♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. ♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm david gura. and tonight phase two of the impeachment inquiry is set to begin. the house judiciary committee prepares to hold its first hearing, and republicans are now calling on congressman adam schiff to testify. i'll discuss it all with the vice-chair of the house democratic caucus. that's congresswoman catherine clark. she is going to join me live. plus, the president heading to london tomorrow for meetings with nato allies. how are his troubles here going to hobble him there? i will ask congressman

ro khanna. he is going to join me in the 8:00 hour. but first a key deadline we have been watching all day in the impeachment inquiry has come and gone with no public response from the white house. jerry nadler had told the white house they had until 6:00 p.m. to decide whether president trump would participate in the impeachment hearing set for wednesday. so far we have not gotten a statement or presidential tweet or anything that indicates they have done anything but ignore chairman nadler. the president now faces another deadline, friday, to decide if he or his attorneys want to present evidence or call witnesses. he can take this opportunity to be represented in the impeachment hearings or he can stop complaining about the process. all that comes amid news that members of the intelligence committee will begin reviewing the findings of their investigation tomorrow before they bring that report up for vote on tuesday night.

well, meanwhile in an interview this morning, the top republican on the judiciary committee, that is congressman doug collins of georgia, said the first witness he wants to hear from is congressman adam schiff. >> first and foremost the first person who needs to testify is adam schiff. adam schiff has been the author of many things, but a lot of them found to be false over the past couple of years. >> do you know whether the white house is going to participate? >> well, i think we are still looking at that. but i have a question for you, chris. why would they want to participate in just another rerun? we are back in rerun season here. we have had constitutional scholars talking about the mueller report and others is there an impeachable offense. this is a complete american waste of time right here. >> and was that i want to welcome my panel here in new york. with me on set ken dilanian. beth fouhy. susan is a republican strategist and an msnbc political analyst. desiree barns was a press aid in the obama white house. and let me start with you and

the state of play, as we know it. as i say, the intelligence committee going to review this report beginning tomorrow. there will be a vote on tuesday night. what's the transition going to be like between these two committees and what's going to happen on wednesday? >> we are going to see this handoff of course between adam schiff and jerry nadler. jerry nadler has sort of taken very much a back sseat to this. nancy pelosi seemed to, you know, want to sort of turn power over to schiff instead to sort of lead the democrats through the impeachment inquiry initially. so now it moves into that phase. we know we have a whole different set of cast of characters now on the judiciary committee who are going to be making their mark. doug collins is raring to go. and it's interesting if you look back, david, to his role during the clinton impeachment in 1998, he was very much sort of the democrat decrying the unfairness of the process, the partisan nature of the process. now he is going to be the elder statesman sort of listening to

republicans making that same argument here in this case about president trump. so, the chairs have sort of flipped around, but much of the discussion is similar. >> susan, this is a real rogues gallery on both sides of the aisle you've got lawmakers who are going to make a big deal out of the hearing that's going to take place. but it will be less disciplined than what we saw in the intelligence committee. how is that going to happen on wednesday? and as we progress to other hearings in the judiciary committee? >> frankly at the end of the day as far as the american public is concerned it's not going to mean anything. people were paying attention to the hearings the first week a great deal, much less so the following week. and public opinion hasn't changed much. people are in their corners and that's where it's going to stay. if there was anything excited that came out of the hearing on wednesday, i'd be shocked. what i find very interesting though is what came out of the intelligence committee hearing that isn't necessarily part of the impeachment process, and

maybe ken can go into some more. it's all the strings that will continue to be pulled. because the democrats right now, to move forward with impeachment, they can't look backwards, they can't talk about what happened back then. and this is all about donald trump tried to meddle in the 2020 election. he tried to pay for dirt on his political opponent in 2020. but everything else is kind of going backward i find the most interesting. >> what's this going to look like? what do we know of the contours of this report? susan talked about all the strings coming together in this knitti knitting. >> i don't think there's much mystery about it. we saw it unfold in front of us witness after witness suggesting there was in fact a quid pro quo. you know, and that's what the report is going to say. it's going to go into a lot of detail. our former colleague dan gold man is the chief counsel probably playing a lead role in writing the report.

i think though as a theater critic pulling back, the hearings that were run by the intelligence committee with an hour of questioning by counsel -- they told the coherent story, they were well organized. the ones we saw in judiciary on the mueller report were not so much that. and i think it's not going to be a good look for democrats if we go back to this sort of disorganized kind of hearing that judiciary has. it wasn't an accident that nancy pelosi handed this over to adam schiff, a former prosecutor. he hired another former prosecutor, dan gold man. they presented a story to the american public. i think it's up to the judiciary now to sustain that. >> desiree barns what, do we know about the republican response to all of this? we played that clip there of doug collins. he wrote a letter to chairman jerry nadler. he was talking about putting forth witnesses who would also be academics, maybe of a different scholarly stripe. i will just quote a little bit from that letter october wednesday the house judiciary committee is scheduled to hear testimony on the constitutional

grounds for presidential impeachment from four scholars. to assure fairness and restore integrity, i request an expanded panel and a balanced composition of witnesses. chairman adam schiff not an academic witness who could do that? >> i think the last time i was here, i said that democrats need to keep it simple and call it what it is, call a spade a spade, the quid pro quo, it's bribery, it's extortion. but in this case when i think about the republicans' approach and defense to it, is that the american people should expect republican congressmembers to do their job. and their job is to investigate anything regardless of whether who in power belongs to their political party. in this case i do think it's important that the american people understand what the process of impeachment entails, and that doesn't always necessarily mean it will guarantee you the removal of said president from office. but the point is we need to stick to the facts.

we need to not ignore that our democracy is being compromised. we are talking about people who say that they believe in constitutional rights who are trying not to adhere to constitutional processes that we have in place. >> the speaker beth fouhy has been good at talking about how grave a moment this is how much sensitivity is involved in going ahead with this, and i look at what jerry nadler has said about what this hearing is going to convey on wednesday. he is going to discuss the historical constitutional basis, the constitutional framework through which the house will analyze the evidence, discuss whether the president's allegationed actions. given what desiree just said, this is rooted in the constitution. picking up on what susan was saying as well. there are plenty of people who watch this already. part of the sale here for democrats is conveying to the american public the importance of the hearings that we've seen so far and what's going to come up in these next few weeks. >> and it makes sense to walk

the american people through that even if it isn't as riveting tv. but what i find interesting that letter that you quoted of doug collins, like i want to find my constitutional experts. at this point we are so polarized, we can't believe anybody is an independent actor, even somebody who is specialized in the study of the constitution for their entire career. that simply does not exist in the world that we live in now. everybody is on somebody else's side, and you have to fight back that. and the other thing, just getting back to the whole issue of process, you know, you don't see anybody coming forward on the republican side or anywhere else, frankly, to defend the president's behavior or to explain it away. the only thing that they can do is complain about the process, and that is going to be what we see throughout this entire thing. >> there was a moment a couple of weeks ago where the president said i want to get witnesses to come forward to talk about the substance. [ laughter ] but still the focus is on process here. we are still hearing about the

