thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live. we'll be back next saturday at 2:00 p.m. eastern time. follow me on twitter and instagram. the news continues with richard. it's my favorite time of the week. >> it is the favorite time. good afternoon to all of you. thanks for spending your sunday with us. it is day 76 of the impeachment inquiry. we are on the eve of the big house hearing that will likely initiate lrls of impeachment potentially this week. this morning we got a preview of what to expect from the man

leading the proceedings, how judiciary chairman jerry nadler saying impeachment articles will presumably be introduced this week. both parties making the sunday morning rounds. >> the process is ill legitimate. you don't want an anonymous person to be able to create pilot proceedings. >> we have a solid case. >> the democrats are looking for a partisan impeachment of the president of the united states. >> if presented to a jury is a guilty verdict in about three minutes flat. >> the evolving standard for impeachment. >> this is a classic example of an impeachable offense. >> the focus is on the president's misconduct. >> we have to move forward. >> abuse of power, might be

obstruction of congress. the president accused democrats of changing the impeachment guidelines less than 48 hours before the hearing. he's referring to this. a 55 page document released yesterday afternoon. it lays out how impeachment will be defined in the hearings. it builds on the report that was originally written and in the nixon era last updated for the nixon impeachment. our panel of experts is ready to break down all this detail in a moment. but first, we go to nbc news lee ann caldwell live on capitol hill. i guess, if you're watching coming and going, you're wondering what did chairman nadler mean? will we see articles this week? >>. >> we could see rls. that's what chairman nadler, one of the people in charge of this

process said this morning. the reason i'm on capitol hill on a sunday is because members of the committee, the judiciary committee are meeting behind me right now. they're practicing for the big hearing tomorrow. and tomorrow is the democrat's next best chance to sell this impeachment wrr to the american public. so you're going to hear from house judiciary council, and they're going to lay out the legal argument for impeachment. and then you're going to hear from the house intelligence committee council who will present the evidence they found during their entire investigation. if you did not read the 300 page intelligence committee report, tune in tomorrow. this is going to be the audio or video book version of that with, though, some more interesting details. because the republicans are going to be involved. and you could expect their point of view obviously, but also perhaps some delay or stalling tactics to try to throw the

democrats off their game. so that is why house democrats on this judiciary committee have been practicing all weekend to prepare for this. >> part of this was a discussion yesterday about president trump saying you know, i want to -- i might get a report that will be presented to congress from rudy giuliani, my own personal attorney. what's the read? >> well, they're not talking a lot about that. they've focusing on their mission. they know giuliani and the president are wild cards. but while the president has said he's not going to participate in the house portion of this impeachment inquiry, he's still taking to twitter and tweeting at members of congress some of those who are in the committee room behind me, practicing, and they are responding with their own tweets, taking selfies saying while you're tweeting at us, we're here to held you accountable and uphold the constitution. >> all right.

lee ann on the hill for us today. thank you so much. let's go to our panel. nile, the hill white house columnis columnist. thank you all four, and nile, so the messaging we heard on the sunday, if you're on the left, you're saying the right is not listening. if you're on the right, the left is not listening. is there any way that chairman nadler can move this more toward the middle of the aisle, the middle of the space and say no, we actually are trying to do something that is fair and going down the middle? >> well, the question presumes the middle still exists in american politics. and that is pretty questionable these days. now, i do think the chairman nadler has a lot of evidence to marshal. he can make a very strong argument. but when we look at what

president trump and his allies are doing in response, it's not engaging in evidence or not seeking to appeal to the middle ground. look, what president trump and his propaganda people have been engaged in is an assault on the idea that these facts exist or that there is valid grounds for impeachment. president trump talks about the famous transscript of the call being perfect. well, it's not, but he is engaged in an effort to enflame his supporters. to delegitimize this investigation. that's the focus on his effort from his allies in congress and the media. >> david, there is no middle here. let's talk about what house speaker pelosi might do. he leads the democrats in the house, kristen welker was speaking to sources relevant to what speaker pelosi might input into the process. the sources saying consider

holding the articles once they have been passed. why might that make sense? >> well, it makes sense because it's now just explained, the strategy from trump and the republicans is to not only ignore the truth or realities but to create alternative narratives. mark meadows, one of the house republicans defending trump was on the show this morning, and he was asked well, is it wrong for trump to ask for a call on the transcript that came out to investigate on another rooifrl. he said that didn't happen. it did happen. at this point where trump and his cult members are denying any of the even basic facts here. so the problem is if the democrats pass articles of impeachment this week, next week, or before christmas and they hand it over to the senate, who controls the senate? the republicans. they can really take -- run to town and turn a trial an

