glaude, nick confessore, mara, steve schmidt, most of all to you for watching. "mtp daily" with chuck todd starts now. welcome to thursday. it's "meet the press daily." good evening and i am chuck todd here in washington. on a day that's raised more questions about impeachment than answers. it began with house speaker nancy pelosi formally instructing democratic leaders to proceed with drafting articles of impeachment. essentially, the indictment that they would send over to the senate in the wake of a house intelligence committee's report about the president's conduct with ukraine. but then pelosi told reporters that she believes the heart of the democrats' case for removing president trump doesn't revolve around ukraine. it revolves around russia.

>> all i hear from the presses that are moving so swiftly, it's like a blur going by. this has been a couple of years. two and a half since the initial investigation of the russian involvement in america's election, which started much of this. and then led to other things. this isn't about ukraine. this is about russia. who benefitted by our withholding -- withholding of that military assistance? russia. it's about russia. sometimes people say, well, i don't know about ukraine. i don't know that much about ukraine. well, our adversary in this is russia. all roads lead to putin. understand that. >> so if it is all about russia, then what exactly are these articles of impeachment going to look like? could they be much broader than we thought? we don't yet have an idea. we don't even know who for sure is drafting them. while the house judiciary committee is formally tasked with that responsibility, pelosi today said she wanted multiple committee chairs involved. and then she met with all six house committee chairs, who have

been tasked with investigating president trump. for an enormously-wide array of potential misconduct. so we don't know how many articles of impeachment there could be. we don't know who exactly is drafting them. and we don't know what they will be focusing on or when there will be a vote. and we know even less about what a trial in the senate is going to look like if it happens at all. in fact, going to have a hard time putting anything on their calendars for the month of january because the official senate calendar that was released today -- excuse me, yesterday -- does not have january. due to a lack of clarity on impeachment. so let's dive into this issue. get the latest on capitol hill with garrett haake. and, garrett, i'm going to set you up here because i know you may want to set yourself up. with this basic question, which is, how broad is this impeachment gonna be? let me play the q and a that you had with the speaker. >> you mentioned those previous

investigations. do you want to see elements of the mueller report? >> i'm not going to be talking about that. my chairman will be making recommendations. >> do you have a personal view on that? >> as to what the -- the -- our counsel, our lawyers, our -- our chair. staffs of the committees have been sensational. and we look to them for their judgment about what the articles of impeachment. with all due respect to your question, i'm not here to talk about that because that -- that's what they'll be working on. >> so i guess this gets at the -- i don't want to say it's a disconnect. but a lack of clarity here. on one hand, she said this isn't about ukraine. this is about russia. which of course many people have said. this is bigger than just ukraine. this is about the larger russia question. but adam schiff never made it that. jerry nadler never fully made it that. she is. and then she backed off on what that means. >> yeah. it's interesting, chuck. i mean, one of the questions that she answered earlier in that same press conference, pelosi was asked if there was a turni turning point in her view on

impeachment. and i think i say sort of geared up to hear her say something along the way since these public hearings are starting. and she said no, it was the whistle-blower's original complaint, the ig report that got her thinking about ukraine. that tells me they're looking at a longer timeframe or at least the speaker is in terms of what gets included. and it's also interesting, as i talked to oether democrats throughout the course of the day, a lot of democrats on the judiciary committee really do want to have something from the mueller report. particularly, the obstruction elements of the mueller report, be considered as part of the articles of impeachment. some of them told me they feel like it's unfinished business almost for that committee, which was investigating this for so long. and they think the president's obstructive conduct as demonstrated there is part of a pattern that speaks to what he was doing in ukraine. but whether there's other things along the way, other acts by this president that could be included. it does still seem like it's a very open debate. it's also potentially good politics for democrats if they introduce more articles than they ultimately approve. it would give vulnerable democrats perhaps a chance to

vote no on some things and look like they're being more reasonable and not just rushing to judgment on the president. but i think it's clear democrats are trying to move fast here. but these are unanswered questions on exactly what goes into the articles. >> now, there was a -- the house republicans of 1998 and '99 did a similar thing. had four articles. ended up, i think, voting out two. garrett haake. starting us off on capitol hill. thank you. joining me now, two smart minds. neil, former acting solicitor general in the obama administration. and glenn kershner, former federal prosecutor. also msnbc legal analyst. neil, let me just start with you and what -- how did you -- what did you hear from speaker pelosi? i mean, a lot of us heard, you know, like okay. and -- and does that mean the syria decision? does that mean -- if it's all about russia, that's a much bigger lens to start looking at. >> yeah. i think it's a little artificial to talk about russia and ukraine and to pick out one thing the

