the air all of which go back to oil and gas, chemical companies. >> how do you push back against that? if you were the president of the united states and you were competing in the field of ideas and washington with the power of lobbyists, the power of big corporate donors to presidential campaigns, to senatorial campaigns, congressional campaigns, do you fight against that? >> that's why you need someone like me. i'm not part of that. >> the rest of the people in washington are part of it.

>> that's kind of my point, isn't it? first of all, you start with the secretary of agriculture. right now sonny perdue the secretary of agriculture is a total pro corporatist type saying if you're not big, get out. this is a pro corporatist government and talking about a pro corporatist government people need to understand what this means. there's a virulent strain of capitalism. not capitalism itself. i'm pro callist. that is strain of capitalism that's corrupted the government, gained control ever since the 1980s. and what it does is to make short-term profits for corporate stockholders more important than the u.s. citizen. we are not a government of the people by the people and for the people anymore. we're a government of, by and for the huge national -- >> do you reform campaign finance laws? >> teddy roosevelt. >> do you ban lobbyists? >> yes. because that's the cancer underlying all the cancers.

the undue influence of the corporate money on our government is the cancer underlying the other cancers. we know it is not reasonable to think that citizens united is going to be overturned any time soon and we can have federal funding, federal funding of all -- public funding of campaigns and the first legislation i would submit and we need an amendment. until we get the money out of politics, that's the dirty poison underneath all of this. >> one fun question before we go. and i'd love to have you back on. i read the biography of you in "the new york times" and i thought it was brilliant and brought more attention to you in a serious way you were not getting before that, at least on the political stage. at the end of her article, though, she says this. i'm very curious. she leaned forward and said something beautiful about the way the universe restores order to itself. it was filled with the kind of

words that start memes. she asked it stay off the record because it did what it was supposed to do, girlfriend. which is that it helped me feel better k. you tell us what you said? >> i'm not sure what i said to her that day but you know, katy, as well as i do, that any time i start talking about things from a larger, more expanded philosophical -- so i don't know exactly what i said to her but i do tell you this. if i were to do it again i would tell her print it if you want it. those that don't like it i'll talk for as long as i can. >> mary anne, good luck out there in iowa. >> thank you. thank you. and happy post-thanksgiving i should say. coming up, the appeal of pete buttigieg coming up right

now. he compares it to president obama and where obama built a coalition of young, diverse and progressive voters, buttigieg is older and white and may explain how buttigieg is mocked off the obama track. joining me now author of "what truth sounds like," michael eric dyson. good to see you. buttigieg is having a tough time with an article in "the root" a column about how he just didn't get it coming to black voters. he spoke to that author and the author said that he listened to him and he was able to explain his concerns. buttigieg is a popular candidate in iowa right now. he is a popular candidate in new hampshire right now. he is not a popular candidate in south carolina. how does he overcome the problems he's facing with black voters in a place like south carolina? and then throughout the rest of the country.

>> well, i think he's got to continue to do the outreach that's a principle to outreach. reaching out to mr. harriet to "the root" after a scathing piece on him. he wasn't defense. he reached out to him in honest conversation seeking to forge better understanding and to explain his position and also understand where he had gone wrong. he'll have a lot more of that to -- ahead of him if he's going to make a way in south carolina. but what's interesting and among black voters more generally. what's interesting is the perception is that even though he's tacking toward the middle he's not had an especially effecti effective outreach. not only because there's progressive among that number including myself but there are many more who are, you know, more conservative in the middle who are more moderate, who are waiting for a candidate to understand the needs to address

them particularly as african-american people with influence and also to understand that even if they have conservative cultural values they tend to vote more progressive because of the historic legacy of inequality, racism and bigotry on the right and something to be said for trying to get inside that vote rich demographic and do something extraordinary. >> seems to be a divide among -- not a monolith but a divide among a lot of black voters, the older black voters skewing more towards joe biden and the younger black voters skewing more towards elizabeth warren, bernie sanders. more progressive candidates talking about up ending the system. night addresses the black vote in an article from a couple days ago and one person said, you need to focus on things beyond relating to me. this is an activist. i want to tuck about the stuff that affects me. what are you going to do for me? a 53-year-old atlanta-area

barber said if i had harris or booker that sounded like bernie sanders, of course i would choose them but they aren't discussing the issues he's discussing. he added. so i'm going to have corey booker on in the next hour and ask him about this but just address that issue and explain why black voters who are at least skewing progressive are locking towards people like bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, people who are advocating for fundamental systemic change. >> right. well, a couple of things there. first of all, african-american people have never premised the vote on pig. . it is not about the color of the skin. they didn't go for obama until he won iowa when he was running in what? 2008. so african-american people want a winner, somebody who's got the chops to be able to succeed in the sweepstakes to gain the presidential -- to get the

