i can reach out, see, come here. >> hey. >> and that's because joy's on the show and any second after i do that i'll say hello to all of you from the headquarters here in new york. high noon in the east, just about 9:00 a.m. in the west. welcome to weekends with alex witt and my special friend joy. new poll on what the public wants to an invitation that could land the president in an unprecedented situation. fresh predictions whoon lion wh ahead. the president rages at a christian magazine after it gave him a stinging rebuke. the first daughter on defense when asked about impeachment. and a train derails into the potomac river. pictures right there. we'll get to that. right now in washington, d.c. and all the unfolding impeachment drama, history, in fact, put on hold for a number of reasons as both sides engage in a battle over a senate trial. joining me right now, once again, am joy's joy reed.

let's get into this here because you were talking about the christian and evangelical support before the end of your show there and you had the christian today op-ed writers writing saying -- describing trump's behavior as grossly immoral. >> yeah. >> but then you look at the headlines, joy, all the support for this president. is there any sort of a straight line answer as to why ev evangelicals still support this president? >> if you look at the public religion research numbers, it's overwhelming support. it's been between 80% and 90% support among white evangelical christians. it's important to parse it out because nonwhite evangelicals don't have that support for president trump. when you look at the reason why, it comes down to judges. you've got a man that does not profess fob a christian. he talks about them and not us when he talks about christians. he doesn't invoke any kind of belief, he doesn't pray for forgiveness and that sort of thing. but he's delivering them the judges and the courts.

and for a lot of white evangelical christians going back to roe versus wade and other rulings that prevented christian schools from getting tax breaks if they were segregated, a lot of them feel the skrorts been againcourts ha them for generations and they can push back on the social change as they see as negative. >> talk about negative. the comments the president made about debbie dingell's late husband, come on, the trump's mean streak spares no one living or dead. this according to the "new york times." it says it sort of speaks to his impulse towards what the time calls nastiness. >> yeah. >> so evangelicals, doesn't that give some of those supporters pause? >> one would think. there were a few groans in the room when he said it because, by the way, he said it in michigan. first of all -- >> and cheers, though. >> and some cheers. but just as a political matter, this is an enormously popular man, john dingell who passed away just this year. his wife is grieving, suffering her first christmas without her

husband. you can see when she is on television she's still shaken by her husband's death. to be so cruel to a woman, a widow, because you're angry about a vote that she made along with 230 people and to be so vicious in a state where he's popular that you need to win. remember, he barely won michigan, he won it by 10,000 votes. he needs that state. and to alienate, does he not think there will be ads showing this horribly cruel moment? of course there will. >> and lindsey graham is calling him out. come on. >> he's got to stop. between that and republicans likening him to jesus as someone who grew up in the church, that is shocking to liken him to being from god or of god or god. i think this is starting to peeling off in the edges and the margins some evangelicals who say this has gone too far. that we shouldn't be worshipping this man just for judges. >> let's move to impeachment and listen to what the president responded when queried about all of this by our colleague kristen

welker. >> yeah. >> what does it feel like to be the third president in u.s. history to be impeached? >> well, i don't feel like i'm being impeached because it's a hoax, it's a setup, it's a horrible thing they did. >> like, what do you make of that? >> doesn't feel like he's being impeached? if he doesn't, what does that even say? >> first of all, it doesn't matter what it feels like, man, you're impeached. once the house votes, the constitution says you're impeached, it's on your record, it's done. >> right. >> there's nothing can he do about that. i think the sense of futility of it that he couldn't stop it and use his wiles and insults and couldn't use twitter and he can't bully speaker pelosi the way he bullies republicans. he has koud cowed an entire poll party. this is the reaganite party that has been cowed not just by donald trump, but by the kremlin. they have caused republicans to be more pro russia and less sure that russia is an adversary, to think of them as an ally, to use

russian help to elect a president, to have many this monarchist view of the presidency, all of this stuff is shocking. and what trump has done to auck ord subordinate these men and women of the republican party has been shocking. but impeachment is something he couldn't stop and for all his own power and own sort of monarchial power, he couldn't stop it. think he's angry. >> look at how this is going to be viewed potentially in history. it hasn't gotten to the senate yet. but the fact is impeachment will be forever associated with donald trump. how does history look back on this. >> it's interesting because with bill clinton impeachment had the asterisk on it because he was so popular. he had 63 to 66% approval. most of the public saw it as partisan and a silly reason to impeach a president. he lied to federal investigators and republicans would say this was all about lying. >> but the reasons for which he lied. >> he lied about a sexual affair and whether or not the kind of sex he had with monica lewinsky was sex.

that's gross, most people don't want to think about that so they wrote awe off the impeachment of bill clinton as a partisan interest. especially when newt grin grip w gingrich was doing the same thing. nixon didn't even let it get to a full house vote. >> there's an argument that you made that richard nixon knew what it would do to the country and he rose to the dignity afforded that office and said i'm not going to divide my country. >> his ending speech when he resigned was a statesman-like speech is. donald trump is more like jackson. it was racial and about race. donald trump trump is more alon lines. >> what do you make the nancy pelosi and the strategy to withhold the articles of impeachment from the senate? >> i think it's smart is. lauren stride made the argument on our show a couple months ago that she might want to consider it. the fact that she's considered it means she's a chess player. she will go down in history as one of the most powerful

speakers, same rey burnrayburn she plays this game better than donald trump does. >> the timing of this, imagine if the senate is in the middle of an impeachment at that point, what does that look like? >> what would happen with bill clinton. >> he gave a state of the union in the midst of his impeachment in 1999. what he did was the smart thing to do was he ignored it. he said the state of the union is strong and gave a dignified rank and file normal state of the union. i can't imagine trump doing that. i think he'll get up there and complain and do what he always does. he'll go through his bill of particulars how everyone is mean to him and the republicans will applaud and i think most of the country will be sort of shocked and caught off guard. >> i'm going to applaud. thanks for sticking around. >> always great to talk to you. >> all of you can see her as well are, watch joy on am joy right here on msnbc. now to the new reaction

today from two house democrats as the standoff between the two chambers of congress intensifies. first in the house speaker nancy pelosi is holding impeachment in limbo saying that she has anyone to tension of sending articles to the senate until the process is clearly laid out. in the senate, deadlocked between the democratic and republican leaders feuding over what they think the trial of donald trump should look like. >> nancy is not fearful of this process. she is fearful of some of the things that's come from the lips of mitch mcconnell when he admitted very, very clear that he is not interested in having a fair trial. he's interested in rigging a system. >> it's going to be important if the president wants to get this behind him, he needs to tell mitch mcconnell to sit down with chuck schumer and they need to work together on what's fair so the process will be transparent and so the american public will feel well served throughout this entire process.

>> this is speaker pelosi less than 48 hours after she gaveled in the votes to impeach the president now inviting him, as we mentioned, to deliver the state of union address in early february. meanwhile, the president in mar-a-lago that the hour for the holiday break after signing a $1.4 trillion spending package overnight averting a government shutdown. let's go to hans nichols traveling with the president in west balm beach. i can guarantee it's warmer where you are than it is here. you've got congress back in session not until january 7th. is there a sense that this impeachment battle is percolating? do you make any sense of that? >> reporter: well, the president didn't directly address it last night, and that, alex, is something different. usually the president will try to find a way, especially in front of what seems to be a friendly eyes. now last night it was an official military audience, but he didn't directly engage on the impeachment subject matter. what he did was a victory lap on

the pentagon defense spending. there are two spending bills that the president signed. he did the one for the overall government. he did that one up in the air on air force one without much fanfare. and the other one he did in front of all those troops in joint base andrews clearly wanting to foot stomp and celebrate both the launch of the space force but what he says is a lot of funding and the numbers bear this out, $738 billion for next year for the defense department. alex. >> okay. look, hans, the president used to talk a lot about calling witnesses. is he coming around at all to mitch mcconnell's strategy of a speedy trial and acquittal? >> reporter: so the last official word we have on this is the president in the oval late last week or this week i should say, where he said he agrees with mitch mcconnell, right? and mitch mcconnell has always been on the short trial strategy, on the short trial camp. now, there is some reporting out there, not confirmed by nbc news, but the president still likes the idea of having a lot

of witnesses, having -- having a big trial for complete and total exoneration. we don't know where the president ultimately is going to come down on this. we do know that when he's in mar-a-lago he tends to reach out and solicit a lot of opinions from a lot of friends. and everyone has a little bit of advice to give the president. so monitor his twitter feed. he has something -- an event here at 5:00 p.m. where he will be talking to a friendly audience pay the group of yuck conservatives gathered around here, the president put it on his schedule. we'll see if he uses that opportunity to frame the impeachment debate going forward really for the next couple days. alex. >> you mentioned the 1 pount $4 trillion spending bill that secures the government being funded through september of next year. can you tell me all that's in it? not all but some of the highlights? >> reporter: a lot of planes, a lot of tanks. there's 22 billion additional defense spending. there's money for opioid abuse, also bunch of other pots of money. look, the president and the paid family leave.

