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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  December 15, 2019 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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thanks for watching this hour of msnbc live. the news continues with my colleague richard lui. take it away. >> thanks. enjoy your weekend as it starts for you. good afternoon to you. i'm richard lui at msnbc headquarters right here in new york city. thanks for spending your sunday with us. we're going again with the momentous week ahead for the nation. you've heard about it. the full house of representatives. they will vote on articles of impeachment. that's the plan, at least, that we hear. this will be only the third time in history it will be happening. but before that happens, the judiciary committee will deliver its full report on impeachment. then on tuesday, the rules committee will meet to mark up the report to establish guidelines for the florida debate. and then on wednesday, the full house, as i was mentioning, scheduled to debate and vote on articles of impeachment. and if it feels like all this is happening quickly, well, if you have your watch and calendar out, it has been. articles of impeachment were drafted for richard nixon as we
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look back after 170 days. for bill clinton, it was 64. and president trump beats that record. it took just 40 days from the time the house voted to begin the process to win articling were drafted. and he's on track for a speedy full house vote on top of that. that's one thing democrats and republicans can agree on. take a listen. >> are you confident you have a majority to impeach the president? >> i am confident. i'm not whipping this either. i don't think anyone is. this is a real vote of conscience. >> i think this is the beginning of the end for this show trial that we've seen in the house. i think it's going to come to the senate. we're going to have fair proceedings, and then it's not going anywhere because the facts aren't there. >> it is the responsibility of the american people to hold these senators accountable. >> this is not political. we should not be looking at those things. this is the defense of our democracy. do we stay a democratic republic or do we turn into a tyranny?
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>> i am clearly made up my mind. i'm not trying to find the fact that i have disdain for the accusations and the process. so i don't need any witnesses. . >> our panel of experts are ready to break down the significance of what is about to happen this coming week. but first, democratic congressman mark desonnier of california joins me right now. he is on the house rules committee. and that committee is set to mark up the report in just a couple of days. representative, thanks for being with us. >> my pleasure. thank you for inviting me, richard. >> representative, what do you expect to be coming out tonight when we do get the full report if you will from the judiciary committee? >> i think it will stay consistent with the articles that they've already released. and also consistent with the 300 pages that are in the intelligence committee report. >> yeah, it was what, a week ago when we got the report coming from the judiciary committee in terms of the rules, that they would -- the definitions by which they would decide whether articles were going to be defined or not.
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here we are a week later. how will you vote on this? >> i will support it. i think that if as i've said to some of my republican friends, if the roles were reversed, if a drad had done this, i would feel the same way. rules are important. this president doesn't think rules apply to him. >> do you think it's too early to decide that you will be voting yes to impeach? >> no. i think it's very, very clear from the 300 report from his own admission. federal law says as candidate you cannot seek, solicit or receive anything of value from a foreign national. to me it's very clear and the evidence is very clear he has done that. so if i were to do that, i would expect to be indicted and convicted. >> going back to the calendar tuesday in the markup, what do you do in the markup? what do you plan to do in the markup? >> well, given the tenor heretofore in the judiciary and
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intelligence, i'm afraid that it's going to be emotional. a lot of histrionics. i hope that that won't be the case. i hope that we'll focus on how important this is for the country, the context of it, the relationship between the rule of law and the constitution. i think that there will be some discussion about how long the debate should be on the floor. during the cloymt impeachme ini it was very long. questions of process. >> i want to go to jerry nadler who is chairing the judiciary committee and what he said today. we'll take a listen very quickly. >> what he's reacting to is the public polling that shows he can't get renominated. his electorate in his district is 24% to renominate him and 60% to nominate somebody else. but more to the point, this is not political. we should not be looking at those things. >> so that news as you know came out yesterday. representative andrew from new jersey, the reporting being that he will switch parties.
