in one generation, the united states will be a majority minority nation. >> thank you very much for being part of our coverage tonight. for listening and following with us. tonight, small stage, big issues. from impeachment. >> watergate, this is a global watergate. >> vladimir putin congratulated him saying stand fast. >> we have to to be being obsessed over impeachment. >> to taxing the wealthy to undo income inequality. >> how do you tackle taxes which they say stifles growth and investment? >> oh, they're just wrong. [ applause ] >> the candidates were ready to talk about money in the election. specifically each other's. >> the mayor just recently had a fund-raiser that was held in a

wine cave. >> if i pledge never to be in the company of a progressive democratic donor, i couldn't be up here. senator, your net worth is 100 times mine. >> and still, those off stage were not out of the picture. >> the democratic party relies on black, hispanic and asian voters, but you are the only candidate of color on the stage tonight. >> i miss kamala. i miss corey. though i think corey will be back. >> i won't be on tonight's debate stage. that's okay. i'm going to win this election anyway. >> nbc's live election 2020 of the sixth debate starts right now. ♪ >> welcome to live coverage of democratic debate number six. okay, it was not exactly a night for diversity for america's

diverse party with just one non-white candidate on stage. and incidentally, in just a little while, i will be talking with one of the candidates not on stage tonight, julian castro, and he called out the a rules that help create the petina we saw tonight. donald trump became the third president in this country trip's history to be impeached. impeachment was not a central focus of tonight's debate. instead the candidates showcased their command of the issue democrats have long hung their hat on. from f.d.r. to bill clinton, the issue that incidentally, donald trump hopes to make the center of his reelection campaign, the economy. >> the biggest problem in our economy is simple. people are not getting paid enough. >> middle class is getting killed. >> if we can encourage work made in america --

>> middle class is getting crushed. >> every time you hold something in your hand that says made in america. >> where i live, folks aren't measuring the eat kwon am i by how the dow jones is looking. >> it is the hopes and dreams of the american people >> this unemployment rate and gdp have very little relationship with people's lived experience on the ground. >> we're going to have to take him on on the economy in terms of growth as well as economic justice. >> what we need is a trade policy that stands up for workers, stands up for farmers. >> we have to make sure that we have trade agreements that are more fair. >> part of my plan is literally called move people to higher ground, because that's what we need to do. >> how do you answer top economists who say taxes of this magnitude which stifle growth and investment? >> oh, they're just wrong. [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> but tonight was not all senior civics class. in a debate that was often low

octane, the candidates did finally start to mix it up. >> the mayor just recently had a fund-raiser that was held in a wine cave full of crystals and served $900 a bottle wine. um, think about who comes to that. he had promised that every fund-raiser he would do would be open door. but this one was closed door. we made the decision many years ago that rich people in smoke-filled rooms would not pick the next president of the united states. [ applause ] billionaires and wine caves should not pick the next president of the united states. [ applause ] >> this is the problem with issuing purity tests you cannot yourself pass. [ audience reacts ] >> if i pledge, if i pledge never to be in the company of a progressive democratic donor, i couldn't be up here. senator, your net worth is 100

times mine. >> i do not sell access to my time. i don't do call time, millionaires and billionaires. >> as of when, senator? >> i do not -- >> come here to listen to this argument. i came here to make a case for progress, and i have never even been to a wine cave. i've been to the wind cave in south dakota, which i suggest you go to. >> okay, i admit i came to list into the argument. some candidates did try to chime in and refocus on the party's debate of the real target. >> seems to me we have to ask ourselves three questions straight up and honestly. who has the best chance, most likely chance at defeating donald trump. who is the one who is most likely to do that. >> this primary comes down to some simple questions. who has the best ideas, the best experience. mostly, who can beat donald trump and how will she do it. >> we need to go after this guy.

he's a different breed of cat and we need to beat him. and we need to talk about prosperity. i spent 25 years building a business. we're going to have to take him on on the economy, not have these kinds of conversations and tear each other down, but actually go after this corrupt president and beat him on the economy where he thinks he's king and where, in fact, he's a fraud and a failure. >> all right. so unpack tonight's debate. i want to welcome my panel. corinne jean pierre, move.org, msnbc contributor. david jolly who has since left the republican party and is an msnbc political contributor. jonathan alter, columnist for the daily beast and msnbc political analyst. jason johnson, politics editor the root.com and msnbc contributor. and in washington, rick tyler, republican strategist and co-founder of foundry strategies. he's also an msnbc political analyst. a whole lot of msnbc people turned up here tonight. i want to start ladies first.

