that's it for this hour. stay where you are. it's time for "up" with david gura. >> this is "up". i'm david gura with new details this morning on impeachment. members of the house intelligence committee will review a draft version of the committee's report tomorrow. they're going to vote on it on tuesday night. and the intelligence committee will pass the baton to the judiciary committee.

its first public hearing is wednesday. overnight, republicans pushed back on who is scheduled to testify. during that hearing, president trump will be an ocean away in london for a nato summit. with election day in the uk right around the corner, prime minister boris johnen so, a friend of the president, wants to keep the president at a distance. there is a battle of the billionaires. mike bloomberg is spending tens of millions on ads. so is tom steyer. pete buttigieg is criticized for comments he made in 2011 about kids in lower income minority neighborhoods. as he struggles to attract support from black voters, he goes to church this morning before morning worship, the reverend william barber will join me. ned price, a special assistant to president obama. now he is an msnbc analyst. christina greer, beth couey and

kyle cheney, congressional reporter for politico. kyle will be up for the next round of impeachment hearings, the first scheduled for wednesday. underpinning that is a report by the house intelligence committee. its members will see a draft tomorrow. it will be put up for a vote tuesday. we're paying attention to a couple of deadlines put in place by jerry nadler. president trump and his attorneys have to decide whether or not they want to part in the proceedings. one deadline is today for that wednesday hearing. another one is friday. president trump, as i said, will not be in washington while all of this is unfolding. he is heading to london. saturday he tweeted i will be representing our country in london at nato, while the democrats are holding the most ridiculous impeachment hearings in history. read the transcript, nothing was done or said wrong. the radical left is undercutting our country.

hearings scheduled on the same day as nato. congressman doug collins writing to ensure fairness and restore integrity to the ongoing impeachment process, i request an expanded panel and balanced composition of am demmic witnesses to opine on the subject matter at issue during the hearing. setting up a senate trial on trump's removal early in the new year. kyle, let me start with you. the pa ton is being passed here. walk us through what is going to unfold the next few days. >> sure. so we don't know a ton yet. except we get this first hearing on wednesday, which will feature a panel of experts on the constitution to talking about did what the president did regarding ukraine meet the threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors that warrant impeachment. so it's not going to necessarily be gripping television, but it

is sort of what democrats see as a protect requisite, if we're doing this, let's show that what the president did crossed the threshold that warrants removal of house and recommendation of impeachment. >> beth, this has moved very quickly. we went home, had turkey, thanksgiving dinner. the democrats on the committee writing this report. fast work. thiss moving at a quick pace. >> yeah. you can see that the democrats leading this, certainly nancy pelosi at the top, want this to move as quickly as possible. it is not something they can draw out forever and ever. they had the tight schedule of two weeks of hearings where the fact witnesses, all of whom came up and told an extraordinary story, each to a person, building up that case that the chairman of the committees nancy pelosi can present the evidence quickly after everybody has, you know, been recalling it from seeing those hearings despite what republicans said or wanted,

drew a large viewership and move to the next phase, coming up with articles of impeachment. they're working on this incredibly tight deadline. we have to see this get done before congress adjourns. the president election starts in ernest in 2020. six senators are running for president on the democratic side who will be jurors in the jury trial in the event that of course the house impeachment does go through. so there is a lot of factors here driving this timeline. >> difficult for them to participate remotely. you had all of these fact witnesses, a lot of people watching this. as kyle is saying ulle have this hearing with non-fact witnesses, with academics. there is the potential to slow -- no offense to act dem ee academics but to slow down the momentum. you see them talking about the precedent for this. it does stand to slow things down, doesn't it? >> possibly. we talked about the pizazz factor. the issue is this, it doesn't

matter if it's sexy tv. this is the u.s. constitution that we are trying to defend. yes, the timeline seems as though it's crunched. but we had this conversation when nancy came out to the american public in september and said we need to actually have a conversation as a nation. and so now we are radio ig to finish this up before the end of 2019 before obviously the full 2020 election cycle gets into play. but this is necessary. this isn't a vanity project on behalf of the democrats. this is a real question and conversation about was there corruption? so many crimes. the democrats are really actually -- the tension that exists between the two is one faction of the democrats say let's just focus on ukraine and possibly the corruption and miss deeds there. and others are saying, we have had so many crimes. do we focus on ukraine, other phone calls, other norms and institutions that the president has possibly broken or breached. so we have to figure that out in a short period of time. there will be academics to

assist us in walking us through that process. but it is an important process to go through even if it seems a little tedious, boring to the american people. >> quickly here who we might expect to be there on wednesday. we have no idea who the witnesses will be. why the secrecy? what indications do we have and when we will learn who the witnesses will be? >> i imagine we will learn the next day or so. they have to provide around three days' notice. i think it is because things are so fluid. i think we will learn in short order. they may be entertaining expanding the panel. >> ned price, back to the mueller report that i mentioned. >> yeah. >> what do you make of that? certainly if you look at obstructive behavior, it seems from reading that from chairman nadler to the president, there

is an interest of doing that. obstruction of justice. obstruction of congress as well. there is a volume from which to draw. >> there is literally a volume 2. we learned something interesting from one of chairman nadler's letters to the white house, laying out three things. amos-long effort, efforts to cover that up, third, efforts to obstruct the investigation into the mueller probe. and i think that's especially important. for so long we have heard, which i think are justifiable calls to actually knit these two things together. there is a common thread. it is placing the personal interests of the president over our national interests and national security, using all the leverage of the office, including the authority of the president of the united states, and the american resources, the american taxpayer resources to solicit foreign interference in

our election. i think it is totally appropriate. i also think pulling in the obstruction thraeead from the mueller report is the right one to do. you have to remember, when candidate trump called upon russia to hack hillary clinton's emails, when his campaign and his associates held these suspicious meetings with the russians, candidate trump was then candidate trump, a citizen. when he was obstructing the investigation into this, he did that as president. to my mind, it makes sense to bring in all the malfeasance, all the potential wrongdoing he conducted as president, to look at that in one coherent impeachment hearing. >> you see as you watch these public hearings the fact that that was a learning experience just the way these hearings were conducted. they were different than the mueller hearings were. what are the dangers of expanding this probe? it was funny to me watching the

