up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd. this sunday the road to impeachment. >> the president leaves us no choice. >> speaker pelosi says the house will draft articles of impeachment against president trump. >> the president has engaged abuse of power, undermining our integrity and jeopardizing the integrity of our elections. >> democrats debate whether to focus on ukraine or take a broader approach. >> a pattern of behavior. >> pattern of behavior becomes clear. >> while republicans continue to denounce the process. >> this is a sham. >> that's a sham. >> this whole production is a sham. >> my guest, jerrold nadler, chairman of the house judiciary committee, and republican senator ted cruz of texas.

>> plus, power politics. the democratic candidates getting tough. >> they should open up the doors so that anyone can come in and report on what's being said. >> getting even. >> i'm doing exactly the same thing they're doing, except that i am using my own money. >> and getting out. >> i'm suspending our campaign today. >> the latest on a wild and wide open race. >> also, our angry country. >> a damn liar, man. >> why one congressman says our politics has left him soul weary. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post." former obama deputy campaign manager stephanie cutter. and former republican congressman carlos curbelo of florida. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd.

>> good sunday morning. given the constant storm of controversy and disruption that has defined the norm breaking trump presidency, it's easy to forget what a historic moment we have experienced with speaker nancy pelosi's announcement, it's become all but certainly donald trump will become the third american president in history to become impeached. that much we know, or think we do. at the same tie, there is so much we don't know. we don't know how many articles of impeachment the democrats will draw against president trump or what they will cover. we don't know what a senate trial would look like. we expected senate hearings for a supreme court nominee named merrick garland, and those didn't happen. we don't know if they can get 51-member majorities, and we don't know the extent of the federal investigation into rudy giuliani's activities or how close it could get to the president himself. most important, with impeachment, a possible government shutdown, a looming primary and caucus season followed by a full-on brutal presidential season campaign all in a deeply divided country, we

don't know how well the country can handle the stress test we're all about to face. >> i'm asking our chairman to proceed with articles of impeachment. >> after her historic announcement on impeachment, a murky road ahead. >> i'm not here to talk about that. >> nobody knows what's going on. >> i haven't answered your question because there's no answer at this point. >> on wednesday, senator mcconnell released the 2020 schedule with january missing, a dramatic nod to a possible impeachment trial. >> the only thing i know for sure is nobody knows what we're doing in january yet. >> house democrats are stim investigating the scope of impeachment charges. >> we're not writing the articles of impeachment here tonight. >> there's broad support among democrats for articles that address the core of the president's conduct on ukraine. but a divide over how broad an additional obstruction charge should be and reluctance by many moderate members expand the scope to conduct detailed in the mueller report. >> what do you think about adding mueller evidence to

potential obstruction of justice charges. >> here's what i would say to that. i was against going through with impeachment previous to the ukraine matter. >> i think we need to stay focused on ukraine. >> we do expect to lose some, and that's why i say it's a conscious volt. >> for months, the president and his allies have complained mr. trump deserves legal representation in the inquiry. >> we don't have rights to lawyers. not giving us lawyers. doesn't let us have lawyers. we had no representation. >> but on friday, white house counsel pat cipollone made it clear the president will not mount a defense in the house or even send lawyers to the judiciary committee's hearing on monday. >> will you testify? >> i don't know. i know this, that the impeachment thing is a total hoax. >> another unknown, the length and scope of any senate trial. the white house has signaled if there is a trial, the president wants to deflect attention from his conduct to a wish list of democratic witnesses. >> joe biden, hunter biden, adam schiff, and the whistleblower.

>> the whistleblower, adam schiff, joe biden, hunter biden. >> witnesses like the whistleblower, like adam schiff, like hunter and joe biden. >> in the end, though -- >> you have to get 51 votes. but at what point do 51 people say i have heard enough, i'm ready to vote? who knows. >> senate republicans will need the support of several of their own who have bill willing to break with the president in the past, and republicans up for re-election in compet tf races. perhaps not helpful in winning over senate republicans on the fence, the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani, who is at the center of the scandal, spent this week in ukraine. >> i just know he came back from someplace and he's going to make a report to the attorney general and to congress. he says he has a lot of good information. i have not spoken to him about that information. >> and joining me now is the chair of the house judiciary committee, democrat jerry nadler of new york. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. good to be here. >> okay. this week, what does this look like? is this the beginning of the