so, the question at the end here was who can beat donald trump. for the people watching the debate, that is what they want to see. i'll throw up the numbers right now. donald trump just pretty much stays where he is, kind of no matter who he's running against. he's in the low 40s, no matter what. and they sort of lever. you can see where they are, you know, it's pretty close. i mean, the others. did anyone stand out to you, corinne, tonight, as demonstrating based on the way that they behaved tonight that they are the person who is best equipped to take on donald trump? >> so, we've seen many head to head polls that showed many of the folks on stage who can beat donald trump. so that on paper and, you know, the data shows that that is possible. i think what is missing is more of a contrast from the candidates on stage with donald trump. like, why is he, indeed, a threat? why does next year matter? why is the choice that people are going to make matter? and i think that is -- i get it, we do the contrast with each other, this is a primary.

but that is not -- it seems to always be missing at these debates. >> you and i watched the debate together. full disclosure. in the chilly green room. you were making the comment about going after each other. you had buttigieg and warren hit each other. you had amy klobuchar came to play. >> she topped everybody. buttigieg, i got something for you, i got something for you. >> do you think that was helpful demonstrating -- >> when i think about buttigieg and warren, one of the reasons they've been hurting in the polls is because they're attacking each other. we have to remember the things people loved about those campaigns was the uplifting kind of component of the campaigns. like her plans, you know, how he's seen as the future of the party. i think it's a turnoff. and i get it. they're probably having internal numbers. they're looking at how each other is affecting their own numbers. they have to win iowa. they're looking at new hampshire. >> right. >> this is a different time that we're in.

and i don't think that that is what you need to be -- i think you have to take it to donald trump. i mean, for goodness sake, he was impeached this week. that's history, 24 hours ago he was impeached. and that was not even really brought up. it wasn't mentioned. that is historical, the third president in history. we've had 45 presidents. >> yeah. >> and we barely heard that. that was an easy in, an easy way to make that contrast with him. >> did you agree -- jason, one of the things i think a lot of commentary on the previous debates was they were sometimes a bit -- you know what i mean? they were so nice. you didn't get anything out of them. do you think that anybody -- do you agree with corinne hitting each other doesn't really change anything and it doesn't bring you to the contrast that you need which is the one against donald trump? oh, he doesn't -- >> dr. seuss -- >> complete disagree. >> that's okay. >> you brought that smoke tonight. that's what you need to do. >> she was throwing hands all night. >> the numbers, though. i don't think it's going to move

her numbers. >> her donors are going to be excited. and a whole lot of people who didn't know who she was are going to pay attention to her. buttigieg is going home and is going to worry about wine caves. that's going to stick to him like binders stuck to mitt romney. those attacks, even if it ends up being a joke and a meme, that kind of aggression helps you when you're trying to differentiate yourself and trying to make distinction in the primary. everybody has a year to attack donald trump. right now is about choosing me over klobuchar or buttigieg or castro or biden or something like that. i actually think it is beneficial for these candidates to be aggressive with each other within these environments. [ laughter ] >> there was no diversity on the stage tonight. we're going to bring it into the discussion. >> corinne gets -- >> i need my rebuttal, 45 seconds. who watched this debate? >> people who like moving backgrounds.

>> through the ears. i mean, we're days before christmas. nobody's watching. and not only that, i think no one's going to pay attention until after the holidays in january. we're, what, less than 50 days to iowa. >> right. >> i would be surprised if anybody watched this debate. i don't think it will move the numbers all that much. yes, klobuchar was certainly trending on twitter. good for her. she did a great job. we have to give her her props. >> she made me want a wine cave. >> only the diehards. >> i see a die hard right at the end here. do you think that it changes anything? you know, one of the things that has not happened in previous debates is people have been very reluctant to go after mayor pete. he's gotten through almost every debate completely unscathed. this was the first time i've seen him really engaged. and amy klobuchar sort of did it in the last debate. she really went in tonight. do you think it changed anything for her or for him? >> i think it may have changed something because tonight was a big night for joe biden.