impeachment trial perhaps into an investigation of joe biden and burisma and ukraine meddling in things that aren't center here that don't even exist, and the democrats will lose control of the factual narratives. that's one reason to maybe pass articles of impeachment but not hand the story over to people who have denied basic elements of it. >> and one part of the elements that might be introduced if you hold the articles, as you wait for a potential trial, is that there's a question of what federal judges will decide when it comes to the decision do i answer the congressional subpoena or do i listen to what the white house is saying about executive privilege? that, of course, affects mulvaney and john bolton, cooperman and others. that's a potential reason to wait. >> that's a good potential reason to wait. we -- the law is pretty clear in this -- there's not a lot of

precedent, but to extent there is, the law is on the side of the democrats here. and you've heard a lot of rhetoric from the republicans about how rushed the process is, and how we don't have firsthand testimony from many of the relevant witnesses so the law is on the side of the democrats, and the facts very likely will be from the secondhand testimony, and in some cases firsthand, that we've heard from other witnesses. so certainly that could play to the democrats' favor, putting aside, of course, the timing and political issues that they will face given the delays that will be occasioned or necessarily a part of the process for the court to hear the cases out. >> representative, yesterday some of the guests on the show were saying this is cast. we're done on left and right in the house. this is just done. right? and so as you look forward to the next step, maybe democrats are saying we are going to move full steam ahead because there

is no possibility of finding what nile was saying may not exist, the middle ground. >> well, there's one more inflection point for pelosi. i do believe the judiciary committee will proceed and pass articles of impeachment, but whether or not they make it to the floor before the end of the year, that is certainly an open question. and it's true. there isn't a middle on whether or not the president should be removed from office. the country is about split evenly on that question. however, approximately 70% of americans do believe that the president did something wrong or inappropriate. and i think nanly pelosi has an opportunity to appeal to that 70% by deferring this question of impeachment unless, of course, there's new testimony that really pushes another 10%, 20% of the american public, but in absence of that pelosi has the opportunity to defer to the american people and say this question will be answered in november of 2020.

i think a lot of americans, especially americans in the middle, will feel empowered by that decision. will take some ownership of their democracy, and will probably take the 2020 election a lot more seriously than they would otherwise. >> i want to go back to what was mentioned earlier, rudy giuliani getting into the conversation again. this brought up by the president, rudy giuliani also responding to that, and saying all my conversations are privileged. and he can disclose what he's comfortable with. i am in process of still analyzing what i received. nile, when you think maybe giuliani may not be part of the conversation, the hand goes up in the air. >> rudy giuliani is not testifying under oath. i would put all my life savings on that outcome. i don't think that's any realistic possibility. i know the president was talking up the idea, but, look, rudy

giuliani often makes it up but goes long. that's being candid. the idea of doing that under penalty of perjury seems extraordinarily unlikely to me. he's clearly been rumming this shadow foreign policy, if you want to call it that. he's clearly involved in a lot of pretty murky business in ukraine. but the idea that he's going to come back with some report that blows the democratic case apart, i think that's an absurd contention that's made for political reasons. >> as it ruminates about all of this for the democrats here, adam schiff, chair of the intel committee said today on the sundays, if i were going through this, i might focus on the articles of impeachment that have the strongest case to be made. when you go through the report that came out yesterday, it seems to leave a lot of open space in terms of the potential articles of impeachment that will be considered. mueller also part of that.

that could be a third rail for some. >> yeah. there's definitely an openness as to whether or not the mueller piece will be a part of the articles of impeachment. clearly there's consensus that the strong evidence at this point is with respect to the ukraine investigation and the obstruction of congress and justice. but there's an openness and certainly it will be part of the backdrop. it will be part of the context in terms of there's a pattern here of election interference and the speck or the that this will happen again in the 2020 elections. >> okay. thank you. have a great sunday. congressman, david, we'll see you in a little bit. coming up. authorities just this afternoon released new details on the naval base shooting in florida and whether they're ready to label this an act of terror. l t. we made usaa insurance for members like martin.

