special edition of fall back. >> all right. i had fun. did you have fun? >> i did. >> see you tomorrow. >> we did have fun and we needed that. let me also show you one more thing you might want to see the rockefeller christmas tree. we wish you a happy holidays to you and yours. don't go anywhere. i'm going to be on the "last word" tonight filling in for lawrence at 10:00, and right now it's "hardball" with chris matthews. impeachment. our greatest liberty. let's play hardball. good evening i'm chris matthews from washington. in just the fourth time in history the house committee today passed articles of impeachment against an american president. the judiciary committee has now triggered the greatest constitutional check a president

can face. advancing two articles against president trump for abuse of power and obstruction of congress. >> the question now is on article one of the resolution impeaching president dawn md j. trump for abusing his powers. the clerk will-call the roll. >> mr. chairman, there are 23 ayes and 17 nos. >> the question now is on article 2 of the resolution. impeaching president donald j. trump for obstructing congress. >> mr. chairman there's 32 aye is and 32 nos. >> it paves the way for the full vote next week likely wednesday to make president trump the third president to be impeached. this afternoon appearing alongside the president of

paraquay president trump blasted the committee. >> it's a witch hunt, it's a sham, it's a hoax. nothing was done wrong. zero was done wrong. i watched these democrats on the committee make fools out of themselves, absolute fools out of themselves. to use the power of impeachment on this nonsense is an embarrassment to this country. >> well, the president went onto argue that impeachment is helping him politically. but "the new york times" reports that behind the scenes, quote, he nurses resentment over the red mark about to be tattooed on his page in the history books as only the third president in american history to be impeached. no matter what some of us critics say advisers say he does not generally want to be impeached viewing it as a personal humiliation, adding even in private he expresses no blame and no regret, but he rails against the enemies he

sees all around him. meanwhile impeachment continues to move forward and the house rules committee announced a meeting for next tuesday setting the terms for the debate before the full house of representatives votes. for more i'm joined by national political reporter jonathan allen, paul butler, victoria nurse, she was chief counsel to vice president joe biden 2015 to 2016. i guess the question is about the historic nature of what happened today and whether it will withstand the terrors of history. will it look as good 20, 30 years from now, these articles of impeachment? >> well, i think that history -- one of the questions history will have is all of the abuses and crimes for which donald trump was not impeached, and i also think the verdict will depend in large part about what happens in the senate.

you know, is the senate going to have a full and fair trial? is it going to be a sham trial? mitch mcconnell's comments certainly suggests it is in fact rigged. this is something i think the democrats moving ahead quickly need to keep in mind. and chris, just remember they don't have to immediately message this over to the united states senate. and in fact i think in light of mitch mcconnell's basically his pledge or his, you know, admission he intends to coordinate with the white house, i think the democrats might want to say that you know what, until we have 51 senators who are willing to commit to not go along with mitch mcconnell's rigging plans, maybe we'll sit on this and continue the investigation because this is an going crime scene. >> how much do you want to bet on that? >> i don't know. i'm just trying to encourage -- >> are you seriously betting that the speaker of the house will not send the articles of impeachment over to the senate?

you want to bet on that? >> no, i would not want to bet on that. >> why did you say it? >> because i think it's something to think about. i think what mitch mcconnell said yesterday was extraordinary, and i think we need to pause and recognize this is historic moment. it is a grave constitutional requirement, and what mitch mcconnell is essentially saying is i'm going to turn this into a joke, and i think the democrats needs to be very concerned if in fact this does take place. will donald trump be emboldened and empowered to be even more abusive if he thinks he is exonerated? because once you've taken your shot and you have failed to get the shot, trump is going to feel absolutely unaccountable knowing there will be no consequences, and i think democrats need to think through that plan b. >> the reason i challenged you so so directly is i watched pelosi the last several months. she's acted very conservatively and cautiously. if she did something like that, it would be walking out on the

