you know, just so he has to think about her and i have to -- i can remember her again. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. good morning. i'm phillip mena at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is 6:00 in the east, 3:00 out west. now here's what's happening. the white house a short time ago firing back after just-released emails shedding light on details in the ukraine story. hear what happened 90 minutes after president trump's controversial phone call. witnesses or no witnesses at the senate trial, a new prediction from the president's former communications director about how bad it could get for the president. a sobering survey about holiday shopping and the one thing that worries parents the most. plus --

>> -- about president trump, but what if i told you -- [ doorbell ] -- he's been backstage the whole time and he's heard everything you've said. come on out, mr. president. >> "saturday night live" having a little fun with the democrat presidential debate. but we start with president trump in florida for the holidays, speaking last night at a summit for young conservatives with impeachment still weighing heavily on his mind. >> they have nothing. there's no crime. there's no nothing. how do you impeach, you have no crime? even their people said there's no crime. crazy nancy. she's crazy. the battle on capitol hill intensifying and spilling into the holiday recess, leaving the next steps in the impeachment process unclear. the big question, who will blink first? >> ultimately, he's going to have to relent. i mean, i think the point is that he has to tell the american people how he intends to do this

job. so far, it doesn't seem like he's taking it very seriously. >> and new documents released this week gives us fresh insight on one of the key components to the democrats' case for impeachment. emails between the office of management and budget and the pentagon regarding the withheld military funds to ukraine less than two hours after that july 25th phone call between president trump and ukrainian president zelensky. and a new response this morning from the omb, saying the hold was announced a week earlier. let's go now to nbc's hans nichols, who is traveling with the president this holiday weekend in west palm beach, florida. hans, good morning. what more can you tell us about what is in these documents? >> reporter: well, these are emails. there's about 146 pages. these documents were derived from the center for public integrity. they used the freedom of information act request to get them. and you basically have the back door, the back trappings of the bureaucracy, and you see what

aides were saying to each other as they were having these meetings. now, just the timeline as we understand it -- july 18 -- this is according to congressional testimony -- there's an interagency meeting when there's a decision made to place the aid on hold. that came out in the testimony on the house side of this entire process. now, this email is july 25th. and as you mentioned, it's only 90 minutes after president donald trump spoke with president zelensky. and this is an email from michael duffey, an omb official, a political appointee at the white house, and his job is to sort of oversee all of the aid, at least in the national security space. and what he was saying was directing both omb and the department of defense to put a hold on that aid until something was resolved. he doesn't really clarify. it's really the timing that's drawing attention of people. then he asked people to say, let's not share this too widely, given the sensitive nature of the request. i appreciate your keeping that

information closely held to those who need to know. so, it gives you a sense of what's happening inside the white house. there's a paper trail. aside from the timing aspect of it, i'm not so certain it really vastly expands our understanding on what happened because we know the president held the aid, we know that he was having these phone calls, and we know some of his own aides have said there was a quid pro quo, namely gordon sondland. so, it's an interesting development, but i think it needs to be taken in the context of all of the information we've learned over the last two months. phillip? >> meantime, president trump yesterday slammed democrats and the impeachment vote during a rally he held in florida. what did he say? >> reporter: yeah. well, this is a greatest hits from the president. in some ways, he only really went after nancy pelosi at one brief moment on the impeachment front, and let's have a listen to that part. >> crazy nancy. she's crazy.

no, no. so, now she says, you know, she has no case. she has no case. so let's not submit it. that's good, right? that's good. but you know what, so unfair. it's so unfair. she has no case. did they look bad? they got up the same thirnsing, constitution. they are violating the constitution. >> reporter: so, phillip, that to me seems to be the president celebrating this idea that there's a delay and that nancy pelosi hasn't decided, or hasn't gotten the assurances that she says she needs from the senate to transmit the articles of impeachment to the senate. so, otherwise, the president did make a comment about tulsi gabbard. she voted present on the impeachment resolution. he went out of his way to thank her. remember, she's a 2020 contender as well. went out of his way to thank her and then had a couple attacks on joe biden and elizabeth warren. but really, this was the president firing up his base. he spoke for almost 80 minutes,