last two weeks how it was republicans who wanted to keep engaging with bob mueller. >> right. because the mueller report to them or certainly the way it was portrayed was an exoneration of the president. >> yes. >> as you point out, ned, it was clear from mr. mueller, he said congress needs to take this up and pursue impeachment around the issue of obstruction. because at the time it seemed like that was the end of the story, the democrats were not going to bring it up. it seemed like a done deal. this fuses a whole lot more fire there for this probe. but to your question, i think nancy pelosi has been struggling with this. and we know that there are some differences of opinion among democrats over how much to bring in this. is there a tarpbg to just sort of throwing everything that trump does out on the table and say let's prosecute this or not. it's a legal question, political question. there are differences of opinion among the leadership up there. it seems like what chairman nadler is describing is discreet

and focused. whether it should go further than that seems less risky. >> the constitutional undertaking of all of this, the need to communicate that to the american people what's happening here. talk about lessons learned from mueller and all of that. this is paramount. >> right. >> if democrats want to go ahead, introduce articles, they have to effectively communicate their case to the american people. who is going to do that and how are they going to do that? >> i don't know. democrats have been terrible on messaging. i was thinking about the mueller report. before we even read or saw the report, bill barr comes out and says, oh, i will give you a quick two-page summary of my thoughts and set the pace and the tone for the entire discussion henceforth and forever more. if they are going to market their ideas, they're going to have to do so. and i think some democrats are a little concerned because the way representative schiff conducted

his televised hearings was very different than the way jerry nadler did. so now that we are back to jerry nadler, democrats are concerned because of the optics. nadler didn't have that forceful, i would say offensive narrative. and so we are in a state where if the democrats don't get ahead of the story and explain to the american public how this affects them and their daily lives and their pocketbooks. this is still american taxpayer money we are asking foreign entities to corrupt another nation and potential u.s. american democrat ic presidentil candidate. so offense is the word of the week. >> all right. politico's kyle cheney from washington, i know you're busy this week. appreciate your time. up ahead, mayor pete

buttigieg in goldsboro worshipping at the reverend barber's church. first, the news is bad when a nato summit is more appealing to the president than what's happening in washington. president trump goes to london. even close friend boris johnson wants to keep him at arm's length. arm's length exibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said... i got this. usaa insurance is made the way kate needs it - easy. she can even pick her payment plan so it's easy on her budget and her life. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa 1 in 5 people you meet wear yeah. that many! but right now, is not the time to talk about it. so when you're ready, search 'my denture care'. poligrip and polident. fixed. fresh. and just between us.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. president trump will be in london this week for a nato

summit. news on how nato is funded, something the president cares a lot about, we know. and what are called common costs. the "new york times" reports as he did the last summit meeting in july 2018, the host has reason to be worried as well. president trump's past visits to the uk have been fraught with protests. with election day around the corner in the uk, prime minister boris johnson's party members are concerned. what they worry about the most is trump will go off script. one official confided this was the biggest risk facing the operation. the president can't be stopped to weigh in on ill-judged comments, they said. ned price, let me turn to you, first of all. there was a piece in the

economist. he talked about the state of today. what we are currently experiencing is the brain death of nato. this is a ceremonial meeting. it is important to have all the heads of state there, including the president of turkey. >> nato is facing internal challenges. challenges that are coming from the president of the united states. focus on defense spending of the allies instead of the emerging threats that nato has to be attuned to, including the rise of china, russia, which of course has shown aggression in recent days. i think what prime minister johnson will be focused on first and foremost is keeping president trump on script, as they said. and by on script, that probably means not offering an endorsement or kind words for boris johnson himself. there's nothing that probably frightens the prime minister

more than kind words from president trump about 10 days before a general election in the uk. . >> beth, we remember well this interview the president gave to the sun the last time he was in the uk. he did weigh in. i will read a little bit from "the guardian". from the is arriving late on monday night, leaving the president free time on tuesday before the palace reception for bilateral interviews. >> he spoke to nigel on his radio show not that long ago. he loves to weigh in on british politics. it's the rise of boris johnson following the rise of donald trump, they are happening in tandem. brexit was a leading indicator that what was happening there may happen here, this populist revolt in terms of what populations are seeing in terms of immigration or other forms of economic fear. at the same time, boris johnson has tried to keep distance from trump.

even though trump is open in terms of how much he likes him and how they have a common bond. in order to hold this country together, to keep it on the path he wants it on cannot look like he is donald trump's mini me over in england. he needs to stand on his own two feet. it is smart that he is keeping this distance. >> i read the tweet once. but the president relishing the split screen. yes, there is going to be stuff happening in washington while he's away. he sees this as a way to look presidential, rubbing shoulders with other leaders around the world. . >> he is usually the kid sitting at the table himself while others are are having real discussions. he will most likely do what he does every time, which is sit in his hotel room and watch fox news and tweet about it. that is traditionally what he has done when he's abroad. the reason boris johnson wants to distance himself, especially

at this moment in time, in europe, there is a certain very visceral feeling people have toward nazis. we are not saying donald trump supports nazis but nazis in america support donald trump. for boris johnson to be seen in any way, shape or formal lied with donald trump does not look good for him in his own country. when the president tries to flex his political muscles with all the other leaders there, we talked about this before the show, we are segal lies move away from him, macron move away from him. merkel is at her wit's end with this particular president. he doesn't have friends, confidant confidantes, people to have side conversations because they see the damage he has already done. >> let's take a listen to what he had to say explicitly on a radio station in the uk. >> we have very close relationships and friendships

with the united states at every level of government. . >> well, that's interesting. >> but what we don't do traditional traditionally is get involved in each other's election campaigns. and i'll just remind you, nick, one of the cardinal moments actually of the referendum campaign in 2016 was when barack obama turned up. and weighed in on the side of romaine in a way that was not entirely conducive to the good of that cause. >> historical analog i wanted to ask you about. this is something that other presidents wrestled with or had to engage with. . >> i love that line, loving allies and friends. i think there is not a whole lot of love in the united kingdom for president trump. vladimir putin had a higher popularity rating over donald

trump. of course putin is someone who worded a wmd attack on a russian dissident there. 1 in 10 uk voters believed an endorsement from president trump would help the cause. and as prime minister johnson alluded to, that is a shift, however, from previous u.s. presidents. when i was working for president obama, president obama was called by the then british prime minister to come to the uk ahead of the brexit vote to campaign for the romaine. of course that didn't work out in the end. >> right. >> but it goes to show that american presidents tend to have sway on the world stage. this president has sway, it's just pushing in the opposite direction. >> the president will fund raise over there. this is a novel thing. not a lot of things presidents do when you go overseas. you have to have a passport at the door. >> yes. he's fund-raising from american

citizens presumably. it is not the typically done. it is for state craft not for politics usually. >> all right. coming up, a candidate struggling to get support from black voters. reverend barber will join us when we come back. oi jn us when we come back. [ applause ] thank you. it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. i love you! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ non-gmo, made with naturally sundown vitamins are all

