i'll see you right back here tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. thank you for watching. deadline white house begins right now. it is 4:00 in the new york and we come on the air with breaking news in the impeachment inquiry into donald trump. the house intelligence committee releasing a report this afternoon, a report based on the testimony of more than a dozen witnesses to donald trump's conditioning of military aid and a white house meeting on investigations into the bidens and a debunked conspiracy theory about 2016. from the committee's brand new report, quote, impeachment inquiry has found that president trump personally and acting through agents within and outside of the u.s. government solicited the interference of a foreign government, ukraine, to benefit his re-election. on the president using his office for personal gain, the report concludes that the

president engaged in this course of conduct for the benefit of his own presidential re-election to harm the election prospects of a political rival and to influence our nation he's upcoming presidential election to his advantage. in doing so the president placed his own personal interests above the national interests, the united states sou, sought to undermine the process an endanger security. and they also have what are likely to become additional articles of impeachment. quote, the investigation revealed the nature and september of the president's misconduct, notwithstanding an unprecedented campaign of obstruction by the president and his administration to prevent the committees from obtaining documentary evidence and testimony. most ominous perhaps though, the committee issued a warning writing this, given the proximate threat of further

presidential attempts to solicit foreign interference in our next election, we cannot wait to make a referral until our efforts to obtain additional testimony and documents wind their way through the courts. and that warning underscored by chairman adam schiff himself speaking to reporters after the release of the report this afternoon. >> i think what is presented to us here is really so aptly summed up in what the president's own chief of staff had to say when he performed the country that, yes, indeed they had withheld military aid to get this political investigation. he told us to get over it. to get over. and that is what the president does, we should just get over it. this is essentially what he was saying. that we just need to get used to the idea of a corrupt president and get over it. and so we will have to decide

given that the evidence of this misconduct is so clear and uncontested, are we prepared to just get over it? i for one don't think that we should get over this. i don't think that we should get used to this. i don't think that that is what the founders of this country had in mind. indeed i think that when they prescribed a remedy, this kind of conduct by a president of the united states putting his own personal and political interests above the interests of the american people was exactly why they prescribed a remedy as extraordinary as the remedy of impeachment. >> and the house intel report being described today by jonathan allen as a, quote, news bombshell because it also includes evidence we've never seen before. call logs that show repeated and at times lengthy communications between rudy giuliani and phone numbers of the office of management and budget. that was the agency involved in holding up military aid. evidence summed up by ari melber, quote, the calls are coming from are inside the white

house. we dive into all of it with some of our favorite reporters and friends. frank figliuzzi, garrett haake, and also heidi presberra, elise jordan and also donny deutsch is here. garrett, let me start with you. a source saying that the phone records are gold and they need to know more about what is on the other end of these appearance and numbers. >> yeah, the phone records are this tantalizing new set of leads here for the committee. they don't speak to so much what we already know from the witnesses, the depositions, the evidence around the ukraine case that was presented thus far, but chairman schiff said that they suggest that what was being done here was much more widely known and well coordinated and this we

had thought previously. and also suggested that the efforts to put the squeeze on ukraine might have even started with the previous president of that country before zelensky even took over. this is all information that they are getting from these phone records. and while it was interesting that he wouldn't say exactly where the phone records came from, there is one little note buried 200 pages in to this report that says lev parnas has started to provide some documents to the committee following the subpoena issued to him on a rolling basis and that could be leading into it. so what you have here is this incredibly detailed annotated summary that is almost like a speaking indictment on the ukraine issue more broadly and then all these tantalizing other possibilities that the committee can investigate even as the judiciary committee takes the baton and moves forward with impeachment based on what we know so far. >> frank figliuzzi, i'm like a tv -- i've watched enough crime shows on television to be

dangerous with the phone log. about you what i see is a whole lot of lev parnas, rudy giuliani, rudy giuliani, omb number, lev parnas, john solomon, a journalist who spread a lot of the conspiracy theories about marie yovanovitch, what do these call logs say to you? >> well, phone records are indeed gold to any investigator. and it is no exception in this case especially when you can take the possibility of lev parnas having possible recordings of some of those conversations and overlap them with actual white house phone records. and here is -- they are stick on many levels, but here is a couple. first, the president's attempts to distance himself from rudy giuliani and programs paint rudy as a rogue a littgent will get more challenging because now we have rudy reaching in to the bobo bows of the white house, he and

