dual screens with the nato summit happening in london, and then you have the impeachment inquiry in the house judiciary? >> certainly the house judiciary hearings but also i'm still a little surprised by the timing of senator kamala harris dropping out of the presidential race yesterday. the day before she dropped out, she announced that governor gavin newsom of california was heading to iowa next week to campaign for her. obviously that's not happening anymore. she claims because she's not a billionaire she can't continue this process which makes sense, you need money to run for a presidential campaign. i'm going to be watching where her staff goes. i think that would be interesting to see if they all sort of move to the same campaign or if they spread out or ditch the campaign trail altogether. >> the young and influential alexia ka monday. you can sign up for that news

letter at signup@"axios".com. >> what do you mean to learn from the adam schiff testimony? >> from which? >> from adam schiff. >> i learn nothing from adam schiff, i think he's a maniac. i think adam schiff is a deranged human being. i think he grew up with a complex for lots of reasons that are obvious. i think he's a very sick man, and he lies. adam schiff made up my conversation with the president of ukraine, and one of the reasons people keep talking about it is that's what they saw. this guy is sick. he made up a conversation. he lied. if he didn't do that in the halls of congress he'd be thrown into jail, but he did it in the halls of congress, and he's given immunity. this is a sick person. he's a liar, and by the way, nancy pelosi knew he was lying, and she went on his show, stephanopoulos and she said he told the truth, so she was lying too. >> wow. >> oh, boy, somebody is projecting again. >> some incredible behavior.

>> it's either projection or a c confession. i think that rant for a president who just keeps getting humiliated at the summit, just -- they're laughing at him in buckingham palace. they're mocking and ridiculing him. it's getting caught on tape. macron just absolutely eviscerated him yesterday in a press conference, and he's just losing it. so again, he's -- i think it's projection talking about lying, talking about the fact that he would be in jail but for the fact that, well, he's president of the united states right now and can't be indicted. >> whatever it is, some incredible behavior on the part of the president yesterday at the nato summit in london. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 4th, along with joe, willie and me we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire, nbc news correspondent heidi przybyla, columnist and

associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius is with us, senior adviser at moveon.org and an msnbc contributor karine jean-pierre, and national security koul up nist at "usa today" and author of the book the death of expertise tom nichols. there are simultaneous stories unfolding today from washington to london. in a little while from now, the house judiciary committee takes the lead in the impeachment inquiry of president trump. it comes just hours after the house intel committee voted to adopt a 300 page report by democrats on the president's actions toward ukraine accusing him of abusing his office and endangering national security. among the findings, never before seen phone records that put devin nunes, rudy giuliani, and the white house budget office under a glaring new spotlight. the president meanwhile, continues meeting with world leaders at the nato summit.

he'll sit down with germany's chancellor next hour after being fact checked to his face about isis by french president macron. and boy, incredible headlines including devin nunes who will not recuse himself from taking part of these hearings and yet, wow, he's so involved in so many ways as the evidence comes out. but the president's behavior is incredible this morning, and that's saying a lot given that we're shocked every day. >> you look at devin nunes and what he's been doing, the phone calls. he's in the middle of everything. i mean, the guy is like if this is a drug deal as john bolton said it was, this guy is a main player. like he is all over columbia and pablo's like -- he's calling everybody, he's calling the fixers. it's going to be fascinating to see how that plays itself out. also fascinating yesterday on the world stage, willie, is the

fact that for the first time this president, you know, he loves to go over and kick over, you know, kick things over and thinks of himself as a disrupter. yesterday the tables were turned on him. macron just absolutely eviscerated him in a press conference. he got nervous, tried to joke. macron obviously talking about isis, said hey, hold on, let's be serious about isis s and then of course that video catching the world leaders mocking and ridiculing him for just being completely off balance and out of control yesterday. >> yeah, one thing we know about donald trump is that he does not like face-to-face confrontation. as tough as he likes to talk, as tough as he likes to tweet, as tough as he likes to sound at a rally in an arena full of people, when confronted one on one he doesn't like that and he turned to president macron and said would you like some nice isis fighters, and president

macron said let's be serious and explained what actually was happening with turkey. this was a president yesterday who was embarrassed by these leaders a couple of times. had prime minister trudeau, the president of the united states tried to get him to talk about how he was going to raise his contribution, his military spending and prime minister trudeau effectively said let's be real. we've been there at the side of the united states time and time again when we answered the call after nine l9/11. the "new york times" writes president trump has always relished throwing european leaders off balance, antagonizing allies, embracing insurgents and septemberias eur underimpounde undergoes dizzying changes of its own, trump was subjected to a rare tongue lashing, who

dismissed his chance to lighten the mood with a curt let's be serious. heeding prime minister boris johnson's plea not to barge into the election at the 11th hour. it was a startling turn about, one that underscored how europe's shifting landscape has scrambled the calculus for mr. trump. >> as case in point yesterday, french president macron, british prime minister johnson and canadian prime minister trudeau were caught in a hot mic moment during the nato summit, look. >> now, nbc news has not confirmed who the world leaders were discussing, but you do the math. president trump's remarks alongside nato's secretary stoltenberg were slighted for 20 minutes as the first event of the day according to the official white house transcript, the meeting ran approximately 53 minutes. like wise, president trump's

midday meeting with french president macron lasted around 38 minutes, so joe it appears they were talking about him. >> right. i think they were. there were other parts of the conversation that we're not going to play yet. nbc news still trying to confirm the complete tape and just to make sure that they were, in fact, talking about the man that will the world thinks they were talking about. but david ignatius, it appears that donald trump has been identified as a one trick pony. he keeps parroting the same remarks over and over again about nato contributions, about trade wars, about phony disputes, about all of these different things and at this point, it appears the nato leaders have had enough and are willing to push back on him because, well, as we discussed yesterday there's really no need playing into his childish games and his sophomoric mind-set.

>> it was a different kind of nato meeting. usually donald trump arrives at these like a wrecking ball. he wants to disrupt and destabilize and get concessions. this tone was different, and i think you're right to say that european leaders have learned to push back, to be tougher, more irreverent with trump, standing around gossiping about him in that little bit of film that we watched. so i think the sad part is that three years into the trump presidency, nato which was the strongest alliance on the planet is now very much weakened and destabilized. what set off president trump was a comment that french president macron made in an interview with an economist where he said that nato basically is brain dead, meaning it doesn't have leadership at the top. it's losing sense of its mission. that's what had trump pushing back making a claim, remarks

very nasty. the only thing i take issue with is this remark that prompted macron to say let's get serious. what trump was saying actually is pretty important. he was saying, hey, europeans you need to take back some of the isis prisoners who came from your countries and hold them, interrogate them, but deal with them as the prisons that they've been held in that were controlled by the syrian kurds are being overrun. that's not a trivial problem. the u.s. has been trying for nearly a year to get the europeans to deal with this, and i thought in that way trump was trying to, you know, kind of humorously raise it, but it's a serious issue, and macron's answer was not adequate. >> so tom nichols, you look at the disintegration of nato as well, at least what david said, the most important alliance on

the globe. it has been a thorn in the side of the soviet union for decades, for half a century. it's been a thorn in vladimir putin's side since he took over that country at the turn of the surgery, and donald trump over the past three years has been dismantling it one failed summit after another failed summit after another failed summit. once again, as nancy pelosi says, all roads lead back to put putin. in this case vladimir putin could not be happier this morning watching donald trump once again fight with all of his nato allies. >> the amazing part of that is that putin is getting everything he wants without having to lift a finger. i don't think the president is somehow doing this on instructions. i think he has a kind of natural oppositional defiant disorder in the presence of adults. these are serious people. the leaders of nato, whatever

their -- i mean, even, you know, the british prime minister and these very young prime ministers, the young president of france, nonetheless, these are people who run countries, been through campaigns. these are people that are talking about serious things, and the president is always out of his depth in those environments. and what you're seeing as david pointed out, is nato is almost reforming itself to deal with the fact that the americans are off the stage, and putin is more than happy to see that because that means the europeans will have to make their own deals with russia if the americans are out of the game. i mean, when, you know, the canadians and the french are rebuking the united states for not being an aggressive and, you know, strong presence in nato, the world has really turned on its head, and putin is getting everything he wants without having to say a word because putin is the only person in the world donald trump is really, i think, genuinely afraid of.

>> i was going to just say, just push back just a little bit where you talked about that there's no grand design here by donald trump, that it's just his gut reaction to be oppositional to nato, but you look around the globe. why is it that all of donald trump's gut instincts always benefit vladimir putin, whether it's in ukraine and whether, you know, trying to protect the russians from the 2016 meddling charges, saying that ukraine to aides isn't a real country, letting russia get into the middle east for the first time since 1973 with his speedy retreat? i mean, i could go down the list. you know, joking with -- i mean, everything he does always benefits vladimir putin. is that a mistake? i mean is that by happenstance? >> of course it's a mistake.

i don't think it's happenstance, but i think you have to notice that he does it with other strong men and dictators, you know, just yesterday he was kind of crying in his cups a bit about how he doesn't think president xi likes him anymore, and he's really hopeful that his pal kim jong-un still likes him, and of course we're going through this disaster in syria because he wanted to placate erdogan. i think putin's a special case because he's always trying to stay off putin's radar, stay out of his way, but the president's instinct is never to decide with the messy democracies and their leaders who actually have to, again, engage in the serious business of governing. it's always to side with the strongmen and the dictators who see things, you know, black and white, my good is my good, transactional, and that's just his instinct. i think he just -- he doesn't understand alliances.

he doesn't understand let's be honest, he doesn't understand how the world works and he likes the much simpler model of just sort of ordering people around. >> let's go over to the site of the nato summit in london, that's where we find nbc news correspondent hans anichols. i assume he has seen the video of world leaders laughing at him at buckingham palace. he's got another exchange, which we'll be carrying live with angela merkel a short time from now. what is the president's take? what is the white house's take on how this has unfolded over the last 24 hours? >> reporter: well, the president's been at pains to try to do a victory lap here at nato for what he says is increased defense spending. the remarkable thing about his relationship with macron is in some ways the president and macron are on the same page, they want nato to do more for counter terrorism. they disagree on short-term and

long-term horizons, but you know, the let's be serious line from macron, that was the rhetorical rebuke, but i think the stronger more substantive one is when macron doubled down on this idea there's a brain death in nato. so let's watch the whole exchange, and then we'll talk on the back end. >> and we have a tremendous amount of captured fighters, isis fighters, over in syria, and they're all under lock and key, but many are from france. would you like some nice isis fighters? i could give you some. you can take every one you want. >> let's be serious, not make any mistake. your number one problems are not -- you have more and more fighters due to the swituation today. >> that's why he's a politician. that was one of the greatest non-answers. >> as tense as that moment was, it could have been much more

tense in large part because when you look at what president donald trump did just two hours before that meeting, he was lobbing shows at emmanuel macron, said it was insulting, you can't say that. and to willie's point the president tends to be more aggressive, more challenging before the meeting or after the meeting. in the actual meeting there's less confrontation. that's why i'll be so interested to see how he handles angela merkel and how angela merkel handles him in just about 90 minutes. we have sort of the dovish donald trump or will we have the twitter tirade donald trump in that meeting? because there's not a lot of personal chemistry between the president and the chancellor. guys. >> they've been very frosty in these one on one moments in the past, and we'll see another one coming up shortly. hans nichols in front of parliament. it was interesting to watch that exchange between macron and trump. a short time before that when the president was sitting with stoltenberg he went on and on about macron being insulting

nato. he has to from moment to moment from exchange to exchange he has to take these new positions and today we'll see him sitting next to chancellor merkel. there's not a lot of love lost between those two. >> among the european leaders he probably has the least chemistry with her. they have certainly had issues in the past. it was fascinating to watch this unfold yesterday, and i've been to the nato meetings the last two years. i've been in the room. macron for a while, for a time there was a bromance, the handshake, the firm handshakes, the back slapping, the body language. that all evaporated yesterday amid real tension about isis and trade and other issues. the president talking about iran and briefly saying the u.s. did not support the protesters there, having to walk that back. he said later he thought that meant material support for the protesters. he says the u.s. does stand with them. we have seen this time and time again as hans said and you said, the president doesn't like the

face-to-face confrontation. reminded of the g-7 a year ago and he had an exchange with trudeau on the flight out, ripped into him. i think we might see that again today perhaps sitting alongside angela merkel. the president has a news conference today. he did take like two hours of questions yesterday, or perhaps it will come on air force one on his flight back to the states later on. >> when you pull back and look at these dynamics playing out, and you see the full video if you want to go on twitter you can see it of all these world leaders making fun of trump behind his back, it's now a competition to one up him on the public space. it's not like we need america. we need to show strength and a connection. there is something else going on, and you can even see it in the tone sitting next to macron. >> something that your father always would talk about is he would always urge people to look at the self-interest of other countries. >> yeah. >> the self-interest of other

politicians, nothing wrong with that. our politicians look after their self-interest and look after the self-interest of this country. so david ignatius, for people of france have seen donald trump pushing around nato leaders for years. macron's having some polling problems there. i'm sure whether you're talking about trudeau in canada or whether you're talking about macron in france or merkel in germany, they want their leader standing up to somebody who's extraordinarily unpopular in europe and across the world. the american president who's seen as a bully. >> joe, i think that's the heart of the matter. everywhere trump goes, whether it's to a nato summit in europe, travels in asia, he seems to overturn the apple cart. he seems to overturn established policies.