the president, when you're working with the democratic congress, ultimately they got to a deal and this was steve manu chen's deal that he cut. it's easy to get to a top line deal if both sides are spending a lot. the real explainers are the deficit hawks. those that worry about the side of the debt and worry about detectives to gdp ratios and servicing that debt. but when you keep spending like this, you can see how the president got to yes with speaker pelosi because he gave in on 12 weeks paid maternity leave as well, and he gave -- and he gave in on some other issues. but he did get a lot of spending for a defense. 22 billion over last year, which was not a small year. i think the first defense budget that the president had was around 703 billion, and now we're at 738. so this is year on year they are spending a lot. president mentioned aircraft carriers, submarines, a whole host -- cruisers. a whole host of new weapons systems for the pentagon. >> and then there's that space

force but we'll save this conversation for another time. thank you so much from west palm beach florida. ivanka trump on her father's mood after impeachment. plus the surprising argument the white house is considering and whether it's a gift for the president. ring and whether it's a gift for the president. 1 in 5 people you meet wear dentures.

yeah. that many! but right now, is not the time to talk about it. so when you're ready, search 'my denture care'. poligrip and polident. fixed. fresh. and just between us. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in.

an update now on a controversy at last weekend's army/navy game. they say cadets and midshipman were not flashing a racist hand symbol that looks like something

done by white supremacists. they were playing a game. they say they're disappointed with those cadets and they are being disciplined for their actions. back to politics. new today first daughter white house senior adviser ivanka trump talking about the president's move after that historic impeachment vote. >> he's energized, as are 63 million plus voters who elected him to office. this is historic, as you note, in many ways. including the fact that it is the first purely partisan impeachment. there can be anger, anger at the opportunity cost to the america americans who we're all here serving and what could have gotten done. angry at the waste of time. angry at the collateral damage. angry -- but it's still energizing. >> joining me now, the reporter

from mother jones and john harwood. welcome to you both. john, i'm curious you reaction to what ivanka had to say about that. it seems like she's putting this in a perfectly positive spin. >> ivanka's comments are ridiculous on a number of levels. first of all, it's not energizing for the president. the president's clearly upset and agitated about what's happened to him. second, the idea that impeachment has somehow prevented him from doing the work of the american people is also ridiculous. the president is somebody who's made pretty clear that he's not concerned or animated about substantive issues, he's concerned about things that gratify himself and that cast him in a goo goode light ad lig him in certain ways. the idea that ivanka is asserting that this is a president who's faithfully serving the american people and

is energized to so even more because he's now been impeached, it doesn't pass the laugh test. >> but let's give ivanka the benefit of the doubt and if it is energizing this president, what would be fueling it? would it be the unwavering support of republicans? would it be the split -- pretty even poll numbers? what do you think? >> look, think the way that the president honestly appears energized, to me, is through anger. i think that, you know, the more, you know, he brushes off impeachment and den greats. mo denigrates it, the more it's getting under his skin. there's an easy way to look at this. his twitter feet, he started going off deb dingell in michigan and her deceased husband in the is not the tweets and the talk of someone who's energized to, you know, move forward on big policy issues. this is someone who's getting petty and nasty because they feel like they're under a lot of scrutiny, which they are.

>> so the impeachment, it appears to be something of a stalemate right now, both sides absolutely dug into their positions. but are we any closer to getting answers about the timing and the big picture scope of the senate proceedings? >> i haven't seen anything clear on that, to be honest. but i do expect that it will move. i think we're sort of in this weird gray area where people are trying to hold out their positions and that's causing a lot of confusion. you know, there's this sort of talk, which i honestly think is not going to go anywhere about, you know, withholding the articles and not sending them over. i would be really surprised if that held up for much longer at all. obviously we're in the middle of the holidays, so give a few days there. but it does not make sense strategically for democrats to hold on to those, you know, that gives a lot of ammunition to republicans to say what they're saying, things like these, you know, that democrats are too embarrassed to send these over, they can't defend them, things like that. those are strong talking points. so i do expect the stalemate to

eventually break in the coming days or at least weaken and see those move over to the senate and see a trial in january. >> but in the meantime, who does have more to gain or lose from this delay, john? >> i think democrats probably have a little bit to gain. i disagree with pema to say the case is weak. i think the case is very strong. but this is not going to be a long term strategy for democrats. first of all, withholding it further ath stat further ath tats president trump becau ago tats president tru agitates president trump. he will not get a favorable vote. think democrats are trying extend the time that the president is stewing over this. and, two, see if they can

extract a little more favorable conditions from republicans in terms of how the trial is going to be conducted and how long it takes. nancy pelosi wants this to have the maximum impact on the american people and a quick vote to acquit the president doesn't do that. but i think it looks too cute for democrats if they -- if they say, oh, well we're never going to transmit those articles and we're just going to withhold them. it looks like they're playing games. and i think that is what would ultimately be the strongest talking point for republicans and i think it's why nancy pelosi will not indefinitely withhold them. >> i'm going to ask our legal team whether or not they could constitutionally do that. i could get your reaction to this new poll, it shows the u.s. economy earned its highest rating, set of 6% of economics in the u.s. today is very good. that is up from last year, the

uptick from 67%. first off, your reaction to the numbers and, secondly, how much of a bomb is this with the economy when it comes to voting? regardless of the president's what some might classify as sprawling misconduct. >> well, first of all there are it is striking that those numbers are as positive as they are, especially since economic growth in 2019 is going to turn out to have been slower than in 2018. it will be slower in 2020 than it is in 2019. so it's striking numbers, maybe some of that reflects the -- simply the durability of this economic recovery and some of it reflects the fact that we've now called a pause, the president's called a pause in the trade war. obviously it is good for any incumbent president to have a stronger economy rather than a weaker one when he or she runs for re-election. however, are the economy is not the hinge point of our politics

right now. hinge point of our politics is a culture war and that involves race, gender, religion, and all those sorts of things. and that's what the president is appealing to, the culture war is the foundation of his political appeal and strong economy makes that case easier to prosecute but it's not determinative. >> quickly to you, pema, does this give democrats something to worry about, the strong economy? >> yeah, i think that it is a little bit, you know, i think in past elections we have seen the economy play a really big role in deciding who wins an election. i think we saw latest democratic debate this week and i think you saw the response to those strong numbers in a way that i think is pretty effective, which is to say, sure, gdp is good, sure the, you know, the numbers if you're wealthy investor in wall street are good. but what about everyday people? how do they feel? do they think the economy is working for them? when you talk to democratic polsters, those are the numbers they're polling out.

those numbers are a lot weaker. did the tax cuts help you? is this economy working for you, the average american? and so i think that's where you're going to see the democrats push back on this economic narrative. >> no question. the question i think a lot of people will be asking themselves over this next year. happy holidays to you both. as elizabeth warren holds a town hall in iowa this hour, surprise poll is suggest how the democratic front runners might fair against donald trump. a visit to michigan next. ir ag. a visit to michigan next. as a cio, you want to move your business forward.