it is happening preets erepeate lev parnas is caught up in this. hard for trump to say i don't know, you'll have to ask rudy, he wasn't working for me. and then say well, mr. president, it appears that he was because people were answering his phone calls in your white house. and then next, for rudy, it really looks like he is the copo of kind of an organized crime scheme that works its way throughout the white house. and if this were a county corruption investigation in miami or cleveland, we'd be sitting down with the u.s. attorney's office right now and we'd be saying do we have a rico case here, do we have a situation where rudy giuliani working for the president is running a corrupt enterprise and this time is he running it in the white house? >> garrett, let me put that back to you. i asked a committee source what the strategy was in putting out these phone logs. was to illuminate the sort of evidence that they weren't able

to get their hands on because of people like mick mulvaney or mike pompeo or rudy giuliani who didn't comply with the evidence, and this person said that what they really need are the opposing numbers, they need to know who is on the receiving end. is there any sense that lev parnas sort of sits at this intersection of an indicted individual by the southern district of new york who availed himself to this committee, what is the how's strategy in releasing these call records? >> i think that they want to show that there is still more to investigate. ship oig w schiff was asked to do you not have a stronger case if you hold on longer and continue to investigate and he said no, the concern is that the need is so urgent that we have to hand it over to the judiciary committee now. but as several other members

have mentioned to me the last couple week, they just keep walking into new evidence, whether it was the additional staffer who had heard the phone call between gordon sondland and the president, whether it was laura cooper getting those emails from colleagues saying ukranians were asking about the hold on aid on july 25th, and now these phone records, they continue to find new leads to have to follow. and i think that this is perhaps one way the importance that these call records have taken in just a few hours since this report has been released of keeping this front and center that there is still new investigatory news here. it gives reason for the committee to keep pushing on all of these things. and keeps the impeachment story line front and center. and i don't mean to be cynical or glib about that, but everyone involved in this process has said at one point or another for impeachment to be successful, it has to bipartisan and led from the public. so the idea that folks are dialed in on corrupt activity to

the degree that the phone logs make that happen, i think that there is a political sort of broad popular preliminary value in having them out there. >> and frank, to pick up on garrett's point, if this were any other white house and these four pages are phone logs came out with an indicted individual, lev parnas, with victoria tensing who is under scrutiny for representing a ukranian oligarch under investigation, and with tentacles into this corruption. and then unnamed calls to a white house numb, calls to an omb number which is differentiated on the white house switchboard. any other white house would be in crisis mode trying to explain what rudy giuliani was doing making dozens of dozens of calls deep inside the west wing around the issue of ukraine. >> well, you'd have both sides of the aisle screaming for firings, for termination. screaming for answers.

and you'd have any other president firing people who were engaged in such misconduct. so again, we have a president who is saying wasn't me, rudy was doing something on his own, i don't know, he has ukraine clients of his own. and then you have people under the president's chain of command repeatedly dealing with rudy on the phone. so which is it? and if it is not you, mr. president, why don't you go ahead and start terminating some of these people who had these allegedly dirty conversations perhaps with this rogue operator rudy giuliani? >> and garrett, there is another rogue operator perhaps, devin nunes. let's watch adam schiff on his role. he shows up in these call logs as well. >> in terms of the ranking member, it won't surprise you i'll reserve comment. it is i think deeply concerning that at a time when the president of the united states was using the power of his office to dig up dirt on a political rival, that there may

be evidence that there were members of congress complicit in that activity. >> garrett, what is devin nunes doing in these call logs? >> that is going to be an interesting question to try to find out. we see in the call logs in a nunes takes calls from rudy giuliani going back as far as april, he takes a longer phone call from left are pv parnas. and nunes has not talked about any of this, he is programs the single unfriendliest member of congress when it comes to nonfox news reporters on capitol hill. i don't think that he has taken a question from me since i've been up here. but we'll keep trying. he also has a frosty would be an understatement relationship with chairman schiff. i don't think i saw the two of them make eye contact. but he also has gotten very close to the white house on a number of issues before even to the point where he touched the hot stove. remember, during the house intel