presidential nomination, number one. number two, there is a divide in black america, at least along those two axis. if you're centrist and middle of the road, then, of course, kamala harris and corey booker will capture your imagination. if you're far more progressive, elizabeth warren or bernie sanders is going to capture your imagination. and there's work to be done. one cannot rest upon the laurels of race or ethnicity and the great booker and harris understand and know but on the ground i think that there is this tremendous generational division between those who are far more woke and capable of independent assessments of candidates predicated upon their own litmus test and what is the litmus test? are you progressive? are you speaking of interests that deal where i am? fundal change in the political

system? on the other hand, those who tack for joe biden understand that joe biden is there over the long haul. seen the sun rise and seen the sun set and still remains and their commitment to joe biden is the past and hung out with obama and enact the policies with the possibility to win in the direct facedown with donald trump. >> biden's campaign will tell you he's going to south carolina for decades, it is not just a one-off thing for him. michael, thank you for coming on. >> thank you. i'll talk about my jay-z book out now. >> let's do it. 99 problems but that won't be one of them. that's my go-to lyric of jay-z. sorry. talk to me about fish. >> all right. >> michael, thank you so much. climate change has led to widespread wildfires and rolling blackouts across california. scientist mann joins me with how to reverse what he calls the

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conflict conflict with california's most historic fires. what years ago -- >> square in the middle of tubbs fire. >> reporter: last year and this year. >> it was my turn to get caught. i lost this and my main ranch. >> time to go! >> reporter: in california fire season is not just a season but constant. the state's deadliest fire as well as the most expensive and largest fire both occurred last year. records don't last long here. this winds inside the kinkaid fire clocked in more than 90 miles per hour. >> we packed up our house and our son -- >> reporter: amy and marshal have been battling the fires more than two decades. as the climate changes, so, too, do the fires. >> we are seeing hundred thousand acre fires multiple times a year sometimes. it's much different from when i started 20-something years ago. >> reporter: what is the power shutting off affect your ability

to fight the fire? >> electric gates, garage doors, any other thing they need power for. >> p&g is expected to cut power to 800,000 customers. >> we don't have power, folks in rural areas don't have water. >> i can't help but think it's overreaction. >> they said warm and windy conditions is higher risk of the equipment sparking a fire. >> that's frustrating an got to be a better way. >> p&g as we know it cannot persist and continue. >> reporter: did search for culpability is a visceral one inside this state. many including the governor are quick to blame the utility company that runs power to the majority of the state pacific gas and electric. >> this is not a climate change story as much as a story about greed and mismanagement over the course of decades. >> reporter: while recent investigations have found the company's equipment likely responsible for starting nearly

2,000 fires in the last 5 years, the search for responsibility has at times turned ugly. >> things have been thrown at folks. lives threatened. >> reporter: more and more people in the state liing in wild areas that are also high risk fire doans called the wild land urban interface. >> in 2012 about 15% of our service area which is 70,000 square miles considered extreme or elevated fire threat. this year as of 2019 more than 50% of our service area is in that elevated or extreme wildfire threat. >> reporter: after the deadly fires in 2018 the company filed for bankruptcy citing debt in excess of $50 billion. making challenge of improving fire safety in a state battling climate change that much more daunting. >> it's not all p&g's fault. state of california should have been cleaning this out a long time ago. and instead of waiting until hell breaks loose and blame it on p&g.

>> reporter: p&g calls this systems hardening, the idea to replace the more vuler nbl pieces of equipment but also to keep the trees back a safe distance from that equipment. the company says by the end of 2019 they will have hardened more than 150 miles of line but the goal is to harden more than 7,000 miles of line in the next 10 years. it is a large electric company in the position of citing climate change as partly responsible for the disasters. >> we are out in the field an it seems like more and more of the responsible is environment climate related s. that true for p&g, as well? >> certainly over the last few years we have seen a change and unpress departmented in unprecedented weather conditions and fire conditions across our state. it's hotter. it's dryer. weather events. wind events. there's more of them. and unfortunately, with some of

the weather that we're seeing and the winds, mother nature wins. >> that was cal perry reporting. joining for us now, distinguished professor of atmospheric science. he is also the author of "the madhouse effect." michael, always great to see you. i thought what cal said at the end there was really interesting. climate change is forcing an energy company, forcing an electric company, to admit that part of the problem why their lines are breaking, why they're sparking intense fires, is because of climate change. that's a big deal. >> yeah. katy, it's good to be with you. so, you know, it's easy for us to sometimes fall victim to what's known as the single-cause fallacy. that it's simply land-use patterns or our fire suppression techniques or climate change that are leading to these unprecedented wildfires. it's all of these things coming together in, if you will, a perfect storm. climate change, you know, when you look at the different