an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home. ♪ spread a little love today ♪ spread a little love my-y way ♪ ♪ spread a little something to remember ♪ philadelphia cream cheese. made with fresh milk and real cream makes your recipes their holiday favourites. the holidays are made with philly. their holiday favourites. for your worst sore throat pain, try vicks vapocool drops. it's not candy, it's powerful relief. ahhh vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops and try new vapocool spray. that's it. i'm calling kohler about their walk-in bath. nah. not gonna happen. my name is ken. how may i help you?

hi, i'm calling about kohler's walk-in bath. excellent! happy to help. huh? hold one moment please... [ finger snaps ] hmm. the kohler walk-in bath features an extra-wide opening and a low step-in at three inches, which is 25 to 60% lower than some leading competitors. the bath fills and drains quickly, while the heated seat soothes your back, neck and shoulders. kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. are you seeing this? the kohler walk-in bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohler-certified installer. and it's made by kohler- america's leading plumbing brand. we need this bath. yes. yes you do. a kohler walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. call... to save $500 off bath walls with your walk in bath. or visit kohlerwalkinbath.com for more info.

we continue to follow breaking news out of pensacola. the fbi expanding the investigation. federal investigators are saying they're moving forward adds if the shooting was an act of terror. >> we are as we do in most active shooter investigations, work with the presumption that this was an act of terrorism. this allows us to take advantage of investigative techniques that

can help us more quickly identify and then eliminate any additional potential threats to the rest of our community. >> investigators say the shooter a second lieutenant in the royal saudi air force bought the gun that he used in his shooting rampage legally. for more on what is the next ste step. >> they consider terror or not in terms of including that word in this report, what is the next step here, blaine? >> well, i think they have several next steps. one thing they've talked about in the news conference is there are several people that they are asking questions of. they mentioned a group of saudi nationals, fellow classmates of his here on the base that they are cooperating with the investigation. they also talked about the fact ha they're going to be talking to associates of his, people

wiin class are him and what led him to talk into the classroom building and fire. it's an important distinction they're investigating it has if t an act of terror, but they have not determined the motive. they said he's the only gun marn. there have been no arrests. they said as part of the investigation they're working to determine if he acted alone or if this is part of a larger network. a number of questions they're going to be asking in the days to come. now, as for how he obtained the firearm is important. they talked about in the news conference, they revealed it was a glock 9 millimeter handgun. they said it was purchased legally. we know, of course, through our reporting, through our colleagues and law enforcement sources who have said that he actually exploited a loophole in the law that allowed him to purchase it. it was purchased from a gun

dealer in pensacola, florida. they wouldn't give the time frame. typically it would not be legal for someone who is a noncitizen to purchase. because he has a hunting license, he went through a loophole and purchased the firearm. >> good explanation. thank you on that. coming up for you, the president awaits the result of two reports on the origins of the russia probe. one of those reports due out tomorrow. another report is out also next week. before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins.

change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. lei thought i was managingns? my moderate to severe crohn's disease. then i realized something was missing... me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there. so, i talked to my doctor and learned humira is for people who still have symptoms

of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, remission is possible.

the amount of student loan debt i have, i'm embarrassed to even say. we just decided we didn't want debt any longer. ♪ i didn't realize how easy investing could be. i'm picking companies that i believe in. ♪ i think sofi money is amazing.

♪ thank you sofi. sofi thank you, we love you. ♪ i'm looking forward to seeing the ig report. i hear they're announcing it monday. i look forward very much to seeing what happened with the durham report, maybe even more importantly, because it's a horrible thing that took place and it should never happen to another president. president trump says he's anxiously awaiting the results of two separate investigations into the origins of russia probe that are coming out this week. the first report expected to be released tomorrow, this report summarizes the investigation led by the justice department on the left hand side of the screen. that's the inspector general, michael horowitz. he started that investigation

march 2, '01 under jeff sessions. the second investigation, the right hand side of your screen being led by connecticut u.s. attorney john durham who was hand picked by attorney general william barr in may. now, one of the key differences between the two probes that you see here, the ig report is internal limited to current government employees. the durham report on the right has subpoena powers and could theoretically include an interview anyone. we don't know when durham's findings will be made public. "the new york times" reporting the inspector general's findings are expected to point out some flaws of the fbi's handling of the russia investigation. but the findings stop short of claiming any politically biassed actions were taken against president trump. the ig report also reportedly debunks accusations of improper

spying on the trump 2016 campaign. this is a claim that has been advanced by both the president and his attorney general. >> spying on a political campaign is a big deal. >> you're not suggesting, though, that spy og cured? >> i don't -- well, i guess you could -- i think there's a -- spying did occur, yes, i think spying did occur. >> with us now, reporter for the wall street journal and back with me msnbc contributor and washington bureau chief. these are both department of justice reports. we know that the ig report is something that attorney general barr according to washington post does not like. he is not agreeing with the headline here that there's no political motivation. where does this leave us with the ig report that's coming out?

