good morning, i'm keir simmons in new york at msnbc world headquarters, it's 7:00 in the east, 4:00 out west. it's day 83 in the impeachment and let's bring you up to date. >> the fix is already in. mitch mcconnell told us that. i mean, this is some good old fashioned soviet style justice. >> so trump will be impeached and he will carry that shame of being indicted by the house of representatives for abuse of office and defying congress for the rest of his natural life. >> one of the president's biggest defenders, senator lindsey graham had this to say just a short time ago about the trial expected to start early next year. >> if you wonder what's going to happen in washington, impeachment will be over

probably by mid-january. personally i think president trump will come out of this stronger. >> members of the senate are now bracing for what will be a historic trial. >> president trump now on the brink of impeachment is considering his defense options and trying to get at least one democrat to switch sides ahead of the upcoming vote. >> we have a team of reporters and analysts following the latest for us this hour. this morning's first big headline as we get closer to the historic house impeachment vote on wednesday, democrat congressman jeff van drew who has said he will vote against impeachment is expected to leave the party and register as a republican. one of president trump's biggest defenders, senator lindsey graham says he's already made up his mind, president trump should be a committed. meanwhile, some prominent house democrats say there are republicans who want to support impeachment but are afraid to. >> they know that if they stayed and stood up to him that they would be viciously punished.

we see what he does to people with whom he disagrees. >> i've heard from some republicans house concerned they are about the president's behavior, but we'll see how they vote. the president really is very thuggish when it comes to republicans or anyone who disagrees with him. >> all right. let's go to the white house and nbc's kelly o'donnell. kelly, educate the british guy guest appearing in the anchor chair this morning. we've heard two opposing views following house judiciary committee's impeachment vote. what's the over averaging theme on both sides as we await the full house vote on wednesday. >> reporter: certainly you've been living through brexit so you are well-prepared for dealing with this. these are hardened positions and we have seen it playing out over these 80 some days in which the inquiry is before the congress and just a few days away from decision time for all members of the house of representatives these positions do seem hardened. the focus for the white house has been looking at roughly 30

democrats who are in trump districts and by that we mean in the last election they won their democratic seats but the president had won in 2016 there. there is no expectation that the defections would be anywhere near that high. not at all, but they are going to seize upon this one particular democrat from southern new jersey whose home district has been favorable to president trump. he is a democrat in his first term and is expected to switch parties after voting against impeachment. that would be a way for the president then to embrace him, he's already done so on twitter and perhaps we'll see if that would have some effect on jeff van crew's future when he runs for reelection himself. one way to see it how a one time congresswoman from california, a staffer during the nixon period when the inquiry was begun she cast a vote during the bill

clinton impeachment and now has had a big role in the trump era. listening to her juxtapose with florida republican matt gaetz who is a fierce supporter of trump. >> there was some degree of frustration because our colleagues on the other side of the aisle were talking from talking points and saying things that -- they weren't true. and that's frustrating that they wouldn't look at the facts. they appeared to see their role as defense counsel for the president rather than members of congress in an impeachment proceeding. >> we continue to see the impeachment movement losing steam. it's losing steam in the polls, in the votes, in the democratic caucus and now you literally see democrat members jumping ship and leaving the party all together. >> yeah, jeff van drew. >> because, you know, the impeachment strategy is the all-in strategy for democrats,

it's not something you can really do halfway. rather than working with republicans to try to advance an america first agenda, democrats are wholly obsessed with delegitimizing the president who won the election. >> reporter: and democrats have been focused on the argument that they believe it's their constitutional duty to look at these facts and they have made a judgment and the full body will make a judgment this week about whether the president abused his power and obstructed congress. republicans much more focused on saying this has been partisan, political and defending the president, saying that this is much more about the campaign ahead in 2020 and democrats trying to seek advantage there. hardened positions, very difficult to get people to move off of their two different camps and we'll see how this plays out wednesday. by the shear numbers the democrats have in the house it's expected that he will face that full impeachment and then as we've talked about the senate trial would begin in the new year, a very different landscape for the president. keir? >> nbc's kelly o'donnell.