committee's russia investigation, he had to take a step back from that after it was revealed that he had been at the white house a lot of people thought back channeling with the white house on what the committee was up to. so once again he is at the center of this. he has alluded to this saying all of it will come out in time, that he might be suing people, he is litigious for coverage that he didn't like. but he will have a lot of questions to answer downs line about to what degree was he involved in any of this on the front end. >> and frank, just to make this super clear for our viewers, a 234r flurry of information that burst into public view for the first time this afternoon. but if this were a normal criminal investigation, what would it look like that one of the people who participated in the questioning devin nunes could end up being some sort of accomplice or subject in the matter being investigated? >> one of the things it does is it expands the horizon of

obstruction. so right now we're all kind of focused on the white house and the president saying that they are obstructing, not allowing people to testify at hearing. holy cow, there is somebody in the hearing who actually is obstructing in the sense that he is not disclosing his conversations, his role in things. and so the case for obstruction goes much deeper and now touches members of congress and indeed if this were some normal corruption case, we'd be opening a case on devin nunes. >> frank, stand by for us. garrett, i appreciate your note about trying to get devin nunes to talk to us. we hope you're successful in that effort. we'll let you go and see if you can find anyone. let me bring into the conversation by phone john brennan, former director of the cia and lucky for us now an nbc news senior national security analyst. let me read you from the report. i'm sure it is a pattern of behavior that is all-too familiar to you.

the house intel committee report says this, in making the decision to move forward, we were struck by the fact that the president's misconduct was not an isolated occurrence, nor the product of a naive president. instead the efforts to involve ukraine in our 2020 presidential election were undertaken by a president who himself was elected in 2016 with the benefit of an unprecedented and sweeping campaign of election interference. undertaken by russia in his favor and which the president welcomed and utilized. your thoughts today. >> well, i've been poring through this very good house intelligence committee report. and as you point out, i think that it says a number of very important things. it points out that the phone call between donald trump and zelensky came the day after mueller testified in congress. and it was the day after that the report says was new

interventi intervention. and i think that is clearly very worrisome or should be to every american that we have somebody in the oval office who is acting in this lawless unbound and unaccountable fashion. this report i think is very clear and unambiguous in terms of its presentation of the facts. but also i think now with the call logs and other information in this report, it shows that there is a lot of additional information to be uncovered about this whole sordid affair. and i think as some of your commentators were noting, i think devin nunes's role deserves much of deeper review in terms of what he has been doing because clearly he has baun donald trump's most ardent partisan supporter and defender. when i looked at the republican. >> reporter: as well in terms of its defense, it reminds me of a bunch of defense attorneys who know that their client is guilty as sin and they are going to use every courtroom gimmick to try are to get their client off.

i think this evidence is in-k incontrovertible in terms of what it is that donald trump did to try to influence the 2020 u.s. presidential election. >> and director, i think you may have been one of the first government officials to testify publicly that either wittingly or unwittingly donald trump was aided by the russian attack on our democracy in 2016. since that time, donald trump disparaged and terminated any individual who sought to investigate or prosecute russia for their efforts in 2016. he sought to strip security clearances for people who were critical of russia. he said in an interview that if a foreign government offered dirt on an opponent, he'd have to look at it. and as you said, the dade after robert mueller testified, he picked up the phone and told president zelensky i need a favor though. do you see an escalation or a brazenness that worries you from a national security perspective? >> well, absolutely. i think the more that he has been able to get away with this and the more that he sees the

republicans in congress defending and making excuses for him, it is just going to embolden him in this type of -- these types of activities. donald trump clearly is dishonest at his core and i think this is ghon sdratiis sgl demonstrating the extent to which you will use his pow toers advance his own personal interests. and that is why i think that adam schiff and others believe that there is an urgency to try to address this issue because we have somebody at the helm of our government who has no sense of the constitutional boundaries that president is supposed to operate within and he will exercise his full authorities to whatever advantage he can see. and that is why i think that we are at a critical inflection point and we really need to be able to arrest this unbound and unaccountable individual from carrying out these activities in