like the sentence she says well it's about russia. it's not about ukraine. because earlier, she said ukraine changed everything in the press conference. i think what she really means to be saying here is ukraine is one example of a larger situation in which the president has been doing, effectively, russia's bidding. i don't think that necessarily changes the impeachment calculus in terms of the articles. it may influence the breadth of them. but, you know, this investigation has been moving with a lot of velocity on ukraine. ukraine. ukraine. there's a separate set of things about russia. which are breakaway and could be standalone and i think maybe this has a little bit to do with that. for example, did the president lie to the grand -- in the mueller investigation? and does the grand jury have information about that? that is about russia but it's also about something much broader than that. or different than that. that is, you know, something that we could see come out in -- in an article of impeachment. that pelosi's lawyer told a federal court two weeks ago that's what they were investigating. >> you know, glenn, it was

interesting. on one hand, her announcement today. okay. they're moving to the next phase. on the other hand, you hear that. and you're like there's a lot more to investigate. and -- and -- and so -- and you hear more moderate members going let's move, guys. let's get this. so we know there's some political. what did you hear out of all this? >> so the old prosecutor in me likes to hold all wrongdoers accountable. all co-conspirators. >> you don't want to leave a stone unturned. >> no and what we have right now, chuck, is a very compelling case. particularly, i mean not just the 12 fact witnesses. but those expert witnesses really brought into full focus the fact that the two things that the framers were really concerned about was foreign interference in our elections. and a president abusing his power and his office. and in one thing, president trump managed to do both of those. and then he covered it all up to boot. by completely ignoring and refusing to take part in

congress's lawful responsibility, sole responsibility, of impeachment. so the problem is, there's enough for the president. no now, i don't think anybody suspects that once this shifts over to the house, the republicans are gonna have a spasm of patriotism and law-abidingness. but where does that live us if we stop the investigation right now? with a lot of potential complicity. we have learned we've gotten the sense in the upper echelons of the state department, in the upper echelons of omb, and that has not yet been gotten hold of. >> neil, this gets at -- a guest i had on earlier this week about disinformation. she made an interesting point about impeachment. she goes, you know, when the history of the trump presidency is told, will ukraine be the number one thing for those critics? and it was an interesting point she made. it's sort of like it's what they have. and it goes to this question. is it the thing? >> right. no. it's iron clad.

it reminds me a little bit of the johnson impeachment under johnson 1867 who was impeached for violation of the tenure of office act. >> this is what you're saying. you're making the capone tax evasion. you know, you're not getting 'em for the big crime. >> certainly, don't want to make it about something technical. the problem is -- or the difference is -- here are the ukraine stuff is this is what glenn's getting at -- is not actually technical. this is the heart of what impeachment is about. the president tried to cheat in the 2020 election with the help of a foreign government. and so i think the problem for the democrats is that's actually pretty clear. i don't think there's actually much disagreement on the facts. but then there's also all these other allegations. about russia and lying and so on. so what do you do? this is something prosecutors deal with all the time. and i mean, i think here, the fact is they've got a very strong, airtight case, they can make that case. they can move it quickly. and then continue to investigate these other matters. >> all right. but you say they continue to investigate. how much momentum gets lost if you stop this?

right? isn't that the concern? >> right. and that's a political calculation because it doesn't look like they're playing for republican votes. it looks like they're playing for the hearts and minds of the american people with respect to where the poll numbers are gonna go. >> i had a strategist to me say this is the democrats -- with the swing voters that are weary of impeachment, all they have to do is make the case that it was legitimate. that this was a legitimate thing to be investigating. they don't have to make the case that he should be thrown out. they just have to do that. that's, you know, do you stop there? >> can i tell you what the -- the big unknown is right now, chuck. ordinarily, i think we could say let's move out against the president. because there's enough evidence right now. and let's let the department of justice deal with the criminal investigation of whatever was going on at omb that might be complicit in what trump was doing. whatever was going on in the state department. but with bill barr, can we trust that the doj is going to get

that investigative work done? >> that's a rough charge. sdny is doing some stuff. they may stumble into -- >> some stuff. but i think what ultimately is likely to happen and should happen here is almost a rolling impeachment. you break out one set of allegations that you know and that you've got ironclad. you don't stop the investigation. you keep it going. here the president has given ammo to the democrats because he has stone walled the investigation and congress. not a single witness permitted to testify, not a document or the like. democrats would be on good footing. >> would they be in good political footing to look like they're always trying to impeach? serial impeachment? >> if the president gave this information over to congress now, it wouldn't be forever. we could resolve all this stuff soon. it's because this president is hiding it. >> all right, guys. my favorite thing of the day was the senate putting out the no -- the calendar with no january. we're 60 days from iowa. we have no idea what the next 60 days are going to look like.