he shakes up alliances. he somehow believes that's good statesmanship, and what i've seen the last year is foreign governments beginning to hedge against the uncertainty, the kind of erratic swinging phenomenon that is donald trump. so how are they hedging? the united arab emirates and the saudi arabia and the gulf are beginning to think about their own security policies. they're getting much closer to china, getting much closer to russia. the uae is even beginning to find ways to talk directly to iran. in nato, france is saying effectively when macron says nato is brain dead, he means we can't really rely on america the way we used to with the brain at the center of our alliance, we just don't trust, don't have confidence in. so they're beginning to hedge, and i think, you know, if mika's dad was here, that phenomenon of a world that doesn't trust america beginning to look for

alternatives to american leadership would scare him the most. >> absolutely. it did already with the on set of trump. he saw it coming. still ahead on "morning joe," that other crucial story of the morning, the next phase of the impeachment inquiry is poised to kick off in just a few hours from now. heidi has new reporting on that. we'll get to heidi. it comes on the heels of those newly revealed call logs showing rudy giuliani was on the phone with the white house more than a dozen times just as the president was forcing out the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. we'll get karine's take on the shrinking democratic field as senator kamala harris suspends her presidential campaign. you're watching "morning joe," a lot ahead. we'll be right back. ♪ accepteding out an s.o.s., sending out an s.o.s. snoed ♪ ♪ ♪

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all right, 26 past the hour, now to the major revelations from the house intel committee's impeachment report, phone logs are connecting key players in the investigation. rudy giuliani, his indicted associate lev parnas, and republican congressman devin nunes whose name was mentioned 49 times in the intel report. isn't he the one asking questions about it? it seems a little weird. >> he's the one leading questions. he is the top republican. >> what? that doesn't make any sense. seems like a conflict. anyhow, also under scrutiny giuliani's contacts with white house office of management and budget. in a game of phone tag on april 9th between judge and a mysterious number from the white house, that call lasted more than eight minutes. as the "new york times" reports, house investigators suspect that the number may belong to president trump in part because of evidence from the roger stone

trial, which showed stone who had direct access to the president also received a call from the same mysterious number. the call records show that around that time, giuliani, nunes, and parnas were in frequent contact with john solomon, then a columnist for "the hill" who published a series of opinion pieces criticizing then u.s. ambassador marie yovanovitch. the days after one particular article published on april 7th, phone records show several calls between giuliani, parnas, nunes and solomon including april 10th when giuliani and nunes talked on three short calls in quick succession followed by a text message and ending with a nearly three-minute call. phone records also show that on april 24th, the day that yovanovitch was recalled to washington, giuliani spoke at least eight times with a white house phone number.

giuliani has previously acknowledged pressing trump to remove the ambassador from her post. here's what ranking member nunes said late last night about those call logs. >> maybe they have the recordings of my phone calls with rudy giuliani. they're welcome to play them because everything i spoke with rudy giuliani about is nothing that i wouldn't care if the american people found out. >> did you ever talk to this guyleguy les parnas? >> it's possible. i don't really recall that name. i remember the name now because he's been indicted. i'll go back and check all my records, but it seems very unlikely that i would be taking calls from random people. >> that's the thing, mika, he's not a random person. >> no. >> he's in the middle of this drug deal. >> yeah. >> according to, again, according to what john bolton called it in the middle of this drug deal, so he's talking to a guy who's indicted and is claiming he doesn't remember

that? please. >> a lawyer for lev parnas tells "the wall street journal" that nunes and his client were focused on investigations into corruption in ukraine. that's like becoming -- >> that's funny. >> -- a key line that means something else. adding, quote, they weren't talking about where to find sushi in kyiv. okay. >> i don't get this, though, mika, i mean, why -- think about the timing. >> yeah. >> they claim they're interested in corruption in ukraine. donald trump's never talked about corruption in ukraine. why would they suddenly become interested in corruption in ukraine right after the state department and the d.o.d. said that there was not a significant amount of corruption in ukraine to concern the americans and it was time to transfer the money and the weapons to ukraine. you start worrying about corruption right after donald trump's d.o.d. and donald trump's state department says no

problem with corruption in ukraine? >> yeah, i get the feeling corruption in ukraine means dirt on political rival. heidi, you have reporting looking into this and what's coming up? what are you looking at? >> right, so schiff says he's kicking this over to the judiciary committee, but people i talked to on the judiciary committee have been thinking about how these articles could be shaped for quite a while because as nancy pelosi says, they've had the goods, right? and so my reporting is what the considerations are right now about what these articles might look like. what we do know at this hour is that there is likely to be at least one broad abuse of power article encapsulated in that everything that from the president using his office for personal gain, leveraging taxpayer dollars, appropriated federal taxpayer dollars to extort a foreign country in order to help himself personally. secondly, contempt of congress, and this is where there's serious discussions underway,

mika and joe, as to whether this only focuses on ukraine and what the president did because there's so much there in terms of blocking witnesses, from the very get go, pat cipollone sending a letter october 2nd saying your investigation, congress, is constitutionally invalid and none of us are going to cooperate with it or whether they include some of the mueller investigation materials. that is a hot debate right now as to whether they're going to go anywhere near mueller. a lot of the progressives in the conference want to have as much as possible in their leadership concerned the more diffuse they make it the harder it will be to get support from republicans, if they're going to get any support. >> that's going to be a wild hearing, the judiciary hearing committees are going to be wild. matt gates, have some republicans who have been big loud defenders of the president. just going back quickly because it crosses into your world in the white house, these phone calls with giuliani.

on april 24th, rudy giuliani, a private attorney not working for the government called the white house seven times. what else happened on april 24th, marie yovanovitch was recalled from ukraine, brought back to washington and fired. later in august when they were trying to set up a white house meeting he was talking with omb, rudy giuliani as walter shab said, i can think of a lot of bad reasons why he'd be talking to omb, i can't think of one good reason. rudy giuliani calling the white house again and again at these critical moments in the ukraine story. >> right, the timing obviously causes us to raise eyebrows. he's the president's personal attorney. he can call the president. omb, tlks no jurisdiction there. what does omb do? helps talk about funds to ukraine. that is also going to be a subject of investigators questions. giuliani last night denied any sort of wrongdoing. this is going to be part of the focus going forward. let's not miss the 30,000 foot look here that this report says that the president of the united states placed his personal and

political interests over the interests of the nation. >> yep. >> and that's what's going to be the subject of this hearing today. but you are right, this is going to be a wild scene. the judiciary committee is twice the size of the house intel committee. these hearings tend to be in this committee tend to be unruly. as you mentioned some of the president's most ardent defenders are going to be there. there's been talks and reporting about some scenes they're going to try to create some staging, so they're going to try to act out, slow things down. i think it will be sort of fascinating to watch. i don't know that necessarily it's going to be the american republic at its best, but this is it. we of course also have this split screen where that's going to be unfolding while the president is in london and is going to be reacting to it when we see him later on camera. >> tom nichols, boy, what a party we used to belong to. you've got the republicans spent all weekend pushing russian propaganda talking points that the intel community warned them not to.

trump's intel community, by the way. you've got the top republican on the intel committee in the middle of this so-called, quote, drug deal calling around indicted ukrainians who were trying to get things happening behind the scenes. as part of -- again, just a part of this bigger drug deal, and of course you've got a republican leader that's running the house of representatives in kevin mccarthy who told his caucus before donald trump was nominated that he was certain that donald trump was being paid off by vladimir putin, now they just line up line the quizlings that they are and do whatever this man asks them to do. >> you know, one of the most important things that comes out of this is to remember that elections matter. that if the democrats hadn't taken the house in 2018 we wouldn't know any of this. one of the really important outcomes of that was that adam

schiff ended up chairing intelligence rather than devin nunes, and all of this would have been buried, but i think to go back to the republicans, the most important thing is everybody knows what happened. i mean, this is not a search for the truth. >> everybody. >> everybody. there is no doubt about it. the republicans are going to go to the mattresses not because they believe donald trump is innocent but because they believe it is a partisan imperative to save donald trump from impeachment. it's not like they don't know what happened. everybody knows exactly what happened. i think adam schiff was absolutely right yesterday to say we have more than enough information to send this on to judiciary. we're going to find out more things. investigations are going to go on, but it's just going to be more rocks on the scale of proving what we already know, which is that the president put his interests above the national interests to pressure an ally into doing his personal bidding.

no matter how many ways you try and put that back together, that's what it amounts to. >> you know, mika, tom really laid it out perfectly. the republicans are not acting this way, not parroting russian propaganda because they think donald trump is innocent. they're doing it because they know he's guilty. >> so then it leads to the question because the president , you know keeps pushing back in a way that i think people, especially leaders in washington have never seen before with more lies, with more insults, and more bullying. karine january pierre, i know you're here to talk about kamala, we'll get to that in a moment. this trial will be going on a month before iowa, and you've got two sides that are not giving in. you know, some may say that i obviously side with the democrats, but it seems like there's one side with the facts

and the other side that will do anything to ignore the facts, and i think this could be actually tough for the candidates to handle, especially if voters are kind of tuned out to all of this. >> yeah, mika, it's quite mind blowing what we're seeing, and i just want to add one more thing. we have to remember on october 3rd, donald trump walked out on the south lawn, and he was asked by a reporter what did you want ukraine -- the ukraine president to do? he said i wanted him to investigate biden. he didn't mention burisma. he didn't mention corruption. and you have a situation now where a republican party that used to be about mr. gorbachev please tear down this wall to now taking kgb basically essentially talking points, misinformation, and putting it out there, and i just don't know where the line is. where is the line? is this president above the law or not? i mean, that is just where we are right now.