whistle-blower. >> to what desiree and beth were saying, what the american public has seeing, what they want to be educated on is all great, it's fantastic, except here's the thing. when you look at the hearings that have happened already, which were very well done, as ken said, about an hour from each side, people are looking in their own news. if you're a conservative, if you're a republican you are going to conservative media places and you are seeing them perform, they are showing elise stefanik going off and having her moment, and then they are showing constitutional scholars from the right. so they are building their cases in their media silo. and the same thing happens on the left. that's in part why you don't have an agreement on the facts because people are getting their information from different news sources that don't agree. >> i want to talk a bit about what the president's been doing through all of this as he makes his way to florida. phil rucker has a great piece

out. as democrats and congress push to impeach, president trump has boasted about economic gains and signed numerous bills. grieved with the families of fallen service members at dover air force base in delaware. sure, phil rucker continues, trump has been consumed by the impeachment proceedings, but he and his aides have also staged photo opportunities. this is an opportunity for him to go overseas to go to london, to be with other world leaders and to have that play out all the while this is happening on capitol hill. >> i mean, to be fair, i think this is work that still needs to be done. i do think the commander in chief should be serving turkey to the troops. at the same time, you know, the best pr for good policy is -- or is having strong policy.

and that's the best pr in politics. and we are talking about administration that has not put forth legislative policy that either party can get behind that addresses a lot of the issues. so for me i'm not really even concerned necessarily about the antics or the distractions that president trump wants us to see or the publicisty stunts. >> i want to ask you about one figure that we haven't heard from a lot recently but is at the center of all of this. a political entomologist looking at rudy giuliani and the web, despite in the middle of that web. you've seen the president kind of distance himself in recent days from his personal attorney. let's take a listen to what the president had to say to bill o' reilly just a couple of days ago. >> rudy went, he possibly -- but you have to understand rudy has other people that he represents.

>> no, i know, he has a big firm that does the work. >> i think he's done work in ukraine for years. it's just absolutely done a lot of -- he's done a lot of work in ukraine over the years. and i think -- i mean, that's what i heard. i might've even read that someplace. >> might've even read that someplace, perhaps in "the times" or "the washington post." [ laughter ] you're on this story as well. that's very much what the focus is at this point is, is that this was a huge business opportunity for the former mayor of new york. >> it's increasingly are now investigating him and his business dealings not just in ukraine but elsewhere. subpoenas are flying. crimes like money laundering and foreign lobbying are being examined. and this could be a bigger deal in some ways in ukraine because rudy giuliani is a fox news hero. he's a famous guy. everyone in the country associates him closely with president trump. and if he is exposed as having done things wrong related to

ukraine or other things that sort of blow back on president trump, that could really pose a political problem in a way that ukraine hasn't. because going back to what susan said, it hasn't moved the needle, in part because while we can call it bribery or extortion, the american public doesn't seem convinced. the justice department wasn't either. they took a pass on investigating this. so it's sort of the democrats trying to convince the country that donald trump committed bribery, and half the country believes him and half don't. >> the next layer of that onion. much more to come tonight including remarkable comments from a sitting u.s. senator on election interference in 2016. plus, mayor pete buttigieg rising in the polls but still struggling to make inroads with black voters. first congresswoman catherine clark is going to talk about the next steps in the impeachment process. the former pennsylvania congressman officially dropping out of the presidential race, a

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[ dramatic music ]ing ] ahhhh! -ahhhh! elliott. you came back!

well, joining me now is congresswoman katherine clark of massachusetts. and let's get right into it if we could here. what are you looking forward to seeing in this report? is it the synthesis of what we heard over those two weeks? is it the presentation? what do you think we are going to see when this report becomes public for lawmakers? >> i think it's going to be a

powerful summary of the testimony that we heard that set forth a very dangerous and stark picture of abuse of power. what we heard from a variety of administration officials, many of them career diplomats who don't have a partisan interest in this is that the president made this call, asked for a favor though from ukraine for his own political gain. and when we have the powerful testimony of mr. vindman saying that this was his worst fear of, you know, that we had ambassador sondland saying that everyone was in the loop, this is powerful testimony that i think having put together in one document is going to be very important and very enlightening. >> what's your understanding of the audience for this document? we know that it's going to

provide the underpinning for the work that the house judiciary committee is is going to do. is this a public-facing document? is it something like the mueller report that's designed to be readable? >> i think it's going to serve two purposes. one, it is technically the base of officially moving this from the intel committee to the judiciary committee. and as with everything, the audience is also the american people and making sure that we all understand the facts that have been put forth. and the true dangers and threats to our democracy, our constitution, and to the integrity of the 2020 election. >> what's the relationship like between democratic leadership and the heads of these committees? how much are you in conversation with chairman nadler, chairman schiff? how much do you know as they see

these processes develop? >> right now it is very much over the past week while we have been home in our districts working here, celebrating the holidays, it has been very much work that has been done within the committees. when we return this week, we will be having more conversations, but we are unified that we are moving forward, that we are putting the facts out, and we are not going to let the republicans' tactics of obstruction stop us from defending the constitution. but what we saw in november was testimony that was very powerful and that puts the president at the center of this shakedown. and using $400 million that was allocated and appropriated by congress as his leverage to get political favors and investigate political rivals. it is a stark picture. and the republicans have been

unable to address the facts, to counter them in any way. and so we see them continue to rely on process type of arguments. so, we are going to keep moving forward. we are going to do it with the solemnness that it demands of this time. this is not something any one of us came to congress to do. but i believe, and i know that my fellow democrats believe in the oath of office and that we are here to defend and uphold the constitution. and that's what we are going to do. >> you talk about those mornings that we heard during those public hearings being stark, being dangerous. and i just want you to react to what we heard this morning on chuck todd's "meet the press." talking about the 2016 election. play a bit of tape here of what he had to say here to my colleague, chuck todd. >> they are trying to frame ukraine. you apparently were briefed about this in the united states

senate by intelligence officials. are you at all concerned you are doing russian intelligence work here? >> i was not briefed. >> you didn't attend that briefing? >> no. and dr. -- i wasn't briefed. dr. is entitled to her opinion. >> when does opinion become fact? does 17 intelligence services saying it? does every western intelligence ally saying russia did this? i'm just sort of confused at what point is it no longer an opinion for you? >> i don't think it's an opinion. i think it's a fact. >> congresswoman, i was going to ask you to the degree to which this has been reverberated around capitol. by fiona hill and alexander vindman, it is a loud den of folks saying this is not the case with which what john

kennedy is espousing. how do you react to that, this opinion that continues in washington, d.c. today? yes, the impeachment process is moving forward, but there is something much larger at stake here, and that is our understanding, our belief in what the truth is. >> that's exactly right. and, you know, we can -- what senator kennedy said today is dangerous in two ways. and first is the more factual that russia is the only player involved here who has a vested interest in discrediting ukraine, and to have a u.s. senator on national television peddling fiction. dr. hill told us this is a fictional narrative. there is not a single here is of evidence that ukraine had anything to do with the 2016 election. and to have him say that that's her opinion that she's entitled to puts us on an even more

