well, it is day 75 in the impeachment inquiry and a busy one at that. today, the house judiciary committee released this report on grounds for impeachment. the original document was written during the nixon impeachment process. it was updated during clinton's inquiry. now, updated again, fairly extensively, preparing now for the case against donald trump. 55 pages long. judiciary committee chairman jerry nadler released a statement saying the framers' worst nightmare is what we are facing in this very moment. if you could tell, it's a working weekend for nadler and his team on the hill. go time is monday. the next impeachment hearing. 9:00 a.m. eastern on monday. and today, we learned the names of those who are presenting that -- in that hearing. counsels for both the judiciary and intelligence committees, republican and democrats.

the white house announced it will not participate in the hearings. but the president suggested today that his personal attorney, rudy giuliani, could send a report to congress. >> he did get back from europe just recently. and i know -- he has not told me what he's found. but i think he wants to go before congress and say, and also to the attorney general and the department of justice. i hear he's found plenty. >> giuliani visited ukraine, as you heard the president alluding to, this week. he talked about the investigation in an interview this morning. >> i feel a great deal of frustration that the -- that the southern district of new york allows an article to be written that i'm being investigated for bribery and joe biden hasn't been asked a question in a grand jury about what is a clear, absolute, 100% admission of a bribery. >> nbc news asked giuliani what he hoped to accomplish in ukraine. he responded saying, quote, i will reveal it when i'm ready. and if this doesn't shake up the swamp and get us to the cut out

the years of corruption, i might then agree with those who say it's hopeless. we'll get to all that. but first, a look now at the case that democrats are making this week against donald trump. >> the president abused his power for his own personal, political benefit at the expense of our national security by withholding military aid and crucial oval office meeting in exchange for announcement of an investigation into his political rival. the president's actions have seriously violated the constitution. especially, when he says and acts upon the belief, article two says i can do whatever i want. no. his wrongdoing strikes at the very heart of our constitution. a separation of powers. three co-equal branches, each a check and balance on the other. the president has engaged in abuse of power, undermining our

national security, and jeopardizing the integrity of our elections. i am asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> what has happened in the case today is something that i do not think we have ever seen before. a president who has doubled down on violating his oath to faithfully execute the laws and to protect and defend the constitution. >> president trump has committed impeachable high crimes and misdemeanors by corruptly abusing the office of the presidency. >> after reviewing the evidence that's been made public, i cannot help but conclude that this president has attacked each of the constitutions safeguards against establishing a monarchy in this country. if what we're talking about is not impeachable, then nothing is impeachable. >> is it fair to say that all three causes for impeachment explicitly contemplated by the founders, abuse of power, betrayal of our national security, and corruption of our -- of our elections are

present in this president's conduct? yes or no, professor feldman? >> yes. >> and professor gerhardt? >> yes, sir. >> and professor karlan? >> yes. >> you all agree. >> some of the highlights from this week. let's bring in our panel. jonathan alan, nbc news digital national political reporter. anne, "washington post" white house correspondent and msnbc contributor. robert tsy, professor of law at american university. jonathan, let's get straight to what's new today. and that's basically how they plan on defining impeachment, right? the -- the very word supposedly that chairman nadler saying this is how we're going to decide. 55 pages long. what sticks out in it to you? >> i mean, i think we basically got a feeling from that hearing the other day. and some of the clips that you just showed there. >> yeah. >> we're basically looking at abuses of power. and as those -- those law professors laid out, to shorten what they said, they essentially said it's as if the president looked at the words the constitution uses for

impeachment. and sought to exploit them as much as he possibly could. >> and -- and -- and a part of that here, anne, is the discussion potentially here of mueller. obstruction of justice. when you look through some of the pages and the statements that the democrats have used in this 55-page, here is what we plan on doing. >> yeah. richard, a number of democrats have dropped some pretty broad hints that the articles, the full articles, when they're drafted, are likely to include references to the -- things that robert mueller says in his report and he -- and mueller comes quite close to saying the -- the president abused his office. and -- and veered against criminal conduct in that report. but as we all know, mueller stopped short of -- of putting a fine point on that or making any specific recommendations about what should happen as a result