the future. >> director, my last question for you, you have decades long relationships with lawmakers of both parties. if republicans hear one thing from this report, what is it that you are hoping that they hear or see? >> well, i think that this report quotes george washington and hamilton, the founders of our country about their evident to try to ensure that this country is not going to be undermined by individuals who are going to pursue their own personal interests at the expense of the country. and once again, i implore the members of congress of the republican party to rise up and to carry out their constitutional duties, set their partisan feelings aside and make sure that the country is able to continue to operate in a manner that would make our founding fathers proud. >> director brennan, thank you for jumping on the phone on such an important day and spending some time with us. we're grateful.

heidi, a remarkable day on capitol hill. and i read this report as someone who despairs the direction of the current republican party. it is black and white, plain as day. the white house doesn't dispute a single fact pattern. neither do the president's dwinders in congress. and in fact based on the he said it looks like they were part of it. >> nunes possibly becoming a fact witness and now you are seeing in these call records just how deep it goes. i was surprised actually that the chairman was measured in saying he doesn't know yet how far back it goes. based on our own reporting and the chairman's aware of this, it goes way back because the former chief prosecutor lutsenko was part of the previous administration. he was the man according to the anti-corruption experts i've talked to in ukraine who said

that rudy giuliani and the president were depending on this man to connect dots that were not there. and when he didn't and when he was fired, what did he do, in the phone call he reprimanded zelensky for firing his man on the ground yuriy lutsenko. based on my reporting, giuliani was corresponding with lutsenko as far back as january. so what you saw here was the intel committee layout in a very precise way how this scheme unfolded beginning with the ousting of an ambassador whose whole purpose was anti-corruption. >> and let's back that up one more sort of tick in the story for our viewers because there was report management "washington post." that puts it into the context of what was happening at the time.

they signed off a report that -- they looked at ukraine and said that russia had meddled. and rudy set about trying to create fog and try to finger some alternate culprit for meddling. >> and you see adam schiff trying to explain to the american people also why this matters. this is a new phase of explaining to the american people why it matters that congress appropriated this money, that the defense department in may said that ukraine met all of the anti-corruption measures that they needed to meet to get this money. and that the only reason, and i think this is underappreciated, why they actually got the money is not because trump -- because trump got caught, but it was because congress after trump got caught, they already had blown through all the deadline, congress had to jump through a lot of hoops to make this work.

>> they ran out of legal justification. >> he was willing to bring to its knees the cover that buffs us from russian aggression. the money that we supply is not just military aid, it is a critical portion of their gdp. >> unbelievable. all right. when we come back, more on today's bombshell report and the next phase of impeachment which gets under way tomorrow morning. plus a member of the house intel committee joins us on the new evidence we've been talking about. w evidence we've been talking about. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

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this is not about ukraine, this is about our democracy, this is about our national

security, this is about whether the american people have a right to expect that the president of the united states is going to act in their interests, with their security in mind and not for some illicit personal or political reason. >> an intense house intel commit chairman adam schiff underscoring the importance of this moment in donald trump's presidency. the report from his committee out today alleging abuse of power and corruption in donald trump's conduct with ukraine. a day ahead of the first hearings in the house judiciary committee where we'll hear how his conduct connects to bribery and treason. we're being joined by congressman peter welch. take us through of what in this report you hope will sort of land on the public consciousn s consciousness, what you hope people will be talking about tonight or tomorrow morning at home. >> well, i mean two things. number one, it is what adam said. is the president above the law. and the whole notion of

impeachment by our founding fathers had to do with the abuse of public trust of high office for personal gain and it fits exactly what president did. he used the powers of the presidency to compel ukraine to help him in his campaign. and it is so important for us that we have a president who is going to abide by the rule of law. with the impeachment inquiry and this is the second issue, the president acted like no president before who had been subject to a process that they hate. andrew johnson, richard nixon, beto o'rourke, in every singl single -- bill clinton, they had chiefs of staff who who turnedoff documenturned over documented or allowed witnesses to testify. they didn't block it. so that goes to the question of whether we will see the splags of powers doctrine crumble.