neil and glenn, thank you very much. coming up, don't mess with me. that was the message from both pelosi and biden today. woo. trumpism is making its way into the left these days when talking with people. plus, all those questions we have about what happens next in the impeachment inquiry. we're going to ask a couple members of the judiciary committee next. applebee's new sizzlin' entrées. now starting at $9.99. i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ yeah that's all me. ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin ♪ that's my new plan. ♪ nothing is everything. keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. of those, nearly 9 out of 10 sustained it through 1 year.

and skyrizi is 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. ♪ i see nothing in a different way ♪ ♪ and it's my moment so i just gotta say ♪ ♪ nothing is everything skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches or coughs, or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. ♪ at chevy, we're all about bringing families together. this time of year, that's really important. so we're making it easier than ever to become part of our family.

that's why our chevy employee discount is now available to everyone. the chevy price you pay is what we pay. not a cent more. family is important to us. and we want you to be part of ours. so happy holidays. and welcome to the family. all: the chevy family! get the chevy employee discount for everyone today. here, it all starts withello! hi!... how can i help? a data plan for everyone. everyone? everyone. let's send to everyone! wifi up there? uhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your local xfinity store today.

welcome back. we do have a lot of questions about where this impeachment process is going next. so let's ask someone who's going to be involved in it and is involved in it. joining me now, democratic congresswoman and member of the judiciary committee, madelyn dean. congresswoman, nice to see you again. >> good evening. how are you? >> i'm okay. so let me start with this question about invest -- keeping the investigation going and starting to write articles of impeachment. i know what's being said. you're gonna not stop investigating. but there is a momentum switch that takes place once you start writing articles. i know that there's this idea

you can walk and chew gum at the same time. but there are going to be leads left uninvestigated as you turn this over to the senate. what, to you, is this balance that you're striking? and are you concerned that you're leaving some stones unturned? >> thank you for having me on, chuck. i want to say that the evidence that we already have, as incomplete as it might appear to be, is undeniable. it's undenied. and it's damning. so it is important and, in fact, urgent that we move forward. i respect the speaker and her decision today for our judiciary committee to move forward with articles of impeachment. we learned yesterday from the professors. i loved yesterday's hearing because it brought to life our constitution and why our founders put in the impeachment clause in article two, section four. why did they do that? because no one is above the law. especially, the president of the united states. and so to protect us, keep our elections free and fair and full of integrity, it's important we

move forward. i'm not concerned. we will continue other investigations. but i am not concerned. >> do you feel as if, though, that those -- that after you send over the articles and you keep investigating, that if he's not convicted, that it just -- that -- that no matter what wrongdoing you find, it doesn't -- it -- it just doesn't have the same impact. >> well, let me describe the other side of that. it's interesting that the republican party and the president have said you're moving too fast. you don't have enough evidence. what is the very reason we don't have complete evidence? an extraordinary obstruction by this administration. historic, as we know. no other president subject to impeachment has ever blocked every subpoena. every subpoena. every subpoenaed document. we have none. in fact, the only document we have, which was sent over by the president, is the record of the july 25th call with president zelensky. it is a damning condemnation of

this president seeking foreign interference in our election. and it's a continuation of a pattern of behavior. the trump -- trump campaign had more than 100 contacts with russia. the president openly asked for russia to interfere. asked for china to interfere. and then privately, in that phone call, asked for ukraine to interfere. and all to the benefit of whom? putin's russia. that's what the american people need to know. >> so at this point in your head, how many articles do you think are -- are realistic here? it sounds like an abuse of power. a obstruction of justice that you just brought up with the mueller report. you decided a few of those. and do you believe a bribery standard has been met? >> i certainly believe bribery has been met. this president tried to bribe, extort, coerce a foreign leader. in a fragile democracy, under attack by russia. let's make no mistake about this. by withholding aid that we,

congress, republicans and democrats, authorized to help this fledgling democracy. i'm not going to speculate on the articles of impeachment. i feel that my duty on the judiciary committee is not to engage in any speculation. instead, to engage in study and make sure that the facts supported by the constitution are what guide our articles of impeachment. >> do you have an idea of what the other four committee -- committees may be sending over to you guys? we know what the intel committee sent over. financial services, foreign relations, oversight. what are they possibly sending over to you guys in order to discuss articles? >> i look forward to all of it. i don't know what the other committees are sending. i -- i have the great honor of serving not only on judiciary but also on financial services. so one of the things that you have seen is we've been in court. in addition to upholding our duty as a co-equal branch of government in this

investigation. and now, the drafting of articles of impeachment. we've been in court in both financial services and chair woman waters and other committees have been successful. the courts agree, co-equal branch of the judiciary agree that the president in blocking subpoenas, blocking release of financial statements, has abused hir o h his power. >> is this gonna happen before you guys leave? you know, are you gonna get the government funded and these articles voted on and be home for christmas? >> i think we have to do it all. but i will tell you, the calendar is above my duties and above my pay grade. so i can't tell you what the calendar looks like. but i can tell you what the american people or at least the people in my district want. they want us to do this well, fairly, judiciously, and by the way. notice the president has been given opportunities to deny or explain what in god's name happened with that ukraine call. and he's passed on that. so i guess there's nothing to say there. but my constituents care that we do this well, expeditiously. because they get the urgency of