of his findings. he left that to congress. these many months later, it -- it -- it appears that at least part of -- of what will be considered at the end of this process will be -- will -- will involve the mueller findings. and of course, let's remember that -- that some of the mueller findings overlap a bit with -- with what happened later with ukraine. just simply because mueller dealt with foreign interference in an election involving russia. and this set of allegations involves the idea that -- both that trump would say that the 2016 election was meddled in by ukraine. rather than russia, which sort of would, you know, that's his do-over for the mueller report. and the allegation that he was seeking further interference in the upcoming election to benefit him by having the ukrainians investigate a political rival. >> when we look at that -- that

broad possibility, discussion, points that may be made and have been made here. robert, when we look at this current report and we look at the nixon report, you're the law person here. right? if you will. what it stands out to you between the comparison -- in the comparison of these two documents? >> it looks like you've got the representatives in the house really trying to lay the groundwork for obstruction of justice or -- and/or obstruction of the -- the house's constitutional functions kind of article of impeachment. so you do see repeated references to richard nixon's cooperation. nixon while he was undergoing impeachment allowed his high aides to testify. they submitted documents. some of the tapes, the transcripts were incomplete. but, you know, by comparison, president nixon was incredibly

cooperative. and what you see in the report here is an effort to lay out a real effort -- what -- what they call a strong pattern of obstruction on the part of president trump from the top. they got a long list in the first report from the intelligence committee. detailing all of the people who were subpoenaed. who have refused to comply categorically. so i think we'll definitely see that comparison be drummed from here on out. >> so that was new today. jonathan, also new today. rudy giuliani potentially presenting a report. we just saw what the president was saying. we also saw what rudy giuliani made claims of. this goes back to ukraine. goes back to biden. fact check that, as well. you heard what he said a little bit earlier. and the possibility of him presenting a report to congress. >> i mean, it's very strange for rudy giuliani, who is in the center of this story to be going

to ukraine right now. you know, a couple of his associates have been detained and -- and arrested on their way out of the country. who have been charged in this case. and here's rudy giuliani heading over to, you know, the scene of the alleged crime to gather new evidence to try to bring back. this is as if you had -- and you decided to go into the house -- into the bank they had been alleged to have broken into. and decided that you were going to find some evidence there. i mean, this is a very, very odd situation that giuliani has injected himself into. that the president is now injecting himself into. and let's remember that also in this case, that when the president was found to -- or when the president was accused, i should say, by the whistle-blower of having done this arms for dirt deal in the first place, it was until the

whistle-blower come forward that the white house started to become, let's say, the white house started to have some justification for having held back that money. but all of a sudden, there was this new evidence that came forward for why they were holding back funding for ukraine. so it might be worth looking at giuliani going over to ukraine. looking for new evidence in light of that context of a white house that has a pattern of finding new evidence once it's caught doing something. >> so then, anne gearen, what does it say about the relationship the president has with his personal attorney? and we've been discussing that. clearly, he has made a trip that as jonathan so well analogized for us is if you are accused of robbing a bank, you go back to the bank you're accused of robbing. that's very interesting, we'll use that word right now, incident that giuliani's involved in today as we're going through an impeachment inquiry. >> yeah. i think a number of things are clear here.