plank and letting republicans decide how they're going to portray that and it'd be probably as a refusal to carry out her duty. i really look at it that way. let me go back to john on another question, and this is the question which is the cutter. will this affect the 2020 election, what happened today, when he will be called out next year, next week. it is all likely to going happen by a partisan vote, what effect would that happen on the election next year, the impeachment of donald trump? >> i think there are two things likely to happen. number one, he gets the aggrievement, he gets what he always like to do which is paint himself as a victim and say he was exonerated by the senate. we've heard that before. he's going to add that to the arsenal of the democrat and bureaucratic state. >> every mob leader that walks

out on the courthouse steps after being acquitted says he was exonerated, not just that he beat the judge, he's exonerated, he's innocent. >> but the new piece on this, chris, the majority on the house of representatives would have impeached him. when you line it up against what andrew johnson did, what richard nixon did, there is no comparison. >> back to the question of paul, which i know this is speculative, will this carry the history of the weight against the president? >> certainly the act of impeachment by the house will. history will understand that the house had no choice given the president's bad acts and corruption. the senate is a different question. if the senate fails to remove the president from office, that will go down as a day that our democracy took a giant step backwards. mr. trump, if he's exonerated, he's not a good follower of the

rule of law, but he's a quick study with what he can get away with. we know that the day after mueller testified before congress and trump understood there wouldn't be any legal consequences for his exploits in russia, the day after trump picks up the phone, calls the president of ukraine, i need you to do us a favor, though. so the day after the senate fails to remove the president from office, what's to stop him from calling russia and china? i've got a tough election coming up, how can you help us? >> let me go to victoria. you know, when nixon was caught he had shame and he said i gave them the sword. i gave them a sword and they thrust it in with relish. he admitted he gave them because of his behavior in trying to cover up the watergate break in, he gave his political rivals a chance to kill him politically, and they did. >> this is what's so extraordinary about this president. he does not seem to have the same level of shaming that

accompanies other republicans. >> will that sachb him, shamelessness? >> no, i don't think it is going to save him. he could have had this done in a minute if he'd acted like ronald reagan who had his own investigation and then buried it. there are lots of ways you can handle these scandals and he has relished the fact he is going to put his thumb in the nose of all our democratic processes. there are rule of law republicans out there who understand this is about our election system and this is about -- >> who's going to challenge him on the floor after we come back from the holidays? which republican senator is going to do it as you just said? >> mitt romney. >> you expect that? >> i hope so. >> i do wonder about these speculations mean anything. we keep hoping for the republicans to do something interesting, and they're all in line. murkowski i could see showing some guts. at least one i think has guts. >> one thing you don't have to

speculate is that 9 million or so americans voted for house democrats in the mid-term elections. they voted to put this check on donald trump. they understood he might be impeached for some of his activity, and this is the result. and when they vote for this on the house floor next time, that is majority of the american people, the people representing a majority -- republicans like to talk about coastal elites. a majority of the representatives of the american people are going to impeach him and recommend to the senate he be removed from office and not allowed to hold the office of public trust again. that is not a small thing. we see the reporting he feels humiliated by this. people don't feel humiliated if they feel they got railroaded. >> however the abuse of congress article is how the president rejects the idea he should be checked by congress. and again, if he is not removed from office the message will be that's okay, and he does not have to funnel the constitution

and be limited. >> this guy's not going to apologize, he's not going to confess. this guy says i'm right and you guys screwed me, that's his whole thing, aggrievement. >> and the important point here is like what is a post-impeachment donald trump is going to be like, what will his behavior be? and i guess my main point if in fact you believe as i do that donald trump is an existential threat we ought to treat him like that, and democrats need to treat him like that. don't just check the box because this is going to go on long after there's that vote. and bottom line i think they need to push back hard against the argument that failure to convict means he's exonerated. it just means he is not going to be removed. the one thing of hope i think we need to hold out a little bit of hope it for is maybe some of

those senators like murkowski, collins, cory gardener and jody will stand up and say we're not going to provide you the votes to rig this trial to turn it into a circus. if they would at least commit a to having an open honest search for the truth i think that would be at least a short-term win, and i think there'd be a lot of pressure on them right now to say are you going along with what mitch mcconnell is threatening to do? >> let's go around the table here. again it's speculation and it's fair enough. let's take a look at this. first of all, how many democrats do you think will vote to not impeach next wednesday? charlie in the house. >> fewer than six. >> i'm with charlie. >> i agree. >> how many are likely to vote with democrats in voting to convict and remove in the u.s. senate? >> one maybe. >> charlie, how many do you