and whether you are republican or democrat, if you are in the house of representatives, the constitution gives us the impeachment authority. it should be used sparingly, but it shouldn't be disregarded by our president who happens to be at this point a republican. >> and congressman, i saw in the report the most succinct and perhaps compelling argument for why you won't go to court to compel the testimony of people like john bolton or his deputy mr. kupperman. was there is a roiling debate within the party or within the committee, and sort of the view from the republican is that it might take the testimony of a trusted conservative like a john bolton to crack open the minds of what at this point seem like fact resistant putin puppets in the instance of some house members on the other side of the

aisle. >> we did have a discussion and we had to make a judgment as in any case one would have to make. and we were trying to get as much information as we could. we've been thwarted obviously by the president who won't make any witness available or any documents available. but with the bravery of many of our public servants, we got an immense amount of evidence and we feel confident that the evidence we have is more than sufficient to proceed with the impeachment inquiry. and on the other hand, we'll keep the investigation open. we'd love it if we could get bolton. does giuliani want to come in. does the vice president want to come in. i mean, all of these people have intimate knowledge and as sondland says, everybody was in the loop. so, yes we'd like that, but our judgment is that what we have is extraordinarily damning as far as what the president did to abuse his authority and his stonewalling and obstruction on the inquiry. >> and congressman, i'm sure that you have seen enough of the reaction to this report to know

that these call logs were like a news detonation for those of us covering this closely. do you have theories about who rudy giuliani was talking to the white house number log, calls in the late evening -- >> no. i mean, i have a theory. >> want to share it with us? >> well, you know, the guy in the white house that he worked for was the president. so we don't know that. i mean, i have the call logs here. and there is giuliani with the omb, giuliani at the white house. there is the white house to giuliani. so this is going to be an area of inquiry that the press will pursue. but one of the things that these call logs show with the rest of the report is that this call that the president made to zelensky was not a oneoff. you know, he was explicit, he wanted a favor. he wanted that investigation into the bidens. but what this report shows and what these call logs show is that there was a ferocious

determined relentless effort on the part of the president led by him to have the apparatus of government get what he wanted. and that was the investigation into the bidens. that is what is really stunning when you look at the report as a whole including these call logs. >> congressman walsh, thank you for spending some time with us. >> thank you. joining our conversation now is reverend al sharpton. let me throw it open to all of you know. i feel like on these days where donald trump's corruption is investigated in detail in lack a black and white lit earerally, this conduct -- is there anything in here that there was nothing in here about dealing with a foreign leader, the call log is full of all sorts of savory characters don't even get cleared through the front gate.

>> what i'm surprised is that when we saw after sondland and fee fiona hill and the incredible witnesses and yet with independents, the desire for impeachment dropped 4%. dropped. after seeing that. and with in swing states, it is dropping. a i see this news this week. and it is getting to a point of even if there was video of all of this taking place, that donald trump has waged a war on facts and law that he has been winning to date. so the answer is we need to -- i sound like a broken answer. we need to take this out and bring to a bigger place. a big part of this country doesn't care if he is a crook. you have to make them care. and you have to make it about extortion and bribery. he will extort your health care, he will extort education money, he has extortsed taxes from you, make people care that he is a krinl criminal.

because right now they don't seem to care. and so we have to talk and these are bombshells after bombshell, but it doesn't move the needle. and we need to figure out a way to bring this back to the voter. because after last week, literally, it is going in the opposite direction. >> i'm not sure that -- >> and i know you keep saying we can't get to the end game. >> i don't think polling on impeachment week to week especially the week when most women who make up the vast majority of independents are worried about thanksgiving holidays, a drop in four points on an impeachment proceeding -- i take your point though. >> has anything moved the needle? >> i think when people have gone to the polls, they have chosen democrats. so i look at that. everyone time people have had a chance to do something, either the midterms ors specials, even in kentucky and louisiana, the thing that they have done is not vote for the trump person. the even in kentucky and louisiana, the thing that they have done is not vote for the trump person. so they are moving away from trump. >> at the same time, i think that we do have to make it a broader argument that if you have a president that would sit