dangerous place than going on television and doing the bidding of russia. it starts to question what are the very facts and what is everything opinion that does not support a position of the president? this is exactly why we have checks and balances built into our system. we are trying to do the obligation of congress under our constitution. get to the facts. the framers were so concerned about this very situation of foreign interference and corruption. that is why they put an impeachment process into the constitution. and senator kennedy's comments really underscored how truly disheartening it is to watch my colleagues across the aisle not stand up for our constitution, for the fundamentals of the

democracy, and not to just question process, but to, you know, just say that facts are not facts. and without any evidence make wild accusations against world leaders. these are dangerous times, and we have to do everything we can to keep searching for the truth, to keep putting out what this president has done, how he has sold our national security and the integrity of our elections. and that we have to make sure that we get those facts out to the american people. i am very grateful to the witnesses who came forward who put their own careers and reputations on the line to tell us what occurred here. and it is very dangerous to have a u.s. senator continue to pedal

russian propaganda on national television. >> congresswoman, lastly, you are going to hear from some of those critics across the aisle that this is moving too quickly. you didn't hear a lot of witnesses that you wanted to hear from, be it don mcgahn, kupperman. how do you respond to critics who say this is moving too fast at this point? >> well, i don't think there's going to be any pleasing critics from across the aisle. they say now that we are moving too fast, perhaps they want to go and talk to the president about the unbelievable obstruction and barriers that have been put at getting witnesses to come testify. we would be delighted to have john bolton or mulvaney or rudy giuliani come and tell us what they know. but the white house has no interest in having their testimony in front of the american people.

and the documents that support it. so, you know, it's always going to be something. but let's just come together, defend the constitution, and get the truth to the american people. >> congresswoman, thank you very much for the time on this sunday night. that's congresswoman katherine clark of massachusetts. a new poll showing that the majority of americans are thinking that president trump is a better president than abraham lincoln. and up next mayor pete buttigieg traveling to north carolina to meet with prominent civil rights leader, the reverend william barber. i caught up with the reverend before that meeting, share with you what he told me when i come back. that is next on "kasie dc." but first as we go to break here, say good-bye to one of the three amigos. energy secretary rick perry as he leaves the administration and the questions about his role in the ukraine scandal. living joyfully.

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judiciary committee is going to convene on wednesday. that five-page letter from the white house counsel. this hearing has been scheduled while president trump is overseas. commemorating the 70th anniversary of that transatlantic alliance. he is scheduled this initial hearing no doubt purposefully during the time that you knew the president would be out of the country attending the in ao leaders' meeting. no witnesses have been named yet for that hearing on wednesday morning. we know that there are going to be academics. we don't know who they are going to be. president making his way back to washington d.c. you see him there moments ago at joint base andrews. walk us through what else we learned here in those five pages, if you would. >> well, we of course begin with the headlines that, no, they will not participate on wednesday at this hearing. of course the president could not participate in person as a given because of his nato participation which will begin tomorrow where he flies along

with the first lady to london for that conference and the anniversary of that alliance. but the bigger picture here is it takes several pages to get to know and what it outlines is the frustration that we have heard in bits and pieces along the way from the white house, from the president, and from his republican allies that they argue this process has been unfair to the president from the beginning and that you can't at some interim point undo that without changing some of the president's abilities to represent himself, to have a better sense of what comes next. as you mentioned, not knowing even who the wnitnesses are on wechltd was an issue. even. if you see at a minimum that is an academic discussion with people who have expertise in constitutional law to understand and be able to convey to lawmakers what are the grounds for impeachment, there is a political spectrum within academia, and they wanted to make certain that there would be experts who would convey a

conservative point of view as well as a liberal point of view. but no names have been provided by the committee. so that's one small detail. but in a larger sense, what this also does is it reserves the president's right to participate at some future point. it's really taking an incremental approach sort of attacking the committee for the work that's gone on thus far to say it hasn't been handled properly or fairly, that it has sort of devolved to rumors, and keeping the door open so that if the president, his legal team, and others determine that there might be a benefit at some point that they can in fact come back to this process. where that is a problem for democrats is that they are trying to get to the end of the impeachment phase in the house and see where it can go in the senate later. and so what they had wanted to do was know would the president participate, could they sort of

get their arms around how big this process could be. and so we still have big question marks tonight. the bottom line, i think, david, this is an outlying of the grievance and complaints toward the impeachment process. and it is a rain check for perhaps the president will partake at some future point. >> just underscore that rain check, the line that stands out to me in that letter, under the current circumstances we do not intend to participate in your wednesday hearing. again another deadline we are looking at by close of business friday the white house has to decide if they will participate in future hearings. kelly o'donnell giving us the latest. coming up next we are on the trail with mayor pete buttigieg. that is next on "kasie dc." on . to our military service members at home and abroad for all their hard work and sacrifice. we all sleep easier knowing you're out there keeping us safe. and on a personal note...

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ahhhh! -ahhhh! elliott. you came back! do you plan on talk with mayor pete about the comments that he made back in 2011, and i'll read the main quote here to you. there are a lot of kids especially in the lower income minority neighborhoods who literally just haven't seen, that being education work. testify to the value of education. >> every kid, every person in this country having access to a constitutional, high quality diverse public education is a critical issue when we talk about addressing poverty and funding our public education. >> that was the reverend william barber speaking to me on "up

this morning." that visit coming as buttigieg is enjoying a major surge in a number of polls but is still struggling to attract black voters. you heard those comments just a moment ago about education and minorities. nbc's political reporter joins me now from raleigh. the panel back with me here in new york as well. let me just start with the event itself. this was long scheduled but couldn't have come at a more skenl or important time for the candidate. what happened today? there was the church service and then a meeting that followed. what happened in that meeting between the reverend barber and mayor pete? >> well, first on this campaign swing full of outreach to african-american voters. and he spent about five hours in that church service, which, if you follow candidates, that's a long time to be in any of these campaign events. that's longer than a candidate usually sits in any one campaign event. but he spent five hours there. he went to the church service where he didn't speak at all but he had a discussion on poverty

right afterwards. all this of course is coming on this campaign swing where he's going through north carolina, south carolina, and then to alabama. tomorrow he is going to be at a hbcu. he is going to visit a black-owned vineyard. and later in the week he is going to have a round-table discussion with latino community leaders and black business owners. he is trying to make sure he shows this as a priority. i had an exchange with him. he talked to reporters after that church service. listen to the exchange we had on his support among black voters. >> you are clearly reaching out to black voters a priority. do you feel you are making progress in that despite the polls not bearing that yet? >> first of all a lot of these conversations will be about issues that impact black americans but not only black americans. i am talking about exclusive racial issues around voter suppression and systemic racism in a way that helps everyone in

the country understand why we have a stake in dealing with it. >> that theory why you hear mayor pete may be struggling with support among black voters is data that some black voters are uncomfortable with his sexuality, especially black voters who are in the black church and that more conservative section of the community. that's something that reverend barber pushed back on heavily and repeatedly. listen to a little bit of that pushback during the service before mayor pete even got to speak. >> and we don't buy into these false narratives. we keep hearing them now. there is some riff between certain communities. stop putting that on black folk. there is some phobia among all folks. but stop all that stuff about somebody told you all this riff. ain't no data behind that that there's some riff between black folk and gay folk. [ applause ]