i see it as what i call an exhale debate. every time he debated before this, you're holding your breath. my wife compared it to like, is the kid on the bike who is learning to ride, is he going to ride it into the bushes? you know? [ laughter ] tonight he was, he was good. >> yeah, he was good. >> and remember, his support is very solid and very static. he's not losing any ground. even when he has a bad debate, he doesn't have -- lose any ground. his supporters all over the country are exhaling. this guy can be the nominee. he can do it. he's not too old. that's huge in the context of this race. now, he can always blow it in the next debate, but for now he's doing pretty well. and if he stays on this course, he finishes second, he doesn't have to win iowa because expectations are down for him now. so if he can finish second or even third in iowa, just get a ticket out of there, ticket to

super tuesday, he's on track to stay the front runner. klobuchar had a great night. her basic argument is the same as biden's. it's electability. she's the one who can beat trump, and she's way behind biden. so until something happens to biden -- >> right. >> -- nothing all that great is going to happen to klobuchar. >> let's talk about that moderate lane, david. as our former republican, you come from a more pugelistic party. we saw more of it tonight. give us your read on this moderate lane fight. >> sure. >> in order for amy klobuchar to get anywhere, she has to take away from pete buttiegieg's number or she has to take away from biden. it's harder to take biden because that has a lot of black voters in it. the two of them share a lane. did either of them benefit or were they hurt by the back and forth between klobuchar and buttigieg? >> i think broad brush, we have seven great candidates on stage tonight. probably any of them could beat

donald trump in the right environment and you've got other great candidates that weren't on the stage tonight. democrats should always be happy on debate night because you have an opportunity to show the values of your party and contrast to the values of donald trump. we saw that from all the candidates. i think the back and forth was because iowa is breathing down the neck of some of these candidates and for klobuchar, pete and elizabeth warren, for some of them it's must-win because maybe you can't compete in new hampshire or south carolina, right? i think it's important as we look at the so-called moderate lane to not conflate that fully with electability. because it is a progressive party. even if you put joe biden and elizabeth warren next to each other, they're both going in the same direction. it's a progressive direction. biden is embracing incrementalism more than the bold ideas of an elizabeth warren. the moment i found most intriguing was pretty early in the debate when the question was how do you run against donald trump in a good economy? corinne and i were talking. i've been deliberately spending

time in some of these five states where 100,000 voters or 70,000 voters flipped the last election. the micro region allie regional economies. the government is staying out of their business. if you talk about health care, everybody would like better health care and education. if it means you're going to raise my taxes or come interfere with my decisions, it's a challenge for democrats. how do you convince those constituencies to change course? >> right. >> it is an not that the democrats' message is wrong or too progressive or not moderate enough. it's just you're in an environment where things are moving along okay. and most democrats had to speak to the inequality within the economy. >> um-hmm. >> which is a hard macro argument to make. some of the racial disparity in the economy is also a hard macro argument to make. it's a challenge for probably the ultimate opportunity for democratic candidates. >> let me get you in here. you can come at it from the

republican strategist p.o.v. who if you saw anyone on the stage can make that argument in iowa or pennsylvania? you're somebody who has a third job driving uber. you may not think the economy is so great. did any of those folks up there tonight make an argument you think could win? >> andrew yang. let me say something, joy. i may be a little bit of a debbie downer here. i was fairly discouraged after this debate. when you consider that president trump's approval rating currently at 42%, his high water mark is 46%. he's never broken 50%. he was just impeached. he just talked about debbie dingell's husband don dingell who served michigan as being in hell. and then you have this whole impeachment thing going on.

and what you would think is that, oh, my gosh, let's look at this debate. isn't it amazing we have these great candidates and all of them can decisively beat donald trump. but that's not where we're at. every one of these candidates you just showed in the poll is losing in a head to head. that's fairly remarkable and fairly discouraging. somebody should be beating donald trump, and currently as i'm looking at the numbers here, nobody is beating donald trump. and i do think it has to do with what david jolly was just talking about, how do you beat -- how do you beat the president in an economy that's fairly robust. sure, are some people hurting, not doing well as you said, joy? absolutely. the other thing i see in this debate today was sort of this argument between the past and the future. donald trump is decidedly the past. everything he talks about is the past. the way he speaks about women is the past. the way he speaks about minorities is the past. his jobs are all about the past. coal jobs are all about the past. the person who is talking most

about the future was actually andrew -- was andrew yang. and i saw this division -- i think bernie sanders was really fading in this campaign. he has a lot of old ideas. and elizabeth warren has a lot of old ideas. she says, i have a plan, but we used to call that central planning. that's something that went out with the bolshevicz. andrew yang keeps talking about the future. i thought klobuchar did a brilliant job taking apart buttigieg. i thought buttigieg did a brilliant job pointing out the hypocrisy of elizabeth warren. so overall, i'd have to give it to klobuchar and yang as sort of the new generation, and that biden survived this campaign and did fairly well, and he's the front runner so, hey, that's a win. >> all right. we've gotten everybody's take. we're just getting started, however, with our coverage of the democratic presidential debate.