>> specifically the attorney general has said to some of his allies he doesn't believe michael horowitz, that he believes michael horowitz studied too narrow a set of questions to answer the question about whether there was a legal basis to open the russia investigation. the inspector general is expected to find there was a legal basis for this. any failure by bar to fully embrace the findings of the report could lead to criticism that he's acting more like the lawyer. this is the criticism dogging barr throughout his time as attorney general, and so there's going to be a lot of questions about how he responds to this and how he handles this. >> david, if you're a republican, and you're watching the sunday shows today, the countier to the ig report is it is too narrow. it does not include enough people that were interviewed. therefore, the data set is not big enough. >> they haven't seen the report.

this is the prespin, because the indication from all the reporting done so far is that the report is going to blow out of the water donald trump, the fox news version of conspiracy theories that the russian investigation was a witch hunt, was a hoax, and it was started for political reasons and large, they claim -- >> i have 32 minutes, but we can't do all of them. >> i know. but by and large the claim is deep state, obama, democrats, media, you, me, everybody else plotted to get a russia investigation going to forward trump and never and this was al done politically and there was no legitimacy to the russia investigation. the ig report is likely to show and what we know is the fbi had a very good reason to start looking at connections between the trump campaign and russia while r election to help

trump. so i think they're going to pick out certain things. there will be some low lying fbi guys who will get slapped for not doing everything correctly with every pfizer or warren application. the big picture is that what trump isn't saying it was a witch hunt and he was spied upon by the obama administration, that's the scandal. it's going to be shown to be proven to be just another trump yan distraction. >> you know, representative on the lower level attorney, potentially we hear in this report not acting along the letter of the law. is this enough if you're a republican, if you're against this report to say give me an inch, take a mile there? >> richard, you can expect the president to use this report, specifically any criticisms of the fbi, any highlighting of irregularities or vital of processes, the president is

going to grasp onto those and say those items validate all his claims, and that he has been vindicated and it's up to everyone else, and especially those who do the reporting in this country, to highlight the entirety of the report. especially the parts that disprove a lot of what the president has alleged. the fbi handled this perfectly? no. it did not. does that mean there was some conspiracy to spy against the president? to hurt the president's campaign politically? that's not true either. but you can certainly expect that the president is going to trumpet that the criticism and irregularities in the report highlight everything he's been s saying. >> our reading list has not been long enough. what about the second report? the durham report, and as our other two great panels have noted, how that will be handled

politically. what about this other report from durham? >> well, this certainly elevates the hype around the durham report. if the attorney general says that basically he's not convinced that horowitz was able to answer a fundamental question about the russia investigation, that leaves the durham investigation which is sort of i think people inside lot of questions about what the predicate is, and what this federal prosecutor is operating on. there's no timeline for the completion of that report. and so that allows the attorney general and the president to have something to point to even as it gets closer to the 2020 election. so i think there's a little bit of concern among the rank and file in the justice department about the durham report, but the attorney general says that it will ultimately answer the bigger questions about whether there was a legal basis for the russia investigation. >> do you know the time for the completion of that? >> there is no time frame for the completion. people have said durham is

methodical and is going to take his time and get things done the right way. >> it's not clear he'll produce a report. he's conducting a review. there may be criminal charges and low lying issues, but there's no obligation for him at the end of the day to produce a report, certainly not one for the public. it may happen, but it may not. >> the question is will it appear to be neutral? that's the question, david. >> well, you know, we'll see. i mean, it looks like the ig report is going to be a big swing and a miss for trump and barr, and let's see what they may try to push durham to do in the coming months. we don't know. and how far he's willing to go. >> it will be interesting to see what they try to grasp onto. because the administration views all of these reports as opportunities to muddy the waters, produce smoke and mirrors and just kind of create noise generate noise to deflect attention from some of the real trouble they have.