>> mayor pete was asked about that by a reporter afterwards. he said in a time like this, this is when marginalized groups need to be together. it's a day of african-american outreach that will only continue for mayor pete as he shows this is a group he wants to expand his support upon. >> shaq brewster there in raleigh, north carolina. he doesn't see it positive to have this relativism. some people suffer through something. let's not kwifbel over sort of how they relate to one another. i'm curious about this moment for mayor pete. he's taking this seriously and i wonder to what end how he makes that something that's going to yield more support. >> i think the most important part to focus on is for each candidate who is going after the, quote/unquote, black vote that, you know, we are not necessarily a demographic to be

won over. we are a demographic of americans who belong at the table to have conversations and to author some of the policies that affect us most. and so for me i am not really focused on the polling numbers against candidates with black voters. i am actually focused on them continuing to have the conversations. with that said, black people, we are not a monolith. if you look at the black vote, i think more so than ever, it's split. if you look at the generational divide, if you look at the candidates that women of color, who are the backbone of the democratic party support, does not often look like the candidate that maybe african-american men of middle age support. so i think, you know, it's important to keep that in mind that we are not a monolith. it's not a one size fits all thing. i can say that five hours at a church service as a black woman who was raised in the church,

that is a commitment, and that should not go without notice. but i do think that it is important that in order for this to be authentic, relationships have to be built. and this is a continued conversation amongst every leader and every candidate out there who is talking about the black vote, we don't just care about reparations. we don't just care about education. we care about food security as well. some of us care more about climate change. and i think it's important to make sure that the black vote isn't just limited to certain issues that people think, you know, appeal to us that we are a part of the larger conversation. black history is american history. so that's the way i see it. >> thank you very much. appreciate all of you being here. coming up, the party of trump is tested as the impeachment inquiry moves forward. but republicans on the judiciary committee appear ready to defend the president at all costs. two former republican congress men both from florida join me next to talk about the thick red

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the republican party once p itself the parto of lincoln, in honor of the man who led it back

in the 1950s. stood for the party under president trump looks altogether different with the value system that is, in some ways, the opposite of what it was when abraham lincoln was the president. a recent poll demonstrates just how far republicans have strayed from their roots. when asked to pick who was the better president, donald trump or abraham lincoln, more than half the respondents to that survey said donald trump. two republican congressmen that represent districts in florida. carlos carbello, have you react to that astonishing polling there. your reaction and what it says about the party today. >> great irony in those numbers, david. abraham lincoln is the president that unified this country after a civil war and donald trump is for sure the most divisive president in my lifetime. so, i think some of those republicans need to study history a little bit more close ly and tribalize the nature of

our politics and they are so afraid of democrats in their minds democrats have been demonized in such a way that someone like donald trump who is fighting against democrats and standing up for them gets this hero-like status. so, it's regrettable and an example of how our deterrierated in this country and regrettably i don't see us bottoming out any time soon. >> i want to play a bit of tape for you, that's charlie dent, the gentleman from pennsylvania shaping up what is to be this real dichotomy from reporters, analysts and lawmakers, as well. let's take a listen to what he had to say on cnn. >> i think my former colleagues are in a situation where they understand their base pressure, but there's no question having they are absolutely disgusted and exhausted by the president's behavior. they resent being put in this position all the time. >> david jolly, on republicans of today and their public and

priva priva private selves. if you can get them away from the camera and microphones they'll say something different than what we're hearing on the television and newspapers. >> that poll with abraham lincoln didn't poll members on capitol hill because they have a greater donald trump and one who obstructed justice can mcgahn and one who tried to cheat in the next election with ukraine and from north korea and turkey to saudi arabia and who has overseen rising debts and deficits at home and incoherent strategy and separates kids from family and really relies on alternative facts. it is a party of alternative facts and privately, republicans on capitol hill acknowledge that. carlos and i are good friends with charlie dent. he's spot on.

i think the opportunities of members of congress to lead is when they're in office and they can do something about it. not once they leave office. charlie dent is right. who will step up on capitol hill particularly in the context of the impending impeachment trial. >> a number of pieces wondering where lindsey graham is, senator lindsey graham is and the role he is playing in all of this and how he has changed over these last many years and i'll play two pieces of sound here. the first comes from back in 2015 and him recorded by the huffington post and remarking on his friendship with the former vice president joe biden and chris coons of delaware responding to what he hears in that tape. >> he came to my ceremony and said some of the most incredibly heartfelt things that anybody could ever say to me and he's the nicest person i think i've ever met in politics. >> is that right? >> he is as good a man as god ever created. >> that interview showed you the heart of lindsey graham.

someone who knows joe biden w l well. who knows his character and who knows his kindness and that he would turn on him so sharply. i think suggests how corrosive senator graham's close friendship with president trump has been to his core values. >> the word there from the senator is corrosive and carlos, i wonder how you fight that kind of corrosion. what this? stan instance tells us over donald trump over members of the republican caucus? >> the president has had a corrosive effect on a number of republicans. contradictory statements from republicans on capitol hill, criticisms of other people they made in the past and today they'll excuse the same actions or the same statements that donald trump makes. and this is a problem, david, because members of congress, as david jolly said, are supposed to lead. what we're seeing is that a lot of members of congress, and of course, this happens in both parties. but it's very obvious and out

front with republicans today. a lot of members of congress are just following. they're following their respective bases. they're not being honest with the american people and they're abandoning old friends the way it appears that lindsey graham has done to joe biden just so that they can fall in line with da donald trump. a president, who by the way, demands absolute loyalty. donald trump does not accept that someone would say, well, i'm not going to vote for impeachment, but i think what the president did was wrong. for donald trump, that is betrayal. a lot of republicans are afraid of that. they're afraid of their bases and that's why they're either quiet or just saying other things that a lot of times don't make sense. >> former congressman, thank you very much for the time on this sunday. much more to come on "kc d.c. "the white house announcing in a five-page letter to the chairman of the house judiciary committee released just moments ago, it would not be participating in that committee's first

impeachment hearing that is scheduled to take place on wednesday. the president getting ready to leave washington behind for the warm embrace of his nato allies. the chilly reception that awaits him on the world's stage this week and, of course, the kc dvr. the team of producers watching the sunday shows so you don't have to. i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late. or make me feel like i'm not really "there." talk to your doctor, and call 844-234-2424.