think? >> i think one, maybe two. >> zero. >> two. >> i think that's about right. that averages out to about one, i would say. we're all -- i know we're all looking at mitt romney. i'm looking at murkowski because she had the guts to take on a primary challenger -- i mean lose the challenge, come back and win the general election. that says bulletproof to me. i think that woman has guts. mitt, he likes to flirt with greatness. he never gets there. meanwhile yesterday's marathon debate over articles of impeachment came as republicans tried to minimize the president's misconduct. all of them, by the way, failed -- strike the last word, didn't go any further thanimate thatch their antics were met with resistance by their colleagues across the aisle. the decision to leave the vote until this morning for

republicans left the republicm s infuriated. >> you just blow up schedules for everyone. you chose not to consult the ranking member on a schedule issuing of this magnitude. >> so typical. >> this is kangaroo court we're talking about. >> stalin-esque. >> not even consult. >> john, the sis politics of aggrievement. we're getting screwed, we've been robbed. it's always this. we're the white working guy and we've been screwed by the illegal immigrants, the rich liberals and media. everybody's out to get us. this was a personal demonstration to me.

>> tell the guy in his district who's working that late at night. >> he said it was stalin-esque. >> it's absurd. >> anything think it worked? >> charlie, does anybody give a darn how late they work or what time they get up in the morning? i'm asking. >> no, and i don't think it's stalin-esque to make you come in on a friday morning, maybe it is in congress these days. imagine today they had a vote at midnight, this would have become the talking point, you know, the midnight vote to impeach the president. and i think jerry nadler understood that. so he did was let's do it in broad daylight where the american people can see it, and again this is not even a footnote. >> they met in basements, it was partisan. they met in dark basements and it was all partisan and they ended up voting at midnight.

anyway, thank you. up next, looking ahead to the impeachment trial of president trump. mitch mcconnell is one of the hundred senate jurors so-called, but if this were an actual criminal trial he admits he'll do whatever trump and his lawyers tell him to do. here he goes. >> everything i do during this i'm coordinating with the white house counsel. there will be no difference between the president's position and our position. >> and rudy giuliani -- there he is. he's back. he's back from ukraine from his latest adventure where he spent the last week digging for political dirt. he reportedly told the president, quote, has more than you can imagine. that's perfect for trump. we've got much more to get to tonight. thank you. stay with us. e to get to tonight. thank you. stay with us cover almost anythi. even a "three-ring fender bender." (clown 1) sorry about that...

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welcome back to "hardball." as the house inches closer to impeaching president trump next week, the house prepares for a trial. mitch mcconnell told fox news there's no daylight between the republican jurors, that's the republican senators and the defendant, that would be the president. >> we'll be working through this process hopefully in a fairly short period of time in total coordination with the white house counsel's office and the people who are representing the president in the well of the senate. everything i do during this, i'm coordinating with the white house counsel. there'll be no difference between the president's position and our position as to how to handle this. there's no chance the president's going to be removed from office. my hope is that there won't be a single republican who votes for either of these articles of impeachment. >> the white house counsel pat cipollone who was expected to defend trump in the senate trial was seen leaving mcconnell's

office just yesterday. isn't that cute? ahead of the trial which has not been scheduled yet republicans are debating how long they want it to last and who they want to hear from. republicans plan could be, would be to call no witnesses and simply allow house democrats and the president's attorneys to make their case before the public, and after that the senate would consider calling people either for live testimony or closed door depositions probably in committee. earlier today when asked if he had a preference, president trump provided no clear answer. >> i'll do whatever i want. look, we did nothing wrong so i'll do long or short. i heard mitch, i've heard lindsey. i think they are much in agreement on some concept. i wouldn't mind a long process because i'd like to see the whistle-blower who's a fraud. >> for more i'm joined by former congressman barnie frank, democrat from massachusetts, and ruth, author of the bring new