in just a few minutes, i'm going to talk to a presidential candidate julian castro who did not make a debate stage but has interesting thoughts. when we come back, the candidates square off over the issues of age and gender. >> senator warren, you would be the oldest president ever inaugurated. i'd like you to weigh in as well. >> i'd also be the youngest woman ever inaugurated. [ cheers and applause ]

if elected, you would turn 82 at the end of your first term. you'd be the oldest president in american history. >> like winston churchill. >> american history.

>> american history. i was joking. that was a joke. i appreciate it. you don't have a sense of humor. >> i have a great sense of humor. or they wouldn't have put me on the stage otherwise. are you willing to commit tonight to running for a second term if you're elected next november? >> i'm not willing to commit one way or the other. i'm not even elected one term. let's see where we are. >> thank you for asking a woman this question. [ cheers and applause ] >> first of all, we have not had enough women in our government. when i was on trevor noah's show once, i explained how in the history of the senate there was something like 2000 men and only 50 women in the whole history. and he said, if a night club had numbers that bad, they would shut it down. >> senator warren, you would be the oldest president ever inaugurated. i'd like you to weigh in as well. >> i'd also be the youngest woman ever inaugurated. [ cheers and applause ]

>> democratic candidates on the debate stage tonight took advantage of the smaller cast size to engage each other in direct and sometimes contentious fashion. over policy, but also age and experience. mayor pete buttigieg who surged in the polls in iowa and who has been largely unscathed in previous debates, seemed to be the most alluring target tonight. both for elizabeth warren, who he's been tangling with of late and amy klobuchar who used tonight's debate to make a decisive move for the moderate lane. joining me from iowa joel payne, former director of paid media for hillary for america. what did you make of the back and forth between senator klobuchar and the mayor, mayor pete tonight? >> joy, i thought it was really fascinating because i actually thought both gave a very spirited defense of, you know, their version of history. i think jason made this point earlier. i think he's probably right that the wine cave remark probably sticks.

actually as someone who used to work for john edwards, i kind of had trauma going back to the $400 haircut of john edwards about 12 years ago. i think some folks in south bend and chicago are probably going to be a little concerned about that, having some long-term staying power. but i actually thought that mayor pete on the spot was very quick on his feet and handled that rather well. i thought just kind of broadly, i thought that joe biden had his best night and i thought he won this debate. one, because of when he won it. he won it in the first hour where i imagine -- i don't work for nielsen, but i imagine most people were watching and most people were engaged, so i think that's one. two, while that whole discussion of fund-raiser was going on an hour or two, joe biden was nowhere to be seen. it was actually interesting because biden could just kind of sit by and allow buttigieg and klobuchar or warren fight it out. joe biden happily takes a step back. i thought joe biden had the best night of anybody. >> winning just by staying out of the way.

i do want to play one of these back and forths between amy klobuchar who tried to make these points in a couple debates. but i feel like she landed them tonight and we can talk more about biden afterwards. let's listen to klobuchar v. buttigieg. >> i want to be president of the united states. and the point is we should have someone heading up this ticket that has actually won. >> senator, i know that if you just go by vote totals, maybe what goes on in my city seems small to you. if you want to talk about the capacity to win, try putting together a coalition to bring you back to office with 80% of the vote as a gay dude in mike pence's indiana. [ applause ] >> again, i would -- mayor, if you had won in indiana, that would be one thing. you tried, and you lost by 20 points. >> that kind of ended with bernie sanders took over from there. but, you know, it is a relevant point. because part of what the

electorate who is sort of playing arm chair quarterback at home and trying to figure out who can beat donald trump is they're thinking about electability. they're both midwestern candidates. ari berman tweeted out the last time amy klobuchar ran for reelection she got 1.5 million votes. mayor pete was elected with 8500 votes. is it a stylistic thing of who people think is electable based on the way they present themselves? >> i really don't. you know, you pointed out that tweet. i saw another tweet from david pluff who referenced a state senator from illinois who got beat 2-1 by bobby rush before he was elected president. i think the point there is political talent is political talent. they all come from different backgrounds and they all have different narratives that introduce them to the political world. so i don't think that argument sticks against mayor pete.