it. we have an upcoming election. they also want us to continue to fund government. they're also quite proud and maddened by the fact that we have passed 400 bills. 285 of them bipartisan. and 80% of them sit dead in the senate. so this is a congress that is walking, chewing gum, and as i like to say, flossing at the same time. >> flossing. congressman madelyn dean. democratic judiciary committee and financial services. thanks for coming on sharing your views. and as democrats begin drafting articles of impeachment, some republicans in capitol hill are struggling to defend what the president did when it comes to ukraine. here's congressman doug collins, the ranking republican on judiciary speaking to republic -- to reporters yesterday. >> you keep saying that the president was concerned about corruption. but in neither of those phone calls, he mentioned the word corruption. why is it -- why -- why didn't the president mention the word corruption and instead ask ukrainian president to investigate the bidens? >> that's almost like saying why

don't you -- you know, frame your questions differently. he said this is what he wanted looked into. he said -- he said help us as a country because we're trying to heal. as mr. jordan said earlier and did a great job, we had just come off the mueller hearing which most all of you covered and found out to be a total disaster for the impeachment narrative democrats have been saying. what we're simply saying here is the issue was what happened on that call? and then there became all these stories from the whistle-blowers about all these things that supposedly happened upon since then, fact witnesses and even hearsay evidence has said, no, that's not what happened. >> with that, let's turn to republican congressman mike johnson. he is also on the judiciary committee. congressman, thank you for coming on. appreciate it. >> hey, thanks, chuck. thanks for having me. >> let me start with this based on what we've seen out of judiciary. do you think the president might be making a mistake here by not having counsel there? by not participating in this process? >> no. i think the mistake, as you were just alluding to when my good friend and colleague representative dean was speaking

here. is that there's a lot left to be looked into here. i think there are a lot of stones unturned. we are actually pretty surprised on the republican side that this looks like political malpractice on speaker pelosi's part. i don't think she wanted to go down this road. but she's been forced to it. and i think as was said in the hearing yesterday, professor turley i think said very well. this is the thinnest record and the shortest fuse that's ever been used for impeachment. it sets a very dangerous precedent for the future of our republic. >> isn't part of the problem, though, the argument that democrats are making and will make is, there are stones they'd like to turn over. but they -- they are not getting -- they're not getting legal cooperation, if you will, from the white house. there's no interest at all in -- in participating in this process even to produce documents. if you've got exculpatory evidence, produce the exculpatory evidence. i mean, that's been part of the problem here. don't they have a fair argument on that? >> the president released the transcript because he's very confident in the -- in the underlying facts. the problem we have on the house

judiciary committee is that even though we're the committee with appropriate jurisdiction over impeachment. we're not allowed access to the underlying evidence. we can't review it. it's kind of absurd to think that the people that actually have to vote on articles of impeachment are not allowed to see the full record that adam schiff and his -- his group gathered. we don't know why that is. i think they may be trying to hide something. >> well, you do have -- well, jim jordan. i mean, in fairness, jim jordan -- i mean, i believe you guys had all that access to it during -- during that investigation. >> no. >> jim jordan was on both intel and this. >> yeah, jim was. jim and jon ratcliffe are on that but they can't talk to us about things they heard and saw in the basement and that's a real problem here. and that's why our expert yesterday said you're going too fast. he talked to the democrats. he said i'm not even a trump voter or trump supporter. i'm telling you i'm worried about the procedure and the precedent that you're setting here. >> i'm curious when you woke up this morning and saw that rudy giuliani was traveling around ukraine right now while under

investigation in new york by southern district of new york. and a bit -- a big player in this saga. as somebody who's trying to defend the president here, did you find that to be a difficult story to read? >> look. rudy giuliani's a private citizen. we're -- the rumor we're told is that he's over there working on a documentary. he has every right to do that. you know, i don't have any control. but he's not relevant -- he's not the one that they're trying to impeach, of course. it's the president of the united states. >> well, he's certainly a relevant witness. he's a relevant player. his name and phone number are everywhere in this impeachment investigation. >> well, he's the president's private counsel. and of course, the president has the right to hire any attorney, whomever he wants. that's his prerogative as an individual and as a citizen. and so, look, i can't speak for what rudy giuliani's done or said or what he's doing this week. what i'm focused on is this impeachment charade and i think the american people are losing patience with this.