book, supreme ambition, bret kavanaugh and the concerted take over. i like to say that liberals, friends of mine 7-2. this guy gets back in, 7-2, supreme court. >> the president likes to say i'll get five. he wants to have five nominees. >> the president is supposed to be tried by the sept yet the leader of the senate who calls the majority under his hoof is acting like he's thrown it already, thrown the trial. >> no question, there's an arrogance there. by the way, when the clinton impeachment came, there was not that degree of coordination. who ultimately voted not to convict but was a man who understood the institutional and constitutional requirements for independence. i remember one case where the white house had a proposal for who is going to be presenting their case and overruled it. and by the way the democrats in the house totally contrary to the republicans in the house who

have been a 100% supportive of whatever trump says or does, in committee we voted to censure him. the republicans were afraid that censure would pass instead of impeachment in the house and manipulated the rules and defied the rules not to allow it to come up. so, no, there was -- yes, most democrats were skeptical. in the end no democrat voted for the impeachment, but theyermented the constitutional separation of powers, and the white house was not dictating. >> i didn't know this, but there's an oath u.s. senators must take as they go into the trial where they have to solemnly swear that in all things that pertain to the trial and are now pending.

>> is he running from or not running the show, mitch mcconnell? >> it's interesting he said that because he knows what's coming, and he know his oath is to do impartial justice, and he know he's going to get some criticism for what he said, but he also knows he has a constituency of one and a constituency of his base he needs to satisfy. >> he's on trial. >> yeah, trump's on trial, but trump's voters can put mcconnell on trial. he's the most unpopular senator. he has other senators to worry about. he wants to signal that he's in line with this guy. but it's yet another situation where the senate is not doing its -- you know, it's constitutional role. >> why is isn't the president kissing up to the senators? he needs the votes to save himself from impeachment. why are they acting like they're the supplicants here to him?

>> because of the voters? but the voters were no bargain either sometimes, and what you have is the people who vote in republican primaries demand slavish obedience to donald trump. and there's no question if a senator did a secret ballot would be much more likely to vote no, a vote to convict, but they're all afraid of losing their primary seats. think of jeff flake, you think of bob corker. the republican electorate, and what happens is the dynamic as the republicans get harder and harder in this far right trump fealty, some people leave the republican party. so that means the remainder is this hard core. frankly, i think the way this is going to play out the republican senators are now making the toughest choice they can make between making sure you can get

me nominated between winning in november. you mentioned many of them who are very much in that bind, and i will tell you i have a slogan that i am suggesting to the democratic candidates for the senate all over the country, you don't have to live in kentucky to vote against mitch mcconnell. he doesn't get to be majority leader unless cory gardener and susan collins and all those are re-elected. >> senator lindsey graham of south carolina who tried to house's case against bill clinton back in 1998, he called today's historic vote in the house on the impeachment articles, quote, a sad ridiculous sham in the united states house of representatives. this needs to come to a quick end. in 1998 as a congressman from south carolina he had a different point of view. >> please give us a chance, the american people, to document what the president did, actually did.

i know what people want to do with this case. i know they want to get it over. i know many of them don't want the president to be impeached, but i've got a duty far greater than just getting to the next election. some house members have said i will not vote for an impeachment. let me tell you, please don't say that until you understand what you're voting on. member of the senate have said i understand everything there is about this case, and i won't vote to impeach the president. please allow the facts to do the talking. don't decide the case before the case is in. >> what do you make of this guy right now? >> very little. i think lindsey, he's been a master of the fake. he was going to do this, and he was going to do that, and he never does. he comes out on the right wing side every time. i have proposed -- i've asked the kennedy library people whether they have a procedure for rescinding the profile in

courage award. they don't. yes, you can say there's a duty to igno to politics here, but if you want the question to be decided wholly without political influence, don't ask 535 politicians to make it. >> thank you so much. the name of your book is "supreme ambition" all about where brett kavanaugh came from and why. up next rudy giuliani picked an auspicious day to drop by. there he is, i love this walk with his son there, walking across to the west wing. what is up to with the president? probably the same thing mitch mcconnell is up to with cipollone. was he briefing officials on his recent dirt digging in ukraine as he said he would? he reportedly told the president this mission, quote, turned out more than you can imagine. of course that's rudy's account. you're watching "hardball." cou. u're watching "hardball.