and i think what democrats need to do is continue doing what thai doing, which is keep going for the facts, keep laying it out for the american public, and that is what is at their constitutional duty is what's at stake, and that's what they need to be doing. >> now let's get to kamala harris dropping out of the race yesterday. was this a surprise to insiders? >> yeah, it was. it was shocking to insiders. most people were very, very surprised by her dropping out, even though we had seen stories and articles about the disarray in her campaign. we have to remember almost a year ago now kamala harris when she announced, she announced on martin luther king day. her videos had echoes of shirley chism who was the first black woman to run in 1972. she was seen as someone who many a very good chance of getting the nomination as a first black woman who was in a first tier opportunity in a presidential race to get that nomination, so it is shocking being the first

of that top tier at some point in this race to end her campaign. and i think what has happened is that she was not able to find her lane. she did not have the coffers this many of them had going into this race, and she had to start from scratch. and let's not forget she had 20,000 people show up at her rally as well. it was so impressive that even donald trump mentioned it. it was a surprising and d disappointing to see for many. her voice is going to be missed. we have to remember she was only african-american woman in this race. we have a democratic party that's very diverse where black women are seen as being a key constituency in this party, and now that is gone, and that is something that the party has to think about as a whole. we may not have on the next debate stage, we may not have a person of color. i mean, that's problematic for the party, and what does that

mean moving forward. >> you know, and what's so interesting is one of the reasons we're not going to have a person of color on the debate stage next time is ironically enough because kamala harris and cory booker as of yet kocory ha not been able to connect with old old er black voters as joe biden has. i remember back in 2008, david ignatius, barack obama and michelle obama actually in late 2007 being frustrated because black voters were still siding with hillary clinton over him, but they eventually made that turn. but you know, with kamala, she had a great launch. she had really good prospects, but this underlines that stubborn fact that cokie roberts would always say. it doesn't matter if you've been

a governor, if you've been a congressman, if you've been a business owner, if you've been a military man or woman or if you've been a senator. it's one thing to do those jobs. it's quite another to run for president of the united states. there is nothing that prepares you for that. >> kamala harris exploded out of the starting gate, joe, i remember on your show she was just extraordinary, and she looked like somebody who would challenge the expectation maybe that biden would emerge as the candidate. why she faded, why she was unable to develop a message that was as powerful as her personality i think will be one of the interesting campaign biography details that we'll have to wait for. i'm struck with her dropping out. this race is still fluid. it's still hard to know where

we'll end up after iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina, how the race will look then as we head towards the decisive primaries. so looks like biden's race, but there's still so many analysts feel uncertainty, a queasiness about it. how interesting is it this late in the long campaign, we're still wondering how it's going to turn out. >> and how fascinating that this point in the process where we're still two months away from iowa, we're still two months away from the first democratic voters or caucus goers picking a candidate that we've had many potential top tier candidates already drop out. i will say this, though, about kamala harris, her dropping out surprised a lot of people, but that actually is the smart play. when you get out early and don't

wait for the thousand articles to be written asking the question when are you finally going to give up, it actually protects you politically and allows you to live to fight another day. >> which she wants to do. >> expect kamala harris to be running for president again, and my gosh, i'll tell you what she's doing this morning most likely, she's taking notes on everything she learned in this first run and it will be used to her advantage the next time she does it. i mean, you look at so many presidents, almost every one of them tried running and lost the first time. >> real quick, i just don't know that we've heard the last from her. i spoke with someone very close to her, a top supporter last night, mika, who said she feels so strong ly about this moment that we are in as a nation, that you cannot rule out she would be open to a vp run. who would she be open to running on a ticket with. it's a pretty limited list to

mike bloomberg and joe biden, but we'll see. >> karine jean-pierre, thank you so much. we look forward to having you later on this week. heidi przybyla, thank you for your reporting. still ahead, cory booker joins the conversation. plus, is attorney general william barr undermining his own justice department in order to once again protect president trump? nbc's julia ainsley joins us with her new findings next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ hi honey, we got in early. yeah, and we brought steve and mark. ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event.

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♪ 49 past the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." earlier this week, "the washington post" reported that attorney general william barr told associates he disagrees with the department of justice's inspector general on a central finding in his report that the fbi had enough information to justify an investigation into the trump campaign. joining us now with more reporting on a.g. barr is nbc

news correspondent julia ainsley, also with us msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> hi mike. >> hi megan. >> good to see you. julia, your finding in all your reporting is that the attorney general might be getting a little worried. explain why? >> that's because he's looked at this inspector general report, which is coming next weekment we're focused on hearings this week. we've got more news on the inspector general report, which we can expect on monday. he has looked at that as something that will legiti mize -- what became the mueller investigation. so if this i.g. report comes soout and says the fbi was totally within its rights, they had enough information to go forward and open what became the russia probe, that takes a little, you know, wind out of the sails of the attorney general. so right now the justice department's official line is let's wait until we see the report, but we know and through my reporting that the justice

department has always said just wait until you see what the inspector general says, and then you will understand barr's decision to appoint john durham. >> and yet it's extraordinary that the attorney general's already getting out ahead of it and letting people know he's got a problem with a report that's not out yet. what is he basing his contradiction on? in other words the inspector general spent all these months and resources looking into the question, and attorney general barr is coming out and saying no, i think what you found is not exactly right. what's his evidence for that? >> that's interesting, the thing i think he might focus in on is we understand there was an fbi lawyer, someone very low level, who may have altered some document that led to surveillance of a trump campaign adviser. >> wouldn't the i.g. report capture that? >> yes, it would capture that, but it seems that the overall finding is still going to be, even with that piece of evidence, the fbi was in its rights and that they had enough evidence to open up what became the russia, the mueller probe.

and so to william barr, that undermines his skidecision to o up the investigation. let's not forget, he opened that investigation right after those comments to congress where he said he thought that there was spying on the president's campaign by the fbi. so he has needed the inspector general and john durham to come out to his defense. it's unclear why he's seeing this contradiction already and why he's trying to get ahead of that. right now the justice department says just keep waiting until we see it. we'll have another conversation. >> do we know the timetable for the durham report? >> not for the durham report. for the i.g. investigation we expect to see that on monday and then michael horowitz will testify. the durham report is still up in the air, which means you could be getting into 2020, well into the campaign season when the whole mueller, russia probe comes roaring back into the conversation. >> to we know anything more about the connection, the travel connection between the attorney general traveling with john

durham to european capitals? >> that is the big question. i think what the justice department has said is the attorney general has the right to go out and try to, you know, make relationships between foreign leaders in order to get them to cooperate with our law enforcement, but when you look at what this investigation is about and how politically polarizing it has been, of course that raises a lot of eyebrows. >> certainly the president and the white house had high hopes for this i.g. report, to this point have not been fulfilled. tom nichols, question for you, we saw the attorney general here publicly break with his own department. we saw the attorney general set the tone of the coverage of the mueller report when he went out ahead of the release and sort of in some people's mind prejudiced what people think about it. in terms of conservatives now thinking about how he has conducted himself in this office, is this something that a few years ago would even be conceivable for republicans or conservatives to back an attorney general acting this way? >> i don't think so, and i

think, you know, william barr is now revealing himself to be exactly who his worst critics always said he was. one of the many changes donald trump has made in our life has been to take the department of justice and turn it into, you know, his personal law firm. barr is out there trying to prove that the rest of the government was wrong in its investigation. in other words, he's trying to reverse engineer what everyone else is doing to prove that something donald trump wanted to argue was right, which really, you know, just does not make him the attorney general or an impartial arm of justice. it makes him donald trump's, you know, guy. it makes him donald trump's second in all of this, and i think for conservative, this is exactly what we would have accused liberal presidents of doing, and did accuse liberal president of doing, but no one has taken it to this kind of extreme. certainly not since the days of

richard nixon, and that's exactly what barr is doing. i mean, he's like jim carrey in liar liar saying i object, and the judge says why, and he says because it's devastating to my case. >> tom nichols, thanks for much for being on, good to have you, and david ignatius, thank you. what are you looking at today, david? >> what i'm looking at today, oh, goodness. i'm trying to make sense of how this story got rolling so fast. i think at the bottom of the political scandal there's still a financial scandal. i'm trying to find it. >> okay. and nbc's julia ainsley, your travel ban, pregnancy travel ban starts this week, right? >> yes, this is my last time on the set. >> great to have you in new york. >> thank you. >> so we will have you back as soon as you can. >> it's great to have you on. >> up next, we expect to hear more from president trump in the next half hour or so as he prepares to meet with german chancellor angela merkel.

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♪ all right. almost the top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 4th, still with joe, willie, and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, hi mike. >> hi mika. >> and "the washington post" david ignatius, and joining us the conversation former u.s. senator now an msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. former chief of staff to the dccc, adrienne elrod with a lot of moves happening in the democratic field, and white house correspondent for pbs news hour yamiche alcindor joins us. good to have you all on board this hour. we've got another big day in washington, london, and in politics. >> well, you know, another big day and we'll be talking about what's going on in london, what's going on in washington, but first, i'd love to go to claire mccaskill who served with kamala and ask her, what are

your thoughts about kamala dropping out of the race yesterday? obviously a very strong start, but it is proving to be really difficult for people to gain traction unless they're in that top tier of biden, bernie, elizabeth and now mayor pete. >> yeah, the top four kind of have things locked down, and i don't know how it's going to scramble from here. but it's a big reminder, i think, sometimes we forget how important the money thing is. you know, when you have this many candidates in the race and you are trying to scratch your way into that top tier, it's really important you have resources, and you know, some of these candidates have a great base of low donors that are giving them on the internet 10 or 15 or 20 bucks every month. other candidates have relied on some of the old fashioned fund-raisi fund-raising, which is you get in a living room, and you try to get everybody to write a check with a comma in it, and you

know, but the bottom line is kamala really needed more resources to stay relevant in all of the early states at the same time. it was clear she couldn't just do one state, and she couldn't wait until california and, frankly, california began to look tough for her, which was going to be brutal for someone from california. so i understand she is stronger than horseradish as my grandmother would say. she will be back in the arena in an important way i'm sure in the coming months and years and you haven't heard the last of kamala harris, i guarantee you. >> adrienne, it just shows you how much michael bloomberg's entrance into this race has shaken things up because the dream for the harris team from the very beginning was to do well in the early states, do well in south carolina, and then launch to super tuesday where she could do well in california. well, this race has been so brutal. just ask kamala, ask beto, ask

bullo bullock, ask all these other people who jumped into the race with high hopes are now out of it two months out before we even have the first democrat going to the first caucus in iowa. and suddenly everybody's going to be out of money by super tuesday. bloomberg comes in, says i'm going to write myself a check r for 30, $40 million, it changes the entire landscape. >> you're exactly right, joe, because a lot of these candidates are going to be spending all of their money, their very last resource trying to compete in these first four states. then you go into super tuesday, you know, joe biden, amy klobuchar, they are on track to, you know, basically be broke. i hope that that's not the case, but you contrast that with micha michael bloomberg and i think

that's the gamble the bloomberg campaign is taking. they're going to have the resources to compete in super tuesday race. of course you've got bernie sanders, elizabeth warren, mayor pete who have a very sustainable grass roots operation where they can go to folks time and time again and say give me another $19, give me another $25. that will keep them going through the campaign. joe biden's campaign has been very frank about the difficulty they've had raising grass roots donations. that's going to be a challenge for them, and going back to kamala harris, i think another thing to look at with her candidacy is she tried to sort of straddle that middle of the road, i'm not going to go as far as joe biden in terms of being that moderate, but i'm also not going to go as far as elizabeth warren and bernie sanders in terms of being for structural change, for big structural change. she sort of tried to straddle that middle of the road, and i think that she proved that that's very difficult to do in this current construct of the democratic primary candidates. >> and willie, we keep talking about it, but her getting out of the race may have contributed to this.

there were some articles about the fact that woke twitter did not represent mainstream democratic policies and mainstream democratic values. you always have to be careful when you talk about ideology and why one candidate connects in a race instead of another because, of course, the most extreme example would be in '68 after rfk's tragic death, a lot of his supporters went over to george wallace, something the family still can't figure out. but in this case you could see after the first debate, the second debate, the third debate, as the democrats were lurching left and trying to line up with the progressives on twitter, they left a lot of support behind, a lot of black voters in south carolina, across the deep south, across america did not follow them to the far reaches oc of the progressive left, and a lot of people in kamala's

campaign have talked about about that privately and publicly. it didn't work for her, and in some cases and it certainly didn't work for elizabeth warren over the past month. >> yeah, the postmortem on kamala harris's campaign actually was written, i think, six days ago in the "new york times" when they had 50 people inside the campaign complaining about how it had been run, how there was a lack of messaging, a lack of strategy on that campaign, and part of that was sort of chasing the latest twitter moment, getting a sick burn out from the communications team. we even saw it in that first debate in miami. we were there when she went after joe biden, he poll numbers spiked, but she went along with the medicare for all question, and then the next morning she came on the set with us in that restaurant in miami and we asked her to clarify would you eliminate private insurance, and she sort of hemmed and hauwed ad bumped around for months on this, i've listened to a lot of

people. we can't get rid of private insurance. it was like she was trying to find the heartbeat of progressives and straddle that line, and she never quite found herself over the months of this campaign. >> claire, can you and me, you as a true blue democrat, me as -- >> something else. >> -- a retired republican. can we come together in this moment and just help the remaining democrats in the field? if you're not bernie and you haven't been fighting this or believing this your whole life or you're not elizabeth, and you haven't already sort of laid your stake in the ground, can we tell the remaining democratic candidates it's okay to say, hey, mend obamacare. don't end it. make it better. don't worry about defending barack obama. it's okay. don't worry about like defending and embracing his legacy, 90% of democrats love him. stop looking at twitter, and

start looking at the things that barack obama achieved and ask how can you move that forward even more toward a more perfect union? >> yeah, i think campaigning on what's possible, campaigning against these prescription drug companies, you know, mcconnell right now is blocking a bill, a bipartisan bill. chuck grassley has the bill to bring down the prescription drug prices, to talk about making sure people still have choices when it comes to health care, that's what people in the midwest want to hear, that they're not going to be force fed one solution that is totally government run. that worries people, and i think there is a lot of ways you can reassure people that you're progressive, but you're also pragmatic and practical, and this is a time to unite people and get along, not to further divide people by playing just to one edge or the other, and the