starting with the fact that rudy giuliani's job appears to be safe, at least -- at least for a bit. there was an awful lot of speculation going back a couple of months now that -- that rudy giuliani's days were numbered as the president's attorney because he appeared to be causing additional problems for the president when he already had a whole lot of them to deal with. however, the fact that giuliani has the president's ear or continues to have the president's ear and does a thing that the president very much likes and does it well, which is he is a bulldog in defense of president trump. he goes on telephone. he tweets. he -- he runs around new york city. and now, he's running around ukraine in -- in defense of the president. very publicly. and -- and that is something trump wants to see in his defenders. and it suggests that giuliani is here to stay, at least for a bit. and the other is that, you know, that president trump actually really appears to believe some

of -- of what is -- is often generously called an unproved or even baseless conspiracy theory about ukrainian involvement in -- in 2016. and further, that the ukrainians were -- were trying to gain the then vice president joe biden by hiring his son. there is no evidence that any of those things are true. and, in fact, the idea that ukraine interfered in the 2016 election has been fact checked by nbc, by "the washington post," by maybe 50 other organizations in fact-checking groups. and found not to be the case. so i don't know what giuliani is going to come back with in an attempt to present to congress. but we can see that he and the -- that set of allegations will be a main talking point for the republicans. so let's see.

republicans will probably end up calling him. >> you know, robert, what do you make of this? >> i think it's going to put enormous pressure on how the senators run this trial. and when we get over to the senate side of things, the rules are going to be interesting and -- and somewhat complicated because the chief justice will preside, of course. but -- but the truth is, while the chief might be asked to make rulings about subpoenas and evidentiary questions, that's subject to a vote by the entire senate. and so it would only take a single senator to -- to request or -- or the president's lawyers to request a subpoena for giuliani or to ask that a committee be appointed to take testimony from giuliani. and so -- but -- but i think there will be senators who won't want the proceedings to turn into the kind of circus that we saw in the republican side. so this is going to be quite something to watch them navigate

the formalities and the partisan pressures. >> great setup because we're going to talk more about that in the show. what 51 votes means. what 67 votes means. as this does make it over to the senate. jon th jonathan alan, anne, thanks so much. coming up, the president takes defense strategy to florida tonight. the democrats prepares articles of impeachment in d.c. the democrats prepares articles of impeachment in d.c. woman 2 vo: ...with humira. woman 3 vo: humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further irreversible joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number one prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis. avo: humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.

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president trump has been mounting his own vigorous defense on the impeachment inquiry. he even mentioned the inquiry

while attending the nato summit in the united kingdom this week. he says no crimes were committed. >> i think it's very unpatriotic of the democrats. impeachment wasn't supposed to be used that way. all you have to do is read the transcripts. you'll see there was absolutely nothing done wrong. >> the word impeachment is a dirty word. and it's a word that was only supposed to be used in special occasions. high crimes and misdemeanors. in this case, it was no crime whatsoever. not even a little, tiny crime. >> no, not at all. not at all. it's a hoax. it's a hoax. it's a big, fat hoax. >> the impeachment thing is a total hoax. the numbers have totally swung our way. they don't want to see impeachment. especially, in the swing states, they've swung our way. i've never seen a swing like this because people realize it's a total hoax. >> today, president trump is attending two events in florida. a crucial swing state that he was alluding to. those events are the republican party of florida 2019 statesmen

dinner and the israeli counsel annual national conference. this is happening as president trump's approval rating among florida voters is split right now. 45.6 approve. 51 51.4 disapprove. you can see the margin of error at the bottom. according to the polls -- florida voters did choose trump in the 2016 election giving him a narrow victory over hilary clinton. joining me now, nbc political reporter ali vitali. the swing state. there you are in florida. the president gonna be there. having two key meetings and one of which you are at. >> exactly, richard. you're right, this is a swinging swing state that you lay out the numbers are close to split here is not surprising because we're used to one and two-point margins in this state. that's what it was in 2016 when trump won here. as we look ahead to what the state will mean in 2020, it could very well be something similar. but you're right that he's taking his impeachment defense on the road. we saw before he left here that