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saved my life. saved my life. what we do here at dana-faber, changes lives everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. this is "up". i'm david gura. the race for the democratic nomination is in many respects unchanged. former vice president joe biden still with strong support from black voters. south bend mayor pete buttigieg has been surging, rising to second place in a number of polls of early states. with less than two months for the iowa caucus is how they can build a coalition of vote

stories take on president trump. pete buttigieg is in north carolina for a service at the green leaf christian church in goldsboro, william barber's church, leading the poor peoples campaign. he will have a conversation with mayor pete about poverty and in equality. reverend barber joins us now. i want to be clear first of all, about what's happening here. those see this cynically as he comes to this church. wants to meet with you. he intends to attend the worship. he will be there with all the parishioners. you had a great line in your announcement. we're not going to stop having audience with the king to have a presidential candidate. he will be there worshipping with everyone else. and then you will gather across the street for another conversation. walk through what will happen. . >> first of all, the mayor is coming here, as we have invited all the candidates.

we are the only movement focused on poverty and how we bring together people of every race, creed, color, and sexuality to address poverty in this country. the church is at the center of that movement. the issue is poverty we will be talking about. 140 million poor people in this country. 43% of this nation. that is a moral crisis. 66 million of them are white. 26 million are african-american. poverty, the issue of addressing poverty and the interlocking injustices around them. we are open to worship for everybody. afterwards right here, not across the street, we will have a conversation with a diverse group of people about how we address the issue of poverty. a third of all the poor people live in the south. a third of all poor white people live in the south. dr. king said years ago the only group that could deal with that

is when black approximate white people came together to address the issue of poverty and they would always sow division. >> do you plan to talk with mayor pete about the comments he made back in 2011? indeed, they were about poverty at least to some degree. there are a lot of kids, especially in the lower income minority neighborhoods, who literally haven't seen it. that being education work. there isn't somebody they know personally who testifies to the value of education. is that something that you intend to talk to mayor pete about today, what he said then? >> the poor peoples chains an agenda to deal with the issue of poverty. systemic poverty, you must deal with systemic racism, ecological devastation in health care, you must deal with the war economy, and you must deal with religious nationalism if you're going to

address the issues of poverty. that's what we're going to be talking about. sure, every kid, every person in this country having the right access to a constitutional high quality diverse public education is a critical issue when we talk about addressing poverty and funding public education. we're going to focus like a laser on the issues in the poor peoples campaign. we traveled from kansas to the carolinas, appalachia to alabama. we are a movement bringing people together. this is not a limited conversation just around black. we deal with systemic racism in the context. for instance, in this state we are a voter suppression state. those same states, if you look at their records, once the persons get in office, they use that power to pass policies that hurt the poor.

and iron kraicallronically, it turning the whites in terms of numbers and black in percent. 140 million people is a moral crisis. it is a moral crisis. it has to be at the center of theology. at the center of our deepest religious conviction. it causes us to establish justice. there is nothing just about 143 million people living in poverty. we will focus on that after the worship service. >> you have been successful building a coalition, broad diverse coalition focused on this issue. try to get different constituencies together. what is your counsel to a candidate trying to do that.

how do you get folks from different backgrounds to come together to rally around some of these critical issues? >> well, first of all, you have to have what we call moral analysis and look at the issues around poverty that are what we call interlocking injustices a that hurt the totality of a country and develop policies that show how you will positively impact all of those persons, particularly as we talk about poor and low wealth in this country. we act as though there hasn't been fusion coalition before. civil rights movement was a fusion coalition. dr. king built the poor peoples campaign. people wanted to limit him to being a black pastor, saying he was out of his space. he said no, the issues are racism, positive and a call for revolution of moral values. that's what we need in america today. 143 million people living in poverty. millions of people without

health care in this country of every race, creed, and color. finding a way to speak to all of that, we did it successfully in the poor peoples campaign all over the country. that's why we said all candidates come. we have had 32 debates in this country since 2016. 143 million people living in poverty. 600 and some odd people every day. and not one debate, not one debate focusing on poverty and systemic poverty in this country. we cannot have that kind of debate, that kind of ignorance and ignoring of an issue that is not on the margins. we see republicans too often racialize poverty. democrats too often run for poverty. we have to deal with the reality of poverty and the interlocking injustices that keep it alive in our society. >> last question here. you have an open invitation

inviting all the candidates to meet with you and worship with you. how would you characterize the issue of poverty with economic in equality. are you cheered by the conversations you have been having with people like mayor pete who will be there today? >> in the summer, we had a moral political -- moral poverty action impact in washington, d.c. ten candidates showed up. his scheduling just didn't work. people were standing together. people from kentucky, as well as, say, from the carolinas standing together. black and white, young and old, gay and straight, latino and native. we developed a budget. we asked every candidate would they support a major debate on the issue of poverty. they all said yes. we want to see that happen. we want them to continue to push for that. we cannot ignore these issues. we just cannot -- if we are serious about the heart and soul

of this nation and so the poor peoples campaign, people can go to it, google it, they can go to our website, we have an audit of america after the poor peoples campaign. and we have a moral poverty justice budget. we know where the money is. we found the money. people are lying about you just have to raise taxes. the money is already available. we do not have an in sufficiency of money. we have an in sufficiently of morality. we are saying candidates stop running from poverty, stop racializing it, stop using euphemisms like the working poor and people who are trying to make it into the american dream. 143 million people live in poverty and low wealth. there is not a county in this nation where a person working a minimum wage job can afford a basic two bedroom apartment. you have millions of people who

are just $400 away from a major catastrophe in their life. that's not a marginal issue. it is an issue that should be at the center of our political discussion. and if we only deal with middleclass and wealthy and we do not deal with the poverty and low wealth like what i just saw in kentucky where we organized the poor people's campaign brought people together, where we have seen being in the deep depths of this issue, then we have failed. it is morally indefensible and constitutionally inconsistent and economically insane not to deal with the issue of poverty as an american crisis. >> reverend william barber joining us an hour and a half before worship begins. up next, suspended by twitter, social media responds to an attack on ilhan omar by

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this is "up". i'm david gura. one of president trump's favorite topics is ilhan omar. democrats have accused the president of trying to incite violence ahead of the lawmaker.

opponent banned from twitter after suggesting she should be hanged. she said violent rhetoric leads to violent threats and ultimately violent acts. let me get speed on what happened here. it happened quickly. this decision to ban this republican candidate happened rather quickly. >> it's amazing actually that twitter allows the kind of bilge that it does. it is good that it took steps to curtail this. she is in a district that is democratic. if anybody challenges her, it will be another democrat. she looks strong. she will not face anything significant on the left. so a republican trying to grab some attention in minnesota, unfortunately it's not surprising this would be the way to do it.