other thing about obama that i think we've got to talk about is how you run a campaign. you know, running a campaign is really hard for president. it is very difficult to keep a sense of unity and purpose and mission. that's what obama did really well. he had a no drama campaign. it was highly organized and effective. all these candidates need to look at that and kind of check their house and make sure they've got all the people in place, the kind of team that's going to allow them to go through these bumps without the team becoming the story. >> so yamiche, with kamala out, you're going to be moderating the next debate, congratulations, but do you think there's an impact, especially for the democratic party to not have a person of color now on the debate stage? >> i'm really excited about co-moderating the next debate on december 19th. when it comes to senator harris getting out, i think it is striking for a lot of voters that they might be looking at a

debate with no person of color on the stage. we're talking about a democratic party that is really fueled in a lot of ways by african-american women, and they now have to look on the stage and say who is actually going to be representing me. i think that puts more pressure on the candidates who are remaining to look at their vice presidential picks and possibly make some promises to voters, and say look, i will find a way to make my cabinet, my administration representative of america. i also think the story of senator harris is about the fact that people aren't just going to vote for someone because they look like them. i remember being in south carolina talking to voters and people were talking about senator harris saying, look, i think that her problem, that her history as a prosecutor is problemat problematic. some activists have literally said to me, senator harris is a cop, and i'm not quite sure that she's really owned up to not being a progressive prosecutor. i think there were a lot of issues of trust when it came to the african-american community and senator harris. i also think that joe biden, he's holding onto this support, and i think a lot of that

support for african-americans, not just comes to the idea that he was standing next to president obama for eight years, but i talked to voters who said i don't want to overturn what president obama was trying to do. i don't want to at all overrule the fact that he thought that after looking at a bunch of people, joe biden was the best person to stand by him. that's deeper than just saying i like joe biden because he was vice president to barack obama. that's saying i'm going to choose joe biden as a representation of the fact that i still believe president obama was a good leader. i think that is something that's going to be very hard for the other kacandidates to do. michael bloomberg is already up in national polls, polling around 5%. that's remarkable, the fact that he's making this big pitch on tv line, and he's able to start showing up in the polls. that's pretty incredible. >> it really is. >> yeah, you know, mika, so yamiche asked the question, since there are not going to be people of color on the next debate stage, she asked the

question for especially african-american women who is going to be representing me. i think one of the most fascinating parts of this campaign and we're in december now, so we've moved obviously through the preliminary stages, and you know, it's race time. >> yeah. >> and at this point african-american women not only in south carolina, but across the country, have decided at least to this point that joe biden will be the person remittiremi representing them on stage. black voters are extremely pragmatic, yes, great, as reverend al said, yes, great, great, i'm glad that there's somebody running that looks like me, but can they win? can they beat donald trump? can they forward what i think is best not only for the country but for my community. can they follow through on a lot

of barack obama's promises? can they continue that legacy and make it better, update it, push it forward into the future? i really, i think that's one of the biggest miscalculations that most of these candidates have made up to this point. some of them were running against the obama legacy, and joe biden was left in this perfect position to be the defender of a man who is beloved by nine out of ten democrats. that is a pretty good political position to be in on a debate stage. if you're the one person, if you're the one guarantor, the one defender of the realm of obama out of 20, you're going to be at the front of the pack. >> yeah. now let's move to president trump's time in london at the nato summit meeting, and these lead lines from the "new york times" best sum up what's gone

down so far. president trump has always relished throwing european leaders off balance, antagoni antagonizing allies, embracing insurgents and setting off a frantic contest for how best to deal with him. now as europe undergoes dizzying political changes of its own, it is throwing mr. trump off balance. for a president who prides himself on being the great disrupter, it was a startling turnabout, one that underscored how europe's shifting landscape has scrambled the calculus for mr. trump. which brings us to this moment from yesterday where french president macron, british prime minister johnson, and canadian prime minister trudeau were caught in a seemingly hot mic moment.

>> nbc news has not confirmed who the world leaders were discussing. representatives for johnson and macron issued no comments when asked about the video in question, but we can do some math. president trump's remarks along side nato's secretary stoltenberg were slated for 20 minutes as the first event of the day. according to the official white house transcript, the meeting ran approximately 53 minutes. like wise, president trump's midday meeting with french president macron lasted around 38 minutes. they were making fun of him. >> yeah, if you're driving in the car you couldn't hear that audio, but you had prime minister trudeau saying his team's jaw dropped to the floor. he took 40 minutes. >> we haven't corroborated that, but it's pretty clear when you watch it, it is obvious they're talking about him. they're mocking him, and they have very little respect for him at all, if any. >> prime minister boris johnson in there and president macron as well. lets bring in chief white house

correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker. about an hour from now we'll see another meeting between president trump ask a world leader when he sits down with chancellor angela merkel. usually as you know well those pool sprays last a couple of minutes. they mooiight answer a shouted question. yesterday they were ranging from 40 minutes to 55 minutes. >> you cannot predict him. you cannot schedule him. you cannot rein him in when it comes to these kinds of events. he can go on for 40 minutes because he just -- he enjoys the back and forth. he enjoys the give and take, and he wants to control the message. as my colleague wrote this morning, it's an odd turnabout where the europeans in some ways are kind of keeping him off balance these days. macron, president macron of france yesterday, you know, was sort of the aggressor in some ways, president trump found himself actually defending nato against president macmacron's criticism. that's an odd reversal of roles, and it shows that they're kind of three years in to the trump

presidency sort of getting used to him and taking, you know, and you moving on without trying to let him dominate and change everything to suit his own needs. he's a presence. they have to deal with him the way he is, but they're not going to allow him to be the only player on the stage. >> peter having covered this president nearly every day throughout his term, have we bumped into a seminole moment in his presidency overseas when president macron turns kbrie eyeball to eyeball to donald trump and says let's be serious. i mean, no one's ever done that to this president before, and he is nonconfrontational, loves to bull little people in the background and outside of a circle not eyeball to eyeball, but let's be serious. what do you think is going to be the ramifications of that? >> yeah, i think it shows you how much things have changed. of course president macron's initial strategy of dealing with president trump was one of

flattery, one of warmth and wrapping himself around the president. you remember that visit in washington a couple years back now i guess in which they were literally holding hands. president trump reaches over and brushes the dust off president macron's jacket, the body language yesterday very different. these are two men who are not in the same place. president macron has decided that strategy didn't work. he's going to have to deal with president trump. he's still trying to find ways of bridging the dwad. he was trying as recently as august in france during the g-7 to bring president trump together with iran, but i think he's made clear he's not going to, you know, lie down for president trump either. he's trying to be the leader of europe in some ways. angela merkel is in the twilight stage of her chancellorship, boris johnson is consumed with getting england and britain out of europe. >> i'm curious, is there any back talk there about the

floater that trump has done about pulling putin into some of these organizations and that putin and russia need to be part of this? is that actually being discussed offline at nato this year? >> well, i think it's being discussed because the president is hard to ignore altogether, the president of the united states, any president of the united states brings up issues like that. then they have to be put on the table, but there's no real appetite for bringing russia back into the g-7 or bringing russia into these international organizations right now. it's five years since their incursion, their invasion of eastern ukraine, their seizure of crimea and annexation of territory. remember, this is the first time that, you know, the borders of europe have changed since world war ii via force, and most europeans are very nervous about doing anything that seems to reward that. there's been no movement by president putin in the last year or two or three to actually, you know, change that situation or make up for it or find some way

to resolve that conflict, and so it's simply allowing him back in according to the europeans, would be to embolden him and embolden others who would say, yeah, this didn't actually cost him anything. he's able to use troops, use force without any ramification. >> so david ignatius, beyond the grudge is beyond the snippy side remarks, beyond the press conferences, beyond the mutterings at buckingham palace that are picked up on tape, let's talk about the issues that nato has to address and looking forward how are they addressing them, and will we move forward positively on areas like iran who obviously right now is in a critical moment and obviously donald trump wants to renegotiate a nuclear deal that the rest of europe may not be willing to renegotiate.

isis, obviously on the mind of a r lot of people in london and across great britain after the attacks last week, and russia, peter talked about trump wanting to bring russia into g-7 and also obviously -- obviously bring vladimir putin back to the center of the world stage in a more respectful way, and again, and of course trade, which has hit the front of the headlines again this week with donald trump's latest tangling with emmanuel macron. >> joe, the nato alliance at bottom is the promise that the united states, the nuclear superpower will go to war, will go to nuclear war to protect the nations of europe that are part of the nato alliance. so every nato meeting always really is about the credibility of that alliance. that's why there's all the show

and the consultations and pictures inn't f front of flags. it's all about reassuring nato members and our adversaries that this alliance is for real, that we really would do this. donald trump has thrown that whole idea over, you know, he treats nato as a what have you done for me lately kind of game, and that's, i think, at the core of the problems that we're seeing here. macron of france sees an opportunity to project french power in different ways playing a key role as an intermediary are wi with iran. he's also started up a new initiative with russia between france and russia to try to do his own diplomacy. he'd love to put himself in the middle east as a mediator taking up a spot the united states traditionally filled. so i think as we said last hour, we see european nations hedging against this fact of declining

american leadership, trying to assert new roles for themselves, just to add one final word, it's strange to me that we are watching this nato meeting at the same time that the bloodiest uprising in iran against the clerical leadership of supreme leader ali khamenei, more than 200 dead, almost a thousand wounded, maybe 7,000 arrested. it's an enormous crackdown, and this nato alliance key powers basically had fnothing to say about it so far. >> can i say, david, one thing about iran, and we haven't talked enough about it this week. i think what is so fascinating about these protests and what's really so telling and should be

doubly concerning for the regime there, is back in 2009 -- we've talked about this before -- there was almost a red state, blue state iran. a rural iran that supported the more conservative -- when i say conservative, islamic leadership there in iran, and a blue state iran, the more educated, the more urban who are leading the protests. this protest seems to be coming actually from more working class districts, more rural districts. it's not just among professors or the well-educated in tehran. this seems to be far more widespread. david, is it more troubling -- should it be more troubling to the iranian revolutionary leadership that's run that country since 1979? >> i'm sure that it is, joe, that's why they're killing so many people. they're scared. so these protests began november 15 as best we know with an increasing gas prices.

iran has terrible economic problems, and they stuck bigger bills on average working iranians and they got angry, and they went in the streets. at the same time, there are these other social movements, women saying i'm not going to wear the veil anymore. i'm going to go out in public, i'm going to dance without my veil on. i'm going to show who i am. you have many different strands of protests, and they all come together in this, from what we know if you look at the videos, there have been thousands of videos posted online of the demonstrators, of people getting killed, some gruesome videos. you will see this is broad across the nation. it's broad across different ethnic groups in iran. it is something that we all need to take more seriously because there's a real uprising going on here against a regime that has been among the leading suppressors of human rights in the world. >> let's bring in the former nato supreme allied commander,

obviously you and many others have been looking at what's been happening in iran over the past several weeks. why does your take right now on what it looks like today and what it may be looking like over the next few weeks to a months and what should the united states of america do at this point? >> yeah, i agree with david by and large. certainly the regime is very concerned. they've moved very rapidly to crush this thing down, and they're also using cyber and social networks very effectively in this regard to target individual protesters. they're not quite as sophisticated as china in that regard, but i'd say they're in the very top tier of authoritarian nations using high-tech effectively, so they are concerned they're going to continue to press down hard. what we should be doing, joe, lets take it back to nato, is use that organization, nato as a

praise where we can move these conversations. today you're going to see the summit shift to talk about china in nato, which is a really interesting conversation, but i'm hoping we're going to see iran emerge as a talking point at least in the final communique, and over time nato has a role to play here as the military element of the coalition that i hope can pressure the iranians to come back to the bargaining table. it's going to be complicated, but there is a nato role to play in this crisis as well. >> how pushed are the iranians to possibly come back to the table? these protests obviously even more dramatic, eveni more -- moe of a crisis for the iranian leadership than those ten years ago in 2009. >> absolutely, and that is the

key question for us going forward, and here's what i would say. we need to do this internationally, and that's not just nato. it's continue to kind of broaden the problem set. we need also, joe, to have our interagency working extremely closely here. i feel state department, department of defense, cia are kind of riding at different speeds on the bicycle right now, so international, interagency, and then in the sanctions world, with we can target these sanctions very effectively. that's a private, public kind of option that can be played. all of it needs to be undergirded by work in cyber and cyber security and combatting the social network propaganda lines that are coming out of tehran today, so we've got work to do. we have a lot of tools at our disposal. i don't feel they're in sync yet in washington. >> all right, and i want to go to yamiche before we close, just get a sense of what the word is from the white house given this

split screen day, the mockery from abroad, and the growing evidence in impeachment. >> well, the white house is really going to be doing some counter programming. the president has a press conference scheduled for 10:30. he's going to be asked about the impeachment inquiry. we expect he's requestigoing to against it. the press secretary saying the report was nothing new when the house democrats put out a pretty lengthy exhibit of call logs and all sorts of things showing that rudy giuliani and white house officials were definitely working together and devin nunes, the president's ally and a top ranking official on house intelligence, that he was in touch with now this person who was indicted for campaign finance violations, lev parnas. but i think when it comes to nato he's also going to be asked about his role in the icy welcome he's getting there. maybe someone will be brave enough to ask about justin trudeau saying that his staff was really surprised by the fact that he's been having these 40-minute press conferences.