factors that are involved. scientists have determined that climate change is responsible for at least half of the increase in the area that these wildfires burn. the intensity of these wildfires. how fast-spreading they are. so there are a number of factors. there are lots of things that can spark a fire. start it in the first place. but they're getting bigger. they're spreading faster. and they're doing more damage because of climate change. you know, you take heat. you combine it with drought. it's not rocket science. you get worse wildfires. >> the u.n. just came out with another climate report and it said emissions must drop 7.6 per year to get in line with the paris agreement. you -- you say that there are some quick wins to get that done. what are they? >> yeah. so first of all, it's sort of interesting. it's a year later. a year ago today, i was on msnbc talking about the latest climate report. government climate report that the trump administration had tried to bury by publishing it on black friday. and that actually led to it

garnering far more attention. and the impacts that that report detailed. the unprecedented wildfires and heat waves and floods and superstorms. well, that hasn't gotten any better. what has happened is it's a year later and we haven't brought our emissions down at all. we've actually seen an increase in carbon emissions globally. now, we've got about 300 billion tons of carbon dioxide that we can afford to put into the atmosphere before we commit to more than warming of -- of a degree and a half celsius, close to three degrees fahrenheit, where we see the worst impacts of climate change. that sounds like a lot. 300 billion. but here's the thing. we're adding about 40 billion a year. so if you do the math, we've got less than a decade to bring those emissions down dramatically if we are going to avoid committing to these truly dangerous and irreversible changes in our climate. but there is some low-hanging fruit. you know, you ask about the -- the easily-achievable wins. let's put a price on carbon. there might even be bipartisan

support in the next congress for some sort of measure to put a price on carbon. so we incentivize this shift away from fossil fuels to -- towards renewable energy. you know, it's black friday. a day that celebrates consumerism. well, part of the solution is, of course, us consuming less. being more responsible. >> what does that do for the economy, though? i mean, there are people who will say, hold on, you can't sacrifice the economy for the climate. that's part of the argument that many people make against trying to change for climate change. obviously, that's a short-sighted argument. but talk to me about -- but -- but address that issue. >> yeah. so, no, exactly. and the reason we need a price on carbon, which is what i was about to say, is because there is real damage that's being done every time we burn fossil fuels. and put climate warming, greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. and right now, fossil fuel energy gets this unfair benefit

when it comes to the energy marketplace. where it's doing damage to the planet. and that damage isn't monetized. we're not requiring fossil fuel interests to pay for the damage we're doing. a price on carbon takes that into account. $80 billion of damage done by these latest wildfires. hundreds of billions of dollars a year in the u.s. alone. more than a trillion dollars of damage worldwide done every year by climate change. the cost of inaction, of not doing something about this problem, is far greater than the cost of taking action. >> so we are almost a year away from the -- i guess the -- the end date for whether we actually leave the paris climate accord or if we stay in it. it -- it -- it'll happen the day after, i believe, the next inauguration. if donald trump wins and is inaugurated and officially does pull us out, what path does that put us on? >> yeah. well, that, you know, puts us on

this path that we've been on. where we have been not living up to our obligations under the paris accord. at a time when we actually have to go beyond paris if we're going to achieve the reductions we need to avoid catastrophic warming. so donald trump is taking us exactly the opposite direction. dismantling all the climate protections that were put in place by the past administration. there is a certain amount of inertia in the system and what that means is we can withstand one term of a trump presidency. good news here is less than a year, we have an opportunity to go to the voting booths and elect a president who will allow us to regain our leadership. internationally when it comes to tackling the greatest threat that we face as a nation and as a people. >> michael, is there a candidate you like? >> i'm not gonna take sides at -- at this stage in the election. what i can tell you is that there is literally nothing that

could be worse for the survivability of our species and the planet than another term of donald trump. and anybody else would be an improvement. let's listen to the various plans the candidates put out over the next year. >> good thinking. michael mann. michael, thank you so much for joining us. happy black friday i guess. >> you too, katy. always a pleasure. >> in our next hour, senator cory booker joins me here on set to talk 2020 politics and his strategy to become the front-runner. but right after this break, the famous london bridge is now the scene of another terrorist attack in europe. stay with us. rate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, month after month, the clock is ticking on irreversible joint damage. ongoing pain and stiffness are signs of joint erosion. humira can help stop the clock. prescribed for 15 years, humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.

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