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he has not supported the impeachment inquiry. most likely, if he follows true to form will not be voting for impeachment either. might you see the risk of others going the other way, that your caucus can afford 17 votes defecting, no more? the current "washington post" 6 to 10 potentially are thinking no, i'm not going to vote for impeachment. that the number that you're sensing, feeling, that you've discussed with other members? >> yes. and i think the votes will be there. unfortunately, we're in a period of history where the people beat up on members. there is a lot of intimidation. this is such an important vote, more important than a reelection, at least for me. i want to go down in history on the right side, and i think it's an issue of conscience, as adam schiff said. >> adam schiff also said does not want to cause trauma to the united states. no the senate does not. if the senate does acquit, should i say, is that trauma to
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the united states? >> i think it's really dangerous, particularly if they don't appear to be objective. and i don't think this president is going to stop. if he is acquitted, what is it the republicans would actually take action for him for? he is going in my belief -- i don't think he is capable of stopping. i think he is going to break more rules and more laws. >> acquitted, is that failure? >> no. i think this is bigger than just votes. for me, this is standing up to what i think is the basis of american democracy. if democracy is the rule of law and the constitution, you adhere to that. if you want to change the laws you go through the process. >> and finally, how will this be written in the history books? how big of a day? how big of a week are we seeing in front of us? >> it depends what the future looks like. if american democracy continues, and i think it will, i personally think that history will indicate that the russians helped get this president-elected, if he didn't get him elected, and there are more relationships that we
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aren't aware now that history will find out about. >> congressman mark desaulnier, thank you so much of california with a great view of the san francisco bay. thank you so much, sir. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> i want to bring in reuters white house correspondent jeff mason, the hill senior writer scott wong and joyce vance. joyce, you heard the last question and what the representative was saying. how will this week be written about? how big a deal? it's what we've been tornado warninging about for how long here in the beltway. but for everyday americans, ma will this be written as? >> it feels very much like this is the week where the future of our democracy hangs in the balance. people haven't focused i don't think quite enough yet, richard, on that second article of impeachment which charges that the president in an unprecedented way has refused to comply with legal process, with subpoenas that have asked for documents and for witness testimony in this congressional
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oversight proceeding. and instead of providing some information and saying well, that's enough, we won't give you anymore, or at least negotiating in good faith, the president issued a blanket refusal to let congress have oversight of the executive branch. if that's the new rules of order going forward, then we are far closer to a society where the president has almost an extreme expansion of power that's unprecedented. so this is that week where we find out what the future of our democracy looks like. >> scott, you just heard me say, the "washington post" saying six to ten potential defectors on the democratic side. they can afford 17, not 18. what are you hearing? >> i'm hearing just in that same ballpark. and it's not actually that many when you think about it. in fact, all of the frontline members that we've seen taking a position in recent days on
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impeachment have all come out in favor of impeachment. just today we had two more, antonio delgado up in the hudson valley of new york, jason crow in the denver suburbs. that followed a number of other vulnerable front liners, the majority makers who helped democrats seize the majority, who helped flip seats in the 2018 election. so that's telling. that tells me -- and i think they're also looking at some recent polling. today fox news had a poll that showed that 50% of voters support impeachment. so they perhaps are looking at polling. they're hearing from their constituents back home. they're also saying they're standing on principle that this is the right thing to do and that that really is what should matter. >> that poll, jeff, when you look at it, if you're for impeachment, you're for removal. there is no sort of in between here. it's either get him out or leave him. >> yeah, well, and that's what impeachment is about. the political reality of this