>> what does this say about the state of the doj? we have two reports from two different cultures almost in a way of what might come to the end, and if you're in the white house, you may not like either of them. >> it's really troubling for our institutions. department of justice, just like department of states, politics have permeated these two departments in a very detriment tall way to our democracy. you see a lot of career people leaving the government because they're not used to this. they're professionals. they're not used to this kind of environment, and quite frankly, coming from a family who had to leave their country because institutions broke down, because people lost respect for the rule of law, i don't think we're on a good path in this country, and people really need to start paying attack. >> sadie, how is doj doing? how is rank and file doing? how is leadership doing? how are they not or are working together? >> well, i think representative what you pointed out is a

concern for the rank and file among doj. there are thousands of doj employees whose work is not political, but when something like this happens and critics latch an to findings in an inspector general's report, that kind of creates a pull over the entire justice department even though there is a small sliver of what the justice department is working on. i think that's a concern for the employees. as for leadership, i think the focus will be on the attorney general and how he responds to this. critics are concerned that he might, again, take actions that may be viewed as overly favorable to the president, and so i think the spotlight is on him and on the durham probe going forward. >> and as "the washington post" was reporting going back to the article that i was mentioning at the top, durham has spoken with horowitz in saying he would not or cannot endorse that theory that the investigation was clearly some kind of coupe at the end of the day. we'll see that ashley comes out

to pass when we see the durham report. great conversation. thank you all. sadie, david, congressman, thank you all three. >> thank you. >> all right. coming up. nikki haley coming under fire for comments she made about the confederate flag. oh! oh! oh!

♪ ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c

of less than 7 and maintained it. oh! under 7? (announcer) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (announcer) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? (announcer) ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes, or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not share needles or pens. don't reuse needles. do not take ozempic® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to ozempic®. stop taking ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, itching, rash, or trouble breathing. serious side effects may happen, including pancreatitis. tell your doctor if you have diabetic retinopathy or vision changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase the risk for low blood sugar. common side effects are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, and constipation.

some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. i discovered the potential with ozempic®. ♪ oh! oh! oh! ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) if eligible, you may pay as little as $25 per prescription. ask your health care provider today about once-weekly ozempic®. she fell to her knees. this is one of the oeltdest

african american churches. these 12 people were amazing people. they loved their church and family and community. and here is this guy that comes out with this manifesto holding the confederate flag and had just hijacked everything that people thought of. >> well, former south carolina governor nikki haley facing some criticism because of the remarks she made about the confederate flag. in an interview she called ate symbol of service, sacrifice and heritage that was hi jacked by dylann roof. roof is a self-proclaimed priet supremacist who said he killed people in the name of the confederate flag. at the time the governor, nikki haley quickly ordered the flag removed from state house grounds. >> we heard about the true pain that many had felt. and we took the time to understand it. i saw passions get high.

i saw passions get low. but i saw commitment never ending. and so what we saw was another action, and that action is that the confederate flag is coming off the grounds of the south carolina state house. >> well, the governor defended her latest comments about the flag on twitter this morning accusing media of creating this controversy. our next guest disagrees, tweeting let's be clear. nikki haley's continued use of this tragedy for political reasons is disgusting. >> ja moore lost a sister in the shooting we're talking about related to the confederate flag. thank you for being with us, representative. when you say nikki haley is using the tragedy as well as bringing up the flag for political reasons, what do you think she's doing? >> i read your -- thank you for

having me. frankly, we've seen this from the beginning four years ago. it was politically expedient for her to be supportive of the flag to come down, but it took nine people to be killed including my precious sister, my dear friend. look, i mean, it's just disgusting. i stand fully by my comments. and we have to really speak truth to power. >> and so when she appears to have had a change of view, why do you think she had a change of view? what did you think of her when she made the initial comment i played and now what she's saying today? >> look, i mean, i think once again, her comments kind of really talk about this idea of using a tragedy for political purposes. i don't think for me just watching the maturation of her

doing the right thing in 2015 to now, i think it's pandering to racists and white sprupremacist. and the governor is quite aware of the history of the confederate flag and is misinformed and misleading and disrespectful for her to equivocate the flag to being heritage. let me tell you about the heritage of the flag. the flag is a heritage of white supremacy, of racism and also treason. the flag was originally flown against the united states of america. and then we saw it reappear during the height of the civil rights movement. and that history we have to start speaking truth to power and just because she did the right thing four years ago doesn't give her a lifetime of pass in the civil right the movement. we're holding her accountability. this isn't a media created moment. this is her not having the political courage and will to do

the right thing, and let me say this. although the flag was a symbol of hatred, it was also a symbol of bigotry and of terrorism, and also treason, that's all that we've done over the past four years as far as righting the wrong in the african american community in south carolina. although that flag was the first step, we have to do more when we talk about justice for the people in south carolina. >> south carolina state representative j.a. moore, thank you for your time. >> thank you so much. >> you bet. coming up, we turn our attention back to the impeachment inquiry with a trip back to civics class. a little mini class. senate impeachment rules 101. 01e ninja foodi pressure cooker, the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps.