drafting of the articles of impeachment? is that what this week is going to be about? >> well, this week is going to start with tomorrow. tomorrow, monday, we'll have the report for the intelligence committee, an examination of their people by both sides. and after that, we'll have decisions to make about drafting articles and where it goes. >> explain how the process works. is this going to be in a committee hearing that we'll all watch or are you going to make the decisions behind closed doors to say, okay, we decided to do abuse of power here, bribery there? give me a sense of what it looks like. >> a lot of consulitations between members of the committee, with house leadership, with members of the house. and we'll have to make those decisions. we'll bring articles of impeachment presumably before the committee at some point later in the week. >> have you have an idea of how many articles you think we're going to draw or you're not ready yet? you seem to be hesitant. >> i'm not ready to decide that,

and it's not just my decision. >> is this speaker -- you may come up with recommendations and she ultimately says do this, not that? >> she'll have a role, as many other members of the caucus, but decisions have to be made based on everything we have learned until now and based on what we hear tomorrow. remember, some of these things are very clear at this point. there is overwhelming evidence, uncontested by the republicans, that the president put himself above the country. that the president sought foreign assistance in elections. sought to cover it up. completely defied participation in the congressional investigation. in order to hide his role. that he sought foreign assistance for the next election. >> what is that a definition of? an abuse of power allegation? is it bribery? what allegation are you describing? >> certainly abuse of power, might be obstruction of congress in his not cooperating. you know, he refused every

single document. he told everybody in the executive branch, do not cooperate. do not answer, do not testify. no president has ever done anything like that. so this is a defiance of the role of congress, given by the constitution for impeachment. but again, he put himself above the country. he sought to get foreign interference against the integrity of our election. this is a matter of urgency to deal with because we have to make sure that the next election is conducted with integrity and without foreign interference. >> during your hearing with constitutional scholars this week, you seemed to hint that you're inclined to include some of the allegations in the mueller report in an article or possibly more of impeachment. i know that is not -- as you know, that is not unanimous inside the democratic coxs. where are you on this? >> i'm reserving judgment. we're going to have to decide what to do after we have the evidence tomorrow and after consultations with others in the

caucus. there are a wide variety of factors to be considered including the degree of proof, the degree of confidence, and where the members of the caucus are. we certainly have an abundance of evidence on various things. again, the republicans have virtually not contested it. all they have said, all that they have said is they oppose the process but not the evidence. >> if pat cipollone shows up tomorrow, do you let him in, the president's counsel? >> he's not showing up. >> i understand, but if he changes his mind, this is the president of the united states. he might be tweeting as we're speaking, hey,women going to send my lawyer tomorrow. are you going to let him? >> we're going to have to decide. he's guilty of the most blatant contempt of congress. >> the president? >> cipollone. >> cipollone. >> i don't mean as a crime, but just the contempt dripping from the two letters, several letters he sent us. but that aside, he has said he's not going to come, so that's a very academic question.

the president was invited to submit testimony. he was invited to send his counsel. he has declined to do so. >> i want to show what some members, some democratic members who are in the sort of trump districts have been saying about what they want to see in this idea of the impeachment inquiry expanding. here's elaine lorea. i don't think we should throw the whole kitchen sink and overreach. ben mcadams, it should be left to voters in the 2020 election. tom malinowski, if we impeach the president for everything he has done that is impeachable, it would probably take us until 2025. >> tom is certainly correct in that. >> do you -- look, do you think it's important for you to write an article of impeachment that has democratic support? if you don't think it has majority support, you won't write the article? >> i'm not going to say that, but obviously, we want the house to pass the resolutions that we put forward. so that's one factor to consider, obviously. but again, we also have to consider the fact that we have to call the president for his

violations of the constitution and for posing the considerable risk he poses to the next election. >> i'm curious, though, the political divide that we have. this was something that concerned you 20 years ago. this is what you said 20 years ago. actually, 21 years ago almost to the day. to the month. impeaching a president, when you have not got a broad consensus of the american people, a broad agreement of almost everybody that this fellow has got to go because he's a clear and present danger to our liberty and constitution, without that, you cannot and should not impeach a president because to do so is to call into question the legitimacy of all of our political institutions. that has been the conundrum of this impeachment process. i understand that, hey, you guys believe you're following the rule of law, but you have a wall of partisan objection to this. does that matter? >> well, of course it matters. but the polling now shows it's 70% of the american people are convinced that the president has done something very wrong.