i think probably the thing you'd be more concerned about if you're mayor pete, or again, the push back that he had to deal with around the fund-raisers and the wine caves, and also just the fact that he's in a very crowded space in the middle now. the three candidates who have done the best in this environment, this impeachment environment, biden, buttigieg and klobuchar. and i think it's no accident that a lot of the action tonight were around those three candidates. so buttigieg is existing in a crowded space now. >> absolutely. we put polyp earlier, i think it's pretty clear it was an outlier poll. we hadn't seen any polling before that -- corinne pointed out and maybe the audience didn't hear her. there is a sense of foreboding when they look at donald trump's numbers not moving. if you look at his number, it stays around 42, 43, no matter who he's running against. the only thing that changes is the democrat. setting aside the usa today poll that is different, every cnbc poll shows them being able to beat trump.

in an economy from the surface looks good, makes sense to a voter who is exhausted by donald trump and wants a safe space to -- a safe place to go to? >> well, the exhaustion vote probably goes to joe biden because that probably means you don't want another fight. i heard on some of your earlier telecast there was a talk of do you want a revolution or do you just want someone who is going to push for incrementalism and maybe move in a little slower more deliberate fashion. if you're that voter, it's probably joe biden. i think that that's the exhaustion vote. so, you know, democrats, you know, still have a lot of choices here and i think there's a lot of routes that they can get to beat donald trump. i think there is this conventional wisdom you can beat trump one way. i don't think that's the case. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders can beat them from the left. >> the question i have for you -- i didn't mean to cut you

off -- do you think that's the reason that the voters are -- seem to be flocking toward only white candidates, to be blunt? we're going to talk with julian castro later. there does seem to be something in common with every one of the top five voters, at least in the polls, seem to be leaning away from candidates of color. do you think that is a safety vote or because we're not polling enough people of color? >> i think that probably is a bit of safety. again, it's not just white voters, by the way. it's african-american voters who are in large droves in a place like south carolina supporting joe biden. it's because donald trump is an existential threat to so many people, particularly people of color in this country. i think that they have been convinced -- i'm not convinced, but i think they have been convinced you can only beat donald trump a certain way. i actually think it's more likely you beat donald trump if you excite and you rev up your base as opposed to playing it close to the vest and getting somebody who can pull in moderates and independents. i actually think revving up the base and getting the base excited is the better way to win this time. >> absolutely.

#john keri. that's when people fled to the center. that should workout for them. joel, thank you very much. really appreciate it. thank you. and coming up, i will talk with presidential candidate julian castro on this very point. he was noticeably absent tonight. as the lack of diversity on the debate stage drew some sharp observations.

it's both an honor and disappointment to be the lone

candidate of color on stage tonight. i miss kamala, i miss corey. although i think corey will be back. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was entrepreneur andrew yang addressing the fact he was the only candidate of color on the stage tonight. another candidate of color who was missing from tonight's stage and who yang also failed to mention is former hud secretary julian castro. he joins me now by phone. secretary castro, thank you so much for being here tonight. oh, do we have secretary castro? >> can you hear me? >> now i got you, yes, i can hear you, absolutely. >> there you go. good to be with you. >> thanks for being here. i wanted to talk to you tonight. you were not on the stage and able to address questions -- andrew yang wound up being the guy who took a lot of those questions. i want to play what he said -- one of the things he said about being the only person of color on the stage tonight. take a listen. >> i grew up the son of

immigrants, and i had many racial epithets used against me. black and latino have something working against them more than words. they have numbers. for latinos it's 12%. if you're a black woman you're 320% more likely to die from complications in childbirth. these are the numbers that define race in our country. and the question is why am i the lone candidate of color on this stage? fewer than 5% of americans donate to political campaigns. you know what you need to donate to political campaigns? disposable income. >> those are important points to be made. and the fact that you weren't there, i think for a lot of people, meant that the debate lacked something. but the points were made because andrew yang was there. what do you think was missing from tonight given the fact that those points did actually get on stage? >> you know, i think na andrew -- obviously he is his