i didn't have to call 911.help. and i didn't have to come get you. because you didn't have another heart attack. not today. you took our conversation about your chronic coronary artery disease to heart. even with a stent procedure, your condition can get worse over time, and keep you at risk of blood clots. so you added xarelto®, to help keep you protected. xarelto®, when taken with low-dose aspirin, is proven to further reduce the risk of blood clots that can cause heart attack, stroke, or cardiovascular death in people with chronic cad. that's because while aspirin can help, it may not be enough to manage your risk of blood clots. in a clinical trial, almost 96% of people taking xarelto® did not have a cardiovascular event. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase your risk of heart attack, stroke, or cardiovascular death. while taking, a spinal injection increases the risk of blood clots which may cause paralysis- the inability to move. you may bruise more easily, or take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® can cause serious, and in rare cases, fatal bleeding.

it may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. before starting, tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures and any kidney or liver problems. enjoy every moment-and help protect yourself from an unexpected one, like a cardiovascular event. are you doing enough? ask your doctor if it's time for xarelto®. to learn more about cost and how janssen can help, visit xarelto.com. must be hot out there, huh? not especially. -[ slurping continues ] -what you drinking? gasoline. right, but i mean, what's in the cup? gasoline. [ slurping ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

you have the support of a probiotic and the gastroenterologists who developed it. align helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets, 24/7 with a strain of bacteria you can't get anywhere else. you could say align puts the pro in probiotic. so, where you go, the pro goes. go with align, the pros in digestive health. and try align gummies, with prebiotics and probiotics to help support digestive health. the senate trial of president trump is in sights. here are some of the rules explained about what it might look like this. the first few rules are mostly ceremonial. they involve the house managers presenting the articles themselves. the sergeant in arms will warn all persons are commanded to keep silent on pain on

imprisonment. the chief justice will preside and a writ of summons is delivered to an impeached president trump. it will ask for the president or representative to appear at this trial. now, some rules of note we also want to look at besides that which i started with, rule 19 which has no senator may, quote, engage in colloquy. they have to keep quiet. we'll see if that happens. rule 23 allows any senator to make a motion to adjourn the trial. effectively here, a motion to dismiss the entire proceeding. but look at rules 6 and 7, if you haven't already read about it. they could be the most important. that's because they control most of the evidence. they say the chief justice may rule on questions of evidence, and that is regarding rule 7. but the final say is a simple majority of 51 senators. more on that in a second. then let's talk about rule 6.

senators can compel the attendance of witnesses, bolton, biden, or schiff. >> he absolutely wants to bring forward serious witnesses like the whistleblower, like adam schiff, like hunter and joe biden. >> who do you want to hear from? >> probably mulvaney, probably bolton, but these are people the president has said none of you will testify and they have complied with that. >> the whistleblower. >> i think we all would like to hear from john bolton. we all would like to hear from mulvaney. >> let's bring in the writers of the article. ben, as i look through this, i was like this is really my road map or anybody's road map if you want to try to understand what's happening very soon in the senate trial. let's get to that question.

the asking of witnesses both sides wanting different people, ben, how will that happen? >> well, the magic number is 51, because as an initial matter, if one side wants to call a witness, the chief justice if he wants to, but only if he wants to, can rule on things like the relevance of the witness's testimony, but all judgments by the chief justice are subject to being overwritten, overridden by a vote of a majority of the senate. and so the key question and this is the key question about a lot of things, is whether republican have 51 votes that will hold together for purposes of motions including things like motions to dismiss, or whether the democrats will hold together and peel off a few republicans able apart from the question of how