impeachment, brexit, luckily we have you to take us through it, my friend. really appreciate it. >> good to see you. joining me now allen smith and susan dell perch joe msnbc political analyst. alan, are we just in for another week of polarization in take me through the events of wednesday? >> looking forward to wednesday we want to see specifically how some of the more moderate democrats end up voting. i think last week conor lamb a congressman from western pennsylvania, a more moderate district, he ran a very moderate campaign, he came out and said that he was voting in favor of articles of impeachment so that sort of shows you the direction that this is going in, counter to the white house speaking to 30 or so moderate members trying to get some people to flip sides. with him coming out in favor of articles of impeachment that gives you an idea of where the more moderate end of the caucus is going to be voting. of course also you want to see are there any republicans whatsoever in the house who end up voting in favor of impeachment because there's little -- there's little, you

know, consequence for them not to on the surface, but do any take sort of that personal initiative as if they believe that he should be impeached and if any individual members do that that could be a bit of a narrative changing moment. >> susan, both sides seem emboldened, but -- but if we saw republicans particularly in the senate start to shift, then that would be a dramatic thing and at the same time surely if a house democrat or house democrats vote against impeachment that enables the president who say, you see, this isn't about principle, this is about politics. >> there is that. if there is a bipartisan effort against impeachment, that does help with the republicans, specifically the president's narrative, no doubt. we have to also look at certain situations on a case-by-case basis. you look ativan drew, he basically got some polling numbers saying if he supports impeachment he will lose the democratic primary. so he's switching. no one switches from the majority into the minority unless they feel like they can't

keep their jobs. so we have that. when we look at what's going to happen in the senate, it's all up for grabs because the president is going to be -- after he's impeached i think just out of control, unhinged and he will change his mind 18 times as far as what he wants out of the trial process. does he want a short trial? does he want a long trial? and who knows what else can happen between now and when that trial starts. >> that's such an interesting point because the politics and then as the principle, if you like, alan. that's a great point that the president who manages to survive impeachment is an emboldened president. >> yes, absolutely, and going into this, you know, we've heard from senators like lindsey graham who said they are not going to be a partial juror essentially, but there are a lot of republican senators who we have not heard from and, you know, also one element reaching the 67-vote threshold to actually remove the president but there's also voting in majority to impeach and convict him which would be a narrative

changing moment. >> we have that sound from senator graham. let's take a listen. >> this thing will come to the senate and it will die quickly and i will do everything i can to make it die quickly. i am trying to give a pretty clear signal i have made up my min mind. >> i wasn't in any doubt at this point. is it appropriate to be voicing your opinion even before this gets to the senate as a trial? >> well, i must think so because i'm doing it. >> let's just start with you. she asked there is it appropriate. is it smart politically to be saying -- to be, you know, announcing your conclusion before the actual trial has taken place, if there is one? >> lindsey graham is speaking to south carolina voters. he wants to avoid any sort of primary whether now or in the future at all costs and his numbers among republicans have gone up significantly since he became more supportive of the president. it's not advising that he is fastening himself as an

impartial juror and i think viewers wouldn't be surprised to see many senators actually be quite impartial heading into this, but there is a significant enough group that we don't know enough about yet that could make this trial interesting and could have consequences as it still plays out. >> is it a smart move by senator graham? >> well, i think what senator graham and senator mitch mcconnell the majority leader are trying to do is send a message to donald trump. you want this to be a short process. we can control it if it's a short process. while i think it's completely unethical what lindsey graham is doing and what mitch mcconnell is doing, frankly, they are just trying to get to the president and say, keep it short because we won't be able to control it because let's not forget when it comes to witnesses, when it comes to other things it's a 51 majority that's needed and you may see some republicans say, it's wrong to have hunter biden here, it's wrong to put on a show. so they want to keep it to a

brief trial. i do think that we have the potential to have a 51 or 52 majority convict the president and yet he won't be ejected from office because it won't reach the 67 -- 67 number to do that. >> the hill today raised this question in its headline, is a trap being set for trump in the senate trial? it reads in part over the past week i've heard from three seasoned republicans who fear that president trump and the west wing are seriously underestimating the potential danger of a senate trial. it's important for the white house to understand that the weight of history is settling upon the shoulders of these senators, some of them are quite weak, and because of that pressure private conversations are taking place and a trap may be sprung for the president in that trial. alan, is the white house too confident? >> i mean, if you look at the past two, two and a half years there have been many moments along the way where republicans have been expected to defect from the president in mass numbers --

