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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  December 16, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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former republican should lead that charge. we'll keep an eye on all of that. he left at the republican party over support of the impeachment. "hardball" is up next. e imp. "hardball" is up next. \s. trump's statement in history. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris mast thew in washington. trump has brought us to this. tonight he stands at the edge of a dreaded destiny about to become only the third american president to be impeached by the u.s. house of representatives. this wednesday, the house is said to debate and vote on two articles of impeachment -- abuse of power and obstruction of congress. early this morning democrats formally presented their final case against the president. releasing their impeachment
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report, arguing that president trump has, quote, be trayed the nation by abusing his high office to enlist a foreign power in corrupting democratic election. the house is all but certain to approve those two articles, paving a way next month in the u.s. senate. chuck schuchater has delivered the democrats' opening salvo on how the trial should be conducted. in a letter to mcconnell, schumer said democrats believe strongly that this trial must be one that is fair, that considers all the relevant facts and exercise the senate's sole power of impeachment under the constitution with integrity and dignity? schumer argues that they should receive testimony from john bolton, mick mulvaney, as well as rob blare, a senior adviser to mulvaney, spell today schumer
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argueded that those four men had the mo direct contact. >> i haven't seen a single good argument about why they witnesses shouldn't testify, would they documents be produced, unless the president has something to high and his supporter want that information hidden. the president and house republicans have resisted letting all the facts come out. the president handle offered a single exculpatory bit of evidence that refutes what's in the house impeachment charges. they have not refuted them. impeachment moves forward again tomorrow in the house as the rules committee needs to set the parameters for the debate process ahead. for more i'm joined by congresswoman who -- paul ros
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rosenzweid and hydy przybyla. every time i turn on nbc, you're on. thank you, heidi. what is the stronger language as you've seen it and read it and reported it. >> i have, over 600 pages. i would say the strongest language a that these two constitutional crimes of abuse of power and obstruction of congress are the highest constitutional crimes that any president can commit and that they absolutely destroy any sense of democracy. remember, this is -- the democracy depends on the power of the people giving all of our votes to a president, that's where the power derives from. now from the bloodlines of
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monarchs, but the votes of the people. if a president is asking a foreign country to interfere, he's essential destroying that democracy. add to that he has put himself above the law. he and his team say they cannot be indicted why he's is sitting president. now they're saying they don't have to provide information to congress so that we can actually investigate this. that i think is the strongest case. at the cores of it. he is destroying our democracy and taking votes away from you and me and giving it to a foreign government. >> here's your chance, congresswoman, to say what you try of trump. i know you've been constrand by policy. great, but throughout the language of both articles is the language about pattern, who is this person? is this the person who would do something like the deal on the phone, who would set up that kind of deal, put up giuliani to
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do it, hold up arms necessary to save a country. who is that person that you're impeaching here this week? >> pattern of conduct is in both of the articles, because it is bad enough that the president is doing this and it's unfollowing in front of you with ukraine, but we know that he did this before. that's what the mueller report was about, 400 pages, saying thinks exactly what he did. >> thanks who he is. who is this human being? >> he is above the law, that he's not accountable to the american people, that he does not have to represent the interests of this nation. he is the motor vehicling gun. anybody who is looking for a smoking gun just needs to look at this president. let me tell you something, not only is he the smoking gun. he's done it before, he's doing it now, he's doing it again. that smoking gun is reloaded. whether or not it fires for the 2020 election is up to us.
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>> you know, we see this in life, a guy can get into sports, college, he handle changed. people don't change. my father used to always asked, have you ever noticed somebody who has changed? it's a brutal question. most people stay who they are all their lives. you think he deserved to be impeached. what is it about him essential. ? not what happened on a july day in a phone call, but what that represents about his being, this guy trump and why he shouldn't be president. >> on the narrow questions, i agree completely with the congresswoman, he's destructive of democracy, resistance is essentially a thumb in the face of checks and balances you can't
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go on and on. a president not taking money for his own personality benefit office his presidency. that's the emoluments clause. there are suits going on about that. it reflects in the long run up -- >> is he a crook? >> absolutely. i signed a her with 12,000 other prosecutors saying the mueller report had anyway between three and eight, depending on your view of it, instances of obstruction of justice that most of us would have taken to any jury in america and won a conviction, with it anyone other than the president of the united states year from now we'll be trying to explain it to someone. you can't say it's just a phone calls or break-in.