and he even felt threatened to come back tomorrow. phillip? >> i guess that's the type of spin that we expected from the president. all right, hans nichols traveling with the president this morning. hans, thank you so much. joining me now, dave levinthal, editor at large at the center for public integrity, and sonam scheff with business insider. dave, you fought for and asked for the release of the emails. it talks about the aid and the president asking for the aid in june and michael duffey reiterated the official holding of the aid in july. what more can you tell us about that? because the omb, as you heard, said that the funding hold was placed on july 18th. >> correct, and some of the emails that we had indicated really the dialogue that was going on back and forth between key officials within the office of management and budget, the department of defense as well. and president trump earlier this year declared himself the most trance parent president in the

history of the united states, but what we found all along is that his administration, he's been very, very reluctant or unwilling to release information that would shed additional light on exactly what was going on, particularly these deliberations about the ukraine aid. we had to go to court after filing a freedom of information act to basically pry these documents away from the federal government when we got them last week and again on friday night -- two different sets of documents. ultimately, many of them were redacted, so we don't have a full view of even what these documents said, but what we can see is that there's some pretty interesting conversations that were going on about the appropriateness and even the legality of the ukraine aid being withheld in the time frame that we're discussing. >> dave, as you mentioned, the material is heavily redacted, but are there any other story lines you've been able to desire? >> yeah, so even in september there were questions to one omb -- in one omb official's mind as to why this was still

even happening, why there was withholding of aid, that she didn't have enough information to even know for herself why this was taking place, so we're not going to have a full story until we have unrededucted versions of these documents, which i should note we're back in court fighting the center for public integrity to get exactly that, the unredacted documents. >> do you think these add to the narrative of what exactly happened here? does it fill in the blanks? >> i think it's just further confirmation of a lot of the facts we've gotten from the impeachment inquiry and testimony from a lot of career documents. one of the first things that came to mind to me, especially when reading the july 25th email from michael duffey, basically saying that we want to hold off on this funding was, of course, the fact that it came an hour and a half after this phone call that the president had with ukraine's president in which, if you recall from the transcript, zelensky indicated that he would be willing to pursue the investigations that president trump wanted. now, the fact that this budget

official said even after that that they wanted to withhold the aid is further indication of the fact that it wasn't enough for trump to just get that private commitment from zelensky but that, as bill taylor testified, he wanted zelensky to be in a, quote, public box. he wanted a public commitment, which, of course, is part of the reason why this aid was withheld until september 11th, when the public find out about it. >> sonam, i wanted to get more into that email that we were discussing here. michael duffey added this line here to the july 25th email -- "given the sensitive nature of the request, i appreciate your keeping that information closely held to those who need to know." how do you interpret that? >> well, again, i think it speaks to the fact that this was very unusual. this went against every aspect of u.s. foreign policy and u.s. national security. and we saw a senior administration official tell "the new york times," i believe earlier this weekend, that the email -- that the way the email was being portrayed was

inaccurate and that this hold had been announced before and it was all part of an interagency process. well, if that was the case, then why did michael duffey send another email on september 11th saying "i'm glad this issue is behind us"? when i read that, that indicated to me that he was aware at the time of how unusual all this was. >> david, congress didn't raise this, but your organization's reporting did suggest that the mere withholding of the aid may have been illegal. how so? >> yeah, well, there's something, an act, a 45-year-old law that's on the books that basically says, all right, if congress goes ahead and appropriates money, the executive branch, once it signs that law in whatever form it is, has to go ahead and spend that money. so, if you're withholding money that congress has said needs to be spent or is appropriated for a certain purpose and then the executive branch isn't doing it, well, that's a big problem, potentially, and it really kind of strikes at the heart of what we're talking about in the context of impeachment, that, of course, the president of the united states was trying to get