there while people are undersiege in ukraine, that congress stroeted to give them aid and you would maneuver to try to use that to your benefit to smear -- to call for an investigation of your potential opponent, what will he do to your health care? what will he do to the things that you need if this is his character? and when you have a personal attorney who has no government office that can call the omb and negotiate back and forward, we would assume freezing military aid, i mean we're talking about a complete anarchy here. why is rudy giuliani talking to omb? what are those conversations about? and then you will say but he can't come before the congress because of immunity? immunity with what? i mean, he is conducting government business as a private attorney. what are we talking about here? and then we'll talk about who he was call management middle of the night? he wasn't talking to the switchboard operator that late

at night. >> i think that i feel all the frustration. and i think the answer is democrats shouldn't have to make people care. half the country used to care about people who broke laws. half the country used to care about people who were complicit with russian agents. half the country used to care. >> well, and that is why i frankly think it is a mistake for democrats to veer off from the path of this was about protecting ukraine and the noble ukranian struggle as noble as it may be because you can disagree with that policy. you can think that we shouldn't have been harboring the ukranians, we had no business being over there, but you can't disagree that the president should be able to ub lnilateral uphold funding for his own merit as fiona hill perfectly put it.

>> and the goal of russian disinformation is to confuse you. and what we're seeing that is new here from 2016 is republicans adopting that disinformation. you see the normalization here of, well, he may have done it, but ukranians meddled too. and when you present these people with the facts, that ukraine did not meddle, you had critical leaders from all over the world who were critical of donald trump, that does not define meddling. but still what you see here is an entire party that is complicit in that. >> which tells you why we are where we are. >> and that we need to 46-that simply facts and the laws won't protect us right now. and the point being for the democrats, we need to twist and meld and work. we are fighting against an enemy, the republicans, with

machine guns and we can't bring a knife to it. and i'm not saying do anything dishonest, but we have to find a way to take what is happening there and make it so compelling to the voter because otherwise we're going to get more years of donald trump. and we can't survive for you more years. >> well, if we run your threat -- give us a sober reality check from a counterintelligence perspective. how do you break the spell for republicans, men like richard burr who used to be trusted at the highest levels of government as actually carrying about things like the u.s. inte intelligence community and i heard him doing ftoot democrat -- footsie. >> tell the americans that don't buy the lie. if the country has a preference

for a certain candidate as if they conduct hacking crimes and social media propaganda, we've indicted two rush dozen rudozen for doing just that. and that is not even on the same playing field. but even further, we need to tell the american people look, there is a 300 page report out there, you may not read it, but i'll get you the summary in one sentence. the president of the united states tried to extort a foreign government to interfere with your next presidential laemt. peri election. period. >> and i think the why is because he's too weak to win by himself. and if people start having that conversation, that definitely makes his base who are attracted to his strength above all else maybe take a second look at a family of cheefaters. frank, thank you. when we come back, the democratic field loses a candidate who once neared the top of the polls and seemed to have all the right stuff. the brutal business of running

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of millions of americans during the recession. so, my wife kat and i took action. we started a non-profit community bank with a simple theory - give people a fair deal and real economic power. invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. the difference between words and actions matters. that's a lesson politicians in washington could use right now.

i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message.

hang on, we'll get to you. >> i'd like to speak. on the issue of race. i'm going to now direct this to vice president biden. i do not believe you are a racist. and i agree with you when you commit yourself to the importance of finding common ground. but you also worked with them to oppose busing. and there was a little girl in california who was part of the second class to integrate her spun scho public schools and she was bussed to school every day. and that little girl was me. so i will tell you that on this subject, it cannot be an intellectual debate among democrats. we have to take it seriously. >> that might go down as a high

point of kamala harris's run for president, a run that ended today. strapped for cash and seemingly lacking in significant voter support. as a somewhat surprising turn though given her political profile in the years leading up to the race, and her support she received. but crack in the foundation of her campaign were not hard to miss. there were concerns about her fund raising and her place in the field and reports from inside her team about a chaotic campaign environment. listen, i don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the democratic primary voter, but i thought she checked all the boxes. i watched her grill william barr and thought if i'm a democrat, that is what i want. i watched her on the debate stage. a moment of genuine emotion. what happened? >> first of all, i think that she ran a great race. i think that she is a great