but when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls... you can never seem to get anywhere. that's why dell technologies created unified workspace, powered by vmware. ♪ a revolutionary solution that lets you deploy, manage, support and secure all your devices from the cloud. so you can stop going in circles, and start moving forward.

the impeachment trial in the senate in limbo this weekend as house speaker nancy pelosi is withholding the articles in an attempt to negotiate the terms of the senate trial, including the ability to call witnesses. in order to move forward with the next steps, pelosi has to hand over the articles and name the impeachment managers who will make the case in the senate. >> we cannot name managers until we see what the process is on the senate side. so far we haven't seen anything that looks fair to us. >> i admit, i'm not sure what leverage there is in refraining from sending us something we do not want. >> michigan congressman is

joining me right now, he's the chief deputy whip of the house caucus. thanks for joining me. can you tell us what nancy pelosi wants to get out of withholding the impeachment articles and do you think this it is an effective strategy to get there and who do you think will blink first? >> well, first of all, what she needs and what we all need, not just the house but the country, is some clarity as to how senator mcconnell intends to conduct this trial. he has been quite candid that he is not unbiased, that he has a bias in this case, and that causes additional concern that he would, perhaps, simply run through an acquittal without taking any evidence, without hearing testimony, without even examining any of the constitutional questions. >> so there is -- >> we have a right to know. >> so there is some clarity, basically, he wants zero witnesses, as opposed to the president who wants to call witnesses. for what purpose i guess remains questionable, whether it be effective for him or whether it would just be a circus.

but do you think this is effective for nancy pelosi? >> i do. i think anyone who underestimates nancy pelosi's ability to navigate a difficult political situation hasn't been paying much attention. she's been absolutely masterful in this process, this is just i think another example of that. she knows that we have to get clarity from senator mcconnell, one of the ways to do that is to put some pressure -- look, senator mcconnell's comments have been kind of preposterous in the wake of all of this. we're not afraid at all to take these facts to trial. we just want to make sure that the facts themselves are placed in evidence. and there's no indication right now that he's going to do anything other than to gavel in, move for acquit will and motal that's not acceptable. that's not what the president wants. we may disagree on how the public and the senate will interpret the facts. but i think what the president seems to want is i trial tha tr

examines the facts and has witnesses. i think that would be good for the country in order for to us have the clarity from this. having a trial that's not a joke is really important. and right now mitch mcconnell seems to want to just have a sham trial and the speaker does not. and i don't think the country does either. >> is there way that you think republicans can gain the upper hand by having these articles withheld? >> i don't know that the republicans or the democrats gain an upper hand. i think we have to threat play out. let it play out. i think there's been an overinterpretation of how this is working. we impeach the president of the united states. the idea that he hasn't been impeached say preposterous negotiation. we are now awaiting clarity from the senate so we can prepare the case that the house will present. what senator mcconnell either is ignoring or is trying to hide is

we have to have a idea of how this case will be structured so we can prepare managers and prepare a case that's going to be put forward. we can't do that nel provides so until he provides some clarity. i think he'll have to relent. i think the point is that he has to tell the american people how he intends do this job. so far, it doesn't seem like he's taking it very seriously. and he should. >> do democrats have any idea of which, if any, senate republicans might cross the line in favor of impeachment? >> yeah, i think it's hard to get ahead of that. i think a lot of this does have to do with how the case is presented. but i do think that there are senators, republican senators, that are going to have the same sort of thoughts that many of us have had. and that's the question how will history judge us in this moment? specifically how will our

grandchildren judge us? the case is compelling. anyone who says it's not just is trying to rationalize the president's behavior. the case is compelling. the president has operated well outside his authority, has abused his power. and the obstruction case is really a strong one. it's the president himself who has ordered his subordinates to ignore subpoenas. that's -- that's as clear as it can be. and so i think these senators are going to have to think not only about the long term history, the legacy that they leave, but the near-term history. do they want to create a precedent that says that it's okay for a president of the united states to completely ignore legitimate requests for information, to completely ignore subpoenas from congress and get away with it? if they believe that that's okay, that that's okay not for judge this president, but for any future president, then, you

know, think they're going to have some real explaining to do. i don't think many of them want to make that case. i don't think many of them want to defend that position. >> congressman, i want to take a look at a new poll in michigan in which it shows the president is ahead by an average of 6 percentage points. it's hypothetical matchups there. do you think impeachment is actually helping the president's re-election campaign and, if so, will it stand the next of time over the next 10 1/2 months until voters go to the polls? >> i think the difficulty with polling right now is you have -- i don't know how many -- a dozen candidates that are legitimate kan candidates on the democratic cite sid side. it's hard to have a race when democrats have choices to make. think it's early. i think this will be close in michigan. even though we know the president won in 2016, he won by 10,704 votes. it's going to be razor thin, it

always is going back to the '80s. michigan has always been a close race, a close state. but i think ultimately people are going to judge this president based on the totality of his record against a single candidate, not the hopes and wishes of who we might have, but a single candidate. i think it will be close. i think ultimately it will be determined by those people who are in the middle of the spectrum, not on the left or the right who are going to measure this president based on what he's done. fact that he came into michigan and in a crass and crude and i think despicable way insalulted ledge and in our state, john dingell, i don't think this plays well for people who might be conservative but don't want to see this crass and frankly ignorant president continue to behave in a way that's embarrassing to our country. >> thank you so much for your time. happy holidays. have a good one. >> thanks, alex, you too. >> thank you. coming up next, the "christianity today" call for president trump's removal from

office. i'm going to talk to one evangelical leader who says that call was out of line. plus, what would it take for the majority of evangelicals to abandon the president? >> a lot of my conservative friends continue to support him for those reasons saying we don't like his behavior, we don't like his morals, but he's doing these good things. they're doing the balancing thing. and it's my judgment in the last couple weeks that that balancing no longer works. balancing no longer works. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems.

the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. the most common side effect is nausea. ♪ do you recall, not long ago ♪ we would walk on the sidewalk ♪ ♪ all around the wind blows ♪ we would only hold on to let go ♪ ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we need someone to lean on ♪ blow a kiss into the sun ♪ we needed somebody to lean on ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ all we need is someone to lean on ♪ creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster

and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in.

(danny) 12 hours? 20 dogs?asy. where's your belly rubs? after a day of chasing dogs you shouldn't have to chase down payments. (vo) send invoices and accept payments to get paid twice as fast. (danny) it's time to get yours! (vo) quickbooks. backing you.

here we're going to go out in the world and tell people they should support the pro life cause because it's the righteous and moral and good thing to do and at the same time it's like we're blinking or looking the other way when our president is doing things that are not merely unko unconstitutional but blatantly immoral. how can we have credibility on the issues we find so important? >> he's defending his view that president trump should be removed from office. shortly after his editorial was posted, the president's more prominent evangelical allies quickly closed ranks loudly condemning that editorial. joining me right now, president and ceo of the family leader, that's a christian conservative organization. bob, welcome to you, sir. let's get right to what mark galley said. in good conscious he feels that his president has abandoned principles that he holds deer

and he believes evangelical christians should hold dear. do you understand why he feels that way? >> i think he offers a false dichotomy. it's one that americans wrestle with too often. you have to be in the pro trump ditch or the anti-trump ditch. we believe there's a better path. that's to look higher and think bigger even than president trump. and so when he does things that are good, we're fine to cheer him on and to celebrate and thank him for doing things that are good. but if he goes outside the bounds, i've been very consistent of holding him to account or being a voice of accountability when he does that. i think for christians, people of faith, we can walk and chew gum at the same time and it allows to us preserve our testimony. >> but at the ballot box, sir, i mean, you talk about the pro trump camp and the anti-trump, i believe you called them ditches, but what would you do at the ballot box? would you hold him accountable there? >> well, you have choices at that point. because, yes, we believe

character matters, we believe statesmanship matters, but we also believe policy matters. and so, yeah, we want to have a christian states maman or perso that represents well, but we want to advance righteous policy at the same tighme. we're looking at someone who would move the embassy to jerusalem, who would preserve religious liberty, put isis on the run, have a soaring economy. there's a lot of things there, but it doesn't have to be an either or, it can be a yes and. so that's what we do, that's how we address the president. >> so there's a lot of yes and here. are you suggesting that policy for evangelicals outweighs character? >> well, i think what you're seeing across america is when you take a look at options, i'm here in iowa and we have all kinds of candidates crisscrossing our state and they're basically campaigning on