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welcome back to "kc d.c.."

just moepts ago the white house submitting a late response on whether it wants the president or his lawyers to participate in its first hearing that is scheduled on wednesday. the answer from the white house a resounding no. i'm going to quote here from the letter from white house counsel. we cannot be fairly expected to participate in the hearing while the witnesses are yet to be named and while it remains unclear whether the judiciary committee will afford the president a fair process through additional hearings. more importantly an academic discussion with law professors does not begin to provide the president with any assemblance of a fair process. accordingly from the current circumstances, we do not intend to participate in your wednesday hearing. the hearing will go on as scheduled without the participation of the president or his legal team. on the eve of a critical week, it's important to look at the two realities on capitol hill. one in which the president

committed an impeachable offense by pressuring ukraine to investigate a political opponent. >> i think russia and ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. does that mean that ukrainian, the ukrainian leaders were more aggressive than russia? no. russia was very aggressive and they're much more sophisticated. but the fact that russia was so aggressive does not exclude the fact that president actsiively worked for secretary clinton. >> actively worked for secretary -- my goodness. senator kennedy, you now have the president of ukraine saying he actively worked for the democratic nominee for president. i mean, now come on. you've done exactly what the russian operation is trying to get american politicians to do. are you at all concerned that you've been duped? >> no. because just read the articles. >> week after week, the senator is still on that conspiracy

carousel. just a taste of the narrative we expect to hear from some of the president's allies in the coming days as they seek to defend his pressure campaign on ukraine. here are the facts. courtesy of former nfc official fiona hill. >> some of you on this committee appear to believe that rusha and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps somehow for some reason ukraine did. this is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the russia security services themselves. >> with that, let me welcome my panel for the hour maria host of npr latino usa and the journalist in residence rick msnbc political analyst. his newest book is "information war s wars." with us from washington tonight, paul kane. senior correspondent for

"washington post" along with rick tyler msnbc political analyst. let me start with you, paul, if i could and this breaking news. we were speculating this would be the case. when we didn't hear anything by the deadline put in place by the chairman of that committee. what do you take away from those five pages written by the white house counsel. what does it say to you about this hearing on wednesday but that this entire process as it continues? >> well, thanks. i thought you were going to ask me to interpret senator kenne kennedy's thinking there. i am glad to start, instead. i know senator kennedy is a favorite of kc d.c. whether she's here hosting or not. this letter is significant because it lets you know that on wednesday there will not be a white house counsel there. there will not be somebody there to ask questions. they are still deciding whether or not this is a legitimate process that they want to take part in. they have been trying to say that the process, the white house has been trying to say that the process is tainted from

the start that adam schiff sort of secretive interviews were ruined this process and they weren't able to interview people from white house counsel perspective then. so now they're trying to figure out whether they are going to play at all in this next phase. this phase is going to be completely open. chairman nadler is going to have witnesses and they're going to have a chance to present their case and now they don't want to get into this first step. so, i think the bigger question is going to be as hearings progress through later this week into next week, do they want to present a case based on any sort of factual contradiction to what democrats have compiled so far? >> rick, i want to put up the headline, the lead story on "washington post" republicans to mount aggressive campaign against impeachment as spotlight turns to judiciary panel. so, we saw this germinating over the course of the day leading up to what we saw from the white house tonight. what do you make of the plan as

we see it being hatched here. it is to cry foul and to complain about the way it's been conducted and to complain about the depositions that we did, indeed, see the transcripts of, as well. i'm curious to hear your thoughts on the potential efficacy of that and hit this on procedure and process. >> well, you're implying, david, that some rationality to it. which is a flaw in your question. i think what chairman nadler did is smart. saying, hey, why don't you guys participate. you can't criticize us for giving due process. but the point is, if they do participate, as lots of people have said, that does dignify it and it makes the white house acknowledging that this is a legitimate process. so, i actually think since they do not care about any causality. they will participate and say we were denied due process. this is a different part of the process. this is the indictment part of the process. having academics there to explain what impeachment is is

an important function. one of the most important parts of the impeachment function is educational. so people learn what abuse of power is and separation of power and we'll learn a lot on wednesday and i hope americans will learn a lot, too. >> maria, what should the response be from senator kennedy. there were weeks of this. he was on sunday shows -- >> you want me to respond to kennedy? >> that is, you're going to hear it. you have heard it. you are going to hear it going forward. what is the response from journalists and politicians, as well. truth is not something to be fought over here. it is a thing that has to be held up as something different than opinion. >> i mean, that's why this whole notion that donald trump right now is saying i'm being treated unfairly is we're all watching this unfold in front of us. and we can hear the, we can read the transcript. so, i think that the bigger problem is the continual normalization of it. i mean, you're having to read that introduction at the top of

the show. basically this coming from a white house. and it is complete, but, yet, we have to say it because we believe that we're playing under the rules of, you know, we have to say both side of the story is not always two sides to a story here. i mean, i just would think it is fascinating if all the men, particularly men of color suddenly said, well, we're going to do like president trump. we're just not going to show up. we're just not going to show up to any of our subpoenas or cases. what would happen then? there is such a destabilization that is going on here and i just consistently worry about the normalization of it. >> i want is to ask you about the cauldron that this is going to take place. andy bigs the congressman from arizona was on and i think he said it is a group of brawlers and a different thing than the house intelligence committee. it will be a rowdier place with matt gates and jim jordan who we saw on the first round of hearings. how will that change the contours.

you had house intelligence learning lessens from the way the house judiciary committee approached impeachment earlier on and looking at the mueller report. what is jerry nadler going to take away from the way that adam schiff ran things over going to his hearings coming up. >> the way adam schiff conducted these hearings which has been expedient and very quick, which is not what the republicans are complaining about. you know it is effective. it is something that he needed to do and nadler needs to get control of his committee and, you know, one of the problems with nadler's former hearings with these ludicrous five-minute rules where politicians get the grand stand and witnesses don't get the answer to questions. that is not designed to get at the facts. we need to be designed to get at the facts. let me put this whole thing in perspective because people often make this to a legal proceeding. we are now approaching the indictment, right, that is the impeachment, whether they're going to vote on impeachment or

not. in the judicial system, we don't ask the subject of the, of the indictment or the subject of a criminal prosecution. we don't say, oh, we're going to indict you now. why don't you send your lawyers over and help you talk us out of this. the president is getting more representation than he would in any legal process. we are now approaching the point where the president will get articles of impeachment, i believe he will. then it will go to the senate. that is the president's opportunity to push back and offer evidence. they haven't. so, because the facts just aren't on their side. the republicans have been reported today are aggressively going after the whole process. and so they're going to try to convince the public that the process is undermined and we'll see that. and we'll see the members on the republican side try to undermine the process. that's solely what they're going to try to do. but viewers should keep in mind when they're listening to the republicans, are they disputing the facts of the case?