candidate. and i think that -- >> you can't say she ran a great race. >> yes, i did and i did. she ran a great race. >> if she ran a great race, she wouldn't be in this position. >> but she is dealing with an environment that you have rules that did pivare different. >> what rules? >> certain amount of money, certain amount of polling to be in the debates. and when you have a tom steyer who is fine, raised great issues but this woman is a u.s. senator, was attorney general of the state, and was a district attorney, steyer could come in and buy commercials and up his polling. and i think that the real problem the democrats are going to have is the next debate, you have no black on that stage and the democratic party cannot have a stage where black voters do not see themselves reflected. let me finish my point. where they don't see themselves

reflected and expect that we'll come out and vote in big numbers. you must have have black turnout but we don't turn up in the debate? that is wrong. >> and why did cory booker and kamala harris, why were they rating so poorly with african-american voters? >> but you have to go into the poll, you have to go into the media. there are a lot of reasons that you can come in with that. many times -- do you know the polling that barack obama had among black voters and he ended up when they started voting he proved the polls wrong. and i think that we've got to give credit to where credit is due. they ran despite that and cory booker still could qualify if the polls change. but i think that kamala harris, you think that she grilled barr, you wait until they get to the u.s. senate if there is a trial. i think that you've not heard the last of kamala harris. >> and you are on the show all the time. i don't often hear you sound this angry. was she treated badly by the

dnc, was she dwreettreated badl the press? >> definitely treated badly by the press. i've never seen a candidate taken apart the way she was in the last several days. yes, there are organizational problems. yes, there were financial problems. buff people on that but you have people on that debate stage with no organization at all. >> and donald trump is literally home alone talking to rudy. >> and he is a guy that talks on twitter all night. and i think again a lot of assessment has to be made how the media dealt with it, we have to look at the rules. but the bottom line, i think the general concern that i think donny and i share is that what are you going to say i just did my three hour radio show, what are you going to say to black voters when they look at that stage and nobody like them is there? the democratic party will have to look at that and deal with that. because that is a problem.

>> i mean that is the symptom of the problem that nobody is there. what we have to look at is why we had two to your point the most experienced candidates cory booker and kamala harris who blow a lot of these other people away as far as their credentials yet we're not connecting. that is what we have to look at. >> black people are no different than white people and they are just scared and wanted to go with the person that they think was the most electable, full stop. and i'll be switzerland here, okay? i think that you are both right. kamala ran a great campaign in that she was such an engaging candidate. i've covered a number of presidential candidates. she is gwenn wis gwenn genuine, warm. and i talked with a top supporter and they said she lost her sister and the first person to call her was kamala harris. she is the real deal.

but there were some real problems in terms of the leadership decisions. she had the same people who ran her california campaign running her national campaign. and there was a lot of disarray there. there were some decisions made that maybe weren't the best and that if you are struggling financially, don't get rid of five people on your finance team. there are some big strategic errors. trying to get through to her for instance i know people trying to get through to her, hey, don't come out the door for medicare for all. there are major dysfunctional problems with this approach and then having to have her back pedal on that. so there were some structural issues. but the rev is right that money talks. and this is where we are right now. >> and let me ask the two of you, i worked for sarah palin. i carefully watched and covered the campaign of hillary clinton. i do think that women are still held to different standards as

candidates. they have to have well run campaigns, ne campai campaign, never mind that donald trump didn't have a campaign. they have to be perfect on the stump which i never saw her stumble. joe biden is be did the loloved never perfect on the stump. i think there is a gender piece here that we still suck at talking about. >> and you're right. use mean to cut you off. but you women are held to a different standard and black women especially. >> and black women though by the way voted for trump in the lowest numbers. so they can say that they told us so. >> my big complaint with kamala harris's campaign was i didn't really understand what the message was, what was driving her. she came out of the gate and was so fantastic in that huge rally, it was so well executed so well orchestrated. she looked like someone who was going to have a top flight campaign. as the months went on.