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particular impeachment process that we're writing about and witnessing right now is that the votes are there to impeach him in the house and the votes are not there in the senate to convict him. so it's very unlikely that this process is going to lead to his removal. but even so, it is a very significant thing for a president to be impeached. president trump knows that. he has dismissed the impeachment as a witch hunt and dismissed it as a hoax, but he is not happy about joining the ranks of the few presidents in history who have gone through this and who have actually been impeached. it will be a momentous day for him. it certainly be that way for the previo rest of the country. >> joyce, as we went through the calendar with the representative, let's pull up the calendar again. if you were trying to give us tips about how to watch the next several day, what should we be watching out for? >> well, i think the most important thing will be the impeachment vote in the house itself. look, we're going hear in markup and in other hearings a lot of
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posturing, what the congressman called histrionics. and what i know from participating in trials for many years is lawyers love to use theatrics and histrionics. people in congress are no different, but jurors, real jurors who are looking for the truth see beyond that. and i think the much more sober-minded reasonable argumentation being offered by the democrats who come forward with fact and ask people to draw conclusions based on the law ultimately that is the sort of approach that people in our country will take. it doesn't speak to what will happen in the senate. but i think watching that posturing that we'll see this week may turn a lot of people in this country off. >> and we'll see whether the posturing, right here, scott, is just looking at this week, just looking at the senate trial. because there is certainly going to be other headlines after that. after what is expected to be an acquittal. we still have the supreme court on taxes, we've got all of these
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are that are in front post-trial that could still really stick something in the side of certain republicans because they are so committed to this president. there is still risk out there. are any of them thinking that way right now? >> i think what you've heard from democrats is that just because they will be taking this impeachment vote doesn't mean the investigations will stop. as you pointed out, there are a number of outstanding investigations still out there, including investigations looking at president trump's tax records, his financial business records, emoluments having to do with his trump hotel just down the street from the white house. and so i imagine this will not be the end of democratic investigations just because you have a senate trial and the senate will vote not to convict the president. >> jeff, as adam schiff was saying, he was talking about the trauma to the united states.
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how much trauma is the united states going to be going through after the impeachment and expected acquittal? >> well, it's a painful process for everyone, and the trauma i guess will to the extent that it is trauma will show really next year once the race starts getting going, and it's really going now. there is going to be a democratic debate thursday night. and next year we'll see to the extent that this impeachment has an impact on the election, whether or not it helps the president as he has been arguing in the last few days that it will and his campaign officials have been talking about the increase in fundraising that they're seeing as well as energy on the republican base. democrats will see if it's helped them. there are certainly people on the left who believe that democrats have taken too long to get this far to impeach this president. both sides will have things that they like and don't like. and the ultimate decide other than question, richard will, be on the election in november. >> talking about the president, we are going to look into what
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the administration plans on doing and what they do do, what it says about not only this coming week but thereafter. jeff, scott, joyce, stick around. we'll talk about that later in the show. thanks. coming up, the presidential campaign trail. we have a live interview with senator bernie sanders talking about that debate. ♪oh there's no place like home for the holidays.♪ ♪for the holidays you can't beat home sweet home.♪ we go the extra mile to bring your holidays home.