>> it doesn't happen. >> it doesn't happen. i'm not going to go into this thinking that this will be the time, even though this is the weightiest sort of moment yet. >> right. >> it just goes counter to the history we've seen so far. >> right. >> certainly in small enough numbers it could happen and as susan was saying to get to that 51 or 52 vote level that would have significant implications because trump would be sitting there as a president who was convicted by a majority of the senate and those numbers i've got a feeling that he wouldn't necessarily be too fond of those. >> susan, will republicans feel the weight of haddist ri? >> as a republican i have been waiting for my party to do the right thing in the senate and in the house and they have not. i do not expect that to change. i do think that there could be a small group, it will probably be four or five senators, i don't think you will see one or two, i think it will have to be a block coming in to do the right thing but that opinion piece was wishful dreaming. i keep wanting that to happen but then i weak up and realize what we're left with.

>> alan, thank you very much. you are released, susan, we will see you again in a few minutes. new details this morning about president trump's plan to draw down the number of troops in afghanistan and an nbc news exclusive report that the administration is getting ready to announce about 4,000 u.s. troops are coming home. nbc's matt bradley joins us with the latest from london. matt, we're also getting reaction from the taliban. what are you hearing? >> reporter: yeah, keir, we've heard from two taliban officials that this is news to them, too. u.s. negotiating team hasn't told their taliban counterparts about the taliban's top brass and they are all just learning it from the media. it's the latest in this long line of impetuous foreign policy decisions an announcements by this administration and that's taught america's ep please and its allies and even its own u.s. soldiers and diplomats completely by surprise and of course there is lots of examples of what you could call this kind of like diplomatic whiplash diplomacy, but maybe the most emblematic is this on again, off

again negotiations that the president has coordinated between the u.s. government and the taliban. so this time the president appears to be announcing this massive withdrawal, about a third of the u.s. soldiers who are currently in afghanistan, only days after his peace envoy resumed negotiations with the taliban in what was, again, another surprise decision, even for many american officials. so now as always this drawdown it's consistent with the president's long-term policy on afghanistan, he's always said that he intends to untangle u.s. soldiers from these inn termable wars and afghanistan has been the longest and most expensive military ventures in u.s. history. keir, as the "washington post" so-called afghanistan papers show the u.s. and its allies have almost nothing to show for 18 years of war and occupation and three presidential administrations have consistently misrepresented the war's progress to the american public, but, you know, any american military expert will tell you that unilaterally

drawing downforces while negotiating with the enemy is probably not the best security strategy. but the president is determined to get out of afghanistan and he said that the taliban is eager to agree to a taliban. it's not clear if that's the taliban's decision. the president has reversed these decisions in the past. while the stakes are incredibly high for america's longest ever war we are all still just going to have to wait and see. keir? >> matt bradley, thank you, my friend, from london. next, rudy giuliani talking big about his secret assignment in ukraine. and his new theory about why we haven't heard specifics about what he found. we haven't heard specifics about what he found. ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪

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new insight today on rudy giuliani's trip to ukraine and what he discovered. the "wall street journal" reports he states he found more than you can imagine. now senator lindsey graham is inviting giuliani to testify about his findings in an interview set to air on "face the nation" later today. take a listen. >> i don't know what he pound, but if he wants to come to the judiciary committee, rudy, if you want to come and tell us what you found i would be glad to talk to you. we can look at what rudy has got and joe biden, hunter biden and anything else you want to look at after impeachment. but if rudy wants to come to the judiciary committee and testify about what he found, he's welcome to do so. >> joining me now is trial lawyer and msnbc legal

contributor katie phang and former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschn kirschner. glenn, you heard senator graham there, what do you make of him inviting giuliani to testify but not at the impeachment trial? >> you know, i think we should welcome an opportunity to have rudy giuliani placed under oath and actually be responsible legally for the things he says. we all saw him infamously say on tv, i never asked ukraine to investigate the bidens, and then in the next breath rudy giuliani said, of course i asked ukraine to investigate the bidens. now, yes, rudy has been over there meeting with fallen and disgraced politicians and prosecutors, collecting up goodness knows what kind of information, but i will say, keir, if giuliani had found anything along the way that was

really credible and could really assist the president, he would have been screaming it from the rooftops. >> it's a great point, katie, right? giuliani says he has more information than we can imagine. if he does, surely now is the time to get it out there, that impeachment is coming down the tracks, now is the time. speak up, giuliani. >> yeah, more information than we can imagine, probably, keir, because it's fantastical and fictional in nature. i agree with glenn, put this man under oath under penalties of perjury and let him attest to congress what he has found, but, listen, the client for rudy giuliani is donald trump. donald trump sometimes wants to hide and pretend like that's not the case but an attorney/client relationships exists and one that giuliani reinforces. donald trump being his client is now facing the largest and most challenging political fight of his life in terms of an impeachment trial. if giuliani had something of