>> 70% aren't ready to oust him. >> well, we're not threw with the process, but 70% of the american people have said that they understand the president has done something very wrong. we also are faced with the very direct threat that this president put himself repeatedly above the interests of the country and poses a threat to the integrity of the next election. that's not something we were talking about 20 years ago. he poses a threat to the integrity of the next election if he's allowed to continue to do what he's doing. >> what's the unintended consequence of impeaching him and him being acquitted? how he will take acquittal? >> well, i don't know how he will take acquittal. i don't know if he'll be acquitted. the senators are going to have to decide, the house members first are going to have to decide and then the senate is going to have to decide. in the face of an abundance of uncontested evidence that the president poses a threat to the election, that he put his interests above those of the country. are they going to be patriots or partisans? >> if he's acquitted, do you

believe we'll have a fair election in 2020? >> i don't know. if the president, based on his past performance, he'll do everything he can to make it not a fair election. that is part of what gives us the urgency to proceed with this impeachment. >> chairman nadler, i'm going to leave it there. thank you for coming on and sharing your views. >> thank you. >> joining me from houston is republican senator ted cruz of texas, who sits on the senate judiciary committee. senator cruz, wemical back to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck, good to be with you. >> let me start with a larger sort of, i want to look at a forest here through all of these individual trees. and it was a busy week in this larger forest here for the third time, the white house enlisted help of one of your republican colleagues to block a bipartisan resolution that you have been pushing to recognize armenian genocide that took place in turkey. you called out the administration for failing to block the completion of the pipeline from russia to germany. 71 house republicans voted in a resolution that basically saying

it would be fine if russia came back into the g-7 if they did before they gave back crimea to ukraine. is it -- have you asked yourself why is it that this administration continues to publicly say tough things about russia but in their actions they don't seem to get tough on russia? >> listen, chuck, i don't think it's shocking that their foreign policy disagreements in our government. two of the things you mentioned right there, the armenian genocide resolution and the pipeline, we're likely to get done. we're likely to acknowledge the armenian genocide. i think we're also likely in the national defense authorization act to pass my bipartisan legislation stopping to norstream 2. it's going to stop a multibillion dollar pipeline that will cost putin billions of dollars. those questions illustrate part of the joke of what we're facing right now.

if you look at substance, the substantive policy we're implementing has been tougher on russia by orders of magnitude than barack obama ever was. and yet the media is playing along with this show trial the democrats are putting on in the house. >> wait a minute. do you believe that what the president did with ukraine somehow was tough on russia? or didn't the president by just introducing all of this delayed aid, play into the hands of russia? >> you know, chuck, substance matters. by any measure, the president's policy and this administration's policy has been tougher on russia and actually better for ukraine than obama's was. let me give you an example. you mentioned ukrainian aid. the donald trump administration gave lethal defensive aid to ukraine. javelin missiles to take out russian tanks. do you know what, throughout the obama administration, i repeatedly pressed president obama to give lethal aid to

ukraine. i traveled to yeah crane, went to the maiden square in kiev, and they needed lethal aid, but the obama administration sent teddy bears and mres. they wouldn't give weapons. at the end of the day, chairman nadler doesn't want to talk about any of that. he doesn't want to talk about the substance. >> senator -- >> at one point, he said there's no crime, and you know, he's right. there is no crime. >> no, he was talking about the president's lawyer, not about the president. but go ahead. >> all right. >> don't take him out of context on that. >> yesterday -- you're right. he said at first he said it was contempt, then he said, well, not really contempt. no crime. but let's be clear about the president. since this is impeachment of the president. yesterday, house democrats put out a 55-page report they called it a scholarly report, that purports to say you don't have to prove a crime. you don't have to prove a law was violated to impeach a president. what garbage, what nonsense. >> wait a minute -- senator, whoa, whoa, whoa.

senator, that is exactly why the impeachment was written into the constitution. that's exactly why the phrase high crimes and misdemeanors is in there, because they did it before they even wrote our laws, sir. before we had -- so how do you know -- i mean, you're saying that. that's exactly the opposite of what is true. >> chuck, actually, what the constitution says is you can impeach a president for treason, bribery, or high crimes and misdemeanors. it's specified. >> that's right, and go ahead. >> hold on, chuck. don't interrupt me. >> what is a misdemeanor? define misdemeanor. >> high crimes and misdemeanors was a term of art that the framers used. and you know, it's striking. in poker, there's something called a tell, when a player has a bad hand and they reveal it, it's a tell. what we saw last night was a tell from the house democrats. you know, just a few weeks ago, their talking point was bribery, bribery. they're now admitting they can't prove a crime, can't prove a law was violated, and here's why. any president, any administration is justified in