he was, again, calling the impeachment inquiry a total hoax. and even just yesterday, we've seen his white house effectively continue to stonewall in this process. white house counsel pat cipollone sending a letter back to the house judiciary committee saying that they won't necessarily comply with anything that that committee is asking for. pretty much keeping in lockstep with what we've seen from the white house each step of this impeachment inquiry. but they're looking ahead to when and if this eventually gets to the senate. at the end of that letter from cipollone, there is a reminder that president trump tweeted earlier in the week basically saying, if you're going to impeach me, do it quickly so we can get to the senate where trump thinks he's going to have a fair trial. that's because republicans are in charge of that body. and the beat that i typically cover, 2020 and democrats, that means they are on a crash course if the house was to pass these articles of impeachment. that means that it goes to the senate and all those democrats who are campaigning for president right now, that means less time in iowa and new hampshire ahead of critical voting times. and a lot more time spent in

washington. so all of these beats about to come on a crash course in just a few weeks, richard, if the house does push forward with impeachment. >> ali, something you see when you're on the road is that distinction between what has either been leveling off or slight diminishing support for impeachment and remove. that is, if you watch the numbers on the averages, that's where things have come to today. but on the flip side, we have to look at the vote. right? what's going to be happening in 2020, as you're alluding to? i want to go to one of the polls that came out in swing states iowa, wisconsin, michigan, ohio, and pennsylvania disapproval ratings here. mid-50s for most of them. so one might say is that if you look at what's happening with the impeachment inquiry, it's starting to hurt approval of the president potentially. or certainly not helping. especially, when you look at these numbers. >> that's exactly right. that's why there was so much skepticism on our parts and other reporters when we heard allies of the white house and the white house saying that impeachment would help president

trump. i ask voters regularly when i'm out on the campaign trail. many of them have said, regardless of what their initial bias was going into these impeachment inquiries, that they're watching and they're paying attention. it's not necessarily changing anybody's minds. those voters who think that the president did something wrong with his phone call with the ukrainian president, they generally watch those hearings and they feel the same way. those who didn't feel that way, still don't feel that way. but they're all watching. i do think, though, when you have this consistent drumbeat coming out of washington talking about the president's wrongdoings from democrats, that does allow that narrative to take hold. and eventually, all of these roads do lead to 2020. democrats on the campaign trail consistently pressing the case against donald trump. but look. they're going to have to do it in a different way. washington democrats are making the case on impeachment. the challenge for democrats on the campaign trail is to make that argument on other fronts. whether it's the economy or other policy items. we're seeing that split play out in realtime, as well, richard. >> always great to have you.

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both parties today. democrats led by speaker nancy pelosi must decide whether they are willing to risk alienating crucial voting blocks during pivotal election year by pushing impeachment. republicans led by house minority leader kevin mccarthy must decide whether they can get away with continuing to attack the impeachment process while dodging questions about whether the president's dealings with ukraine were appropriate. >> ever appropriate for a president to ask for a country to investigate a political rival? >> okay. let's stick to the facts. the president asked a country to participate in a case that happened in 2016. that's 100% legal. that happens every -- >> on the phone call -- >> -- that happens every day in america dealing with other countries. >> this president did nothing wrong. there was nothing we found impeachable. he did not do anything wrong. i've said all along it's easy

for us to make the argument because the process is terrible. >> you have no problem with any of this? >> i have zero problems with this phone call. >> is it appropriate for a president to -- >> we are going to have an investigation. >> the president did nothing wrong. the facts are on our side. four facts never change. the idea we have the transcript. the transcript shows there was no linkage between an investigation and getting security assistance dollars. >> do you think that was an appropriate request? >> i absolutely believe our country should be working together to get to the bottom of what happened. whether it's burisma, it's joe biden, it's hunter biden. >> joining me now, former deputy labor secretary and white house cabinet secretary during the obama administration, chris lou. michael gordon. former rnc spokesperson and former senior advisor to the romney/ryan campaign, kevin sheridan. and susan del percio. susan, as you know, we say home field advantage. as we look at this next week,