political favors done in the opinion of, of course, many democrats, but also, too, that there may have been other things going on, too, where the president was acting outside the boundaries of his power, not acting in a particular way that was in, again, the minds of some democrats the legal way to go about doing things. >> dave, this email here, too, from september 1st, the day vice president pence met with ukraine's president in warsaw, after ukrainians learned that the aid had been frozen, and on september 12th, michael duffey wrote this -- "glad to have this behind us, after the aid was released." so, what does all this tell you about the information that we still do not have on this case? >> well, it shows us that we don't have full accounting of exactly what happened when and what all the internal deliberations were actually entailing. what we do know from all of this is that there were many, many internal deliberations that were happening within donald trump's own administration as to whether

donald trump was doing something that was appropriate and was legal. so, although donald trump likes to say, hey, this was a perfect call that i had with president zelensky, that there's no issue here, well, not everyone in his own administration was necessarily feeling that way in the heat of the moment and in the midst of what was ultimately a weeks-long discussion about this very topic. >> sonam, do you think this makes a case for the senate to call fact witnesses from inside the white house, including michael duffey? >> i think that has been the case for weeks now and that these emails certainly add to that, but i don't think it's going to change the calculus for the senate, which, of course, is republican-controlled. every indication that we've gotten from the key republican senators involved in this, who would be involved in this inquiry, is that they want to get it done as quickly as possible. we've even had indications from people like senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and senator lindsey graham that they do not intend to be impartial jurors as their oath would indicate, but they completely view this as a partisan process,

and their primary goal here is to have it end as soon as possible, to kind of boost the president's re-election campaign so that this cloud isn't hanging over him. >> all right, sonam, hang tight. we will see you later this hour. dave thevlevinthal, thank you s much. >> thank you. how bad could it get if witnesses are called at the senate impeachment trial? new insight from the president's former communications director, next. resident's former communications director, next

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new today, sources telling politico president trump has a desire to, quote, create a flashy, testimony-filled trial, despite his party's opposition, but congressman adam schiff along with a former trump staff member predict that witnesses' testimonies will be incriminating, if allowed. take a listen. >> it may very well be the president doesn't really want witnesses, the president knows that what mick mulvaney will have to say, what john bolton would have to say, what others would have to say would be incriminating of him. >> whether it's mulvaney, bolton, giuliani, pompeo, if he has to testify under oath, he has to leave. he'll have to leave before that testimony is brought -- >> you think he's going to resign? >> there is no way he can handle the heat of that testimony. >> wow. >> joining me now, trial lawyer and msnbc legal contributor katie phang, and former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner.

thank you both for joining me this morning. katie, i want to start with you. you just heard scaramucci say that the president wouldn't be able to handle the heat of those testimonies. do you agree with that? and how damaging would those testimonies be? >> i think i'm going to start with the last part of your question, phillip, which is how damaging would it be. obviously, it would be so critical and it would just be the hugest bomb to be dropped on the trump defense. and the reason why we know that is why haven't we heard from these witnesses already? if donald trump believed that these witnesses could completely exonerate and xul patriot him, then we would have heard from those witnesses during the course of the impeachment hearings. we know there is a reason why senate leader mitch mcconnell does not want to have these witnesses testify. we also know that mcconnell in response to senator chuck schumer's request to have specific witnesses called during the senate impeachment trial stated, i am not going to bolster the democrats' case against donald trump. so, phillip, if that is not some

evidence of consciousness of guilt to want to hide the truth from the american public, then you know what, i need to quit my job and find something else to do. >> glenn, how do democrats get these testimonies? is it a negotiation? i want you to listen to what adam schiff had to say on friday. he said he's not going to testify. let's hear that. >> if you are called to testify, will you? >> there is no basis to call me as a witness, and i think even mcconnell and republicans have recognized that. the only reason to even put me on a list is because donald trump thinks it's a good rhetorical attack. the reason they would like to call me as a witness is just to have a chance to attack me, nothing more. >> glenn, is there a way for democrats to get these testimonies without having the whistle-blower or adam schiff testify? >> you know, they're not going to call congressmen, they're not going to call senators. that is really just a tactical ploy, as representative schiff was saying.