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it's something about the character of the person. meanwhile, there's a behind the scenes evidence to bolster an argument in a senate trial with the help of a former republican. some house democrats are pushes to including justin amash who represent the republican parties as one of the impeachment managers. you thinking is that he would reach conservative voters in a way that democrats can't. he would also provides democrats' cover from gop accusation that they're pursuing a partisan impeachment. heidi? >> reporter: as i this morning my sources close to leadership poured cold water on this. they said the speaker has plenty of qualified candidates and it would be unlikely. that said the currents around here are moving so swiftly, obvious anything could happen,
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but in 1999, there were 13 different manager. will she in the end lump him in and make that a good call? though close to mitch mcconnell are calling it a stunt. this lives it in the hands of some of the most vulnerable republicans. democrats only need two republicans to peel off and dig their feed into the ground and say we're not going to adjourn after the attorneys make their case. we want to have witnesses. so right now, you know, we're trying to talk to some of the vulnerable republicans.
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senator ron johnson said a few minutes ago, above my pay grade. lisa mur cows kiss said i'm hoping for a deand the subway elevators closed on us, so we're not getting many answers. you know how that work. let me ask you about the first question. do you think there should be witnesses in the senate? >> absolutely. there has to be. >> look, i think we have a tremendous case in front of us. the president has obstructed us every step of the way. we asked mick mulvaney to come a testify -- >> and he knows it all. >> absolutely. bolton, based on what was, is very incredible the. they are real patriots who put country over party, so i think, you know, we should make sure we have the ability to presents all these folks in the senate. let's just be clear that what
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mish mcconnell has done, but maybe a different finger in the face of our constitution and framers. >> how do you explain these people? >>,ask any american out there. how can you have the foreman of the jury, the chief juror, the person who makes all the rules for the senate trial actually say he is coordinating completely with the defendant i know you know this, but i think the american people will see through this as well. i appreciate that senator schumer has put forward this plan. we need to make sure that there's a fair trial, and that we have the ability for the american people once again to hear all the facts, including from the people who know it all. all in the loop. >> people who don't know aren't really talking. sondland han outspoken, is
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expected to change parties as a result. sources saying that congressman jeff van drew is likely to switch hi party affiliation to republican after his own internal polling showed he was unlikely to win in the democratic primary. he was one of the two democrats to votes agains recent lesion formalizing the inquiry. you know, i don't care. always somebody will flip. so what? to me the trial aspect of this, because an equivalent to me, paul, impeachment is tar and feathering. it's a community, a society saying this guy is no damn good. if that you will all you get. that's all you end up with. trump has this crazy ability to create craziness all around him. in a polarized society chet trump loves. you noe don't get justice, at least you don't get the
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perception of justice. 4. >> that's his super power. he can withstand chaos. he understands chaos in a way that normal members of society can't. >> he wallows it in. >> revels in it, i would say. it makes -- my friend george conway says he has a narcissistic personality disorder. while i'm not a psychiatrist, it seems to be the case. >> there's a student watching this, a reporter, nixon didn't shake off watergate. he knew he was guilty. he was shamed by it. he said i gave them the sword and they struck it in my with relish. clinton was the classic
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compartmentali compartmentalizers. he hundreds out with the 40% or 50 percent of people who loved him. with trump, i'm not sure it will even affect his brain, his soul, his get. how will it even leave a mark? >> reporter: chris, on inauguration day, i was standing in a rank are rain poncho on pennsylvania avenue listening to the speech. it was pouring, and the president said that the sun was coming out. i checked around to make sure i wasn't going crazy. yeah, it was raining. the difference today is we have people -- a number of them in the party who are agreeing that it's raining -- or agreeing that the sun is coming out. you saw debbie less ko in the judiciary hearing on network television say that the president didn't ask a foreign power to investigate his political rival when he did that on camera on the south lawn, and he did it in a call summary.