monday. you have a sense of the way that chairman nadler is thinking. the way he's defining what impeachment will be. but when we think of how congress is or is not working together on something that's so important to this constitution and to this republic. this is only written, these 55 pages that we got in today, by only the democrats. in the nixon era, it was actually written, this sort of guide of how to do this stuff, was written by both democrats and republicans. >> yeah. but -- and the dye has already been cast on all of this, richard. it is going to be a republican sl versus democrat. >> it is what it is. >> it is what it is and i think at this point, most of americans are kind of trying to figure out what's happening. but they already have the foregone conclusion that the president will be impeached and the senate will not convict him. so we can almost fast forward two months and be at the same exact place. the harder decision politically is now for the republicans. they don't have a lot more to lose frankly in the house, for

example. so it's a matter of the swing districts that the democrats now control that nancy pelosi's watching. in the senate, that's going to be a different story because there is the majority for the republicans to keep in some districts that are very much for or i should say states that are for impeaching the president. but again, they're all playing to who -- to their new silos. if you're conservative, you're playing to the conservative new silo. if you are a liberal, you're playing to the liberal new silo. that's why we're still 50/50. >> chris lou, is it cast? >> well, i think it is cast. and i think what's important to understand is that i think when you look at public support for whether the impeachment inquiry or impeachment generally. you know, it's going to be about 45% on either side. as susan side, we are a polarized country. support for impeachment is certainly higher than itse was during clinton and nixon. and so i think the real key is can you persuade the people in the middle? the 10% who are independents.

and it's important to understand donald trump won independents by 4%age points in 2016. that group swung wildly to democrats in 2018. so those are the people, as susan said, are going to be the margin of error in these swing house districts. but then when you get to the senate, it's places like colorado, arizona, north carolina. that will determine the battle for not only the impeachment verdict but obviously control of the senate in 2020. >> staying in the beltway. staying in the hearing. staying in the senate for the moment. kevin, chris murphy senator from connecticut was saying, hey. i may have had conversations that intimate to me that there are five, at maximum, republican senators that might be thinking otherwise from that which has been said so far. is that a possibility? when we do get to the senate, the great senate, theoretically that we will have some cracks or more moderation in some spaces here? because you need the 51 votes to move forward when it comes to process in the hearing. >> there is some soft support.

i think if -- if there was a movement for censure, i think you'd see some republican senators actually move that way. to impeach and remove, though, there's no chance of that happening now. you need a super majority for that. obviously. and the senate -- even the soft senate -- soft trump supporting senators haven't made enough noise to make that anywhere near a possibility. so i think it's -- it's interesting to look at the 31 democrats in the house who are in trump districts. new polling has it that, you know, impeach and remove is -- is as much as 60% unpopular in those states or in those districts. so look. we don't know what the articles are ultimately going to be. but right now, democrats don't have the case. they can impeach but they can't convict. >> when you look at those numbers, and i want to go take a look at the approval ratings for president trump in key midwestern states you're alluding to there, kevin. iowa, wisconsin, michigan, ohio, pennsylvania. i was talking a little earlier, you know, you have to split the difference here because it's not

only necessarily what's happening in impeachment and removal point of view but it's also later on for 2020 november that this all could affect to some degree. michael gordon -- and -- and you have to split the difference here if you are in one of those swing districts. >> absolutely. i -- i certainly wouldn't take anything for granted about those -- those ratings either. you know, i think the big missed opportunity for the democrats is it's not enough to be right. they certainly have done an impeccable job on the hearings. but they are not reaching to those purple districts where either the democrats are currently holding or where republicans are. to either protect their democrats or put pressure on the republicans. and the same thing in the swing states. republicans are spending an enormous amount in paid media, much more than the democrats are. >> almost double by last count. >> yeah. and so -- and the democrats need to do that kind of work, too. you know, we're living in an era where it seems like nothing matters. and so the democrats ran these incredible hearings. it had minimal impact on the