frankly, because we have seen so much assault and attack from some conservative media outlets on the squad. omar, cortez, rashida tlaib, they have been a focus on what many on the right are trying to do, make them the face of the democratic party. you know, women of color. in some cases, women who are muslim. so it's not surprising that this level of animosity has built. unfortunately, you know, someone in this case an opponent of hers decided to grab the attention and take it one step further. it doesn't address the central cause, which there is this vitriol. >> the president has talked about her as this sub versive

character in radical democratic politics. she has a certain ire because she's black, a woman, muslim, former refugee, and she's successful. all of those things. but in many ways the squad did represent the face of the democratic party and they do represent the face of america. i mean, there are different ideologies, they're native born, refugees. aoc is from puerto rico which is the united states but the president gets a little confused, but it is. what worries me, though, is ilhan omar gets so many attacks coming from the president of the united states all the way down. she is a mother. so she's trying to do her job as a representative but she's consistently being -- i mean, you know, we know that women of color who do pun it dtkepunditr

attacked. for omar it is above and beyond what many have seen. twitter is trying to curtail that. i think it is a win. a small win, but it is a win to kick someone off twitter for that type of language. >> i'll give you the last word on this. there is something to remark on here. the twitter account was suspended permanently. she was able to go on facebook and defend herself as well. it highlights an economy we have seen. how they have approached issues like this. >> it does. it is a pattern we have seen before where one platform will take action, go to the next, go to the next. they will end up in the nether world of the internet. there is a double standard at play here we have to address. if the president of the united states were to make remarks to this, and frankly he has come close to previous tweets, it would be allowed. because twitter deems them newsworthy. the fact that this candidate was kicked off i think is an

isolated incident. it doesn't speak to anything broader than this. but the broader point here is that these say something about where the republican party is. the fact that a candidate running for representative omar's seat for the republican nomination would think that this could be politically advantageous to cite baseless allegations speaks to where the discourse has gone. there are legitimate disagreements to be had across several areas, yet she didn't go there. she went somewhere else. >> thanks to all of you for joining me here. coming up, an update on the slow-moving snowstorm making its way to the northeast. making its way to the northeast (kickstart my heart by motley crue)) (truck honks)

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look at this. syracu syracuse, up to a foot of snow by monday average. for new york city, a good coating up to three inches. >> thank you very much. janessa webb. coming up in the next hour, one of the billionaires will join us. a vote on his impeachment report by tuesday night, paving the way for the next round of public hearings before the judiciary committee. heblic hearings before t judiciary committee. we made usaa insurance for members like kate. a former army medic, made of the flexibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said... i got this. usaa insurance is made the way kate needs it - easy. she can even pick her payment plan

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this is "up". i'm david gura. and this is president trump who will spend the first part of the week in london for a nato summit. he will be out of town for what promises to be a busy and consequential week in washington. lawmakers will get their "first look" at the report prepared by the house intelligence committee after two weeks worth of public hearings and more than a dozen closed door depositions. that committee scheduled a vote tuesday. it will move to the judiciary committee. jerry nadler. the impeachment process is entering a new stage and the judiciary committee is

responsible for synthesizing what's in that report chairman schiff reports. it could include obstruction of justice, obstruction of congress, abuse of power and bribery. they have on multiple occasions invited the president and his legal team to participate in the proceedings. he said he can take this opportunity to be present in the impeachment proceedings or stop complaining about the process. no formal decision on that yet. the president has not finished complaining about the process. up with me here in this morning, robert costa with the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst. maya wiley, msnbc legal analyst. brian lehr show, a podcast by wnyc, and peter baker, chief white house correspondent msnbc political analyst. let me start with you and get us

up to speed on where we are. metaphorically speaking this is a passing of the baton. help us understand the import of the next few days. >> the import first comes with regard to the timing. speaker pelosi is trying to move this process forward out of the house intelligence committee in the hands of chairman schiff, into the hands of chairman nadler. he has been somewhat on the sidelines in recent weeks. now he is in control to explain the impeachment process to the american people, to have hearings on the history of impeachment, the intent of the founders and then to draft the articles of impeachment. it will be fascinating to watch the scope of those articles, including obstruction of justice, abuse of power. we have seen speaker pelosi use the phrase bribery. what exactly will be in the articles, a lot of that will fend what moderate and liberal house democrats want as they

head into 2020. not only the case against president trump, but what do they want to articulate to the voters through those articles of impeachment. . >> peter baker, what do we know at this point? a number of letters that jerry nadler sent to the ranking member of the committee. he talked a bit about the direction this might be going in. what do the tea leaves tell us about what we see in the coming weeks. . >> you're not going to see the president's lawyers at the committee. i don't think they are likely to send somebody up there. i don't know that a final decision has been made. they think one of the advantages the president has is complaining about process. they will say this was always a hoax, witch-hunt. sending a lawyer up there to pretend this is somewhat a real fact-finding mission is against our interests. they can do that in the senate. assuming that there is going to be a house vote on the floor along party lines, will go to a senate trial. the president can decide at that

point to participate in the process where republicans are in charge. they can argue at that point that the rules set for by mitch mcconnell are ferrer to the president, gives him a chance to articulate his point of view, give voice to his defense, take on his accusers. so i don't think you'll see much participation by the president. now, that doesn't mean he won't be saying from the outside as you pointed out with that tweet. we will hear a lot from the president during the next couple weeks as we get to the final showdown on the house floor. it probably won't be in the hearing room. >> what is going to be different? what are you watching for in the difference between these hearings and the ones we have seen? i sat down with the democratic caucus and said, this is about a week or two ago. is chairman nadler being punished for the way that went with corey lewandowsky. was he sort of maligned or punished as a result of that? how will he accommodate what's changed here as we move to the next hearings? >> first, i would say it would

be unfair to think about jerry nadler in that way, as bad as the corey lewandowsky hearing was. it was how to make the hearings more effective. that's often the way it happens. it made sense for it to be in-house intelligence committee given the primary issues in the ukraine scandal were fundamentally about national security. this is now the house judiciary committee playing its appropriate role. remember all the previous impeachments we have had of u.s. presidents had a special prosecutor doing the investigations. we did not have that in this case. so i don't think we should think of it as a punishment of jerry nadler. on the other hand, though, what i will say is i would be listening for and hoping for on december 4th is a clear explanation of the evidence that shows that this was about the personal gain for donald trump over the national security