investigating corruption, and there was serious evidence of real corruption concerning hunter biden on the board of burisma, the largest natural gas company in ukraine. you know how much hunter biden was paid every month? $83,000. >> you know that number keeps changing. so far, there hasn't been a lot of confirmation on exactly all of that, and i know the number changes. but let me ask you this. >> because the house won't call him. hold on, chuck. hold on a second. >> all right. >> the media ought to care if there's actual corruption. >> and the media has covered it. >> do you know how much you make on the board of exxonmobil. you get $110,000 a year. >> the reason you know this information is the media reported. >> he's making ten times as much as a board member of exxonmobil. >> what i don't understand is why do you believe if an american is committing corruption, we should ask a foreign government to announce an investigation? is that appropriate or do you go to american authorities? >> so i believe any president,

any justice sd apartment, has the authority to investigate krungz. in this case, there was serious evidence on the face of corruption. the reason hunter biden got that position is because his daddy was vice president of the united states. >> you believe ukraine meddled? do you believe -- do you believe ukraine meddled in the american election in 2016? >> i do. and i think there's considerable evidence. >> you do? you do? >> and chuck, let me say -- >> you know, senator, this sort of strikes me as odd. because you went through a primary campaign with this president. he launched a birtherism campaign against you, went after your faith, threatened to, quote, spill the beans about your wife about something. he pushed a national enquirer story which we now know he had a real relationship with the editors. >> i appreciate you dragging up all that garbage. >> let me ask you this. is it not possible that this president is capable of creating a false narrative about somebody in order to help him

politically? >> except that's not what happened. the president released the transcript of the phone call. you can read what was said on the phone call. >> and the bidens. and you yourself thought the biden part was troubling. >> chuck, let me point out a game that the media is playing. you know, a question that you have asked a number of people. you have said to senators sort of aghast, do you believe that ukraine and not russia interfered in the election? now, that in a court of law would be struck as a misleading question. of course, russia interfered in our election. nobody looking at the evidence disputes that. >> the president of the united states does. >> look, on the evidence, russia clearly interfered in our election. but here's the game the media is playing, because russia interfered, the media pretends nobody else did. ukraine blatantly interfered in our election. the sitting ambassador from ukraine wrote an op-ed blasting donald trump during the election season. >> you know why?

what diz donald trump as a candidate say about ukraine and crimea during the election that might have inspired the ambassador. >> they wanted hillary clinton to get elected. >> they wrote an op-ed. that's the difference, what you're saying is you're saying a pick pocket, which essentially is a hill op-ed, compared to bernie madoff and vladimir putin. you're trying to make -- you're trying to make them both seem equal. i don't understand that. >> chuck, i understand that you want to dismiss ukrainian interference because, a, they were trying to get hillary clinton elected which is what the vast majority of the media wanted anyway. and b, it's inconvenient for the narrative. it's hysterical two years ago, there was article after article after article in the mainstream media about ukrainian interference in the elections, but now, the democrats have no evidence of a crime, no evidence of violating the law, and so suddenly, ukrainian interference is treated as the media clutches their pearls, oh, my goodness,

you can't say that. last week, chuck, you called senator john kennedy basically a stooge for putin. >> i did not. don't basically -- senator -- >> ridiculous. >> are you concerned -- >> acting like they work for adam schiff. >> so did you get the briefing from the intel community that said the russian intelligence services are trying to actively use this ukraine story to frame ukraine? for the interference in 2016. >> i have been in multiple briefings. i have been in multiple brief g briefings year after year about foreign interference in our elections. russia has try, china, north korea, ukraine has tried to interfere in our elections. this is not new. 20 scene is not the first year they did it and they're going to keep trying. we need to be strong in dealing with it, but the media needs to actually report facts. this is a kangaroo court in the house. they're going to impeach, not because they have the evidence but because they hate the election and want to do the

election, but it's going to go to the senate, going to go nowhere. i think the american people know this is a waste of time and democrats putting on a circus. >> senator ted cruz, republican from texas. always good to go back and forth with you. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your views. >> when we come back, where impeachment goes from here. does anybody really know? the panel is next. ers need ener. and demand for it is expected to grow. so chevron's finding more homegrown energy, more precisely. digitizing the way we work with advanced data analytics helping us develop more productive wells. and we're exploring ways to use renewable energy in our operations. doin' more... ...with less. more data and precision... to help meet growing demand. that's going to get a lot of likes. chevron. innovating to meet the energy demands of today and tomorrow. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon.