it's going to be quite a day. president trump understands tv so he's going to be wanting people to watch his press conference while other people are going to be watching this public impeachment inquiry hearing. claire mccaskill looking ahead at the impeachment inquiry. the facts have been flaramed ou by a number of witnesses, and now we're getting a lot of color. there seems to be more and more, and the white house digging in with just absolute lies and insults. the president almost screaming about adam schiff being a sick man. what's your gut on how this moves forward? do they still dig in? do republicans still dig in on this? >> yeah, they do, and what will happen in this committee, unfortunately, these are not fact witnesses today. these are academic witnesses today. so what's going to happen is all the members of the judiciary committee are going to see this as the moment for them to spout off. >> right. >> and especially his defenders, and they will be dramatic and nadler is going to have to keep

control of it, but they are really going to try, his defenders on the committee, to do well for their guy that is watching across the pond. >> and it's not awkward at all, by the way, with all these hearings like devin nunes asking questions, and then you see that he's in it. i mean, there's evidence that he's somehow connected with the scandal. >> the notion that he was sitting on that dyess knowing that those phone records existed. >> explain why that's a problem. >> he is running the show for the republican party when he is directly implicated in this conspiracy to leverage military assistance for political help from a foreign entity. that is outrageous. >> it's incredible. >> and the fact that republicans are not taking him out of the picture at this point. >> it's incredible. >> is unbelievable to me. >> it's like there's blinders. joining us now member of the financial services committee, democratic congresswoman katie porter of california, and member of the house homeland security

and veterans affairs committees democratic congressman max rose of new york. he is also a veteran of the war in afghanistan and a recipient of the bronze star and purple heart. together they are introducing a new bill today entitled the transparency in executive branch officials finances act. it would require increased accountability and clarity of political appointees and direct family members of both the president and the vice president. so we'll get to that in just a moment. it sown liunds like it's needed that's for sure. katie, i'll start with you. as we look ahead to impeachment, what stands out to you? what questions still need to be asked at this point, and your republican counter parts, are you hearing anything behind the scenes where they may stand up for facts? >> well, i think what's going to go on today in terms of continuing to make information aware -- make information available to the american people

about the constitutional requirements of impeachment is really important. we've had those fact witnesses who have sprain who have explained some of what has happened, but we continue to learn more. it's also important to give the american people the information they need about what the constitution says here. regardless of party, regardless of where people are today on impeachment, they want to trust that folks in congress on both sides of the aisle are following the law and upholding the constitution. and so i think the process of the chairman releasing the report yesterday summarizing what happened, everyday americans don't have time to watch hours and hours of hearings. they're counting on their representatives on both sides of the aisle to be true to the constitution. so i hope that that hearing today helps convince the american people that's what we're at work doing. >> mike. >> max, the federal appeals court yesterday ruled that deutsche bank has to turn over a bunch of financial documents having to do with the president of the united states. your proposed bill that the two

of you are proposing, what would the bill do to an existing candidacy if it were enacted right now? >> sure, so happy holidays, my friend. so what this bill is about is accountability and transparency, irrespective of party, whether it's a president, vice president, or an executive appointee, we will expand the financial disclosure forms to include their direct family. this bill would mandate that they divulge or reveal their last five years of tax returns and i think most importantly, the financial disclosure form for their family members would include any foreign business dealings with their private companies. the truth soof the matter is th the american people do not trust their government anymore. they don't trust the process, and i actually understand where they're coming from. sunlight is the best disinfectant, and we have got to shine a light on what is happening in our political process down here in washington, d.c.

>> it's willie geist, so lets talk specifically about this administration, which i assume has compelled you all to take up this idea, which is that you have a president of the united states who is de facto still running businesses he ran before he was president through his children, through his family. what documents would you like to see from this administration, what more would you like to know? >> this bill is about what's going on on both sides of the aisle. it's about a problem that existed before president trump came along. it's about a problem that if we don't act, if we don't pass this bill, that max and i have proposed, will continue to exist. so the reality is there's a lot of foreign business dealings. this is a more global economy than it was two decades ago or 100 decades ago or certainly when the constitution was written. we need to know whether our executive office members including the president, vice president, political appointees and their children are engaged in business dealings in foreign countries. it raises both national security concerns but also corruption

concerns. political appointees are involved in dealing with foreign countries and with foreign business, with commerce. you think about the commerce secretary role, the role of the secretary of state, the trade representative, these are all people that if they have personal or their family has personal financial interests in what's going on, the american people need to know that so they can be evaluating whether that official is really holding the public trust or not. >> folks, i think the bill is terrific. my question to you is seems to me you may have the secret sauce here because the republicans will scream biden and the democrats will scream trump. do you have republican members that are on board? do you have any republican senators? do you have any hope that this will escape the mitch mcconnell graveyard, even if you get it through the house? >> all right well, we certainly are hoping and praying that this bill will become bipartisan. we see no reason why it shouldn't, and of course with

mitch mcconnell's legislative graveyard, we'll have to wait and see. what i do think this bill puts the question before the american people is whose side are you on? are you on the side of people working their hearts out each and every day that aren't engaging in foreign dealings, can't afford a lobbyist, or are you objen the side of the swamp? are you on the side of the intergenerational swamp that has allowed ivanka trump to continue to get trademarks from east asia, that has allowed don jr. and eric to globe trot around the world engaged in secret business dealings or are you on the side of people who haven't seen real wage group and have two-hour commutes each and every day. >> what we're proposing to do is to make something -- is to bring sunlight to a problem that's too often been in the dark. and you know, you're absolutely right that there are situations on both sides of the aisle. what hunter biden did wasn't

illegal, but i think the american people should have known about it going forward. i'd like to correct this problem. one of the reasons i'm delighted to be working with max on this, we've represented districts on both sides of the country. we represent folks who are republican, democrat, independent, but they sent people like max and me to congress in 2018 because they wanted us to stabbed nd up to corruption. that means not just their elected representatives, that means political appointees and executive branch officials too. >> congresswoman katie porter and congressman max rose, thank you, both, appreciate it. before we go, peter baker, what are you looking at today? >> obviously we're going to be looking at the split screen you talked about earler, the president on the world stage, his very presidency at stake are a big debate here at washington. that's a rather remarkable thing. we kind of lose sight of how many remarkable things we see in the last three years. this one should stand out. it is a big moment. the president says it's unpatriotic to be talking about

impeachment while he's out of the country. we saw that same debate 21 years ago, the president of the united states was bombing iraq at the same time the house impeached him. the republicans delayed that vote by one day but refused to delay it by more. now we see democrats moving forward on impeachment, i think that that sort of dichotomy brings home, you know all that's at stake here, both domestically and internationally for this president and this country. >> peter, thank you, and adrian el rod before you go, kamala has stepped down wharks , what do y of the 2020 field? >> i'm watching to see how mayor bloomberg does and can you buy your way into this election process. he's refusing individual donations to qualify and make it for the december 19th debate. you've got to raise 200,000 grass roots donations over 20 states, so the question is is he able to go forward in this primary without being on the debate stage, and how much can

money buy you? >> it's a big one, thank you, adrienne. yamiche alcindor, congratulations, thanks for being on this morning. cory booker joins the conversation. first we'll have live coverage of president trump's meeting with german president angela merkel. "morning joe" is back in a second. "morning joe" is back ina second - [spokeswoman] meet the ninja foodi pressure cooker,

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the reason nato is so successful, the reason it provides peace and security for 29 countries, a billion people, is because of the very simple concept of safety in numbers. at the heart of it is a pledge that we will come to one another's defense, all for one, one for all. that is the core of the article v nato security guarantee, and

it works. it provides peace, prosperity for hundreds of millions of people. >> all right, that was boris johnson this morning after president trump seemed non-committal yesterday about the founding nato principles of mutual defense. claire, are you okay? >> what's with his hair? >> oh, right, i get you. >> clearly that's on purpose. is he trying to do a bernie thing here. clearly he tried to make it look like he's under combing his hair. is that something i'm missing in politics, if your hair looks rumpled? >> don't look at barnicle. >> it just is amazing to me. it's distracting from what he's saying. you're going why the hell didn't the guy comb his hair? >> i think he worked on that. >> it's a look. sorry, i digress, but i thought it was an important point to make. >> hair aside, boris johnson does raise a point that the president, he has been noncommittal about the mutual

defense pact. he explicitly refused to endorse article v, which is the mutual defense, and last year i was with him in brussels when he sent word that the united states might pull out of nato. this is something even boris johnson in terms of trump's european allies is closer to the president than most. >> no support of article v means no nato. >> let's bring back in admiral james detectivritus, not to com on the hair, but on the concept of what is happening and the attitude of this president towards nato. >> first of all, i want to say i look at joe scarborough as a potential donor over time. we'll discuss that later. >> yeah, it's crazy. article v, absolutely the beating heart of nato, and it's been skipping a few beats lately. i remember when i was supreme allied commander, went into the

job, the first thing that confronted me weres a sto eston latvia, lithuania, these tiny baltic countries that were so concerned whether we would come to their aid. president obama was careful to constantly hit that bell. at the end of the day, nato is a highly capable structure, but it's a political alliance, and the center of gravity of that political alliance is always going to be article v. it's also, i think, mika why this conversation coming up with the president and angela merkel is going to be so interesting. i know the chancellor well. she will hold her own. >> mike barnicle. >> admiral, let's get back to iran. given donald trump's attacks on nato over the past two or three years, his attitude toward nato, in terms of pulling together a plan where nato would be involved in what is going on in iran, and that whole region, which country is now the leading

proponent? >> the united states is a strong proponent of doing this, joe, and sometimes you hear a discussion, sort of an interesting side bar to this iranian question, back to the arab wor arab world, you hear the term the nato of the arabs. i think the united states is quietly working. i don't think, i know, is quietly working and speaking with saudi arabia, the gulf states, egypt, jordan, the arab states who look across the arabian gulf or the persian gulf, pick your term at iran and are deeply concerned about it. nato is kind of a stiffener to incorporate our arab allies. by the way, as you know, mike, this is the coalition against the islamic state. that's a pretty good foundation to kind of build on this idea of confronting iran with allies, partners, and friends. the u.s. can push that forward. we can get some help on it from

the brits, some help on it from the french with a push there are real possibilities there. >> admiral, it's jonathan lemire, we're waiting for the president to meet with german chancellor merkel. we've just learned in an event that was not on the white house schedule, he just had a half hour meeting with erdogan of turkey. the turkish put out a photo on twitter. the white house has confirmed the meeting. what do you make of this, the fact that the president has continued to cozy up to erdogan. he also yesterday refused to condemn him while he was sitting with macron. what sort of message is that signaling to others at nato? >> yeah, the challenge here are these kind of centrifugal forces we've been talking about for two days now that are pulling at the alliance. from the u.s. side, jonathan, it's this ambivalence about article v, from the french, the brain dead comment, the concern about the u.s. potentially leaning back, and the other big one is what you just mentioned. it's turkey, and that is real

centrifugal force. here's turkey buying the s-400 russian air defense system, conducting joint patrols with russia on the turkish/syrian border. erdogan increasingly oppressive within turkey, all of those are deeply concerning, so i'm kind of a two minds as far as high level engagement goes. it's good for the president and the vice president and the secretary of state to talk to our turkish partners at the political level and pressure them. unfortunately, and i think this goes to the clandestine nature of this meeting, i doubt that's what happened behind closed doors, and i am concerned that the signal that is sent is quiet support for an authoritarian regime. that's not the right message for the united states in the merkel have hans nichols standing by for us in london. as we've discussed, merkel and

trump have a complicated personal relationship, president trump has questioned how much germany is spending on defense. and i'm also reminded that fe a after president trump said some american congress women should go back where they came from, she said i distance myself, it undermines american strength, i stand with those women. >> reporter: these two leaders come from such different positions. not just backgrounds and upbringings, but they look at the world fundamentally differently. angela merkel has made a hallmark of her chancellorship looking out ward, trying to keep the european union together. when she was a young woman in east germany, she won a scholarship to go to moscow to study the language there. so she always liked liking

outward when there was reunification, that was her big push. president trump talks about america first and we saw this so clearly yesterday. at least he professes and i stress profess, professes that he doesn't care if he is unpopul unpopular in these countries because he is here advocating for america and he is clear that that is the way he sees his role here. and this will be a fascinating meeting. not just the body language and whatnot, but to what extent does president trump prosecute his case against nato in front of angela merkel. and nudge her and if not nudge maybe prod her to spend more. because and i think theed a m a would agree that germany probably should spend more on defenses. and merkel even within her own cabinet has been criticized for that. so we'll see whether or not the president lodges the charge and what merkel's responsibility is.