poll numbers. trump's behavior gets worse and worse. it has minimal impact on his numbers. i'll even say biden, you know, makes a lot of gaps on the campaign trail. he's still the front-runner for the nomination. so it feels like we're living in an era where nothing matters unless you really work hard to make your case in the places that count. >> susan? >> just one thing, richard. you showed all those numbers on impeachment. >> right. >> do not confuse those numbers with the president's favorability numbers or if he's doing a good job. they are not reflective of that. there's a -- that 10%, if you will, that was just mentioned. that in the middle that they don't -- some of them just don't like the idea of -- of getting him out this way. they're willing to vote him out but not necessarily impeach him. >> as a polls stter, those are three separate questions. who do you vote for in 2020? do you support impeachment? do you approval or disapproval for the president right now? so how do you put those together since you brought it up, susan? >> well, basically -- you have to look into internal polls and

you find out who is gettable and how they're gettable. that's how you have to look at those polls. and say, all right. well, those who are obviously for impeachment, you're never going -- or not against impeachment, you're probably not going to get as a democrat. but there is some work to be done if you -- if people in your district are against impeachment but they also have a high unfavorable view of the president. >> you know, and we look at the two different parties here, chris lu. top issues. this is coming from 2020 early state -- early states. and i'll look at top issues for democrats first. top issue, healthcare. 87%. impeaching the president, down there at 52%. for republicans, impeach president's not even on my list here. it's not even here. at the top of the list, it is immigration, 29%. so just some ideas of how the point of view of the world is -- is very different for both parties at the moment. >> well, it also explains why there's a bifurcated message

among the 2020 presidential candidates and what's happening in washington. i mean, when you're out in iowa, people are talking about healthcare. they're talking about student loans. they're talking about education. they're not talking about impeachment. and meanwhile, people in washington are focusing on impeachment. so i think that certainly gives the luxury of the democratic candidates because they understand the focus is on the president here in washington. and that does have the collateral damage i think of bringing down some of his approval ratings. again, not to say that's why democrats are doing. while they can focus on the issues in a more affirmative agenda. >> kevin, i was looking at the numbers for issues that are important to republicans. none of them -- and we'll put that back up again. you probably noticed it too. none of them are over 30%. and, you know, i'm no pollster but what does that tell you? because when you look at the issues that are important to democrats, they're all over 50-60%. what do you make of that? >> well, i think republicans are generally happy right now. there's a few things they'd like to see get done and trade is --

is an important one. not necessarily on that list. but it's one of the things that the congress could actually get done. but if we freeze up the senate for -- for who knows how long, well into february, that does a couple things. it freezes any legislation from getting passed. and it also freezes all the senators who are running for president from campaigning. and who does that benefit? that benefits pete buttigieg and -- and mike bloomberg i guess because everybody else is going to be stuck in the senate six days a week. >> and -- and quickly, i want to get to one other point while we have all of you here. when we look at this, michael, and what leader pelosi needs to do moving forward. trying to get to the votes if she is pushing for impeachment as the articles are being written this weekend potentially. it's -- the word is she -- she can't actively or does not want to actively whip the vote. like, let everybody -- the word is -- make their own decision on their own because this is not, if you will, a -- should not be a hyperpolitical, let's all get together and make the choice.

is that the right way to do it? >> yeah. so she wants members to vote their conscious because she sees this as an important moment in our history. trump isn't looking at it that way but that's why she had such a somber serious tone when she made her announcement the other day. but i also think she's thinking that we need to get this over as quickly as possible so that we can talk about the issues that we are clearly winning on. the issues of healthcare. affordable housing. gun safety. education. those are the issues that voters care about. those are the issues that real people outside of washington will vote on in those swing states next november. and so the quicker we can get impeachment done, even if he's not removed, the quicker we can get to those issues. >> 15 seconds. susan. >> make no mistake about it. nancy pelosi knows where every vote is. >> she just knows. >> and that's the way we will leave it. thank you and have a good sunday -- saturday. i'm already thinking it's the end of the weekend. we'll be back right after this. more on the impeachment fight.