with respect to the other witnesses, the boltons, the mulvaneys, the pompeos, it will take 51 senators to vote in favor of calling those witnesses. i think there is a chance that 51 senators will have an interest in not having this process be completely illegitimate, so we may see them vote in favor of calling, for example, a john bolton. and bolton could be an extraordinarily damaging witness. i agree with katie. because think about it, he's the one who saw in real-time what was going on with mulvaney, sondland, and the others. he characterized it as illegal conduct by labelling it a drug deal. you don't call something a drug deal if it's lawful, if it's benign, if it's innocent. so, if they were to put a pompeo on the stand, i think what would be exposed was that mulvaney, sondland, and others were kind of the cooks in this so-called drug deal.

they're cooking up the political por powder into political crack, but they're the ones with their feet on the ground dealing with the ingredients of the drug deal. it would be the kingpin that i think everybody's after, the kingpin of this particular drug deal is donald trump. so, if we see 51 senators vote in favor of calling the boltons of the world, boy, i don't know that i agree with scaramucci that trump resigns, but i agree it could be a game-changer with respect to the senate trial. >> there's no doubt that it would be, but glenn, if the democrats are able to get someone like bolton and get those 51 votes, don't you think the republicans would be able to then get someone like adam schiff to testify as well? >> no. i think it's an absolute dog and pony show that people are calling for a congressman who was a member of a committee that was involved in a legitimate oversight investigation or impeachment inquiry, because then, do they turn the tables and put lindsey graham on the stand and ask him why he can't seem to hold a consistent

position from one day to the next? i think that's a slippery slope. when you start to take the members of congress who are obliged to conduct these kind of hearings and start to threaten to call them as witnesses, i don't see that happening. >> katie, in this world, they're somehow, let's say, able to make a deal. who would you want to hear from the most in this trial coming up? >> well, i think that john bolton definitely would be the guy, but we know that in the last segment you just covered, phillip, there are emails that came out of omb with a man by the name of mike duffy who is the person who issued the emails, that instructed the actual hold to continue in terms of not giving the aid to ukraine. i think that the longer that this plays out, because there's a lot of criticism out there in terms of whether or not it's the right decision by nancy pelosi to hold off transmitting the articles of impeachment to senate because we're waiting to see whether or not there's going to be a legitimate trial,

ultimately, of donald trump, i think that actually makes a little bit of sense, frankly because you keep on seeing the drip, drip, drip of more damaging and incriminating evidence coming out. it is key to note that this information was a data dump, a document dump, late friday night, right before christmas, but it was a result of a court order. and so, i think that you're going to see stuff like this, which is damning evidence, which all of us can read and all of us, especially in the senate, can read, and we know that it's stuff that's going to show that donald trump is, in fact, guilty of the articles of impeachment, and he should be convicted and removed from office. >> katie phang and glenn kirschner, thank you so much for waking up early with us on this sunday morning. new satellite photos from inside north korea this morning are raising more concerns about what kim jong-un is up to and about that so-called christmas gift he has for the u.s. that's next. e has for the u.s. that's next. on "saturday night live," a spoof of last week's presidential debate in which president trump takes the stage,

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now to the morning headlines. breaking overnight, 13 people

were shot at a possible house party in the south side of chicago, according to police. the age and condition of the victims being treated at an area hospital is unknown. this latest shooting adds to a weekend of shootings that have killed at least four people. police are investigating and a news conference is expected later this morning. also new this morning, we're hearing for the first time from the teenager who was run over for being mexican, according to police. 14-year-old natalia miranda was walking to a basketball game at her high school when she was hit earlier this month. >> i don't remember the impact. i just remember the car coming towards me. >> nicole marie poole franklin was chargeth with attempted murder after telling police she drove over the teenager because she was mexican. nathalia, whose parents are ecuadorian and mexican, spent two days in the hospital and is expected to make a full recovery poole-franklin could face hate crime charges. new south wales, australia,