she never got that bump. she would have a moment like when she literally gutted biden. then she couldn't just take the moment and take the spoils she had to engage in a very contentious national debate over busing which really no one supports. is so she couldn't get the traction that she needed. i think at the same time, she had the double-edged swoshd of not just being a woman. but being an african-american woman. and the judgment and standards that she had to deal with as that, with that baggage. >> i'm excited to see her, on the senate judiciary trial. coming up next, impeachment, russian disinformation and the gop's mouthpieces. we'll discuss with ambassador michael mcfall. ( ♪ )

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i saw no evidence that there's any evidence of any kind that suggests that ukraine interfered in our elections. we have ample evidence that russia interfered in our elections. >> so that's important. because he's the only one, he's the only republican that we have found to say out loud what everybody knows, that there is no evidence that ukraine meddled in the 2016 election. but ample evidence that russia did joining our conversation before i lose it. former u.s. ambassador to russia and msnbc international affairs analyst, ambassador mcfall. we've been talking all hour. so glad that you're here.

but that becomes news because republicans don't speak the truth any more about what happened in 2016. why? >> it's shocking to me. i know -- that's somebody just repeats the basic facts about national security, that becomes news, is a shocking moment in the year 2019. you know, i think it's why it's to distract, it's called what about-ism, a clatic putin tactic. you know we have the facts here, so let's talk about something else. but it's deeply disturbing to me, nicole. because we can debate national security policy issues and have views. but we can't debate basic facts about our national security. if we do that, that's going to debase any kind of coherent thought about any foreign policy. we're going to do this about iran and north korea? we're going to do this about china? it's really scary slippery slope that we're on right now. >> ambassador what do you make of the chairman of the senate

intel committee, trying to muddy up the issue saying well a lot of ukrainians didn't like trump. well a lot of americans didn't like trump, 61% on election day, why do you think he's equivocating on his own report? >> well first i was, i was really surprised by that. that committee has done a lot of great work together, bipartisan work. they've released very comprehensive statements, studies showing what the russians did. they haven't, they haven't released a single report on what allegedly the crazy idea that ukrainians did it. it worries me that somebody like the senator would go there. think they're afraid of trump. you ask my explanation, it's a political explanation. i think the word is out that they want people to say this and so people are lining up to do it. but we should not politicize national security issues. that again, to underscore, is really, really dangerous.

>> and i know there's a big difference between republicans in office and their echo chamber on tv. but tucker carlson is at it again. saying he's with russia. well you know we can talk about how that lands here. how does that land in ukraine? >> it's deeply disturbing for ukrainians. i was just talking to some this morning about it not tucker carlson, but the general notion that they're siding with russia. somehow tucker carlson forgot that russia annexed territory in ukraine. we fought a war called world war ii to stop annexation in europe. so this amnesia about our history is, is scary. and to say that well, if we're going to be in a conflict between russia and ukraine, i want to side with russia -- you know it's not just bad for our policy towards ukraine, it's bad for our policy towards europe as a whole. and it's deeply historical, by the way i don't need to tell

you, nicole, it has nothing to do with republican party traditions. it used to be back not too long ago, president george w. bush stood up for american values and american security around the world. ronald reagan did that. what happened to tucker carlson. he used to work at the "weekly standard" where did he go wrong? maybe because the winds have blown it a different way. while i bring up the bush administration, i think we need to hear from the most senior people in the bush administration. i miss president bush's voice. i would like to hear more from secretary of state condoleezza rice. we need those people to weigh in because the republican party people weighing in right now have forgotten about these bassic facts about national security. >> why do we dig nye tucker carlson. he's a blowhard, he's a putz. >> i think because around the world you see someone in this country has a lot of viewers, saying not even tip-toeing around it.

saying i'm with russia against ukraine. >> he does have three million and four million viewers, but he's a blowhard, he's ignorant and he's a putz. >> but donald trump doctor took him to meet kim jong un, too. >> my thanks to my guests, to you for watching another wild hour. thank you for going through it with us. that does it for us, mtp daily with chuck todd starts now. ♪ welcome to thursday, it is, tuesday, it is "meet the press" day. we're always trying to get the week over with as fast as we can these days. i'm chuck todd in washington, we're counting down to what is an historic moment. in roughly one hour. the house intelligence committee will be voting to adopt the