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so the big difference today is it's not just the character of the person that we can sit here, analyze and dissect. i'm not a psychologist, either, but i do have eyes and ears, and i do see that people are telling us things that are just not true. this is the environment that we are dealing with as news reporters. people are telling us things to our face that are not true. so the difference hopefully in the senate -- we interviewed senator toomey over the weekend and he said there shouldn't be much difference about the facts, the question is whether they rise to the level of impeachment. that should be where the debate is. if the senate is supposed to be a cooling saucer, maybe that's where things will go, is that we do have a debate about the facts. >> what a perfect answer. thank you so much, heidi
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przybyla. that was analytical, factual, and straight a reporter's at the -- >> thank you, congressbottom woman, and from the seattle, the liberal bastion. with the facts. much more ahead on this historic week of reckoning. coming up, a divided country braces for a divisive treatment, hopefully will be a real trial. lindsey graham has admitted he will acquit the president, no matter what happens. >> what i this is is best for the country is to get this thing over with. i i'm clearly made up my mind. i'm not trying to hide the fact that i have disdale for the answer saying in the process. i don't need any witnesses. >> this is "invasion of the body snatchers." plus rudy giuliani's misadventures. he tells "new yorker" i need ed
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ambassador yovanovitch out of the way. again the president today kay to rudy 'defense. stick with us. rudy 'defense. stick with us. my body is truly powerful. i have the power to lower my blood sugar and a1c. because i can still make my own insulin. and trulicity activates my body to release it like it's supposed to. trulicity is for people with type 2 diabetes. it's not insulin. i take it once a week. it starts acting in my body from the first dose.
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half the country says they want trump impeach and removed. 41% take a different position. a new quinnipiac poll shows that 45% of voters believe the president should be impeached and removed from office while 51% disagree, so a flip of the others. on capitol hill some republican senators, the future jurors in the trial in january say they
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have zero interest not only has their leader mvp mcconnell signaled he's taking his quote, cues from the president's later, like he's an actor, from the president's lawyers, but senator graham is openly and repeatedly admitting that he intends to be a biased juror by himself. >> this will come to the senate and die quickly, and i will do everything i can to make it die quickly. >> the senate has a constitutional duty in holding this trial and comprehensively evaluating the case. agree? >> no, it doesn't say that in the constitution. i am trying to give a pretty clear signal that i have made up my mind. i'm not trying to be a fair juror here. >> wow, a dramatic departure from graham who 20 years ago
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xwlofrd the country to give the impeachment process a chance. >> please give us a chance. i know what people want to do with it case. i know that many of them don't want the president to be impeached, but i've got a duty far great are than just getting to the next election. >> the "wall street journal" explained that, quote, several republican lawmakers viewed the president's dealing with ukraine as inpropose but not worthy of impeachment, and feared that opening the door to witnesses may make it harder for them to acquit them. leon panetta secretary of defense, white house chief of staff and a member of congress. thank you for joining us. let me get your view of trump. what is it about trump -- i'm
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trying to get to this, because i want our grandkids and great-grandkids to understand why this guy is in trouble and why? your thoughts about what that nature is? his nature? >> you know, i think we all know the nature of this individual that occupies the white house. he's a new york developer. he operated like a new york developer. he basically did what he had to do, took what he had to take, rejected what he wanted to reject, and basically ran that operation in a way in which it would benefit him. so he's taken that whole mode of behavior and brought that to the white house. he's not experienced in the white house. he doesn't have the largest country at interest in terms of
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what he wants to do for the country. this is solely about what the presidency does for donald trump. as a result of that, understanding that kind of mentality, that's what let him basically to, when it came to an election to say, what the hell? i'm going to ask a foreign leader to conduct an investigation of my political opponent. i don't see anything wrong with that, because that's the way he operated some new york and that's the way he's operating at president. >> so the white house, to him, the american presidency, to sit in lincoln's chair to him is just an acquisition, another power position? >> i think that's right. this is about power. it's about, you know -- he was that way when he was doing, you know, television. he was basically doing television in order to get
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ratings, so he's now in the presidency, and he's doing the presidency in a way to try to get ratings. it has very little to do with the interests of the country. i think that's what's always bothered me about president trump. you normal look to presidents of the united states who speak to what is in the national interest. what is in the interest of unifying the american people and bringing them together? what is in the interests of our children in terms of their future? those are the kinds of values that presidents used to talk about. that's not the case with president trump. this is all about him. it's about going after everyone who in any way trying to criticize him or doing anything to undermine him. this is warfare for him. it's reality tv in the oval