is in a state of emergency this morning as around 2,000 firefighters battle wildfires. winds and extreme conditions are making it nearly impossible to manage the extreme situation. one of the most popular destinations in italy is once again dealing with heavy flooding this morning. water levels rose in venice saturday and is estimated to peak at 51 inches just weeks after the italian city suffered its worst flooding in more than 50 years. the damage from last month's floods is estimated to be more than $1 billion. in sonoma county, california, a sheriff's deputy is off the job after a deadly encounter with a disabled man during a traffic stop. the incident was caught on body cam video, and nbc's sarah harman warns that this video is disturbing. >> 11000 block of sutton. >> reporter: it began with the report of a stolen car. deputies in pursuit of a vehicle reported missing in a carjacking.

>> show me your [ muted ] hands! turn off the [ muted ] car! >> reporter: what they didn't know, the drive, 52-year-old david glen ward, was the car's owner. >> get your hands up! >> reporter: in a video of the stunning confrontation released by the sonoma county sheriff's department, deputy charles blough can be seen approaching the vehicle. >> get out of the car! >> all right, i'm getting out. i'm getting out. >> reporter: the driver, who was physically disabled, struggled to exit the car. law enforcement dragging him through the window. >> ah! then tasing him. police say deputy blough attempted a carotid hold, a controversial move designed to cut off blood to the brain. ward became unresponsive. >> we need medical, ma'am. get medical. >> reporter: as it became clear ward was the victim, not the carjacker. he was transported to a local hospital and pronounced dead.

sheriff mark essex says he plans to fire deputy blough, a 19-year veteran of the force. a lawyer for blough defending his actions, telling nbc in a statement -- "deputy blount didn't cause david ward's death. frankly, mr. ward caused his own death by inexplicably taking a number of bizarre actions." alleging he had "a serious pre-existing condition and methamphetamine in his system and there were no indications of trauma to his neck." aftershocking footage leaves a community demanding answers. an investigation is currently under way. officer blount is on administrative leave at the moment. his attorney tells nbc news he has not been fired, and if and when that happens, he plans to appeal the decision. phillip? >> nbc's sarah harman. thank you. new alarm out of north korea. official satellite photos appear to show kim jong-un is not willing to denuclearize before diplomatic talks with the united states. joining me now is nbc's molly

hunter out of london. molly, what's the latest? >> reporter: hey, phillip, good morning. that's right, these pictures show essentially an expansion on a factory, and analysts say this expansion, this temporary building, is used to accommodate a launcher arm and in the past they've seen this kind of building erected ahead of a test. but analysts say there is more activity at other locations, more systems, more buildings, more capabilities, and all of this leads u.s. military and intelligence officials to believe that we may actually be seeing a test in the next few days. let's take a listen to what u.s. defense secretary mark esper had to say. >> clearly, we think that the political solution is the best way forward to denuclearize the peninsula and to address north korea's programs. i have two functions here, as i've said before. one is to ensure that we are in a high state of readiness, prepared for to fight and win tonight, if need be, and i'm confident in that. and secondly, to enable our diplomats. so, i remain hopeful that we

could, again, get the process started again and remain on if the diplomatic path. >> reporter: phillip, as you heard, they remain hopeful, but that diplomatic path has not restarted. kim jong-un's regime has warned of, quote, a christmas gift. u.s. officials believe that gift may be in the form of a long-range ballistic missile test. there hasn't been a test since 2017, and certainly, phillip, if there is a test now, that would signal the final breakdown of these diplomatic talks. and as we know, that is, of course, what president trump has held as his signature foreign policy move in the last couple of years. so, we wait and see, as always, phillip. >> all right. that's nbc's molly hunter joining us from london. molly, thank you. a new survey shows 59% of parents admit they overspend on their children every holiday season. up next, how that's taking an alarming toll on those parents and not just on their wallets, either. on "saturday night live," a spoof of last week's presidential debate in which president trump takes the stage,