we had a cross section of the community and everybody said they're really sick of this. they are a sick of the partisanship. they're sick of watching this unfold. and i think, as i said, i think the democrats are making a grave mistake here. >> i hear you. one other thing i wanted to ask you about was devin nunes and the fact that he's -- he was your -- basically the ranking member during the -- during the impeachment inquiry. and it turned out he might have had -- might have been compromised or might have been nervous about that. are you at all concerned that -- that he didn't have the best interest of everybody there but maybe himself while being ranking member? >> not at all. i have the highest respect for my colleague devin nunes. i think he's done a great job. and he's been under constant assault by the mainstream media to the point where he's even had to file lawsuits to protect his own integrity and his reputation. so it's a shameful point that we've come to in our politics here. it's the politics of personal destruction and i just hate that he's being drug through that. >> you think he should stop participating and responding to the politics of personal destruction? i mean, he's certainly been a

participator in this as well. i mean, there aren't a lot of clean hands these days. >> no. there are not a lot of clean hands and that's part of the problem. i don't know how we put this genie back in the bottle. we have to govern this country. in the constitutional republic, people are gonna get together and be willing to work together and we're losing that ability here. and i'm deeply concerned about it, chuck. >> i'm -- i don't think you're alone on that front. sadly, it might be one of the few bipartisan pieces of agreement there is these days in washington, d.c. congressman mike johnson. republican from louisiana. thank you for coming on and sharing your views. i appreciate it. >> thanks, chuck. >> up ahead, joe biden truly embraced his no-malarkey bus tour slogan today. we'll show you what got him to call an iowa voter a damn liar. s somebody... ♪ ♪ find everything you need for the kids this holiday, with low prices and free shipping on millions of items at amazon.

the ones that make a truebeen difference in people's lives. and mike's won them, which is important right this minute, because if he could beat america's biggest gun lobby, helping pass background check laws and defeat nra backed politicians across this country, beat big coal, helping shut down hundreds of polluting plants and beat big tobacco, helping pass laws to save the next generation from addiction. all against big odds you can beat him. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. applebee's new sizzlin' entrées. approve this message. now starting at $9.99. ♪the beat goes onp for heart failure look like? it looks like emily cooking dinner for ten. ♪the beat goes on it looks like jonathan on a date with his wife. ♪la-di-la-di-di entresto is a heart failure medicine that helps

your heart, so you can keep on doing what you love. entresto helped people stay alive and out of the hospital. heart failure can change the structure of your heart, so it may not work as well. entresto helps improve your heart's ability to pump blood to the body. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ♪the beat goes on ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure yeah! entrust your heart to entresto. ♪the beat goes on (loud fan noise) (children playing) ♪ (music building)

experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. the unitedllaxin'. explorer card makes things easy. traveling lighter. taking a shortcut. woooo! taking a breather. rewarded! learn more at the explorer card dot com. upbeat music♪ no cover-up spray here. cheaper aerosols can cover up odors in a flowery fog. but febreze air effects eliminates odors. with a 100% natural propellent. it leaves behind a pleasant scent you'll love. [ deep inhale] freshen up. don't cover up. febreze.

doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. are you worried, sir, about the state impeachment might have on your legacy? >> no, not at all. it's a hoax. it's a hoax. it's a big, fat hoax. >> welcome back. that was an unexpected response from president trump today when asked about impeachment. but what was a little unexpected is that was his only on-camera response after speaker pelosi's announcement that the house was indeed moving ahead with drafting articles of impeachment. there's no mystery anymore. joining me now, nbc's cara lee who just got back from covering the president. brendan buck. and former senior advisor to

hilary clinton and the president of the center for american progress there. you know, it's interesting to hear the -- i want to put up a full screen of the trump campaign statement from brad parscale who said this. we are less than a year from election day 2020 and democrats can't possibly explain to the american people why they want to take the decision of who should be president out of the hands of the voters. what i found interesting is that's what he led with, carol. no longer going to try to at least make defending the indefensible the top bar. >> it's -- it's -- yes. it's a shift here and it's the idea that -- that they're trying to take something from you. it's kind of an old classic for -- for trump. and you've seen them make that shift because they can't defend it on the facts. >> i didn't hear a guy wanting to defend the president today in mike johnson. >> and the idea is that something like an argument like this would appeal more to -- is

more likely to appeal to voters and keep people either where they are. or from, you know, moving towards supporting impeachment. the other thing that they are currently thinking is that it's better if democrats go broader. and throw in russia. and throw in mueller and all of these things because in that sense, then the president can say, look, they're just trying to find something and they're trying to get me. and they don't have enough. >> brendan, i wonder, though, if making this case is easier to win over a susan collins than it is if you actually were trying to make the case on the merits. >> i thought this is where they were going to go all along. it surprised me it took this long to get there. and there's polling on this. if the question is should he be removed through impeachment? or should his fate be decided at the ballot box? it's like 2-1 at the ballot box. >> we like democracy. >> it empowers voters. but i think you're right. it's telling they don't want to talk about -- i don't think they actually want that. >> they definitely do want a fair trial in the senate.