interests of the country fund 34e7 mentally, right? many parts came forward over the last three days of hearings from the intelligence committee but also from other pieces of evidence that didn't all necessarily get put together in a very clear package for americans who aren't watching it constantly day in and day out the way we were. so to do that is, i think, a critical part of explaining to the american people why, from a constitutional standpoint, this is so important and so unusual. because not one of the other presidents who have been through an impeachment process were being impeached for sacrificing the national security of the country. peace in europe for permanent gain. >> do you look at this in a linear fashion? and i look at that letter that doug collins wrote to jerry nadler. historically the committee called on a robust slate of

academics representing scholastic viewpoints to expound on the removal of a duly-elected president. i think she is talking about making this clear. you had adam schiff tying it all together at the end. here we have a bit of a diversion. we are getting to the heart of it, how the impeachment process works. but in communicating that to the american people, something is lost by phoemoving off that fac. it might take away from the case itself. >> i'm not even sure it's a diversion. i see this very much in a linear sense. i feel like the intelligence committees were in a way a trial of donald trump. all of this came out about what he did. there was this plot for months and months. gordon sondland and everything. now they are going to the sentencing phase in a certain respect. is what he did bad enough to warrant the ultimate punishment

you can give a president,ism impeachment and then eventually removal from office? so i feel like what nadler will do with academics is not merely academic. they are starting to lay the groundwork for what is the appropriate punishment for what everybody pretty much gets at this point that he did. >> peter baker, you have been weighing into the history. a great piece in the times. how this played out in the past. there is something plastic about this process. there are elements that give us a broad description of what's supposed to happen. there is a lot of determination that some of us have at this point in time. what can we learn from history as you look at nadler and schiff, what have they gleaned from the way this proceeded in the past? >> one thing is certainly adam schiff has, you needed to move the process forward. one thing the democrats were clearly worried is getting lost in a muddled process that dragged on and on. that wasn't the way chairman

schiff ran his intelligence committee process. you know, he did depositions, put up public hearings. now a report already about to be looked at and voted on by tuesday. boom, boom, boom. that's one of the things that have been disappointing in chairman nadler have not seen up until september the same sort of clarity and efficiency of the judiciary committees investigations on various subjects of president trump to this year. you have to create a narrative. you have to create an understandable story line for the public, make sure they understand what you are accusing the president, why it is important, why it rises to the high level of an impeachable offense. that's what the next stage will be about. they laid out the facts. we will get what they understand about them. they know what they think about them. the question is does it rise to the level where you use the president of high crimes and misdemeanors and put them on trial in the senate. >> you do so much work talking to lawmakers.

i want to gauge how they regard the seriousness of this. to ensure fairness and restore integrity, the word restore indicating it's a process that can be restored. they are acknowledging that in a way they weren't in the course of the intelligence committee hearings. now that we have reached this stage, are you getting any sense that they are dealing with this, thinking about this in a different way a than they were two, three weeks ago? >> the republicans are reckoning with it. if they are reckoning with it, they are usually doing so private live, not publicly. look at congressman collins of georgia, a trump ally, ally of the president. he is in line to be appointed to for senator isaacson. he is angling to be in the president's good favor. you have kevin mccarthy to mitch mcconnell, who is a close relationship with the president on confirmation of judges and other administration appointees. they have all bought the ticket. they're taking the ride with president trump.

and i was always looking in recent weeks for cracks in the gop when i was up at the capitol, notepad in hand. but there really aren't significant cracks. there are a few retiring republicans like will hurd of texas. maybe senator romney of utah, a longtime foil. we haven't seen that yet either. >> maya, on that note, i said what are you looking for in the course of these proceedings? what are you looking for surrounding them? are there lawmakers you are paying close attention to? are there minds to be changed within the room itself? >> i think this is beyond the hearing room. we are in a political process now. and i say that as an attorney. and i think i agree with the elegant framing that brian laid out. the reality is this is about whether you can bring more of the american public along. this isn't how the house will vote on articles of impeachment.

this is a question of whether you will move any senators in the senate and that is about voters in those states where those senators serve. and that means that it's really not about anything more than thinking about that 4 percentage point increase in americans in the recent poll after the hearings that said now we think it's about personal gain. so while everyone is saying the polls didn't move on impeachment on support for impeachment, they did move on the percentage of folks who started saying, well, i think this is about personal gain. but getting over the hump of is this impeachable, i don't think is a question about expertise on the constitution because you can get constitutional scholars to disagree with one another. the issue is how do you line up the evidence so that the american public sees how dangerous this is to the you country because that is what is impeachable. >> does that happen in the hearing room? we look at the gop republican

respond to all of this. it is happening, yes, to some extent in the hearing room. on twitter, fox news. that message is being carried there. how do democrats adjust their messaging to that. they can communicate what they want to communicate. but there has to be a broader attempt to get the message across. . >> maya is exactly right. it is not about convincing elected representatives per se. it's about convincing enough of the american people, especially in republican districts and republican states to put pressure on their elected officials. and it's such a high bar. they are so far away from that. they would need 20 senators, assuming they get to a senate trial, and people know donald trump is a self-dealer, that things could be seen in russia's interest more than america's interest. and it doesn't matter to all that many of his voters. now, that could change. it could be an intersection, to your question, agabetween what s

on in the hearing room, but so many people know donald trump's excesses who support him anyway that this is going to be really tough. >> bob, very quickly, i go back to the conversation i had with chairman jeffries. are you reaching out to republicans? any formal outreach to pull them over to the democratic side. he was coy about that. as they talk about what they are thinking in private, do you have any evidence that that is happening? have they given up on political maneuvering? >> they know it is going to be difficult to do so. when i talked to the democrats in the house about this and senate democrats, they say that their party faces a real challenge with the looming presidential election. because so many republicans -- one thing we can't learn from history is how an impeachment process plays out during a re-election battle in the 24/7 media age. those dynamics are making it hard tore win converts on

impeachment. congressional republicans, for the most part, are looking ahead 6 to 10 months from now when they have primary fights and saying they need to be with president trump because he has political capital. and president trump is going to be on the ballot likely. it is not going to get challenged most certainly at the convention. so he will be the person to carry them across the finish line in 2020. because of that dynamic, democrats say most republicans, even if they privately acknowledge they have concerns about his conduct, they are saying their hands are tied. >> peter baker joining us from washington. much more to come, including my conversation with candidate tom steyer. and the decades long feud between two new yorkers. that's coming up. between two new yorkers. that's coming up al. con liberty mutual solo pagas lo que necesitas. only pay for what you need... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ fine, no one leaves the tablefine, we'll sleep here.