as does the speaker of the house. >> listen up, bucco, i challenge you to a push-up contest. i'm talking me, you, shirts off, nips out. first guy to do one wins. what do you say? >> go ahead. i'm not afraid of anything. >> oh, are you sure you're not afraid? >> oh, my god, nancy pelosi. i thought it was crampus. hey, did you read the letter i sent you? >> oh, the one that was six pages single spaced like a serial killer? no, i didn't read it. i'm sorry. but i brought you two gifts, mr. president. they're the articles of impeachment. >> oh. oh, great. give it to mitch in the senate and everything's gravy, baby. >> okay, but here's the thing. you know how sometimes you get a gift and you like it so much, you want to just keep it as a gift for yourself? >> you can't do that. >> mm, watch me. good luck at the state of the union. for people 50 and older at average risk. i've heard a lot of excuses to avoid screening for colon cancer.

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in what's being called the busiest holiday travel season ever, weather is becoming a disruptive force. while it is calm in new york city, several storms are moving across the country. nbc's morgan chesky is tracking the travel troubles for us again this morning. morgan? >> yeah, phillip, with just a few days to go until christmas, the holiday travel rush is finally upon us. and with wild weather breaking out nationwide, getting from point "a" to point "b" could be even tougher. it's the holiday travel mess with wild weather nationwide

that has taken a deadly turn. on the west coast, record rainfall causing multiple mudslides. some areas seeing a foot of rain in 48 hours. the slick roads blamed for this deadly accident in washington, killing a sheriff's deputy on the way to a call when his cruiser hydroplaned. >> he left the roadway to water, we believe. >> reporter: the storms causing flood warnings and wind advisories down california. and heavy rains are expected through monday in the northeast, potentially impacting travel at busy hubs like charlotte and atlanta. >> i've heard it's been pretty bad, but i'm just winging it. >> i just packed like an hour ago, so. >> reporter: atlanta at world's busiest airport, the holiday travel tradition just starting to take hold. >> all the waiting. waiting at the gate, waiting to get through security. that's usually the worst. but i come prepared. >> reporter: from now until new year's, more than 115 million travelers are expected to fly or hit the road. that's nearly a 20-year high and

a 4% boost over last year. do you feel like all the craziness is worth it? >> well, yeah, because you're spending the holidays with your family. >> reporter: as for the big day itself, all signs show a white christmas may be wishful thinking with even more rain on the way. travel is only expected to rise in the next few days at the airports, but the good news for drivers who will be hitting the roads is that aaa says gas prices only expected to drop in the next few weeks. phillip? >> all right, morgan, thank you. an estimated 148 million people are heading to the mall this weekend to finish up that last-minute shopping, and a lot of those purchases will end up being put on a credit card. a survey by the credit company self found that 71% of parents say they lose sleep over the money they've spent on gifts for their children during the holidays. joining me now to discuss this is yahoo! finance reporter sibile marcellus. sibile, good morning. >> good morning, phillip.

>> so, the average holiday purchaser in 2018 went $1,200 in the red. what causes this during the holidays, especially when shopping for kids? >> right. so, christmas is coming, kids are super excited. they're overjoyed. and parents are extremely stressed. so, that survey shows that 71% of parents are losing sleep just thinking about how much they're actually spending on the holiday season, trying to get every single item on their kids' wish list. now, when you look at the average. shopper, they're spending over $500 because of this, because they're trying to satisfy their kids' needs, and that means they're going to spend the next four months after the holidays trying to pay off that debt. so, parents have a lot of struggles when it comes to trying to make sure that their kids are as happy as possible. some are even willing to ruin their credit because of this, and that's, of course, alarming because ruining your credit can affect your chances of being able to buy a home, being able to refinance. but one of the major drivers why

the parents are willing to do this is because, believe it or not, because of peer pressure, and not peer pressure among parents, peer pressure among kids. so, there are many parents who just can't bear the thought that their kid will be the only one at school who doesn't have the latest gadget or accessory when they're talking to their friends. >> this is the culture we have created here in america. >> yes. >> almost half the people surveyed thought they were keeping their spending under control, only to be surprised when they finally checked their bank statements. do you think this is a simple problem of just people losing track of what they spend? >> yeah, no, it's not that simple. i mean, when it comes to the holiday season, it's the super bowl, it's the olympics for retailers, and they've got plenty of tricks up their sleeves. so don't feel too bad if you fall for it when you're in stores, from the placement of the different items, the lighting, to the for sale signs and the christmas music, to push you to spend more than you actually intended to. and online, of course, when you're shopping, there are all these flashing signals for sale -- one item left, you've got to buy it right now.