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welcome back. panel is here, former republican congressman carlos curbelo of florida. stephanie cutter. kristen welker, and robert costa. and moderator of washington week on pbs. well, we have a little bit of a preview of the house case and the senate defense just now. the democrats are running into a brick wall. >> yeah. >> okay, that was -- it is what it is. it seems as if the question is, what is everybody going to look like on the other side. >> that's the question, and there seems to right now be a

push to rush this to the senate. the democrats are signaling they want to be finished with the articles of impeachment by the time they take their next recess. i spoke to sources over the weekend who said the senate wants to have this wrapped up within two weeks. what's interesting is i also talked to some democrats who say they think nancy pelosi should hold the articles of impeachment, not send them to the senate until the witnesses come and testify. >> mulvaney, bolton, those guys. >> exactly, depriving the senate to right to hold a trial, the right to acquit the president. partisan warfare. >> i have been skepical would we ever see a trial because no one is sure how this works out. >> there will likely be a trial. i have been hanging out at the senate all week and senate republicans are preparing. that's why mcconnell has blocked off everything in january. the question now is what do the 2020 republicans up for re-election do. they're going to have to pressure majority leader mcconnell or not in terms of the rules and how this plays out. so far, most of the discussions about a five to six-week trial,

but senator rand paul and others have told me that if this trial is moving in a direction away from the president, if they don't like the way it's unfolding, they may call to dismiss the trial and hold a vote. that could be the test for mcconnell. >> stephanie, i want to ask you a more blatant campaign strategy question about this. i want to show you this graphic. these are ads about impeachment just this week. here are the number of ads that republican affiliated groups have aired. 4,235, and the number of ads democrats have aired making the case for impeachment, one. i know the democrats didn't want to look like they were politicizing this, but we're at this public opinion paralysis arguably because this hasn't been organic. republicans have done a paid media campaign and it's at least worked to get it where we are. >> i'm not sure, chuck, that those ads have split the country. this country has been split for a long time on impeachment. there is a slight majority that do believe that at least impeachment proceedings should proceed. and many who believe that he should be removed from office.

a lot of those ads when you dig down into it are acquisition ads of people trying to build their own lists and things like that. and i think the difference is democrats are running ads but they're running ads on things like getting prescription drugs done, or reforming the health care system. >> isn't that part of the problem? look, this is a giant effort that's going on. you're trying to say the president of the united states -- shouldn't you all be on one line? >> no, because there's actually, you have seen this with speaker pelosi this week and the week before. this is a somber, serious moment. this is about the impeachment of the president of the united states. because the president of the united states, from the evidence that we have seen, and the hearings thus far, and we'll see what comes out in the articles this week, you know, actively solicited foreign interference to secure his own election, and it wasn't the first time he did it. it's about a check on that abuse of power and breaking the public trust. that's serious. that's not something you put on facebook ads to build your own

political list. that's something that you want a very straight process through. and democrats will get credit for that. there is time to build a public case. it's not going to take much convincing the president is guilty of this. >> what's going on in your old district? >> i think nancy pelosi has one more chance to go off script. we know what the script looks like. democrats impeach in the house, republicans refuse to convict in the senate. the divisions in the country are hardened and the next election probably becomes in large part about impeachment. or nancy pelosi can bring this to the brink and say, you know what? we're so close to the election that we're going to trust the american people to make this decision. >> what about this third idea? the third idea over here? >> we're going to do something different, something unexpected, something that rather than making a point can make a difference in the country, can scramble our politics. a message the american people, maybe a lot of you don't trust the government, but we're going to trust you to try to help fix this republic. i think our nation is due for

that kind of moment. >> stephanie, i'm curious, what kristen is reporting, this third option of waiting. how real is that in your mind? >> i think there is concern that if they move to the senate too quickly, and mcconnell doesn't let new evidence be considered because there is a real chance that new evidence will come out, there's active investigation. the court is going to rule on mcgahn. that will have an impact on bolton. there could be some administration witnesses that will be compelled to testify. that's all on the table. if mcconnell sets rules that doesn't allow new evidence to be considered, then -- >> there's another wild card. rudy giuliani. i mean, he is blatantly thumbing his nose at the justice department, sdny. he's got associated under indictment. he may or may not be a direct target of an investigation. what is hedoing? >> he's been over in ukraine. he's sending a signal to democrats, and republicans on hill, some are wary but they have only been wary privately. they think the president is going to conduct a political war