value that could help exculpate or assist his client we would have known about it by now. unfortunately and interestingly we also know that giuliani has said it will be prepared this a 20-page report. how does he know it's going to be 20 pages? there's so much that's so bizarre about the rudy giuliani destruction of credibility tour that we have now launched the next stage of it, but, you know, lindsey graham does a disservice to some extent. why allow him to come and propagate completely uncorroborated conspiracy theories about the ukraine? why allow him to come and do that? i think lindsey graham has a lot to account for himself. >> rudd also told the "wall street journal" the president is still asking him about the dirt that he tried to dig up in ukraine. put this together. how baffling is it that the president's attorney is still going to ukraine to pursue the same matters that have turned into an impeachment inquiry? >> yeah, it's in a word crazy. i mean, they are still trying to dig up phoney dirt on the bidens

and maybe we will hear that rudy giuliani has uncovered evidence that the bidens were also part of the jfk assassination. you know, we don't really know what might be coming next from rudy giuliani. you know, if there was any credibility to any of this i think as i say we would have heard about it long ago. i think it's important to note that president trump didn't really care about the bidens or this fake corruption in 2017, he didn't care about it in 2018, he was regularly releasing aid to ukraine and then joe biden throws his hat in the ring and becomes the front runner and in 2019 all of a sudden president trump says, hey, wait a minute, i think somebody better look into him for alleged corruption. it couldn't be more transparent, it couldn't be more baseless and it couldn't be more laughable. >> katie, how big a liability is giuliani becoming for the president? >> not becoming, has been since day one. something is really awry with rudy giuliani and now that we know that his known associates

lev parnas and igor fruman are being vigorously prosecuted by the sdny and giuliani is under investigation, we know that lev parnas has a tendency to talk, that he's cooperating, has provided documents to congress so far. if i were rudy giuliani i would keep a low profile but you and i both know he can't help himself. >> he can't help himself. glenn, we know the president is receiving free legal services from giuliani but now this from "the new york times," reporting trump, quote, didn't mention giuliani or his unpaid labor in the annual financial disclosure which requires that the value and source of gifts be publicly listed. is this a finance violation, and, if so, how problematic is it? >> you know, with bill barr running the justice department no infraction, no violation of the law by trump is problematic for trump. let me circle back to the lev parnas thing because it was i think amuse that go lev parnas apparently when he and his

lawyers were reporting tots judge in his case his assets somehow a million dollar payment from russia in september slipped his mind. you know, i don't know, i don't check my bank balance all that often but when i do if i find 50 extra dallas i'm thrilled, if i find i have 50 less dollars i'm concerned. i think most people would have noticed a million dollar deposit in september from russia. i do think the more that the -- >> it's an every day occurrence in your bank balance, isn't it? >> the more pressure that's put on lev parnas, i agree with katie, the worse things are going to get for trump and giuliani. >> thanks, guys. new york city authorities have made an arrest in connection with the brutal murder of an 18-year-old college student. we will tell you what they're not ruling out next. we will tell you what they're not ruling out next. [farmers bell] (burke) at farmers insurance, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a "three-ring fender bender."

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now to the morning headlines. there is a manhunt this morning after gun fire erupts inside a busy mall in atlanta saturday. video shows the chaotic scene as holiday shoppers start running for cover.

police say an argument between three people in the foot court escalated into the shooting. one person was wounded, the suspect fled the scene. a north carolina community is in shock this morning after surveillance video of a sheriff's deputy slamming a boy to the frowned is made public. the vance county officer is seen walking down the holloway with a student before he suddenly picks him up and throws him to the ground. the child is said to be in good health, the deputy was placed on paid leave pending the investigation for thursday's incident. and in new orleans is a state of emergency this morning after a cyber attack. computer servers have been shut down since friday as a precaution after suspicious activity was detected on the city's network despite emergency operations not being impacted. the mayor there declared the state of emergency on saturday. this is the third cyber attack in louisiana this year of more than 100 similar attacks targeting state and local governments across the country.