own experience and he does represent some diversity on stage. and i think he did address some important points. i think there are other things, though, that, that, you know, should have been said that could be said both about this process, but maybe more importantly about the lives of americans who are grappling with, you know, just trying to make sure that they can provide for their families. i'll give you a great example of that. i mean, there was a lot of discussion about wine caves tonight in the debate, and for good reason, because it focused on how our campaigns too oftentimes are over influenced by big money. at the same time, you know, one of the things i'm concerned about are the farm workers who are working those vineyards that produce the wine. and, you know, overwhelmingly immigrant, overwhelmingly brown. and for decades they have not been treated like other workers

in this country with decent wages and decent working conditions. so there are things that, you know, i do think we lose when you don't have that representation on the stage. >> and do you, do you blame the dnc for constructing a system where candidates like yourself, candidates like kamala harris really can't necessarily thrive under the rules? you saw senator harris, although she is a statewide elected official, not able to financially stay in. andrew yang making the point people of color can't afford to give money. should the dnc ultimately change all of the rules of entry? >> there's no question they're going to have to go back and evaluate these thresholds that were put in place because one thing you see is that folks can basically buy their way onto the debate stage. it's not that hard to rack up contributions up to 200,000.

you need donors, if you can pay for facebook ads and ask people to give a dollar, become a unique new contributor to the campaign. it's also not very hard to pump tens of millions of dollars into the des moines tv market in cedar rapids and manchester, new hampshire, and really artificially lift up your polling numbers right around when you need to to hit the threshold for those debates. if you have those resources. and then you have the other part of it which is that, yeah, too oftentimes, big money does influence our elections and i think that was a very good conversation that senator warren had with mayor buttigieg. so they do have to go back, and i think they will go back -- there is enough pressure on them to go back and evaluate those, as well as the point that i made about our nominating process and the order of the states. i don't think that a iowa and new hampshire should go first. not because there is anything wrong with the people there, but because they don't reflect the

diversity of our country or of our party. >> lastly before i let you go, are you worried people of color, black and brown folks will tune out of the election if we do -- if we are looking at a ticket that doesn't have a person of color on it potentially? >> of course, i'm worried about that. the last time we won was 2012, and the time before that was 2008. and it was barack obama who assembled a coalition of people of diverse backgrounds, working class people, people in different parts of the country that racked up over 300 electoral votes in a very convincing victory twice. so i would just say to everybody out there that thinks that there is' a safe bet gravitating in one direction because of that, actually, sometimes what you think is a safe bet is a riskier bet. i think that's the case in 2020 >> julian castro, thank you very much. really appreciate you calling in tonight be. thank you. >> thanks, joy.

>> thank you very much. all right, let me throw it to the panel, throw it out there. saw julian castro make a point anyone could do that, and he wasn't there. >> this is off broadway play. he's missed two debates but has managed to keep himself in public conversation. he had the #julian debates that was going on today. the guys at skid row, he's looking at tunnels in the country, people are smuggled in one way or another. he's bringing up important points. obviously he doesn't have much chance of becoming the nominee. i do think this. this is something we've been talking about throughout this time. the democratic party needs new leadership. >> yeah. >> and he if he doesn't end up being the nominee, i hope he decides he's going to run for perez's position because somebody running this party needs to be bringing up these issues or they will not win nationally. >> the party can make these changes. i do not understand why a state like colorado isn't the first state or a state like -- by the way, sorry, new york is the most diverse state. >> a or georgia. >> georgia would be a good one.

>> why not change it? >> i was surprised that did not happen this go around. there was a lot of conversation the last cycle. i think you hear the conversation every cycle, as clearly the demographics are changing. and it doesn't. and i just don't understand that. look, what julian castro did there is show representation matters. >> absolutely. >> what he just said, the farm workers and how they're overwhelmingly brown people, that was such a brilliant break down of such a bigger issue. >> and they're in california. >> right. and when you're talking about the wine cave, whatever that is. i thought that was really brilliant. i think be he made another point besides making sure it's not iowa and new hampshire any more, not that there is anything wrong with the people, it's just not diverse and doesn't represent the party. also that the ticket has to be diverse. you made that point. >> it is really strange to me -- >> we have to have a diverse ticket. have to. >> people think the safe bet is the bet that looks like 2004 instead of -- a ticket that

looks like '04 instead of '08. >> there is going to be a diverse ticket. joe biden will pick stacey abrams or kamala harris. that's a given or maybe. julian castro will have a diverse ticket. elizabeth warren will pick andrew gillum or somebody else. you're not going to have an all-white ticket this year. they get it enough to prevent -- >> will tom perez still be the dnc chair? will he get to be dnc chair again? >> after the convention, the nominee -- as for the primaries, you don't want to give up the small states at the beginning too quickly. i think the best solution is to have south carolina, nevada, iowa, new hampshire on the same day. >> even south carolina, i think you're not getting the same kind of -- >> the problem is if you go to a big state at the beginning, then they just campaign airport terminal to television studio to airport terminal.