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welcome back to "hardball." just minutes before the house judiciary committee held its historic impeachment vote this morning, president trump's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani was seen entering the white house accompanied by his son andrew who works for the administration. giuliani confirmed to nbc he met with the president today. and the last time we heard from rudy he was in ukraine of course this week gathering evidence to defend as he said, my client.

that would be the president. giuliani described his trip to "the wall street journal" as just having fun and then he added upon his return on saturday the president called him as his plane was still taxing down the runway. what'd you get he said mr. trump asked, quote, more than you can imagine he said he replied. i'm joined right now by ken dilanian. rudy, he's paying for all these trips out of something, he travels first class. he's either in general aviation or first class. he's in five-star hotels. bopping around everywhere. he's paying for it? what's he actually delivering? >> there's not much mystery what happened with ukraine, but there's a lot of questions what is rudy up to. well, he's under criminal investigation. we're not exactly sure what the scope of that investigation is but it's serious. there's been reports about subpoenas and money laundering. he's trapsing through ukraine.

massive conflicts of interests, the kind of stuff obama never allowed. and who's paying the bills is a great question right now. there's a transaction where a friend of rudy's, a trump supporter paid and that money went to rudy. there's no evidence that company ever did anything, so that may be part of what the federal government is investigating. the same office we used to run is now investigating. >> is it his bulls eye every day to get some former corrupt ukrainian prosecutor to say the reason joe biden got me out of my job and bragged about it was because i was investing in his son's company. >> that is what he wants to say but it has been debunked.

i yes you heard republican house members bring it up over and over again. >> they'll say a top official or former top official and they've got their talking point for the rest of the election. >> they've got to be careful. if they're paying people to say all this stuff, the question of money changing hands and how all that happened i think is a really interesting one. if these people are being paid to say things, that would be very bad. >> just hours after walking into the white house today, giuliani was tweeting about the impeachment investigation. he called impeachment today a smoke screen for the obama-biden administration's corruption. it will soon be proven. what's that? is that what we were just talking about? >> that's the whole thesis. look, everybody acknowledges it was a terrible optic for joe biden's son to be on that board with no experience, and that's a sleazy story. if it was just that, they were

going after you can't really argue with it. although normally a president would have an opposition research firm quite removed from him doing this work, right? but this whole idea biden threaten today with hold a billion dollars in aid if they didn't fire a prosecutor, they played that tape. biden was doing what the united states government, the eu, good government groups wanted to do, fire this prosecutor because he was corrupt. >> we've been talking about what possible circus we could see come january, starting probably the 6th when everybody's back. what is the chance we're going to get rudy giuliani basically going through top and frisk with the senate democrats and republican snz. >> i cannot imagine that his lawyers would let him testify because it would be insane for him to go under oath and talk to congress, and we don't even know in terms of money changing hands and who's paying him, but you know what rudy's done some pretty crazy things.

but a lot of his friends told him to go on television and talk to the media, so maybe he'll throw caution to the wind and come testify. >> which party? the democrats are bringing the charge of impeachment or the republicans stand to benefit from a wild, wild west circus this january. you just never know. >> giuliani was over in ukraine making a television show with one american news network which makes fox look like pbs. you've got millions of americans who believe this stuff. no matter what you and i say or the democrats in congress say, so you're absolutely right, it could backfire. rudy is a persuasive guy and he gets out in the camera and starts saying this stuff, people believe it. up next it's boris johnson's

landslide victory in the u.k. yesterday a cautionary tale for democrats? this is a hot topic around the office today. up next. you're watching "hardball." office today up next. you're watching "hardball. coughing oh no,... ...a cougher. welcome to flu season, karen.