and the facts of this case are not in dispute. the president used his position to use congress appropriated to defend themselves against russia as a quid pro quo or you might say a quid pro though and in order that we need to, you know, you need, that the president would want an investigation on cheap political rival. that is an abuse of power. >> paul, i want to ask you about the climate on capitol hill. i read paul kaine as i always do and you focus on a speech that was delivered in september of 2016. this was the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell talking about his long-time friend joe biden on the senate floor the presiding officer on that day. let's take a listen to what the senate majority leader had to say and just contrast that with what we're hearing now and the efforts by this republican-led senate to get documents and information from the state department. back in time here to december 2016. >> vice president biden says his

views, heview he views his com as competitors and he has been able to cultivate many unlikely friendships across the aisle with jesse helms. with strom thurman. with me. obviously, i don't always agree with him, but i do trust him implicitly. he doesn't break his word. he doesn't waste time telling me why i'm wrong and he gets down to brass tax and he keeps inside the stakes. here is a man who has known great joy who has been read his last rights. and who has never lost himself along the way. champ, his father used to say, the measure of a man is not how often he is knock eed down, but how quickly he gets up. that's joe biden right there. you've been a real friend.

you've been a trusted partner. and it's been an honor to serve with you. we're all going to miss you. god speed. >> mention that's the center of the latest piece from "the post." mcconnell has remained conspicuously quiet as they began probes into his one-time trusted partner. senate republicans have thrown their support behind president trump's ruthless approach to the 2020 elections and his defiant defense against the house impeachment inquiry by trying to muddy the waters and suggesting that one of his democrating rivals in loosely defined corruption. the last time we heard from him was in london, kentucky. ironic as the president makes his way to this nato summit. he said the house is going to do what the house is going to do. what do we know of the attack that the senate majority leader is going to take here going forward as presumably this moves

into his court. he will not be the presiding officer but he will have some say in what that trial looks like, shall we get there. >> yeah, david, for mcconnell it's tricky. they have a real friendship. they have a real professional respect and personal respect for each other. but he's got people who are listening to trump ally in the white house who are pushing for investigations, investigations, investigations into biden. and now he's got three committee chairman. three senate republican committee chairs who are asking the administration, the state department and the treasury department for any sort of documents they might have about hunter biden and about what joe biden did while he was in ukraine. a lot of this stuff has already been proven to be not exactly true. and now there are people who are even suggesting that they should in a senate impeachment trial republicans suggesting that they would want to bring in hunter

biden to testify. that is something that would really become turn this whole process, which they were already worried about the process over in the house side. if they start doing that on the senate side, it would become a very toxic atmosphere. and mcconnell sometimes, sometimes tries to be the guy who cares about the institution. so, he's going to be torn between trying to have this impeachment trial come off as a dignified manner that probably acquits president trump. but also others who just want to tear into joe biden for trump's own benefit in 2020. mcconnell just isn't playing his cards right now. he isn't showing his cards. and, so, we're waiting to see what he's going to do and, for now, he's just saying, let's give it some time yet. let's not really answer these questions. >> i'm going to give you the last word here. something i love about you.

you escaped and live to tell about it. i'm in the same camp and something you read about. just observations of the place. and friendship as we saw described there on the senate floor takes on a different meaning in washington, d.c., doesn't it? i want you to reflect on that. the washington notion of friendship vis-a-vis joe biden and lindsay gram. >> but, also, can you give it in the context of it really feels like an old boys' club. like everybody, all the guys, all the men are just kind of patting -- >> there are friendships across the line and across the gender line. i mean, you know, you could say washington friendship is an oxy mor moron. that people aren't really friends. if you want a friend, get a dog. the thing about joe biden whether you like his policies or not, almost everybody realized this is an incredibly decent guy. he's kind, he's thoughtful and people from both sides do respect that. i am kind of hopeful, i mean, maybe, you know, optimistic is

too strong a word, that mitch mcconnell will understand this kind of human dimension and i ended up staying up too late watching "mr. smith goes to washington." and the final scene is the corrupt senator is so taken by the young jimmy stewart that he actually comes and says, look, everything i said is a lie. i am not saying that is going to happen with mitch mcconnell, but who knows. >> doing his homework watching "mr. smith goes to washington." a lot more to come here in this hour of kate kc d.c.." . ro khanna is going to join me live. plus, joe biden kicking off an 18-county bus tour across iowa. as he tries to shore up failing poll numbers in the failing hawkeye state. emblazoned on the side of that bus you might ask. here is a hint. >> then i read this malarkey that comes out of your meetings and i say, whoa, wait a minute. >> i hope everyone will drop

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when it comes to taking on president trump in 2020 and candidates for the democratic nomination all say they are ready for a fight. >> democracy fighting back in a really big, big way. >> remind us what we're fighting for. >> we have to give as good as we get. we have to push back. but we cannot turn into what we're fighting. >> i'm out here fighting every day. >> i have a track record, some taking on tough fights and winning. >> no one should be made to fight alone. >> they're not fighting to improve our lives. they're fighting to make the system the machine more efficient. >> and as president of the united states, it is the working class to this country that i will fight for. >> i'm not very big, but i learned how to fight. >> a debate in the party with over how candidates should talk to voters. divides the field into two camps. he writes the split is most acute among the top fou polling candidates. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders and pete buttigieg

midwestern zest for fashions himself a peacemaker and joe biden would sit in the latter camp with his promises to unite the country. the latest poll shows buttigieg leading the field and 14 percentage points behind him. colleague mike is in spencer, iowa. he is traveling with the former vice president who is at the beginning of an eight-day, 800-mile bus tour across the the hawkeye state. i'll put that polling back up there, again. the iowa university state poll. there is a gap between pete buttigie dwrx and joe biden at 12% in iowa. >> yeah, david. two ways to look at how this bus tour is constructed and why they're doing it in the first place. the first one is nationally. this is, i think, an effort by the biden campaign to get a message out. get some visuals out of joe biden showing that he's really fighting to use the words you were just focused on yourself for the nomination. this is probably the most intense of a schedule we've seen

him consistently maintain on a day-by-day basis and a lot of this is, yes, some podium speeches and no more teleprompter and a lot more intimate venues and retail interactions. he was at a diner this morning for instance. they want to show someone more engaged in this process. but for local consumption. this is a much different effort. biden acknowledged this morning, look, i got into this race. i might not be the front-runner any more in terms of polls but still a fluid race. rural towns and rural communities they're using to try to build out that organization to talk to potential precinct captains and get that organization built out especially in the rural areas where they think they have a better opportunity and other candidates to put up higher numbers in terms of the precinct. mayor pete is still out in front of the polls. earlier today, i asked the former vice president, i said, listen, you campaigned here in 2008 on your experience. ioens took a chance with barack

obama. isn't pete buttigieg. let's take a listen to how he answered that. >> come on. i'm not going to say anything about i say as pete will be criticism or negative of pete and i don't have any negative feelings about pete at all. and i think that we will find out, but i think the american people are looking for somebody who doesn't need a whole lot of on the job training. we'll find that out. >> so, little iowa nice there, david. he's making the contrast implicit in terms of his record of experience being ready on day one. that is a point that he made at almost every one of these stops, by the way. we talk about this as an eight-day, 19 county. he stopped at a rest stop along the way yesterday. we'll count that as one more county. >> breaking news. >> but, but, he is also flying to chicago tomorrow for a fund-raiser a day later. he's flying to new york first. the bus is making detours at