>> look. i'm convinced this sucker gets -- that we never see in a senate trial. that it will get so bogged down. >> i don't think they can do that. >> how to do it. but we'll see. they know it's a mess. >> i think the challenge for the senate is people want a fair process in this. the whole public wants a fair process. and i think if this -- i think that's an issue for both sides. but i think for mitch mcconnell, if he looks like this is -- he's just running cover for donald trump. particularly, when there is very little defense on the facts. i mean, the challenge for trump is, it's -- i -- i hear the point about heading this to the election. saying voters. >> to me, it's the only defense they have. >> not even a defense. it's just an argument. >> like a postponement argument. >> it's exactly not a defense of the facts. and as we go through and have the facts, the situation here we still have essentially 50% of the country supporting the impeachment. and really supporting removal, which is a very high number. >> i will say this.

>> and the more you don't get a defense from the president on the facts, the more you're confirming them every day. >> i'll say this, carol. the whole government does seem to be that it's preparing. basically, to shut down in january. rick shelby, whose appropriations on senate side said, well, we're looking at a continuing resolution. keep the government open. i guess we got to do it through march because we got to get through the trial. everything is now starting to -- the calendar we put up with no january. the 11-month calendar i think my guess is susan collins wished existed. can we skip january? i guess this is happening. >> it's happening. and it's -- you know, i think -- >> it's all happening. >> it's -- it's interesting because brendan and i were talking about this earlier before we came on. like, all of this is preordained. everyone knows where this is going. >> it's preordained until it isn't, though, sometimes. >> right. but the outcome, everyone has an expectation of what the outcome is going to be. and so all it is now is being played on, like, a political

battle. so you see the white house and they're preparing for the senate trial because they think that that's where they can make their political argument. they think that that's -- that's what this is essentially come down to because he'll be impeached there and then there'll be a trial. >> rudy giuliani is running around ukraine and hungry today. and you're just sitting there going seriously? >> that is the most i think oult rajs pa outrageous part of all this. like the total lack of shame. you got caught. stop. but to carol's point, this feels so inevitable of where this is going. there was one period, potentially, where there could have been persuasion and that was the house intelence committee. you had two weeks where you had really stark testimony about what took place. and we really just ended up where we started. so, you know, at this point, there's such a lack of, you know, everybody basically knows where we're headed. there is -- there's clearly going to be a party line vote in the house. which allows mitch mcconnell, which has been the goal all along, turn around and say this was a partisan. >> let me ask you this. it seems to me that democrats,

the threat -- the group of voters that they haven't got enthusiastic about this is the exhaustive voters, right? i think they are -- i think these are voters that have already made their minds up about what they're doing in november and they're going i'm done with you guys. i'm tuning out until then. they -- they -- how do you get them compelled on this? >> so i -- i actually think that we're thinking about this in the wrong way. it really is how the public looks at this. i totally appreciate the political actors. >> well, the public sent you a message. the public has sent the message. you know, you basically have -- i -- i think you certainly see you have 40% of the country with the president. >> 50%. >> 45 to 50 on one side. but that's not two-thirds. >> it's -- it's not two-thirds. but i think the issue for the president, looking towards 2020, is if you look back to the clinton impeachment. al gore and i worked for hilary clinton in 2000.

we saw blow-back that the country thought bill clinton did something wrong but nothing bad happened to him. they didn't want him removed. but the fact that he looked exonerated. >> they didn't like that either? >> they did not like that either. and remember, george w. bush ran on restoring honor and integrity to the white house. and it was -- it was a -- it was a hurdle. so i would say to republicans, it is not -- making this preordained to the american people. when they make a judgment that it's wrong, there is definite blow-back on that. and i hope they don't. >> if the president would accept censure, this would have happened a long time ago. >> any normal president would allow republicans to go out and say what he did is wrong but it's not impeachable. but he will not tolerate even the slightest bit of criticism. so we end up with people not defending it or denying it took place. all kinds of things. >> here's the other thing you could factor into this about how people -- voters may not like that he seems to get away with something if they don't want him removed from office. is as this is playing out, you also then have the rudy giuliani

case playing out. and so you could have a bunch of headlines that still -- that kind of further damage the president and leave the perception in voters' minds that, you know, perhaps he's not the -- the person that they want in office or conducting himself in the way that they want him to. and surrounding mihimself with people. >> total aside everybody at this table will appreciate. rudy giuliani, a former attorney for the southern district of new york complained about sdny leaks today. can i just tell you the richness of that? the richness of that. anyway, i just knew everybody at this table, a few people watching will appreciate. >> shame is not a high point for anybody. >> shame left the -- a long time ago. >> out the building. >> up ahead, why some people clearly need a reminder about a dark moment in our nation's history. not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage.