in the next five weeks making his own case on ukraine and corruption. we heard echoes of it in senator cruz's interview with you. the gop is embracing the idea of ukrainian interference, despite testimony by u.s. officials. >> testimony that senator ted cruz illicited this week for what it's worth. >> you nailed it, chuck. they're equating op-ed articles and political opinions with interference. >> rudy giuliani is basically flouting the entire process, thumbing his nose, dangling the possibility that he might be releasing more information, and in text messages i said are you in fact going to turn over some type of information to congress and attorney general bill barr, as the president signaled he might do. he said he hasn't made any determination about that. privately, as robert points out, you have some republicans who are a little uncomfortable and wondering where is all this going to go? >> i think even matt gaetz expressed going i don't know what rudy is sup to. >> beyond giuliani, we have a

justice department ig report, and barr's own report coming out. a lot of new information is coming out. >> kristen, quickly before we go, the president went really quickly and basically defending saudi arabia before we know anything here. already, the president basically is on an island when it comes to saudi arabia these days. it's one of the few places where i think he hasn't been able to convince more republicans to come over. >> you have the shooting at the naval air base in pensacola, and you have president trump tweeting out essentially that he got that phone call from the leader of saudi arabia apologizing. and it underscores how complicated his relationship is, the united states' relationship is with saudi arabia. so far, they have not called that terrorism, but based on my conversations, all signs are pointing in that direction. >> candidate trump, what would candidate trump have tweeted? >> when we come back, the growing anger in america and in american politics.

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welcome back. in just the past week, we have seen more signs and scenes of the growing anger in american politics. >> you said i set up my son to work in an oil company. isn't that what you said? get your words straight, jack. >> people are having a crisis.

>> sir. >>. >> no, no, no. >> we also saw the costa comments and angry stares between democrats and republicans during the house intelligence committee impeachment hearings over the last month. it's all been discouraging enough for one of the intel democrats who became a familiar face to many, denny heck of washington state, who announced his retirement this week. writing, the countless hours i have spent in the investigation of russian election interference and the impeachment inquiry have rendered my soul weary. denny heck joins me now. welcome to "meet the press." that's something else there, rendered my soul weary. you have been an active member of the political class, shall we say, for 40 years. this sounded like a statement of somebody who felt defeated. is that how this feels these days? >> not so defeated, but my soul is weary, chuck. i will go to my grave not understanding how some of my colleagues could simply turn the

other way and overlook the president's behavior and his misdeeds, who would overlook his unrelecting attack on the free press, overlook his kind of vicious character assassinations, sometimessometi gratuitously, in the case of ambassador yovanovitch. >> i maedz you have tried to strike up this conversation with many members, particularly those on the other side of the aisle. how many relationships realistically are there now across party lines. >> there's still a good number because we live in a pluralistic society, so if we're going to get anything done, we have to figure out how to make principled compromises. there are a growing number on both sides of the aisle's bases who don't believe in compromise. even principled compromise. >> i loved how you put it in your statement. i want to put that up. you said success seems to be measured by how many twitter

followers one has, which are largely gained by saying increasingly outrageous things. the more personal the better. there are simply too many hibber bolic adjectives and too few nouns. civility is out, compromise is out. all or nothing is in. many of us couldn't have written it better. >> i'll take that as a compliment and thank you. lots of people are voting with their feet, chuck. the truth of the matter i think especially on the other side of the aisle, look, the facts are the facts. three times as many republicans are not running for re-election who aren't seeking higher office this time as democrats. it was almost exactly the same two years ago. this is not their republican party. this is trump's republican party, and they're voting with their feet. they won't say it publicly because they're afraid of the backlash. >> one of my frustrations when i do these interviews with folks who am i surprised are leaving and make a statement that feels as if it needed to be said, and at the same time, so then don't leave. why leave? if you're trying to bring more civility, you seem to be one of

the more civil ones. you seem to be somebody who isn't trying to do what you said here, get twitter followers, attack your folks. you reall the more of the civil folks who leave, you know who replaces them. >> chuck, i have run my race. i have fought the good fight. and i have kept the faith. and i am tired. look, i'm a west coaster, chuck. i commute 150,000 miles per year because my wife paula, she who must be obeyed, has stayed in olympia. we're newlyweds, we have only been married 44 years and she occasionally has moments where she would like me home. >> i get that on the personal lev. are you concerned though, what we're going to see, look, we invited a few of these republicans who have actually gone on the record about their weariness of being in here, to see if they would also have this conversation. some of them didn't want to do that. but they're going to get replaced by more partisan and more caustic members likely. >> i actually have hope, chuck. it's not a given, as dr. martin