airports to get him. we know money is very real obstacle that he's dealing with in the middle of this. >> thank you for that update. rick tyler, let me turn to you and get your perspective on where you are on all of this. i was intrigued. i was mentioning a moment ago. 64 days away from the iowa caucuses. help us understand the calculation that the former vice president is making here now. >> look, he's got to do better. he's coming in fourth place and he has to make a case for iowa and this is, again, doing well in the national polls. that doesn't matter. the person who comes out of iowa will have the media attention for an entire week until we get to new hampshire and then the winner of that will have the attention, again. and, so, you know, he's really, i think, very smart to now go into iowa and campaign because, you know, the process which is why bloomberg is not going to do well because this process is designed to meet voters and to

have, you know, to use organization to get your voters out. i work for senator cruise. we won iowa and precisely that. by organizing and being in the state ask convincing enough people to turn out for us that didn't turn out for us well in the end which is a lesson of the iowa caucuses. but the fact is, it is your ticket to move on. and he's got to do well enough to move on to get to new hampshire. we'll see a major win in the field after iowa. >> last question to you here, maria. we just have 30 seconds. i apologize for that. the iowa nice that we heard from the former vice president there. for these candidates to draw contrast between each other and what do you make about the tact the former vice president is taking. the frontrunner and himself. >> at this point joe biden has got to stay relevant. i'm not sure about being nice. i think it's about being relevant. i do want to say that one thing that we need to think about iowa

is that it's more diverse than people think. 10,000 latinos came out in the last iowa caucuses. i think that's going to increase, i'm hoping, significantly. and so when we're thinking about iowa and who these candidates need to talk to. whether it's biden or buttigieg or all of them. all of us need to be thinking about a different kind of iowa. >> more stops on that bus tour. very good to keep in mind as we move ahead. 64 days away. everyone will stay with me here. the house intelligence committee set to vote on a report on impeachment put together by the chairman. congressman adam schiff. what is it in. congressman ro khanna will join me live to discuss how congressman schiff will make his case and if it is enough to convince that impeachment is not only a possibility but a necessity.

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we learned within the last hour or so that the white house and the president will not participate in the house judiciary committee impeachment. in a house to nadler in part that they can't be expected to participate in a hearing with unnamed witnesses. counsel also says, quote, it

remains unclear whether the judiciary committee will afford the president a fair process through additional hearings. this letter comes on the eve of a busy week. members of the intelligence committee are expected to get a draft of adam schiff's report. ro khanna of california. thank you for being here with me tonight. let me ask you, first of all, of the president's decision not to participate. this attack of stonewalling. how effective and what does it tell you about the white house's approach generally? >> david, i'm not surprised. the president and the white house don't have a factual defense. and i think adam schiff's report is going to detail that this was not just one errant phone call between president trump and president zelensky. there were dozens of officials, high-ranking officials involved for months in compromising our national security to badger zelensky to investigate joe biden for trump's political gain. the white house doesn't really have an answer to that factual

issue. >> the cry that we heard here, no due process. i was struck by a line in that process that jerry nadler sent to the united states. the president has a choice to make. he could take this opportunity to be represented in the impeachment hearings or stop complaining about the process. how are his complaints, do you think. as you look at what your republican colleagues are saying and approaching this. how is that resonating with them? >> it has no basis because he is the one that is blocking john bolton, nick mumick mulvaney an mcgahn from testifying. the case for impeaching donald trump is actually a conservative case. it goes baic to edmund burke and i tell my republican friends, i say today you have someone with a conservative ideology that is riding rough shot over the rule of law. what if tomorrow you had someone from the far left doing that. as we've seen in many other countries. this is a threat in a polarized time to american stability and

to american prosperity and people have to wake up to what's happening and what this president is doing. >> very grateful to that illusion here on sunday evening. let me ask you about the report itself. again, the understanding that we have here at nbc news a draft of that is going to be circulated among the committee tomorrow. a vote on tuesday night. what are you looking for specifically as you see that document? what does it need to tell you? what does it need to tell the american people? how should it be constructed? what do you want it to look like am. >> it needs to be simple and lay out what the president told his underlinks to do in terms of withholding aid from zelensky and what the president said in terms of having zelensky announce an investigation on joe biden before giving that aid. how many people knew about this. that's the surprising thing to me. this wasn't just a few people. there were dozens of people who have been implicated and i think that is the case that has to be made to the american people. >> where do you stand on the

breath of this inquiry and this investigation as it goes forward. with the nod to the mueller report to the obstruction that was written in volume two of that report. that could give an indication that he could go broader not just on ukraine but other issues, as well. is that something you support? >> i do support it being broader and it needs to be swift and focus on three things. the ukraine issue with trump withholding the aid, the president and continued obstruction of congress and the obstruction outline in the mueller report. those are the three main things that we should focus on and we need to get this done before we adjourn for the holidays. >> it needs to move expeditiously. i hear you saying that one would hope would be engaged with this process and i would quote from the letter that the ranking judiciary committee sent to nadler requesting more witnesses. expand the number of witnesses set to testify on november 4th to give the american people a wider array of perspectives

regarding impeachment. you allocate those witnesses to the majority and minority choosing. that's what he said in print. that's what he said in that letter. want to play a bit of tape of him on fox news sunday today singing a different tune. let's take a listen. >> first and foremost witness adam schiff. >> you want to bring him in before the committee not just to present a report but take questions from democrats and be cross examined, if you will, by the republicans. >> he needs to be. he put himself in that position. if he chooses not to, i question his veracity and what he's putting in his report. i question the motives of why he's doing it. it's easy to hide behind a gavel and intelligence committee behind closed door hearings and another thing to get up and have to answer questions about what his staff knew and what he knew about the whistle-blower report and his interaction with ukraine and the other things he had over time. >> oh, what a difference 12 hours make. how do you react to that?

the totally different tune, as i said, that he's singing when he's on tv versus what he is saying in print to his democratic colleague. >> the ranking member isn't saying we will bring someone that will show what the president did isn't an impeachable offense. he isn't saying the president was legitimate in pressuring ukraine's president to dig up dirt on joe biden. what he is doing is trying to find another scapegoat and they're attacking adam schiff and attacked witnesses that were testified because they had no defense for the president and some of us said if the president has a defense, let's hear it. the president is allowed to testify. we said any of his witnesses are allowed to testify. they can have a conservative legal scholar come and explain to the american public why this isn't unconstitutional. they're not willing to engage with the substance. >> i'll have you take off your 17th district hat and ask you, again, about the timetable for all of this. the senator has to be worried about this moving in a m nonexpeditious manner.

if this moves to trial, this could be something that could take him and his colleagues away from the campaign trail. >> it could. it could be a factor. but that has to be irrelevant. i mean, what we're dealing with is a constitutional impeachment of a president who has compromised national security. nothing else matters. the politics don't matter. we need to let the process play out and the politics will be what the politics will be. >> congressman ro khanna, i'll ask you to stay me for the next segment. president trump back on the world stage after making an announcement in afghanistan to the afghan government and taliban by prize. he'll head to a nato summit in london. how will it affect nato allies who have had, let's polighttepo call it a complicated relationship with this american president. president.