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well, we are four days out from the next democratic debate. seven candidates have qualified, but an on going dispute among
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food service workers at the location of that debate, loyola marymount university in los angeles may prevent it from going forward. all seven candidates say they will not cross picket lines, standing with the workers. joining us is shaquille brewster with senator bernie sanders. shaq, i'm interested in what the senator thinks is going to be happening there. >> well, let's start with that question. let's start with the fact that we have a debate coming up next week. there is a labor dispute going on right now. you mentioned that as of now, there will be no debate. what's going on behind the scenes with that? >> i hope there will be a debate. but i do not intend to cross a picket line. i believe that workers have a right to stand up with decent wages and decent benefits. and if they are in a dispute, i will not cross that picket line. >> what conversations are happening right now? >> i think tom press is working hard to try to resolve it. he is the former secretary of
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labor. he knows a little bit about this. and i hope he does resolve it. >> you signed on to a letter encouraging the dnc to change debate qualifications. explain why you support that. >> well, i think we want as many people as possible to participate. i think that's fair. that's the right thing to do. and i think the american people and people who are going to vote in the democratic primary benefit from it. not very complicated. >> we're here in iowa. we're 50 days way from the caucus. >> southeast part of the state. and let's start -- your numbers have been improving. if you look in iowa and nationally, but we are also dealing with an impeachment that may pull you off the campaign trail. how concerned are you that the battle will stop your momentum? >> look, we have an extraordinarily strong grassroots operation here in iowa. i don't think there is any other candidate has more volunteers. we have a great organization. we are working incredibly hard. our people are knocking on tens
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and tens of thousands of dollars. tv ads are great. radio ads are great. at the end of the day, it's knocking on doors and talking to people. i think we are the capability of doing that better than any other campaign. don't tell anybody. i think we're going to win here in iowa. >> have you decided -- have you decided what you plan to do with impeachment and how you plan to vote? >> well, look, i believe that stloump be impeached. i think you have a president who is running one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of this country. i think the evidence is pretty clear. if i were in the house, i would vote for impeachment. i am going to be a juror in a sense as a member of the united states senate. i'm going to go in there with an open mind. i'm going hear what trump's defenders have to say. but if you ask me today, i think he is -- has committed treasonable -- he has committed impeachable offenses. >> any concern with how republicans are going to run this process? >> always, but we'll see what happens. do. >> you have any control over
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that? >> no. mcconnell will make those decisions. and i hope he does it in a fair way. >> last one on that. do you want to hear from witnesses? >> i think as much evidence we can hear will be beneficial to us making the best decision possible. and let me also say to my republican colleagues, obviously everybody knows this is a very political moment. this is a very political situation. i would hope that everybody, republicans and democrats can try to do our best to listen to the facts. you can dislike trump intensely, and i do. you can think he is a terrible president, and i do. that does not necessarily mean he has committed impeachable offenses. you can be a strong defender of trump, as the republicans are, and you may come to the conclusion that he has committed impeachable offenses. i hope people will take a hard look at the evidence and reach their decisions. >> let's talk about medicare for all. it's a consistent debate. i think we've been talking about medicare for all this whole primary. the nugget that keeps coming up is this idea of choice and how in your plan you eliminate
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private insurance. is there a way to still support medicare for all if you look at the other candidates? can they still be in support of medicare for all without getting rid of that? >> not in terms of what medicare for all really means. what medicare for all, underline the word all means everybody in america has health care as a human right, not a privilege. and that means we have got to have the courage finally after literally decades and decades of talking, this discussion about universal health care has gone on since teddy roosevelt. all right. it's time to understand that the function of health care in america is to provide quality care to all, not to allow the drug companies and the insurance companies last year to make $100 billion in profit. so when we talk about choice, right now there are tens and tens of millions of people. they have no choice. they can't afford to go to a doctor, or maybe they're in this network or that network. under medicare for all, we eliminate all premium, all
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copayments, all deductibles, all out-of-pocket expenses. we fund it as does every other major country on earth out of the general tax base in a progressive way. >> there is no medicare for all without getting rid of private insurance? >> look at the end of the day we have to ask ourselves why we pay for some prescription drugs ten times more than the people in canada and in europe. you're going to have to take on the greed and by the way the collusion and the price-fixing in the pharmaceutical industry, and you're going have to take on the greed of the insurance company and finally say that everybody in this country should be guaranteed health care as a human right. the truth is that medicare right now is the most popular health insurance program in this country. we expand it to include dental care, hearing aids, eyeglasses, and home health care. and then over a four-year period we go from 65 years of eligibility, down to 55, 45, 35