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and a lot of ways to go. text a friend. call a cab. share a ride. whatever you choose to do, go safely, california. we did it. we did it. we pulled it off, didn't we? we pulled it off. we broke the deadlock. we ended the gridlock. we smashed the roadblock. and in this glorious, glorious pre-breakfast moment before a new dawn rises on a new day and a new government, this election means that getting brexit done is now the irrefutable, irresistible, unarguable decision of the british people. >> that was u.k. prime minister boris johnson celebrating earlier this morning after his conservative party won yesterday's election in a

landslide, giving the party its biggest parliamentary majority since margaret thatcher back in 1987. his win means the united kingdom is all but certain to leave the eu on january 31st. conservatives now hold 365 seats in commons compared to 203 in the labor party. a staggering 61% of voters had a negative opinion of corbyn according to a recent poll. he announced today he'll step down as labor leader in the next election which i think is five years, maybe sooner. his opponents and those who wish to remain were splintered. "the post" also drew a paurl lel to the u.s. political climate noting that just like in the united states there's been a growing urban, rural divide.

today president trump congratulated johnson and hinted it was a good sign for his re-election in 2020 just like brexit was for him in 2016. >> i want to congratulate boris johnson on a terrific victory. i think that might be a harbinger what's to come in our country. it was last time. >> it's not just republicans. and that's up next. you're watching "hardball." epubs and that's up next you're watching "hardball. mader members like kate. a former army medic, made of the flexibility to handle whatever monday has in store and tackle four things at once. so when her car got hit, she didn't worry. she simply filed a claim on her usaa app and said... i got this. usaa insurance is made the way kate needs it - easy. she can even pick her payment plan so it's easy on her budget and her life. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa

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welcome back to "hardball." at a fund-raiser last night joe biden used the british landslide yesterday to bolster his argument the democratic party shouldn't move too far to the left. according to the reporter who was there biden predicted headlines who said look what happens when the labor party moves so far to the left. it comes up with ideas that are not able to be contained within a rational basis quickly. you're also going to be seeing people saying my god boris johnson who's kind of a physical and emotional clone of the president is able to win? i'm joined by neera tanden, and andrew sullivan, a contributing editor to new york magazine. okay, look, let's just go. application here message for last night, coming into the fights for the primaries.

>> absolutely devastated i think for where the democratic party is, where their intellectuals are, what they're proposing next year will result in i think a pretty catastrophic result for them. and i think this has been clear for a while. the reason they lost was because they were ambivalent about brexit. >> labor rights, yeah. >> they were ambivalent about controlling immigration, which was a huge issue. and they didn't want to do what the people had already voted for, and they delayed it, and people were mad that their decision in 2016 was being delayed deliberately and blocked by these parliamentarians, and so boris also saw the thing to do right now if you're on the right to move on economics. so he was very different on thatcher, tax cuts only for the working class and poor. and lots of spending on health care. and that combination with a belief -- >> mixing it up i think the question is why did so many

working people on britain vote tory? >> because i think the labor party did not give them a real choice. i think the clalg is corbyn was not a realistic leader or alternative, and his approval or disapproval was much greater. i mean, both johnson and corbyn were unpopular but corbyn was significantly less popular. and there were, the second most important issue other than corbyn himself was economic issues as well. i think the individual issues may have been popular but the weight of all thof them and i think it allowed boris johnson to capture the economics. i think we should recognize the big difference between the you can and u.s. which is in the united states in 2018 democrats were able to capture suburban voters to make up for losses in rural communities. >> it was left as either sanders

or warren and by not beating germecorbyn's labor party which one should remember bernie sanders endorsed only last week. >> there is a robust debate in the democratic party. there are arguments across the board. not everybody is making the case about warren and sanders -- >> are you concerned about what happened? >> i am deep lee concerned. i am deeply concerned. but i take from that there is is a concern about particular policies. i think that democrats should look at that and say you have to put together an electoral coalition. the purpose of an opposition party is to win elections, and you have to put a broad coalition together. >> let's talk about the democratic party right now. i think bernie is having a come back of sorts, he's holding his vote. his believers are his believers. he's authentic. elizabeth warren is having a problem because she moved away from the very progressive position of medicare for all