>> so hans, stand by. we'll try to get a break in here but of course at any moment president trump will meet with the german chancellor and we'll take that heating limeeting liv. and also we'll get an update on the impeachment inquiry and claire's take on devin nunes. all of that coming up. that com. surprise! a new buick? for me? to james, from james. that's just what i wanted.

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a live look at capitol hill at 56 pasted hou ethe hoyer. hour. a lot going on in london as we a weights the president meeting with angela merkel. we'll be taking that live when it happens. that meeting should be fascinating even just the dynamics between the two leaders, especially in light of video that we revealed earlier to you of several world leaders mocking president trump. the dynamic has shifted completely. i don't think that it is really that easy to find the words to describe the major shift in america's place in the world as it pertains to president trump. and the way other world leaders

treat him, the way they want to be seen next to him, and exactly what the relationship is with america. and our supreme power that does not exist anymore in the eyes of so many abroad. we want to get thousand now to revelations in the impeachment report, phone logs are connecting key players ins investigation, rudy giuliani, his indicted associate lev parnas, and republican congressman devin nunes whose name was mentioned 49 times in the intel report. also under scrutiny, giuliani's contacts with the white house office of management and budget. and a game of phone tag on april 9 between giuliani and a mysterious number from the white house. that call lasted more than eight minutes. as the "new york times" reports, house investigators suspect that the number may belong to president trump in part because of evidence from the roger stone trial which showed stone who had direct being a test access to t

also received a call from that same mysterious number. the call records show that around that time, giuliani, nunes and parnas were in frequent contact with john solomon, a columnist for "the hill," who published a series of popinion pieces criticizing mare yovanovitch days after one published on april 7, phone records show several calls between giuliani, parnas, nunes and solomon. and including three short calls in quick succession followed by a text message and ending with a nearly three minute call. phone records also show that on april 24th, the day that yovanovitch was recalled to washington, giuliani spoke at least eight times with a white house phone number. giuliani has previously acknowledged pressing trump to

remove the ambassador from her post. here is what ranking member devin nunes said late last night about those call logs. >> maybe they have the recordings of my phone calls with rudy giuliani. they are welcome to play them because everything that i spoke with rudy giuliani about is nothing that i wouldn't care if the american people found out. >> did you ever talk to this guy lev parnas? >> it is possible, but i haven't gone through all my phone records. i don't really recall that name. you know, i remember the name now because he's been indicted. i'll go back and check my record, but it seems very unlikely that i would be taking calls from random people. >> a lawyer for parnas says that nunes and his client were focused on investigations into corruption in ukraine adding that they weren't talking about where to find sushi in kiev. claire, i'm confused as to how devin nunes could not remember

talking to lev or giuliani given these call logs. like how would you forget that? >> he's lying. he knows he talked to him. he knows that this guy was part of a deal to try to leverage this country into helping his president, his pal, stay in office. and he is just lying. and that tells you all you need to know about this whole defense of the president. they watched the president lie day after day after day and they all think that it is okay to lie too now. >> so you have a long career as a prosecutor before you became a senator. and i just want to ask you about lying. because is it -- there are things that people forget. i mean, it is very possible that he forgets these phone calls or how is it impossible? >> well, i got news for everybody. when the guy you've been talking to you and you are the ranking member of a committee of

jurisdiction and you have a very heated situation, i mean he was in the middle of all this back then, and the guy gets indicted? it really is stupid for you to lie on tv and say you don't recall it. the guy has been indicted. he is under criminal indictment in this country. and the notion that nunes is going huh, what, me? i didn't talk to him eight or nine times. >> so how is he leading these hearings? how is it possible that -- >> because trump wants him there, that is why. and trump is in charge of the republican party. the only person who is out there that every once in a while -- >> does it trigger a conflict of interest? >> it should. >> i mean if he was on the level, which he is not, he would have recused himself. >> they forcibly recused himself on part of this, remember, he had to step aside because he ran up there to the white house and gave classified information and all that. >> but you know from your past as a prosecutor, a phone log like this is literally an

electronic finger print. it gives you an idea of the case that you are building, a case of where to go in terms of the prosecution. jonathan and i were talking about this earlier. the phone logs themselves, i've made a couple calls, i've not been able to get an answer, maybe you have, how long has the committee had those phone logs and why if they have had them for some period of time were not any of the witnesses asked about the phone logs? i understand the obstruction of justice involved here without key witnesses being -- answering subpoenas to the house, but how long have they had the phone logs? >> it is a great question. we're not sure yet. the reporting that we've done and others, the white house has in order said. this becauwas sort of the bombs in the report that links not just nunes, but also the calls with rudy giuliani and the mysterious white house number and also a number that we do know, omb. >> is that mulvaney? >> could be mulvaney.

again, jochb ebohn bolton, agai drug deal involved mulvaney. and giuliani's role as personal attorney does not apply to any sort of suggestion to omb so it raises questions what exactly are they discussing and the timing would suggest that it is about the ukraine matter. >> and devin nunes wasn't your garden variety republican going on fox news and defending the president. he was the ranking member and it turns out he maybe should have been a witness in that hearing. >> and the point is on the phone records, the only person whose phone records were relevant that was in the room at those he hearings was devon my nin nunest much those witnesses probably would have said i don't know about the phone calls, it is not my numb. and so that is probably why if they had them, they didn't use them. but you know, we got to quit calling rudy giuliani his personal lawyer. he wasn't calling omb about

trump's divorce or about his will or about his personal finances. he was calling about his campaign. he is his campaign lawyer and he is operating illegally in that context. >> so during a senate hearing on the future of u.s. policy toward russia yesterday, u.s. diplomat david hale disputed the growing conspiracy theory being advanced by president trump and some republican lawmakers that ukraine interfered in the 2016 presidential election. >> are you aware of any evidence that ukraine interfered in the 2016 u.s. election? >> i'm not. >> you know, i appreciate dr. fiona hill's testimony before the house, former national security council, director for europe and russia, who said that that theory is a fictional narrative that is being propagated by the russian security services themselves. do you have any reason to disagree with dr. hill?

>> i do not. >> david ignatius, what do you make of that? also in terms of these calls that we're talking about, hard not to get completely distracted by the fact that devin nunes leading the hearings is doing some of these calls, but what did this later information of all these calls tell us? >> david hale is such a mild mannered witness that it was easy i think for people not to get the importance of what he just said. he just said that in effect the argument that president trump, devin nunes and other republican defenders of trump have been making about ukraine's role in manipulating the 2016 u.s. presidential election, which senator richard burr said was equivalent to that of russia, this seniorist d u.s. diplomat

there is no evidence that he is aware of to support that. it is an extraordinary situation where the professionals in cia, fbi, state department, across the government are saying this is not true and republican political leaders continue to assert it. it is one of the collisions that i think is ahead as we go forward in this impeachment process and people should pay attention to it. on this question of nunes and his role, i'm reminded of everybody is up on the wire and they have this connection and that connection, but they can't hear the actual conversation yet. we have tantalizing evidence of giuliani, nunes, others talking probably with trump at key moments in this ukraine story, but we just don't know the substance yet. again, that is what the next

phase is going to push for. i can't imagine that they had these records and didn't question people about what they said. >> and that point that you just raised, the call logs, rudy giuliani, his calls to nunes, pompeo, to omb, you wonder whether anyone at the justice department -- not the justice department but the intelligence committ committee, have they ever looked at the it rreco statute? >> yeah, seeing it before, it is a racketeering indictment. but unfortunately we don't yet know what they talked about. >> and we have, claire, on april 24th, giuliani calling the white house seven times.

what else happened on april 24th? marie yovanovitch the ambassador to ukraine was recalled. remember she got that call, pack your things for your own security, you have 00 g security, you've got to get back. and that is rudy giuliani calling the white house on the same day that that took place. >> and this desperately calls for all of rudy giuliani's call records. because what were the other calls that were being made that day? obviously into the ukraine. he was going back and forth and saying see, now we got rid of her, now you've got to given us the investigation into the bid n bidens. you have to help us out on our political effort to reelect this president with help from a foreign nation. totally illegal. so there needs to be all of giuliani's call records. and if he wasn't talking to the president, where is the denial? the white house is ererily silet on these phone records. they know that is trump talking to these folks back and forth during this whole effort to use military aid to help him

politically. >> the issue with obtaining all of giuliani's call logs is going to be a lot of butt dials to reporters. >> exactly. why does he do that? doesn't he lock his phone? >> i've gotten a few including once a mistaken face time call from the former mayor in which he was trying to -- sounded like -- it was a darkened room, there was a female voice too. and i thought to myself where is this going and they were simply looking at flights to atlanta. >> does anybody remember the quaint days of emails being a breach of security on our personal server? i cannot imagine how the trump supporters are digesting the notion of the lack of security around all of these issues. it is blatant and obvious that they could care less about security of important information. >> they just want it done. all right. we are awaiting this meeting with the president and angela merkel. and it is going a little late.

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breaking news, the meeting has finally begun. angela merkel and president trump meeting in london. let's listen in. [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: yes, i would agree thats with had a very successful meeting indeed, on this occasion 75th anniversary of nato. we discussed a number of strategies that are very important to secure the future of this alliance and it was a very constructive debate that we had and this is why i'm also very satisfied with the meeting.

and we shall talk about bilateral issues. >> okay. thank you very much, even. thank you. >> can we talk about the erdogan meeting, sir? did you discuss with him the nato -- >> i discussed with him everything. we discussed a lot. we had a meeting unscheduled, but we've already put out a notice. it was a very good meeting i think. we discussed syria. we discussed the kurds. we discussed numerous things and we're getting along very well. the border and avenue zosafe zo working out very well. and i give a lot of credit to turkey for that. the cease fire is holding very much. and i think people are surprised. and maybe some day they will give me credit, but probably not. but it worked out well, they have been trying to do this for 100 years. that border is a mess for a long time. we pulled our soldiers out, we

took over the oil, we have soldiers where the oil is. that is the way i like it. and they can police their own border and that is what they are doing. they can use other countries if they want. if they want to spend the time and energy, they can. but this is a border that has been under siege for many decades and it was time for us to leave and we left. and it's been holding very nicely. so we're very happy. we talked about that. >> are they committed to protecting -- the nato commitment to protect the baltics and poland? >> oh, yeah, they have been very good. frankly, a lot of people pay great respect to turkey for the work they have done. and we had a number of mentions where they were mentioned specifically. no, they have been doing a good job and also on the border and the safe zone and they have h d held -- obvious ln whichl lobvie were some skirmishes. >> can you explain why rudy

giuliani would need to talk to the budget office? >> i really don't though. you'd have to ask him. sounds like something that is not is so complicated. but you'd have to ask him. no big deal. >> germany makes it nine companies now that are circumventing your sanctions against iran. have you talked when that with the chancellor? >> no, but we will. i won't say what i'm going to say, but we will be talking about a number of things. we'll have a good meeting. [ inaudible question ] >> say it again. >> will you ask for patience? >> we haven't really determined that yet. i do think that it is a problem, but a problem that germany will have to work out for themselves. maybe for germany it won't be a problem. i hope it is not actually. but we'll be talking about that. >> mr. president, what did you respond to president putin's offer on a moratorium for medium