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and then everybody is. in. >> you need to do your town hall. we've seen candidates mayor bloomberg just release his medical records. when you said yours are coming by the end of the year, any news on that? >> yeah, it will come by the end of the year. >> thank you very much, senator sanders. >> you're welcome. >> senator sanders is going to go a couple of steps here and have his town hall here in iowa. he has been in southeast iowa having several events. you've seen other candidates here, senator warren in this area. >> i can stay with you, shaq, all afternoon and talk with you. great interview as always. thank the senator as well for his time. shaq brewster, great interview. coming up, were white hand signs flashed at the college football game where president trump attended yesterday? we'll look at the video, or was it just an everyday hand sign? ♪ we switched to tide purclean,
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military officials are launching an investigation into whether white supremacists hand signals were flashed during this weekend's nationally televised army-navy game. at question is what students from both academies did behind the sports announcer during the pregame show. at least one of the gestures resembled what's become a popular white supremacist symbol, described by the
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southern poverty law center as, quote, the thumb and forefinger joined together in a circle. the remaining three fingers splayed out behind. i want to bring in ben kesling, who has had afternoon opportunity to contact both academies. what else might it be than that? >> the west point annapolis officials say there is no way to know what that hand sign was until they find out the intent of the cadets. this is one of the things about that particular hand sign that has made it get coopted by white supremacists is that it has such common means, whether okay or there is a typical college game where you hold it up, and if somebody sees it, they punch you in the arm. those have nothing to do with white supremacy. but you also have this white power co-optation that's
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happened about 2017, 2019 it started appearing. there is no way to know what the symbol means unless you know what the person wanted to say when they were putting it up. and annapolis and west point officials are looking into that. i just found out that annapolis officials have appointed an officer to do a preliminary internal investigation, and that will be ongoing. >> has this happened before? have we seen this on air before? and what were the results? what might happen to these cadets? and what were the punishments that may have been levied before. >> well, that's the thing that's a bit surprising about this, that cadets would do it. this has happened before in the department of defense. well, not in the department of defense, but in military. so a coast guard officer falls under homeland security, but branch of the military. a coast guard officer put up a similar sign during a live tv broadcast last year and was formally reprimanded. so the military brass has known that this could be an issue or knows that it has happened in the past. so it should have been -- it
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should have been a little more forefront to people's minds. there is no way to know really what is going to happen to any of these students if there be any punishment at all. annapolis officials have said that after the investigation they're going to hold people responsible and take responsible action, but it's still so early that nobody knows even the hint behind this. >> typically, what is the response from the military in terms of military when they do find such incidents to be valid? >> the military move pretty quickly on these sorts of things. there have been instances of extremism both with showing signs of extremism or engaging in extremist activities that the military quickly cracks down on most of the time when they can substantiate it. there is a pretty famous case of a marine corps marine who was an extremist who was quickly thrown out of the marine corps and in such a way that the thcommandan
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of the marine corps said this guy is a former marine. once a marine, always a marine. and the commandant said this guy is no longer a marine. >> ben kesling, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> you bet. as the president faces impeachment, he points to two new trade deals this week in his words as huge. we'll look at the reality of those trade deals and what they mean. s and what they mean and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams, spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair.com
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that will makeout washington insiders very uncomfortable: term limits. you and i both know we need term limits, that congress shouldn't be a lifetime appointment. but members of congress, and the corporations who've bought our democracy hate term limits. too bad. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message because the only way we get universal healthcare, address climate change and make our economy more fair is to change business as usual in washington.
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welcome back. amid the impeachment fight, there are two major trade doles that are being touted by the president and his administration as momentous. the newest came friday when it was announced a phase 1 u.s./china trade deal had been reached after about a year and a half of work. the deal still has to be translated, proof read by china and then signed, but they have agreed to billions in u.s. agricultural purchases as part of this deal. changes regarding intellectual property are part of this, technology and financial services. also part of phase 1. now the u.s. updated tariffs on china in response, 25% tariffs on $250 billion in imports remain. tariffs on $120 billion in products cut to 7.5%. and plans for new tariffs set to be imposed today were scrapped. u.s. trade representative robert lighthizer separated the, quote, totally done deal.