so, all that is driving shoppers to spend a lot more than they wanted it top retailers, of course, they want to get as much of a revenue and profit during this quarter because they want to make up for all of the other times during the year that you weren't shopping. >> so, if you're one of the many people who have already overspent this holiday season, what are some strategies to help them pay down debt a little bit quicker? >> yeah, so for parents who haven't done this already, it's too late, but you can apply this next year. so, what some parents have done is that they start shopping for christmas and the holiday season earlier in the year. so like in march or in july, and they take their time. so they spend on those items over a couple of different months and don't wait for like a big, bulk purchase during the month of december. other things that parents do is get a side hustle or get a second job or pick up more shifts at work. others take more extreme measures where they're willing to cut back on heat and electricity, and this is all about making kids happy and being able to afford that long wish list. >> that is -- just to hear that out loud that people are giving

up on the essentials, you know, just so a kid can have a brand name, just incredible here. cnbc's survey found that two-thirds of shoppers, they were concerned that the economy would weaken next year. do you think that we'll see an impact of these fears when it comes to how much people are spending? >> yes, absolutely, because when it comes to overspending during the holiday season, that means starting out a new year in the hole, with tons of financial headaches. so, yes, it is concerning that people are overspending and not realizing how much they're spending. so, what often happens, that they don't get sticker price when they're shopping, but then when they get their bank statement, they go, wow! i really spent that much during the holiday season and then have to pay it off over the next couple months. now, when it comes to recession fears, many economists do believe that we could be hitting a recession later on in 2020, so you don't want to be carrying a lot of debt if we're dealing with ri cession because you want to be saving as much as possible as a safety cushion. we know that when recessions happen, it's bad news, there are tons of layoffs, so you want to make sure that you have as much

of a financial cushion as possible but still try to keep your his happy. >> you could, but mom, how come you couldn't help me pay for college? remember those jordans that you outgrew five years ago? that's why. sibile marcellus, thank you so much. >> thanks, phillip. what a difference one debate can make for key 2020 candidates, but will it have any lasting impact? that's next. , but will it have y lastinimg pact that's next. if you live with diabetes, why fingerstick when you can scan? with the freestyle libre 14 day system just scan the sensor with your reader,

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as we reported earlier, we're following breaking news out of chicago, where 13 people have been shot at a possible house party in a south side of chicago neighborhood, this according to police. the age and conditions of the victims being treated at an area hospital is unknown at this hour. this latest shooting adds to a weekend of shootings that have killed at least four people. police are investigating and a news conference is expected later this morning. turning now to the race for 2020. democrats are out in full force this weekend, getting in their last campaign stops of 2019. this comes on the heels of a heated debate on thursday. joining me now to discuss, democratic strategist derek plummer and sonam sheth,

business insider, political correspondent as well. i want to start with this, you two. according to a 538 ipsos poll of democratic voters before and after thursday's debate, minnesota senator amy klobuchar saw the biggest boost while south bend indiana mayor pete buttigieg took a hit to his reputation as a star debater. how significant was thursday's debate for klobuchar's campaign? >> i mean, in my opinion it was very significant, especially because this was the latest in actually a string of the last two or three debates in which klobuchar has steadily seemed to gain her footing, display more confidence and also to -- she's been more willing to go on the attack against as you mentioned south bend mayor pete buttigieg but there were other points during the debate where she was willing to step out and be like, hey, let's move away from this infighting as she did when senator elizabeth warren and mayor buttigieg were going at each other on stage and so she was able to portray herself as being above the fray, while also