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elliott. you came back! >> my personal view is he richly deserves impeachment. he has violated the law six ways from sunday. >> this is "up". i'm david gura. it is a feud that dates back decades. accordi chairman of the house judiciary committee president trump called him fat jerry saying he has been battling nadler for years. it all started with nadler. he got involved in a real estate project on the west side of manhattan. nadler said donald trump's plans for 150-story skyscraper were grotesque and cemented an image of trump as a greedy man trying

to take advantage of the system. according to a recent piece in the atlantic, the america we deserve, trump singles out three politicians he detests. two long since retired. the third is one jerriy rnadler. what happened and what started this dynamic between the two? >> first, let me sphme say i sey nadler. i think if he and trump had a waist measure-off, trump would have the alarmer -- >> i don't know. did you see that recent photo? >> the rocky balboa photo. >> it goes all the way back to the 1980s on the upper west side of manhattan where jerry nadler was a member of the state assembly at that time. and trump wanted to build this huge apartment complex that he was going to call, what else, television city. eventually it got scaled down.

it became trump place, slightly smaller buildings. you were talking about immineem domain yesterday on your show. trump wanted to get the city to actually move part of the highway and close off an exit that people used to get home, a residential area in west manhattan, and a lot of subsidy do build this huge edifice to himself. jerry nadler probably said something like that. like i said, it got scaled down. in a way, the residents had the last laugh. because when trump was elected, he was seen as so grotesque by the people who live in what's now called trump place that they voted in the building association to take the sign that says trump off the building. >> truly remarkable as you drive down the highway and don't see the trump signs. this is a president who likes to

have the binary dynamic, somebody to push back against. how will that play out as we move to this stage of the impeachment? >> it is sort of another form of distraction in my view, the personal attacks on jerry nadler in terms of his weight being an example. which is you ignore the evidence, you ignore the substance of the allegations, and then you just go to personal attack. i mean, it's been something trump has done over and over and over again. and i think he will continue to do that. i think it's obviously wrong and bad. you know, if i were jerry nadler i would say, that's great, do you have anything on evidence that would be a defense against any of my articles of impeachment. because what nadler is absolutely right about is all we have right now are reams of evidence that implicate donald trump in impeachable offenses and donald trump has come forward with nothing credible and substantive that shows that he did what he did for any legitimate reason. >> bob costa, how much is nadler

thinking about this, democratic leadership thinking about this. you look at the last hearings in the intelligence committee. adam schiff was part of tthat a well. he managed to weather them pretty decently i think. how do they keep this from being a personalized fight. >> chairman nadler is trying to keep it from being a personalized fight. but you can't take the spirit of new york out of this. michael cohen, rudy giuliani, jerry nadler, chuck schumer, donald trump. the new york figures around this administration, this congress are ubiquitous. every day there is another new yorker either rearing their face again in this public drama of president trump's entire time in office. and you can't take it away from him. and he battles through the media, through public confrontation in a way, the same way he used to on page 6 and the

way he used to fight nadler in the 80s and 90s when he was trying to develop on the upper west side. >> you followed and covered politics out of washington a long time. is it different now with donald trump being there and how he's tried to change politics in washington? is there a new york flavor to it now? >> yeah. obviously with him, nadler, michael bloomberg is running for president now. i mean, there is a long history of new york mayors. the last time we had a mayor who didn't try to run for president is david dinkins. he left in 1993. giuliani tried and failed. bloomberg, we'll see. i did bla de blasio tried and failed. somehow he gets a strong identification with people in the south, white people in the south and places like that. it's like, what, this guy is from new york?

so a lot of new yorkers who haven't followed donald trump over the years really scratch their heads about him even as a representative of this city. >> all right. we will leave it there. the legal fight over gun support for years. a closer look how this case could be a game changer when we return. could be a game changer when we return as a struggling actor, i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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this is "up". i'm david gura. in new orleans, 10 people have been shot on an incident in canal street. a person of interest has been detained. it comes a day before the supreme court is set to take up arguably one of the most consistent hot button issues facing society, gun control. the nation's highest court will hear arguments of restriction of handguns outside the home. it is no longer on the books, however, the decision could have phaeu nationwide implications. co-author of the positive second amendment rights, regulation and the future of heller. let me start, first of all, asking about the quirk of this. this regulation that was in place, was removed. why is the court hearing

arguments in this case given that if the regulation is no longer on the books? . >> yeah. thanks for having me on. it is an unusual setup. they agreed to hear the case. the law was on the books, regulation, it was repealed after the court agreed to hear the case, then replaced by state law so it couldn't be repassed. i think most observers thought they would dismiss it at moot. so far the justices haven't done that. they directed the parties to argue it. they could still dismiss the case. so far they haven't done it. >> on that note, this has attracted so much interest. 50 court briefs have been filed in conjunction with this case. help us understand the importance of it, what this could mean, the fact that the court is dealing with the issues after a decades time. >> fundamentally -- >> we'll get to you in a second. . >> maybe i should defer to the expert because i'm not a gun rights expert. but the issue is there's so many

cases that the supreme court has not heard, that it has said, no, we are not going to grant a hearing on everything from bump stock to silencers, to registration requirements. all of a sudden the fact that they want to consider this one suggests that what they are really looking at is whether to create a foundation to extend second amendment rights to rights to carry outside of the home. most of the supreme court cases we know of have been about what the restrictions are like heller in d.c., having a handgun at home. so i think that's where we are seeing those in favor of an ex expansive reading of the second amendment trying to establish more of a foot hold that allows for less state and local regulation of guns. much i would say to the danger and detriment of the 40,000 people a year who die from gun violence.

>> let's go to the composition of the court. that certainly has changed since heller. we learned from justice john paul stevens, anthony changed the language in that decision and had very consequential changes to the law itself as a result of that. how will that affect what happens here over the next few months? >> great question. justices scalia and kennedy have been replaced by justices gorsuch and kavanaugh. that changes the outcomes of cases, including the second amendment, and more with methodology. justices gorsuch and kavanaugh bring a historically minded approach to the second amount maybe in particular than judge kavanaugh in a 2011 case when he was on the d.c. circuit saying gun laws should be evaluated based solely by reference to

text history and tradition which would be a big change. that was not justice kennedy's approach or the supreme court's approach thus far in second amendment cases. one potential outcome of this case, assuming the court doesn't dismiss it as moot, is a real change in the way that courts going forward evaluate those kinds of laws that we are just talking about. carry restrictions, assault weapons bans. >> how much is this -- are these arguments flavored by the national conversation at this point as you understand it? in other words, the court is still this protected place. i wonder how much it will affect what they debate, bob? >> so much of this interest in the court right now on gun control is because congress has not acted. there was a little bit of momentum on capitol hill for gun control. the national rifle association