infantaside, socialism, things that aren't american foundation. that's why in michigan where now trump leads all the candidates by six percentage points. people are seeing at the end of the day you're going to have two very flawed individuals, president trump and whoever the democrat happens to be with two completely different visions for america. and i think it's what drives a lot of people, they're interested in what is the vision for america, what's the policy for america moving forward? we'd love to have, as i said before, a statesmanship and the executive on the policy. but that's where it comes down to choices. sometimes choices are hard, but we still have to choose. >> is there a democrat -- i'm not asking for you personally, sir, is but there a democrat that you hear buzz about within the evangelical community that you operate who is getting some traction? >> you know, we just don't see that. matter of fact, i invited the top seven democrats to our annual leadership summit four years ago, i believe we had ten republican candidates show up

and it was a one-on-one interview so we can basically discuss their world view and how that would impact their policy. we invited the seven top democrat candidates and all of them turned us down about coming to the leadership summit. and the signal that sends to us is that not only may they not be in favor of our policies, but they really don't even want to hear from us. that becomes an issue. so some people say how could you vote for president trump, president trump will at least listen to us and he will act on the policy. on the other side we don't even get people to say that they would listen to us. >> well, maybe that will change in the next 10 1/2 months before election day. let me talk about here one georgia congressman who framed his support for president trump during the impeachment hearings this week. let's take a listen to him. >> pontius pilate afforded more rights to jesus than the democrats have afforded this president and this process. >> with regard to that comparison, was that

appropriate? >> well, no. i don't believe those type of things are appropriate. i think what it does, it just confuses people all the more. i think what it is, is to say the president does deserve to phase haye face his accuser. he does deserve to have a trial before he's convicted by the media or anybody else. and america, even if i were to get a parking ticket or some other violation, i have the opportunity to represent my side before they determine me guilty. and so that's what i think it is even with the "christianity today." we've rushed to a judgment, we've forced america into one of two ditches, which seems to be the popular thing to do today. you're either all in or you're all against president trump. that's why i believe we can think bigger and we can look higher even than the president and we can expect more. >> what would it take, sir, for evangelical christians to break with the president? is there a line that were he to

cross it they would withdraw support? and shouldn't the president elevate the conversation and not send it into this ditch that you're describing? >> well, sure. and we encourage the president to elevate the conversation all the time. what would it take? that's a hypothetical for -- to say you would lose evangelical support. the big thing -- and you know this in america, we have the greatest system on earth but it does force choices. what choices do we have? so what would that hypothetical line be? i'm not sure what it would be. but i'm sure there are lines that we'd say, you know, that's just it, we can't go there anymore. >> so you say that the president has listened to you. regardless of what actually happens, he's listened to you. you just said that you've asked him to elevate the conversation. have you seen any effect of those comments and the discussions you've had, has the president elevated the conversation? particularly when you think back about the conversation with john

dingell and someone who may be looking up from -- he was implying hell. >> sure. and i think, you know, there's a good -- there's a good example with john dingell. we've been vocal about it, others have been vocal about it, lindsey graham have been vocal about it of saying that's not appropriate. thas th that doesn't bring anybody to a higher ground. the other thing you need to do, when you do elect a president, it's not just electing a president, whether it be donald trump or hillary clinton, it's who do they place around them? people like mike pence or mike pompeo or rick perry or carson or kellyanne conway or sarah sanders, there becomes a team that comes around that president as well. so we also take a look at what team will be around that person. i can tell you right now from the faith console or the others that he's placed rey round haro is getting good counsel. >> thank you for the conversation. i appreciate it.

marry christmas and happy holidays. >> good bless. my panel responds to this conversation we've just had. also jeff flake calling on senators to put country over party, but will they listen? that's next. country over rtpay, but will they listen? that's next. ♪ work so hard ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat.

creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in.

a bit more now on "christianity today" calling for the removal of the president in that op-ed in a decision now. we have danielle moody mills and co-host of a podcast. and rick tyler, msnbc political analyst joining me. danielle, we'll go to you first on your reaction to what we just heard there from bob vander plaats, and also the question when i asked him if there was a democrat that they could potentially get behind, if there's any scuttlebutt about that, people talking about a democrat. he said here's the deal, we've asked the top seven democrats to come speak to us and they've all declined is. that on the democrats? should they be reaching out to evangelicals too? >> honestly i don't see the point to reaching out to evangelicals because they only care about what thing, which is stopping a woman from being able to have a bodily autonomy. that's what they care about. they don't care that the president of the united states is a racist. they don't care that he's a zina

phobe. they don't kbcare about the this that he's said about grabbing women. we just care about roe v wade get reverse dollars. there's no reason to sit down with evangelicals about anything. and the question that you ask, alex, with regard so to is there anything that the president could do that he would lose such evangelicals from and there is nothing. there's nothing that he could do, frankly, and obviously, that they would then turn their backs on him. as long as they can reverse roe v. wade, they're okay. >> rick, i know that he originally backed ted cruz in the 2016 election. you worked on cruz' payne campaign. do you know him and what do you make of his comments i've kno? >> i've known him for ten years. we rode in his pickup truck from one end of iowa to the other. i know him very well.

he's an honorable man and honest man. i'm glad to hear him say he calls out the president when the president misbehaves. unfortunately the rest of us don't hear that. look, i'll call. political evangelical movement, because evangelicals are a very large group and many of them are lapsed evangelicals, the same way you have lapsed catholics for donald trump. i'm not sure they're kaeni agre i have to disagree, i've been to a lot of bob's events and they do listen and they're very respectful and they want to hear other points of view. they may not agree with them, but there's a lot of things, the pro life movement and the pro -- or let me just be respectful, the pro choice movement, together can do more to reduce the number of abortions. and i don't know anybody who wants more abortions, everybody

wants less abortions. so if that's the goal of both sides, there's a lot of common ground there. there's a lot of common ground on a lot of issues. and we can't be, as bob described them as ditches, but we can't be on both sides. we can't just take a side. we have to -- the whole american -- i'll tell you we're on the press. i precipice here. i'm saying let's find out what we agree on and work together on those issues and see what we can get. >> let me ask you about the campaign rally on wednesday when the president said this about the late congressman john dingell. for anyone who's not heard it. here it is. >> debbie dingell, that's a real beauty. so she calls me up like eight months ago. her husband was there a long time. but i didn't give him the "b" treatment. i didn't give him the "c" or the

dmt "d." i could have. i gave him the a-plus treatment. they she calls me up, it's the nicing inoffest thing that's happened. john wore so thrilled. he's looking down, he would be so thrilled. thank you so much, sir. i said, that's okay, don't worry about it. maybe he's looking up, i don't know. [ laughter ] >> i mean, danielle, when it comes to this president, is this -- is. bottom for his supporters, do you think? we heard all the laughter there, which i don't know how to categorize that. >> there is no bottom for them. he's talking ill of a man that served his country, who just recently passed. this is debbie dingell's first christmas without her husband and this is what the president of the united states is doing at a rally? and you hear the people laughing. i just -- it makes -- it really hurts my heart, honestly, to think that this is where the

republican party is and this is what they're proud of. and frankly this is the cross that they're willing to die on with this president who is clearly immoral and just has no dignity whatsoever and no respect for anyone. >> you hear, rick, the president talking like that, calling debbie dingell a real beauty. hearing the audience laugh. why is the allegiance to this president so strong? or, undying loyalty? why so strong? >> it's really sort of unimaginable. i mean, that conversation would have been held closely and in confidence and in confidential and the idea that he would go on national television in a rally and describe that conversation and then the contents of what he just said, i've just run out of words to describe the president. i've said them all and they seem meaningless now, despicable, disgusting, classless, it's all of those things. >> do you think that some republicans were angry about those comments and they should be angry about them?