making arguments about kind of touting her experience and the fact that she of course is from the midwest and has that kind of appeal to independent voters who may not be inclined to most for more progressive democrats. >> do you think thursday's debate will have any substantial impact on the state of the race? >> what i would say is that generally when we see polling coming out of these debates there are being to be bumps, but i think what's really -- what we're really going to know in terms of who won or lost is when we get to these caucuses and votes in the next month or two. additionally what i would say, though, is that what we saw in senator klobuchar was her confidence coming out, her personality shining. additionally, i think we have to recognize that mayor pete who is a front runner in iowa, got a lot of arrows and he was able to at times respond effectively, but at times i wasn't. and i think klobuchar's attacks,

if you will, as well as senator warren's they really did sting and i think that's what we're seeing in the polling. >> speaking of those shots being taken at mayor pete, "politico" has a new article out calling buttigieg a linchpin and talk being why he has become a new target amongst his fellow 2020 democrats. buttigieg's transformation into a pin nat at that did not come simply because he has risen in the polls in iowa and new hampshire, the impressive to snap him out is wide ranging. joe biden occupies the party's moderate lane and bernie sanders and elizabeth warren appeal to progressives but buttigieg is threat in i think to all of them with his idealogically moderate platform but progressive profile, young, gay and as he will remind you repeatedly not of washington. sodam, what do you make of that? >> i think he is a thorn in the side for all the other democrats because he kind of does check off all the boxes for the

typical democratic voter. he is a millennial, as you mentioned, he has endorsed some more progressive policy proposals while also airing to the more moderate side on issues like medicare for all which has kind of caused some division between democrats. he is also a veteran, he is a roads sk rhodes scholar, he represents an area in the midwest which would be more appealing to democrats and independent voters who would be less likely as i mentioned before to err on the more progressive side of the real. >> at a rally nor bernie sanders congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez used a play on words to bring up pete buttigieg's wine cave fundraiser but she didn't use his name. let's listen to that. >> it's not dangerous because it will lose an election. let me make that crystal clear. let's make it crystal clear. not wine cave crystal. let's make it crystal clear.

>> all right. derek, is this whole wine cave story going to have any impact with voters? do you think it will resonate? >> so what i would say is that -- and to his credit mayor pete's response to the fact that the democratic party is not only a diverse party, but that their interests, whether you are wealthy or not, are aligned and really trying to get president trump to not be able to be reelected and for his own election. what i would say, though, related to what the congresswoman said is that i think that it is going to resonate. i don't know if that's going to resonate long-term, but, again, i think the attacks that we saw and his inability to really, i think, pivot away from that is going to be an achilles' heel for him. i would also say, though, that, you know, even though he's up in iowa and i believe he's in second place according to real clear politics in new hampshire, this election and race is very,

very close and being up right now does not necessarily mean that you will be able to win the day. but there is a vulnerability there that he's going to have to be mindful of and all democrats will have to be mindful of. >> let's talk to the issue of impeachment. joe biden yesterday in iowa talked about that. let's listen. >> there's nothing to celebrate about impeachment. it's a sad moment for the country and there's -- don't get me wrong, it's not that i think it's unfair that donald trump has been impeached and has to face the charges that have been made, but the idea that it's worth celebrating i find -- i find counterproductive because there is nothing to celebrate. >> derek, do you think biden has been approaching impeachment in the right way? do you think he should be doing more or saying more? >> i do. i mean, here is the thing, and i think whether you are talking about speaker pelosi or vice president biden, across the board i think what you've seen

from democrats is recognizing the seriousness of impeachment, the somberness of this moment, and i do think that given that on one side with president trump and the gop they've been trying to distract american voters with conspiracy theories that are unfounded and attacks against president biden. so he is in this really interesting place where, you know, he has to be the grown up in the room. i think we saw him be the grown up in the room in the debates, i think even in his comments yesterday the recognition that this is a very difficult time for our country. you know, as your viewers may know, the majority of americans support impeachment and support his removal, but this is a very, very difficult time for the country and i think president -- excuse me hopefully -- vice president biden is really approaching it the proper way. >> a freudian slip, derek. derek and sodam, thank you for

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