luther king said, change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitably, but we have been treelted to the worst of it late. as we sit here, the worst of it, but there has also been the best of it. think about the courageous public servants who put their reputations and jobs at risk and were willing to speak truth to power. think about the job the media has done in steadfastly bringing this story into the living rooms of america, and with great discipline and self integrity, refused to out the whistleblower, and i think about all the people who came up to me on the floor this week, democrats and republicans. liberal and conservative, and said the usual very nice things. >> after you said you're leaving, though. >> yes. >> that's the frustrating aspect. >> here's what's clear. people don't want it to be this way. they really don't. it hasn't changed it yet. >> i was going to say, because there's no doubt if there were a secret ballot about this, everybody in congress would say this isn't working. we've got to -- so you have been in a state legislature. how do we get out of this?

is it just trump? you have said it's not, but is there -- is it because of him that we can't try to get out of this now? >> i think it starts with the occupant of the white house. and whomever replaces him, frankly, regardless of which political party or what their philosophy is, needs to bring a greater sense of decency and a greater loyalty to truth, but that's letting the rest of us off the hook, chuck. that's important to note. there was a recent survey that showed that less than a third of american adults can identify the three branches of the federal government. look, benjamin franklin warned about about the peril of keeping this republic. we have all got to double down in our commitment to the rule of law and free, fair, and open elections and a commitment to freedom of press and speech and religion and assembly. >> if president trump gets a second term, what do you think the impact is going to be on congress? >> that is a nightmare scenario in my mind. >> why? >> because of the absence of a commitment to decency or truth

on his part that has been amply demp straighted in his three years in office, because of herefusal to recognize even the most basic presepseptembers of constitutional -- >> do you have advice for a young person getting into politics and looks at this and sewhy should i risk character assassination of myself to run for office? >> america is worth fighting for. >> there you go. denny heck, democrat from washington state. tenth district. you're founding congressman of the tenth district. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> you're welcome. >> when we come back, trading blazes. while democrats and republicans have switched sides when it comes to seeing russia as a threat. a threat 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband-- --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster than today's network in new york city.

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welcome back. data download time. as democrats and republicans argue about whether or not impeachment has anything or everything to do with russia, the views each party has of the long time adversary have moved in different directions. back in february of 2015, more democrats held a favorable view of russia than republicans did. just 19%. by february of 2019, those numbers had reversed, with only

17% of democrats holding a favorable view of russia compared with 30% of republicans. also back in 2015, there wasn't a lot of difference between democrats and republicans when it came to the issue of viewing russia as a, quote, critical threat. 45% of democrats said so, 52% of republicans. not much difference. but now, a full 64% of democrats call russia a critical threat. more than 20 points higher than the republican number. so what's happening here? democrats see that a president they loathe has found an ally in russia. republicans, meanwhile, dismiss that notion and tell gallup they're less concerned with russia than they are with china. that said, it's not too surprising that the pew research center found only 15% of democrats are confident the trump administration is making serious efforts to prevent russia from influencing the 2020 election. while 81% of republicans say the administration is doing enough. that's a 66-point gap. there's no reason those numbers will get any less partisan in an election year.

especially with the senate poised to take up ukraine, russia, and election interference in a possible impeachment hearing in the new year. >> when we come back, end game and a democratic race that seems more unsettled than ever. cologuard: colon cancer screening for people 50 and older at average risk. i've heard a lot of excuses to avoid screening for colon cancer. i'm not worried. it doesn't run in my family. i can do it next year. no rush. cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers. you just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab.

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pete buttigieg and elizabeth warren have decided each other is in their way. elizabeth warren has not name-checked many candidates on the trail in the democratic primary side now. but she is with mayor pete on fundraisers. he is pushing back when it comes to her tax returns. let me play an example from yesterday. >> well, i certainly think it would be a good idea for her to release tax returns, as i have, covering your entire career in the private sector. >> it is time for everyone in this campaign including the mayor to open up those closed-door fundraisers and let the press come in. it's time to disclose who the bundlers are and who's getting special access. >> you know, it's interesting, both elizabeth warren and pete buttigieg seem to be nervous about a little something. elizabeth warren doesn't want to remind people who she did as a private attorney. >> right. >> pete buttigieg maybe isn't ready to say what -- doesn't want to own everything mckenzie has done over the years and they are treading very lightly on here.