>> they should be angry and outraged about them. but let's separate this out for a bit, because that behavior is immoral and disgusting and it's not worthy of a leader. it's not impeachable. but what president trump did do was impeachable and he's been impeached for it. and so we can say, like bob said, we can have choices, but this choice sis a bad choice an i hope we can recover from it. >> nick's telling me in my ear i have to go because it's late. happy holidays, guys. the ups and downs of 2019. who took some hits and who's in the best position going into 2020? farce the best position going into 2020 farc do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back?

about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks, improve breathing, and can lower oral steroid use. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. haven't you missed enough? ask an asthma specialist about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in. fred would do anything for his daughter! get in fred! even if it means being the back half of a unicorn. fear not fred! the front half washed his shirt with gain detergent. that's the scent that puts the giddy in giddy up!

ahhh. the irresistible scent of gain. for a scent with even more giddy up, try gain scent blast in detergent, fabric softener and scent beads. [ drathis holiday... ahhhhh!!! -ahhhhh!!! a distant friend returns... elliott. you came back! and while lots of things have changed... wooooah! -woah! it's called the internet. some things haven't. get ready for a reunion 3 million light years in the making. woohoo! -yeah!

good day, everyone, from msnbc headquarters here in new york, welcome to weekends with alex witt. we begin in washington and the escalating tensions surrounding the articles of impeachment. democrats and nancy pelosi using a stall tactic holding the articles back from the senate. meanwhile, looking for a predetermined outcome but nonetheless he is calling foul with new today democrats with blunted defense of the house speaker and her approach. >> nancy is not fearful of this process. she is fearful of some of the things that's come from the lips of mitch mcconnell when he admitted very, very clear that he's not interested in having a

fair trial, he's interested in rigging a system. >> she has been so skillful over the last few weeks and months. she is at the absolute top of her game. i think her skillfulness level is that, quite frankly, of lyndon johnson or franklin roosevelt in their prime. to watch this impeachment happen and her completely take away the idea that we were obsessed with impeachment because we passed the trade deal, we passed an appropriations bill, both of those were bipartisan, kudos to her because she's done a phenomenal job. >> it's going to be important if the president wants to get this behind him, he needs to tell mitch mcconnell to sit down with chuck schumer and they need to work together on what's fair so the process will be transparent and so the american public will feel well served throughout this entire process. >> from the impeachment to the fight for 2020, we're covering

it for you right now with the team of reporters and analysts. let's go first to hans nichols. hans is following the president in florida for the holidays. there's vaughn hillyard. you stand by, my friend. hans, there's new insight into the president's mood following the historical impeachment vote. what's the latest on that? >> reporter: we saw the president trying to focus on the defense spending bill. he signed the overall spending bill on air force one with little fanfare. but it's clear that he wants to focus the country's attention on what he's doing for the military, draping himself yesterday, flanked by soldiers, clearly a message that he wanted to drive. interestingly, the president didn't mention impeachment on camera last night. now later on on twitter he got back into his twitter mode and he said that this is the democrats disgrace and continuing to put forth this line that he thinks this is a political winner for the republican party. and when you look at the fundraising that's happened at least the month of november where the parties are to date, republicans have an advantage on fund raising.

there's some evidence out there that this is motivating republican voters or at least republican donors. alex. >> okay. hans nichols, thank you so much from west palm beach. we'll see you again next hour. meantime, janing me, congressional reporting at "politico." welcome to you. we've been talking about this impasse running the senate trial proceedings, that includes nancy pelosi still so far refusing to send the articles of impeachment over to the senate. i know that you sat down with her for an interview this week where she downplayed this move. what did she say? >> so what the speaker has said that is that she's not planning to hold on to these articles for an extended period of time. what she's doing is waiting to see exactly what process the senate is going to be laying out here. this is her final power move. she's been carefully chorio graphing th choreographying this and take each careful measured step in

this march towards impeachment. now pelosi is saying we're taking the one last piece of lever ram we ha leverage we have and that's transmipting it to t transmitting it to the senate. >> did she give you a sense of what she wants to see happen, what she finds acceptable, and if she doesn't reach that ba ram m der ro ber rom ter, what would she do? >> that's been a struggle on everyone on capitol hill trying to read her mood and figure out what's going on. when she made this decision thursday night -- wednesday night after the house passed impeachment, reporters were shocked. she completely stunned capitol hill with this move. and even 24 hours later at her press conference she would not say exactly what constitutes a fair trial. so this is a huge mystery to house democrats who also didn't really know that she was going to be doing this. but even to her colleagues over in the senate who are looking to

make sure they have a fair process over there, it's -- we're kind of waiting to see what shakes out here. this is -- this is another move where pelosi has not -- she's playing the cards close to her chest. she's not disclosing exactly what her strategy is, but i've been covering her for a long time and we know that she has a strategy here. >> oh, yeah, absolutely. can you give me a sense of what this week amounted to for nancy pelosi and her caucus? >> i mean, this is a legacy defining moment for pelosi. she wants to be known for the affordable care act. she wants to be known for the legislative muscling that she did through president obama's entire tenure. she wants to be known as the strategic whip counter, arm twister that she has demonstrated that she is. but, instead, now her legacy is en2009ed with president trump's. every viral moment that she's had this year, whether it's strolling out of the oval office with the sunglasses and the jacket or the photo that went viral of her finger wagging at trump in the middle of this meeting, i mean, every part of

her most powerful moments this year have been wrapped in with trump. that includes the night of impeachment when there was a member of her caucus who appeared to shout yay celebrating after the vote and she stared them down and made this gesture that, again, another viral moment. >> yeah. >> and she's become decades into her political career, an icon on the left. it's in part because she has gone after trump so aggressively, not showing any daylight between her party and the republicans here, they just took such a strong stance here. so we just have seen, you know, this is, as i said before, this is her power move. this is her trying to control the process and the one final step that she has before it goes over to the senate and it's out of her hands. and then that's it, i mean, the house is done with impeachment. >> yeah. can you give me a sense of the scene on february 4th with the president having accepted her offer to deliver the state of the union? he said yes and look at the timing of that. the senate could be in the middle of an impeachment trial. >> right. it's going to be an extraordinary moment.

the president will be getting up speaking to the entire congress. he's going to be speaking to his prosecutors, he's going to be speaking to his jury. this could be happening while the senate trial is still going on. which i think is likely now that we've had this slight delay here. so it's just going to be an absolutely remarkable moment. i don't think there's going to be a lot of legislative happening in the house in february. i think 2020 presidential campaign is going to be essentially consuming all of the oxygen in washington and beyond. so i think this is going to be a very impeachment-focused speech. i'm sure his advisers would like him to focus on infrastructure, focus on laying out some additional policy goals for 2020. so it will depend on which trump shows up at the capital that day. but i think we'll hear a lot from him just trying to give his own defense as the senate is making -- you know, hearing the case from the house prosecutors at the time. >> thank you for that. let's get to the other big headline we're following this hour, the 2020 democrats out on the campaign trail today as the

first vote in the primary season now just 44 days away with the candidates focusing their energy in the early primary states. rece recent entry deval patrick is campaigning. many candidates like elizabeth warren are in iowa, the senator's currently holding a town hall in north liberty, iowa. and about 90 minutes to the south, former vice president joe biden is talking to the voters. senator cory booker is in sioux center, iowa, make the first of three campaign appearances today in the hawkeye state. amy klobuchar making her way through three cities today as well. certainly the candidate out in force. it's the first weekend after the historic impeachment vote in the house. joining me now, alley vitaly in iowa and vaughn hillyard. we'll go ladies first and begin with you, ali. i know you're following the campaign. there's a town hall today, she will have a challenge campaigning and then balancing

time for an impeachment trial in the senate. i mean, how is impeachment affecting 2020? >> well, alex, you mentioned that balancing act and that's going to be the reality here. i know that impeachment has sort of loomed over this race thus far, but now you have five senators who are still running for president who are going to have to physically juggle between being in early states to meet with voters and make their pitch but then also being in washington do their day jobs. and of course that just shifts the focus, because out here on the campaign trail these candidates across the board aren't running on impeachment. even tom steyer who launched need to impeach a few years ago, that's not his central messaging point. instead, the eye out here, the "i" word out here on the campaign trail isn't impeachment, it's the issues. listen to how elizabeth warren is turning things back to her central messaging point here today. >> whatever issue brought you here today, gun safety, right? the cost of prescription drugs,