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>> there is a translation period. there are some scrubs. this is totally done, absolutely. but can i make one point? because i think it's really important. friday was probably the most momentous day in trade history ever. >> well, he is alluding to a bpz agreement, the second one we were mentioning on the united states/mexico/canada agreement. that was reached earlier in the week. the deal is a replacement for 25-year-old nafta. it includes changes to make sure more car parts are made in north america and increase protections for intellectual property and the environment. the trump administration also made demands for workers rights and prescription drugs. a house vote on the usmca is expected on thursday. but one republican senator says the deal diminishes free trade. >> usmca is an exercise through all kinds of provisions to diminish trade. and that's why i hope republicans will reconsider this. we've historically recognized that we're all better off with
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more open markets. >> joining us now, cnbc's senior analyst and senior adviser to schroeder's north america ron insana and domencomontanara. >> the fact that the trade one deal has gon gone through, we saw a muted response on friday. but this the buildup to the agreement being announced, we saw the market rally to all new time highs. it's generally good news if you're a shareholder. whether or not it is as momentous as mr. lighthizer would suggest remains to be seen there have been other very large scale trade agreements over the course of the last 70 years that probably eclipse these two. but it's certainly a step in the right direction in terms of calming the financial waters around the world, maybe taking some of ttoof the heat off glob
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marketing. >> this is really surprising, domenico based on the other story based in the beltway that these two things actually got done. one might say should we have more crises and politics to get stuff done then? >> we talk about crises, a lot of these things that have gotten done, think about china trade and so many other things are crises of the president's own making that he has then gone and solved. i was tallying up some of them earlier today. if you think of china trade, the family separation, even the case under scrutiny for impeachment, the ukraine aid, president trump essentially created a crisis for himself by withholding that aid and eventually released that aid to alleviate what was a crisis not just with democrats coming after him, but republican senators calling him as well saying release this aid. >> so this is a question here, ron. i was at a conference earlier this week in morocco, atlantic
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dialogues. and the discussion was about multilateralism, or bilateralism or unilateralism. you take your pick, right? where is the united states at then based on these two deals that just got done? >> clearly there is a preference for bilateralism. the u.s. -- and this is part of steve bannon's abandonment of multilateralism, his desire to deconstruct the administrative state. that's part and parcel behind a lot of this thinking. when you look at these deals being cut, there is still an argument to be made that organizations like the world trade organization and nato are extremely important in helping maintain peace and prosperity. and these one-off deals, given that the trade war between the u.s. and china has really not gotten us that far with china there may be some additional intellectual property protections, there may be some marketing opens for financial services firms. but as far as the agricultural purchases you mentioned, we're probably going back to a point we would have been and maybe a
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little less than where we would have had been had there never been a trade war for selling goods to china. it needs our goods as much as it ever has. irrespective of whether or not there was a trade deal, those purchases were going take place. >> what does this mean f president's base? >> for as good as the economy has been, and it's been one of the only areas where you've seen president trump above water when it comes to his approval rating, this had a real problematic impact and has had a problematic impact on his base, on farmers in rural farmers in places like michigan, wisconsin, ohio. these are places he needs to win reelection. he won it very narrowly, by about 70,000 votes sore in just those three states of pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. and any slippage with those voters is problematic. and we're headed towards what look likes it could be a base election where you've got
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democrats and republicans targeting the kinds of voters who agree with them, and they need to juice those bases and get everybody out to the polls so any kind of lack of enthusiasm from any of those voters would be problematic for the president. >> ron, this is one of those political moments that you've seen in your decades of reporting and business and otherwise. the markets don't seem to be reacting to what's going to be happening this coming week. only the third time that we're seeing a president impeached. >> so we have nothing on andrew johnson's impeachment from a market perspective. >> right. >> there was really not the same type of market activity in the '60s than there is today. but going back to nixon and watergate, the markets were in turmoil because economic developments that had taken place. inflation was on the rise. we went off the gold standard. there were a whole host of things that happened in the earlier years of the nixon administration that were net negatives for him. during the clinton years when he was impeached at 1998, the chip was rung at full steam. the stock market was making