that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa sa new buick? for me? to james, from james. that's just what i wanted. is this a new buick? i secret santa-ed myself. oh i shouldn't have but i have been very good this year. i love it...i love it... don't forget you this holiday season, get an s-you-v, from buick. celebrate the holidays with up to 25% below msrp for current eligible non-gm owners and lessees on most of these 20-19 buick models. the zip code you're born into can determine your future. your school. your job. your dreams.

your problems. (indistinct shouting) but at the y, we create opportunities for everyone, no matter who you are or where you're from. for a better us, donate to your local y today. for a better us, we'd love some help with laundry. spray and scrub anything with a stain. wash the really dirty clothes separately. tide pods with upgraded 4-in-1 technology unleash a foolproof clean in one step. aww, you did the laundry! it's got to be tide.

welcome back. tonight, i'm obsessed with a

term i've been hearing a lot. one that's been about without much intellectual honesty or care. >> gruesome display of modern-day mccarthyism. >> standing in the shoes of joe mccarthy. >> mccarthyism in reverse. >> modern-day joe mccarthy. >> mccarthyism is an enduring legacy of republican senator joe mccarthy of wisconsin. he led a systematic campaign in t the early '50s accusing people of being communist sympathizers. merely, political spectacles accusing them with treason without a shred of real evidence. holding up lists without anything on them. mccarthy's purported goal was to rule out communism in american society. when what it accomplished instead was creating a national climate of fear. joe mccarthy may be dead buzzt s tactics are not. >> the rats who are undermining the foundation of our nation.

dig out and destroy those rats. >> adam schiff. he's a low life. frankly, they should look at him for treason. >> the parade of accusations levied entirely in the absence of fact. >> even if they're only one communist in the state department, that would still be one communist too many. >> the prime minister of ukraine, the interior minister, the ukrainian ambassador to the united states, the head of the ukrainian anti-corruption league. all meddled in the election on social media and otherwise. >> the efforts to discredit journalists by berating them publicly. >> tomorrow is a symbol. the leader of the jackal pack, which is always found at the throat of anyone who dares to

expose individual communist and traitors. >> the media, the dishonesty. the total deceit and deception makes them certainly partially the opposition party. >> some believe mccarthyism was about the soviet union and communists. external threats. but it wasn't. it was the damage this nation can inflict upon itself. when we lose sight of our past and our principles. when we succumb to our basic instincts when we favor fear over fact. mccart mccarthyism wasn't about communism. it was power. it was about imposing fear. it wasn't about them. it was about us. and now, here we are again confronting the very same machinatio machinations designed to confuse, obscure, and antagonize. it's wrong and we all need to say so. after all, have we no sense of decency? ter all, have we no senf decency? before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new?

-audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ] only pay for what you need.

♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ we di didn't have to call an ambulance.. and i didn't have to contact your family. because your afib didn't cause a blood clot that led to a stroke. not today. we'd discussed how your stroke risk increases over time, so even though you were feeling fine, we chose xarelto® to help keep you protected. once-daily xarelto® ... ...significantly lowers the risk of stroke in people with afib... not caused by a heart valve problem. in fact, over 96% of people remained stroke-free. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of stroke. while taking, a spinal injection increases the risk of blood clots, which may cause paralysis - the inability to move. you may bruise more easily or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding. it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding.

before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures... ...and any kidney or liver problems. be sure you're doing... ...all you can to help protect yourself from a stroke. ask your doctor if it's time for xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com. i've got two problems with you. one is you're damn near as old as i am. you're too old. you, on the other hand, sent your son over there to get a job and work for a gas company that he had no experience with gas or nothing. in order to get access for the -- for the president. so you're -- you're selling access to the president just like he was. >> damn liar, man. that's not true and no one has ever said.

and you want to -- let's do push-ups together, man. let's run. let's do whatever you want to do. >> i didn't say you were doing anything wrong. >> you said i set up my son to work in an oil company. isn't that what you said? get your words straight, jack. >> that was joe biden getting into it with a voter today in iowa. carol, brendan, and nera are back. it was a day of confrontations. it was a little -- we had the confrontation last night on twitter between a buttigieg and a sanders supporter. but even nancy pelosi got into it with a -- with a reporter right at the end of her pressor today. let's play a little bit of that one. >> do you hate the president, madam speaker? >> i don't hate anybody. i don't hate -- i was raised in a catholic house. we don't hate anybody. not anybody in the world. so don't -- don't -- >> i did not accuse you. >> you did. you. >> you did, you did. >> i asked a question. representative collins yesterday suggested that the democrats

don't like the don. >> i have nothing -- let me just say this. i think the president is a coward when it comes to helping our kids who are afraid of gun violence. i think he is cruel when he doesn't deal with helping our dreamers of which we're very proud. i think he's in denial about the climate crisis. however, that's about the election. >> all right. who did it better? look, it is feistier set of democrats than we've seen in the past. >> i think carnal fear of democrats is that they're not tough enough to take on trump. it's a fear that they have of every single candidate. so, i have a different view of these things. >> you want more of it? >> i'm not saying they should do this all the time, but i think democrats who stand up for what they believe in, who fight back, who push back, who don't get