range missile systems? >> we're talking to russia about many things, including a cessation on nuclear and nuclear creation. it is in my opinion the biggest problem the world has today. i think it is bigger than any other problem the world has today and we're working very hard on it. he wants to see something happen and so do i. and so does china. >> do you talk about trade? >> we'll be talk about everything. trade is very important. germany is a very big trading partner, but it has been really the european union and we've been discussing it for quite a while. it has been a little tough. we've had a very bad imbalance for many years, for decades actually. and we're discussing that right now. so i think that we'll come to a

satisfactory conclusion. [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: i think that the fact that there is a new commission in place and also under the leadership of a new president of the european commission that now we have a very good basis to resume our trade talks. >> meetings have been set up. and we'll talk. and i believe that it will work out very well for everybody. and i think it should. we have some very tough barriers to get over. they have created barriers as angela knows very well and making it hard for the united states really to openly trade. and that can't be done. so we'll be talking about that and other things. i think that we will solve it. we do a lot of business, but they do much more business than

us. and we'll change it. i've been saying this for the last six months, the last year. and we've made progress, but we will make a lot of progress. and we just want fairness. we have to have fairness in trade. and not only with the eu, but with many other countries. we're talking to china as you know, those discussions are going very well and we'll see what happens. but we're talking to china and others. we made a deal with south korea, with japan. the japan deal is a partial deal. the rest will come next year. but we've made already many deals. we're looking -- the big deal is the usmca with canada and mexico. and nancy pelosi has to put it out for a vote. she doesn't have to talk to anybody. she doesn't have to talk to any of her democrats because they will approve it. and their constituents want it approved very badly. so that is where we are. we've made a lot of deals. and this is a deal that i think will be -- the eu is actually

one of the more difficult deals that we have because it has gone on for a long time unchecked. but it will get there i'm sure. [ inaudible question ] >> he is two-faced. >> do you think germany is too naive -- >> honestly, he is a nice guy. i find him to be a very nice guy. but the truth is that i called him out on the fact that he is not paying 2%. and i guess he's not very happy about it. i mean, you were there. a couple much you were there. and he is not paying 2% and he should be paying 2%. it is canada, they have money and they should be paying 2%. so i called him out on that and i'm sure he wasn't a happy about it, but that is the way it is. i'm representing the u.s. and he should be paying more than he's paying. and he understands that. so i can imagine he is not that happy, but that is the way it is. >> mr. president, where are you in terms of pursuing the other allies in terms of allowing china to build 5g networks?

>> i'm not working very hard on that, but i do think that it is a security risk. it is a security danger. and i spoke to italy and they look like they are not going to go forward with that. we spoke to other countries, they won't go forward. everybody i spoke to is not going forward, but how many countries canky speak to? am i going to speak to the whole world? it is a security risk. we're building it and we've started, but we're not using huawei. >> will you say germany is not paying enough in terms of defense spending? >> germany is a little under the limit i'll say that, but we'll talk about that now. thank you very much, everybody. thank you very much. just for purposes of this, we'll be having a meeting with the 2% people and we're having another meeting with denmark and then we'll probably go directly back to washington. because i can't imagine -- will

we discuss greenland, what do you think? you know me. that is good. she must be in the real estate business. so we'll go directly back. i think we've done plenty of recent conferences. unless you are demanding a press conference, we'll do one, but i think we've had plenty of questions. and again, let me just finish by saying that we've had a tremendous two days. i think nato is stronger than it has ever been. a lot more money is being produced by a lot of countries and they are enthusiastic about it and within three years you will be talking to four committing to $400 billion more. and not by the united states, by other countries. so it has been very successful today and there is great spirit. thank you very much, everybody. thank you. >> you are watching breaking news here. president trump speaking alongside chancellor far kper.

>> caller: angela merkel band our live coverage is continuing here. joe, among the word salad that the president was putting out there in the past ten minutes, he talked about his unscheduled saying it was a good meeting. he talked about the trade situation. he talked about nato and that is where it got a little jarring calling justin trudeau two-faced. he said that he was two-faced and then three seconds later said that he was a nice guy. which i guess you could call that two-faced because can you be two-faced and a nice guy, i don't know. but it is jarring to see an american president insulting people on the world stage sitting right next to the chancellor of germany. and the president now says that they will talk behind the scenes and talk about germany paying up

as it pertains to nato. let's get his sound up. can we hear joe? all right. david ignatius, i'll go to you. your gut on what you just heard from the president of the united states. >> mika, for the most part president trump was fairly low key. he did have that striking comment about the canadian prime minister calling him two-faced. i thought the strange thing that recurred was his characterization of nato almost as a piggybank. the only thing he seems to care about is how much people are paying in, what the substance of the alliance is, solidarity, the credibili credibility, doesn't seem to come up. he made a little news in his very positive comments about his

conversations unscheduled with prime minister -- excuse me, president erdogan of turkey. very positive, everything is going great, the cease fire is holding at a time when there is a lot of criticism of turkey, that was noteworthy. and the other thing that caught my ear was his reference in answer to a question if i understood him, a question of arms control negotiations with russia and perhaps also with china on intermediate range missi missiles. the treaty that limits those has expired and there has been a very interesting question whether the u.s. would move toward new arms control discussions with russia and perhaps china to address that. i thought i heard the president say that he was interested in that. if so, that might be the most interesting thing that we heard. >> and joe, he did say that was one of the most pressing issues facing this country. >> he did. i thought the wrap was pretty fascinating.

willie, you know, for those of us who have long been strong supporters of the north atlantic alliance, of the nato alliance, i mean we now have a formula for ensuring that donald trump will not work actively to undermine it and that is have macron go out a week earlier and criticize the alliance. i was writing down these words at the end where donald trump is summing up a summit where world leaders were mocking him and laughing at him last night in buckingham palace, he said we've had a tremendous two days. nato is stronger than it has ever been. it has been a very successful summit with great spirit. so the president is determined even if he is being mocked by world leaders on camera is determined to go home and declare this nato summit a success. >> because president macron criticized it and yesterday donald trump became the great defender of nato which spun a

lot of heads. senator booker, i would ask you about this view of the world from president trump and specifically the view of nato as sort of a financial transaction. we keep hearing about the 2% threshold that was agreed to, and that seems to be the litmus test. are you paying enough to be a part of this organization that has been a safe guard in the world for generations. >> first of all, he radically misconceives exactly what that is. this is not paying to a common piggybank. but more than that, and we are literally -- i travel a lot and meet with world leaders. and to see their fevers and their concerns about he calls america first, this is really america isolated, america alone, america pulling away from alliances, international agreements, paris climate accord, understanding that we are the dispensable nature and to have a president who distorts who our friends are and our enemies, has a better

relationship with putin than he does with macron or merkel, is problematic. and look, before ambassador jo was yovanovitch was a hold house name, i was sitting with her in a basement bunker meeting with ukranian military. and when our military leaders and senator mccaskill -- >> claire. >> i feel like i'm at the caucus lunch and she's making fun of my vegan food. >> all true. where's the meat. >> but you literally have our military leaders calling on what is going on with russia a hybrid war. this is the terminology when i was first traveling on the foreign relations committee, that nato's urgency right now with the russians now intervening latvia, there was a great expo say about how they are perfecting this in places like madagascar, how to undermine free osocieties, natos

urgency at this moment on the world stage with a climate crises coming, with things like syria, with russian aggression in ukraine and the challenges of western democracy in hungary or turkey, this is a problematic thing that you have a president that not only doesn't seem to understand nato's critical role, but on the world stage just insulted, called the leader of canada our most essential ally who has been there with us in every conflict since 9/11, standing in partnership with us in so many ways, to just throw out a school yard taunt our punch like that was a moment that it still stuns me when i h hear our president do that. >> and that was in response to a question about video that has been out there about world leaders and including prime minister trudeau and boris johnson and president macron of france circled up and it appears that they are making fun of

president trump. put that together with the way we've seen some of these leaders push back on president trump at this nato summit. what picture does it paint of where we are in the world right now? >> america right now cannot be trusted. our allies no longer trust us. it is weakening the fabric of democracies at a time when the planet earth is seeing the rides of our authoritarian governments. when i went down to meet with jeff flake and we flew to meet with the new leader of zimbabwe, to talk about american sanctions, he was landing from china at a time where he was saying that the chinese don't care what i do about hu humanitarian rights. there was a global conflict that went on between our form of government and the authoritarian government and this president seems to be weakening democratic alliances and playing into the very playbook that the russians are trying to use. and this is problematic. and by the way, senator, you know this, republicans know

this, when i'm sitting down where my republican colleagues, they know what is going on. and this is what frustrates me even about this impeachment proceedings right now. argue with me that this is not impeachable behavior, but don't tell me that this is not moral vandalism going on from the white house where a president is using taxpayer dollars to hold hostage a country until they do what his political bidding is. nobody can defend the behavior. you can argue whether it is impeachable or not, but we are in a crisis where we're pulling back from the world stage and violating our values. >> senator, so i'm going to get -- let's get back to what we just saw in a minute, but i want to ask you about the big news from the campaign trail yesterday that kamala harris, your colleague, getting out of the race. what are your thoughts? >> well, it is problematic to me. and frankly, it just wasn't -- when i'm hearing from my own family members, black women in

my family, that wait, i don't understand this, she still had a pathway to compete in iowa, that she is exiting the race and we'll see potentially a debate stage right now with only six have qualified and all of them are white. when we won our last election, the last big presidential record turnout, massive obama coalition came because the fullness of the democratic party came out including almost a million more african-american votes in 2012 than in 2016. we lost michigan, we lost wisconsin, we lost pennsylvania. if african-american vote had been nearly what it was in 2012, we'd be talking about president hillary clinton right now. and so to be in this race right now, i tell you, if anything, i got calls from civil rights leaders, congressional black caucus leaders yesterday, telling me to fight on because we know that the debate stage, the rules that they are using when i'm number three in net

favor and in iowa, when i lead in local endorsements, when we have the "des moines register" and to hahave official neeartif needs to keep people out of the race, no way. i think that i have the best chance of resurrecting that coalition. >> and so talk about your frustration. and by the way, we've mentioned it already, it is a frustration that barack and michelle obama felt in early fall of 2007, that you were talking about right now no black leaders on the stage for the next debate. of course that is decided in part by polls. and polls that are showing that right now for whatever reason, black voters especially older black voters are gravitating to joe biden predominantly. kamala was never able to break through that support.

of course president obama did later in 2007. what do you have to do? how frustrating is it for you first of all, but secondly, what do you have to do to break through and get the sort of support that you need from not only black leaders, but older black voters, younger black voters that will get you on that next debate stage? >> so two quick answers. first and foremost, if we were allowing the past to influence what our decisions are now, we would not be putting so much stock in polls because never in the lifetime of any of us here has there ever been someone leading in the polls in december that has gone on to the white house in the democratic party. never. clinton around 4%, barack obama 20 points behind secretary clinton at this point in the campaign. and losing to her in south carolina until he showed. so for us, it is very simple. we are running the kind of race with the ingredients of how people like kerry go on from 4%

in december to winning in iowa. we have what it take, but we need help. if this is going to be a new barrier that the dnc will put up, we need people to go out there and go to cory booker.com and contribute so we can run the kind of ads that you are seeing from the billionaires that are bumping up their numbers. we need folks to keep my voice in this race. and here is the interesting thing -- >> hold on. i want to make a statement about this. >> i think that he said cory booker.com. is that it? >> it was. >> all right. so we got that out of the way. so you brought up billionaires. talk about your emotions, talk about the emotions of your supporters, the feelings of your supporter, concerns of your supporters, that you have been working so hard around the clock, your people have been working so hard, you are doing the blocking and tackling right, you are building organizations correctly, and mike bloomberg comes in at the last minute and i know that had to play into

kamala harris's decision because here is a guy that can just blanket california on super tuesday with ads. does something need to be done to stop billionaires from being able to come into a race and just basically helicopter into a race after everybody else has been fighting for a year and write a $40 million check and start moving up in the polls? >> i have very strong feelings on campaign finance. what i've seen in washington, i would invite claire to comment on this, the money in politics right now is so corrosive. people on both sides of the aisle understand this. we have to change the system or else we'll be moving working class people out of the area all together. but you don't need to go to my supporters. go to iowa and see from the media, head of the iowa starting line just wrote out a message saying if you are called by a pollster, no matter who you are supporting, choose cory booker