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with house speaker nancy pelosi moving forward with drafting articles of impeachment, the senate trial seems inevitable. one of the key figures in that, senator lindsey graham, chairman of the judiciary committee, who's been talking about what he will do and what he will not. >> i think it's a bad day for the country. i think this whole thing is a joke. mueller, i trusted. i don't trust shift. i don't trust nadler to find the

truth. and the speaker said it should be bipartisan, it should be prayerful, it should be thoughtful. so what happened? i don't have any desire to subpoena adam schiff's phone records. i wouldn't want my phone records subpoenaed. now, if some investigative body outside senate oversight wants to do it, that's up to them. but when house members and senators start subpoenaing each other as part of oversight, really the whole system breaks. >> if you exclude hearsay as the basis for impeachment, which every court in the land would unless there is an exception. i will not allow trial to go forward with my vote unless the whistle-blower comes forward. >> lindsey graham. coming up, the other key figure in a potential senate trial. mitch mcconnell. es cause wrinkls and there's nothing you can do about it? now there's a solution! downy wrinkleguard is a fabric conditioner that helps protect you from wrinkles all day. just pour the dye free liquid into the rinse dispenser.

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♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. obviously, the first thing senator schumer and i will do is see if there's a possibility on agreement of procedure. that failing, i would probably come back to my own members and say, okay, can 51 of us agree how we're going to handle this? that failing, my assumption is

once you heard the arguments on both sides and motions would be made. my suspicion is the chief justice would not want to rule on those. he would submit them to the senate. and 51 of us would decide on a case-by-case basis how to go forward. >> mitch mcconnell there says he's ready to work out a deal with minority leader chuck schumer. you heard that on how to proceed with t with a senate impeachment trial. that number 51, you are going to hear it a lot. as the majority leader mentioned, it's crucial. the number 67, which you probably heard more often, to remove the president from office. the 51 or just the 51 votes required are to support or oppose any procedural motions. who might be testifying. who -- what is the next step the senate will undertake? now, if a majority is unattainable at 51, both parties will partake in a series of votes on various motions, which could include anything from summoning witnesses to how to manage floor time. so while the president's tweets suggest he expects the bidens,

adam schiff, nancy pelosi, and the whistle-blower to be called to testify in the senate trial. it will only take a few republicans, you know, could be mitt romney. susan collins. lisa murkowski. familiar names you might know of that are moderate republicans. to join democrats to block potential requests like that. okay. my panel's back with me. and that's just scratching the surface at the moment. jonathan alan and, you know, for geeks i guess, you can really read into this because the rules are so specific about what will happen in the senate. but i think a bigger idea is mitch mcconnell and how he plans on running this. from what we heard just now that we played, he's already talking about working with the democrats. >> yeah. at some level, what he is saying there is a warning to the democrats that if they don't work with him, the senate can break down pretty easily. and that republicans have the majority there. 51 votes to do anything. and it will be very difficult for the democrats to get 51 votes on anything that they want. >> right. we're talking about just the

potential witness list, for instance, or those who might give testimony and be part of a hearing. what are you hearing, anne, on that? because if they do, if the president does request certain -- certain individuals to come to the hearing, it's really not his game? or it could be his game? >> well, i mean, certainly the asuchl assumption has been that when we get to the senate, that mitch mcconnell and -- and the republicans will have already agreed basically on -- on how far they are going to allow it to go. not only the length of time they expect the -- the trial to take. but how they want to -- to manage the -- the -- the rules, which includes who testifies and a number of other procedural things. that mcconnell will have worked that out ahead of time. you can kind of see him working it out in realtime now. but i -- i do not -- i do not think it is to look particularly chaotic unless there's some -- something