there's no retail politics. they don't have to meet voters. i don't want that. >> in colorado -- >> there is math that you can -- there's math that you can layout, picking a place like georgia. georgia has both. you have regional areas, you have rural areas. you have one metropolitan area and it's not that expensive. it's not like you're going to ohio where you have media markets. >> we have to pay for this. we're going to make everybody talk in the break. thank you so much. coming up 24 hours later how the candidates are responding to the impeachment of donald trump. we'll be right back.

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the my account app makes today's xfinity customer service simple, easy, awesome. not my thing. the president left the house with no choice, and i think a lot of us are watching this process, watching washington go through the motions and not expecting much but a fore gone

conclusion when it gets to the senate. we cannot give into that sense of helplessness because that's what they want. it is up to us in 2020. this is our chance to refuse to be taken in by the helplessness, to refuse and reject the cynicism. that is what this presidential election is about. >> donald trump became the third president in u.s. history to be impeached this week but even with that historic moment, impeachment was not exactly a hot topic this evening in the debates. let's play one moment when it did come up. this is elizabeth warren talking about impeachment. here she is. >> we need a candidate for president who can draw the sharpest distinction between the corruption of the trump administration and a democrat who is willing to get out and fight not for the wealthy and well connected but to fight for everyone else. that's why i'm in this race. >> you know, david, you have impeachment numbers where donald trump, people who want him to be

impeached. it's about half of the country which is more than wanted either bill clinton or richard nixon to be impeached and yet it didn't seem to be what was motivating the day after this debate. >> look, the issue of impeachment, and nancy pelosi has articulated this about the solemn constitutional ability to do what's right. it's not about the politics and i think that has been the democrat's message this weekend and previously. if there are politics about it, it's less about 2020, and more about demonstrating to the 2018 constituency, the blue wave who turned out who said we need a check on an unchained donald trump. it was saying to that constituenty, the democrats are going to be the check, we are going to honor what we were told to do and hold the president accountable. the democrats are the adults in the room while you have a reckless president. that is more kind of brand management if you will going into 2020 but impeachment won't be the issue.

when we talked about these constituencies in these states that you've got to flip, pennsylvania and wisconsin, and so forth, it's not going to be around russia and ukraine and impeachment, and i think yang and every other candidate was sort of speaking to that. >> the democrats are going to have to do two things at once. they're going to have to appeal to the voters that is alarmed by donald trump and the fact that he gets his ideas from putin directly, putin tells him something, he believes it, and making a broader economic argument, an argument why they should be president instead. >> they can't just, you know, impeach the president and walk away. they're going to have to actually go back into their districts, into their states and talk about what just happened, talk about why he's existential threat, why he's a big threat. that's going to be very important. also the bread and butter issues, how do you talk about the economy, how do you talk about health care which is a real issue for people, tends to be the number one issue for many groups. it is a messaging thing that democrats are going to have to

do going into 2020. >> it's not the easiest. >> they don't juggle very well. i don't think there's any voter out there whose vote is going to be flipped by impeachment. from the standpoint, the base is like you got to show us something. this satisfies the democratic base, they have a semblance of backbone. i think the impact going forward is how much this affects senate races in 2020 because that's something that the democrats need to be very supportive of. >> not only that, but senators are running for if the. >> this is a dynamic environment with the trump administration and what is the environment in november of 2020. elections are decided based on the contrast within that environment. is there an economic challenge in 2020. is there a national security challenge. does trump do something that totally disrupts the stage that allows an elizabeth warren or joe biden to be the next president of the united states. >> and i think you'll be surprised who can make the

strongest argument in these states. careen jean pierre. our coverage continues for you after the break. our coverage continues for you after the break.

we're continuing our special live coverage of tonight's democratic debate as we cross into friday morning here on the east coast. just about 24 hours after we were last in this studio talking about the impeachment of the president. yes, there was that for abuse of power, obstruction of congress, in the house of representatives, and make no mistake, impeachment was of course front and center in tonight's debate. >> it was a constitution necessity for the house to act as it did, and you know, trump's response