walked over, i think they are reassuring democratic voters -- every democratic voter thinks trump is a street fighter and you need to have the ability to punch back with donald trump. >> so, it's going to be a fut linguist pugilistic -- >> democrats love what nancy pelosi said. >> the pugilistic campaign, are we prepared for how pugilistic this is going to get. >> i think that was a moment joe biden needed. i think he needed it a while ago. all these questions about his son, but he never really fought back. he never really showed he was going to be able to at any point really and he fought back there and it sort of reminded you of lunch pale joe biden. the push up contest maybe is a bit much. >> taking trump behind the stands in high school. >> i think that's one of the best moments he had in his entire campaign because it shows he is who he was and he's ready to fight. that's what people need to see from him.

>> in addition to democrats wanting someone who can take on trump in that come pattive kind of way, voters like trump because they see him as a fighter. and they like that in a candidate. and biden -- i was surprised that biden went -- he immediately went right there and called him a liar. >> i was stunned he called a potential voter a liar. i was stunned and i'm still stunned watching it. but i take your point. >> but it's also something that his campaign had been worried about him handling in a way that went too far where he seemed too angry or kind of lashed out. and this didn't quite get there. it was a little more -- i don't think they're as worried about how he might have done it. >> they seem to have his back. >> the audience really applauded biden. >> there was an uncomfortable moment later. a bunch of reporters went to interview the guy. it looked like there was going to be fisticuffs. but our boy got the interview.

back on track here, how much does the impeachment inquiry help or hurt biden? that was the first time i thought, boy, how much has this biden son thing stuck even if it's just in the back of peoples' mind? is that a negative that will be uncomfortable for a while? >> the way to talk about this is joe biden's central argument to the democratic party is that i am the person who can beat donald trump. >> well, donald trump thinks that. >> and donald trump believes it because the only reason we're in this whole issue is because days after mueller, he basically gets on the phone to sick another country on joe biden. he doesn't sick another country on warren. he may have the chinese, or another candidate, but he's really focused on joe biden. but i think also the fact that trump is attacking the entire republican party is attacking means that other democrats are very protective. i don't think any democrat can attack on ukraine.

he saw corey in the last debate argue that it's insane to talk about it. my view is it's working -- it's not working against him. >> you bring up a point that i think is missed here in that weirdly there's an extra level of protection on biden. >> yeah. >> that the other democrats can't touch. >> they can't. >> they can't sound like they're doing trump's bidding. >> exactly. >> that's exactly right. >> they don't want to look like that. >> you don't want to give that to trump, a, if you're a democrat. and b, you don't want to look like you are buying into a line that aligns with trump. that's just -- it's not a winnable dynamic for them. >> ultimately the real question is if he becomes the nominee, is there lingering side effects in the general. that's where they're setting this up for for the long run. >> carol, brennan, and eric, fun one today. we'll be back with a sign of the season. one today. we'll be back with a sign of the season to severe crohn's disease.

then i realized something was missing... me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible. the ones that make a truebeen difference in people's lives.

and mike's won them, which is important right this minute, because if he could beat america's biggest gun lobby, helping pass background check laws and defeat nra backed politicians across this country, beat big coal, helping shut down hundreds of polluting plants and beat big tobacco, helping pass laws to save the next generation from addiction. all against big odds you can beat him. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. at chevy, we're all about bringing families together. this time of year, that's really important. so we're making it easier than ever to become part of our family. man: that's why our chevy employee discount is now available to everyone. the chevy price you pay is what we pay. not a cent more. family is important to us. and we'd like you to be part of ours. so happy holidays. and welcome to the family. the chevy family! get the chevy employee discount for everyone today.

3-2-1. >> that was the scene moments ago near the white house as the president and the first lady lit the national christmas tree which happened after the other national christmas tree, at least commercially for the country, was lit last night. obviously we love that here as well. there it is. there's the ice skating rink. we even had a neat logo on there earlier today.

we'll have a lot of fun with the link. remember election night. that's always fun. we'll be back tomorrow. "the beat" starts now. good evening. we begin with breaking impeachment news. speaker pelosi making it official, saying the house will do what many thought it was on its way to do, impeach president trump starting now. they're not waiting as we've heard for courts to rule on anything else or deal with stonewalling witnesses. they are moving. >> sadly but with confidence and humility with allegiance to our founders and a heart full of love for america, today i am asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> pelosi also dispensing with some of her other red sense and dubbing donald trump a coward saying there's no choice other than impeaching him given the mountain of evidence against him. >> the facts of