now to new york city and new investigative twists in the murder of that 18-year-old college student, a 13-year-old boy is charged as the juvenile in the staubing death of tess majors, a student in barnard college in new york. nbc's kathy park has the latest on the search for clues in a case that has shocked the city. good morning, cathy. >> reporter: keir, good morning. investigators are working around the clock looking for additional suspects. this park is still a very active crime scene as a memorial for the college student grows nearby. a dive team back at a manhattan pond searching for evidence in the stabbing of 18-year-old barnard college student tessa majors. the investigation taking a major turn with the arrest of a 13-year-old boy and new details revealed in court friday. our new york station wnbc reporting that a detective testified saying that the suspect and his two friends were at morningside park on wednesday intending to commit a robbery.

the detective testifying the boy said he watched as his friends put the young woman in a choke hold and removed items from her pocket. the suspect describing the stabbing and struggle as feathers flew out of her jacket adding tessa tried fighting back, biting one of her attackers on the finger according to the detective. while it's unclear what role the 13-year-old played in the brazen crime he is face ago list of charges as a juvenile, including second degree murder. his attorney saying he had no criminal history and that there is no allegation he touched the victim or took anything from her. because of his age, the teen is not being identified by nbc news. officials are also questioning a 14-year-old and looking for a third suspect. described by family as a light that shined brightly, tessa expressed joy in writing and music. a memorial grows in her honor as a community remembers a young life cut short. >> i hope that this

investigation finds the truth, but, i mean, i'm heartbroken for all parties. >> reporter: a judge ordered that the suspect be held until tuesday so that's when he will be back in court. meantime, we reached out to the suspect's family and now they had to comment on this case. >> kathy park, thank you. now back to politics and the impeachment proceedings at a critical point in the coming week, once the impeachment articles pass the full house which is expected wednesday, it moves to the senate and already republicans and democrats are reportedly competing for jobs as impeachment managers. joining me now julia manchester reporter for the hill. julia, there a clue about what's coming down the tracks this week? what's this about lawmakers setting up for the senate trial. >> how does it work? >> right. i think a lot of republicans are very much jockeying to be managers and be essentially spokes persons for president trump in the senate, even though they sit in the house. you've heard a number of republicans whether it's congressman john ratcliff, doug

collins or jim jordan of ohio, those three have been probably the president's most vocal defenders in the house proceedings and you're seeing them trying to really try to defend president trump ahead of the senate trial. you're also seeing president trump really much put all of his eggs in one basket ahead this have senate trial, very much, you know -- there is this feeling among republicans and administration officials that this is going to go smoothly for the president and that the president will easily be acquitted in that trial and that this will politically work well for the president. president trump even said last week that, you know, he hopes this is dragged out and that more witnesses will be called. so we'll really have to wait and see, but republicans very much gearing up for this in the hopes that it's politically feasible for them. >> julia, give us more on the candidates likely to represent each side. let's start with the president. who does he want to defend him? >> i think the president obviously wants a number of lawyers to defend him, but, like i said, those three names before, doug collins, john

ratcliff, jim jordan of ohio, those are three vocal defenders of the president and have defended the president in the house long before the impeachment inquiry. we know that president trump has praised them in the past, we know that loyalty is very important for president trump but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these lawmakers even though they are a bit shy about coming out and saying they want to defend him in the senate trial, i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of these lawmakers feel that there will be a political benefit to this in defending president trump because they know how popular president trump is within the republican party and their conservative constituents. >> what about the democrats, julia? >> so in terms of the democrats you're seeing a number of lawmakers coming forward, some in the house as well as some in the senate, however, you know, they aren't probably as vocal as we're seeing from, you know, doug collins, john ratcliff and jim jordan of ohio, but you're seeing a number of democrats starting to come forward but it will be interesting to see

because there are some democrats in the house who have appeared a bit on the fence. you have jim van drew from new jersey switching parties or saying he will switch parties about impeachment. so democrats moving forward with impeachment obviously but they are also walking a tightrope when it comes to figuring out this political calculus. >> i want to get your reaction to this poll following the judiciary's hearings, it shows support for impeachment essentially unchanged since september when the ukraine memo with as first released. are people's minds already made up? will anything move the needle at this point? >> you know, keir, i think people and americans have been very much dug in on impeachment. impeachment is a very partisan issue and i don't think impeachment really is a priority for a number of americans outside of washington. >> isn't that stunning? given the importance of it. it's just incredible, isn't it? >> yes, absolutely, but i think it just shows how partisan this is really going forward and how americans are really dug in, but

going into an election i don't think impeachment is necessarily going to move the needle. i think it's going to be issues like health care and the economy really, but it just shows that americans are dug in and i don't know if any of these public hearings, this public testimony, is necessarily going to change the mind of americans. >> all right. julia manchester, thank you, my friend. >> thank you. cory booker wants more diversity on the stage for the upcoming debates, but do the other candidates support him? t e other candidates support him ma s ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks,