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office. that's the way you have to look at this president of the united states. that's what history is going to say about what's going on right now, that this is -- instead of being a serious moment in which or constitution is truly being tested, it's going to look at this moment in time as nothing but a reality tv show in which the president rejected his own behavior and a group of senate republicans basically went-lookingening with that. let's get to that. on friday president trump, mr. secretary, said he saw a political advantage to the impeachment process. >> my poll numbers, as you know, have gone through the roof. the people are disgusted. nobody's every seen anything like this. >> what about the united states senate, mr. secretary? i look at mick mcconnell. i don't think he's evil or
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anything like that. he's just usually wrong on everything, but here his 'acting pretty rough, basically saying i'm going to be the defender of this. we're going to shorten it up. i'm going to freeze it up and protect the fact that it's a 50-50 proposition, and then lindsey graham just because of me. he's coming out saying i'm not a fair juror. and it you can't get in a courtroom if you talk like that. you know? they throw you out the door. having worked on the senate side and having been a member of congress for 16 years, i have tremendous respect for that institution. i have always found, whether you agree or disagree with someone, that you try to work together to try to make sure that you're
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fulfilling your responsibility as an elected member of the united states congress. you know, i'm very disappointed that mvp mcconnell and the other republican leaders in the senate side are not standing back and saying, look, we have got to make this in every way a fair trial that looks at the truth, looks at the fact, that allows for -- this kind of evidence to be pressure d so that member ca make an independent decision. that is their responsibility that is what they are sworn to do. if they just try to kind of ram this down the throat of the country, in order for them to
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get the hell out and basically get through the election, which is obviously the political desire they all have, i think what history will say is that this is the most depressing moment in the history of the united states senate, if they allow that to take place. who's the favorite, democrats or trump, next november? who is the favorite? >> what do you mean? in your thinking, who is going to win the election? >> you mean for the election? yeah. whoa's going to win? >> i would say right now it depends on who the democrats nominate to be their candidate. if they nominate somebody who can appeal to the entire country, then i think the democrats have a good chance of
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winning in november. if they elect something who is ideological, then i think trump has a chance of winning. that's what it comes down to. thank you, mr. consider. you have served the country wells, and it's always great to have you on. up next, reporting on rudy giuliani not getting anywhere, or anybody getting in the way of hi digs up his client's dirt. all he wants is dirt on joe bid biden. back again apparently. you're watching "hardball." ppar. you're watching "hardball. steyer: i'm about to say two words
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welcome ba"hardball." an sdplosive new story in "new yorker." sheds new light on rudy giuliani. it explores his collaboration with former ukrainian prosecutor yuri yu yuri yusenko. he admits that he pushed for the removal of yovanovitch. he saw her as an obstacle in an attempt to dig up dirt. quote -- i believe i needed yovanovitch out of the way. she was going to make the
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investigations difficult for everything. i'm joined by betsy wood roveswann, and white house report for "los angeles times." eli, what is in here, in terms of trying to figure out this whoa a thing, this whoa escapade by president trump and rudy giuliani. >> it paints a picture with stunning detail what he was doing in ukraine, and how -- what he was seeking. any evidence to expos ukraine interference in the election and anything to reflight poorly on joe biden. through the reporting, the report spends a lot of time with the prosecutor and with giuliani. he doesn't just admit he wants
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the ambassador out of there. he wasn't prosecuting corruption. he's feeding julianist, and telling the reporter, i don't know if it was actually true. there's just not a lot of scruples that come across for either of them they're -- and again, what comes back is not, as you say, they weren't concerned about corruption. they wanted some dirt they could throw at the bidens, at joe biden. at the time he was basically again the front-runner and they just wanted the biggest threat to the reelection, but again, the nuance is that they didn't want a real investigation. they wanted a declaration that just like he wanted to keep it up in the air, something he do say, they're right now investigating him over in ukraine. >> giuliani exhibits an extraordinarily high level of credulity towards allegations against joe biden that any reasonable person would see as
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totally laughable. he even floats on the record to this report that somehow biden might have participated in the hack of the dnc that the russians conducted in 2016. that's totally outlandish. do you think joe biden knows anything about hacking? he's not exactly state of the art about this -- >> that's a good point. >> i just think he's not a likely suspect. over this entire period of time when the trump allies are trying to get zelensky not necessarily to open an investigation, but just to say there was an investigation, the judd department never actually asked for one. according to kurt volker never went to their counterparts in ukraine and asked them to look at the bidens or look at the 2016 alleged ukrainian
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collusion. that's because american law enforcement appears to have no reason to believe that the allegations that giuliani had been floating for months actually point to a crime. >> this president, you have a lot of investigators down in hawaii coming up with interest stuff, that he was an illegal immigrant, something that they can float up there. there's a lot of investigating over there. the governor is investigatoring this. it's all that trump ever wants -- smock. when asked about his latest trump to ukraine. he signaled that he'll continue to stand by his personal attorney. >> reporter: mr. president, how much ah giuliani shared with you about his recent trip to ukraine sfwl. >> not so much. he was the best mayor in the history of new york. he does this out of love, believe me.