is this a good idea? >> well, i think elizabeth warren doesn't want to be debating pete buttigieg over medicare for all anymore. so she is trying to change the topic and go after his lack of transparency on fundraising or lack of transparency on mckinsey records. the problem is she's not exactly pure either. this is probably a net/net and probably what primary voters won't be talking about. >> what did you make of the joe biden move this week? and is it something that gave you, just you thought, okay, he can take trump on? or what was that about? >> well, i think it was good for him because it called attention to joe biden. he's been kind of a flat character for a lot of this campaign. but it was, again, awkward. >> it was strange. and for a lot of people that kind of irks them. and by the way it's not just elizabeth warren who is paying attention to him now. i think national review put him on the front page. of course not a flattering piece but i think some conservatives are worried about a candidate who has the coalition building of joe biden but is polished and

doesn't say weird things. >> chuck, i spoke to one democratic stratjust about that joe biden moment who said, yes, he showed passion, he showed anger, he showed he can be tough and he gets to do that exactly once. he's got to find a way to talk about this ukraine matter which is not going away. >> it was one thing that surprised me, robert costa. he doesn't have one line yet or a -- he seems not -- he doesn't have a comfortable dismiss line yet on this question. >> he has a theme though. economic populism senator warren, it is powerful with buttigieg. biden seasoned hand, his ad this week highlighted the case he is making to voters. those are the three emerging arguments in this democratic race. others of course are still in the contest and have a role to play in making their own arguments. but those are the three dividing lines. >> one other candidate made news this week. it was michael bloomberg. and, boy, did he have a message

to his own journalists who were complaining about the rules that he is trying to put on journalists covering the campaign. let me play a byte of it. >> even your own news reporters have complained. they think it's unfair that they are not allowed to investigate other democratic candidates because their boss is in the race. >> you just have to learn to live with some things. they get a paycheck. but with your paycheck comes some restrictions and responsibilities. >> how is it that michael bloomberg is falling into a trap? i mean, donald trump didn't dissuade himself from this business. this seems lying an unforced error. >> there has to be a better way to handle this than telling an entire news organization that they can't cover certain things because he is now in the race and telling them to get over it because he pays them. >> he needs to read the first amendment. >> and also understand what we've gone through in the trump years in terms of suppression of the media. >> i was in philadelphia yesterday talking to suburban voters. they want to hear more. he's going to get a hearing. >> but this issue is going to

stick with him. he's got to figure out the bloomberg news issue and not leave it where it is right now. >> and some advice, unsolicited for democrats, acting like trump is not the path to victory. >> came across a little arrogant. >> joe biden has to learn that, and no one is going to be a tougher boss than trump. i think bloomberg has to learn that too. >> i'm going to shift the conversation. there was an op-ed in the last 24 hours, guys, from katie hill, the now former congresswoman from california. she went through this where she had to resign due to explicit photos and an awkward relationship and she described suicidal moments and suicidal tendencies. she poured it out all there. what did you take away from it? >> it was heartbreaking. >> it was enraging to read it as a woman. and i think that a couple of things stood out to me. one, she talked about the

strength it required for her to leave her husband, her relationship. that she describes as being toxic. and when she made that decision she was further abused. and i think it's a reminder that as a society we have to create a safe space for women to be able to leave relationships that are toxic. and it underscores how toxic our politics has become. she said that nancy pelosi urged her not to step down. >> i was 34 years old when i got elected to congress. and what i can tell you, chuck, is that public life, not just politics, public life is very difficult in our country these days and it's because our society is sick. and that's why as our leaders handle impeachment and all these big issues, i think what they should keep at the forefront is healing. this country needs healing. >> we have a vengeful culture. >> we do. and particularly if it's being driven by an ex-husband seeking revenge. my takeaway from reading that article is i hope it's not the last time we hear from her. i hope she finds a way to stay in public life.

>> that was a powerful voice this morning. i encourage everybody to please read it. that's all for today. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." ♪ before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. ♪'cause no matter how far away for you roam.♪ys.♪

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♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm david gura. and tonight democrats measure twice to cut once as they decide how broad to make their articles of impeachment. after a lackluster performance on wednesday, they seek to put an exclamation point on president trump. and separation sunday. democrats running for president focus on each others' business ties as voters hope they will increasingly get down to the business of beating president trump. and as pete buttigieg