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new this morning, a letter obtained by nbc news says a group of 2020 candidates are urging the democratic national committee to, quote, lift the barriers on participation in the upcoming presidential debates. the letter was written by cory booker's campaign. amanda golden joins us now from manchester, new hampshire. tell us more about what this letter says. >> reporter: yes, this letter was spearheaded by senator cory booker's campaign and got all seven of the debate stage candidates for thursday's debate to sign on to it, as well as former -- as well as julian castro signed on to the letter as well. the letter points to a lack of diversity on the debate stage as a critical condition for ranting the dn consider. to open up qualifications not just accepting the grassroots donor threshold or the polling, not a combination of the two. the letter says, quote, the escalating thresholds over the past few months have unnecessarily and artificially narrowed what started as the strongest and most diverse

democratic field in history before voters have had a chance to be heard. so the letter comes as it appears booker was not going to appear on the debate stage and calling on the dnc to ease up on the qualifications looking at future debates in january and february. >> did the dnc agree to change the threshold? >> they did not. they i wish auto you had a statement saying, quote, the dnc will not change the threshold for any one kantd dat and will not prevent back to two consecutive nights. our qualification criteria is extremely low and reflects where we are on the race. the candidates who qualified for the debate signed on the letter but thursday's debate is scheduled to go forward although they say they will not cross a picket line. so we will wait and see what happens next as far as the debate on thursday. >> some pre debate drama there. amanda golden, thank you. as we inch closer to the 2020 presidential election, those inside president trump's inner circle say the impeachment

inquiry could actually help his reelection campaign. what are voters across the country saying? that's next. what are voters across the country saying that's next.

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gives us insight into how the white house is trying to turn impeachment into a win for the president. after a week of wracking up legislative victories from securing a trade deal with mexico and canada to reaching an agreement in principle for a spending bill that will avert a government shutdown the post reports by friday as the house judiciary committee passed two articles of impeachment against trump the began has begun telling a lies that maybe impeachment wasn't so bad after all. joining me now rashad richey, radio talk show host and political commentator and susan del percio msnbc political a.m.ist. guys, the article continues on to say all week at white house parties and in phone calls with allies trump privately mused about trying to prolong the impeachment process because he says it helps his reelection prospects. susan, i'm assuming you don't agree with the president. >> no, not so much. besides alternate facts apparently he operates in alternate realities because the

fact of the matter is the president being impeached will be the first thing in his political obituary, if you will, and that is going to define him, it's going to hurt him during the reelection campaign. being impeached, there is nothing good about it. he will say assuming that the senate holds and that they will not convict him with the requisite 67 votes he will say i've been acquitted but that's not enough. the president is being impeached and that will follow him through this campaign. >> okay. in terms of how it's playing with voters, though, nbc campaign embeds have gotten some reaction from voters in new hampshire. here is what two independent voters said about impeachment and 2020. >> you've been following the process carefully? >> no, not at all. >> how do you feel that the impact will impact your support? >> me personally, no. >> do you feel that the impeachment process is going to affect who you ultimately support in 2020? >> no. no. >> how come? >> because right now i think the economy is doing great, i'm

really happy with t i'm happy with the way the direction of the country is going, so no, not at all. >> rashad, to see voters some at least shrugging their shoulders about impeachment, that might worry democrats, might nt it? >> well, to some degree. when you look at the overall polling data it is quite obvious that president trump going around saying at private parties that impeachment is helpful, well, that's bogus. that is a bogus argument. he will not come out of this each more popular than before. the polling has been very consistent as to roughly half of americans want to see him impeached and removed. however, the political reality will not follow that person to person reality because the senate has already gone on record, many republican senators are saying they're not going to vote -- they won't even really hear the trial presentation against president trump. so you see a real disconnect between the statistical data as