people vote on convention at the end to hold together a coalition of 51 for purposes of evidence. >> ah. that's the key, right, hillary, is that coalition? who will be the better minds, if you will, on the right that may not agree with the president and what he wants to see in this senate trial? and therefore, the discussion between mcconnell and schumer, minority and majority leaders, becomes more important here. >> no, that's absolutely right. what's interesting is in the clinton trial we had an agreement, a coming together of the senate minority and majority leader in the beginning and set down the groundwork to fill in the details gnat senate rules don't fill in and because we don't have that agreement in sight and don't know if it will happen in today's political climate it depends on whether the democrats get four republicans ultimately to join their side in trying to pass different motions to bring in new witnesses and potentially

expand the house record. >> senators. moderate decisions being made. ben, is this mitch mcconnell's trial or is this the chief justice's trial? >> that is a super interesting question. and i think what we learned in the clinton trial was two important things. one is that when the majority and the minority get together and make a decision about rules the chief justice becomes pretty irrelevant and that's what happened. and the second thing we learned was that chief justice william rehnquist wanted to be irrelevant. i think he found it was not a good thing for the court, for him to be, you know, actively presiding and making rulings in a political environment like a senate trial of the president. so he was quite content to sit

back and not make a lot of rulings but just kind of defer to the agreement that the senate makes. but if as hillary suggested if you don't have an agreement between the majority and the minority then the first question becomes, does the chief justice want to play the role of like more of a judge, right? where people are making motions and he's ruling on them. or does he want to force the senate to make its own decisions? which case he can just refer stuff to them. second question, and this is the other one, is does mitch mcconnell have the votes to overrule him to the extent that rob rob roberts makes rulings that they don't like? i think those questions are very much up in the air and won't know what a senate trial looks like until we get a window into the answers to them. >> so then, hillary, if you are watching the trial, the two main

characters you keep your eyes on especially for folks like the two of you is the chief justice and mitch mcconnell. >> i think that's absolutely right. i think we've only had two times in our whole history of a senate trial of the president and in both those cases we have such different models of what the chief justice does and the chase model in the trial of andrew johnson intervening and breaking ties between the senators. and sort of treating the whole thing like a courtroom and then we had as ben suggested in the clinton hearing a passive approach and he brought cards to the trial. which models they approximate is anyone's guess. >> one question you might also ask here, ben, this motion to dismiss, rule 51, and how might that play out based on the complexion of the republican senators? >> right.

so look. you can dismiss the charges on a 51 vote majority. and so, i think the first really big question is do republicans have the votes to do that? or, are there republican senators who might vote to acquit at the end of the day? but are actually going to want to see a trial. if you're a republican senator, for example, corey gardner who has to face a difficult election in the fall, do you really want to go, you know, face a general election electorate having basically not been willing to hear the evidence at all? right? and so there may be a group of people who are not interested in voting to remove donald trump but actually do think it's important to hear the evidence. and the question is how many there are. i think you can -- it's pretty easy to count to three of those

people. i imagine that mitt romney and susan collins and lisa mu crkowi want to hear the evidence and how viable are they and depends on the counting to 51 question. >> ten seconds, hillary hurd. >> i would just say that there's one third option which is between acquittal and removal and that's a vote of censure and not been talked about by republican senators at all and it is interesting to see whether this third option becomes another point of debate. >> all right. ben, hillary, loved our mini senate trial 101 at the end of this hour. appreciate both of you so much. that will do it for me this week. >> pleasure. >> you got it. join me back here next saturday, sunday. reach me on social media. "politics nation" is next.

we present limu emu & doug with this key to the city. [ applause ] it's an honor to tell you that liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. and now we need to get back to work. [ applause and band playing ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

upbeat music♪ no cover-up spray here. cheaper aerosols can cover up odors in a flowery fog. but febreze air effects eliminates odors. with a 100% natural propellent. it leaves behind a pleasant scent you'll love. [ deep inhale] freshen up. don't cover up. febreze.

the best of pressure cooking and air frying now in one pot, and with tendercrisp technology, you can cook foods that are crispy on the outside and juicy on the inside. the ninja foodi pressure cooker, the pressure cooker that crisps. (kickstart my heart by motley crue)) (truck honks) (wheels screeching) (clapping) (sound of can hitting bag and bowl) (clapping) always there in crunch time.

the amount of student loan debt i have, i'm embarrassed to even say. we just decided we didn't want debt any longer. ♪ i didn't realize how easy investing could be. i'm picking companies that i believe in. ♪ i think sofi money is amazing. ♪ thank you sofi. sofi thank you, we love you. ♪ good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead -- it's the final countdown. in less than 24 hours, the house of representatives will hold the next and possibly the final impeachment hearing to lay out its case