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he sees what's goes on, sees what's happening, the hoax that happens when they talk about impeachment hoax who are the corruption delusion/collusion. he knows what he's doing. >> there's an endorsement. >> i think about is a minutes into your slow which heidi przybyla are saying thing you just know they're not true. the president knows what a lot of what he's saying is b.s., but they're talking about the what-if. it doesn't have to be true. he knows there's enough that will want it to be plausible. because they just need enough of a believable pretext for the president excel for this favor. why wouldn't he at least ask them to find it out. >> he knows he can win the presidency in the electoral college, without california, without new york, if he can stay
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in the low 40s, and destroy his opponent next phenomenon. >> president trump perhaps just as many any onner american figure, knows the immense value of somebody announcing an investigation into your own. the clintons said that comey announced in the final days of the campaign, that he was looking at the clippen campaign. >> i think that's the reason she lost, in the end. it shouldn't have been that close, but that's why. thank you both. with the impeachment vote looming, it looks like president trump isn't holding back his ire, aiming his attacks at nancy pelosi, jim comey, even fox news. he used to love fox. we're back after this. sed t. we're back after this.
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welcome back to "hardball." heading into a week where president trump will likely find himself becoming the third u.s. president to be impeached. he unleashed a twitter tirade this weekend. he attacked james comey, and suggesting he should spend in years in jail. the inspector general's report concluded no political bias in the russia investigation. that doesn't stop trump from claiming the exact opposite. he wrote -- there was tremendous bias. without providing any evidence, he also said that president obama knew everything about it. and he criticized fox news as well. he tweeted fox is trying so hard to be politically correct. he also went after the network that the majority of americans wait a minute him impeached.
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but it was the president's personality attack on speaker nancy pelosi and her teeth that was the most bizarre. that's coming up next. that's what we call a tease. how do you skip this baby? he's talking about nancy pelosi's teeth. nancy pelosi's teeth grandpa, can you tell me the story again? every family has their own unique story. give your family the chance to discover theirs this holiday season, with ancestry.
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on. >> i might haveself am not a lawyer. sometimes i act like one. not as often as i practiced a doctor. this was a decision that was recommended by our working together with our committee chairs, our attorneys and the rest. this is kind of a strange segment. that was house speaker nancy pelosi. last week responding to reporters' questions about the articles of impeachment. over the weekend president trump had his own explanation, because nancy's teeth were falling out of her mouth, and she didn't have time to think. well, as the video showed, there did not appear to be anything wrong with the speaker's teeth. however, if the president has been target of dental troubles
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of his own. >> let us rethink old assumptions and open our hearts and possible and possibilities. thank you. god bless you. god bless israel. god bless the palestinians and god bless the united states. >> what? united what? for more former chief communications advisor to speaker paul ryan -- i need some communications advice. maybe they both have, i don't know what. let's talk with trump. he threw the stone here. what do you make of his inability to get that last word out? what, did he have a chicklet in his mouth? >> i don't know. mine -- >> this is psycho babble time. >> he is a strange guy. >> why would he make fun of pelosi's teeth? >> he has a weird affection for nancy pelosi. he always wanted to work with
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her. he is impressed by her strong arm style of politics. so the fact that she is the one bringing hip to impeachment which we know riles him up because of his place in history, you think it really gets under his skin. he has this love hate thing going on. >> is this dancing teeth to teeth? >> sure. >> what is so strange -- sorry. i don't buy this theory. is it just a typical personal shot. >> i'm a different version of what he said. i think he is tired of getting his butt kicked by nancy pelosi. for the entire three years he has been in office, all he can do is resort to schoolyard taunts. if it was me, he would talk about the gap in my mouth. if it was you, you were too tall. this is what bullies do. he doesn't have anything to say. she is kicking his butt -- >> i guess he'd stay way from that. >> i know. >> be nice to him, not me.