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president trump made a surprise visit to afghanistan on thursday and while there he raised the issue of peace talks with the taliban. talks that stalled in september that are now apparently back on. >> the taliban wants to make a deal. and we're meeting with them and we're saying it has to be a cease-fire. they didn't want to do a cease-fire, but now they do want to do a cease-fire. i believe it could probably work out that way and we'll see what happens. but we made tremendous progress. >> according to "new york times" those comments confused western diplomats and taliban leaders demanding a cease-fire would

amount to a big shift in the american position and require a new concession from the taliban. one that americans have little leverage to extract. "washington post" reporting the taliban nor the government of afghan indicated a cease-fire was near or even been discussed in resumed u.s. negotiations. maria, rick tyler and ro khanna back with me. let me start with you, congressman. serving up turkey with side of surprise. remembering what happened in september when we learned at the last minute the summit that will take place at camp david and ultimately didn't. >> i have supported the call for withdrawing our troops and for having negotiation. but we can't have the president doing it on a whim. we need actual diplomats. someone of the caliber of richard holbrook or george mitchell who are going to sit down and negotiate something with the taliban that is going to also protect women's rights and get to a peace agreement and the problem here is that the

president hasn't been consistent. it's not reasonable to say that we're going to have a cease-fire before entering into negotiation. >> rick, on the element of surprise and i look at this story, him surprising diplomats and him surprising pentagon officials, as well. the eddy gallagher and folks involved in that were looking for concrete guidance about what was supposed to happen and what rules were supposed to happen. is the tweet a directive from the president. took me back to the debate over the transgender troops in the military which was sent out on twitter. speak to the complications of that. the president acting erratically and if is to accommodate the whims of somebody like that. >> people like consistency and these he's not just a bad negotiator, he may be the worst presidential negotiator we ever had if you take what happened in afghanistan. he surprised the taliban and saying negotiations were coming back and he lost his leverage and then insulted them at the

same time by saying they really are desperate to make a deal. he then just buried himself into a hole. the taliban have the leverage. now they'll say maybe we'll talk to you, maybe we won't. the president said they were despera desperate. if you look what he did with the military and gallagher. the fact that he's making on twitter, it undermines any leverage or rule of law. he's a dreadful, dreadful negotiator. >> i'll give you the last word on this story before we move on to the summit that will take place in london. you there on capitol hill and what is the recourse to all of this? you look at what unfolded there on that short trip to afghanistan and then people have to pick up the pieces as a result of that. >> they do. what you usually have in the house armed services committee is the secretary of defense comes and cleans up the president's remarks and you have a career officials trying to adjust for what the president

says. but the fumen fundamental flaw s the president's lack of humility and his lack of understanding that he can't drive this process and there is some value to career expertise and past presidents have known what they don't know and rely on career diplomats and people who dedicate their lives to solving these issues and don't just do things based on whim. and that's been why our foreign policy is in the mess that it is. >> maria, i want to move on to the summit. again, the president going to london along with other transmember alliance and celebrating the 27th anniversary of that. not to make it high stakes and celebratory and the time these speakers have to speak reduced to four minutes each when the main meetings take place on wednesday. you read this interview with the french president and in "the economist" when he talks about the fact that this is an organization, to put it bluntly, is not in great shape. you have the president of the united states talking constantly about defense spending and president erdogan.

said the scene. >> nato is experiencing this, to me, actually i shuttered. takes a lot to make me shutter but the fact that nato is feeling so destabilized and macron was saying, guys, the thing we have been saying in this country. wake up, wake up. we can't watch nato lose all its credibility. i think everybody is on edge. we keep on saying, how do we handle the fact that there is no strategy? how do we handle the fact that donald trump is always just kind of changing his mind? this is, in fact, what we're dealing with. nobody knows what is going to happen. i'm sure that queen elizabeth is not necessarily looking forward to what she has to do. >> there you go. rick tyler, lastly to you, if i could. i'll read the tweet here from the president. i'll be representing our country at nato while the democrats are holding the most ridiculous

impeachment hearings in history. nothing was done or said wrong. the radical left undercutting our country hearing on the same dates as nato. yes, he seems to be relishing the split screen but that also leads to disengagement to what he is paying attention to when he's in london, does it not? >> nato was one of the greatest accomplishments of the post-world war ii effort. it protects us from our enemies and russia has done nothing but try to undermine nato consist t consistently and they are being success with the aid of our own president. and nato is, by the way, one of the greatest deals we ever had. meaning we'd benefit from it so much. yes, we have a strong military, but i want us to have a strong military. we also want our allies to have a strong military and they're working to be even stronger. but it's been one of the greatest alliances to thwart a third world war and we ought to be supporting it and not trying

to undermine it. >> rick tyler, thank you very much for the time. rick, congressman ro khanna, as well. new details on the london bridge terror attack as stories of heroism begin to emerge. we're back after this. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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as president trump prepares to leave for the nato summit, we have new details on the knife attack that took the lives of two people and injured three others on friday. police have identified the attacker as a 28-year-old who was no stranger to british police. he had been convicted in 2012 for his part in a plot to blow up the stock exchange and the u.s. embassy. he was given a 16-year prison term but was released early for meeting certain conditions. we're learning about some of the heroes that responded to some of those attacks. civilians chased him on to london bridge even as others were running away. they used whatever they had available to them, including a fire extinguisher and a tusk from a narwal that came from the historic building. they used those items to disarm the attacker before police

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the impeachment inquiry moves into a new phase. >> democrats on the intel committee will deliver their report. >> ahead of the first public hearings in the judiciary committee. >> until 5:00 p.m. on friday to decide whether to take part at all. >> could be to the president's advantage to have his attorneys

there. >> why would they want to participate in just another rerun. >> donald trump is going to defend himself. just not in the form the democrats choose. >> both russia and ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. >> you realize the only other person selling this argument outside of the united states is this man. >> adler has written you asking whether republicans want to subpoena any witnesses. >> rounds one and two are as rigged as a carnal ring toss. >> that is the james madison play book. >> james madison said the reason he wanted impeachment provisions in there is he feared the president would betray the trust of the american people to a foreign power. >> there is nothing that the president did wrong. >> the fact that the president got caught does not relieve him of being held accountable. >> nobody is above the law, chuck. the bill of rights is not an ala cart menu.

>> you are pretty wound up. you obviously had turkey this thanksgiving. >> and cranberries as well. >> that was the kasie dvr. that does it for us tonight on kasie. we'll be back tomorrow from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern time. for now good night from new york. welcome back to our special series, "impeachment: white house in crisis." we join you at obviously an inflection point of this inquiry. the public hearings are done and the impeachment hearings are about to begin. tonight we will big in to exactly what this means. first a new report from adam schiff, the chairman of the house intelligence committee on the findings of those hearings that so many of you watch. then the judiciary committee begins the most momentum hearings that it can really hold. beginning after thanksgiving break, these are the hearings on whether and how to impeach the sitting president that can lead to a formal vote on articles of impeachment.