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all-time highs and wall street shrugged that off too. that is not exactly a big play for financial markets right now because probably wall street does not believe the president will be removed from office. if there is a trial in the senate that he would be acquitted. it doesn't mean anything for the markets necessarily. >> great perspective. ron insana, thanks for coming in on a sunday. domenico, we'll talk to you in a little bit. up next, fbi fired director james comey reveals what he is sorry for and what he is not sorry for in the wake of that big report on the russia investigation. ssia investigation. (vo) align helps to soothe your occasional digestive upsets 24/7 with a strain of bacteria you can't get anywhere else. (woman) you could say align puts the "pro" in probiotic. so where you go, the pro goes. (vo) go with align. the pros in digestive health. and try align gummies. with prebiotics and probiotics
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former fbi director james comey was admitting he was overconfident in the process used by the bureau to obtain a court-ordered wiretap of former trump campaign aide. listen to what he said. >> the fbi was accused of treason, over illegal spying, of tapping mr. trump's wires illegally, of opening an investigation without justification, of being a criminal conspiracy to defeat and unseat a president. all of that was nonsense. i think it's really important that the inspector general looked at that and that the american people, your viewers and all viewers understand that's true. but he also found things that we were never accused of, which is
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real sloppiness, and that's concerning. >> 17 significant errors in the fisa process, and you say that it was handled in a thoughtful and appropriate way. >> he's right, i was wrong. >> given the repeated error, some would say abuses of the fisa process, does attorney general barr have a point? >> no. he does not have a factual basis as the attorney general of the united states to be speculating that agents acted in bad faith. the facts just aren't there. full stop. that doesn't make it any less consequential, any less important, but that's an irresponsible statement. >> the justice department's internal watchdog found 17 inaccuracies across three surveillance application. one error included leaving out important information for the wiretapping application into carter page. the ig report found no political bias, though. meanwhile, devin nunes on fox this morning calling comey a liar and calling for a hearing with michael horowitz next week.
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>> we need to have a hearing with ig horowitz next week. the longer that this goes on, the longer it takes america to heal itself. the fisa court itself is in tremendous jeopardy. democrats lied, and now they've put the american people in tremendous danger. the judges on the fisa court are putting the american people in danger. >> yeah. >> because, look, the american people at the end of the day, we want our liberty before we're going to give up -- we're not going to give up our liberty in order to have some secret court operate to spy on political campaigns, to use our counterintelligence capabilities to do that. he has lied so many times, you would take the ig report, it would be about a thousand pages full of the cosmetic lies. >> joining us now, correspondent for reuter, senior staff for the hill scott wong, npr's lead political editor domenico
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montanaro and joyce vance. joyce, the former director apologized numerous times during this interview when he was speaking there on fox news sunday. how did you take what he said overall in terms of the validity, the content, that of which came in the ig report, that of the mueller report? >> so here's what's difficult to understand about this. you have to appreciate the fact that the fbi did make mistakes in the fisa process. some of them were sloppiness. some of them were mistakes that doppler radar wray has already indicated that he will address with seriousness. that is an important problem and it's good for doj to address that in a forthright manner. but none of those mistakes amounted to evidence of political bias or animus in the fisa process. there was proper predication for the fisa. none of this was done out of
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political animus against president president trump. and in that sense, the i.g. report gives the fbi a clean bill of health for engaging in this oversight of russia's interactions with the trump campaign's for political reasons. so devin nunes is all spun up taking this first set of facts, the fbi's failures, and conflating them with political bias, which the inspector general found after an extensive review of documents and witnesses that no political bias existed in the process. >> domenico, what legs does this political spin that joyce is talking about have? >> well, i mean look at just how much there is for everyone in this. i mean the fact that, you know, you can have devin nunes essentially say that the fisa court judges aren't doing their jobs well enough. i mean that's a really kind of stunning statement that goes even beyond this report because the report obviously doesn't address that. the report is talking about how this all began. and, you know, remember the