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let me ask you about this inability to shake things off. you are suggesting she is going to impeach him. the house is going to impeach him this week. it's going to be on his record the rest oflis life. his prog aeny will read about i >> he claims it's a lose for democrats. she is overseeing the most popular impeachment in history. 20 points more popular than bill clinton's impeachment. a fox news poll shows 50%. the democrafact that democrats wrestle it to a draw is a loss for the president. i think you will see republicans start running away from this. maybe they won't vote against him in the senate. >> the draw goes to the champ in boxing. >> i don't think we are -- i don't think there is a championship belt on the -- >> i missed it. anyway, this morning president trump threatened to pull out of the general election debates because he believe the non-partisan commission is
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biased against -- how do you -- anyway. the president tweeted the commission on presidential debates is stacked with trump haters and never trumpers and avoid the nasty politics of this biased -- okay. argue about the commission. i don't think they are biased. >> he is doing so we will talk about it. he throws out vague threats. we talk about it. >> who would he not want to stand on that stage with half the country at least watching? who would he be afraid to share the stage with? >> i think he loves being on television. he is going to debate. he is not going to pass up the opportunity to stand in front of the american people for two hours and talk. he wants to create drama and set the terms of the debate. he wants to set the terms of what we are talking about. that's what he always does. he throws it out. we talk about it. we chase it. he walks it back. we have a debate. >> any president doesn't like being on stage with somebody lesser than them. barack obama, if you remember in 2012, struggled with mitt romney. that's the first time someone
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could really challenge him. >> this happens every time. every time a president, reagan, every time the president who is incumbent faces a challenger, they are not used to getting sassed from somebody. they always lose the first debate. >> yeah. it's times 100 with donald trump because he is the biggest egomaniac we have had in offense. it's like the normal president ego times 100. >> you are good at this. imagine somebody taken him down personally the way mitt romney did to obama. >> i think every democrat is capable in their own special way of doing that. >> you must be a progressive. >> each of the five leaders could do that. pete buttigieg, elizabeth warren, bernie sanders, joe biden, even amy klobuchar. >> you are a real hallmark card, aren't you? you want them all to like you. you are a hallmark card. thank you. good work. up next, does it make sense to re-elect a president who has been impeached?
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kevin mccarthy variant. does it make sense to relebt a guy who has been impeached, tarred and feathered? , tarred and feathered before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new?
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house republican leader kevin mccarthy was wrong when he said a president shouldn't be impeached in his first term. he is on to something. does it make sense for the country to elect, re-elect a president impeached in his first term to a second term?
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in nixon's time the desire to have him drink from office dominated the air. the clinton matter was what it was, a president's behavior and how he used his office in dishonesty. this one came to us not just as a matter of involving trump, but the craziness which makes seriousness even in the process of getting rid of him hard to am could by. half the country wants this guy gone, banished from the scene. but because he is such a lesser figure, more comic figure, it's hard to feel the tragedy that richard nixon suffered. i gave them a sword, nixon said afterward, and they stuck it in and twisted it with relish. i gave them a sword. it's hard to hear trump speak with such self-awareness, understanding of his central role in the high misconduct that has already damaged the presidential office and damage to the confidence we had so long in our self-government.
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and he will run for re-election. you betcha. as he hadn't a thing do with it. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in." >> 50% of the country want the president impeached. i was stunned. >> impeachment week on capitol hill. >> i will be voting yes on obstruction of congress. >> tonight the swing district democrats banding together as the house prepares to vote on wednesday. then what happens when impeachment gets to the senate? >> trials have witnesses. that's what trials are all about. >> the push to make republicans honor their oath to be impartial. >> if the senate republican majority refuses to discipline him through impeachment, he will be unbounded. >> plus, the house bills gumd up in the senate. the latest on the hunt for the president's tax returns.