because she was being hit hard for it, and being over to the center left i think with less enthusiasm. and buttigieg is a moderate and you could say he's doing the same thing boris johnson did. he saw his opportunity and moved to the center. biden is there but he's not moving up. i think this raises moving a bit to the center, a little bit. >> i sure hope so. there are two key issues here. one is that people do want to move left. but when corbyn presented them with a very similar proposal as the democrats have on the green new deal, for example, on massive overspending and borrowing, the working class people of britain decided we don't trust him. that's too much, too expensive. so the medicare for all, this is huge defeat for that kind of argument, a huge defeat for that kind of radicalism, and it is a very good thing which buttigieg is arguing for which do capture in the middle. >> is there a slight movement

towards the center in the party right now absent what happened in britain yesterday? >> i think the last month you've seen both biden and buttigieg rise. this is a factual matter and in fact in some places you see klobuchar rising as well. i don't think this is static. i do think democrats are more anxious about putting together an electoral win than they've been in any election cycle in recent history. and i do think what happened in britain but also recent polls that show there's a greater chance to win in the swing states with more moderate candidates are having an impact on the primary itself. and there's a bit, you know, actually pete buttigieg is arguing -- joe biden is arguing with warren and sanders about medicare for all. there's a deep debate -- >> big question on immigration which was the key force behind brexit, behind trump. all the democrats are essentially incredibly weak on

the subject. no one is talking about how we can control it. no one is talking about how we can stop illegal immigration in this country. >> i would say today comprehensive reform which includes both strong borders and pathway to citizenship -- actually in to18 democrats are -- >> they all want to decriminalize crossing the border. you think that's a good message? >> there's a difference among democrats on that topic. joe biden has not supported decriminalizing border entry, and i believe pete buttigieg is not and nor is amy klobuchar. >> no, he fell for it too. buttigieg in the first debates. >> a lot of people have raised their hands and a lot have changed since then. one of it reasons why this debate has really moved, who can put together a electoral victory is the central question, and people like bieldden and buttig

are arguing. and buttigieg argues this all the time. i think this is robust debate in the party. >> what are voters do who are torn here, if they have to choose between a very progressive candidate and biden and trump. how do they vote? >> they're going to vote for people who actually believe in borders. they're going to vote for people they don't think are deplorable. >> donald trump campaigned day in and day out in the three weeks before the mid-term elections and he lost the house. i agree i think you have to have a position and a reasonable position. >> this is fight going on right now. >> facts matter. >> neera tanden, thank you. andrew sullivan, welcome back to the show. you're always welcome. up next, how impeachment of a president constitutes the highest power of citizens. you're watching "hardball." r of. you're watching "hardball. [ slurping ]

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as of today a committee of the u.s. house of representatives has approved articles of impeachment against four american presidents. as a citizen and journalist i've lived through three of those four historic events, and to me they represent together the power we have to exercise through our elected representatives and also the limits to the power we set on the highest of our elected officials. impeachment is, let's face it,

the old expression of liberty on behalf of the american people. to indict a president for failure to honor his oath or her oath to the kunsitution that embodies the very prim of limited government. think of it this way. as americans we can walk out on any street, speak into the most powerful microphone and say whatever we wish about those at the height of our government. and that's the right asserted in the first amendment. impeachment honors a higher liberty to bring the most powerfully elected figure in the country to account, to judgment, to dismissal from office for having committed acts antagonistic to the country's highest office. i've spent my life witnessing the liberties guaranteed here, liberties not guaranteed elsewhere. i'm spoken my mind and criticized actions -- to speak so freely and so loudly and to

challenge elected authority with such confidence as the american people did today. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> mr. chairman, there are 23 ayes and -- tonight democrats vote to remove our cheating president. >> the president was caught red-handed. >> has donald trump prepares for his trial and meet with his bag man at the white house. >> i'll do long or short. >> plus, the supreme court's stunning decision to take up the fight over trump's taxes. connie schultz and senator sharrod brown how trumpism is playing in the u.s. and the american take-aways from the conservative blow