climate, whatever issue gets you up in the morning, if there is a decision to be made in washington, i guarantee it's been influenced by money. >> and, alex, we say this a lot but i think it's worth reminding in a dozen or so questions that we just heard elizabeth warren take here in iowa from voters, none of them were about impeachment. that's not to say that trump is not coming up, though. instead, it's questions about the concern over the way in which he's changed things in washington and changed politics across the board. there was a lot of concern about the way that he attacks and maligns people. and i know that we're used to that from him, but i was really interested in one voter here actually pointing out that the attack he made against debbie dingell and her late husband, voters here really responding to that in a way that i know we're used to the president attacking people, but it took me by surprise that that's something that voters koh would specifically voice here to senator warren on stage as they were asking her questions. >> it was pretty appalling. i think a lot of country is

stunned by it. thank you so much from north liberty, iowa. let's go to you have vaughn. you're following pete buttigieg. you're in las vegas today. it felt like he had a target on his back at thursday aes deba's stage. what about the tone he's trying to set today? >> reporter: he has three different events. there's no more weekends of rest. you said it about 44 days until the iowa caucus. nevada here, they're caucus, they're going to be the third state to get a crack at it in about mid-february. he'll be coming and speaking in about ten minutes here to local teamsters here in las vegas before going over to a seoul food restaurant for a conversation and meeting up with latino community members. i want to let you hear last night from mayor buttigieg. we asked him about the debate in which he was not only taking aim from elizabeth warren on his left, but aim from amy klobuchar who has tried could contend to voters that she say pragmatic

candidate much like her midwestern partner pete buttigieg. i asked him about that and this is what he told us last night? >> i think as the race gets more competitive, for better or worse we can expect more of that. the most important thing is continue driving our message about what america will need, why i can defeat donald trump, but the best president for the eras that got to come afterwards. i'll continue to defend our message, our campaign, and my record. >> you heard it at that debate, alex, and you're hearing it here in places like las vegas, as you have for the last ten months back when pete buttigieg first launched his bid. he's tried to carve out the middle ground in this campaign and tried to contrast himself with donald trump. but, yet, not in a way of high rhetoric, but one in a way in which he just released a campaign ad last week that's airing on tv in iowa in which he says that the united states needs a president who can focus on the issues that are important

to voters and i think that's why you continue to see him focus on campaign events even though we're just two months out from the nevada caucus, campaign events like this, speaking directly to union members as well as different -- different latino leaders across this state, alex. >> all right. thank you for that. and with me now, daniel strauss and with a welcome to you, daniel. i know that you've been covering mayor buttigieg. what did you make of his response to being a real target on that stage wednesday night? >> it's really a testament to how competitive buttigieg is in iowa and the fact that we're closing in on that caucus and that contest. for buttigieg, he needs to maintain that front-runner status because if he wins or places well in the state, he proves a level of viability that most can dates in this field want. but his competitors want to stop him doing that because winning in iowa and defeating someone like buttigieg is key to their

electoral strategy. >> so you're thinking being a target was a good thing and you think he handled himself well? >> partially. on the other hand there's still ongoing negative stories about buttigieg, about how he's had these closed-door fundraisers. this one in the wine cave. >> what is that wine cave thing? that thing's just gone viral. >> i would like to go to a wine cave. the real thing behind this, though, is that there are candidates who are trying -- both buttigieg and warren are trying to poke holes in their electoral arguments right now and prove that their claims about transparency don't really hold up to snuff. and right now they're questioned for buttigieg about his work at mckenzie, these closed-door fundraisers despite the fact he has opened up his fundraisers to press pools, meaning there's some reporter that's following buttigieg at these events. at the same time, though, today and yesterday there have been stories about how elizabeth warren prior to running for

president she held closed-door fundraisers as well. >> so at the debate, what stood out for you in terms of your overall takeaway? who stood out? >> i mean, look, joe biden had a pretty good night or at least better than some past performances. but also amy klobuchar, think this was her strongest debate performance yet. it really surprised the buttigieg team who was ready for elizabeth warren to go after him on these fundraisers but not klobuchar. it also is a testament to the fact that klobuchar needs a breakout moment. time is running out for her. she's been largely invisible throughout most of this primary or petering on the edges and she needs these breakout debate performances do well in iowa. a midwestern state she's argued she knows how to win. >> we just heard vaughn and ali, our road warriors on the trail and they say the candidates are playing up the issues and not trying to talk about impeachment. but the voters are bringing it up to some degree. do you get a sense of how much that is their focus? >> i mean, look, there's a

trepidation among these campaigns right now because these are really unchartered waters for democrats. they are not sure how impeachment is going to play as this moves forward and they want to see how this unfolds. at the same time, though, i think most voters really want know from these elected officials and these candidates what they think, whether this is a good idea. whether this will blow back and how this will affect the presidential election. >> okay. dani daniel strauss, good to see you. happy holidays. tipping point or not, whether republicans are finding their voice against the president next. s are finding their voice against the president next. if your gums bleed when you brush, you may have gingivitis. and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly... tooth loss. help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. leave bleeding gums behind.

parodontax. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in. quitting smoking is freaking hard.st, like quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big. so, try making it smaller. and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small...

...can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette

we're looking at someone who is going to defend the sanctity of human life, who would move the embassy to jerusalem, who would preserve religious liberty, who would put isis on the run, have a soaring economy. there's a lot of things there, but it doesn't have to be an either or. it can be a yes and. >> president and ceo of the family leader reacting to this "christianity today" op-ed calling for president trump's removal. and we have white house chief of staff and msnbc contributor. let's get into this one, andy. he does place a fair amount of significance on that op-ed, but do you buy his explanation for why some evangelicals stick with president trump? >> well, first of all, the article -- "christianity today" is not the magazine that it used

to be. and they're usually kind of apolitical or outside the political realm so i'm not sure that he's speak fing for any bi constituency here. i do think he's raising his conscience and our conscience as to what's going on. donald trump is not a very moral person, he's not my cup of tea. but by the same token i don't think that any of the debate in washington, d.c. around impeachment has risen to the level of removal. and i was very disappointed with the way the impeachment process went forward in the house. it was very partisan, it was more hyperbolic than it was really trying to find the truth and discuss the truth and the facts and what those facts were. so i don't think that the stage has been set for any credible debate over removal. and the trial on the senate, i hope, will happen soon. i don't understand the quid pro quo nature of what the speaker is trying to do. i have respect for the speaker, by don't think that this is the time to be playing a game of

i'll give you this document if you promise to do these particular things. so i'm troubled by the whole process. but this has turned into a kind of a reality tv show and see if anybody's going to be voted off the island. and i don't think the president's going to be voted off the island. >> look, andy, the actions which led to this president's impeachment are by no means his first, democrats argue, immoral infraction. what is the tipping point for some evangelicals, and when we were talking about bob, he talked about policy versus morality. do you find that that is sort of the gauge by which evangelicals are looking at this president? >> you know, it's a hard thing to discuss, but i do think that america has long had a history of not questioning or maybe kwebing tkwe questioning the morality of a leader but not asking for them

to be removed because they were immoral. jack kennedy was not the most moral president but you didn't find people saying he should be removed because of that. but in america we do separate the political definition of morality from the government definition of leadership. and president trump has been a strong leader. the economy is working well. unemployment is virtually nonexistent, it's a very high employment community right now. the trade deals have been struck with china, that's important. we've seen that he's got a budget passed. he's been a strong leader. i don't happen to agree with how he lives his life, but i cannot question his ability to lead. i don't always agree in the direction he's leading us, but he's getting things done. and we don't have a tradition in our country of removing leaders because they are immoral. if they commit crimes, that's a different case. but we haven't seen definitive definition of a crime that was violated that the president should be removed for.