huddled with the president, among others in the nra group, and spoke closely with republicans to make sure they didn't move too far along the lines. attorney general bill barr drafted his own proposals from the justice department. th there is not a coalition yet. that will take presidential leadership. when i talk to lawmakers on both sides, they say president trump would have to lean in to tkpwrol control for anything to happen. expectations are extremely low the closer 2020 is. >> can i say something about this? >> please. >> i think even for the justices, there has to be something written in the paper in 1700s when they were musk

it's not bump stocks. as kids are learning active shooter drills before they learn the alphabet in kindergarten. do they make it a sweeping thing. it upholds the plaintiffs. it was such a narrow case. it was transporting weapons that you legally own from one place to another. that's not a big thing. could they stop states from requiring universal background checks or impose restrictions on ar-15s? they must discuss some kind of moral tension. >> your sense of that, that is resonating through the chambers of the supreme court? >> a narrow decision would be with chief justice roberts preference for minimalism. although it is no longer on the books, it was unconstitutional.

if they want to look to what the history is, they will find more support for gun regulation than most people would assume. we host at duke the repository of historical gun laws, which has more than 1,500 gun laws passed prior to 1934. they have coexisted for a very long time. whether they are good and useful guide to figuring out high capacity magazines, machine guns, bump stocks, that is the harder question. history doesn't rule out gun regulation. it is not a real useful constraint for evaluating things going forward. i hope and assume that is on the mind of the justices going forward. >> thanks very much. i grew up in chapel hill. i have to ask a question in light of what happened in durham. i know there was devastation there at the stadium.

85-83. students coming back to campus, how are they deal with this? >> it's tough. we have to have tough conversations the many in class. i am a carolina fan although i work at duke. it's been good practice for building bridges and finding common ground. hopefully that is a good lesson for the gun debate. >> you grew up on the right end of irwin road. >> house republicans prepare for the next phase of the impeachment inquiry. doug collins named one of the witnesses he would like to call. his answer may surprise you. we'll reveal that next here on "up". xt here on "up" 1 in 5 people you meet wear dentures.

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this is such. i'm david gura. next week set to see the first impeachment hearings. they want to ensure fairness and integrity to the impeachment process. moments ago, doug collins elaborated on that letter to chairman nadler naming one witness he would like to call. >> will republicans on the committee call for subpoena witnesses to testify? if so, who are you going to ask to testify? >> of course. first and foremost, the first person that needs to testify is

adam schiff. he has been the author of many things. a lot of them found to be false. he will be the author of this report. he compared himself to special counsel. >> bob, let me start with you. let's get your reaction to that. a lot of republicans saying they would like to hear from adam schiff, plan to call adam schiff. there is something factious about that. but it is in line with what they have been saying about that. >> they want to shine a spotlight on chairman schiff and want to make the issue of the whistle-blower an issue. that is something you heard from my sources in the white house, others on capitol hill talk about the whistle-blower, the process. and you don't really see them trying to make a different case on the merits of everything in terms of the president's conduct with ukraine. . >> this is the most crazy thing about all of this for me, maya. the horse is well out of the barn at this point. there is the fixation on the

whistle-blower. in light of all that we learned, the transcripts that we have read from public hearings as well, this is going to be the thing to advance their case? >> i don't think they're trying to advance their case. i haven't heard a case. they're trying to plant the seeds of doubt in the minds of voters that this actually is real. and using the whistle-blower complaint that they know they're not going to get the whistle-blower and they shouldn't get the whistle-blower. it isn't even a fact witness. and all the actual fast witnesses, most of them, not all of them. but critical ones who corroborated the whistle-blower complaint have already appeared. it becomes a way of saying maybe there is a deep state just out to get trump. you can plant the seeds of doubt. and in the absence of having a good defense, it's pretty much all you've got.

i don't see it as a coherent defense. let me say three things i've heard. the politically viable offense is this isn't impeachable. it doesn't rise to the level. but that's not a great political theater way of gaining support, nor is the incompetency defense. we have heard lindsey graham and representative hurd saying this is wrong, bungling white house, no coherent national policy. but that is not impeachable. that is a bad look for a president that will go into reelection cycle if he comes out of the senate without a conviction and removal. so the only thing they have left is to sow seeds that suggest may be without any factual basis that this isn't fair. dems should not play into that.

>> lastly to you. i read from that letter at the top of the show from doug collins playing nice in that letter. >> number one, be careful what you wish for. he does not want adam schiff in that room. there is nobody more effective than adam schiff in making the case against the president. and i think we have learned that in the intelligence committee hearings. number two, never confuse this political process with a jury trial. this is about theater. all they need to do is keep a certain percentage of the american public indignant that donald trump is being treated unfairly and they will flip

an unprecedented amount of money. is it enough to propel him to the top of the field. billionaire presidential candidate tom steyer next on msnbc. e tom steyer next on msnbc. after building a business that created thousands of jobs he took charge of a city still reeling from 9/11 a three-term mayor who helped bring it back from the ashes bringing jobs and thousands of affordable housing units with it. after witnessing the terrible toll of gun violence... he helped create a movement to protect families across america. and stood up to the coal lobby and this administration to protect this planet from climate change. and now, he's taking on... him. to rebuild a country and restore faith in the dream that defines us. where the wealthy will pay more in taxes and the middle class get their fair share. everyone without health insurance can get it and everyone who likes theirs keep it. and where jobs won't just help you get by, but get ahead. and on all those things

mike blomberg intends to make good. jobs creator. leader. problem solver. mike bloomberg for president. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. wean air force veteran made of doing what's right,. not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa what do we wburger...inner? i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.