it relates to voters and what w the u.s. senate, republican u.s. senators are saying going forward >> but what about this poll following the house judiciary hearing showing support for the president's impeachment unchanged since september. >> tribalism and politics. remember when the first inclination of impeachment started, the polling data was at 28% of americans were in favor of impeaching the president and removing the president. since this actual inquiry started, that has increased to 50%, 51%. is it is definitely moving in the direction that democrats and speaker nancy pelosi would like to see and moving against what republicans would like to see as it relates to president zelensky. >> susan, two parts to this, the principle of impeachment and the politics. do you think the politics is moving the needle at all? >> to some extent, i do think

that this country is deeply divided. and the reason you haven't seen the president's numbers changed that much is those people are with him. they're going to stay with him. and then you have folks who are going to stay with the democrats. we have about 10% to play with. so that's where the issue of why was he impeached? why was the president impeached? it's not the word impeachment that is going to get to voters. it is going to be why. he bribed a foreign government to get dirt on his opponents. this is the character of the man who is seeking re-election. and that will turn off a lot of voters. they will turn that into messaging, that you can't trust him on foreign aid, you can't trust him on your health care. they will develop that messaging. but, again, we're really playing to about 10% in the middle there. >> all right. rashad, let's talk a little bit about the democratic race. a new poll from wisconsin shows five potential democratic contenders matched up against president trump. joe biden is the only candidate

leading by one point. the others are trailing the president by one or two points. wisconsin is a crucial state for trump. is it too early to read anything into these polls or do you take away that biden is still the democrat front runner and potentially the right person to take on trump? . >> well, if you look at this poll, all major candidates on the democratic side are well within the margin of error of defeating president trump. and i know we continue to call wisconsin a swing state. but wisconsin since 1984 always went to the democratic presidential challenger. that changed when hillary clinton was defeated by trump in that state. but she only was defeated by less than 1%. i don't think this is the end all, but it definitely does not give the trump campaign a good feeling about winning wisconsin. i think democrats are going to win wisconsin. i think they are looking forward to getting the 10 electoral votes back on their side.

>> that's interesting. excuse the british guy bringing in a bridge reference. boris johnson solidified support particularly amongst working class voters. you don't see that? >> well, i don't think trump is going to win those same working class voters. remember, during the last presidential cycle, hillary clinton did not spend a lot of time in wisconsin. she lost that state. she should have won that state. and wisconsin has a lot of farmers. those farmers are now being impacted by these ridiculous tariffs launched by the president and his ego with china. that will cause real cause and effect relationship to the voting bloc of wisconsin. that is why you are seeing every single democratic candidate virtually is polling within the margin of error to beat trump, including mayor pete. . >> here is a similar poll from texas. when matched up against four democratic candidates, this shows joe biden trailing the

president by one point. it is typically a red state of course. what do you make of that? . >> it is a red state. there is talk of it becoming more and more purple,s which is true. i think it will be very tough for the democrats to take texas going forward. >> it would be an earthquake, wouldn't it? >> yeah. it would be tremendous. let's put it this way, if the democrats are winning texas, they're probably winning about 45 states. it could be that. that's what it would mean. but i also think when you are looking at all these pollings, it depends on who the president is ultimately running against. when you look in september and people are saying is the democratic nominee someone who is taking away health care from 160 million people, a lot of union workers as well who fought for those benefits and now is going to say the government is going to give you your health care now, that will be a disaster i think for democrats when they're looking to turn out more of the vote. because donald trump's vote is going to show up no matter what.

it really does fend on who the president is running. right now all the numbers are close. i think it is a generic democrat in that poll versus donald trump. not necessarily about the individuals as much. >> once again, it's likely to be about who gets their vote out. rashad, susan, thanks so much. >> how the president is using the ig report to keep pushing his deep state conspiracies. that's head on "up." before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins.

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and that will do it for me this morning. i'm keir simmons. now it is time for "up" with david gura. well, this is "up". i'm david gura. and a democratic lawmaker opposed to the impeachment inquiry is expected to defect from the democratic party. nbc news reporting congressman jeff van drew plans to register as a republican. the next democratic debate is just days away. and there's an effort under way to change how candidates qualify for future debates. senator cory booker is behind it and one of his top advisers will join us on "up". the "washington post" unveiled the biggest pinocchios of 2019. it includes this moment. >> they gave the server to crowdstrike or whatever it's called, which is a country -- which is a company owned by