>> but, and, look, andy, you're making good points but you have said he's not your cup of tea. let's add the voice of former -- >> not my cup of tea. >> for a lot of republicans, and that would include former arizona senator jeff flake. he wrote a similar op-ed in "the washington post." could this be an undercurrent? do you think centrist republicans are finding their voice in these writings? >> i do think -- look, i want our leaders to be picked in the democratic process. and removed in a democratic process. so i look forward to the elections. that's where we should exercise these responsibilities, not in the course of an impeachment that says it's a high crime and misdemeanor. that's a -- that's a very steep thing. no president has been removed through impeachment. presidents have been impeached but they haven't been removed. i don't think donald trump is going to be removed and i don't think what the house did in terms of their impeachment process justified any credible argument that he should be

removed. >> so then you're not surprised that senate republicans are digging in their heels ahead of what the trial would be there regardless ha regardless of what that looks like? >> if they're looking for new evidence to come out that shows that he is guilty of a crime, i think that means that the house did not do their job on impeachment. clearly the house did not come up with what they say were real facts. they say he just didn't do a good job. we don't like the way he did his job. that's a very different test. that's not the right test in a democracy. i celebrate our democracy. i don't want to take away the people's will that was shown in an election. and that's a very high bar and i don't think donald trump has been besmirched to the point that he has committed a crime that's reason for him to be removed from office. >> well, look -- >> i'm disappointed at the way the house did their job. i don't think they did a good job. they are too partisan, too quick, they practiced too much

hi hyperbole and they didn't allow the facts to come out. >> a lot of democrats would differ with you and what the facts did say. this is happened at a rally discussing debbie dingell who recently lost her husband former congressman john dingell. take a look, an. >> i take down the floogsags. why are you taking them down? for ex-congressman dingell. do this, do that. rotunda, everything. i gave him everything. that's okay. she calls me up, it's the nicest thing that's ever happened. thank you so much. john would be so thrilled. he's looking down. 'd be he'd be so thrilled. thank you so much, sir. i said that's okay, don't worry about it. maybe he's looking up, i don't know. [ laughter ] >> i mean, you're shaking your head. >> that was outrageous. that was outrageous. i worked very closely with

representative dingell, chairman dingell was a tremendous force in the u.s. house and i worked with him, i respected him. i did didnn't always agree with but we worked well together. and debbie ding rerl his wiell,t respect for her. the president should not have done what he did when he said that. it wasn't right, it wasn't accurate, it wasn't a good description of john dingell or debbie dingell and he should apologize. but, again, that's not an impeachable offense. we have lots of people saying things that they should apologize for today. let's go to the ballot box and cast our vote in private and see what happens. >> is there anything that donald trump can say, andy, that makes you think he's not fit to be president, that he should be removed? >> well, again, that's a political call. it's not an impeachment call. you don't just remove someone from office by an impeachment process. do it at the ballot box.

let's see what happens in november. i don't think the democratic field has been mature enough to give us definition of what they're going to look like next november. we haven't seen who's going to emerge. i think the democrats were dealt a very good hand this election cycle. they haven't played their hand well at all. donald trump has been playing his hand extremely well because the democrats are misplaying theirs. >> do you think republicans will vote to remove this president from the office in november? >> do i think republicans will vote against him? >> correct. >> i think there are some republicans that will. >> i think -- >> i know republicans that voted against him last time. do i think that the democrats are going to put up a candidate the republicans would want to vote for? i haven't found that candidate yet. and, remember, i prefer to vote for candidates rather than against them. >> okay, andy card, we always love talking to you. come again. happy holidays to you. re-election on the line, the four democratic senators whose

fate in 2020 could depend on their impeachment vote. in 202n their impeachment vote. ♪ spread a little love today ♪ spread a little love my-y way ♪ ♪ spread a little something to remember ♪ philadelphia cream cheese. made with fresh milk and real cream makes your recipes their holiday favourites. the holidays are made with philly. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy.

better hurry in. you may have gingivitis. when you brush, and the clock could be ticking towards bad breath, receding gums, and possibly... tooth loss. help turn back the clock on gingivitis with parodontax. leave bleeding gums behind. parodontax. today's senior living communities have never been better, with amazing amenities like movie theaters, exercise rooms and swimming pools, public cafes, bars and bistros even pet care services.

and there's never been an easier way to get great advice. a place for mom is a free service that pairs you with a local advisor to help you sort through your options and find a perfect place. a place for mom. you know your family we know senior living. together we'll make the right choice.

back to 2020. democrats are open the campaign trail today, one last chance to

talk to voters in 2019. this comes on the heels of the sixth democratic debate on thursday night which despite being the smallest candidate debate so far is full of fireworks on a variety of issues from impeachment to wine caves. joining me now, columnist for the daily beast. former spokesperson for hillary clinton. and republican strategist and board member of republican women for progress. welcome to all of you. felipe, who do you think had the best debate thursday? >> we go through this where we say amy klobuchar elevated herself and did well. it's true, but other than staying in the position she's in she doesn't move much? >> why? why didn't she move much? >> i don't know. she never has a problem meeting the criteria for the debates. there's a lot of options. two months from now we might be talking about the surprise of amy klobuchar. but overall i think the debates

are more like the nhl than the nba. it's possible for there to be a tie. i don't think anyone did much or -- you can see how frustrated they are to take votes from people, but that doesn't mean that they're landing punches. >> what do you think about that debate? who came out stronger? >> well, you know, i think it was really andrew yang made the case for him set of. of course i agree that amy klobuchar was someone that walked away with accolades. i feel like we're seeing a trend with her that we saw with elizabeth warren. people are taking her seriously. i've liked her all the while. i've liked her as senator. what i do like about amy klobuchar? she's practical and makes sense. she's middle of the road and not looney toon crazy. that's going to be more pally theable. but andrew yang is kind of funny. the only thing i don't like about andrew yang is that universe ail basic incomal basi

he just needs to come out to my home state and see how that works out and it's terrible. >> one of the most notable moments was between pete buttigieg and senator elizabeth warren. listen, everybody. >> the mayor just recently had a fundraiser that was held in a wine cave full of crystals and served $900 a bottle wine. billionaires in wine caves should not pick the next president of the united states. >> this is the problem with issuing purity tests you cannot yourself pass. [ cheers and applause ] >> if i pledge -- if i pledge never to be in the company of a progressive d progressive democratic donor, i couldn't be up here. senator, your net worth is one hundred times foomine. >> he went on to make the point

he was the only nonmillionaire on the stage. give me a sense of who got the better of that? >> i think buttigieg did and neither of them profited from it because voters don't like to see politicians squabbling on stage. but when he said, look, we can't fight with one hand tied behind our back, trump and the republicans are raising all this money because they don't have a primary fight. and we're spending it all on each other so we need as much money as we can get or, he didn't say this, we're going to be entirely dependent on mike bloomberg, which they will be anyway in the fall for a lot of the money that they need. but this was sort of the 400 proof populism, you know, it's appealing to some people, it doesn't have a really great track record in american politics. you know, people don't get elected by hating on anybody, rich or poor. and i don't think that elizabeth warren, who's a very strong candidate in many ways, i don't think she really did herself a lot of good with that.