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this is "up". i'm david gura. with michael bloomberg in the mix, there are three billionaires running for president. tom steyer, activist, one of the most vocal calling for president trump's impeachment, dishing out $54 million in advertising. eclipsing the entire field of candidates. in stark contrast to elizabeth warren and bernie sanders who focused their kpaeupbts on small dollar grass roots fund-raising. the massive ad buys have been enough to get him a spot on the debate stage. will it make a difference when voters head to the polls. tom, let me start, first of all, by asking where we are in this impeachment process. you were calling for this very early on, trying the get people to back impeachment. from the intelligence committee, judiciary committee. what needs to happen next? >> look, david, my point about

impeachment has always been to do exactly what's happening now, to have televised hearings to show the american people what's happened, to leave it up to them, and to -- because i believe that is what is the determining factor. where the american people come out, whether they decide this president needs to be removed from office. i believe the facts are overwhelmingly in favor of impeachment and removal from office. but i have always said leave it up to the american people because we are the people ultimately who get to make that decision. >> we spent amount of time on new hampshire, iowa, south carolina. you're there in nevada, also an early state. what have you heard from voters as you try to press your message? what are they caring about and what is resonating from what you have to say? >> i have a simple message here, david, we have a broken government, it's been bought by corporations. it's not even trying to serve the people of the united states.

if we get anywhere with health care, education, living wage, end to gun violence, if we get any of those policies, we have to take back the government from the corporations who bought it. people in the early primary states know that's true. they want to know how we're going to do it. they want to know we can do it. everybody knows this is a failed government in washington, d.c. it's not trying to work for the people. it's not working for the people. and we need to take it back. >> i want to ask you about your strategy. you have ads everywhere, a lot of ads online. i was chuckling as i read this piece in politico. tom steyer massive live outspent others to ensure he makes the debate stage. but the recoiling, recoiling of some new hampshire voters suggest there are limits to the strategy. michael bloomberg beware. some residents feel like they can't touch a piece of technology without seeing his state.

>> david, you have known me for a long time. >> i have. >> for 10 years, when i have seen something really wrong in america, i tried to go after it with all my heart, soul, and money to right it. that means taking on and beating oil companies, tobacco companies, utilities. and also starting the need to impeach move. . that is what i'm doing here. i am putting heart examine soul and money behind the idea that we have a broken government and we have to take it back. following the exact same ow strategy, which is to put togetherst coalitions and beat these c corporations and get ba to government of, by and for the people. >> i f want to ask you how rega the modifier billionaire. people talk about the battle of the billionaires. is it something you deal with,

you embrace? how much do you want that to define your candidacy and campaign? how much is it something that's dragging on you as you campaign in states? >> it isn't the way i define myself, but it gives me a chance to start, and when i talk to people, i say, i look, i know people describe me this way. let me tellib you who i really . my mom was a schoolteacher who taught in the new york public schools and taught remedial reading to prisoners at the brooklyn houseri of detention. my dad was the first generation in his family to go to college. he wasto a lawyer, leaving the w to go into the navy in world war ii and ended up as a lawyer prosecuting nazis at nurenberg. i come from a background of people that believe them unite states was the biggest gift they ever got and wanted to make sure they gave back as much to the country. when people talk about me as a billionaire, i say, look, everybody has anna image of wha that looks like, and that's not me. let me tellnd you a little bit about who i really am.o >> i want to ask you about a

piece i read a in "the new york times" adyesterday. i'm going to guess you probably saw it. a long piecein to kamala harris campaign for president, unraveling asre the authors put it. some advisers are already bracing for a primary challenge, potentially from the billionaire tom ste yesteyer, should she ru re-election. they plan to assess whether she's made in the race. what do you make of that statement? >> i find that amusing. that's not what i'm doing. what i's am doing is trying to take back thery government for e people of the united states.ve i am not looking at all past this presidential race. as far as i'm concerned, we are in an absolute -- look. - we have to take two things. two, take backo the government. stabilize our climate crisis. we arer actually -- i'm runnin because there's something that has to happen. this doesn't mean making a career move.

this is me actually responding to what i think is an emergency in a america. a twin emergency which is a broken government in washingtong d.c., and an unaddressed climate crisis that is getting worse every single day. so i'm not trying to -- that is a pundit talking about some sort of s tactical horse race questi. but whatce i'm interested in is what's actually going on, and that needs to be fixed in the united states of america on an urgent basis. >> i remember a conversation i had withem the political scientt at stanford university and he was saying it'sta difficult to t folks in california to run for officesto other than the presidt of the united states. you have a lotr p of people wh have made fortunes and money and it's important toes run for the highest office in the land. i wond whaeer what you've made that. you thought about running against kamala harris and dianne feinstein. you've thought about running for governor as well. how do you thinkun you can make the most difference and why? in thee past in 2016 or 2018, those were races you did not want to get into versus this one.

>> erdavid, what i've done for e past tenor years is try and fige out how to have the most positive impact possible. that's the only -- ask me that question, that's all. and the question here was, the reason thater i decided to run late was i thought that what i thought were the emergencies would be t addressed in the debates and addressed by the other candidates.ot and what i saw in the early debates i that people were talkg about policy. they were t talking about which health care policy, which gun violenceli policy, which educatn policy, which green new deal. what they weren't talking about was how the heck are we going to get any of those things because in a failed government that isn't dealing with any of those and also is a running a trillion-dollar deficit at full employment, how are we going to getar that government to start tryinger to serve the american people instead of serving the corporations that have boughtth it.io and i didn't hear that conversation ind a real structural way with people talkingit about changes to the

government, the things i've been talking i about like term limit direct democracy. the idea that the american people can directly pass laws. i just think there's something -- there was something going on, and i decided i -- someone needs to do this.ne and if no one else will do it i'll do it because we have a broken government and a climate crisis that's out of control. >> last question here. the theme l of the show today t an extentho is coalition buildic we were talking about mayor pete buttigieg in north carolina havingg difficulty getting traction with black voters. the minute we have left, what's your plan toe do that? you have to build a coalition like he's going to build a coalition like every other candidate has to buildn a coalition. how your going to attract more support from black voters? >> i think if you look at inequality in america, it's impossible to discuss inequality without talking about race. it's impossible to discuss almost d any specific policy ar whether it s be educational, criminal justice, jobs, housing without talking about race.ta

so when i think about what we should be doing, i believe that on i the first day, we should start a d formal commission to over the last g -- -- race to describe how we came here and what the last 400 years have meant to the african-american community. not just what's-a happened, but specifically the contributions they've made to america. in my opinion, policy comes out ofin narrative. we need to tell a new narrative so we can come up with new solutions, area by area, to what is an inequality that has race at its very center. >> tom v steyer, always good to talk to s you. appreciate you joining us from las vegas today. tom steyer, the candidate for the democratic nomination. up ahead, joy reid talking to julian castro. he'llon "a.m. joy" in just a minute. n he'llon "a.m. joy" in just a minute our car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you?

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that does it for me today. i'll be back at 7:00 tonight to host "kasie d.c." "a.m. joy" with joy reid starts right now. >> first and foremost, the first person that needs to testify is adam schiff. he's the author of this report and he's been the author of many things. a lot of them found to be false over the past couple of years. >> do you know whether the white house is going to participate? >> i think we're still looking at that. but i have a question for you, chris. why would they want to participate in just another rerun? we're back in rerun season here in the judiciary committee. we've already had constitutional scholars in the committee talking about from the mueller report and others, is there an impeachable offense. is