new happens or to your point from earlier, that a number of moderate republicans start to defect. then i think you could start to see things look a little topsy-turvy but mcconnell plans to keep it tight and to, you know, have things agreed ahead of time, what he will agree to and what he won't. >> the beat, the white house, do we expect the president will then potentially go after mcconnell if he doesn't see, for instance, adam schiff being asked to come to the hearing? >> well, yes, in a word. the president has already done this in other settings. he and mcconnell have actually a much better relationship than they used to. they used to rub one another the wrong way and each would let it show but they need each other and mcconnell has found a way to do things for the president that

really secure his position, i mean obviously he doesn't need the president to secure his position specifically, but i mean to kind of make sure that the president isn't nipping at his heels. however, if trump starts to feel that mcconnell is letting too much happen that the president doesn't like, then i would fully expect to see him tweet his displeasure. trump has resigned himself, however, to the fact that this is going to go forward, that he will be impeached by the house, although he hates the idea and that it will go on to the senate and it's his view and mcconnell's and they've talked about this, that this will actually ultimately be a political boon. >> the chief justice will be presiding over this hearing and how might the chief justice and

mitch mcconnell butt heads, if you will, in a way? >> i don't think there's going to be as much conflict between the two of them. going to this point on whether there will be rules in place, i think, it's in neither party's interests to start the proceed ogz without rules in advance and as a result the last time we went through this as a country those rules were set down in advance and so the easiest thing would be to go back to that template used during the clinton impeachment trial as a kind of a default and i imagine that if they can't get agreement in advance on something else that someone will make a move to sort of go back to that as a default. i think those are very fair to both sides and can set things up. now, you mention the chief justice's role. he steps in and presides over

the proceedings but unlike a typical judge he won't have the final say over evidentiary rulings. he won't even have the final say over requests for subpoenas. any single senator if we go by the rules established last time can make such a request and then call for a vote. and it will just take 51 votes to either uphold what the chief justice has ruled or to overturn it. >> you know, jonathan, the other major character, we played some of what he said recently, senator lindsey graham who chairs the judiciary committee in the senate, what's his role going to be. >> it's mostly going to be to shape the debate outside the senate, mostly senators, in fact, all these senators will be largely quiet on the senate floor. you expect him to carry some water for the president in terms of any motions on the floor, but this is somebody who is going to try to shape the public narrative. something he did during the clinton impeachment back 20

years ago, something he's been trying to do for president trump since running against president trump for president in 2016 as he has become one of his chief advocates on capitol hill so you can expect him to run to cameras. >> anne gearan, your thoughts? one minute to you. >> i agree with jonathan. i think for lindsey graham that his main role will be to be the prosecutor outside the courtroom. he was a prosecutor in his previous life. he's a lawyer. he understands exactly what is happening here and he will be able to convey it in politically advantageous terms for the president in the hallway. >> robert tsai, what is one thing you'll watch for chairman nadler and the lawyers that come to give their testimony? >> well, i think that this week, what we're sort of trying to figure out and watching for is

how many articles of impeachment the judiciary ultimately lays out and when you read the report that just came out today, it does look like there's going to be a big decision as to whether there's going to be a separate count for bribery and abuse of power and also a question about what to do with the mueller report and then finally a question of whether to expand it to include things like corruption which is mentioned repeatedly throughout the document. >> a lot of possibilities. robert, anne, jonathan, thank you so much. >> thanks. >> that wraps it up for me. i'm richard lui. our coverage continues right after the break. ♪

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well, it is day 75 in the impeachment inquiry and a busy one at that. today the house judiciary committee released this report on grounds for impeachment. the original document was written during the nixon impeachment process. it was updated during clinton's inquiry. now updated again fairly extensively prepared now for the case against donald trump, 55 pages long. jerry nadler released a statement saying the framers' worst nightmare is what we are facing in this very moment. if you could tell it's a working weekend for nadler and his team on the hill. go time is monday. the next impeachment