>> serena, there's a new pole out from cnn that shows that the u.s. economy has earned its highest ranking in almost two decades. is the economy still trump's ace? >> absolutely. he continues to take credit for what are essentially obama-era policies that got to us where we are. we've talked about this many times here. people don't know the average american voter does not know that it's a policies of the last presidency. this has nothing to do with trump. a little adjustment here and there, the trump administration's comprised of liars. they want to go out and take credit for what is not theirs and they're going to continue to do it and it will help them with the base. but the base is shrinking. he needs to make the case to independents as to why he deserves a second term. and why this impeachment inquiry and now the impeachment itself is a total sham. i think he's sort of winning on that bit, again with the base and if the economy stays strong and there's no blowup until after election day next year, he's going to take it again. >> look, i want to ask this next

one -- >> that's a bit premature to say that. >> well. >> i know it is but it's true. >> a lot of people as we've talked to jonathan, a lot of people will vote their wallets when it comes right down to it as you're heading into a voting booth. i mean, it has happened before in the past. i realize this may be a bit of a different election after going through four years of donald trump. that said, let me ask you some politics here. i'm going to ask felipe and jonathan this because there's focus on the presidential race. but i want to talk about this senate race with you guys. there's an article in the cook political report and it talks about four senators whose fate could be determined by their vote on impeachment. i'm going to read part of this to you. it's kind of long so here it is. for alabama democrat doug jones a vote to acquit trump won't be received well in the state that gave him 62% of the vote in 2016. yet it would also put jones at odds with his party, especially activists and donors. for republican u.s. senators martha mcsally in arizona, cory gardner in colorado, susan collins in maine, a vote to

remove trump from office is likely to earn them very credible primary opposition, something that would hurt their re-election efforts but a vote to acquit trump doesn't help them appeal to the kind of college-educated suburban voters they need to win. how nervous are senators right now about how their vote will impact the election? i'll let you go first, jonathan, and felipe you can wrap it up. >> before they get to the vote on whether to remove him is the vote on whether this is going to be a real trial or a fake trial. that's the way this needs to get teed up right now. and i think mcsally and gardner and collins, they need to be asked, do you want a real trial in the senate or a fake trial? you can't have a real trial with no witnesses and no documents. that's fake. and the first -- that's the first thing they have to face. i think if they vote the wrong way on that, in other words if they vote with mcconnell and to say that there's going to be a fake trial, i think they'll really pay for it in the general election.

that's the political peril for them right now. they can get away with voting against removal from office, they could say there's an election coming, whatever. i don't think they can get away with voting for a fake trial. >> you know, felipe, i want you to answer the question as well and also if you heard andy card in the conversation that i had with him, you know, he suggested that the democrats have not put forward the facts to support enpeaching the enenpeaching this president. is that something that's a widely held belief within republican circles and is that, indeed, a fact? i don't think it is. democrats seem to think they put forward facts. >> it's funny you say that because your audio and producers can tell you i was watching and screaming into the mic? >> oh, really? >> because i couldn't believe, you know, andy card who i think we'd like to think is from a bigob

gone era when trump was out of his mind. but would you ever have allowed george bush to do anything like this? of course he wouldn't. >> george bush wouldn't have done anything like that. he's a decent guy. >> no. no. and also there's no way andy card voted for donald trump and there's no way andy card's going to vote for donald trump. but on your senate question, you know, to take what jonathan was taking a little further, it's not just those senators individual votes, it's the total process. for instance let's just say that mcconnell, he won't do this, but let's just say mcconnell says it came over here and i'm not taking a vote, i'm dismissing it, or whatever procedural game. without casting a vote, you've got collins, mcsally, gardner, they've got a problem there. and that's what mcconnell really has to balance is that people are going to judge the totality of this. if he runs a circus or a sham, people in november are going to say to mcsally and gardner, you're part of that. you didn't hold him accountable.

>> that is right. >> okay. all right, guys, i'm going to let you guys agree on that point. thank you. good to see you all. happy holidays. thank you so much. >> happy holidays. coming up next, trouble on the tracks. frightening moments when a train goes off the trails. and a bit later, the reason trump's legal team says he may not have been impeached? really? so what were we watching? n impe? really so what were we watching -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. cologuard: colon cancer and older at average risk. lemme guess, change in plans? i've heard a lot of excuses to avoid screening for colon cancer. i'm not worried. it doesn't run in my family. i can do it next year. no rush.

cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers. you just get the kit in the mail, go to the bathroom, collect your sample, then ship it to the lab. there's no excuse for waiting. get screened. ask your doctor if cologuard is right for you. covered by medicare and most major insurers. the ones that make a truebeen difference in people's lives. and mike's won them, which is important right this minute, because if he could beat america's biggest gun lobby,

helping pass background check laws and defeat nra backed politicians across this country, beat big coal, helping shut down hundreds of polluting plants and beat big tobacco, helping pass laws to save the next generation from addiction. all against big odds you can beat him. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. i'm mike bloomberg and i approve this message. does scrubbing grease feel like a workout? scrub less with dawn ultra. it's superior grease-cleaning formula gets to work faster. making easy work of tough messes. dawn takes care of tough grease, wherever it shows up. scrub less, save more... with dawn. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in. 1 in 5 people you meet wear yeah. that many! but right now, is not the time to talk about it. so when you're ready, search 'my denture care'.

poligrip and polident. fixed. fresh. and just between us. in america, the zip code you're born in can determine your future. the y helps fill the opportunity gap with education programs for all. for a better us, donate to your local y today. new this hour, a developing story. a freight train cross the

potomac river derailed early this morning sending two cars right there into the water. train safety officials say the bridge collapsed tipping that train over a popular foot bridge. the cars fortunately were empty and there nor injuries reported. the cause of that accident is under investigation. pretty dramatic pictures right there '. brilliant strategy or big blunder? the pros and cons of withholding the articles of impeachment from the senate. t from the senate.

do you have concerns about mild memory loss related to aging? prevagen is the number one pharmacist-recommended memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster

and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in. now to the latest on impeachment. my legal panel joining me now, two former federal prosecutors, also msnbc legal analyst. guys, welcome. i want to ask salve my andy card interview, about 15, 20 minutes ago. he seems to the camp believing go ahead president did not commit any impeachable offenses and by far from being the only one who believes that. you first, nelson. your response to that? >> i saw that interview. i thought, frankly -- well, let me put it this way. i'm surprised his nose didn't grow a little bit during the course of that interview. he said, he said this does not rise to the level of an

impeachable offense? sigh would ask limb, mr. card, you sieved george bush hadxliii. did he ever ask a foreign leader to investigate john kerkerry? and went on to say hardly ever use impeachment. it's for very, very limited things. i would ask, what do you think about bill clinton's impeachment for one instance of lying about a sexual indiscretion. i'm sure he's on the record saying he was all for that. >> what did you think, cynthia? >> i was glad he was willing to criticize the president for the terrible comments he made about congressman dingell and at least we got that truth out of him, but it is disappointing. the evidence is overwhelming and uncontroverted, frankly, because

the president is hiding much of the main evidence, but the evidence we do have is, there is no dispute that the president not only asked for the investigation of the rival but was willing to break the law in the impoundment act and hold the military assistance congress appropriated, a clear abuse of power. >> yes. >> so it was surprising to me. ordinarily i think and lately andy card level headed. on this, plain wrong. >> interesting. can i ask you, i teased i would ask my legal scholars, which you two are. when it comes to withholding articles of impeachment and not sending them to the senate. officials are saying this president hasn't actually been impeached yet. any truth to that, nelson? >> i don't see that. first, the constitution is clear. the house of representatives shall have the "sole power of

impeachment." that means they get to decide when the president is impeached. not a legal scholar, not somebody on the outside. i think it's a lot like an indictment of a criminal. you indict them. just because you haven't arrested him yet doesn't mean, and the trial doesn't begun, doesn't mean he hasn't been charged. you charge him. trial is separate. >> out of time. yes or no? has he been impeached regardless where we stand? >> i completely agree. >> that was fast. >> indictment, absolutely. another show coming up. i'll have you back on my show soon. happy holidays to you both. and cracking down on a pro-trump website. coming up, the international link to the factory of fake stories. y of fake stories. it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.

so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix. the most common side effect is nausea. creais back at red lobster.ast with new creations to choose from; like rich, butter-poached maine lobster and crispy crab-stuffed shrimp rangoon. how will you pick just 4 of 10? it won't be easy. better hurry in.

witt out of time. see you tomorrow at noon eastern. up next, kendis gibson take things away. you got it. >> enjoy the rest of your saturday. hi, everybody. i'm kendis gibson live at msnbc world headquarters in new york. lawmakers may have left for the holiday break but it hasn't died down in washington over president trump's impeachment. house speaker nancy pelosi and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell are stuck at an impasse where the process goes from here. president trump at mar-a-lago plotting his next steps hitting back at an