because he deserves to be on that stage as much or more than people that are on that stage who don't have the same level of a campaign that i have in that state. so if you are starting to see the backlash from iowa media and iowans themselves, hey, this is getting kind of ridiculous, we should be choosing who goes on out of the iowa primary, not artificial barriers or how many millions you have in your personal bank account. and so that is a little frustrating. this was a point that john care ary lee ry kerry lent his campaign $5 million and then went on to win. i do not have $5 million. i made the decision to be a nonprofit lawyer as i started my career. so i don't have those personal millions to sustain. and by the way, if kamala did, she said she was about $5 million short if i have that correct, she would still be competing in iowa right now. and by the way her voice, whatever you think, i'm in this race because i think i'm a better choice than her, but she was bringing things to the table, bringing up issues that the democratic party will be

woefully lacking. hualijulian castro bringing thio the debate in a part 2i that desperately needs black and latino voters p. and i was hearing from my female family members. so we have a problem in the democratic party. and i'm in this to beat touchdo donald trump and claire represents where the democratic party is. we won back the house of representatives because of the broadness of our party. because we had people who could appeal to the moderates in this race. if we don't have voices that can unite the wholeness of our party, make us a bigger tent -- and this is why i have a lot of love for claire because i've heard her go off in private. the democratic end should not be to beat republicans, it should be to unite americans in common cause. that is the next leader that we need for this country, somebody

who begins to heal this nation. and i worry that the way politics runs right now, that people like claire and others that i know are not finding a way to get to the table. so yesterday was not a happy day for me. we need leaders in this country that can call to all of us in a common spirit. because we have common pain right now, but we have to get black to a common purpose. >> you have been preaching unification, coming together, getting the ugly out, running a white house with character, and that part to me is what is frustrating. that to me seems like the message that most folks i talk with at the grocery store are sick of the polarization, they are sick of, you know, it is my way or the highway. and talk about your frustration about that message not resonating -- like frankly, i thought it would at this point. is it because you don't have the resources to really break through? and by the way, the debate requirement that you have

supporters in 20 states and 200,000 supporters, that was designed to get around the billionaires. clearly that is not working because steyer made the stage and he's only there because he is a billionaire and he's been able to write these big checks for advertising. are we failing at trying to keep billionaires from buying the spot? >> i want to go to the first part of your question. i live in an innercity and hear it in mine. i grew up with two civil rights leaders who talked about the nobility. they were in their suits and ties and they would be yelled at but yet they still met it with a dignity and gravity that was able to call to all of america. when they have watched what was happening on the pettis bridge or in birmingham, they said we want to be a part of that. and so this country doesn't need more trumpism. it needs people that say whatever your party is, let's get back to the honor and

dignity because that is who we are. and by the way, the joy with which the russians and others, our enemies, are seeing each other down, that is our weakness. our founders knew that. they put fort the declaration of i inter-defend inside. and so when you talk about the honor, i appreciate it. and for us, i'm in this to fight. this is a documentary about me called street fighter. i'm not going to change my message right now. the fight you want is to bring people together. that is where our strength comes from. and so for me, it is right now doing the best we can in fundraising because i don't want to drop out, make that stage. i'm more determined now than ever and i'm happy that we're trending on twitter this morning, we had one of our

better fund raising days yesterday because people are starting to wake up this is the message we want. >> and senator harris dropped out in part because of fundraising issues. and so many of that is because of the focus on the early states. there could be this next debate without a candidate of color on the stage. is that because these early states, iowa, new hampshire, are nearly all white in terms of residents and should different states be at the top of the calendar? >> i want to disconnect those things. iowa chose the first black president of the united states. i'm not concerned about the lack of diversity of -- i'm really not. because we have is four states that have geographical and racial diversity. i am concerned that the unintended consequences of the rules allows a billionaire -- and if the stage stays what it is right now, it will have more billionaires than black people. it allows billionaires to be up on that stage and not people who have legitimate chances to win the nomination. my campaign is evolving the same

way president obama's did, the same way that jimmy carter and others who talked to the larger aspirational goals. didn't break through right away, but when our team is at number three in net favor ability in iowa and climbing, they haven't chosen you yet, but 80% of the people have not set on their final choice. so we're confident in iowa. local news writes about the fact that we have the makings s of a upset. but i think that the consequences is that the mine otherity voices are being exclud excluded. and that is problematic for the party who will rely on black and brown turning out in record numbers to win back the presidency and critical seats. >> and you are trending because you are sitting next to claire.

>> i love this. you are doing more than you know. >> great to see you. >> cory booker.com. >> thank you. up next, what to expect from today's impeachment hearing in the judiciary committee. now just about one hour away, a lot going on. keep it right here on "morning joe." (alarm beeping) welcome to our busy world. where we all want more energy. but with less carbon footprint. can we have both? at bp, we're working every day to make energy that's cleaner and better. and we see possibilities everywhere. to make energy that's cleaner and better. i need all the breaks, that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ sa new buick? for me? to james, from james.

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welcome back to "morning joe." the impeachment probe of president trump officially moves in to the hands of the house judiciary committee today. late last night, the house intelligence committee voted 13-9 along party lines to send its impeachment report to the judiciary committee. now at 10:00 this morning, just over an hour from now, the judiciary committee will hold its first impeachment hearing featuring a panel of legal scholars who will discuss the

definition of high crimes and misdemeanors an testify on the constitutional grounds for president shal impeachmen presidential impeachment. joining us know, mimi rocah from pace law school. and she has a very big announcement, we'll get to that. and also with us, best selling author michael lewis, his book "the fifth risk" is out now. good morning to you both. mimi, let me begin with you. we had fact witnesses and now we'll get an interpretation effectively of the concept of impeachment from constitutional scholars. what will it looks like in that room before the judiciary committee? >> look, today is not going to be probably the most exciting day. but it might be the most important in some ways. because we need people to understand what is this isn't just -- you know, the republicans are trying to paint

this as sure, you know, he asked the other country to help him, you know, big deal. this is perfectly permissible. no, it is not. what this report, what they have laid out i think in really extraordinary, exquisite detail but also in an understandable way is that it can't be disputed that trump used the levers of power, the presidency to extort and bribe another country for his own benefit, not for what was in the interests of this country. and i think that these legal scholars today are going to make clear why that is so important and that this idea of this being a coup or overturning an election is just nonsense, political nonsense. >> you know, michael, everything that mimi just said sort of fits into "the fifth risk," which is altering institutions that we have known and lived with throughout our lives, altering them past the point of mediocrity, to the point of incompetence and illegality. >> this is true.

i mean, i watched this from some distance, and it does seem to me there's nothing that he could do that would cause republican senators to be outraged enough to put him out of office. he was -- he really could shoot someone on fifth avenue, right? and i think he would just stay -- it would have no effect. the fifth -- for me, "the fifth risk" sort of came to life during the impeachment hearings, when you watched those civil servants being dragged kind of reluctantly to come and explain what happened, and you saw who the deep state was. it was like people who actually knew what they were talking about. >> people you knew. >> and that had -- there was just a moment where you thought, well, this is the best the country has to offer. >> right. >> and it's being dragged through the mud by this guy. but it's -- it is to me really unsettling to watch the way he

has -- he keeps changing the subject from what he should be doing. he should be running the government. >> so mimi, like a lot of women in the midterms and running in the 2020 field among the dems, a lot of women get fed up and run. you have a big announcement today. what is it? >> i do, mika. i am running to be the next district attorney in westchester county, where i live with my family, right outside new york city. you know, first of all, did you know that only 24% of prosecutors around the country are women? and we need to change that. i was a federal prosecutor for over 16 years, as you know. i put away gun dealers, drug traffickers, child predators, and you know, i've been speaking out for the past two years about the rule of law against this lawless administration that we've been talking about. we have a criminal in the white house. we have a corrupt attorney general who just today it came out that he said that if communities don't give more respect to law enforcement, they will not get the protection, the

protection of law enforcement that is their right under the law and our democracy. these are the kinds of hateful, frankly, criminal messages that are coming from washington. and so, i want to be part now of what is happening on the local and state level, pushing back against these terrible policies of hate and this just complete disrespect for the rule of law. and in westchester county where we have sex trafficking, an opioid crisis, people dying from opioids every day, people are afraid to send their kids to school because of gun violence. these are the things that i can work on and also help push back against the trump administration there. >> so, safe to say, joe, she's inspired by what she's been happening, and that's really pushing -- that's behind her run for westchester d.a. >> well, there's somebody else ran and was westchester's d.a.

>> oh, right. >> jeanine pirro. i take it -- >> won't be my role model. >> -- you won't be following in her footsteps. will not be your role model. let me ask you whether the current attorney general will be your role model either? you know, we've sort of, by this point in the trump presidency, we've factored in donald trump's personality, his grand failures, his complete lack of character. i'm still coming to terms with how shocking it is that william barr continues his corrosive conduct as america's attorney general. what can congress do? what can any of us do when you have an attorney general actually critical of an i.g. report because it doesn't lambast the fbi enough? >> well, that's exactly right. he doesn't like the ig report

because it didn't fit his political narrative, and that is exactly the opposite of what an attorney general should do. attorney generals, prosecutors at any level in any office should follow the facts in the law and shouldn't be guided by politics, which is -- everything he's doing is about protecting this president politically. and look, kamala harris now isn't in the presidential race anymore, but she is one of the ones who's been focused more than anyone on bill barr and calling for his impeachment. and while donald trump and, you know, what congress is doing there is obviously most important, i am looking forward to seeing her have the more time and energy to focus on bill barr, because this is really just absolute corruption at its most dangerous. >> so michael, "the fifth risk," your book, focuses on government agencies full of people who are unsuited for their jobs, ill-equipped, unqualified. you talk about sort of the death of data. they don't want to see numbers anymore. they're acting on gut and the rest of it. >> the opioid crisis. >> yeah. >> the only reason we know about the opioid crisis is the

government data was available to mine and see where these -- >> right. >> -- odd prescription patterns were happening. the only way we know about kind of who we are as a country is the data the government collects. and the neglect of this administration to that, i mean, we'd be lucky to get a census. but yeah, sorry, i interrupted your -- >> no, no, that's good. that's sort of the thesis of the book. but i'm curious where you see some connection to what we watch every day from republicans on the intel committee, for example. it's not quite incompetence because it's willful. they know what they're doing. or republican senators floating out debunked ukraine conspiracy theories, sort of the functioning of government where there has in the past, through history, been pushback, where there no longer is. checks. >> yeah. it's -- i mean, but to me, one of the interesting things is you start with a president who has absolutely no interest in this enterprise he's meant to be running. and the basic function of the government is to keep us safe.

so, what he does by either neglect or allowing cronies into places where you need actual people who understand things it shifts the risk that something bad will happen in ways that are really unpleasant. and you don't -- it's funny, he can kind of get away with it for a while because we do have a civil service that's sort of struggling to continue to do their jobs. it's interesting that, like, morale has not completely collapsed in large parts of the government, and i think it's partly because it's sort of bracing to have to deal with this sort of existential threat for a brief period of time, but the government can't withstand it. and i do think that, like this, at some point, someone's going to stand up and sell the idea that the government is a good thing, the government is something we need. >> right. >> the government is providing -- without the government, it isn't just keeping us safe. it isn't a bunch of pointless

bureaucrats. >> order. >> and it isn't even -- it is order, but it's also, i mean, like the economic growth of the future. where does that come from? >> it usually comes from seed investment that the government is making. the trump administration's just uninterested in. so, at some point, i think he's opening up a sort of a flank that someone could come in and attack. >> all right, michael lewis and mimi rocah, thank you so much. congratulations. >> thank you. >> on your announcement to run. >> thank you so much. >> this is very exciting. i'll be following that. all right, time now for final thoughts. joe, i think i'll hand it to you. >> i want to double down on what michael had said and what his book is about. we heard about the death of expertise in britain with brexit, where experts weren't trusted. my party has long told the joke that the most frightening words in the english language are, we're from the government and we're here to help. well, you know what, we saw in

stark contrast, what competent government officials versus incompetent politicians looks like over the two weeks of impeachment hearings, and we saw those state department professionals, we saw people who have dedicated their lives to protecting this country. and sadly, that doesn't seem to be in vogue among voters anymore, and we're all going to suffer because of it. >> and that does it for us this morning. brian williams picks up the coverage right now. well, good morning from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. day 1,049 of this trump administration. on capitol hill so begins the next chapter of the democrats' push toward impeachment. it's unfolding this morning in the house