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mueller investigation did not exonerate president trump. you know, the spying, quote, unquote, that took place was not spying at all. it was, you know, as horowitz said, not based in political bias when they launched this investigation. of course republicans like nunes are going to take little pieces of it and say, look, 17 mistakes. christopher wray, the director of the fbi says he's got some 40 recommendations for change, and that's certainly enough for someone like president trump even though president trump is now also calling christopher wray the, quote, current fbi director. so we'll watch if anything happens on that front too. >> relevant to the conversation that happened on fox news sunday, pam bondi, who is a special adviser to president trump, spoke right after james comey in response, potentially also being considered for the president's defense. we'll see come the trial in the senate. but let me play what she said in response to james comey's interview right after he had
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spoken with chris wallace. >> that man led the fbi, and it's unbelievable. that steele dossier was central and essential to this report. it was fake. we know it was fake, and he says that his people did nothing wrong. and first of all, he was the lead leader. he was the one charged with briefing the president when in fact he was spying on the president. that guy needs a lawyer by the way. let me answer the question saying there was no bias opening the report. >> i didn't say it. that's what the inspector general said. >> john durham disagreed with that. >> jeff mason, if she is included in the president's defense team come the trial, what might that mean? pam bondi? >> well, that may have been a little bit of an audition today. the president makes decisions often based on how he thinks somebody performs on television, and ms. bondi was performing there and articulating the position that many people in the white house feel and certainly
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that the president feels. so what would it mean? i mean it would mean having somebody with her background and, you know, that person being part of the legal team. i know there's been some reporting in the last few days that the president is not sure if he wants the lead white house counsel, pat cipollone, to be the main attorney because he doesn't have a lot of experience on television, and that -- he sort of referred to that although not to the lawyer specifically last week when we were in the oval office and asked him if he wanted a long or a short trial. and there's obviously been some comments from senators like lindsey graham advocating for a short one, but the president may have a preference for a longer one and more of a show. >> scott, if you look at it, did the comey i'm sorries help or her democrats, and when you see pam bondi, that also gives you a sense of the tone of the senate trial should she represent the president. it will remind us of what happened this past week. >> yeah, and i think it all
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underscores that the president will be calling the shots. we don't know who exactly will be representing the president at this senate trial, but the president will be making the decisions here. you saw mitch mcconnell earlier this past week be deferential to the president, saying we are working in lockstep with the white house. we are coordinating every aspect of this with the president and his team. i think the one area of pushback you may see from some republican senators is having to do with the witnesses. the president and his team want to call witnesses, including hunter biden. there doesn't seem to be a real appetite among republican senators for that type of circus at mo atmosphere to play out. >> 20 seconds here, joyce. mitch mcconnell saying he's lockstep with the president. does that mean he may be suggesting who should be
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representing the president? >> you know, i don't think we know the answer to that yet. but let me say that without any sort of qualification, mcconnell's comments earlier this week that he would be in lock step with the president represent a complete dissociation from how this process should work. he is, in effect, the foreman of the jury for impeachment. he says that he's consorting with the defendant. the american people shouldn't stand for that. >> joyce, always great to have you. jeff, scott, domenico as well. go out and enjoy the weekend after you spent the hour with us. that wraps up for me this hour. i'm richard lui. coming up next on "politics nation," reverend al sharpton sits down with judiciary committee member and chair of the congressional black caucus, democratic congresswoman karen bass of california. thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer,
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good evening and welcome to "politics nation" live from chicago. tonight's lead, the final touch-ups. that's what the house judiciary committee is doing right now on the impeachment report ahead of an expected vote by the full house on wednesday. now what seems to be clear is that the house will at least try to conduct a constitutional process while the senate won't